- 11 minutes ago
Jeremy White and Joe DiBiase are joined by NFL Insider and creator/editor in chief of Pro Football Talk Mike Florio for his weekly appearance with the guys to talk about all things NFL. They start by discussing the AWFUL night for the Vikings offense that allowed the Bills to find their game and come out on top. Florio explains why he thinks the Vikings NEED to make a huge qb move, or trade away a few big pieces ahead of the deadline.
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00:00Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk, joining us on the Western Hotline.
00:02We chat on Tuesdays, and we'll do that here with Mike Florio.
00:06How about the Ravens? How about the Vikings last night?
00:09Mike, good morning. Jeremy and Joe, was Carson Wentz the worst quarterback
00:12you've ever seen in your life last night?
00:15That was so bad last night.
00:17I think there have been worse performances.
00:20I think somebody had the full-blown blue Tarski 0.0 passer rating at some point.
00:25He was 8.9 last night, and the lateral, that didn't count in the passer rating.
00:34That was a disaster. That was the first sign that this thing wasn't going to work.
00:39Every time the defense does something good, the offense responds by doing something bad.
00:43I've never seen anything like it with a team that is so good defensively
00:47and isn't just bad offensively. They can't function,
00:53and they keep trying to do things that aren't working.
00:56At some point, don't you just hand off on every play?
01:01At some point, don't you just punt on first down?
01:06Wouldn't that better equip you to win the field position battle
01:09than turning the ball over? It really was amazing.
01:12It was weird to think that it was still a competitive game.
01:15Right. Well, Minnesota's defense.
01:17I actually, Mike, got to a place, maybe it's the fourth drive.
01:20Whatever drive the Bills started at their own one-yard line,
01:23I really was saying they should punt on first down.
01:26Just punt it back to them.
01:28They found their way.
01:29But, man, if I'm in Minnesota right now,
01:32I would be so desperate to see my team trade for a quarterback today
01:36because that defense is Super Bowl caliber,
01:38and the offense just couldn't be worse.
01:41Well, and look, I got attracted to the NFL back in 1973
01:44by the Minnesota Vikings.
01:46Chuck Foreman, whose hoodie I wear,
01:47was my first favorite football player,
01:50and somebody up there hit him in the eye with a snowball in 1975,
01:54and I'll never forget it.
01:55But anyway, today's the day that they face a monumental decision,
01:59and I think they have to do one or the other.
02:01They can't do neither.
02:02They either have to move heaven and earth
02:04to find a veteran quarterback,
02:06Kirk Cousins, Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, even Justin Herbert.
02:10Start making the calls.
02:11See who you can bring in to try to make this offense better.
02:14And if you're not going to do that,
02:16then you need to take calls on Justin Jefferson
02:19because you're wasting Justin Jefferson in Minnesota.
02:22He's due to make $30 million next year.
02:24He's going to want to raise.
02:25He's clearly frustrated.
02:26He's never going to come out and say,
02:28I want to be traded,
02:29but I'm sure he'd love to go to a chance
02:31where, number one, they're going to get him the football,
02:32and number two, he's got an opportunity to win a championship.
02:35So they need to do one or the other.
02:37If they do neither,
02:38then they belong in the category of dysfunctional teams
02:41with the Dolphins and the Cardinals
02:43and the teams that never can seem
02:46to find a path to anything positive.
02:49Yeah, Mike, you're kind of talking about go boldly.
02:51Wherever you go, go boldly.
02:52To the top, to the bottom, to the future.
02:55And we're here on Buffalo on trade deadline day.
02:57We watch the Jaguars go boldly,
02:59whether or not you like both their moves, all their moves.
03:01But where are you on the appetite
03:04Brandon Bean should have to add here for the Bills?
03:07I think you need to be selective.
03:09You need to be looking for a good deal that works for you.
03:12And the balance is, how much do we give up?
03:14Because those draft picks are an incredibly valuable commodity.
03:18They became more valuable in the 2011 collective bargaining agreement
03:22because of the rookie wage scale.
03:23You get good, young, cheap, healthy players.
03:29And that is how you build your team,
03:32not by going out and buying up veterans at market value or close to it.
03:36So they've got to be cognizant of that balance.
03:41What do we do?
03:42How do we strike that balance?
03:44And we've seen Brandon Bean err on the side of keeping his draft picks in the past.
03:48Is there a move to be made?
03:50It takes two to make it work.
03:52You've got to have a team that's willing to give up a guy
03:54and a team that's willing to take what you're capable of offering.
04:01You may not be able to make the two circles of the Venn diagram kiss,
04:04but I don't know of anything that they have going on right now.
04:08But you know what?
04:09I don't think anybody knew that the Jaguars were cooking up the move yesterday for Jordan Davis.
04:13So anything can happen at any given time.
04:16Mike, Buda Baker's come up a lot around here in the last 24 hours.
04:20Do you feel like Arizona would move him?
04:23There's a lot of talk about how important he is there,
04:26but also that he might want to go to a contender.
04:29Do you think that it is likely or realistic to think that he could move today?
04:33I think that it is realistic.
04:35Now, look, they reportedly had communication with the Broncos about tight end Trey McBride.
04:41They're not willing to move him.
04:42There aren't many players in the NFL that are truly untradable.
04:46You know, this is the time of year that you hear the insiders report
04:49so-and-so isn't going to be traded.
04:51He's been told he's not going to be traded.
04:53Well, you're only told you're not going to be traded after the team has tried to trade you
04:56and realized they're not going to get an offer that they would take.
04:59There are maybe five or ten guys in the NFL that would never be traded.
05:03I'm going to try to make a list later today if I remember to do it,
05:06and the chances of that happening are slim.
05:08But Josh Allen, right?
05:11Untradable.
05:12Joe Burrow, untradable.
05:14Caleb Williams, untradable.
05:16Patrick Mahomes, untradable.
05:18Miles Garrett, not untradable.
05:20Right.
05:20Because he was traded.
05:21So there aren't many guys that you're never going to trade.
05:26And look at what the Eagles did yesterday.
05:27Jordan Davis.
05:28Oh, we're not going to trade him.
05:29Not that they ever said that.
05:30We didn't know it was on the radar screen.
05:31But here come the Jaguars with an offer for first-round pick and a second-round pick
05:34for a guy who is on the field 52% of the time.
05:37Hell no, you're not going to say no to that.
05:39You're taking that.
05:40So it all comes down to how aggressive the Bills want to be.
05:43And see, I think the problem is, as we're seeing some of these deals that the Jaguars
05:47are doing, that may cause other teams to want too much.
05:50Hey, the market's going on.
05:51It's going to be more expensive to get these guys.
05:53I totally agree.
05:54We even kind of suggested or kicked around the idea of Jacksonville.
05:57If you can overpay and, by doing so, convince every other team to not pay, there might be
06:04something in there.
06:04There might be 3-D chess or Galaxy braining it.
06:06But whatever.
06:07When I saw that price for Jesse Bates, to me, that kind of sets a market for what Buda
06:13Baker, Armani Hooker might be.
06:14These teams out there that are going to be listening to these offers from the Bills or
06:18whoever else, all of a sudden, like, oh, all right.
06:21It's a seller's market, really, right now.
06:23And I think that's real.
06:25There's a lot of politics and PR that go into these moves.
06:27And if you are giving guys away after the Jaguars gave up what they gave up for Bates
06:34and for Davis yesterday, I mean, a 2 and a 5 is what the Giants had on the table for
06:39Jonathan Taylor.
06:40Can the Colts take a 2 and a 5 now for Jonathan Taylor when Jesse Bates was worth a 2
06:45and a
06:455?
06:46I still believe that the Colts are going to take the best offer on the table at 3.45 p
06:50.m.
06:50Eastern today.
06:51You've got to build on that left 15 minutes because you never know when there's going to
06:54be a snafu.
06:55We saw the Browns and the Bengals a few years ago.
06:57They were trying to do a trade for quarterback A.J. McCarron and somebody screwed up and
07:01the trade didn't go through.
07:02So give yourself 15 minutes minimum.
07:04But I think the Colts are going to take the best offer.
07:07But yeah, they're all going to get compared to what the Jaguars did yesterday.
07:10And there may be some teams that are hesitant to take a deal when the question is going to
07:16be from their local media.
07:18That's all you got for that guy after what the Eagles got for Davis and what the Falcons
07:23got for Bates?
07:23Well, you didn't do a very good job.
07:25Do you have a best guess where you think that'll end up being for Taylor?
07:30Well, I'd like to see the Vikings do a package deal for Jonathan Taylor and Daniel Jones.
07:35I mean, if the Colts want to maximize what they get for Taylor, I don't think Daniel Jones
07:40is going to be there next year.
07:41So tuck him into that package and you get more from the Vikings.
07:45So that would be pie in the sky.
07:49I believe that the Packers are in play now that Josh Jacobs has the broken finger.
07:53The Giants, we know, have made the offer.
07:56We know the Giants want him.
07:58The question is, will they have the best offer on the table?
08:00Because I really think it's going to come down to that.
08:03Best offer when the trade deadline rolls around at 4 o'clock Eastern today.
08:07Mike, how active do you expect the Chiefs to be today?
08:09It feels like it's almost a done deal that everybody thinks.
08:13Whatever they do today, what happens today around the league, Kansas City acquiring a
08:19receiver is going to be on that list.
08:21I reported over the weekend, and this is something that we've mentioned a couple of times in the
08:25past eight or nine days.
08:26Brian Thomas Jr. is a player that the Chiefs are interested in, the Steelers, and the Commanders.
08:31And I think the Commanders become an attractive destination for the Jaguars because why do you
08:36want to trade one of your former first-round picks who has shown he's capable of playing
08:41at a high level?
08:42He just doesn't fit in your current offense.
08:44Why do you want to trade him to a contender in the AFC?
08:46Why do you want to trade him to any contender?
08:48You don't want to come across Brian Thomas Jr. later in the year.
08:51So the Commanders would make sense.
08:53And I think the Rams need to pick up the phone.
08:56James Gladstone, the GM of the Jaguars, was a Rams executive.
08:59The Jaguars have given up all these picks.
09:03Here's an opportunity to replenish one.
09:05And the Rams clearly have a need with Devontae Adams on injury reserve with a hamstring injury.
09:10And now Puka Nakua is on IR.
09:11And the Chiefs, I think, they should be doing the same thing.
09:15Brian Thomas Jr.
09:15And they should check in on Justin Jefferson.
09:18These guys call each other all the time.
09:21You know, sometimes whack like it's newsworthy that this team was talking to that team about
09:25they talk, what do the GMs do during the regular season?
09:27You worry about the five guys at the bottom of the roster.
09:30And you're talking to your other colleagues around the league to see what the trade market
09:33is and see what the possibilities are.
09:35If I'm the Chiefs, I'm calling the Vikings and the Jaguars.
09:38If I'm the Rams, I'm calling the Vikings and the Jaguars.
09:41If I'm the 49ers, I may consider calling the Vikings and the Jaguars.
09:45They could use a receiver too.
09:47And they always seem to be willing to make a big move in order to make their team better.
09:50And right now they're one of the best.
09:52Mike Florio, Pro Football Talk, joining us on the Western Hotline.
09:56Mike, thanks very much.
09:56We'll chat again next week.
09:58Guys, have a great week.
09:59All right.
09:59Thanks, Mike.
10:00I learned along the way, maybe last week or two weeks ago, that Mike is a bit of a Vikings
10:04fan.
10:05So like watching last night was, you know, covers the whole league, but likes the Vikings.
10:10And that would have been tough for them.
10:12Yeah.
10:12The, you mentioned the Chuck Foreman snowball thing in there.
10:15I learned of that story this week.
10:16Oh, yeah?
10:17That him and OJ were going for the record in the final game of the season.
10:21And a Bills fan hit him with a snowball and he was out of the game.
10:26At least that's how I heard it.
10:29I wasn't there.
10:30The canopy on the new stadium ensures that the 300, 400 level is less likely to be able to throw
10:35snowballs.
10:37There'll be less snow, Joe.
10:39Oh, okay.
10:39Sorry.
10:39Yes.
10:40Where we sit, we're not going to get snow.
10:42My mind went to, well, wait a minute.
10:44Closer to the field.
10:45You've got that.
10:46Higher up.
10:47That's right.
10:47We'll actually have more velocity on the way down and it'll be easier to get it to the field.
10:51But you're right.
10:51There won't be any snow to throw it.
10:53Yeah.
10:53There shouldn't be.
10:55NFL tiers.
10:56Which NFL team, offense and defense, EPA per play, is smashed right on top of the Bills on Ben Baldwin's
11:06tiers of teams?
11:08What NFL team is the Bills' same team through this much of the season?
11:16I am going to guess Cincinnati.
11:19Correct.
11:20Yeah.
11:21They are the same team right now.
11:23They're better on defense, but they're still not good on defense and their offense is unstoppable.
11:28Yep.
11:30The four best teams in football, according to Ben Baldwin, are five best teams.
11:36Are San Francisco, number one.
11:38Okay.
11:39Jacksonville, number two.
11:41Kansas City, number three.
11:43Bills-Bengals right there, four or five.
11:46Five-four.
11:48Four in the AFC.
11:50The AFC playoffs, this is the thing.
11:53The Jaguars acted yesterday.
11:55We'll see what the Chiefs do today.
11:57We'll see what the Bengals do today.
11:59We'll see what the Bills do today.
12:01Mike Florio saying that draft picks are cheap young labor.
12:05That is correct.
12:06That is one way to look at it.
12:10Well, the other thing, too, the point you make a lot about match play when you get to the playoffs.
12:16I guess one defense of Jacksonville doing what they did.
12:19They acquire a defensive tackle who, as Mike said, plays 52% of the snaps, comes off the field on
12:23third downs, but he's amazing stopping the run.
12:26If you think you're going to see Kansas City...
12:29Or Buffalo?
12:30Or Buffalo, but I think Kansas City more so right now.
12:32We'll see what they do today.
12:34If I can stop Kansas City from running it, they're not scoring on me.
12:37They're dead.
12:37They can't throw it.
12:38Like, the Bills, you could stop the run.
12:39That's valuable.
12:40The Bills could still get points on you.
12:41But Kansas City, I stopped Kenneth Walker.
12:44I've stopped the Chiefs offense.
12:45What's my best matchup to stop the Bills?
12:48What do I want to acquire if I'm Jacksonville trying to stop the Bills?
12:50Is it Jesse Bates?
12:53Yes.
12:56Could be a few things with the Bills, but sure.
12:58Yeah, I would say safety.
12:59Like, we'll make sure I've got somebody that can do everything defensively.
13:03Early in the season, when Allen was throwing bombs down the field, and they were super...
13:08And they're still explosive.
13:09But how many games early in the year was it the Bills are exposing bad safeties?
13:13That was in Houston.
13:14That was against the Lions.
13:16Like, they will go after bad safeties, and they'll get it.
13:20Yesterday, they tried, but Byron Murphy had a different...
13:23Yeah, he made a great play.
13:24Yeah.
13:25Well, get a break.
13:27Join us on the other side if you'd like to.
13:29Look for some rumors.
13:30Come on, we had a trade yesterday.
13:31Can we have a trade today?
13:32So, the last rumor I saw was Jordan Schultz talking about, like, how the Vikings are going
13:36to try to trade for a quarterback, and that the league is like, they have to.
13:39Like, everybody around the NFL thinks the Vikings will trade for a quarterback today.
13:44What about Khalil Mack for the Bills?
13:48Um, I saw a report yesterday that he's not going to be traded.
13:51Okay.
13:52But, you know, take that for what it's worth.
13:55He could still get traded, I guess.
13:57Um, I mean, I like it for the Bills.
14:01He shouldn't cost a ton because of his age.
14:05I don't know what the contract is, but Bradley Chubb's not really happening right now.
14:09It's definitely not happening with Bradley Chubb.
14:11Like, it's just, Mack's on a one-year, $18 million deal.
14:14His cap hit is $18 million.
14:16Okay.
14:17And to the new team, it is $4 million.
14:20Okay.
14:21That's, like, right up against it.
14:23Yep.
14:23But you can fit that.
14:24You do something small to create a little bit extra space.
14:27Yeah, I would not be against that move at all.
14:29He has three sacks in eight games, playing 70% of the snaps.
14:33So, he's playing.
14:36That'll pull at the emotional heartstrings a little bit because I know Bills fans wanted
14:39him for 15 years.
14:41No.
14:41Or when was he drafted?
14:43Right after Sammy Watkins.
14:44So, that's the 2014 draft?
14:47So, 12 years?
14:48I'll take your word for it, yeah.
14:49It's been a long time.
14:52803-0550.
14:53Back to your phone calls in a moment on WGR.