- 2 years ago
'The Boys’ Showrunner and Executive Producer Eric Kripke breaks down the on-set antics, writing to the actors’ strengths, not wanting to "make edgelord material for incels" and expanding the 'Boys' universe in this exclusive interview.
Variety Showrunners Sitdown presented by FX.
Variety Showrunners Sitdown presented by FX.
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00:00I'm really protective of my actors, you know, like they're all really good people.
00:05I was pissed that they were coming after one of my actors.
00:08The trolls really can eat a bag of dicks and fuck off to the sun.
00:11I reiterate that comment.
00:24Eric Kripke, thank you so much for being here.
00:27Yeah, it's good seeing you, Kate.
00:29Going into season four of The Boys...
00:32Show me a little wrath.
00:34Run!
00:40What did you see as the season's overall themes and where did you want the story to go?
00:45One big theme was this election.
00:48It's kind of where the season storyline was heading based on season three.
00:54We have like this hidden homicidal superhero heartbeat from the White House.
00:59That's right.
01:00As you do.
01:01By the way, had there not been the dual strikes, would this season have come earlier?
01:05Just a couple months.
01:06Okay.
01:07You know, we thought maybe we would land maybe like end of 23, top of 24.
01:13So we always knew it was going to be around the election.
01:16Butcher and Homelander have always existed in parallel.
01:20Where do we find them in season four?
01:22They're both dealing with their mortality.
01:25Butcher, that's continuing a storyline.
01:27He has six months to live.
01:29And so we got really interested in like, okay, what does he want to do with the time he has left?
01:34And then we always like paralleling the arcs and having them be two sides of the same coin.
01:39So we gave Homelander a gray pubic hair, which is like the worst thing you could do to that guy.
01:47I think he's just so indignant by the fact that he ages, not unlike probably a lot of Hollywood stars.
01:53Are there any instances where you have changed the characters as you've seen what the actors can do?
02:02I'm thinking specifically of Anthony's star, just because he can go from terrifying to funny so quickly.
02:10The short answer is all of them.
02:12One of the things I love most about television is your ability to evolve and adjust as dailies come in.
02:21And you can like tailor the role.
02:24Like once you see what the actor is comfortable with and what they excel at and where some of their blind spots are,
02:31you can really start playing to their strengths.
02:34In Homelander's example, Ant's ability to give like 16 facial expressions when another person gives one is just so astounding.
02:45Like, give that guy an Emmy already?
02:47Like, I don't understand why it hasn't happened yet.
02:51I wanted to ask about the evolution of A-Train.
02:54We gave him a bit of a redemption arc this season for a couple reasons.
02:58One is we were sort of set up for it last season because his storyline last season was he was pretending to give a shit so much
03:07that he actually accidentally started to give a shit.
03:11But also like one of the big themes of the season is forgiveness.
03:16And we wanted to bring Huey to a point like definitely the healthy humanistic path would be for him to let go of his rage and forgive the person.
03:33Not for them, but for him.
03:35You know, and that's something Butcher is completely unable to do.
03:40How did the set change with Butcher not in charge of the boys and Carl Urban having more scenes, you know, with other people or by himself?
03:53Like, was that different?
03:54Yeah, it actually was.
03:55I think it was, I mean, I think it was challenging for all of them because there's a million ways that I'm lucky in this show.
04:04One of them is that the cast genuinely loves each other and not even like genuinely, but it's bullshit, like genuinely loves each other and they stay on set.
04:14It's wild.
04:15You know, they go right up.
04:16They don't go back to their trailers because they like hanging out on set and they all play backgammon and they all have these like special chairs,
04:23each one of them made that's like specific to their character.
04:26And it's just I've never seen anything like it.
04:28But this season, Carl had reasonably few scenes with that group.
04:33I think he felt like a little FOMO because like the group was all together and he was kind of out in the cold, which, you know, does mirror what was going on with his character.
04:42Right.
04:43Can you talk about casting Cameron Cravetti in what was once a very small role?
04:48He's my dad.
04:49Right, he murdered some poor sod right in front of your eyes.
04:52That guy was a pedophile.
04:53It ain't true.
04:54He's lying to you.
04:55I assume it's a crapshoot when you cast a child actor.
04:58Yeah, I mean, casting kids is obviously super, super hard.
05:02And Cameron was just so good.
05:06He just kept crushing it over and could break your heart that, you know, we all looked at each other like we'd be crazy not to write more for him.
05:15What was always sort of meant to be a supporting character, like evolved into really being like one of the main characters.
05:23But we certainly wouldn't have leaned into it if Cameron wasn't as good as he was.
05:28And you introduced the character of Kessler.
05:31Can you talk about how you changed that role for the show?
05:34I mean, the truth is he's really, Jeffrey Dean is probably only Kessler in name only.
05:40Like in the comic, he's this like simpering, weak person for Butcher to basically just beat up on.
05:47The character we had talked about was every person in Butcher's life seems to try to hold him back.
05:56Everyone's just like, no, you're going too far.
05:59You're insane.
06:00Don't go that far.
06:01And we said, well, he should be friends with someone who, instead of holding him back, is actively pushing him forward.
06:08We need someone like you, Billy, before the Supes start rounding us up and dumping us off in camps.
06:14If Butcher found himself with someone who was as bad as Butcher, that's a really dangerous combination.
06:21But then you need to find someone as charismatic to basically be another Carl, and that doesn't grow on trees.
06:27And luckily, that was when Jeffrey and I were talking about him doing a part.
06:31And, you know, those two can really go toe to toe.
06:33Introducing brand new Supes to the Seven, Sister Sage and Firecracker.
06:38Look, what's important is, what are you selling?
06:41I'm here to share the truth. Nothing but what are you selling?
06:47Did I stutter?
06:48How did you create those specific characters?
06:51Sage came out of the conversation of, you know, one weakness that Homelander really has is he's generally surrounded by idiots.
07:00And so if we gave him someone truly brilliant, that that makes him much more formidable.
07:08It turns out that that's a really hard character to write.
07:10Like, it's really hard to write the smartest person in the world because you have to write things that the smartest person in the world would think of.
07:18And that's, we're not the smartest people in the world.
07:22So that's really difficult.
07:24You know, and then Sage became like a really interesting character because, you know, someone came up with the notion of like, well, let's make her an African-American woman who nobody listens to.
07:34And so here she is, the ability to save all of mankind.
07:38And everyone just kind of thinks she's invisible, which, you know, I thought was a super interesting social commentary on top of that character.
07:47And then Susan, you know, brings it to life and is just so smart.
07:50Firecracker came from like, hey, isn't Marjorie Taylor Greene scary?
07:56And it's just like that type of personality that's sort of like you had Trump, but now you have these like Trump spawn that are trying to outdo each other for how outrageous and sexualized and gun-toting and slavishly obedient they can be.
08:15And just that idea of starting to, like, it wouldn't just start and end with Homelander.
08:21He would start to create these spores that would grow into these other characters.
08:26And she's a version of that.
08:28And as you said, The Boys has become increasingly political.
08:33At what point did you realize that that was an intrinsic part of the show?
08:38Very early.
08:39When we first pitched the show, it was before Trump was elected.
08:42And the idea that a celebrity would actively want to turn themselves into a fascist autocrat was kind of a crazy idea.
08:50I mean, it still is, but it turned out to have happened.
08:54But we sort of lucked into whose metaphor is really about the moment we're living in, which is the cross-section of celebrity and authoritarianism.
09:10It's over! All right!
09:13And so, like, once we realized that, we're like, well, we have to go—we have to go all the way.
09:17And so every season we've just pushed it a little bit further.
09:21But it's all over.
09:22I mean, it's all over season one.
09:24You know, he's giving very George Bush speeches.
09:27He's, you know, being praised by throngs of devout followers.
09:33I mean, it's there from the beginning.
09:36Right.
09:37Do you ever worry about being too political?
09:40I mean, Liberty was a literal Nazi in season two.
09:44Or is it just something you lean into?
09:46I'm just going to lean into it, and then the audience can sort of decide whether they want to watch or not.
09:52I mean, it's like it's almost become South Park.
09:59You know what I mean?
10:00Where it's just like there's just so few shows that can directly comment on the world we're living in.
10:08And they get to do it as a cartoon.
10:10We get to hold up a mirror as a fantasy genre show.
10:14I mean, it's all in the original comic.
10:16The comic is really political.
10:18It's just it's political about, like, the post-9-11 George Bush era.
10:23The Boys is a show that examines and very much dams toxic masculinity.
10:29There's a theory of the bad fan, people who just root for villains just because they like the bad things that they do.
10:37Do you ever think about The Boys fandom and wonder about the ratio of bad fans?
10:44I have to believe that the, you know, the quote-unquote bad fans are a very small minority.
10:54Because I don't know how you root for Homelander.
10:59You know, when the guy is, like, slurping up breast milk and being, like, the weakest character in the show over and over and over again.
11:06And being, like, he's not even particularly macho.
11:09He's weird.
11:11You know, he's weird and thin-skinned.
11:13I'm stronger. I'm smarter.
11:15I'm better.
11:17I am better!
11:19I don't know how you look at that guy and you're like, that's my guy.
11:22But I think it's a minority.
11:25The show's not subtle. It wears its politics on its sleeve.
11:29And it's funny to rip on, you know, the madness on the right.
11:35And, you know, we get some shots in on the left of, like, all the performative wokeness and everything.
11:40So I'm hoping that that's the vast majority.
11:43When Aaron Moriarty spoke out last year about being attacked by some of the fandom, you tweeted, I'm going to quote it.
11:51Hi trolls. One, this is literally the opposite of the show's fucking message.
11:55Two, you're causing pain to real people with real feelings.
11:59Be kind. If you can't be kind, then eat a bag of dicks, fuck off to the sun, and don't watch the boys.
12:05We don't want you.
12:06Yeah, that is a thing that I said.
12:08Incredible.
12:09What made you do that and how was it received?
12:11First question why I did it is I'm really protective of my actors.
12:17You know, like, they're all really good people.
12:20And you start to feel like their dad, you know, in a way.
12:26And, like, she was genuinely hurt and, like, really upset.
12:34And I just felt like, you know, fuck them.
12:37Like, I was genuinely angry.
12:39I can't say I put a lot of careful thought into it.
12:42It's perfect.
12:43I just was, like, I was pissed that they were coming after one of my actors.
12:46And, yeah, actually, the response was strangely positive.
12:52Like, I think there was just a lot of people that watched that stuff from afar.
12:57And it's just like, that's bullshit.
12:59You know, like, I get that that person is in the public eye.
13:03And you're allowed to say, I like that performance.
13:06I don't like that performance.
13:08I like that show.
13:09I don't like that show.
13:10You know, that actor works for me.
13:11They don't work for me.
13:12Obviously.
13:13We all do.
13:14But, like, when it starts to become, like, these personal attacks on who they are.
13:20And, like, when fucking Megyn Kelly starts, wants to talk about it, it's just, it's really not fair.
13:27Because they're not in a position that they can fight back.
13:30Yeah.
13:31So, yeah.
13:33The trolls really can eat a bag of dicks and fuck off to the sun.
13:36I reiterate that comment.
13:38The point of view of the boys' comic is pretty geared toward the male characters.
13:45And from the very beginning, the women on the boys have been really full, in-depth characters.
13:52Was that something you came into the series saying, we're going to do this?
13:57Yeah, very much so.
13:58I mean, the comic is, as you say, like, very, very, like, male-oriented.
14:03And, I mean, part of it just comes from the practical considerations of, like, hey, I want a really big tent.
14:11You know, and I don't want to do some edgelord thing where, you know, I don't want to make, like, edgelord material for incels or whatever.
14:19You know, like, I want something for everybody.
14:21And so I was like, you know, we really need to muscle up the female characters.
14:26It worked, and it gave us a fresher perspective to see what a woman's point of view in this world is, this sort of, like, toxic, macho world.
14:39So then we just kept doing more of it.
14:41Also, like, the pilot begins with a sexual assault, and it's handled a little glibly in the comic.
14:47And we always said, well, if we're going to handle it, we have to really be responsible and dive into it.
14:54Do you have any plans for a true crossover between The Boys and Gen V?
15:00I like the idea that there's, like, strands and Easter eggs that kind of pop back and forth.
15:06But, like, full team-up, no.
15:09I live in total fear of this notion that, like, you have to watch both of them to understand the other one.
15:18And so to me, it's like, if you want to watch The Boys, you don't want to watch this other show, don't watch it.
15:23If you want to watch Gen V and don't watch The Boys, which I actually know a lot of people that do that, great.
15:28You know, like, they're each their own story.
15:30They each have their own reason for being.
15:32They each need to be good enough to exist without the other one existing.
15:37But I'm not giving the audience homework.
15:40You've started filming season two of Gen V.
15:43Yeah.
15:44Can you talk about that a little bit?
15:45Yeah.
15:46I mean, look, it's been, it's, you know, it's no secret that we were dealt, you know, quite a blow.
15:52And we lost one of our leading actors tragically to a motorcycle accident, Chance Perdomo.
15:59And so it's been really been emotional and difficult.
16:03I think it's hard for the actors.
16:06I mean, they're a real family.
16:08And, you know, we had to rethink and rewrite everything in like a really short period of time to make sure we were honoring him, which is challenging.
16:21But it's pales in comparison to what his family and friends are going through.
16:27So, of course.
16:29I'm so sorry.
16:30No, thanks.
16:31Thanks.
16:32From the beginning of The Boys, the show really has deviated from the comics.
16:37Did you go in saying this is going to be very different?
16:41For sure.
16:42The comic itself is really episodic.
16:44Like I always used to say it would really work in a like a rated X CBS.
16:49Like it, you know, because it basically works as a procedural where like every two or three issues is its own story and then they move on.
16:56And there isn't like an incredible amount of building.
17:01And, you know, look, the necessity of streaming, especially at that time, was I needed a story that could support eight hours.
17:10And the books simply didn't have that.
17:13So I knew from the very jump.
17:15My attack was I said to Garth Ennis, I want to get the characters right and I want to get the tone right.
17:23But are you OK if the story isn't the same?
17:28And he was great.
17:29He like totally got it.
17:30It's funny what he always says to me is like, just get Butcher right.
17:33You know, Butcher is a character that he really feels personally strong about.
17:40And almost invariably his notes are about Butcher and Butcher's dialogue, which is great because, you know, he's from, you know, he's from Ireland and has much more of an ear for what someone from East London would sound like than I do.
17:55They got all the money and all the power and they want us dead.
17:58We're outmanned and outgunned and we've got to put them cunts in a box before they do it to us.
18:03People who've read the comics know how the story of the comics ends, which strikes me as not the right ending for the show you've made.
18:13What do you think about that?
18:15Yeah, there's there's some stuff in the comic that we couldn't do even if we wanted to.
18:23You know, I think, look, there's some shocking twists in the comic, but I would want them to be like just like a little more emotionally satisfying, you know.
18:34And and so, you know, the ending I have in mind is certainly has elements that it's inspired by that, you know, but it's not it's not the ending from the comics.
18:50We're winding down here, but we can do some more rapid fire things.
18:54Oh, cool. Speed ramp.
18:56So will it be a two year goddamn break between seasons or what do you think?
19:02Look, I'm writing as fast as I can.
19:04All right. OK. What's happening with The Boys Mexico?
19:07The deal for the writer is just closing and then he's going to start writing the pilot.
19:13What's your favorite episode ever of The Boys? Like the one where you were like, this is it. This is the show.
19:19That'd be like asking who my favorite kids are.
19:22You probably have one.
19:24Yeah. You name your favorite child and I'll name my favorite episode of The Boys.
19:28No, but there's ones there's things that I love.
19:30The one that was the first one that I was like, oh, I get what this show is, is season one, episode four of the plane hijacking.
19:43So they could tell the world that we left the rest of them to fucking die.
19:52Yes.
19:53You know, that was when like, oh, I get it. I get it now.
19:57And so I'll say that one, but really all of them.
20:01What's an example of something that you saw and you were like, this is really working.
20:07Let's write more toward that.
20:09I'll tell you one, Frenchie and Kimiko.
20:11You know, that was one where like they have this very sweet relationship in the comics.
20:16And so we knew we wanted to do that.
20:18But like the chemistry between those two is like so off the charts that we just kept writing it and writing it.
20:27And all credit to Karen Fukuhara, who is delivering like a great performance without having said a single line of dialogue.
20:36Like, yeah, like what a high wire act of a performance.
20:39Absolutely.
20:40And you always understand where she is and where she's coming from.
20:43And she brings you into her experience.
20:46And so I would say, yeah, Frenchie and Kimiko is probably the best answer to that.
20:50The black noir character is very different and interesting in the comics.
20:55Was that ever a storyline that you were interested in at all?
20:59No. And I don't mind saying it in the in the comics.
21:02He's a clone of Homelander this entire time and is actually the one doing all these horrific things.
21:10And again, it's a hell of a twist.
21:12But it's like, well, wait, the villain I've been following isn't really the villain.
21:18And that, you know, mileage varies.
21:20And I'm sure fans are mad I'm not going that way.
21:23But that felt not as satisfying to me, you know, as I'm like, if if I'm going to follow this villain, I want this guy to be the villain.
21:32So I was never really into the clone idea.
21:35Plus, cloning feels like too.
21:37I mean, it sounds silly, but cloning feels too magical for the show.
21:40You know, we try to say that like superheroes are the only slippery banana.
21:44And then everything else we try to make as grounded as possible.
21:47Jim Beaver has been in the boys since season one.
21:50Jensen Ackles was was and is Soldier Boy.
21:53Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Rob Benedict joined the season.
21:57You've told my colleague Jenny Moss that you're hoping to write Jared Padalecki in for next season, even for a bit part.
22:04Yes.
22:05How have you decided to seed in the supernatural actors appearances?
22:10You know, the reason I want the actors outside of the kickback they give me, you know, 20 percent of every role.
22:19It's a really simple answer, which is like I just like working with people that I know and I like, you know, and and I just happen to like a lot of people from that cast and keep in touch with all of them.
22:31And we're all still a big family.
22:33And, you know, it just makes your life easier when you someone is coming to set and, you know, they're good and, you know, they'll get along with everyone else.
22:41And then in terms of like Easter eggs, like part of it is also, you know, my producing director is Phil Sigricia, who is one of our most prolific directors of Supernatural.
22:51Chris Lennertz, who did the music like we're all kind of there, you know, and so behind the scenes as well as the actors in front.
23:01And so, you know, Phil say like, hey, let's do a trunk shot.
23:04I'm like, cool.
23:05We'll make some reference to the Supernatural trunk or, you know, or he wants to put an Impala in an online, you know, little cartoon or something.
23:13And so it's just honestly like so much of this job is just amusing ourselves, probably a frightening amount.
23:20I think people would be surprised to know how much of this job is just like, well, I don't know, it makes me laugh.
23:25And then we just do it.
23:27You've created this whole world and it's an expanding universe.
23:32How much are you thinking about where it's all going and when it will end?
23:39I don't know the answer to when it will end.
23:45Look, it's like it's a little intimidating to me.
23:51As I mentioned before, like I'm really scared of turning into the thing that we're parodying.
23:57So it's just really important to make those stories matter and give them all their own reason for being.
24:08And that they don't feel like cash grabs, you know, like they feel like, oh, there's people who are passionate about telling these stories.
24:16And that's what we're trying to do.
24:18And, you know, it takes a village of really brilliant people.
24:22Michelle Fizikas, who's running Gen V, does an incredible job.
24:27But I just I hope that we keep our quality up, you know, or not do it.
24:33You know, and I hope we're more selective and we keep the quality going because I don't, you know, again, it'd be a huge bummer if of all shows like this is the show that sells out.
24:46So I'm going to try. I'm fighting that really hard.
24:49Eric, thank you so much.
24:51Wonderful.
24:52Yeah, it's really fun. Thanks.
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