How Can I Save My Brother? Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

In this heartfelt conversation, I listened to a caller bravely open up about the challenges and abuse within their family, including emotional manipulation from their father and their mother's inability to protect them. We explored the impact of corporal punishment on the caller and their brother, dissecting the complexities of their parents' marriage, divorce, and the aftermath on the family. Delving into the caller's past experiences and the lingering effects on their upbringing, we dove into the concepts of accountability, apologies, and the mother's role in the family dynamics. I emphasized the importance of addressing past traumas, fostering open communication, and encouraged the caller to prioritize healing and honesty in their relationships.  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Get my new series on the Truth About the French Revolution, the Truth About Sadism, access to the audiobook for my new book 'Peaceful Parenting,' StefBOT-AI, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00 Hello. Hello. Can you hear me?

00:00:02 Hello. Hey, how's it going?

00:00:04 I'm good

00:00:06 Well, uh, yeah, i'm i'm all ears. Uh sounds like quite an exciting

00:00:10 Situation. Do you wanna you want to fill me in? Uh, yes. Let me find my

00:00:15 notes

00:00:18 Uh, yeah, um, so let me uh

00:00:25 Uh, my brother is engaged currently engaged to

00:00:30 uh

00:00:33 Someone who I

00:00:35 Have some serious concerns about

00:00:37 Just the way she um treats him and how she still

00:00:42 uh

00:00:45 She's still involved in the side of my family who are kind of abusive

00:00:54 And I really don't think it's good for my brother to be around them

00:00:58 And she still tries to actively have them be a part of his life and her life

00:01:06 And I just see him, uh

00:01:13 Kind of going down a bad path, especially if he gets in a marriage with her

00:01:19 Well, um

00:01:23 I'm i'm happy to hear more. That's not much detail to go on. So if you want to you know,

00:01:27 we're in maybe the initial tooth pulling part of the conversation, but i'm all ears, uh, if you want to tell me

00:01:35 What's been going on with your family and and that background of the people he's still in touch with if you know anything about

00:01:42 her family and

00:01:44 and all of that, uh, uh, i'm i'm all ears

00:01:48 Uh, well my parents just finalized their divorce this january

00:01:53 So that's the most recent thing that's happened. Uh, but

00:01:58 Uh

00:02:02 The uh, the main issue with my dad is he

00:02:08 We never had a like a paternal relationship

00:02:14 I never had a paternal relationship with him and um, he would often blame me for that

00:02:19 like I remember being really little and trying to

00:02:24 Uh show interest in his interests and like fishing and baseball and just trying to

00:02:33 be

00:02:36 Like the best at what like the sports I was in and try to get his attention and show him that

00:02:44 Like try to have a connection with him and it never really

00:02:47 Happened and then as I got older he would start

00:02:52 uh

00:02:54 Picking on me for the fact that I didn't hang out with him as much or I seemed to look to not like him

00:03:01 and so I would try to go on errands with him and and be around him and it just

00:03:08 never

00:03:11 Uh

00:03:12 Nothing came from it. So I finally just kind of gave up and that's when he started really. Um,

00:03:20 I guess

00:03:26 Uh

00:03:28 Picking like really picking on me and

00:03:32 Kind of pushing me around

00:03:36 And he it was like he was angry at me all the time

00:03:42 And I just kind of hid from him

00:03:44 And tried to stay away from him

00:03:48 and

00:03:51 I'm, sorry

00:03:51 How old were you when that sort of flip were you trying to chase him to you?

00:03:55 Not chasing him anymore and then him turning on you. How old were you there?

00:03:59 I was around 14

00:04:02 Okay, got it. Got it. All right. So sorry go ahead

00:04:06 yeah, so

00:04:08 He he would start

00:04:10 like he would

00:04:12 kind of

00:04:14 get really angry and yell and throw things and

00:04:17 Uh, then

00:04:21 He would try to like

00:04:23 fake apologize

00:04:25 like he he he would uh

00:04:27 Say, oh

00:04:29 I didn't mean to do that. I didn't mean to call you that those names. I didn't mean to throw it

00:04:34 but you you know, you you can't you know, I don't like it when you do like

00:04:40 When you disrespect me or when you

00:04:42 ignore me

00:04:45 You know things like i'm trying to have a relationship with you, but you're just cold and distant and i'm trying to have relations

00:04:50 You're not opening up to me

00:04:53 And

00:04:57 And uh, he would just he would just blame me for the fact that

00:05:03 Um

00:05:07 We don't have a relationship and then he would kind of

00:05:10 Be okay to be around for a bit and then it would just get worse again and that kind of repeated for

00:05:18 I guess many years until uh

00:05:21 My parents finally separated and I wasn't around him anymore that often

00:05:29 And that's what's going on at the moment. Is that right the separation?

00:05:33 Uh

00:05:36 yes, they're finally divorced and i've

00:05:39 Kind of cut all contact with him

00:05:42 okay, i'm sorry to hear that but uh

00:05:44 What's would he?

00:05:46 I mean he wasn't physically violent if I understand this correctly

00:05:49 But he would say some pretty terrible things and what were the things that he would say that would you know really hit your heart

00:05:56 Um, he would say that I was lazy

00:06:01 And

00:06:04 Disrespectful

00:06:06 And

00:06:09 He would uh, he'd occasionally occasionally like call me

00:06:15 Uh

00:06:18 I think well, I don't have a memory of this specifically, but um, I

00:06:23 My mom has said

00:06:27 That um, he's like called me like a lazy

00:06:30 B word essentially

00:06:34 And called me other cuss words like that. I don't think it was directly to my face

00:06:39 But because he's a paul. I remember him apologizing for it, but not remember him calling me it

00:06:45 Um, oh, okay. Got it. I'm sorry about that

00:06:50 That's I mean I have a daughter myself and the idea of calling her names is I mean, I'm honestly completely incomprehensible

00:06:57 But obviously it's it's quite common and i'm really sorry for that just just as a whole

00:07:02 Okay

00:07:04 Okay, and

00:07:06 Your relationship with your father, when did you when did you stop seeing him or them?

00:07:13 Stop um

00:07:16 Um

00:07:19 I guess it would have been

00:07:21 Kind of around last year when I really like that's when I finally blocked him

00:07:31 um

00:07:33 On the phone like his phone I blocked his phone number and stopped receiving texts

00:07:37 And would try to avoid places

00:07:41 Uh

00:07:43 That he was gonna be

00:07:45 And was there something in particular that prompted that or was it more of an accumulation or how did that happen?

00:07:53 Um

00:07:55 there was

00:07:57 A specific I just there was a specific incident or I just got sick of him where he I was still I had just gotten

00:08:04 Married, but I was still on his insurance

00:08:07 And I went to the dentist

00:08:09 and so

00:08:11 The part of the bill wasn't covered

00:08:14 And so they sent him a bill because he's on the insurance

00:08:18 And he I remember getting a phone call from him and got it getting a really bad feeling

00:08:25 And usually when that when I get a phone call and there's a bad feeling around it. I know he's gonna yell at me

00:08:31 So I didn't answer

00:08:33 And then it turns out that he called the dentist and yelled at the dentist lady

00:08:38 about the insurance and

00:08:41 that's when I decided to just i'm not gonna

00:08:45 Like even he's

00:08:48 Even him contacting me through the phone is

00:08:52 Uh

00:08:54 dangerous so I

00:08:56 Decided to just cut him off from there completely

00:09:00 Okay, I get that and what's your relationship with your mother like or was throughout your childhood and and now?

00:09:08 Um

00:09:12 It's okay i've been kind of

00:09:15 Angry at her in the recent years because of how long she stayed with him

00:09:20 and

00:09:24 Just like how um

00:09:26 She's I mean she is kind of learning not to

00:09:31 Like she's

00:09:35 coming to grips with

00:09:37 what

00:09:38 Had happened and she's recognizing that she probably shouldn't stay as long with him

00:09:43 um

00:09:46 So

00:09:48 I'm still kind of healing from that, but i'm not I still speak with her

00:09:52 And I still let her see

00:09:55 my daughter

00:09:56 And sorry, so her first of all congratulations on the marriage and congratulations on the parents, but I just wanted to be clear about that

00:10:03 That's wonderful

00:10:04 And I I don't know if you how are you feeling over the course of starting this this conversation? How's your heart?

00:10:10 Um

00:10:14 Shaky

00:10:16 Yeah, because the communication is

00:10:18 a little

00:10:21 Tense on your side and I understand that I mean this is difficult stuff to talk about

00:10:25 is there anything that that you know, like shake it out or relax a little bit because

00:10:29 It it's uh, I feel like you haven't blinked since we started talking

00:10:33 Yeah, I just need to

00:10:37 uh

00:10:42 I guess uh chip away at it if that makes sense. Yeah, it's a safe space. Okay, I don't know

00:10:47 I hate that phrase, but it kind of is

00:10:49 Okay, so i'm trying to sort of figure out so with your mom

00:10:52 When you said that that her faults and I know this is not obviously the whole relationship

00:10:58 But it's what what I got you said her fault was that she stayed with your dad for too long. Is that right?

00:11:03 Yeah

00:11:06 but that's kind of my

00:11:08 issue with her

00:11:10 or

00:11:11 I mean, it's not i'm not as angry as her with her

00:11:14 As I was like last year

00:11:17 But okay. Well last year what would you have said and you know, maybe right maybe wrong

00:11:21 But last year, what would you have said her faults are?

00:11:23 Um

00:11:27 She

00:11:29 Yeah, this is and it involves a lot with my brother, uh, she

00:11:34 Um, she doesn't work you okay, do you need some water

00:11:41 Just curious. Yeah, sorry. Um

00:11:43 She

00:11:48 A couple of times over the course of doing these shows i've had a coffee fit. So it does happen but that's all right. She

00:11:54 Doesn't recognize the fact that one of the reasons why my brother isn't really communicating with us anymore is because

00:12:04 um

00:12:07 That he might be angry at her

00:12:11 And

00:12:13 Okay. No, but I was asking what you would have said about your mother last year when you were more angry

00:12:16 With her not what your brother might say now

00:12:19 um

00:12:21 that's one of the is she

00:12:23 she will often like talk about how

00:12:25 my brother isn't speaking with her anymore and

00:12:28 um how he's becoming distant and I get angry at her because um

00:12:35 she

00:12:37 would uh

00:12:38 she's like complaining to me about this and

00:12:41 i'm like the obvious reason is because

00:12:45 um

00:12:47 she

00:12:49 She's

00:12:51 She you know, she stayed with um my dad for so long

00:12:56 and

00:12:58 He she's kind of she would play the victim

00:13:01 Sometimes

00:13:05 And kind of

00:13:08 Fall into

00:13:10 Becoming a victim like not ignore the signs

00:13:13 of

00:13:15 Danger and fall into being a hook coming a victim and then complain

00:13:19 How she's a victim and that would irritate me

00:13:23 So what does she say that is the victim

00:13:28 statement or it makes

00:13:31 Gives you the sense that she's portraying herself as a victim. I'm not saying you're wrong

00:13:33 I just want to know what she's saying

00:13:36 um

00:13:38 She

00:13:40 She would she would uh

00:13:46 Talk about how you know where my brothers become so distant and how

00:13:55 She doesn't understand like she always reaches out to them and all this stuff and she'll start crying and

00:14:07 And

00:14:09 What

00:14:11 I i'm trying to remember exactly

00:14:14 Okay, I mean does she acknowledge that your father

00:14:18 Said some pretty terrible things and did some pretty terrible things over the course of you and your brother's childhood

00:14:24 Um

00:14:28 not

00:14:29 Not really. I mean she would recognize that he wasn't the best but she wouldn't really recall

00:14:36 specific

00:14:37 Instances. Well, she claimed not to recall who knows right?

00:14:40 Right. We don't have the window into other people's thought processes

00:14:45 So

00:14:48 She doesn't think that I mean obviously there was room for improvement. She would say that you know

00:14:52 She wouldn't get into any specifics. Is that right?

00:14:55 Yeah, it was and what about your mother's?

00:15:00 Parenting how was that?

00:15:02 um

00:15:06 Her mom

00:15:07 Um, well her mom died when I was in middle school. So I wasn't around her a lot because I lived so far away

00:15:13 we would only occasionally meet her but

00:15:16 From what my mom my mom's stories of her childhood and from what I saw of her mom

00:15:22 she was

00:15:24 um, very

00:15:26 controlling

00:15:27 and

00:15:29 Mean and like she my mom

00:15:34 My mom would recall instances of like when she would talk about how she

00:15:39 She would come home like she would have like a favorite

00:15:43 Pair of shoes or favorite dress and she would come home and it'd be gone

00:15:49 Just missing and she doesn't know where it where it would go and that would also happen with homework

00:15:55 She would write a full paper and it'd be due tomorrow and she'd come back home from

00:16:02 Uh go uh being with friends and the paper would be gone and she'd have to turn in nothing the next day

00:16:09 and

00:16:12 Uh, just how her mom

00:16:15 Would just control her the portion her portion sizes. Sorry, but why would her why would her mom throw out her homework?

00:16:26 Well, we don't she doesn't she didn't really know at the time where it went she just thought it disappeared

00:16:32 And then she kind of figured out that it was her mom

00:16:36 Okay, that doesn't explain why her mom would throw out her homework

00:16:40 I

00:16:42 I'm, not really sure why her mom would throw out her homework either. Okay. I wasn't sure if your mom had a theory. Okay

00:16:47 Now, you know, you're manipulating me, right? I don't know if you know that i'm sure you do right?

00:16:54 No, yeah, I mean you're really taking me on a ride here and I appreciate it. I I don't mind a good ride

00:16:59 I I can do a roller coaster or two

00:17:01 Uh, but do you remember what my question was?

00:17:04 uh

00:17:07 What how were my mom's parents

00:17:10 No, I said how was your mom when you were a kid?

00:17:13 Oh

00:17:15 And you give me the sob story about your grandmother

00:17:17 Sorry. No, no, don't apologize. This is like, you know, i'm saying the speech is kind of halted

00:17:23 That's because your mom doesn't want this part of the conversation

00:17:25 your inner mom, right

00:17:28 so

00:17:29 i'm asking you

00:17:31 How your mother was with you because your father did some pretty bad things, right?

00:17:35 And how was your mother with you? And the first thing you start is well, my mother had a very bad childhood

00:17:40 Yeah, I don't care I don't care and and the reason I don't care is it's no excuse

00:17:51 I mean did I I had a bad childhood does that give me an excuse to be a bad parent?

00:17:55 No, completely complete completely opposite, right?

00:17:59 Yeah, because I know how bad it is to have a bad childhood

00:18:04 So i'm extra responsible to be a good parent, right?

00:18:08 Yeah, okay, so

00:18:11 I don't care what happened to your mother when she was a child because i'm not on the phone with her

00:18:15 I'm on the phone with you

00:18:17 So what matters to me is what happened to you as a child and the fact that you start with your mother's sob story about

00:18:22 Her childhood is really important, right?

00:18:25 So what happened with you and your mom and your brother and your mom as far as you saw when you were a kid

00:18:34 Um

00:18:39 She was

00:18:45 She was um

00:18:47 How do I say this

00:18:51 She was okay to be around by herself, but um, she would uh

00:18:57 Excuse my dad's actions she by like, um

00:19:05 My dad would get mad because we're making too much noise or

00:19:15 Um

00:19:17 we broke something and

00:19:19 She instead of recognizing my my my dad is kind of going too far

00:19:26 She would kind of

00:19:30 Uh

00:19:33 Wrangle us up and kind of like shush us like don't do that because that uh dad would be angry like don't do that

00:19:40 and then sometimes she would even

00:19:44 She would punish us like we'd be in the back of the car and making too much noise and dad would get angry

00:19:50 And so she would take you know

00:19:53 a wooden spoon

00:19:55 That she would have in her bag and like smack our hands

00:19:58 Oh god, and then

00:20:00 That would shut us up and then

00:20:03 She would then later apologize

00:20:12 Saying that she shouldn't have done that. Sorry. What do you mean like later that day or

00:20:16 Yeah when dad wasn't around

00:20:19 Okay, so she hit you

00:20:21 So that your dad wouldn't get angry and I assume it hurt right?

00:20:24 I mean that wooden spoon stuff on the back of a hand can you know really hit the the knuckles and right?

00:20:30 Yeah

00:20:33 And then later that day she'd say i'm sorry but like, you know how your dad is that kind of thing

00:20:40 Yeah, it was it's usually like i'm sorry, but you know dad you don't want him to get angry

00:20:46 Okay, well clearly you didn't mind it too much because you were making the noise, right

00:20:52 Yeah, but I mean he would get angry over very small things

00:21:00 So we would just be humming along to the music and he'd get angry, right?

00:21:07 Now how often

00:21:09 Would your father we'll get back to your mother in a sec. How often would your father lose?

00:21:14 His temper or be alarming to be around or or make you nervous?

00:21:18 Um

00:21:22 It kind of followed a cycle so usually

00:21:27 You know, he'd be in a good mood and then that's when you knew he was about to blow up

00:21:37 And so it was kind of it was more often he was angry and you just hide but the occasional good mood

00:21:45 Pop up and that's when you knew

00:21:48 the bad was about to

00:21:51 He was about to

00:21:52 Lose it

00:21:54 Essentially. Oh, was it me because like you you you damn kids are spoiling my mood. You're

00:21:59 ruining my great day or

00:22:04 No, it was it was more just

00:22:06 A flip of the switch he was just mad

00:22:11 It might be what I think christopher hitchens said this about saddam hussein that he was the most dangerous when he was in a good mood

00:22:18 Like all tyrants, right

00:22:22 So how how often though would your father?

00:22:24 Be was it daily weekly monthly how often would your father be

00:22:31 Nervous like you'd be nervous to be around him or pretend

00:22:35 Um

00:22:39 Um, I guess when I was younger I I think it was more

00:22:46 week

00:22:48 week by week or

00:22:50 Occasionally month by month, but especially when I got like around 14

00:22:54 to to

00:22:57 How I how to adulthood it was it seemed almost daily. He was angry at something

00:23:04 Oh, okay. So I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. So when you were younger

00:23:09 He might only lose his temper like once a month like for one day

00:23:14 But the rest of like 29 30 days of the month

00:23:17 He'd be in a in a decent mood or a good mood or not be angry. Do I have that right?

00:23:22 Um

00:23:27 I'm not questioning you. I just want to make sure I I understand the parameters

00:23:32 Yeah, I mean it might more been more like twice a month

00:23:37 Okay, but but still relatively

00:23:40 Rare compared to what happened in your mid-teens, right?

00:23:43 Yeah, he kind of got worse as time went on

00:23:49 But you can remember decent like a two weeks at a time where he wouldn't lose his temper, right

00:23:55 Or I know it's tough to get exact when you're a kid, but something like that

00:23:58 Yeah

00:24:01 Yeah, I think he was more. Yeah

00:24:03 And how often would your mom end up smacking you and your brother?

00:24:08 In that way

00:24:11 Um

00:24:14 Not super often it would be

00:24:20 A few months

00:24:25 Between

00:24:27 If we we typically um, that's when

00:24:32 when she would

00:24:35 kind of

00:24:36 Smack us like that. It was kind of like a last resort

00:24:39 for her

00:24:42 it seemed

00:24:44 Because we were just not

00:24:46 We were we were just not listening to her to stop

00:24:50 and we kept on pushing it and she just

00:24:52 kind of stopped like do that to stop us because he was about to

00:24:56 My dad was about to really blow up. Well, you were just being kids making noise and having fun

00:25:03 Yeah. Yeah. So I mean this pushing it stuff or we weren't listening. It's like

00:25:07 I don't know. I I that's sort of victim blaming if that makes sense

00:25:11 Yeah, we weren't listening we were pushing it's like no no you were just being kids, right

00:25:19 Yeah

00:25:21 And how are you feeling talking about this stuff

00:25:23 Um

00:25:28 I

00:25:31 It's kind of hard to open up sometimes about certain things but um

00:25:38 I can

00:25:42 I'm just i'm still a little shaky

00:25:45 about certain topics

00:25:48 and is there anything that I could do to

00:25:50 Make it easier for you, or do we just keep plowing on?

00:25:53 Um

00:25:57 You just plow on all right plowing away now

00:26:04 Did your father use any your mother would hit you, um every couple of months you and your brother

00:26:11 And did your father use any corporal punishment?

00:26:16 Yeah, he would

00:26:18 Use the belt and that's when that's usually when we were being

00:26:22 I guess really bad according to his terms like we did something that he really didn't like

00:26:28 That's when he would break out the belt

00:26:32 Wow

00:26:36 And how often would that happen

00:26:42 To me it didn't happen very often but to my brother it would happen quite a bit

00:26:48 How often I know roughly um

00:26:54 There was

00:27:00 um

00:27:01 I there was a period of time where my brother really he would get it

00:27:06 Maybe every couple months or every month

00:27:11 And

00:27:13 Because he was that's I my brother was just really

00:27:17 Angry and he would always try to

00:27:21 push things

00:27:24 So we're that's still a little victim blaming there, right

00:27:28 Yeah

00:27:30 he would

00:27:32 Well, you fight back, right?

00:27:33 He was angry at your dad and he would he was disgusted at being humiliated and he would fight back if I understand this correctly

00:27:39 And maybe I don't but that would be my thought

00:27:41 yeah, that

00:27:43 That's that sounds about right from what I remember

00:27:46 And were the beatings on clothing or bare skin?

00:27:50 um

00:27:53 It would just be

00:27:56 um, sometimes it was on our underwear, but sometimes it wasn't it was just normal clothes

00:28:02 I don't remember any bare skin. Okay. Got it. Got it

00:28:07 And so, uh not very often for you every month or a couple of months for your brother at times, is that right?

00:28:13 Yeah

00:28:15 And I assume that your mother

00:28:17 Knew that your father was hitting you and your brother with belts, right? Oh with the belt

00:28:22 Uh, yes

00:28:25 and did she have any thoughts about that or did she ever try to intervene or did she

00:28:30 Get him a book on parenting or I don't know like something anger management courses anything, right?

00:28:37 I don't

00:28:39 Um

00:28:41 From what I remember. I don't think she really did anything

00:28:45 I think she

00:28:48 maybe once or twice tried to calm him down, but it

00:28:52 led nowhere, so

00:28:55 It still happened most of the time she would she wouldn't really step in or anything, right?

00:29:02 and did your you don't have to tell me what your father did or does but

00:29:06 Was he able to translate this aggressive side of him into?

00:29:10 Financial success over the course of his working life

00:29:15 Um

00:29:19 I'm i'm not really sure. I mean he was a salesman so he had to kind of

00:29:24 Well, I mean did you have a bunch of cars did you live in a really nice house?

00:29:29 I mean was he uh successful materially in this way?

00:29:33 um

00:29:35 Uh

00:29:38 I mean we lived in a pretty big house. We were just we weren't like, uh

00:29:45 We didn't spend a lot of money he well he liked to save money more than anything but we were

00:29:53 uh, we're living well, we had

00:29:58 A pretty decent sized house and a big backyard and lots of toys and stuff to play with

00:30:04 But nothing really

00:30:07 He didn't really buy anything extravagant

00:30:09 Or anything like that

00:30:12 And did your mother work or stay home?

00:30:14 My mother stayed home

00:30:17 Okay, and do you know much about your parents dating or courtship?

00:30:22 No, I just know that they met

00:30:28 At a hospital because my mom was an x-ray tech and that's where she met my dad

00:30:33 Okay

00:30:34 I'm, not sure what he's doing

00:30:36 And

00:30:40 Do you know how long they dated before they got married I do not okay and

00:30:48 Was your mother good-looking when she was younger i'm not saying she isn't now but you know in particular when she was younger

00:30:56 Um, I would think so yes

00:30:59 And your father was he handsome?

00:31:02 Uh, yeah

00:31:05 Okay. Yeah from what i've seen

00:31:07 Do you think or do you have any indication of whether your mother knew that your father had a temper before she had kid

00:31:14 Uh, yes, she he she did know he had a temper before we were

00:31:21 um because of stories about

00:31:26 Uh when they were first married and stuff with his siblings just how he has to temper would always be lost

00:31:33 on them

00:31:35 And I assume then that she also knew about this to some degree before she got married, right?

00:31:40 Most likely. Yeah. Okay. So she's 100 responsible for marrying a guy with a violent temper, right?

00:31:46 And giving him like dating getting engaged getting married giving him kids keeping the kids around him

00:31:54 I mean unless I miss my mark

00:31:56 She's 100 responsible for that, right

00:31:59 Yeah

00:32:02 But it seems like you hold like when I asked about your father you're like well, he said these mean words

00:32:06 He was violent. He you know, uh aggressive and and you know distant and right

00:32:11 You know

00:32:14 The dad right and then when I ask about your mom, you're like, oh, but her childhood was so terrible

00:32:18 You know what? I mean? Like

00:32:21 I'm trying i'm trying to figure out the disparity here

00:32:23 You

00:32:25 I mean, let me ask you this

00:32:33 Why has she divorced him or why is she divorcing him now?

00:32:35 Well, he was the one who uh filed for divorce

00:32:40 Ah, okay. And why did he do that? Do you know?

00:32:43 Um, I think

00:32:47 Well, um, he claimed that she was

00:32:52 cheating on him

00:32:54 and stole his money was what

00:32:56 He said yeah was what he was talking like really yelling about around when he filed

00:33:02 Okay, and what does your mom say to this

00:33:08 Um when she wasn't cheating and

00:33:13 The part where he she stole his money was her. Um

00:33:20 Taking some money out of the joint account just in case he he uh closed her off from it

00:33:27 Why would she be concerned that he would close her off financially?

00:33:32 um

00:33:35 Uh, I think he was I don't remember exactly but I think he was talking about

00:33:40 Uh leaving her around like he would constantly bring up

00:33:48 Going like leaving and going away possible divorce and when did he start bringing that stuff up?

00:33:54 Uh

00:34:01 Uh, I think it was

00:34:04 Around 2021 is like that year is kind of when everything blew up

00:34:11 but I don't remember

00:34:14 I don't have a lot of memories from then

00:34:16 Were they like covet trapped and and I mean, I know a lot of couples. Uh

00:34:21 Was sort of staring at each other was like, well, we don't have any distractions now

00:34:24 Um

00:34:28 I I think

00:34:32 Uh, i'm not really sure

00:34:34 what

00:34:36 spurted on

00:34:38 Because they were they were already not sleeping

00:34:40 in the same bed for a year

00:34:46 And then

00:34:48 Well, the whole thing was weird because we moved they they bought a house together in 2020

00:34:53 when they were not sleeping in the same bed

00:34:56 and then

00:34:59 He there was kind of that he was doing that false like everything's gonna be okay

00:35:04 We can work things out. And of course it didn't

00:35:08 And it was round thin when he really I guess because he was home all the time

00:35:15 Um, oh no, my mom was working during covet now that I remember

00:35:19 My dad was working from home and my mom was managing a farmer's store

00:35:28 and

00:35:30 She started saving. She didn't put the money in the joint account

00:35:34 and

00:35:37 My dad started getting angry at the fact that she wasn't cleaning the house

00:35:43 And cooking dinner while she worked from

00:35:45 eight to nine every day

00:35:49 You mean 8 a.m to 9 p.m not just one hour, right? Yeah, yeah

00:35:55 And

00:36:00 That's when he started really he would get I mean I stayed well

00:36:04 I would either go help my mom at the store just get away from him or stay in my room all day

00:36:12 and

00:36:14 Do you know if your mother's?

00:36:16 store made money

00:36:18 Um, well she was

00:36:21 She didn't own the store. She was just working for the farmer. Oh, so she got paid hourly, right? Yeah, okay

00:36:27 So

00:36:33 The marriage I guess began to break down as your father ever provided any evidence that she cheated

00:36:40 No

00:36:42 Did they either of them ever try couples counseling or or workshops or workbooks or anything like that?

00:36:49 um, they've

00:36:51 Tried many times

00:36:53 Oh, they tried marital counseling

00:36:56 over the course of your childhood

00:36:58 Yes several several times

00:37:00 I mean, I know it's tough to remember you don't know what really happened, but you have any any sense why it didn't take

00:37:10 My dad would often complain about the counselor

00:37:14 and stop going

00:37:17 that's usually what would

00:37:19 it would just fall apart because he

00:37:21 He he's like, they don't know what they're doing and

00:37:23 Thought that he would just not go anymore

00:37:27 and did your did your parents

00:37:30 ever tell you or did you get any sense or indication of why they

00:37:34 Ended up in separate bedrooms

00:37:39 Um

00:37:41 Um, uh, I know my mom kind of would tell me why she she just

00:37:50 I'm trying to remember exactly what she said. Oh, it could be approximate. I don't need I don't need super exactitude

00:38:01 and uh, it was

00:38:05 She would

00:38:06 I think she just didn't like sleeping in the same bed. Like he would well. No, that's kind of tautological, right?

00:38:12 Why why are they sleeping in separate beds while they don't like sleeping in the same bed?

00:38:15 Yeah, I get that but why I mean they've been doing it for decades, right?

00:38:19 I don't mean doing it. I just mean sleeping in the same bed for decades

00:38:22 I uh

00:38:25 She was just kind of I think she was just kind of sick of him like he would

00:38:30 he would toss and turn and I think one time he

00:38:35 Like punched her in his sleep or something was I remember her talking about she would just

00:38:41 not she couldn't go to sleep while in the same bed as him because he would kind of

00:38:46 Roll on her and kind of shove her off. And so she started sleeping on the couch

00:38:53 Oh the couch

00:38:55 Yeah, but you guys had a big house. Oh they moved right?

00:38:57 Yeah, we moved on the couch for don't you have more than one room?

00:39:02 Well, this was I guess this was

00:39:04 uh, we that was

00:39:06 um, we

00:39:08 My dad lost his job and then we downsized we moved to a completely different state and downsized

00:39:13 That was so that later on that was in my teens, but that's when they started not sleeping in the same bed

00:39:20 Oh, okay. Okay. And do you know why your dad lost his job? Was he just like was it just like uh,

00:39:25 layoffs in general or him in particular

00:39:29 Yeah, there was a bunch of layoffs and he got nixed

00:39:33 Okay, got it. Got it

00:39:36 So your dad filed divorce citing theft and infidelity right and your mom of course denies all of this

00:39:43 Yes

00:39:45 and do you know if your mom has

00:39:47 Uh tried to figure out if she can do any i'm not saying whether she should or shouldn't

00:39:52 but has she tried to figure out if she can do anything to

00:39:56 Rescue the marriage or stay or do you think she's kind of like yeah, okay if we're done we're done

00:40:01 I think

00:40:09 When he filed she found out that he filed for divorce

00:40:13 She was just it was more of like how do I survive?

00:40:16 and the kids is what like

00:40:18 What do I need to do to survive with the kids was essentially what she was thinking?

00:40:26 And not i'm not sure what that means well she

00:40:29 She started looking for a more stable job and what does she need to do like find a

00:40:38 Do we need to move out kind of situation? Like how does she's not like if he's not gonna

00:40:45 Uh, if he wants to leave the marriage

00:40:49 How uh, she's you know, she's done with it. And how does she survive with us because he's not gonna help

00:40:56 And you and your brother are both adults, right?

00:40:59 Uh, yes, you're a married woman and a mom. And so what does that mean to survive with?

00:41:05 The children i'm trying to understand her thinking there because the kids are already were you guys both living at home still?

00:41:12 uh

00:41:14 Yes, uh my brother well, there's there's us. I also have a another younger brother. So there's three there's three of us

00:41:21 and

00:41:24 I was yes, I was 18

00:41:26 at the time, but I was still living with my parents and

00:41:30 my brother my two younger brothers were um

00:41:34 Both underage. I think he was 16. Another one was like 14. So, oh, okay. Okay

00:41:41 I mean, so your mother had some pretty serious concerns about

00:41:47 um

00:41:49 Income, I don't know alimony child support like however that was gonna was gonna play out, right?

00:41:54 Yeah

00:41:56 Okay. Got it. Got it

00:41:58 And is the divorce in process?

00:42:00 Or is it no it must be done by now, right? Yeah, it was they finally did it officially finalized in january of this year

00:42:09 wow, that's uh

00:42:12 I don't need to know how old you are, but that seems close on half a decade

00:42:17 Um

00:42:19 Well

00:42:22 Well, it was only uh

00:42:24 It was a few years. Yeah

00:42:26 And do you know I mean I assume you've had some idea as to why

00:42:30 It was so contentious or so certain to say contentious so lengthy

00:42:35 yeah, oh part of the reason was my dad kept on switching lawyers, so

00:42:40 They had to be filled in and then the date for some kind of court

00:42:47 Mediation thing kept on being pushed back because he was complaining it was

00:42:51 It was a lot of it was him being pushing back the dates

00:42:56 Ah, okay, got it got it and so

00:43:06 You do it seems like you blame your mom less or hold her less accountable for your childhood than your dad is that right?

00:43:14 Um, yeah

00:43:16 And i'm happy to hear the reasoning for that, uh for me all adults are responsible for everything

00:43:23 Right, there's no I get to tip things over to the other person i'm the victim like that's not a thing when you're an adult

00:43:31 Yeah, because it's just sort of a logical thing like if being a victim

00:43:41 Means you don't have any responsibility and can't be held accountable then children should never be punished

00:43:46 I mean because children don't have freedom. They I wouldn't say they're victims by definition, but they certainly don't control their environment. They don't control

00:43:54 Their parenting they don't control their education. They don't have any legal or economic independence

00:43:59 so if

00:44:01 Being a victim means you're not responsible

00:44:03 or

00:44:06 If

00:44:09 If you can claim victimhood and therefore you're not responsible

00:44:13 Then your mother should have never had you guys punished by anyone or anything

00:44:18 Because

00:44:21 She can say well i'm not responsible for my environment

00:44:23 Okay, even if we accept that that's true. It's got to be almost infinitely more true for children, right?

00:44:28 Yeah, so the fact that she supported

00:44:32 And and married into and gave children to

00:44:36 Uh an aggressive guy to put it as nicely as possible

00:44:40 means that

00:44:42 She did not believe in

00:44:44 In victimhood and and you as children, I assume you and your brothers were held

00:44:47 Responsible for what you did, right?

00:44:50 As you said you you got hit or or punished when you were behaving, you know quote badly and this happened to your

00:44:58 younger brother

00:45:00 a lot or a fair amount

00:45:02 So you as children were held 100% responsible and your mother agreed with that, right?

00:45:06 Because she married the guy who inflicted that and she also inflicted it herself, right?

00:45:10 Yeah, so how do you hold children 100% responsible to the point where you can hit them?

00:45:16 And then claim to be a victim as an adult who had all the choices in the world

00:45:21 Um

00:45:26 That's why I asked if your mother was pretty because you know an attractive woman. I mean i'm sure you understand this, right?

00:45:32 Probably better than I'm sure better than I do but an attractive woman

00:45:35 Has all the choice in the world about who she marries, right

00:45:39 Yeah

00:45:42 So how is it that you as children got punished?

00:45:46 Because you were in control of your own behavior

00:45:49 but

00:45:52 The woman who punished you and married into the punishment scenario and enabled it and kept you there

00:45:57 Is a victim. Um, um, um, if you can help me sort that out, I appreciate it

00:46:02 I

00:46:04 I'm

00:46:07 I'm not really sure because she's just learned how to be like that

00:46:12 Is from my understanding and she just never recognized

00:46:17 That that's a bad way to approach things

00:46:22 Uh, no, no, she supported you and your brothers getting punished, right

00:46:31 Yeah, so holding people responsible for their actions and punishing them when they do wrong she's totally down with that, right

00:46:39 I mean that that's

00:46:43 She married a punishing guy, right? And she herself punished you and your brothers and sometimes violently, right?

00:46:49 Yeah, okay, so she's fully on board that children are 100 responsible for their behavior, right?

00:46:58 um

00:47:00 Uh, yeah, okay, so how does she

00:47:05 How does she I mean logically right? I understand the strategy, right?

00:47:09 Oh play the victim and everyone forgives me and blah blah blah, right? Nobody holds me accountable and it's really weasley

00:47:14 Right, it's it's one thing to say to children

00:47:18 Well, you're not responsible for any of your behavior

00:47:20 So i'm never going to punish you

00:47:22 And then as an adult you say well i'm not responsible for any of my behavior

00:47:25 So you can't hold me accountable or get mad at me or punish me

00:47:28 But what's really weasley is to punish children for their 100% responsibility for their behaviors

00:47:33 And then when your children have questions when they grow up and they have questions and they say to you

00:47:38 Well, you did this well, you know, but I didn't know and your father and blah blah blah. I'm a victim

00:47:42 Woe is me right that the stuff that you're you were saying to me about your mother and her childhood and so on

00:47:47 That's totally weasley

00:47:51 Hold children 100 responsible

00:47:53 When children grow up and try and hold you somewhat accountable. You're suddenly the victim who was not responsible

00:47:59 Yeah

00:48:04 I mean, are you responsible for what you do as a mother?

00:48:06 Yeah, I think so, right

00:48:09 So how is your mother not responsible

00:48:13 She would be responsible

00:48:17 But what would she say

00:48:21 If you were to point out

00:48:23 That she's 100% responsible

00:48:25 for you and your

00:48:27 brothers

00:48:29 Having an angry father

00:48:31 Um

00:48:35 She

00:48:40 Guess she would say i'm sorry. I didn't mean that to happen

00:48:45 Is

00:48:53 I usually uh, I wouldn't really tell her that because I

00:48:57 I don't she would get super emotional and I don't really want to be around her

00:49:05 When what do you mean so first of all

00:49:08 If

00:49:12 She would say i'm sorry for I get virtually a quarter century of aggression against you from your father

00:49:18 Well, first of all who cares like there's no point saying i'm sorry after a quarter century almost right

00:49:23 and secondly

00:49:26 Were you allowed to say i'm sorry as a kid and therefore not get punished

00:49:31 No, no, so the i'm sorry is just a ploy it's a maneuver right it's it there's nothing sincere about it

00:49:38 There's nothing real about it and there's nothing loving about it, right?

00:49:41 Because your mother is modeling to you

00:49:46 Weasley get out of jail free manipulative behavior

00:49:49 Well, that's not good for you, right

00:49:53 No, because if your mother plays the victim that's going to infect you it's going to infect your daughter or try to right yeah

00:50:02 Okay, so if you try to hold your mother accountable

00:50:07 I should get super emotional. And what would that look like? What would that mean?

00:50:12 um

00:50:16 She would

00:50:18 She would uh

00:50:26 Start apologizing and saying she didn't really mean it and that you know, she she doesn't

00:50:33 She didn't know better at the time and all that stuff and I usually I'd

00:50:41 Uh, i'm, sorry. She didn't know what at the time

00:50:45 Didn't know or she

00:50:47 She didn't know what to do at the time

00:50:56 I usually uh block her like stop listening at that point because

00:51:09 It felt hollow

00:51:13 You

00:51:15 Sorry, what do you mean by hollow she it was

00:51:21 It was her kind of uh

00:51:29 Ignoring

00:51:32 Her responsibility

00:51:34 That's that's what it felt like. So I yeah, so she she pretends she didn't know what to do at the time, right?

00:51:40 Yeah, right. But okay. So let me try this if you don't mind being your mom for a sec

00:51:44 I just want to make sure I understand the mindset

00:51:46 So if i'm you and I say, you know mom I got some real issues about how we were raised and I you know

00:51:53 I every time I bring them up you keep doing this like helpless act, right?

00:51:57 And it really bothers me

00:52:01 So you chose to date get engaged to get married to and give children to and keep children around

00:52:09 A pretty aggressive guy who was sometimes violent and you were sometimes violent

00:52:14 And

00:52:17 now

00:52:19 But that the divorce is is going on you seem to be like full of relief or like thank goodness that's over or

00:52:24 put that in the past, but

00:52:26 We didn't have that choice as kids. Like I guess my question is why didn't you do?

00:52:31 Really anything to protect us or certainly more?

00:52:34 Um

00:52:36 I'm not really sure what she would say. Yes, you are. I'm sure you would have an instinct as to what she would say

00:52:55 um

00:52:58 I mean all that comes to mind is i'm, sorry

00:53:03 I

00:53:05 That's well, so then I would say mom did I ask you for an apology

00:53:10 No, no, okay, so why don't you listen to what i'm asking for why didn't you

00:53:17 Do more or really anything to protect us? In fact, you hit us, too

00:53:22 And you let a guy call me a lazy bitch

00:53:27 Hang around and and you know, my brother got hit a lot more than I did like I don't understand

00:53:32 Why didn't you do something to protect your children?

00:53:35 And why did you marry him in the first place you knew he had an a rage problem

00:53:45 Like how dare you marry a guy

00:53:49 And let him yell at call names and hit your children and participate in that hitting you're not a victim here

00:53:57 You're you were a pretty young woman you could have dated just didn't marry just about anybody

00:54:03 Like I don't understand how our family was what it was

00:54:08 And that's your choice

00:54:11 Because

00:54:14 As a pretty woman a young woman

00:54:17 You had a lot of options

00:54:20 Men will ask anything out with a pulse

00:54:25 And this is the guy you chose

00:54:27 You chose an angry guy very angry guy

00:54:30 You gave him children

00:54:35 and you

00:54:36 Not only failed to protect those children

00:54:38 but

00:54:39 You participated in the violence. I don't know

00:54:42 And i'm terrified i'm scared right because you make these bad decisions. You don't seem to take any responsibility

00:54:48 And and that's that's in my system because of you right that that's worked its way into my system

00:54:55 So I need to understand your thinking

00:54:58 Both in the dating and the marrying in the like what the heck was going on that?

00:55:03 This was my childhood and the childhood of my brothers

00:55:05 I think she would say, um, I thought I could fix him

00:55:14 Your partner say that before

00:55:24 So you're thirsty

00:55:26 Yeah

00:55:30 Okay

00:55:32 Did you needed to be a guy of rage?

00:55:34 Also, you did him and you couldn't fix him. Why get married to him?

00:55:38 If you married him but couldn't fix him

00:55:41 Why give children to him if you gave children to him and couldn't fix him? Why?

00:55:45 I mean if i've if i've got a car in the driveway i've been spending

00:55:50 20 years trying to fix this car. Does that sound sane?

00:55:53 No

00:55:58 So i'd really appreciate it if you kind of dig deep and give me honest answers rather than whatever this is

00:56:07 You

00:56:10 You

00:56:12 You

00:56:15 You

00:56:17 You

00:56:19 You

00:56:48 Yes

00:56:50 Yeah

00:56:52 You

00:56:54 You

00:56:56 You

00:57:24 So if I understand she'd just get quiet and cry

00:57:27 Yeah, okay

00:57:30 Right. So then I would say so mom

00:57:32 Shake it off. Stop making this about you. This is about me

00:57:36 Right, it's not about your tears or your self-pity or your unhappiness focus on me

00:57:43 Because

00:57:47 You want a relationship with me which you're not getting from my brother. You want a relationship with me

00:57:52 Based upon the fact that you're my mother

00:57:54 Because you know, i'll be honest man I want to be straight with you, right look

00:58:01 If you were just some woman in my neighborhood or some woman I met at a dinner party

00:58:07 Or some woman I

00:58:12 Saw at the gym or at the mall or had some conversations with here and there

00:58:16 And I found out. Oh, yeah this woman

00:58:20 um, she has three kids the kids were aggressed against pretty terribly and

00:58:25 The names were called and she didn't protect them and this and that and the other do you think i'd be friends with this person?

00:58:31 No, right

00:58:35 So you're saying

00:58:38 No, no, you have to give me special considerations

00:58:41 Because i'm your mother, right?

00:58:45 because

00:58:46 if you were just some

00:58:49 person

00:58:51 I mean

00:58:53 We probably wouldn't be friends, right

00:58:56 In fact, i'm certain we wouldn't right? Okay. So you have a relationship with me

00:59:01 Or you want a relationship with me?

00:59:04 Because you're my mother

00:59:07 It's a magical golden sticker that it affixes to you so that I have to spend time with you, right

00:59:17 Now I would say that one of the mother's primary jobs would you agree is to protect your children

00:59:23 Yes, okay, did you succeed at that job or not so much?

00:59:29 No

00:59:32 Okay

00:59:34 So you have to talk to me about this

00:59:37 Because otherwise if you won't acknowledge that you failed in your primary duty as a mother

00:59:44 Then you don't get the golden sticker called mother anymore and I judge you as just another person

00:59:49 Which is I think kind of what my brother's doing

00:59:53 To be honest, I think she's she's saying okay. I mean he's probably not saying consciously but at some level he's saying okay, so

01:00:00 My mother wants special considerations as a mother but won't fulfill

01:00:05 Or hasn't fulfilled the basic duties of motherhood, right?

01:00:09 I mean to take an extreme example, right if some woman

01:00:14 Abandons her child when the child is three days old

01:00:17 And then lives a whole life apart from her child and then when the

01:00:22 mother the biological mother

01:00:25 gets old

01:00:27 she contacts

01:00:29 the child she abandoned at the age of

01:00:31 Three days and says you have to take me in and you have to take care of me because I have dementia

01:00:37 Uh-huh

01:00:40 Would that be something that you think the child should do?

01:00:43 No, but why not

01:00:45 Because she never raised the child she abandoned them

01:00:52 She wasn't she did not fulfill the duties of motherhood, right?

01:00:56 I know that you were there. I know that you were home. I know that you care about my brothers and I so i'm just saying

01:01:03 add an extreme example

01:01:05 That biological mother

01:01:11 Would not get the gold star called motherhood that guarantees a relationship, right?

01:01:14 Yes, right

01:01:17 Now

01:01:19 You knew that we were unhappy. You knew that I was scared of dad, especially from the age of 14 or onwards

01:01:24 You knew that we weren't getting along

01:01:25 You knew that my dad had this distance thing and he'd get really

01:01:28 Angry if he was in a good mood and it was scary like you knew all of this, right?

01:01:32 Yeah

01:01:35 And what did you do

01:01:37 Ignored it

01:01:40 right

01:01:42 Thus failing to protect your children. Yes, right. Why?

01:01:47 I mean you want me to love you right as a mother

01:02:00 But a mother also has to love her child

01:02:03 Has to love her children and one of the ways one of the main ways

01:02:07 That a mother shows her love for her children and a father too, but we're talking to you not dad, right?

01:02:11 So one of the main ways that a mother

01:02:13 Shows love for her children is to protect them

01:02:17 Yeah, I mean you have a granddaughter now

01:02:22 Yeah, your husband if my father

01:02:25 Somehow was in contact with babysitting. My granddaughter like your granddaughter my child my daughter

01:02:32 and

01:02:35 Was calling her a lazy goddamn bitch

01:02:38 Would you do anything about it

01:02:42 Or if

01:02:52 If dad was babysitting my daughter

01:02:54 And my daughter was making too much noise for his majesty's comfort

01:02:58 Would you also hit my daughter with a wooden spoon?

01:03:03 To keep her quiet and not anger dad

01:03:06 Because I would never accept my father doing that to my daughter you understand

01:03:24 Yeah, I would never allow that to happen. In fact, that's one of the reasons i'm not talking to him

01:03:30 That will not allow that to happen

01:03:33 uh-huh

01:03:34 Would you?

01:03:36 Would you let your ex-husband call my daughter a lazy bitch

01:03:49 No, well, what about if he wanted to hit her with a belt

01:03:55 Would you be like yep sounds good to me i'll hold her down

01:04:02 No, why not

01:04:04 Why is my daughter so much more important than I am why is my daughter worthy of protection but your daughter wasn't mom

01:04:32 Why is my daughter worthy of protection

01:04:34 And you

01:04:39 Wouldn't lift a finger to protect your own children

01:04:41 Make it make sense make it make sense. I'm happy to hear it. It doesn't make sense. Okay, so

01:04:58 So you would protect my daughter

01:05:00 But not me you didn't protect me and now I have no need of protection. You understand. I have no need of protection

01:05:07 Right, yeah, so what binds us?

01:05:12 What binds us

01:05:16 Shared history, I mean we could have we could have had that if we were in a jail cell together

01:05:22 Which I guess we kind of were in a way except you chose it

01:05:24 so what

01:05:27 What bonds us is it virtue?

01:05:29 Is it the fact that we are similar in our parenting styles, nope

01:05:35 Is it that I respect you for your moral courage and integrity nope

01:05:44 Because it's not so much that you did bad things mom, it's that's

01:05:49 We've all done bad things, right? It's not so much that you did bad things

01:05:52 It's that you won't take a shred of responsibility now

01:05:58 You just cry and self-pity and weasel and make excuses. This is the part that's really turning my stomach

01:06:04 Because we're not talking about what happened when I was 5 or 10 or 15

01:06:08 We talked about we're talking about what's happening right now in the moment as we speak

01:06:13 Because if you don't take responsibility for this it harms me

01:06:25 Yes

01:06:27 I was explaining my childhood to someone the other day and I said well we pushed the envelope we went too far

01:06:32 we were quote bad we

01:06:34 Provoked, you know, and i'm like I get it. I still I still blame you myself

01:06:38 Why was I hit as a child was that my fault? Nope. Was it dad's fault? Yep. Was it your fault? Yes

01:06:45 Yes, it was let's say that dad was out of control of his temper

01:06:53 Right, okay. Yeah, so what?

01:06:55 And we go to some petting zoo and there's some

01:07:00 Pig that keeps chewing on my leg and you're like well the pig's not in control of its behavior. I'm not going to bother doing anything

01:07:07 Let's say the dad has no functional control of his temper

01:07:12 Well, you chose to marry him chose to give him children chose to keep that children around him

01:07:19 And you're like, well, what am I supposed to do?

01:07:22 What am I supposed to do?

01:07:26 What am I supposed to do?

01:07:30 What am I supposed to respect in this?

01:07:34 And you mom

01:07:41 You're like well dad rolled over and hit me in his sleep. So i'm moving to another bedroom

01:07:49 And you're like well dad, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:07:52 I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:07:56 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:01 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:06 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:12 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:17 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:20 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:25 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:30 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:34 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:38 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room. I'm moving to another room

01:08:42 And you're like well, I'm moving to another room

01:08:46 Yeah

01:08:48 So she'd just go rubber bones, right?

01:08:50 Yeah, because she would yeah, okay. Well, that's fine. Then then she's actively

01:08:55 burdening you

01:08:58 Because she's not lifting up she didn't say it never was your fault. It was 100% me

01:09:02 Or even it was 90% me right so she won't lift that burden off you

01:09:08 So she's still failing to protect you even now see it's not about the past

01:09:14 None of this stuff is really about the past

01:09:16 The question is have any lessons been learned

01:09:22 Not sure doesn't seem to be

01:09:28 Now

01:09:34 She's on the receiving end of your father's temper

01:09:36 And has been for the past four years or so that the divorce has been going on. He's been kind of raging at her, right?

01:09:43 Yeah

01:09:44 And she finds this unbearable

01:09:46 Yeah

01:09:50 She's very sensitive you see

01:09:52 As to how your father's temper affects her her kids well

01:09:57 He makes good money. It's a nice house

01:10:00 Yeah

01:10:09 I mean i'll tell you this and this sounds harsh. It could be unfair

01:10:12 But this is the way I view it in my gut which doesn't mean i'm, right

01:10:14 Uh-huh

01:10:17 if your mother

01:10:19 Took money from neighbors because they enjoyed the sight

01:10:21 Of their dogs biting you that would be pretty horrible, right?

01:10:25 Yeah

01:10:27 Hey, i'll give you 50 bucks. I just want to see my pit bull chew on your kids legs for a few seconds

01:10:33 But how is that different from taking money from a man

01:10:39 And a nice house and all he has to do is mow the kids from time to time

01:10:46 It's not that different if they you know, if she entered in you into fight club for kids to make money

01:10:56 That would be pretty repulsive, right

01:11:00 Yeah, but taking money from a man and in a sense in exchange

01:11:07 Because if she'd said to your father

01:11:09 You cannot touch these kids and you certainly cannot call them names that's absolutely

01:11:14 Unacceptable you do that one more time

01:11:17 I'm leaving you

01:11:20 right

01:11:21 That might have actually helped it might have

01:11:23 Because as you said when your father was younger, I was really struck by this, right?

01:11:28 Sorry, I don't mean to say struck by things about your father because

01:11:31 but

01:11:33 When your father was younger, he was less angry. That's volatile, right?

01:11:37 Less than right. Yeah, okay

01:11:39 So he might have been able he might have gone to anger management. He might have right taken some therapy

01:11:44 He might have like when he was younger, right?

01:11:46 A little bit. Yeah. Well, I mean he got as far as I understand it

01:11:51 Five to ten times more angry in terms of it went from once a month to sometimes daily, right?

01:12:00 Yeah

01:12:04 So that could be five ten up to thirty times more angry, right

01:12:08 Yeah now

01:12:12 If you want to stop an addiction it's a lot easier to start it to stop it early, right

01:12:17 Yes, and so if your father has an addictive problem with anger

01:12:23 Then if your mother had took a stand when you were younger or if you said to him, listen, you're a great guy

01:12:32 Tall handsome, whatever but I can't marry you because of your temper like you have to deal with your temper

01:12:39 Right, yeah, what would have happened

01:12:45 Um probably would have been not been married

01:12:50 Maybe or maybe your father would have been like

01:12:54 Oh gosh

01:12:57 I really I really love this woman

01:12:59 i'm gonna have to go and

01:13:01 Deal with my temper

01:13:03 Yeah

01:13:05 But she didn't

01:13:09 And the reason she would have done that of course is obviously she was attracted to your father

01:13:19 But she would have said that because he's like listen I can choose to marry a guy with rage problems

01:13:30 But it absolutely cannot bring children into that environment because they don't have a choice

01:13:34 I don't know. Maybe they have I hate to sort of be right. Maybe they have great makeup sex

01:13:41 Maybe she's really turned on by rage. I don't know whatever weird stuff goes on in people's brains and loins

01:13:46 But you can't choose that for your children

01:13:57 Like maybe maybe some people find it very sexually exciting to get beaten with a whip but you can't choose that for your children

01:14:03 No, so she would say listen I can't get married to you

01:14:07 because

01:14:09 The children like I care about kids. I want my kids to be happy and my kids will be too too terrorized by your temper

01:14:15 So you're gonna have to go deal with this if you want to marry me

01:14:20 Yeah

01:14:25 You

01:14:27 Now I feel like you've got kind of rubber boats on me

01:14:32 Yeah, i'm not saying you have i'm just saying that's my my experience

01:14:37 Because it's your life. I don't want to do all the talking but tell me so tell me let me sort of check in here

01:14:42 Tell me what you're

01:14:43 thinking and feeling

01:14:45 Um

01:14:53 I guess

01:14:55 I didn't fully realize how much

01:15:06 Like how much my mom screwed up

01:15:10 Well, if it's any consolation we really do

01:15:14 Yeah, I mean this i've said this before you've you've probably heard it like there's always one parent who gets away, right

01:15:22 Yeah

01:15:24 Why did your brother cut contact with her

01:15:39 Because she

01:15:50 Never took responsibility for herself through the marriage

01:15:55 And a lot and allowed us it allowed my dad to

01:16:01 Punish us and

01:16:05 Rag on us without stopping it

01:16:10 And you and the reason i'm asking all of this in fact the whole

01:16:19 hour

01:16:20 20 that we've been talking the reason for this

01:16:23 Is because as far as I understand it you very desperately need to have credibility with your brother, right?

01:16:30 Yes, because your brother's marrying the wrong girl, right?

01:16:34 Yes, right

01:16:37 So all of this is me working feverishly to try and give you credibility with your brother

01:16:42 Yes

01:16:48 So, why don't you have credibility with your brother

01:16:50 I guess because we don't we don't really talk about what happened, right? Why doesn't he talk about what happened?

01:17:07 Because

01:17:11 We weren't really

01:17:17 We weren't really allowed to no, no, you're no you're adults you can do it now, right?

01:17:21 Why doesn't your brother talk about you? I mean he's talked about it with your mother, right?

01:17:25 No

01:17:30 So he just cut off your mother

01:17:32 Yes without talking to her

01:17:34 And without even establishing whether she was going to take any responsibility at all. That seems I mean could be but it seems unlikely

01:17:46 Well, he

01:17:48 I mean he still

01:17:50 Talks

01:17:52 To to her like he'll have dinner with her and stuff, but he won't

01:17:58 Oh, i'm so sorry. I misunderstood. I thought that you'd broken with your father and he'd broken with your mother

01:18:03 I'm sure that was my misunderstanding. So i'm sorry for that

01:18:06 Okay, so he hasn't talked to your mother and he hasn't cut off contact with your mother

01:18:10 No, he just he still

01:18:15 occasionally talk

01:18:17 I'll get it. So then your mother doesn't know that there's oh no, but your mother says that there's a problem, right?

01:18:22 Yes, but he's he's grown a lot more distant, but he still will still uh

01:18:29 He'll

01:18:31 I guess like say hi or have dinner but won't talk about anything. Okay, like index now

01:18:38 Um has your brother have you and your brother talked much about your childhood?

01:18:44 No, why not

01:18:46 Um, i'm not accusing I made that sound why not I don't mean that in an accusatory way i'm just i'm curious

01:18:52 Um

01:18:56 Uh, it just

01:19:01 Most of the time it it never occurred to me to ask like how he feels

01:19:08 about it

01:19:11 And we don't really we don't connect on that. We don't connect super emotionally. We just but why not? I mean

01:19:19 I know why don't you talk about your childhood? It's an emotional topic. We don't connect emotionally, but why not?

01:19:25 Uh, i've been scared. Uh, i'm scared to do it. Okay, so that's listen. I appreciate that. That's very that's very blunt

01:19:33 It's very frank and that's true, right? You're scared to do it and I I appreciate that and I sympathize with that

01:19:38 So, uh, you know my next annoying question, right?

01:19:41 Uh-huh, why are you scared to do it?

01:19:43 I mean, how do you know that your brother's criticism is of your mother that she doesn't take responsibility?

01:19:53 Has he said that to you or?

01:19:56 No, well, how do you know?

01:20:00 I I don't really know i'm just kind of assuming

01:20:09 Oh, okay, so that's an assumption, okay got it kind of important to know

01:20:15 Okay

01:20:20 So has your brother talked to you about you not talking to your father

01:20:24 No, well

01:20:28 Does he know?

01:20:30 Yeah, he does know and how you so you said i'm not talking to dad

01:20:34 Yes. Okay. And what did he say?

01:20:38 Uh

01:20:40 Well at the time I was pregnant so he said you should probably tell like you don't have to tell my dad

01:20:46 But you should probably tell

01:20:48 Grandma that you're pregnant

01:20:50 And that's all he said

01:20:52 Okay, right

01:20:55 So your brother is still in contact with your father, right?

01:21:02 I know we're talking about one of your brothers like he doesn't exist, but I think we just have to go with with one, right?

01:21:06 Yeah

01:21:08 Yeah, he's still okay. So

01:21:10 He's still he's still in contact with with your dad and has no particular issues that you know of with your childhood

01:21:17 Like he's not said to you

01:21:19 childhood was

01:21:21 Bad because of x y and z like you have you haven't talked about your childhood. Is that right?

01:21:25 No, we no we don't we haven't

01:21:29 Okay, so how on earth are you going to expect to have any credibility with your brother

01:21:35 I

01:21:37 That's what i'm trying to figure out well have we come to some kind of answer

01:21:42 I guess we should start we should talk about it

01:21:47 Well, you've broken off contact with your father which is a very big deal and your brother has said nothing about it

01:21:56 Which means that your communication lines

01:22:00 are

01:22:02 Closed to anything except the most inconsequential nonsense if I understand this correctly

01:22:07 Yeah news weather updates gossip, whatever, right?

01:22:12 Yeah, okay

01:22:15 So why

01:22:18 Would you have any influence?

01:22:20 On your brother when as the older sister

01:22:23 You have a significant

01:22:26 Influence and certainly when you were younger

01:22:30 You your actions defined the relationship, right?

01:22:33 Yeah, okay

01:22:36 So, why won't you talk to your brother you say scared I get that but scared of what

01:22:45 And i'm not saying your fears are unjustified or unreal. I'm just curious like what are you scared of?

01:22:52 I'm scared that he will

01:22:59 Uh

01:23:01 Close close me off. No, you already closed off. Try again

01:23:07 I'm scared that he will

01:23:11 Ignore me

01:23:14 He's already ignoring you try again

01:23:16 Like you already closed off and ignoring each other's experience, right?

01:23:21 Yeah

01:23:27 I mean say well, why don't you try turning on that tap? Well, i'm afraid I won't get any water

01:23:30 Well, you're already not getting any water. So

01:23:32 Gotta be something else

01:23:36 Can I ask it another way yeah. All right who in your family

01:23:44 Has the most risk if you and your brother get close and talk about your childhoods

01:23:51 Whose interests are going to be the least served if that happens?

01:23:56 Uh, my parents

01:23:58 Yes, that's correct. That is you win the prize. Yes, that's correct. So what happens if you and your brother?

01:24:03 get together

01:24:06 And talk about your childhoods

01:24:10 Uh

01:24:15 We see that our parents, uh

01:24:24 Both uh did terrible things to us

01:24:26 Okay, and that means that you're probably going to go have conversations with your parents, right

01:24:33 Yeah now do your parents want you?

01:24:36 To have those conversations with them

01:24:39 No, right

01:24:42 right

01:24:44 Because then you'll see

01:24:47 If if it does happen, it's happened with your mother in the role play

01:24:50 You'll see this kind of weaseliness and avoidance of responsibility and manipulation and selfishness

01:24:55 Yes

01:24:58 I mean imagine this uh just to picture what because i'm not sure if i've made this point clear and that

01:25:03 My deficiency not yours, right?

01:25:06 so imagine

01:25:09 I

01:25:12 Lose my daughter's tablet

01:25:14 Which she draws on and and so on cares a lot about the tablet, right? I lose my daughter's tablet

01:25:20 But then I convince her that she lost it

01:25:24 And call her careless and lazy besides

01:25:28 That would be pretty terrible, right? Yes

01:25:35 Right. I would be blaming my daughter for something I lost

01:25:42 Yes now whether I lose her tablet or my temper does it matter

01:25:49 If I lose my temper and I blame her for my loss of temper

01:25:54 That's even worse than blaming her for the tablet, right? At least the tablet's just a physical thing

01:25:57 She probably got to back up and compete. You know what I mean?

01:26:00 Yeah

01:26:03 So if I blame my daughter when I know that i've lost the tablet

01:26:10 I am

01:26:14 Continuing to burden her

01:26:19 Particularly if I

01:26:20 Make it a moral thing. Oh, you never take care of your things. You're just so careless

01:26:24 I've told you once i've told you a thousand whatever, right?

01:26:26 Yeah, if I make the loss of that tablet a defining element

01:26:31 Of her fundamental flaws as a human being when I lost it

01:26:35 That would be about as terrible a thing as you could do, right? Yes

01:26:41 Do you know what a burden it would be

01:26:47 off her shoulders

01:26:49 If I were to confess at some point i'm so sorry

01:26:53 I went kind of crazy there. It's absolutely wrong. I lost your tablet

01:26:57 You didn't lose it. You're not careless

01:27:00 You do take care of your things

01:27:04 It's my fault completely. Do you get a sense of what would be lifted off her shoulders?

01:27:09 Yes

01:27:13 Now she'd be mad at me and she should be

01:27:15 Because that'd be a terrible thing to do

01:27:17 but

01:27:18 If I care about my daughter

01:27:20 at all

01:27:23 I will tell her the truth

01:27:25 Yeah that I lost her tablet not her

01:27:27 Yeah

01:27:31 So

01:27:34 If your mother every literally this is like a an hourglass in my brain

01:27:38 every single minute that your

01:27:43 Mother is awake that she doesn't pick up the phone and say that that was on me. Not you

01:27:47 She's having you struggle under this burden

01:27:52 That she put on you

01:27:56 Yeah, no, you're not there it's not a yeah thing. This is a more of a thunderclap

01:28:02 Yeah, right

01:28:05 Yes

01:28:07 She's having you carry the burden

01:28:11 Of the violence and dysfunction that was done to you as a child rather than taking ownership of it herself. She would rather her children

01:28:18 carry the burden

01:28:20 Then she accept responsibility

01:28:22 She'd rather hurt you than take ownership

01:28:25 And continue to do so

01:28:29 And your father also let's not let him off the hook

01:28:34 Right every single moment of every single

01:28:37 waking day

01:28:39 That your father is not picking up the phone and saying you know what?

01:28:41 I have a real problem with my temper. I can really see this over the course of this divorce

01:28:45 I was wrong and I called you names. I lost my temper. You weren't bad. You went wrong. That's 100% me

01:28:53 I regret it more than I can possibly express

01:28:56 What can I do to make it better? I'm gonna i'm gonna go to anger management

01:29:01 You never have to talk to me again. I'm gonna go there. I'd love it

01:29:03 If we could i'm gonna pay for you to do some therapy i'm gonna

01:29:07 Whatever right?

01:29:09 That would be to lift a burden, right? Yes

01:29:14 My father died never telling me that

01:29:20 My father

01:29:25 Took this

01:29:30 Absolution to me to the grave with him

01:29:36 My father at any time, I mean the guy was retired for 20 years

01:29:40 He could have at any time phoned me up and said

01:29:45 The mess that was on your childhood was entirely upon me and your mother

01:29:49 You were responsible for none of it. You were an innocent victim. I'm, so sorry

01:29:54 But he wouldn't do that

01:30:05 He would rather me carry the burden than him accept responsibility

01:30:08 Yeah

01:30:14 And it seems to me that that's what your parents are doing as well

01:30:17 Yes

01:30:23 And that's going to have an effect on your relationship with your daughter

01:30:27 Yeah

01:30:33 Because we can't live two opposite ways, right if I say go north and south at the same time you'd say I can't right

01:30:39 Yeah

01:30:42 if I say

01:30:43 You as a parent are 100 responsible for your actions, but your parents are not

01:30:47 That's asking you to go north and south at the same time

01:30:51 it tears you in two well more than two, but

01:30:58 But if you want to help your brother and i'm i'm moved beyond words that you do and I think it's wonderful that you do

01:31:04 If you want to help your brother

01:31:06 You don't want to be like the parents of those teenage kids, right

01:31:13 who

01:31:15 Barely talk to their kids and just snap at them to clean up the room and take out the garbage and do the dishes and

01:31:19 Do your homework and this that and the other?

01:31:21 And then the parents like gee we haven't talked in a while. They sit down and say okay. Let's talk

01:31:27 Yeah

01:31:29 I mean

01:31:30 I went for a nice long brunch with my daughter today because it's really really important to stay in communication

01:31:35 Yeah

01:31:39 But you don't just try and jam communication in at the end without credibility ahead of time

01:31:43 Yes

01:31:46 Like if your doctor says hey, she's been a great doctor for like 20 years your health is great

01:31:54 She's always helped you avoid illness and she says oh, you know, i've got your blood work

01:31:58 You should do this or that or the other you'll be like, okay, right

01:32:01 Yep, right. You've had a great dentist. They say you need to floss the back, but i've still had my wisdom teeth

01:32:06 So i still got to floss the back like crazy, right?

01:32:08 I'm, like one of a thousand adults who still has their wisdom teeth

01:32:10 So my dentist says floss in the back more i'm like you bet get a water pick, uh, get a like a

01:32:16 Water sprayer and yes, I absolutely right because a good dentist, right?

01:32:22 Yep

01:32:24 But if some guy

01:32:25 On the street stops me and says you're eating too many oranges. I'm like, okay crazy person back away slowly, please

01:32:31 Yeah

01:32:33 so if you want your

01:32:35 Brother to listen to you. You have to have credibility and you can't have credibility

01:32:39 By serving your parents and avoiding

01:32:44 Conversations with your brother

01:32:49 to appease your brother

01:32:51 To appease your mother fundamentally because I don't think you care that much about appeasing your father anymore because you're not in contact with him

01:32:56 but your mother doesn't want you like

01:32:58 You're afraid of talking to your brother because your mother's afraid of you

01:33:02 talking to your brother and you don't want to displease your mother for reasons of you know, we all have that I don't want to

01:33:07 Anger my parents too much because uh, they might abandon me and i'm gonna die right? That's our evolution, right?

01:33:15 But your brother I guarantee you I can't guarantee you sorry I I'd like to guarantee you that your brother

01:33:21 Deep down he instinctively knows that you're aligned with your mother at his expense

01:33:27 Because you being in possession of the truth about your family and now responsible now responsible

01:33:34 They're right

01:33:35 And this is why you who whoever increases in knowledge increases in sorrow because you have a responsibility to lift the burden from your brother

01:33:42 right

01:33:43 Yeah, because you know the truth about your childhood

01:33:46 At least the painful part so you now have an obligation and your brother deep down he knows you're going through this process

01:33:53 You've split with your father. He knows that you become a mother yourself

01:33:57 I'm sure there've been hints and bits and barbs dropped around here and there so he knows you're going through a personal

01:34:02 Re-evaluation and an evaluation of your parents and you're coming to some moral conclusions. So

01:34:08 Are you helping him with all of your knowledge?

01:34:12 No, no, why not because it would upset your mother and your father

01:34:17 Yeah

01:34:21 So he doesn't want to listen to you because you're still sacrificing him

01:34:26 To appease your parents and I bet you it's not the first time that's happened

01:34:31 No

01:34:33 No, it's not so you

01:34:35 Want him to listen to you? You've got to show the value of your courage

01:34:40 Because you want him to do something courageous not marry the wrong girl. You got a

01:34:43 Model courageousness, right? If you want to be a personal trainer, you can't be 300 pounds

01:34:48 Yeah

01:34:52 And he's not going to believe you care about him

01:34:59 If he knows you've been on this personal journey to understand the past and you haven't shared any benefit

01:35:05 With him that I know of

01:35:10 Yeah

01:35:12 Don't withhold from those you care about the benefits of the wisdom you've accumulated in my humble opinion

01:35:25 Yeah

01:35:38 You do that i'd be probably

01:35:41 You

01:35:43 You

01:36:11 Is that a approach that you think might help

01:36:13 I think so. Yeah

01:36:22 Gotta tell him

01:36:33 Right

01:36:37 Because then the power of self-knowledge will become evident to him and the fact that you would be aligned with him

01:36:43 And not your parents

01:36:46 Yeah would uh give you credibility I think

01:36:49 Yes, yeah, that would work

01:36:52 So, what do you think um

01:37:03 Um

01:37:05 The

01:37:11 I should

01:37:19 I should

01:37:23 Talk to him about how both our parents

01:37:29 Uh

01:37:31 Like did horrible things and how

01:37:36 I'm not aligned with either of them and i'm here for him

01:37:45 Him only and

01:37:49 Don't want him to go down

01:37:52 A bad path and end up

01:37:57 Uh

01:37:59 Trapped essentially

01:38:03 I think so. How are you feeling?

01:38:10 Better

01:38:17 Good yeah, because it is very first

01:38:20 I mean you obviously care for your brother enormously to your great credit and I definitely want him to be able to

01:38:25 do

01:38:27 For you for you to have your say and have him listen

01:38:30 Yeah

01:38:33 Is there anything else you wanted to talk about I don't want to you know

01:38:37 Take up your day. I know your parents did get all of that. But is there anything else?

01:38:39 Um

01:38:56 You

01:38:58 I don't think so

01:39:11 Okay, will you keep me posted about how things are going and I really do appreciate your your time today

01:39:17 Yeah, i'll keep you updated yeah, if you of course if your brother wants to talk i'm i'm happy to help if I can

01:39:25 um

01:39:26 So if if that's something that would be of value to him, you can just just let me know

01:39:29 Yeah

01:39:32 All right. Well, listen, thanks emil for the the talk and do keep you posted and have a have a great rest of your day

01:39:36 Yeah, you too. Bye

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