- 3 hours ago
A panel debate moderated by Preeti Choudhry examines the controversy surrounding the Election Commission of India, electoral roll manipulation allegations, and administrative revisions concerning Form 6. Congress spokesperson Salman Soz criticized the poll panel, alleging widespread voter disenfranchisement, pointing to reported institutional dissent, and demanding the resignation of the Chief Election Commissioner. In response, Bharatiya Janata Party national spokesperson Dr. Syed Zafar Islam defended the constitutional body, stating that electoral concerns should be debated inside Parliament rather than through public demonstrations. Political analyst Sanjay Jha called for institutional transparency regarding internal deliberations among election commissioners, while commentator Rajat Sethi highlighted judicial scrutiny at the Supreme Court, voter infiltration issues in border states, and discussions regarding a National Register of Citizens. The discussion centers on poll body accountability, administrative course corrections, and whether the Election Commission should hold direct press conferences to address questions regarding electoral integrity.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Alright, so the big questions that we asked this evening,
00:03Guspetya versus Votchori, which narrative is really working and sticking
00:06where the people of the country are concerned?
00:09The debate dares part of narrative building on either sides of the political divide.
00:14Importantly, welfare schemes.
00:15Will voter ID replace the Adhaar?
00:18And has somewhere the opposition now found something to link
00:24their Votchori jibe electorally with the cause where they say
00:29that your welfare schemes will be taken away from you
00:32if you don't get registered as a voter.
00:36All these questions taken to our panelists this evening.
00:39Joining me, Mr. Salman Saws, National Spokesperson, Congress,
00:42Dr. Saeed Zafar Islam, National Spokesperson, BJP and former Rajya Sabha MP,
00:48Rajat Sethi, Political Analyst and Sanjay Jha, Political Analyst.
00:51I'd like to begin with the BJP spokesperson.
00:54And Dr. Islam, you know, the fact is that repeatedly
00:57both the election commissioners, Mr. Joshi as well as Mr. Sandhu,
01:02had questioned the inclusion of Form 6 declaration in the SIR declaration
01:09as part of Form 6 to a limit where one of them actually called it arbitrary and illegal.
01:16Now the election commission has gone ahead and reversed that.
01:21This is three reversals that the election commission has made on Form 6 alone,
01:26which completes its reversal per se, where the declaration of SIR and Form 6 is concerned.
01:33Of everything that the election commission comes out and says that we were all on board,
01:39there was nothing wrong, there was no malpractice between the election commission,
01:43they have done exactly that.
01:45All the issues that were raised, they have gone back and one could say make a U-turn on it
01:51or cost-corrected.
01:57Well, Pritiji election commission will speak for themselves.
02:01I'm not their spokesperson.
02:03And it is the rights of every political party to raise issues which they feel appropriate
02:11and speak to the election commission and the chief election commission as and when they have certain things to discuss.
02:18But when you are making allegation and not meeting the chief election commission or for that matter election commissioner
02:25and all the false allegation you are making is totally unwarranted.
02:30It's a constitutional body.
02:31They have the constitutional authorities and they are always available to discuss, deliberate and satisfy the representative,
02:44all the political parties who intend to meet the election commission.
02:46At the behest of coming in, where are they really available?
02:50Because I think one thing should have been done, right in the word go,
02:55was the election commission in totality, all three members address a press conference, rebut claim by claim.
03:01What they did was issue a one-sided statement.
03:03They continue to do so.
03:04They have made eight, you can again call it cost correction or a U-turn, eight times.
03:10You know, they have corrected their costs.
03:13Most of the issues they have picked up and we can go one by one is practically reinstating the charges
03:21that were laid at the back of the Indian Express report.
03:25So, where is it that they are readily available?
03:27Because one would hope that they come out and take all the questions.
03:33No, they will, they are always readily available.
03:37But when you make a statement outside and you do dharna without seeking any appointment with the election commissioner or
03:47chief election commissioner,
03:49then how can you make this kind of a statement that they were not available?
03:53They were always available.
03:55Did you seek any appointment with them?
03:57First of all, you must address this concern that without asking for any appointment,
04:01how can you make this statement that they were not available?
04:04They are always available.
04:05That's their responsibility to address the concern.
04:07As a journalist, you know, leave alone the politics.
04:10Of all the political parties.
04:10Because I don't think anyone, like the voters of this country really would want to know,
04:15especially the ones who don't find their names in the voter list.
04:18Leave alone the politics.
04:19If they are available, then as a journalist, I ask you, why not a press conference?
04:24The election commission has always done so earlier.
04:27Where is the election commission in the last two months?
04:30Where they should be rebutting claim by claim.
04:32But what they are seemingly doing is cost-correcting on the same issues that have been raised
04:37as malpractice and malfunction of the EC on newspaper reports here.
04:46You want them to function or you want to just interact with media?
04:51And I'm sure that whenever it is warranted, they will interact with the media.
04:56But if they are doing a job which you wanted them to do,
04:58or for that matter, it is their job, they are discharging their responsibility.
05:02What is the problem you have or anyone has?
05:04As a journalist, also, why will you have a problem with their discharging their responsibility?
05:10And...
05:11Sir, I don't have a problem.
05:11But I would hope they'll take questions from the media.
05:15I think that's a basic right to ask.
05:17I hope you concur.
05:20No, of course, they have always made a press conference.
05:26They have always done a press conference.
05:27And they have taken questions from the media.
05:29And as I said, it is their prerogative.
05:32And it is their decision when to do a press conference,
05:38when it is warranted, when it actually needs to be done.
05:42And only for the sake of the media houses,
05:46since they are asking for a press conference,
05:49they should come out and speak to the media.
05:51This is not...
05:51This is something which is not warranted
05:54as far as the election commissioner or election commission is concerned.
05:56For that matter, any constitutional body...
05:58But, sir, I beg to differ, but I'll come back to you.
06:01Because I think with constitutional institutions,
06:03there should also be constitutional morality.
06:06But I think...
06:06I beg to differ.
06:07I want to raise one question.
06:08I want to raise one question.
06:09Sure.
06:11But you can have your own...
06:13You're entitled to have your own opinion.
06:14But I want to raise one issue.
06:16Mr. Rahul Gandhi,
06:18and I'm sure that somebody from Congress must be there.
06:20Mr. Rahul Gandhi, time and again,
06:23repeatedly, everywhere, wherever he's speaking,
06:26he's challenging the Honorable Prime Minister.
06:29My request that where...
06:31Do you want to do a debate inside the parliament?
06:35Where the debate should...
06:37Debate, deliberation should take place.
06:40And he should know that he's a leader of opposition.
06:42That's a fair point, sir.
06:43That is a fair point.
06:44Why should...
06:44He's entitled under the constitution as...
06:46Why should the prime minister...
06:48No, no.
06:48Constitution...
06:49No, no.
06:49Constitution...
06:51Constitution gives him all the authority to raise any issue and discuss about it.
06:56Have a debate on any issue.
06:58Because he's a leader of opposition.
07:00But he doesn't know even his own entitlement.
07:02As a constitution, what constitution...
07:04Sir, I accept your point on the issue of debate.
07:06They're doing a drama by asking...
07:08Our parliamentary democracy doesn't really allow the kind of debate that Rahul Gandhi asks for.
07:14And why should the prime minister, you know, agree to it?
07:17Well, that's a fair question.
07:18But I want to bring in Salman Saas.
07:20Salman Saas, what the Congress calls today is vindication of their stand on the manipulations of the election commission.
07:27Are you somewhere down the line overstating the significance of administrative reversals?
07:35We're not overstating anything.
07:36I think the conduct of the selection commission of India is, you know, for everybody to see.
07:45I mean, it's not that we, you know, our leadership, especially Rahul Gandhi, has been talking about Vurchori for a
07:54long time now.
07:56You know, this is not new for us.
07:58I mean, we've been trying to draw the attention of the country for what has been happening, how people's votes
08:03are being stolen.
08:04And now through this process, they're basically disenfranchising 13.3 crore people.
08:11And then the home minister today says that there are 3 crore infiltrators.
08:19If that is the case, then he should be fired.
08:23There are 3 crore infiltrators in this country.
08:25Under his watch, he's not able to find them.
08:28He's not able to enumerate them.
08:31If out of these 13.3 crore people, there are 3 crore infiltrators, and he calls them Bangladeshis.
08:39By the way, what a disastrous home minister we have.
08:43That he, for the last three years, there's a state in India that is burning, where elderly people are being
08:51killed, where women are being raped and paraded naked, and the violence still goes on.
08:58And he's taking out of Dharna and taking out a rally for democracy.
09:04I mean, and he's destroying the relationship with the neighboring country because of his bigotry.
09:13And now he's asking us to go to parliament.
09:17Where was he?
09:18I'm asking the home minister.
09:21Where was he when his Delhi police brutally attacked young people of Delhi?
09:26But Mr. Soz, allow me every bottle.
09:28Wait, just Preeti, just give me five seconds.
09:32He says come to parliament.
09:34Where was he when parliament needed him?
09:36He was, he had to respond to our questions after the protests in Delhi, but he was nowhere to be
09:41found.
09:42He was hiding.
09:44Okay, but Mr. Soz.
09:45And he called us to go to parliament.
09:46But Mr. Soz, now you have repeatedly the home minister, now the third time over, say, come to the parliament,
09:54we'll call a session, a special session, let's debate on SIR.
09:58That's a fair point.
09:59That's how Indian democracy works.
10:01Yet, the leader of the opposition insists on a presidential-style face-off with the prime minister.
10:08Well, first of all, when the leader of the opposition, you know, is directing a remark to the prime minister
10:15of the country, then the home minister should not butt in because the prime minister does not need a bodyguard.
10:25The home minister is not the prime minister's bodyguard.
10:28He should be focused on protecting the internal security of this country.
10:31Okay, but Mr. Soz, that still doesn't answer the question on why is it that the Congress is refusing to
10:37concede to a special session where you can debate what you are debating on the streets.
10:42We're not refusing anything. The point is that when we debate them, even when we go to parliament, they constantly
10:50turn off, like my colleague Imran Masood said in this bite of his, that they keep constantly shutting down our
10:59mics.
10:59Okay.
10:59When the leader of the opposition, by the way, Preeti, one thing our people sitting at home should understand.
11:05Sir, I'll come to you and I'll just open the debate and I'll come.
11:09I do not interrupt you.
11:11Sir, make your point in 10 seconds. Mr. Soz, make your point.
11:13Let me finish.
11:15I want the people of the country to know, to understand, that the NDA, the ruling alliance, has about 42
11:24% of the vote and the India alliance is about 40.5% of the vote.
11:28And there's another part of the opposition that is not with either them or with us.
11:33Okay.
11:34That means most of the opposition, by the way, that means we have a right.
11:38It is not as if NDA moves the country.
11:40Okay, but Mr. Soz, I'll come back to you. I'll come back to you on the same point.
11:44The parliament is not prorogued yet. There is an opportunity.
11:47You can take this debate from the streets to the sansad.
11:50What you say, Sadak to sansad.
11:53We will debate this issue everywhere.
11:55I'll come back to you, sir. Allow me to open the debate.
11:56We will debate this issue everywhere.
11:58Okay, fair point. I'll come back to you. Allow me to open the debate.
12:00I want to bring in Rajat Sethi and I want to circle back to what we began with, with what
12:04Rajat, the election commission, has done.
12:06And I want to just go through the points.
12:07In the last five weeks alone, Rajat, the commission has moved on almost every point that the two election commissioners
12:14had raised.
12:15On meetings, agenda now will be circulated before every commission meeting.
12:20Foreign travel, new IT systems, an audit of ECINET, and now the latest where the declaration of SIR has been
12:28done away with where Form 6 is concerned.
12:31It is, Rajat, now, and I want to ask you, leave alone the politics.
12:36The election commission is seemingly has made eight U-turns, you can call it, cost correction, administrative reversals, but they've
12:44done so.
12:44Yet, there is a difference of sorts to coming out and taking any questions at the back of it.
12:53So, Preeti ji, I am also, you know, seeing that there have been quote-unquote U-turns from the election
12:59commission.
13:00But what we need to see is that whether whatever decisions that the election commission in its own wisdom takes,
13:08were the procedures followed?
13:11Was there the adequate amount of majority that was required to conduct those decisions or those quote-unquote U-turns?
13:19As long as the procedural sanctity is maintained, election commission would have felt that it is under immense public pressure,
13:30that there should not be any, you know, addendums to be added on to the Form 6 or whatever they
13:38deemed fit.
13:38This goes back to the comment of the Supreme Court itself that the election commission remains a reservoir of power,
13:45and there is a lot of residual power which sits with the election commission to decide what it deems fit
13:51for the sanctity of the entire process.
13:53Of course, there has been public pressure, and I don't think that the CEC or the other two ECs have
13:58been immune to that.
13:59There have been all the three ECs have committed actions which are currently under scrutiny even by the Supreme Court.
14:06And I believe had this not been there, things would have been very different,
14:11and the public pressure would have forced them to come out and issue a press conference.
14:15But right now, if the Supreme Court is going through threadbare onto every action that has been taken by the
14:21election commission,
14:22is currently under judicial review, and I think that's where the election commission is currently pausing on.
14:28Otherwise, you know, it's an important, deeper question that the constitutional bodies,
14:33not the political heads and the political ministers who are accountable to the public in the parliament, off the parliament,
14:39but what should be the response of constitutional bodies?
14:42Like, tomorrow, if there is a judgment from the Supreme Court, can we force the Supreme Court justices to also
14:47come out and do a press conference explaining their judgments?
14:50So, again, this is a question about the gravity of a constitutional body and how are they answerable to the
14:57people of this country?
14:58What should be the mechanisms?
14:59You might think that press conferences are the mechanisms.
15:03When in the past have the election commissions, other than the election time, have they issued press conferences?
15:08I am not aware of. Please educate me if there have been instances.
15:12And I'd be happy. Again, this is an answer that I don't have.
15:15But Rajat, I'll give you an example. I will give you an example.
15:17When the opposition went to Trump, and it wasn't even any journalistic inquisition in that, on the functioning of the
15:23EVMs.
15:23The election commission then came out with an EVM openly challenging the opposition to come and see if it could
15:29be manipulated.
15:29The fact is opposition didn't show up. But in one press conference, the election commission completely then tore into what
15:37had been the charges of the opposition.
15:39This time around, it's very, very different, Rajat, because there might be a judicial review, but that doesn't take away
15:46from the integrity and the credibility of the EC.
15:49The EC needs to come out and dispel each and every charge, because now, away from what the political charge
15:55has been, now there are charges which seemingly the EC is acting on.
16:02Every charge of the news report, and I can name seven of those, where the EC has course corrected, validating
16:09the same news report which has pretty much questioned the functioning of this constitutional body, Rajat.
16:15No, again, Preeti ji, see, how many in our country know how is the file noting being done?
16:22What, how many decisions in this country historically over the 70 years, be it in the government or within the
16:27constitutional bodies, have been entirely unanimous?
16:30So again, the full picture is not with us. Apparently, it is only the Supreme Court which can order for
16:36issuing, releasing all the file notings that have been made.
16:39But if the file notings are done in disagreement, and there is no full sort of unanimity around certain decisions,
16:46and those file notings are in isolation, if you try taking snapshots of those file notings and start putting a
16:52scandalous news around it, is that the complete picture?
16:55It is a partial picture, for sure. But is it a complete picture? I don't have an answer.
16:59I want to bring in Sanjid Har, but I just want to, what I want to say is, who's scripting
17:04the scandal there? The scandalous picture which people are creating by putting two and two and connecting every U-turn
17:10of the Election Commission to the, you know, the story in Indian Express, has been scripted by none else but
17:16the Election Commission.
17:18I agree, Preeti Ji. There is a lot to answer. I am just debating here what is the right platform
17:23to answer that. Election Commission has to come out clean. Has there been any procedural lacuna anywhere in the process?
17:30We should all come on the streets across party lines seeking the resignation.
17:33All right, and as a journalist, if I view what is happening, and I think any journalist, what they saw,
17:39will say in the last two months what has gone down, the Election Commission needs to come out.
17:43The three Election Commissioners need to come out and take question by question, rebut every charge that they are facing
17:50today. Other than that, if they don't do so, the credibility of the Election Commission is in the doldrums.
17:54Sanjid Jha, I want to bring you in, because till now, you know, as a political analyst, what was interesting
18:00is that the opposition was making a fair amount of noise around it, where Votchori was concerned.
18:06But there was a constant refrain. Had they been able to tie Votchori to an electorally emotive issue?
18:12Now, with what the Panchayati Raj Minister had said, Laland Singh, that you will now not need the Aadhaar, the
18:19Aadhaar is defunct, but you need a voter ID, and only then will you have access to Panchayati Raj schemes,
18:25gives credence to the fact that the opposition is now going to town, and I can just quote from Jairam
18:30Ramesh's tweet, where he says,
18:31Votchori is just the trailer, the full picture is hak ki chori. You know, you hark back to 2024,
18:38Samvidan khatre mein hai was the charge, par arakshan khatam ho jayega was the electoral issue.
18:44Yeah. Preeti, let me tell you, ever since the Indian Express expose has become an item of public conversation, it's
18:54opened up a Pandora's box.
18:57I mean, whether it's the Hindu, the Reporters Collective, the Hindustan Times, the Economic Times,
19:02everyone has exposed a serious level of electoral malfeasance, whether intentional or unintentional, it is a serious matter.
19:11Now, here is the question that has to be answered, and Mr. Modi cannot dodge it by, you know, making
19:16Mr. Amit Shah become his front man.
19:19Rahul Gandhi has challenged him for a debate on the fundamental issue of the charges being made against the Congress
19:26party,
19:26which includes the fact that, hey, we are being anarchist or we are being disruptive if we are questioning the
19:33future of Indian democracy.
19:34It's a joke, really. And let's look at the fundamental fact here, Preeti.
19:39Today, the people of India who have been harassed, who have been denied the right to vote in West Bengal,
19:46which is astronomical crisis of democracy, in my opinion, and will have to be investigated someday,
19:51they actually don't even know who authorized the SIR. Was it the Election Commission?
19:57And if it wasn't the Election Commission, as it should be, who was it? Was it the government?
20:01So the crucial question that has to be answered, and this is the right of every citizen in this country
20:08is,
20:08who is the political beneficiary of the allegations against the Election Commissioner that is being made today?
20:15Now, I'll tell you why the context is actually extremely dodgy. The selection, the entire process being altered to choose
20:23a favored person of the government,
20:25to give this person a legal immunity from any prosecution, these raise eyebrows.
20:31I mean, these are very elementary challenges that I don't think can be ignored by some degree of rhetoric by
20:37Amit Shah.
20:38And since Mr. Amit Shah has this habit, you know, the Home Minister has, I think Salman has raised that
20:43absolutely brilliantly.
20:45Since he keeps talking about infiltrators and termites and so on and so forth, I saw the last data on
20:52public record.
20:53That says there's 1,600 infiltrators that were identified in six states.
20:58And he's talking about some 30 million. I mean, you know, Mr. Shah can use all these political rhetoric and
21:05hyper-nationalism,
21:07national security to fool the people of India, but I think the people have seen through this game.
21:12But Sanjay, you know, okay, is the opposition doing itself any favors by constantly harping on what is optically,
21:20you know, it works on social media by asking for a debate, a face-off, by doing a poll on
21:26Twitter on should there be a face-off between the LOP and the Prime Minister?
21:30Why not go the Parliament route? You've been offered a special session. Go ahead, debate in Parliament.
21:37You know, Preeti, let me tell you, you're a seasoned editor and you've been around for a very long time.
21:42And I think this is something that all of us, including Syed and Mr. Sethi and my dear friend Salman,
21:48we would love a debate between Rahul Gandhi and Narendra Modi. Let it happen in India today.
21:53Let it happen with you and Rajdeep anchoring it. Let the questions be impromptu.
21:58Let them both come prepared, have their sheet of papers next to them and go for it.
22:03But Sanjay, we're not America. That's not how Indian parliamentary democracy functions.
22:07But I'll tell you the problem. The problem in Parliament is that Mr. Modi will come with his, you know,
22:12prepared text.
22:14He will respond after Rahul Gandhi is done. Rahul Gandhi does not get a chance to do a complete, you
22:19know, kind of counter challenge.
22:20That is what debating is all about. It's not about Rahul coming with his speech and then Mr. Modi coming
22:25and indulging in his melodramatic...
22:28Okay, Sanjay, I want to just go back and I want to go back to Dr. Islam who's been wanting
22:32to interject very patiently ever since Mr. Salman saw spoke.
22:36So, I'll give all of you your last interjections and I'll begin with you, Dr. Islam. Go ahead, sir. Final
22:44comments.
22:47First of all, first of all, I had to initially said and again I'm repeating that Mr. Rahul Gandhi was
22:56first asked by the Honorable Home Minister to have a debate on SIR.
23:02SIR and let's have a session. Write a letter to the Prime Minister or the Constitutional Authority and request for
23:13a special session of Parliament where SIR can be discussed.
23:17I mean, you are making an allegation and the Home Minister, the government is saying that let's have a debate
23:25on the floor of the Parliament.
23:28Let's convene a special session of the Parliament. Why are you running away from it? Have a session. I mean,
23:34you are making an allegation. Where should we discuss?
23:36We should discuss at the floor of the Parliament. The reason why I'm telling you this, Mr. Rahul Gandhi has
23:42a habit of making allegation and do not substantiate it.
23:46I mean, he doesn't have any proof of anything. If he doesn't want to discuss, go to the approach to
23:51the Honorable Court. Go there with some proof instead of making this kind of allegation only for the public consumption.
24:00That is something which we are very worried about. Because we want a purposeful debate and deliberation should take place
24:09on the floor of the Parliament.
24:10And that is why if he is really keen, he really wants, if he has any concern, then please help
24:19the government to convene a special session of Parliament.
24:21Fair point, sir. That's a political charge.
24:23Where every single issue you can raise can be answered adequately to your satisfaction.
24:28All right. Fair point. You know, that's a political charge. But I would also just like to add in because
24:31you spoke about ethics.
24:32All these fancy statements, let's have debate in one corner. I think we can send our state president or Zilla
24:42president, whichever city he wants to have a debate.
24:45We will nominate or depute our district president to have a debate with Rahul Gandhi and I'm sure that he
24:52will expose him there as well.
24:53All right. Okay. So, you know, but that's political rhetoric. I just want to add, you know, if we're talking
24:58about ethics, I would really think away from the politics.
25:01And one can't say it enough. The election commission of this country needs to come out and address a press
25:07conference.
25:07Because what you spoke of one-sided communication, Dr. Islam, where you spoke of the Congress, I think the journalistic
25:14community is now looking at the election commission very closely.
25:17You cannot have one-sided communication. You have to come out and lay from there.
25:21All these bodies, no, no, but Prithi Jai, all these bodies, they always release, press release.
25:32No, sir. Whatever they want to let the people know, it comes out through press release.
25:37No, sir. The election commission on multiple times have taken questions and dispelled every…
25:41It works. No, sir. I agree with you. Whenever it is warranted, they will do press conference.
25:48Sir, if this is not warranted now, then when is it warranted?
25:50It is not at your wims and fancies that somebody wants a press conference.
25:53Sir, it's not somebody. If it is not warranted now, when would it be warranted, sir?
25:57The BJP should also ask. You should also ask the election commission to have a press conference. Final comments.
26:02Okay, sir. You made your submission.
26:04No, no, no. Anybody should ask whether it's me or… No, no.
26:06I am glad you are asking.
26:07No, no. I am saying that any political party's representative can ask.
26:11Well, I am glad… I am glad you agree on that.
26:13But it is their prerogative. It is their…
26:15Of course it is their prerogative. I agree.
26:15They said when to make a press conference and when to interact with the media.
26:19Because they will release press conference… a press release they will give so that people should know what exactly…
26:25No, sir. The press releases are not working.
26:28Because the credibility of the election commission now is in question.
26:34I mean, I don't know what exactly you want… No, no.
26:36Sir, I only want a press conference. I mean…
26:38You are making unnecessary this kind of statement that…
26:40You are making unnecessary this kind of a statement that…
26:41No, why do you want a press conference?
26:43Sir, I will give you… I can start right from the word go on the number of issues I want
26:48a press conference from.
26:50The latest… The latest… Dr. Islam, the latest of delinking…
26:54Finally, the SIR declaration from form 6…
26:59Of making three reversals on form 6…
27:01Which pretty much gives credence to everything that the two election commissioners had raised…
27:05On the workings of the election commission.
27:08So, this is just the first point. We can go…
27:11Not at all. I think you should…
27:13You… No, no.
27:15No, I can…
27:17I would only say…
27:18As I said earlier…
27:19I would only say…
27:20This is something which…
27:22Which…
27:22They work…
27:23They are…
27:23Let me speak a little bit now.
27:25After the…
27:26I would only remind you, Zhamvarbhai…
27:29That this is the same chief election commissioner…
27:32Who did a press conference and said…
27:34Affidavit Dena Hoga…
27:36Ya Mafi Maangni Hogi…
27:38Am I wrong?
27:39That's what he said to the leader of the opposition.
27:42Is that the way to speak to the leader of the opposition?
27:46Is that the way?
27:47The person who represents half the country?
27:51And by the way, I want to disabuse you…
27:54Of the notion that…
27:55Does he know that he is a leader of opposition?
27:56No, no.
27:56Please listen.
27:57I didn't interrupt you one single time.
28:00I did not interrupt you one single time.
28:02I did not interrupt you one single time.
28:02No, I am…
28:03I am…
28:03I am…
28:04I'm…
28:05I am not interrupting you.
28:06I am not interrupting you.
28:08You are interrupting me.
28:08You are interrupting me.
28:09That is called an interruption.
28:10I am just asking you one question.
28:11Does he know…
28:12What is the speaking to…
28:13No, no.
28:13Can I…
28:14Please can you respond to this question also…
28:16No, why would you respond?
28:17I did not…
28:17I did not interrupt you.
28:19But it's a…
28:19But Dr Islam…
28:20It's a statutory post.
28:22It's not a constitutional post.
28:23L.O.P.
28:23What is it?
28:24What authority did he draw?
28:26Because being a leader of opposition…
28:28This is ridiculous.
28:28Okay.
28:28Can we go…
28:29There is no point doing this.
28:30Can we just go one by one?
28:32Dr Islam, you had your final comments.
28:34And if you want…
28:35I will come back to you again.
28:36But allow me to bring in the congress spokesperson.
28:37Go ahead, sir.
28:38Make your point.
28:39This is my…
28:40This is my experience with BJP spokespersons.
28:42And unfortunately…
28:43I don't know why Zafar Bhai is doing this.
28:45He is a decent person.
28:47They disturb…
28:47They interrupt you when they know that they have been beaten.
28:51So the fact of the matter is that the chief election commissioner spoke like Amit Shah does now.
28:58He spoke like Narendra Modi does now in a filmy dialogue.
29:02And then it came back to bite him.
29:04Why?
29:05Because the Indian Express expose was for their all to see.
29:09It wasn't the congress saying anything.
29:11It was good journalism which prevailed and said, look, you have done…
29:17There's malfeasance inside the election commission.
29:20There are things that are happening that are wrong.
29:23Okay.
29:23And yet…
29:23No, but that's not the only thing.
29:25Now, I would say that, you know, when people say this is a constitutional body…
29:29A constitutional body, what is a constitutional body?
29:33It's basically people like us who are there, who have been given a certain responsibility.
29:39And if those people disrespect that constitutional body, that constitutional body does not remain that constitutional body.
29:47Because these people have basically subverted the mandate of that constitutional body.
29:52So, I would only say, it does not matter if they do one press conference or 100 press conferences.
29:58As far as the congress party is concerned, as far as the India Alliance is concerned, the chief election commissioner
30:04has to resign.
30:06Okay.
30:06And I would request him on this television channel, through this television channel that, sir, your position is untenable.
30:14The entire opposition does not want you there.
30:17Okay, allow me.
30:17Rajat City final comments.
30:18That's it.
30:19And by the way, just one shout out to my good friend, old buddy, my brother, Sanjay Jaa.
30:24I haven't seen him in a while.
30:25Good to see him on this channel.
30:27Take it offline, Mr. Saas.
30:28Okay.
30:28Let me bring in Sanjay.
30:30Let me bring in Rajat City.
30:30Ask him to go back to Congress.
30:32Okay, can I just bring in?
30:33Sanjay, go back to Congress.
30:34He is in Congress.
30:35He is in Congress.
30:36Dr. Islam, Mr. Saas.
30:38Sanjay, take this offline.
30:40Okay, sir.
30:40He is upset with Rao Ghani.
30:41Okay, fine.
30:41Rajat, can I get the radar down?
30:42He is in Congress and the Congress is everywhere now.
30:44Can I just get Rajat?
30:45Rajat, final comments.
30:48I think we continue to be under this acute crisis of identity-related documents in this
30:55country, which is not getting resolved.
30:57And I believe one of the panelists was saying that where is this three-crore number being
31:01thrown?
31:02I'll draw their memory to the Minister of State for Home Affairs.
31:06When UPA was in power on the floor of the House, they had said on record that the number
31:13of illegal migrants from Bangladesh are two-crore.
31:15So that has gone into the parliamentary records in a way that governments after governments
31:23have come in, but they've not been able to address how do you identify people who have
31:28infiltrated from Bangladesh.
31:30They've been able to get all the documents, including Aadhaar Guard, etc.
31:33The only possible way which is constitutionally identified is the National Register of Citizens.
31:40That's the only way and the only family tree-based way in which you can actually find the roots
31:47with regards to these people who have come in.
31:50I have worked in the border states, so before Salman Sozji nods his head, I have seen states
31:57after states in the border areas who come in and infiltrate, have over a period of time
32:03made documents which are more robust than even the citizens of this country.
32:06For a reason, Aadhaar has now been centralized in several states.
32:10So today, these individual shops cannot issue Aadhaar cards.
32:14This is now either centralized at the district magistrate level or it has further gone in
32:18at the state capital level because of the seriousness around which the leakages have happened
32:22through the Aadhaar system.
32:24You first acquire the Aadhaar, then you gradually acquire the passport and you become a legitimate
32:28citizen.
32:28This has happened irrationally in several states and I think one of the reasons why Manipur
32:33is still burning.
32:34One of the core reasons is this.
32:36Therefore, none of the leaders, none of the political parties want to pay adequate attention
32:41that we haven't been able to clear up these states and this will carry on as a major issue
32:46all throughout.
32:47Sanjay Jha, final comments.
32:49Let me tell you, I think what Indian Express has actually highlighted and many people have
32:54missed it, is the fact that there were two election commissioners who did not agree
32:59with the chief election commissioner.
33:01And this is the reason why they are probably not doing a press conference because you know
33:05it, right?
33:06By law, if it is not unanimous or majority, then the decisions that have been taken unilaterally
33:14are unconstitutional and illegal.
33:17But Sanjay, the Supreme Court has confirmed that it was unanimous.
33:23It was unanimous.
33:25Let me tell you, you will not be able to answer the question on the affirmative.
33:29The question on legality still continues because was it unanimous even though you flagged it
33:34as illegal?
33:35That's separate, but it was unanimous.
33:37Well, let me tell you, I mean, you know, what you heard from the Indian Express revelations
33:43were that the election commissioners were not even aware of certain decisions being taken.
33:48So whether the SIR had the unanimous approbation of all is up in the air and this we'll need
33:53to find out.
33:54A quick one.
33:55I don't think the BJP is understanding the problem at the moment at all.
33:59This is a battle between the BJP and the people of India because the right to vote is guaranteed
34:05to us by the Constitution.
34:06It's our fundamental right.
34:09The trust deficit is rising by the day.
34:11If they believe that these protests are happening because we want to make noise, I think they're
34:15living in a fool's paradise.
34:17I'm going to close the debate.
34:19I apologize.
34:19I don't have the time.
34:20I've allowed all of you equal time.
34:22Sir, I really apologize because if I have to start this, then the whole cycle goes.
34:25Only a factual thing.
34:27Only a factual thing.
34:27No, sir.
34:28No, no, no.
34:29I'm sorry because then it gets really, you know, then Mr. Dr. Islam would like to come.
34:33I thank all four of you.
34:35Thank you for your time this evening.