00:00 we can bring back in at this point Daniel Albertesi. And Daniel, if you heard that what
00:06 Angela said, she mentioned this idea that the rules that apply to other politicians didn't
00:12 always seem to apply to Silvio Berlusconi. And I wonder whether you agree with that and whether,
00:18 you know, in that sense, he was sort of the first modern populist who individuals like Trump
00:25 followed suit. I don't know if Trump was aware of Berlusconi's trajectory, but there are certainly,
00:33 I mean, at the superficial level, there are very many similarities. I mean,
00:36 it's the idea of the saviour who comes from the world of business and says, give me the power
00:43 because I'm not one of them. I'm not a politician and I can do for the country what I did for
00:48 myself. That is an obvious parallel. And also, of course, the problems with the justice system.
00:55 Look, I think that right wing voters had very rational reasons to support Berlusconi. He's the
01:03 one who led the right wing coalition, which with different names and different leaders, but still
01:09 rules Italy today. He was the one who in 1994 brought together the separatists of the Northern
01:16 League with a party that was back then clearly neo-fascist, the social movement, and said,
01:24 OK, you are nationalists, you are separatists, but if we come together with my new party,
01:29 Forza Italia, we can stop the left from governing. And there is more that brings us together than
01:34 what divides us. It took a few years for these parties to really digest this idea, but eventually
01:40 they did. And if we look at today's coalition, it was still Forza Italia, although Berlusconi's
01:46 party is now much diminished. It's still the League, although it has changed, and it's still
01:52 the party which inherits the tradition of neo-fascism and then, of course, has gone through
02:00 a process now to moderate, but which still has a lot of people within it that come from that
02:06 tradition. And that's Brothers of Italy. So Berlusconi has really created something that
02:11 has lasted in Italy and has won election after election. He hasn't won them all. He's also lost
02:17 a few, but the right-wing coalition was his creation. So in this sense, right-wing voters owe
02:23 him a huge debt. On the other hand, however, he never delivered on his promises. He hasn't
02:32 reformed the country, so has to help its economic recovery. Indeed, he was removed in 2011 after
02:39 bringing Italy to the brink of economic collapse, and he never, never decreased the tax burden on
02:45 Italians, which was his promise since 1994. So in terms of his achievements as a leader,
02:52 I'm afraid there is very, very little to show for his time in government.
02:56 Daniele Albertesi, for now, thank you very much indeed for your thoughts on this.
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