- 2 days ago
When elected representatives take aim at each other in Parliament, where do we draw the line between political picong and personal humiliation?
Sport and Youth Affairs Minister Phillip Watts is facing criticism over remarks about the appearance and sexual conduct of female parliamentarians during the Budget debate.
But this controversy raises a wider question about sexism, homophobic rhetoric and the language used by those entrusted with public office.
We go Beyond the Headlines, with Crystal Brizane, advocate, attorney and former head of Caribbean Association for Feminist Research and Action Trinidad and Tobago.
Sport and Youth Affairs Minister Phillip Watts is facing criticism over remarks about the appearance and sexual conduct of female parliamentarians during the Budget debate.
But this controversy raises a wider question about sexism, homophobic rhetoric and the language used by those entrusted with public office.
We go Beyond the Headlines, with Crystal Brizane, advocate, attorney and former head of Caribbean Association for Feminist Research and Action Trinidad and Tobago.
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NewsTranscript
00:14parliament is the arena where elected representatives are expected to debate policy challenge the
00:22government and hold each other accountable on behalf of the people they serve but in recent
00:27days remarks made during the 2027 budget debates have reignited concerns about the language used
00:34inside the lower house particularly comments targeting women parliamentarians and their
00:40perceived sexual morality the controversy surrounding minister of sport and youth affairs
00:46philip watts has drawn criticism from women in politics and the women parliamentarians of tnt
00:53and beyond this latest incident trinidad and tobago does have a history of parliamentary exchanges
00:59in which gender sexuality and personal characteristics have been used as weapons in political conflict
01:07so when does political peacock become sexism or homophobic rhetoric what responsibility do the
01:15speaker political leaders and individual mps have to ensure their parliamentary debate remains
01:22respectful and what message does this behavior send to women and members of the lgbtq community
01:31who are seeking equal representation and dignity joining us to examine these questions is crystal
01:37brazan advocate attorney and former chair of kafra tt crystal i know you're no stranger to tv6 but
01:44welcome to be on the head thank you very much for having me so where where do we start did
01:49you did
01:50you get sight or did person send to you that comment made by mp and minister philip watts most definitely
01:58person sent me the comments and when i went on to social media i saw an explosion of comments surrounding
02:07his presentation in the parliament and there it was mixed some they liked that drama they like that kind of
02:17bacchanal and some like myself were thinking what is the relevance of this what does that have to do
02:25with your portfolio minister as the minister of youth affairs and sport how are we advancing that
02:31particular conversation i i didn't see what it added to the debate what concerned you most about the remarks
02:38what concerned me tremendously was his attack on the morality of the um female members on the other side
02:50um as though that was some kind of disqualifying factor or quality um for them being members of parliament
03:00um and this is something that often happens in women in parliament and women in politics which is another
03:10reason why some women who may want to become involved in politics may shy away from it of course some
03:18may
03:18argue crystal that that parliamentary peacock has always been a part of our political culture but not just in
03:25parliament i think picon as a whole you know and even when we talk about this many out there will
03:33be
03:33seeing i'm sure something like um when mp young would have made his sammy remark was was it okay then
03:41um we also had uh former prime minister dr keith rowley cautioning women you know who who they have in
03:48their bedrooms these types of remarks is it okay was it okay then is it okay now where do we
03:59draw the
04:00distinction between robust political banter and language that demeans or sexualizes other parliamentarians
04:08it wasn't okay then and is certainly not okay now i mean we in trinidad tobago we enjoy as you
04:15see a
04:16bit of picon we don't want our politicians to be too straight laced we like that kind of charisma we
04:22like that back and forth but we must those politicians must be aware that there's a line that they cannot
04:27cross and most certainly um the honorable mr watts would have crossed that line most certainly um former
04:34prime minister um keith rowley and stuart young would have crossed lines as well um and there was an uproar
04:42when they would have made those previous statements and what the question that i always ask is how are
04:49those statements advancing um our political discourse is it adding to um is it is is it adding to the
05:00upliftment of our society in fact it is not um it is only um stoking a kind of rhetoric that
05:08is becoming
05:09dark and very confrontational um it is very disappointing does it matter that these remarks
05:18are made inside the parliament as opposed to you know on a political platform in an interview on social
05:25media once it comes from these persons of of of high profile i think that when the comments are made
05:34for example on a political platform um persons may get caught up in the heat of the moment you know
05:41in and and and someone may as the young people may say catch a stray right but in itself in
05:49having that
05:50kind of banter and even on the political hustings as a politician or as a potential politician one must
05:58be aware that there's a line that you cannot cross and you certainly should not use the cover of
06:04parliamentary privilege privilege sorry to cross that line so outside or inside a parliament it is
06:11unnecessary is not okay it is irrelevant it's it adds nothing to the discourse does it matter if if it's
06:20a
06:20male or female making these types of remarks i think um again it is inexcusable but when it is um
06:31comments
06:32directed by a male politician towards their female um their female colleagues it really harkens back to
06:43the whole patriarchy of it all the built-in misogyny because why must they feel those male
06:50politicians that they can even comment on a woman's body much less their their female colleagues that
06:56that it's out of order and it is unnecessary and similarly um when our goodly prime minister um she
07:04made a comment across the aisle at um mr young calling him you know small pen yes unnecessary it added
07:13nothing to the debate um as politicians these are people who are of a certain um status in society
07:23these are people who our young persons may wish to emulate or look up to and what is the message
07:30that
07:30we're sending to our young people what are they trying to do when they use these methods they're trying
07:38diminish the they're trying to demean their their political opponents they are trying to um dismiss
07:45them as you say demean them um they are trying to disqualify um their quality their qualities their
07:55characteristics um in a very personal and targeted way i mean we could argue they could argue policies
08:02all day long if you have facts on your side why do you need to stoop to that level
08:11you're making some some good points and it makes me wonder crystal are we an overly sexual society that
08:20we resort to these methods or is is it a global thing i in terms of the overly sexual society
08:29um
08:30um we can say yes or no but what i see this being um a signal of is that there
08:39is a certain level of
08:40immaturity to our politics that when they are in the heat of the moment they descend to this base level
08:51um there's a saying that you know if you go lower i will drag you to hell and they are
08:57in
08:57the pits i mean they they take it very very below the belt and it is very unnecessary and it
09:04is
09:04disappointing um and i think that they need to both sides but particularly the ruling party only because
09:13they held themselves up to be better than the previous political um government regime that we had
09:22they held themselves out to be an improvement but in terms of this political rhetoric where is the
09:28where is the improvement if you have a particular course that you want this nation to go down
09:36why would you resort to this name calling to this bullying to this confrontational stance there's
09:43nothing consolatory about it which again is baffling to me are we seeing on the other extreme
09:55that it doesn't matter crystal if
10:00forgive my language if there is in fact a political orgy taking place if in fact um there's infidelity
10:07taking place you know one former parliamentarian said who somebody sleeps with shouldn't impact what
10:14goes on inside of the house does it matter or on the moral line um when you raise those things
10:24it begs the question for me so what and what if that is happening and what if um adults engage
10:33in
10:34whatever their behavior um the behavior that they want to engage in as long as it is as it is
10:40not
10:41illegal as long as it is not contravening some law why does that affect their ability to govern to be
10:51accountable to the public to account for public monies um if it infringes on that then you know
11:00certainly that can be called into question but i am um as i said i i am at a loss
11:06as to why the
11:08minister found it necessary to make those remarks especially in this particular context where um
11:17there have been um complaints about our the behavior of our young people that they are disrespectful
11:25um that they uh they no longer respect authority how can they be expected to respect authority when the
11:35authority do not even respect their own colleagues i was about to ask um these comments were many of
11:44them that we cited were made inside parliament does it make it more concerning now given that these elected
11:51representatives are expected to set an example for the wider society the younger generation as you
11:57mentioned it it is disturbing and what is even more disturbing is the portfolio that the minister holds
12:03which is a minister of youth and sports affairs this is the person for youth we recognize that we have
12:11been having issues with our youth for the past i would say generation 25 years 30 years um in terms
12:20of
12:20behavioral issues how does that move the conversation forward is he accounting to us in terms of um what
12:28what are the policies in place for um remedial work in terms of our youth that that are falling behind
12:35homework centers extracurricular activities what is the gap that is being filled with the removal of the
12:42my lab program of the um cc all of those things again it is irrelevant those remarks that he made
12:51about his
12:52female colleagues i i still don't see how it had any alignment with whatever message he wants to push in
12:59terms of youth and sport affairs now let's widen the discussion a bit because it's not just targeting women we've
13:07seen
13:08a lot of um homophobic rhetoric crystal trinidad and tobago has seen previous exchanges within the parliament
13:15where politicians used gender expressions or perceived sexuality to ridicule opponents what makes this
13:24form of political attack damaging um because for example and it happens again on both sides of the aisle
13:33when they throw bombs at the opposite side in terms of questioning a man's gender um his sexual orientation um
13:45asking him
13:47where he if his wig is too tight where um where he sourced those clothes it it what they are
13:54seeking to do
13:55is to challenge his masculinity and of course we know um be it um good or bad that caribbean men
14:07trinidad
14:08trinbegonian men they they hold their masculinity there and when someone challenges that um it is really
14:17below the belt and they feel particularly affronted so it is meant to be a very um
14:25a very pejorative insult if we could just go back to minister what's a bit we did see during the
14:33standing finance committee stage of the proceedings when his line item came up the opposition did not
14:40pose any questions to him you know as a response to what he said earlier was that the right thing
14:49did
14:50do you feel that they this may not quite be your realm but do you feel that they abdicated their
14:55responsibility or should they have just gone hard i saw that today and i i didn't understand why they
15:03did it in in a way i can see that it's a kind of silent protest maybe against him individually
15:09for the
15:10remarks that he made but at the same time they have a purpose as the opposition and they have a
15:15purpose within
15:16this particular um discussion debate which is to ask for the ministers to account for the spending of
15:24the public purse to account to the nation for how it intends to deal with the respective portfolios of
15:34their different ministries and um i i would have wanted to see them um take him to task be unaffected
15:43by not for his reason not for his um not for his remarks per se not as retaliation right but
15:51generally
15:51for the portfolio that he holds youth youth affairs how how can this language reinforce the stigma
16:01against lgbtqi people beyond parliament particularly among young people who may be already experiencing
16:09bullying and discrimination it is not a good example at all because it this kind of rhetoric becomes
16:17normalized right because if our um elected leaders are saying these things to each other in public
16:24then what prevents a teenager a prepubescent um young person from hurling these insults at their
16:32classmates at their family members um the our officials they they need to be cognizant of the fact
16:41that they hold a particular place in society um they are very visible that the public is watching them
16:51our youth are watching them and they need to set a proper example i i have children there's no way
16:59that
17:00um i would say to them okay yes this is an example that you should emulate there is no way
17:07because first of
17:09all they they wouldn't even speak like that to a classmate and um for our elected official officials
17:16to do that is is really disappointing now we did see in the stuart young incident the zammy remark he
17:25was
17:25made to apologize he apologized to the house but not to the person who he to whom he directed those
17:32comments
17:32and apology was still proffered in a parliamentary setting should should the speaker in your in your
17:43opinion or the standing orders call for how should i see it um not just apologies but it should there
17:52be
17:53lines drawn as to what is considered parliamentary language and what is not but you see the thing is
18:00it it falls to a large extent on the speaker um in the last um iteration of that particular parliament
18:11the speaker was um miss um bridgette annisette george and she insisted that um mr stewart young
18:23render an apology she insisted and when he proffered one that
18:27she felt was not um sufficient she made him apologize again um i i am not sure that we would
18:37see a similar um compulsion from this current speaker i i could be wrong but um based on what i
18:46have seen so
18:47far in the various debates um i i don't see how um how mr singh would reign in his you
18:56know
18:56and that's why i asked the question about the standing orders about rules and parliamentary language
19:03so it's not just up to the person holding the seat of the speaker or well i don't expect that
19:10type of
19:10language to happen in the upper house but you know should it be more rule-based um
19:18um it it can be because then you can point a a written um policy and say okay well you
19:26are contravening
19:27this particular policy or particular standing order based on your speech i am not sure because i'm not
19:33familiar um with the various standing orders i am not sure what obtains um currently if there are even
19:42such standing orders i i am not sure um but if there isn't certainly you know um it can be
19:48looked
19:48into in terms of implementation when it happened no standing orders were cited by the opposition they
19:54raised no standing orders so i myself have not looked at it i'll be honest but um you know i
20:02assume if
20:03there were at least against discrimination if you're discriminating against women if you're discriminating
20:08against the lgbtqiq lgbtqi community it would have been cited but um the prime minister also
20:16responded to the watts controversy and that also attracted criticism from the opposition leader how
20:23important is it for political leaders to make it clear within their parties that respect for women
20:30and minority groups is not a partisan issue it is extremely important um because
20:38as the political leader the honorable prime minister has a very um large responsibility in terms of um ensuring
20:51that her her party her um ministers the members of her cabinet act in a particular way act in a
21:01way
21:01that um inspires confidence act in a way that is respectful i mean we we could disagree all day long
21:10obviously there would be disagreements between the unc and the pnm they have been rivals for how many years
21:17but you can certainly disagree in a respectful manner so there should be accountability within the political
21:23parties absolutely absolutely how finally crystal what would you say to young women and the lgbtqiqi community
21:32citizens who are watching these exchanges um i can imagine that it would be disheartening
21:41because again you look to our leaders for inspiration
21:47um you look to our leaders for some kind of hope and when you see them going at it in
21:54this way
21:55um it it as i said it could be a bit daunting but i would tell them to look within
22:03their you know personal
22:04spaces see if there's someone who they can talk to someone who can support them um and um
22:12um don't let this in terms of this kind of rhetoric um really bring them down really you know get
22:22them
22:22too depressed what kind of wider society do i know i said finally but what kind of wider society do
22:29what
22:30can advocates do persons who this does not sit well with what can they do i mean well we can
22:36continue
22:37to speak up in civil society we've been speaking ad nauseam on so many issues including the political
22:45rhetoric rhetoric because we have seen it going down um for a while now um and this is not something
22:53that we would want as um a democracy as a vibrant democracy which is what we have here you know
23:06in
23:07different um discourse we want that kind of conversation but we must also be aware that we
23:14should have um that conversation in a respectful and measured way and when we see these videos either
23:24the actual statement or responses to the statement do we just ignore it swipe by i'll tell you something
23:31vashi it it it it it becomes overwhelming after um sometime because it is recurring it is constant
23:40um it would be so amazing if both sides can come together on a bipartisan um um in a bipartisan
23:51way
23:52and say okay you know what we were we are going to take the high ground um let us see
23:59how we can
24:01you know probably clearly slate start fresh because i would think that both would pnm and unc would
24:09want to see the advancement of trinidad and tobigo that that would be their core mission and objective
24:15so crystal brazan attorney advocate and former chair of kafra tt i want to thank you so much for
24:21joining us beyond the headlines for taking us beyond the headlines because robust debate is essential to
24:27democracy but disagreement over policy and political performance should not require the humiliation of
24:34individuals on the basis of their gender appearance sexuality or private lives the challenge is now
24:41whether parliament and its political leaders will ensure that standards of dignity and accountability
24:47apply consistently regardless of party affiliation i'm orvashi tuwari rubnarine thanking you crystal for
24:54joining us and joining us and sharing your views and thanking our viewers for going beyond the headlines
24:58it's back to disha after the break