- 13 hours ago
US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and US Ambassador Sergio Gor examine India-US bilateral relations on India First, addressing negotiations on a bilateral trade pact, 240 billion dollars in trade volume, and global energy dynamics following a tour of the Jamnagar refining facility. Rubio outlines United States visa policies, workforce priorities, and potential diplomatic pathways concerning the Russia-Ukraine conflict. Analysts Yash Sinha and Brahma Chellaney assess trade discussions, tariff policies, the 60-day Russian oil waiver, Venezuelan crude refining, and General Electric engine delivery schedules for India's Light Combat Aircraft programme. Furthermore, BrahMos Aerospace CEO Dr Jaiteerth Joshi explains the combat deployment of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles from Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft during Operation Sindoor. The coverage details missile stealth, triad deployment capabilities, domestic manufacturing initiatives, and development updates on the BrahMos NG system.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and a very warm welcome to an India First special broadcast. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:05On this show, we get you an India Today world exclusive.
00:09Two of the most powerful voices in the Donald Trump administration.
00:14Secretary of State Marco Rubio and U.S. Ambassador to India, Ambassador Sergio Gaur,
00:19speak exclusively to India Today on the bilateral ties and top developments across the world.
00:24So from the India-U.S. trade deal that Marco Rubio indicates could be inked very soon
00:30to Washington, D.C.'s evolving position on the Russian oil
00:34and India's role as a global energy security partner
00:39and India gaining ground as a global refining superpower.
00:44The U.S. Secretary of State also addressed very critical questions
00:47of Washington's position on Pakistan's state-sponsored radical Islamist terror
00:52and the future of India-U.S. partnership.
00:56There are many big headlines from frequent conversations
01:00between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and U.S. President Donald Trump
01:03to their likely meeting later this year.
01:05The road ahead on the Russia-Ukraine war
01:09stuck on that very crucial issue of control of Donbass.
01:13And of course, a very important issue closer home, H-1B visas.
01:19Can India First and America First go hand-in-hand?
01:24Raj Chengappa, the India Today Group editorial director publishing
01:28in a no-holds-barred conversation
01:30with two key members of President Trump's inner circle.
01:35Coming up.
01:41Hello, I'm Raj Chengappa of India Today and joining me for this very special conversation
01:47with this historic backdrop of the gateway of India and Mumbai
01:50are two of the most influential figures in India-U.S. relations,
01:55Secretary of State, U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio,
01:58and U.S. Ambassador to India, Sergio Gore.
02:01Thank you for joining us at India today.
02:03And Ambassador, how would you rate India-U.S. relations?
02:09If I give you a scale of 1 to 10 and 10 being the perfect partnership,
02:13how much would you put that?
02:14Why would I put a number on?
02:15I wouldn't put a number on.
02:16I'd say it's a very important relationship.
02:17Obviously, it's two big, important countries.
02:19We've worked together for a very long time.
02:21We have a lot of common interests.
02:23And we have a history of working together.
02:25And I think India is progressing so fast on so many areas
02:28that are important to the national security and national interest to the United States.
02:31It's a logical partnership.
02:33So I don't know about 1 to 10.
02:35I would say I think it's as strong as it's ever been.
02:37And I think in five years, we'll look back and say
02:39it's one of the strongest relationships in the world.
02:41And are there two or three things that you think right now you're going to focus on?
02:44Well, we'd like to get this trade agreement done
02:46because I think that provides stability and certainty for everyone.
02:49And then beyond that, I think there's so many areas we can work on,
02:52on energy and certainly on technology,
02:54like artificial intelligence and things of this nature, telecommunications.
02:57There's so much we can work on, biomedical, pharmaceuticals.
03:01I mean, you name it.
03:01I could go on for an hour.
03:03All right.
03:03I'll add today that any sector,
03:05and today the United States and India are working at it closer,
03:07at a higher level and more engaged,
03:09whether that's pharma, that's military exercises.
03:12You know, India has more military exercises with the United States than anyone else.
03:15So any sector, IT, of course, sales, our bilateral trade,
03:20any sector, we're working at it at a much higher level than ever before.
03:23Well, it's a bit humid.
03:24I think let's go inside.
03:46Secretary, continuing our conversation that we had,
03:49President Trump had said that India and the U.S. are pretty close to sign an agreement
03:53and it would be different.
03:56What I'd like to know is,
03:57is Washington willing to give India the competitive tariff advantage
04:00it is seeking for this interim trade agreement?
04:03Well, I'm not going to get into the specifics of any agreement until they're done
04:06because there's still a number of items being negotiated, although very few.
04:09So we're very close, and I anticipate,
04:11I can't foresee anything that would keep us from reaching agreement,
04:14but there's still some items that are being discussed.
04:16So I'd prefer not to, like, go into the details of it until it's all fully worked out.
04:20Suffice it to say that once this deal is done,
04:22it has to be one that's beneficial to both countries,
04:25and that's what I anticipate it will be.
04:27And I think the concern is that India expects continuity rather than unpredictability,
04:32and there is a super 301 provision hovering around.
04:36So could we expect that there will be continuity
04:39and not, you know, continuously have to revise our tariffs?
04:42Well, that's the point.
04:43The point of having an agreement is to be able to have certainty
04:46so that people know they can invest,
04:48people know what the rules are that are going to govern train and commerce
04:51between the two countries.
04:52That's the very purpose of having a deal.
04:54And so that's what we're working towards,
04:56and I feel very optimistic that we're going to get to a very good place very soon.
05:00Excellent.
05:00And, Ambassador Goff, turning to you,
05:03when it comes to the investment relationship,
05:06where do you see the next big wave of American investment coming into India,
05:10and in which sectors do you think that will be?
05:11Look, our bilateral trade is at an all-time high.
05:15Our bilateral trade 15 years ago used to be $20 billion.
05:18Today it's $240 billion, and it goes both ways.
05:21You have incredible investment coming into the United States.
05:23The president recently hosted SR and Oval Office.
05:26They're opening incredible facilities,
05:28multi-billion-dollar facilities in the United States
05:30that are creating jobs in local communities for Americans.
05:33On the other hand, this is a win-win situation.
05:36We have American companies that have moved here, especially relating to IT.
05:40Now, when they move here, that complements a job back home also.
05:43This is not a one-way street.
05:45And so our goal is to keep increasing that bilateral trade
05:48and identify those win-win situations.
05:50Okay, moving to energy, Secretary Rubio,
05:53can you please elaborate on the national interest cited by President Trump
05:58for the U.S. to buy Russian diesel
06:01and also a waiver of sanctions for India to buy Russian crude oil
06:04when earlier we were actually penalized for doing this?
06:07Well, a couple points.
06:08The first is right now you're looking at global economy.
06:11All foreign policy has to be balanced holistically.
06:13You can't just look at everything to the lens of one country or one conflict.
06:16And right now, while we remain very concerned and are doing all we can
06:19to bring an end to the war between Russia and Ukraine,
06:22we also recognize the impact that that war is having on the global economy
06:25in addition to what we've seen in the Straits of Wormuz
06:28and now increasingly the Red Sea.
06:29And so I think the president made a very wise decision,
06:32which is to, for some short period of time,
06:34allow there to be additional energy flows into the global marketplace,
06:38not just to benefit us.
06:39Obviously, it helps the United States,
06:41but also diesel prices are high all over the world.
06:43In the case of India, look, India has made real progress
06:45in diversifying its portfolio of energy.
06:49And it's done so not because of threats or anything of that nature.
06:52It's in India's interest to diversify its portfolio,
06:54where it gets energy from.
06:55You never want to be overly dependent on one country versus another.
06:58So it was already on that trajectory to begin with.
07:00So it's not so much about buying less Russian oil
07:03than it is about buying more U.S. crude or Venezuelan
07:06or others from the Western Hemisphere.
07:08I think that's in India's interests.
07:10And obviously, we want to help facilitate it.
07:11And more importantly, where India has real capability
07:14is the capability to ramp up refining,
07:17which crude oil is great,
07:19but you need to refine it in order for it to be a usable product.
07:21And I think India has the capacity and the capability
07:24not just to refine more,
07:26but to, in a very short order,
07:28have the kinds of investments
07:29that would allow it to expand its refining capability even further.
07:32And that's why you went to Jamnagar,
07:34and was it to enhance energy cooperation between India and the U.S.?
07:37Well, we already have energy cooperation.
07:38It's more important to go see the facility
07:41and see how they're operating
07:42and understand a little bit more about how it works.
07:44It's a very impressive facility.
07:45But it also happens to be a company
07:47that has an investment in the United States in Brownsville
07:49that is hopefully going to be online by 2029.
07:52So it was a good opportunity to interact with a company
07:55that's investing in expanding refining capability
07:58in the United States
07:59at the same time as a facility
08:01that I think could play a role
08:02in helping refine more crude from the Western Hemisphere,
08:05and thereby allowing the world
08:07to diversify away from the Middle East.
08:09I want to continue with this question of energy.
08:12And if you look at India recently opening up
08:15its civil nuclear sector for private investment,
08:18particularly in the small modular reactors
08:20that we're talking about,
08:21do you see now finally a breakthrough moment
08:24for American investment in technology in India?
08:27We've had incredible momentum on that.
08:29And as you know, things take time.
08:31But to the government's credit here,
08:33to Prime Minister Modi's credit,
08:34the Shanti Bill passed,
08:36which enables SMRs and private technology
08:38and this new equipment
08:41to be able to come to India.
08:44And so there has been some regulation challenges.
08:46Nothing gets done overnight.
08:47These are very complex issues.
08:48And they'll set up the relationship
08:50for decades to come, right?
08:51But India is one of the first places
08:53that the United States is looking at,
08:54possibly, to have our first SMRs internationally.
08:57And so we're on an incredible path there.
08:59We've had meetings in Washington.
09:01We've had meetings on this in Delhi.
09:02We've had some meetings right here in Mumbai
09:04because the regulatory agency for India
09:06is based here on that.
09:07So it is moving in the right direction.
09:09I do think we'll get there on that soon also.
09:12Secretary, switching subjects,
09:14we are sitting inside the Taj Mahal Palace at Yale,
09:17which was, if you recall,
09:19the center of the horrific 26-11 terrorist attacks
09:21in India in 2008.
09:23And in fact, you paid tribute to the victims of that.
09:26What is America doing to assure India
09:29that its current closer ties with Pakistan
09:32will not come at the expense of India's fight against terrorism?
09:36Well, first of all,
09:37the United States has to have a relationship
09:38with as many countries in the world as possible
09:40because we have a global presence
09:41and a global interest in anything that's going on.
09:44So our relationship with Pakistan is not new.
09:48And I think it's just developed in a way
09:50that allows us to have, hopefully,
09:52more influence over the decisions they make
09:54on a variety of topics.
09:56In no way does the relationship with Pakistan
09:58come at the expense of our relationship with India.
10:01We share the same concerns India does about terrorism.
10:03We have been victims of terrorism, as India has been,
10:06and we continue to, in fact,
10:08no country in the world does more
10:09to go after terrorism in the United States
10:11than the United States.
10:12It was the United States under President Trump
10:14that destroyed ISIS or Daesh in the Middle East.
10:16It's the United States that eroded Al-Qaeda.
10:18It's the United States that went in and eliminated Bin Laden.
10:23It's the United States that's gone in now
10:25and, unfortunately, has had to go into parts of Africa
10:27and take on these elements as well.
10:29So I don't think any country in the world
10:30has shown a greater commitment
10:32to go after the terrorism,
10:34terrorism, global terrorism,
10:35the United States has done.
10:36And that includes many of the same sort of ideologies
10:39that also threaten India.
10:40Ambassador Gore, I'd like to ask you
10:42about the defense partnerships
10:43and how far is Washington prepared
10:46to go for joint production, technology transfer,
10:50and, of course, developing advanced weapon systems.
10:52Well, look, I mean, that has existed already in India
10:55and it continues to exist.
10:56And I think it's important for your viewers to understand.
10:58Lockheed is here.
10:59Boeing is here.
10:59Co-production is happening.
11:01So jobs in the United States and jobs in India
11:03are progressing hand-in-hand
11:04on these production systems.
11:06Our defense cooperation is at an all-time high.
11:09I would say, I mean, you go just by the numbers
11:12and it is unmatched.
11:13In the last month alone,
11:15we had 500 U.S. Army soldiers here
11:16training at UTABUS.
11:18We had Tarang Shakti.
11:19The first time ever F-35s have been in India
11:22and participated in a joint exercise with the Indians.
11:24Our F-35s don't go into any nation.
11:26They go into nations we trust.
11:28They go into partners we trust.
11:29India is a very valuable partner to us in the Quad.
11:32The Secretary has had multiple meetings at his level,
11:34including, by the way, next week another one.
11:37So next week at the G-20 in Atlanta,
11:39Dr. Jashankar will be there,
11:40the Australians will be there,
11:41the Japanese will be there.
11:42We're also working towards a meeting between the leaders,
11:45including President Trump, Prime Minister Modi,
11:46in the next month.
11:48So there's a lot happening in the Quad.
11:50The fence goes hand-in-hand with the United States.
11:53India is a valued partner in that.
11:56So there's a lot happening on that front.
11:57I'm glad you mentioned the Quad
11:58because how do you see, Secretary, the Quad evolving,
12:03particularly in the face of China's growing assertiveness?
12:06And what more can India and the United States do together
12:10to secure critical supply chains
12:12and reduce their dependence on China?
12:14Well, just on the Quad point,
12:15it's a relationship and it's a construct that we've developed.
12:18It's actually the first meeting I ever did
12:20as Secretary of State.
12:21It was a Quad meeting.
12:22I think we've had more Quad meetings in the last year and a half
12:24than probably the previous four years combined
12:27at the foreign ministry level.
12:28And I understand now and we're going to have a leaders-level meeting now
12:31very shortly, probably in December at some point.
12:33And we try to arrange even more before the end of President Trump's terms.
12:37He's got two and a half years left.
12:39So this is a very important relationship.
12:41But I think it's important not just because we have four countries
12:43that are coordinated with one another.
12:45We're beginning to see outcomes.
12:46We're beginning to see results.
12:48As an example, maritime awareness,
12:50the ability to know what's happening under the water,
12:52threatening cables and so forth.
12:53This is something that the Quad is working together on
12:56and real things are happening.
12:58I think the same is true.
12:59I think it's an area of cooperation that we can have
13:01when it comes to supply chains writ large.
13:03The one thing I think is a consistent theme across the world,
13:06but certainly in the U.S.-India relationship,
13:08is we do not want to be overly dependent on any country in the world.
13:12I'm not singling out China.
13:14I'm saying any country in the world.
13:15We don't want to depend on any single country in the world
13:17for 90% of anything that's critical to our economies.
13:20And we have to have the domestic capacity
13:22to do certain things for ourselves.
13:24I think that's an interest India has.
13:26That's certainly an interest the United States has under President Trump.
13:28And I think that's something we can work together on.
13:30And that is where can we create domestic capabilities
13:35in a mutually beneficial way for both countries on various key sectors,
13:39be it artificial intelligence or technology or biomedicine or pharmaceuticals.
13:44I mean, the list goes on.
13:45And on critical minerals, obviously, everybody talks about those.
13:47And that's why I want to come to you, Ambassador.
13:49You've been instrumental in, for India, joining the PAC Silica.
13:53I think as soon as you took over, we joined that.
13:56Can India expect major American investments and technology partnerships
14:00that would help India become a key hub in terms of these strategic supply chains?
14:05Well, I think it's a great partnership.
14:07India was one of the first 10 countries that the United States invited to join PAC Silica.
14:11It's because we trust India.
14:12They're a valued partner in this supply chain.
14:14It is the reason that the Secretary is here twice in one year.
14:18I am determined to bring the highest levels of our government here
14:20so they can talk to the highest levels of your government here
14:22and identify those opportunities.
14:24As you know, in three weeks, we have the Attorney General coming here
14:27to work with the folks in Delhi.
14:30We're going to have a counter-narcotics conference in Delhi.
14:32We're bringing our DA administrator.
14:34We're bringing U.S. attorneys.
14:36We're bringing all sorts of individuals at the highest level.
14:38To me, it is important to have the highest levels of our government
14:41engaged with individuals here in India.
14:45Shifting gears a bit, Secretary Rubio,
14:47you had talked of America being in the process of re-industrializing itself.
14:53And in that context, shouldn't it be welcoming highly skilled Indian professionals
14:59as in the past rather than hiking the prices for their work visas
15:03and also for Indian students in the U.S.?
15:06Well, but that's a change in our immigration laws,
15:07and it's not one that's built on India.
15:09It's not one that's focused on India.
15:11It happens to impact Indians that want to come to the United States and work
15:14and that our businesses are trying to bring in.
15:15But it's not geared towards India.
15:17It is global.
15:18In fact, there's no meeting in the world that I do that they don't raise some visa issue.
15:22The United States has had a broken immigration system.
15:25We've had a system in which, maybe not in this program, but in others,
15:28we had 20 million people unlawfully enter the country across our border.
15:31We've had business-related immigration programs
15:35that in many cases have been rampant fraud and abuse
15:38and have been misused in ways that have not made sense.
15:40We have tensions in our own society.
15:42I mean, what country in the world people would not react
15:45if they see that some of the best jobs in the country
15:47are being taken from people that are coming from abroad?
15:49So these things have to be addressed,
15:51and we're trying to address them, but they're not aimed at India.
15:53They apply to any country, every country in the world.
15:56That's true on trade.
15:57That's true on immigration.
15:59I know that for countries that are perhaps disproportionately impacted
16:02by a policy change in the United States,
16:04it may feel like it's being targeted, but it's not.
16:07We're going to get it right,
16:08and we're going to have a system that works for our economy
16:10and for the American people.
16:11In the end, I will say this.
16:13I expect that the government of India will always put the people of India first
16:18and that you will always put the national interest of India first.
16:21But I also hope everyone understands that the United States under President Trump
16:24is going to put our people first, our workers first, and our country first.
16:28And where I think friends can work together is when there are differences on this,
16:31our existing, our common interests, our longstanding relationship,
16:35and our shared values will allow us to work through some of those differences
16:39to reach outcomes that are positive for both countries.
16:41Would you like to add anything?
16:43No, I mean, look, the Secretary is 100% right.
16:46When we talk about America first, it doesn't mean America alone.
16:49And to the Secretary's point, all these items that have changed,
16:52that have impacted India, it's not just India, it's the whole world.
16:55The United States needed to take a look.
16:56For too long, we had open borders.
16:58For too long, people were coming into the United States
17:00and taking advantage of us.
17:01We had leaders on both sides of the political aisle
17:03that did not look out for the American people,
17:05that changed them for President Trump.
17:06That doesn't mean it's targeting any individual country.
17:08We need to reset.
17:09The Prime Minister has been very clear here.
17:11India first.
17:12There's nothing wrong with that.
17:13He should be looking out for his own country.
17:15But people shouldn't be surprised that our leadership is looking out for ours.
17:18Secretary Rubio, turning to geopolitics,
17:20President Putin said yesterday that Russia was willing for a tripartite meeting
17:24with the U.S. and Ukraine over ending the war.
17:27What do you see as a realistic path to ending the Russia-Ukraine conflict?
17:32Well, it's a very difficult conflict to end.
17:34I know the President has dedicated a tremendous amount of time to it.
17:38We have people that do nothing all day but work on trying to find a way
17:41to make a difference and bridge those differences.
17:43I would just say to you that that war,
17:45while people keep talking about it's a war in Ukraine,
17:46that war is about Donbass.
17:48It's about one region of the country.
17:49At its core, it's about 11% of one part of that country
17:53that Russia wants and cannot take militarily
17:55and that Ukraine is unwilling to give up.
17:58And they have the reasons why they don't want to do that
18:01for sovereignty and their own security long term.
18:03And so the question is whether there's some accommodation
18:06that both sides will have to make some concessions
18:08in order to bring an end to the war.
18:10This war is not going to be solved militarily.
18:11This war is only going to end diplomatically.
18:13And the question is, can you arrive at an outcome
18:16in which both sides receive something, a benefit,
18:19but also give concessions and bring this to an end?
18:21So it's been difficult, but I can tell you this,
18:24as hard as it is, it is impossible to do
18:26unless both sides are at the table talking.
18:28And we're happy to play the mediating role in that regard.
18:30So that's really what we're trying to do.
18:32Not claiming that just getting them in the room
18:34is going to solve this problem,
18:35but we have no chance to solve it
18:37if we can't get them in the room.
18:38And finally, winding up, Ambassador Gore,
18:41you work very closely with President Trump.
18:44What's the secret of working successfully with the president?
18:48I don't know, I mean, look,
18:49the president is an incredible individual.
18:51I have known the president for many years.
18:53He's very direct.
18:54He expects results.
18:55And so the president is results-driven.
18:57In a similar way, by the way, that your prime minister is.
18:59He wants to move fast, and he wants to get things done.
19:02And so to me, that has been something that, frankly,
19:07I have admired about our president.
19:09Not every global leader is results-driven.
19:11A lot of people love having these press conferences
19:13and meetings after meetings after meetings.
19:15Our president wants results.
19:16He wants them done now.
19:17And his equation with Prime Minister Modi?
19:20Look, I've talked about this quite often.
19:22They're dear friends.
19:23They're dear friends, and it works well because of that,
19:25because they see eye to eye on moving the ball forward,
19:28on getting things done, on delivering, right?
19:30And so he holds the prime minister in the highest regard.
19:32They've known each other for many years.
19:34They'll continue to engage.
19:35They've had multiple phone calls in this month alone, right?
19:38And so a lot happens behind the scenes
19:39that people are not aware of,
19:40but the two leaders are constantly in contact.
19:42And, Secretary Rubio, what's your experience
19:45of working with your boss, President Trump?
19:47Well, he's a historic figure.
19:49There's no doubt about it.
19:50I think he's provided for the presidency
19:51because of, he's not an orthodox political figure.
19:54He's not a politician at all.
19:55He's a man of business whose entire life
19:58has been based on making decisions
19:59on the basis of what makes sense.
20:01But here's something else he doesn't get credit for.
20:02He's visionary.
20:03He imagines what people say is impossible.
20:06He thinks things that people say,
20:07well, we can't do it because that's never been done before.
20:09And then he achieves them, and then he does it.
20:11When you look at issue after issue
20:13what the president has pushed towards
20:14and has been able to achieve
20:16that people didn't think was possible
20:17because a traditional political figure
20:19would have never done it.
20:20So I think it's, for those of us who work for him
20:22and with him, it gives us energy to know
20:25that we have the ability to do things
20:27that you would not be able to do
20:29under someone who came from
20:30a traditional political background.
20:32And I think in the case of foreign policy
20:35and in the world and in the realm of global affairs,
20:37it's a very exciting time to be doing it.
20:39And, yes, remember this.
20:42In the future, people look back on these years
20:44and our president will be one of the greatest
20:46but also historical figures who achieved a lot.
20:49We see it happening in real time now.
20:51In the future, when people reflect on his four years,
20:54on these four years of the White House,
20:56you will see things that have been unmatched.
20:58And I was thinking of his successor,
21:01Secretary Rubio, are you going to be
21:04in the presidential ballot in 2028?
21:06Oh, I'm going to give you the same answer
21:09I've given America Media.
21:10I'm just not talking about that anymore.
21:12I've already given multiple statements
21:13in regards to that.
21:14You've only asked, this is the first time
21:15you've ever asked me
21:16because this is the first time
21:17I've ever done an interview with you.
21:18But I'm plenty focused.
21:20I have two jobs right now
21:21and they both take up all my time and energy
21:23and I'm very happy doing those jobs.
21:25All right.
21:26Secretary Rubio and Ambassador Gore,
21:28thank you very, very much for this interview.
21:39So, are the India-U.S. relations
21:42returning on an even keel?
21:44Let's open this up for a wider discussion
21:47and see where India-U.S. ties are heading.
21:50Joining me on this special broadcast,
21:52Ambassador Yash Siddhar,
21:53former Indian High Commissioner to the U.K.,
21:55was also our ambassador to Venezuela,
21:58Council General in Dubai
22:00and, of course, was heading
22:02the Pakistan-Afghanistan-Iran desk
22:04at the Ministry of External Affairs
22:06at one point of time.
22:07Also with me is Professor Brahma Chilani,
22:09one of India's foremost voices
22:10on strategy and security.
22:13Gentlemen, welcome.
22:15I want to understand from you,
22:18Ambassador Sinha,
22:19what is your reading of the conversation
22:24between India and the United States,
22:26the visit of the U.S. ambassador
22:28and their Secretary of State
22:30to Jamnagar specifically?
22:34Thank you, Gaurav,
22:35for having me on your show.
22:36I think his second visit this year
22:39is significant.
22:40The Secretary of State
22:41is a very important person
22:42in the hierarchy
22:44of the U.S. administration.
22:46And Rubio is a potential candidate
22:50for the presidency.
22:54So I think his visit is important.
22:57However, I think we should also see
22:59the context in which it is being made.
23:02We have had these ups and downs
23:04in the India-U.S. relationship
23:06over the last couple of years
23:08or a year and 10 months or so,
23:10the second term of President Trump.
23:14We've had sanctions imposed on India
23:16for buying Russian oil.
23:17And then we've had them lifted.
23:19And then we've had the Lindsey Graham bill
23:22becoming an act.
23:24And then, of course,
23:25a waiver issued by Trump.
23:27And then, to top it all,
23:29President Trump announces
23:31a diesel deal with Russia.
23:33So in this context,
23:35I think the visit to Mumbai
23:36in Jamnagar is very significant.
23:39Of course, commercial ties,
23:41defense ties, strategic ties.
23:44There was something to do
23:45with AI in Mumbai.
23:47And, of course,
23:47his counterpart,
23:48Minister Jayshankar,
23:50was there to meet him in Mumbai.
23:52But the visit to Jamnagar is very clear.
23:54Jamnagar is the biggest refinery,
23:58oil refinery in the world.
23:59And it has been for quite some time.
24:02And its ability to refine
24:04different grades of crude
24:06is particularly significant.
24:08And if you have two minutes,
24:09I just mentioned that
24:11in Venezuela, for instance,
24:13where there is a heavy crude,
24:15you know, Venezuela has
24:16the largest reserves
24:17of oil in the world,
24:19more than Saudi Arabia,
24:20more than Russia.
24:21But it has been exploited
24:24not to its optimum.
24:25in the past American companies
24:27had exploited their oil
24:30and that most of that oil
24:32would go to refineries
24:33in Louisiana,
24:35Texas,
24:35Mississippi,
24:36et cetera,
24:37on the Gulf Coast
24:38in southern United States.
24:40Now,
24:41with the sanctions
24:42on Chavez and Maduro,
24:45their regimes,
24:47the outflow of oil
24:48to these refineries
24:49had reduced considerably,
24:51down to a trickle,
24:52in fact.
24:53And perhaps it was
24:54because these refineries
24:55were not being upgraded.
24:57I'm not quite sure
24:58of the technical aspects.
24:59Jamnagar becomes
25:00extremely important.
25:02And don't forget
25:03that in the first part
25:04of the century,
25:05the first decade
25:06of the century,
25:07when I was there,
25:08for instance,
25:09from 2006,
25:102007 to 2009,
25:13their reliance
25:14was already importing
25:15over 370,000.
25:16Absolutely.
25:16Stay with me,
25:17Ambassador Sina Raj Chingappa,
25:19India Today Group's
25:20editorial director,
25:21publishing,
25:21also joins me
25:22on this broadcast.
25:23Raj, welcome.
25:25Prime Minister Modi
25:26and President Trump,
25:27they speak frequently.
25:29They're likely to meet soon,
25:30Ambassador Gore told you.
25:32But from your conversations
25:33with Secretary of State Rubio,
25:35what were your impressions?
25:37How close are we
25:38to a trade deal, sir?
25:41I mean,
25:42it's pretty evident
25:42that we are close,
25:43but there are certain points
25:44that he talked about
25:45which I had asked him
25:46which is vital to India.
25:48And one is,
25:49as Commerce Minister
25:51Piyush Gowal said,
25:52that India wants
25:53a competitive advantage
25:54with other countries
25:56of its standing,
25:57I'm not its standing,
25:58but where it competes with.
26:00And the second point
26:01was to ensure,
26:03India wants to ensure
26:05continuity
26:05and not unpredictability
26:07in terms of tariffs
26:08because that constantly shifts.
26:10You have the super
26:11or Section 301
26:12coming in
26:13and, you know,
26:15he has the option
26:15on various fronts
26:16to raise it.
26:17I think the most important message
26:18that the Secretary of State
26:21gave when he spoke
26:23to India today
26:24was that,
26:24look,
26:25that's exactly why
26:26we want a deal,
26:27that when we have this deal,
26:29we will ensure
26:30that there is continuity,
26:31that there is stability,
26:32and therefore,
26:33those doing business
26:34can not,
26:36you know,
26:37can look forward
26:37to a continuum
26:39rather than always worrying
26:40when is President Trump
26:41going to put another tariff on
26:43and, you know,
26:44change the game completely.
26:45So, I think
26:46that was the big message
26:48that was coming up
26:48on the trade front.
26:50Right.
26:50You know,
26:51and you mentioned
26:52that continuity,
26:54predictability
26:54in ties with the US
26:55is what India
26:56has been looking at.
26:57And it was there.
26:58I mean,
26:58post-Pokharan test 1998,
27:00but ever since Trump 2.0,
27:02it's quite a rollercoaster ride.
27:05Your impressions,
27:06you see that predictability
27:07and continuity
27:08return to the relationship now?
27:11Look,
27:12it's always been
27:13unpredictable
27:13on how,
27:14you know,
27:15India-US relations
27:16has been
27:17for not just for India,
27:18but across the world
27:19in terms of such a rollercoaster
27:21ride at every moment.
27:22And there is a turmoil
27:24that is on,
27:25not necessarily
27:25because of Trump.
27:26We've had
27:27and continue to have
27:28two wars
27:30progressing
27:30even as we speak.
27:32And therefore,
27:34I think the big messages
27:36that came across,
27:37one,
27:37I did ask him about
27:39the oil issue.
27:41And in some senses,
27:44what was the explanation?
27:46When we imported oil
27:47from Russia,
27:47we got penalized.
27:49But when America
27:51imports diesel
27:52from Russia,
27:53it's fine.
27:53And they also
27:54give us a waiver.
27:55So what's the logic
27:56behind it?
27:57And I think
27:58Secretary Rubio
27:58said that,
27:59look,
28:00the situation
28:00had changed.
28:01The global economy
28:02was in deep trouble,
28:04not just in America,
28:05where they are,
28:06of course,
28:06having a midterm elections
28:07and therefore diesel
28:08is important
28:09from Russia
28:10to bring down
28:11the prices.
28:11But also,
28:12he said that
28:12across the world,
28:13if we had to
28:15cool things down,
28:16because foreign policy
28:17was not just
28:18to be confrontational,
28:19but also to ensure
28:20that there is not
28:21worldwide turmoil
28:23on gas prices
28:24and everything else.
28:25So that was
28:25the rationale
28:26he gave it.
28:27Whether you agree
28:27with it or not,
28:28that is the perspective
28:29that he puts it,
28:31saying that
28:31this is an imperative
28:33now to cool the prices.
28:34Otherwise,
28:35for the sake of a conflict
28:37in Russia
28:38or in Iran,
28:39you could have
28:40the entire globe
28:41in trouble.
28:41But will it only be
28:42for 60 days
28:43or will it be
28:44for longer,
28:44the waiver?
28:45And also,
28:46you know,
28:46before I let you go,
28:47Raj,
28:47the U.S. efforts
28:49to broker peace
28:49between Russia
28:50and Ukraine,
28:51you did ask
28:52that question
28:53and Marco Rubio
28:53did indicate
28:54that concessions
28:56will have to be made
28:57on both sides
28:57on Donbass.
28:59Russia can't take it
29:00entirely by force.
29:01Ukraine can't take it
29:02back by force.
29:03Do you see concessions
29:04being made?
29:05Do you see that conversation?
29:07Is U.S. able
29:07to take it forward?
29:10No, I mean,
29:11what he did was
29:11laid down the sort of
29:12guidelines for
29:14what could be
29:14a possible settlement.
29:16He says that
29:16it has to be
29:17both sides
29:18should go back
29:19with some wins.
29:19They can't get
29:20all the wins,
29:21but they must have
29:21each of them
29:22have some satisfaction.
29:23I like the way
29:24he reduced
29:25the conflict
29:26to,
29:27in a sense,
29:29we tend to look
29:29at it as
29:30Russia wanting
29:31to take over
29:32Ukraine
29:32in all aspects
29:33of it.
29:33So he kind of said,
29:34look,
29:35Donbass is 10%,
29:3611% of Ukraine,
29:37and that's
29:38the whole battle about.
29:39It's not like
29:40we're fighting across,
29:41but of course,
29:42once that happens,
29:43Europe fears
29:44that Russia
29:45would get more
29:46and more aggressive
29:47as they did
29:47in Crimea
29:48and other places.
29:48That's a different
29:49argument altogether.
29:50But clearly,
29:51what he was saying
29:52is that one,
29:53this is not
29:54going to be a war
29:55that can be won
29:56militarily.
29:57So that's a message
29:57for Russia,
29:58that you can continue
29:59to bomb Ukraine,
30:00you can do whatever it is,
30:01but it's not going
30:02to yield at that point.
30:03The only way
30:04this can be settled
30:04is through diplomatic
30:07needs and necessities
30:08that could come through
30:09in terms of
30:11either side saying,
30:12okay,
30:12this is okay with me
30:13and this far
30:14and no further.
30:14And it's a very
30:15difficult situation.
30:16He admitted it
30:17and he said,
30:18you know,
30:18President Trump
30:19has spent many years
30:20on this.
30:21But he's hopeful
30:22that the role
30:23that America is playing
30:25right now
30:26could yield
30:27some results.
30:27But that's all.
30:28I mean,
30:29no one can say,
30:30no one can push
30:30either of these countries
30:31to peace
30:32unless they themselves
30:32feel that they've got
30:33the benefits of it.
30:34And India's been saying
30:35this all along.
30:36Dialogue and diplomacy
30:37is the only way forward.
30:38Raj Singh Appa
30:39for joining me here.
30:40And once again,
30:41many congratulations
30:41on this brilliant interview
30:43both with Marco Rubio
30:44and Sergio Gaur
30:45sitting together,
30:46two Trump insiders.
30:47Many thanks for joining me.
30:49Thanks.
30:50It's for India today
30:50and Gaurav always.
30:52Absolutely.
30:52Absolutely.
30:53Keeping India first.
30:54I want to bring in
30:55Professor Brahma Chalani
30:56into this conversation.
30:57Professor Chalani,
30:58US wants more diesel.
31:00Trump calls India
31:01the refining superpower
31:03of the world.
31:03But, you know,
31:05as Raj was also describing,
31:07we've been through
31:07this rollercoaster ride,
31:0925% additional tariffs
31:10and even now
31:11that super 301 provision,
31:14the Russian oil tariff waiver,
31:16it's only for now.
31:17You know,
31:18how do we describe
31:19the India-US relationship?
31:21Is it returning
31:22on an even keel
31:22or does it remain
31:24in the Gen Z language
31:26complicated?
31:28India and the US
31:29still need each other
31:31but the relationship
31:32must be built
31:33to a more realistic foundation.
31:36Unfortunately,
31:37there is an institutional
31:39restructuring
31:40on India
31:42that is underway
31:43in Washington.
31:44If you look at
31:45the White House's
31:46latest national security strategy,
31:48the Pentagon's
31:49most recent
31:50national defense strategy,
31:52the State Department's
31:54own five-year strategic plan
31:56and the dropping
31:58of the prefix
31:58Indo
31:59from the Indo-Pacific,
32:01also,
32:02let's not forget
32:03the Quad's marginalization
32:05in American strategy,
32:06all these five developments
32:08indicate
32:09that there is
32:11a calculated
32:13downgrading of India
32:15in US strategy.
32:17and this structural shift
32:19did not happen
32:22under Trump.
32:23It began
32:24in the latter half
32:25of the Biden
32:26administration
32:27presidency.
32:29Trump has accelerated
32:30this shift
32:31and he has stripped away
32:33much of the
32:34diplomatic cushioning
32:35that once softened
32:36bilateral differences.
32:37So,
32:39unfortunately
32:39for India,
32:41and we're seeing
32:42that since the
32:43August 2024
32:44regime change
32:45in Bangladesh,
32:46the Cold War-style
32:48regional balancing
32:49of India
32:49appears to have
32:51returned to
32:52US strategy.
32:53So,
32:54we might be
32:55focusing today
32:55on Trump
32:57or on Marco Rubio's
32:58visit to India.
32:59We should not forget
33:01the larger picture.
33:02Oh, absolutely.
33:03And the most important
33:05warning came
33:06from the number
33:07two man
33:07in the
33:09State Department,
33:10the Deputy Secretary
33:11of State,
33:12Christopher Landau,
33:13who from Indian soil
33:14in March
33:15warned that
33:16Washington does not
33:17intend to repeat
33:18is China a mistake
33:19with India.
33:20There couldn't be
33:22a more blunt warning.
33:23In fact,
33:23the China lesson
33:24seems to be
33:25at the root
33:27of the rethink
33:28in Washington,
33:29the rethink on India.
33:31India's rise
33:32is no longer
33:33being seen
33:33in Washington
33:34as entirely benign.
33:36And I think
33:36in India,
33:37we need to be
33:37more realistic
33:38about this
33:40shift in
33:41US approach
33:41toward India.
33:42Let me bring
33:43in Ambassador
33:43Sinha on this
33:44because Ambassador
33:45Sinha in this
33:46conversation with
33:46Raj Shingapa,
33:47Ambassador Gaur
33:48indicated maximum
33:50military exercises
33:51that take place
33:52take place now
33:53between US
33:53and India.
33:54He spoke of the fact
33:55that F-35s only go
33:57to trusted partners
33:58for exercises.
33:59But, sir,
34:01the delays,
34:01for example,
34:02in India's LCA
34:03program to a very
34:04large extent
34:05is because of
34:05delays in supplies
34:06of GE404 engines
34:08or US warming up
34:09to Pakistan
34:10remains another issue
34:11for us.
34:12Or,
34:13do we take it
34:14in our stride
34:15and see how
34:16we can max
34:17our development
34:18with America
34:19as much as we can
34:20and then do it
34:21on our own?
34:23Gaurav,
34:24that's a very
34:25difficult question
34:26to answer
34:26simply because
34:27I sincerely believe
34:28that the India-US
34:30relationship
34:31is the most
34:32important relationship
34:33for India.
34:33Sir,
34:34and as Professor
34:35Chalini said,
34:36not for the US
34:37in any case.
34:38And that downgrading
34:39of India
34:40has been extremely
34:41unfortunate.
34:42Be that as it may,
34:43we must understand
34:44that this administration
34:45is completely
34:46transactional.
34:47This visit of Rubio
34:49is part of that
34:50transactional exercise.
34:52So we need to
34:54sort of shed
34:54some of these
34:55shibboleths of the past
34:56and be transactional
34:58and be very clear-eyed.
35:00So if the F-35
35:02comes here,
35:02it's not because
35:03India is a trusted partner
35:05because they want
35:05to sell as many
35:07sort of aircrafts
35:10and sort of weaponry,
35:11state-of-the-art
35:12weaponry to India,
35:13but at a huge cost.
35:15And of course,
35:16keep the switch
35:18button with them.
35:19So I think
35:20we need to be
35:20very clear
35:21that we are
35:22dealing with the US.
35:23I mean,
35:25Landau was pretty
35:25clear about that.
35:27And even I remember
35:28when Trump
35:29came to power,
35:31there was this
35:31great hope in India
35:33that, you know,
35:33that love fest
35:34that happened
35:35in the first
35:36administration
35:36would be built upon.
35:38Unfortunately,
35:40while the
35:40personal relationship
35:42between the two leaders
35:43seemed to be good,
35:45but the relationship
35:46has gone downhill.
35:47So if this is
35:48an attempt
35:48to try
35:49and retrieve
35:50the relationship,
35:51it is purely
35:52on transactional terms.
35:53If you see
35:54the social media
35:55in the US,
35:56especially the
35:57MAGA crowd,
35:58you will realize
35:59what they think
36:00of India,
36:01Indian Americans
36:02and Indians
36:03in general.
36:04Oh, true.
36:05That's another cause
36:05for grave concern.
36:06But Professor Chalani,
36:08you know,
36:09for the moment,
36:09I'm limiting myself
36:10to this interview
36:11that Ratchingappa
36:12had with Sergio Gaur
36:14and with Marco Rubio.
36:16Ambassador Gaur
36:17described the SMRs
36:18or the, you know,
36:19small modular reactor
36:20cooperation between
36:21India and the US
36:22as evidence
36:23of close partnership
36:25of, you know,
36:26the fighter jets
36:27coming to India
36:28and that to state
36:28of the art F-35s
36:29for joint exercises.
36:31But how much
36:32of critical technology
36:33is being shared
36:35with India
36:35for manufacturing
36:37in India?
36:39Is US willing
36:40to partner
36:40with India
36:41or is this just
36:43they want to sell
36:44to India
36:45and as Ambassador Sina
36:46was pointing out,
36:47they want to keep
36:48the switch-on-switch-off
36:48mechanism with them
36:50that we wouldn't
36:51be able to operate
36:51the F-35s
36:52unless the Americans
36:54want us to
36:54or the delays
36:55of the G-404
36:57engine supplies.
36:58The relationship
36:59is a cause
36:59for great concern
37:00even militarily.
37:03I think transfer
37:04of technology
37:05has become
37:06a problematic area
37:08because of the
37:09rethink in Washington
37:10about India's rise.
37:12The holdup
37:14on the GE
37:15engines,
37:16as you rightly
37:17pointed out,
37:18Gaurav,
37:19has caused
37:21billions of dollars
37:22in loss
37:23to HAL.
37:25HAL has built
37:2730 airframes
37:30they're ready,
37:31they're on the
37:32tarmac,
37:33they're ready
37:34but they lack
37:34engines.
37:36Not only the Tejas-1,
37:37the Tejas-2
37:38have been delayed
37:39and even the
37:40medium combat
37:42fighter aircraft
37:43program
37:44has been delayed
37:44because once
37:46you create
37:46a delay
37:47in Tejas-1
37:49then it also
37:50impacts Tejas-2
37:52because of the fact
37:53that we put
37:54all the eggs
37:54in one basket,
37:55we put the eggs
37:56in the GE basket.
37:57But this,
37:58we think in Washington
37:59is costing India
38:01billions of dollars
38:01and worse,
38:03this has set back
38:06India's program,
38:06indigenous program
38:07by years.
38:09And it only
38:11underlines the fact
38:11that never,
38:13never should you
38:13put your
38:14strategic eggs
38:16in one basket.
38:17Now,
38:17if you look at
38:17the energy front,
38:19not many people
38:20in India seem
38:20to realize that.
38:21Since May,
38:23India has emerged
38:24rapidly as a top
38:25global buyer
38:26of U.S.
38:27sourced and U.S.
38:28controlled energy
38:28supplies.
38:29The U.S.
38:30has already become
38:31India's largest
38:31supplier of LNG
38:32and LPG.
38:34And at Washington's
38:36urging,
38:36India has also
38:37become the largest
38:38destination
38:39for Venezuela
38:40oil exports.
38:42Now,
38:44what Rubio
38:45is seeking to do
38:46is to persuade
38:48Reliance Industries,
38:50Jamnagar Refinery,
38:51to import
38:52even more,
38:53more oil
38:55from Venezuela
38:56because,
38:57first,
38:58you know,
38:58this is a very
38:58high-sulfur,
39:00extra-heavy
39:00crude oil.
39:01It's very
39:03energy-intensive,
39:05carbon-intensive,
39:06time-consuming
39:07to process
39:08this oil.
39:10It's,
39:11Reliance is
39:12one of the
39:13only refineries
39:14in the world
39:14today.
39:15True.
39:15That can actually
39:16process this kind
39:18of extra-heavy
39:20crude oil.
39:21Very rich in
39:22sulfur content.
39:23And the margins,
39:25the profit margins
39:26in refining
39:27this kind of oil
39:29are very small.
39:31And given the fact
39:32that Venezuela
39:32is located so far
39:33away from India,
39:34the landed cost
39:36is high.
39:39But because of
39:40the fact that
39:41that Venezuela oil
39:42is not controlled
39:43by the U.S.,
39:44payments for this oil
39:45go directly
39:46to the U.S.
39:47Treasury Department.
39:48They don't go
39:49to Caracas.
39:51Washington is
39:52trying to get
39:54Jamnagar
39:55to buy
39:56increasing quantities
39:57of this oil.
39:58At the same time,
40:00Washington is also
40:01seeking to
40:02accomplish another goal
40:03because
40:05to drive India
40:06further away
40:07from Russian oil,
40:09steer India
40:10further away
40:11from Russian oil
40:12will weaken
40:13the Indo-Russian
40:14relationship.
40:14So, they have
40:15a geopolitical goal
40:16but they also
40:17have the goal
40:18of getting more
40:19Venezuel oil
40:20into the world market.
40:21Ambassador Sina,
40:22you are our
40:22ambassador to
40:23Venezuela.
40:24You've dealt
40:25with this oil
40:25and apparently
40:26America also
40:27wants India
40:27to help set up
40:28or the Reliance
40:30company to help
40:31set up
40:32facilities
40:33in the United
40:34States of America
40:35in Texas
40:36to refine that oil
40:37that have been
40:39lying dormant
40:40for decades now.
40:41Now,
40:41America is trying
40:43to portray this
40:44as a win-win.
40:45Is this a win-win
40:46or as Professor
40:47Chilani points out
40:48it's pushing us
40:49away from Russia
40:50or are we saying
40:51that we'll buy
40:52from Venezuela
40:53but we will
40:54continue to buy
40:54from Russia
40:55especially with
40:56Hormuz shut?
40:59Gaurav,
40:59I think we should
41:00buy oil
41:01from wherever
41:02we get it
41:02at the best
41:04price we get it.
41:05Now,
41:05Venezuelan oil
41:06when Reliance
41:07was buying
41:08Venezuelan oil
41:0915, 16 years ago
41:10there was a model
41:12that worked.
41:13The VLCCs
41:14from the Gulf
41:14would supply
41:15oil to North America
41:17and on their return
41:19would pick up
41:20Venezuelan oil
41:21and take them
41:21to China and India
41:22mainly China
41:23and India.
41:25So that
41:25business model
41:26worked
41:27and not many
41:29refined,
41:29in fact no other
41:30refinery
41:30except ISAR
41:31if I remember
41:32correctly
41:32could refine
41:34the heavy crude
41:35that Venezuela
41:36has.
41:37So as a result
41:38it became a win-win
41:41situation for Reliance
41:42because they were
41:43able to get
41:44the transportation
41:45costs were minimized
41:46and even though
41:47the distance was large
41:48it was able to get
41:50oil from various
41:51other sources
41:52and for us
41:53with the
41:54Strait of Hormuz
41:56as a choke point
41:57and now the
41:58Bab al-Mandeb
41:59as a choke point
42:00and pressure
42:01on not to buy
42:02Russian oil
42:03I think buying
42:04Venezuelan oil
42:05is welcome
42:05as long as
42:06it is
42:07at the rates
42:09which are
42:10as far as
42:11we are concerned
42:12competitive.
42:13So if it is
42:14for instance
42:15much more expensive
42:16than Russian oil
42:17then I think
42:18we must take a call
42:19whether it's really
42:20worthwhile or not
42:21but I'm not
42:22the energy expert
42:23I'm sure
42:23the government
42:24and the experts
42:25will take a
42:26very informed
42:27position in our
42:28national interest
42:29but I think
42:30as I said earlier
42:31it is a transactional
42:32relationship
42:32the very fact
42:34that he went
42:35to Jamnagar
42:36speaks for itself
42:37so I think
42:38we need to be
42:40a bit wary
42:41and you haven't
42:42mentioned the trade deal
42:43but I think
42:44we need to be wary
42:45at all fronts
42:46and as far as
42:47defence supplies
42:48are concerned
42:49I mean we have
42:50there are many
42:51other
42:52sort of manufacturers
42:53may not be
42:54as good
42:55perhaps state of the art
42:56of the US
42:57but certainly
42:58competitive
42:58and perhaps
42:59even
43:00priced less
43:02so we must
43:03really
43:03sculp
43:04the international
43:05market
43:05and buy
43:06whatever
43:06we need
43:07under the
43:09best terms
43:10and conditions
43:11that we can
43:12obtain
43:12especially
43:13at a time
43:14Professor Chilani
43:15when we burnt
43:15our fingers
43:16once
43:171998
43:18Pokhran test
43:19and we were
43:19all young
43:20reporters
43:20that time
43:211998
43:21Pokhran test
43:23the sanctions
43:23that were put
43:24on India
43:24our entire
43:25Seeking and
43:26Sea Harrier
43:27fleet
43:27was grounded
43:28because America
43:29and England
43:30wouldn't provide
43:31us spares
43:32that point of
43:33time
43:33both of you
43:34would remember
43:34that incident
43:35we burnt
43:36our fingers
43:36the LCA
43:37program
43:37suffered
43:37because of
43:38US sanctions
43:39through the
43:40early 1990s
43:41through the
43:42mid 1990s
43:43and early 2000s
43:44isn't it
43:45Professor Chilani
43:46Gaurav
43:47you know
43:47in fact
43:48you have
43:48mentioned
43:48the watershed
43:50moment
43:50in India's
43:51rise
43:51people talk
43:52about
43:52India's
43:52rise
43:53India has
43:54been rising
43:54under three
43:55successive
43:55prime ministers
43:56Rajvaj Bhai
43:56Manmohan Singh
43:57and Modi
43:58but the
43:59watershed
43:59moment
43:59was
44:00India's
44:01strategic
44:01defiance
44:01in 1998
44:02in carrying
44:03out those
44:04tests
44:04those tests
44:05ironically
44:06set in motion
44:07the process
44:08for the US
44:09to lift
44:10the technology
44:11sanctions
44:11against India
44:12that Washington
44:13had maintained
44:15for nearly
44:16three decades
44:17since the early
44:181970s
44:19since the
44:20first
44:20program
44:21test
44:22and then
44:22the first
44:23program test
44:24these technology
44:26sanctions
44:26that came
44:27into
44:28force
44:29against India
44:29it took
44:30India's
44:31own nuclear
44:32weapons
44:32defiance
44:34to declare
44:34itself
44:34as a
44:35nuclear
44:35weapons
44:35state
44:36that resulted
44:37in a
44:37fundamental
44:38shift
44:39in the US
44:39thinking
44:40about India
44:40today too
44:41India needs
44:43to do
44:44what is
44:45essential
44:46for its
44:47own
44:47long-term
44:47interests
44:48absolutely
44:49because
44:501998
44:50lesson
44:51is very
44:52clear
44:53will the
44:54equation
44:54change
44:55post
44:56the
44:563rd
44:56of
44:56November
44:57midterm
44:57elections
44:58Ambassador
44:59Sina
44:59in the
44:59last
45:0030 seconds
45:00I have
45:00on this
45:01part of
45:01show
45:01Prime
45:02Minister
45:02Narendra
45:03Modi
45:03very proudly
45:04speaks
45:04of
45:04India
45:05first
45:06Donald
45:06Trump
45:07speaks
45:07of
45:07America
45:08first
45:09can
45:09both
45:09go
45:10hand
45:10in
45:10hand
45:11well
45:12they
45:12certainly
45:13can
45:13go
45:13hand
45:13in
45:14hand
45:14if
45:14the
45:15US
45:15side
45:16is
45:16more
45:16sensitive
45:17about
45:17our
45:17priorities
45:18and
45:18our
45:19sort
45:20of
45:20compulsions
45:20however
45:21I don't
45:22think
45:223rd
45:22November
45:23will
45:23cause
45:24a
45:24drastic
45:25change
45:25in
45:26US
45:26policy
45:27towards
45:27India
45:27even
45:28if
45:29the
45:29Republicans
45:29lose
45:30badly
45:30but
45:31the
45:31fact
45:32is
45:32that
45:32President
45:33Trump
45:33will
45:33be
45:34in
45:34the
45:34saddle
45:35for
45:35another
45:35year
45:36plus
45:37so
45:37I
45:37think
45:37we
45:38need
45:39to
45:39be
45:39very
45:39wary
45:40about
45:41any
45:42outreach
45:43that
45:43happens
45:43we
45:44must
45:44welcome
45:45any
45:45improvement
45:47in
45:47terms
45:47of
45:47not
45:48just
45:48the
45:48semantics
45:49in
45:49the
45:49atmosphere
45:50but
45:50also
45:51in
45:51content
45:51and
45:52as
45:52I
45:52said
45:53we
45:53need
45:54to
45:54be
45:54as
45:54transactional
45:55as
45:55the
45:55Americans
45:56Oh
45:56absolutely
45:57Professor
45:58Chilani
45:58and Ambassador
45:59Sina as
45:59always
46:00many
46:00thanks for
46:01joining me
46:01here on
46:02India
46:02First
46:03there is
46:03an old
46:04Arab
46:04saying
46:06bring
46:06your
46:07hearts
46:07together
46:08but
46:08keep
46:09your
46:09tents
46:10apart
46:10and
46:11with
46:11the
46:12United
46:12States
46:12of
46:12America
46:13and
46:13the
46:13transactional
46:14relationship
46:14that's
46:15a
46:15lesson
46:16India
46:16can
46:17ill
46:17afford
46:18to
46:18forget
46:18the
46:19BrahMos
46:20supersonic
46:20cruise
46:20missile
46:21that
46:21battered
46:22multiple
46:22Pakistan
46:23air force
46:23bases
46:24during
46:24Operation
46:24Sindhur
46:25will now
46:26entirely be
46:28made in
46:29India
46:29It is
46:30a
46:30Russia
46:31India
46:31joint
46:32partnership
46:32project
46:33but
46:33the
46:33next
46:33big
46:34move
46:34is
46:34total
46:35indigenization
46:36of this
46:36project
46:37and of
46:37course
46:37the
46:38longer
46:38range
46:39BrahMos
46:39missile
46:40the
46:40NG
46:41new
46:41generation
46:41BrahMos
46:42with an
46:42extended
46:43range
46:44lighter
46:44and
46:45deadlier
46:46multiple
46:47missiles
46:48can be
46:48now put
46:49on the
46:49hard
46:50points
46:50of
46:50fighter
46:50jets
46:51for
46:51future
46:52operations
46:52the
46:53BrahMos
46:53CEO
46:54Dr.
46:54Jaitir
46:55Joshi
46:55speaks
46:56exclusively
46:57for the
46:57first
46:58time
46:58on
46:58the
46:59missile
46:59and
46:59the
47:00supersonic
47:00modernization
47:01flight path
47:02and of
47:03course
47:03sail
47:03to
47:04multiple
47:04countries
47:05in the
47:05region
47:06there is
47:06growing
47:06demand
47:07for the
47:07BrahMos
47:08supersonic
47:08cruise
47:09missile
47:09because
47:09it was
47:10seen
47:11in
47:11action
47:11during
47:12Operation
47:13Sindhur
47:13so
47:14from
47:14battlefield
47:15precision
47:15to
47:16next
47:16generation
47:17firepower
47:17get the
47:18BrahMos
47:19CEO's
47:20exclusive
47:20assessment
47:22on what
47:23lies ahead
47:24in this
47:24exclusive
47:25interview
47:25with my
47:26colleague
47:27Manjit
47:27Negi