00:00 There was a Centre for Future Work report a few years ago which found that employees
00:07 are working on average 280 hours unpaid overtime per year. And compared to other high-income
00:15 countries, the proportion of Australian workers working very long hours, defined as more than
00:21 50 hours per week, is higher than most other high-income countries. So, overtime is a big
00:28 challenge in Australia particularly.
00:32 Why is this happening?
00:34 Well, I think there are two reasons. The first is that overtime in many jobs, in many industries,
00:43 has kind of been an established part of work. And by this I mean paid overtime. So, in manufacturing,
00:52 in some of the emergency services, for example, in other lines of work, it's quite common
00:58 for people to work more than their standard working hours and to be paid for it. But the
01:03 other reason why we've seen an increase in overtime is because many workers are feeling
01:08 essentially pressured by their employers that they have to, and this is often on an unpaid
01:14 basis.
01:15 We called out to the audience to tell us people's experiences of working overtime and some of
01:21 them, this is how they responded. They said it was crucial for helping their families
01:25 get ahead, that success doesn't come from doing a bare minimum eight-hour day and that
01:32 in some cases there was the freedom to refuse. So, some people clearly find this to be a
01:37 benefit. Is it clear then how a worker negotiates whether that overtime is paid or not and whether
01:44 they have the freedom to decline?
01:47 Well, yes, indeed. For many people, they want to work overtime and that's absolutely their
01:53 right. The law is quite clear on this about what an employee's standard working hours
01:59 are and what a standard work week is. So, the standard work week is a 38-hour week.
02:06 That will differ from employee to employee, from job to job, industry to industry, depending
02:11 upon the nature of work and the nature of people's employment contracts. But it's important
02:17 to ensure for employees that if you are working overtime that you're being paid for it and
02:22 that there is a clear expectation with your employer about the nature of that overtime
02:27 and that this is reflected in the contract that you're signing.
02:31 It is the case too, isn't it, that some jobs are just badly designed?
02:36 Absolutely. So, if an employer is finding that employees in their organisation can't
02:42 get their job done in the hours that they're allocated, then it's important for them to
02:48 review that employee's tasks and to see whether the tasks that they're expected to do can
02:54 be done within the employee's regular working hours. If not, maybe that job needs to be
03:01 redesigned into multiple jobs. Maybe that employee is being asked to attend meetings
03:07 that are not essential for them to attend. That's something that many employees send
03:11 to report, is that the rise of meetings and stretching into their really core activities
03:19 that they need to do is becoming an increasing problem. So, yes, it's very much on employers
03:23 to make sure that employers can get the job done within the allocated time.
03:30 Employers including the Business Council Australia, which lobbies for them, say that there is
03:34 a huge administrative burden and a cost burden to making sure that workers receive all their
03:40 rights at a cost of being able to grow a business. How reasonable an argument do you think that
03:45 is? It's not a very reasonable argument at all.
03:48 The law is clear. It's not that complicated on this issue. Job designed, making sure that
03:54 employees can do the job within the allocated hours is a practice that's become increasingly
04:00 rare in Australia. If we look at the countries where working hours are regulated in a much
04:07 more fair way and balanced way, like the Scandinavian countries, other European countries like France,
04:15 job design is really part of that. Employers, businesses have to manage a whole range of
04:21 complexities associated with their businesses. Working hours isn't really one of them. But
04:26 I mean, the rise of technology and smartphones in particular has allowed employers to create
04:33 in some cases, unreasonable expectations about when employees are expected to work. And we
04:39 need buffers against that so that people can be able to have their time at work when they're
04:45 productive and focused, but they'll also be able to have time away from work where they
04:49 can recharge their batteries and do other things that they need to do, including care
04:53 responsibilities. Is there a generational factor in how different
04:59 age groups respond to these pressures? Because Gen Z is often credited with being quite clear
05:05 about their boundaries and pushing back where they need to. Do we have something to learn
05:09 from Gen Z workers? I think we do. Gen Z workers have often, for
05:16 many of them, never known a workplace which isn't always connected to technology, where
05:23 the boundaries between work and life are much more blurry than in the past. Employers, business
05:30 groups need to recognise that if employees are able to, if they want employees who are
05:34 productive, who are committed to their jobs, who want to stay in their jobs longer term
05:39 to ensure that, to reduce the pressures of things like staff shortages, which often happens
05:44 when people leave their jobs, then people have a very reasonable expectation to be able
05:51 to leave the office, leave the workplace when their standard working hours, when their standard
05:55 work day is finished.
05:56 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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