00:00Naomi.
00:01Jacqueline.
00:02What a joy to have you here.
00:04This is the most magical moment.
00:06I mean, have we ever sat in a room and talked alone?
00:10I don't think so.
00:11I've thought about it.
00:12Yeah, me too.
00:13I've tried to orchestrate it.
00:14But you are often very busy.
00:16Am I? No.
00:18It's hard to get me out sometimes.
00:19And that's a real holdover from the depression.
00:21I hear you, sister.
00:22I hear you, sister.
00:40I find that with depression, when I'm in that true state, things that normally you
00:44kind of can do on like an autopilot or something, right?
00:48You know, healthy-ish people or whatever can sort of slip into walking and then they're
00:52just doing it.
00:54They just start, just lace up their sleeves.
00:56They're riding around on a horse that is their own walking.
01:00Yep, their legs are a horse.
01:01You know, it's just going.
01:02You know what I mean?
01:02I just, okay?
01:03I see it in them.
01:04I can tell they're not even conscious of the limbs, you know, pushing one forward and
01:08propel, propel, propel.
01:10But when I'm hideously depressed, I'm very conscious of that.
01:13I like to take a lot of stops.
01:14Yep.
01:15And stoops.
01:16Well, see, my deal is though, when I am not feeling it, where am I going?
01:22Okay, what is this like walking for walking's sake?
01:25I can't do it.
01:27Exactly.
01:27I'm like, wait, so you want me to just, because I had a therapist who would always say like,
01:31get up, take a walk, just go around the block.
01:35And I'm just like, where am I going?
01:36I hate that.
01:37Because isn't depression that feeling of futility in life?
01:40So then to get up and walk with no destination is futility manifest.
01:45When I'm like really depressed, my brain is just like Harlem in the 80s.
01:48Oh my God, that's so interesting you say that.
01:49Like, do not go alone.
01:50You need to call somebody right now.
01:53Don't turn a corner.
01:54Yes.
01:55Darkness is in every alleyway.
02:00Well, you know, you have cats.
02:02Squee and Prembley.
02:02Thank you so much for remembering.
02:05And then you also have Mabel and Fomo.
02:07Mabel and Fomo.
02:07I've often thought, and I know you've experienced this with Squee and Prembley, okay, but if your
02:16life was nothing more than caring for them, that would be a life.
02:20I would be doing God's work.
02:22Yes.
02:23That would be alone.
02:25Animals are not a sideshow act.
02:27Okay.
02:28Okay.
02:28Animals alone.
02:29You are taking care of, you are keeping a life safe and healthy and happy.
02:34And it almost makes me want to have an actual human child.
02:36No.
02:37Well, I don't really.
02:38But sometimes I think, well, if this career doesn't happen.
02:41If your career doesn't happen?
02:43What if I just make a baby?
02:45And then if I keep it alive, I've won.
02:48You think?
02:49I will have been successful if I keep it alive.
02:51Really?
02:52To 21.
02:53I'm not convinced that's enough.
02:54I mean, look, I do not think that I could necessarily keep one alive.
02:58You know what I mean?
02:59Well, exactly.
03:00I know.
03:00I know.
03:01And I think I would, like, you know, people always say, like, you have kids and you make
03:03it work.
03:04But I don't think, I could see myself being like, and here's the thing, I wouldn't even
03:08be drunk or on a drug.
03:10No.
03:10It would still be, like, literally, like, mommy needs to lay down.
03:13It's all about laying down.
03:14Go, like, feed yourself.
03:15It's all about food.
03:16And then the kid tries to make some Kraft macaroni and cheese.
03:19And the whole house burns down.
03:21Yeah.
03:21I've seen this play out.
03:22Yeah.
03:22I feel like that would be, all because I couldn't get up.
03:25I want, mommy!
03:25You know, mommy, I wanted to make you happy, okay?
03:28I'm gonna make a smiley face pancake for mommy.
03:32Okay?
03:33Oh.
03:35You don't want to wake mommy, then.
03:38Yeah.
03:42Do you think that at a fire, okay, and you're most depressed?
03:45Yeah.
03:46At scent of fire, okay?
03:48Scent of fire, scent of smoke.
03:50Scent of fire.
03:50Do you immediately hop up?
03:53Are you immediately activated?
03:54Or is there a, let's, like, make sure it's my apartment that's burning?
03:59Actually, no.
04:00I smell it, and I actually do immediately hop up.
04:02I'll tell you why.
04:03Survival lives in you.
04:04It does.
04:05I will hop up, but you know what I'm also gonna do?
04:07I gotta get those cat children in a carrier.
04:09And we gotta get out.
04:10Which is hard.
04:11Well, I just think, you know, smoke inhalation's too painful a way to go.
04:14Is it?
04:15Of course!
04:16It's burning, though.
04:17Oh, of course!
04:18Okay, what if you couldn't get out, but you had an oxygen tank?
04:21See what I'm saying?
04:22Uh-huh.
04:22I mean, I know oxygen burns, but let's say perfectly—
04:24Right, but what you want is first to pass out due to smoke inhalation.
04:27Yes.
04:27And then let the flames take you.
04:30Okay, because, because, burning.
04:34Okay?
04:35Yeah, no way.
04:36No way.
04:36I mean—
04:37And knowing my luck, I'd live!
04:38What about on a mistake?
04:41Do you find that personhood becomes a question?
04:43When depressed, sort of, you know—
04:46Like, am I real?
04:46I can't leave.
04:48It's interesting.
04:48I consider myself, when I'm feeling in my most down, I am a waste of space.
04:53Mmm.
04:54I'm a waste of space.
04:54I'm a waste of resources.
04:56Oh, my God.
04:57You go eco.
04:58I do!
04:59I'm like, Jesus!
05:01Someone else take the oxygen!
05:02Someone else take it!
05:03What am I doing right now?
05:05But, you know?
05:06It's not like I—
05:06You know, as a creative person, it's like, you're like, I need to recharge.
05:10I need to refill the well.
05:12Oh, my—
05:12That's not what I'm doing.
05:13I was just gonna say refill the well.
05:14That's not what I'm doing.
05:15That's a big, you know, whole chapter in The Artist's Way is about literally refill the well.
05:19Yeah, I've read it.
05:20Yeah, I'm sure you have.
05:24I hate tools.
05:26You know what I mean?
05:27I mean, like, I hate, like, that metaphor, like, we know what it means.
05:31You know what I mean?
05:31Yeah.
05:31And we know what they mean, okay?
05:33There's something really annoying about it, like, like, do you really want, like, I don't know,
05:37there's something, like, unappealing about, like, well, you're, you know, you're developing tools.
05:41Tools, like, oh, tools.
05:43I know.
05:43Do you have the tools?
05:45Do you have your—
05:45No, here's the thing.
05:46Are you using your tools?
05:47Oh, my God.
05:48Because you already have them, but are you using them?
05:51Are you using your tools?
05:51And it's also like, I don't already have them.
05:53You mean the one thing you suggested last week that was annoying?
05:56Yeah, that I haven't done since you suggested it?
05:59No.
05:59All right.
06:00Love you.
06:02Love you.
06:03Lylas.
06:04Lylas.
06:04Love you.
06:06Love you.
06:07Love you.
