00:00In the context as well of the crucial electoral process that is said to take place on Brazil on upcoming
00:08Sunday for the run-off election between president and re-election candidate Luis Inácio Lula da Silva and his rival,
00:18the far-right leader for the moment, Flavio Bolsonaro, in a very tight and with much expectations.
00:27As well, in this very context, we have a special guest. We were trying to make a connection with him
00:34a few moments ago, but we were having technical difficulties.
00:37He's back with us. His name is Lua Cruz, director of the organization Fighting Against Big Tech Companies.
00:46Precisely, he has been one of the main organizers of several demonstrations that have been taking place and are set
00:52as well to keep taking place at MEDA's headquarters in Sao Paulo.
00:57Precisely, regarding the threats that have been posed on the nation in the digital sphere.
01:03So, Lua, welcome back to From the South. Now I think that we have connected at this moment.
01:13Hi, Alejandra. So, this week we had this huge demonstration in front of MEDA's headquarters in Sao Paulo, and I
01:22think it's the biggest in Latin America.
01:23We gather over 2,000 people from social movements, student unions, congresspeople from left-wing parties, and not only people
01:34that were concerned by the MEDA's interference in our elections,
01:38but also people who were themselves affected by having their accounts suspended, accounts banned, there were some limits on their
01:50reach, postings disappearing,
01:53they weren't able to like, to share, to save.
01:59So, also, we saw not only the banned accounts and comments disappearing, but also the functionalities, like the simple functionalities
02:09in these accounts, they were disabled, or they were malfunctioned.
02:14And not only that, the most important thing is we did our investigation here at Control Z, the organization that
02:22I led,
02:22and we discovered that 9 out of 10 contents and accounts that were suffering with this problem were pro-Lula
02:31accounts and pro-Lula posts.
02:33So, we are seeing not only interference in the electoral debate and public debate, but interference within a specific target.
02:44And this is not only confirmed by our research and investigation, but also we discovered this week that some internal
02:56messages from employees,
02:58they were also saying the same stuff, saying, hey, we are doing harm to Lula's campaign and it's different from
03:05what we are doing with Bolsonaro.
03:07So, it's not only, we are seeing these discussions on allegedly interference, it's not allegedly, they are interfering.
03:15We have the data, we have the documentations, we have these conversations from the Meta employees in Brazil.
03:22So, that's why we went to the Meta headquarters to protest.
03:28But not only that, we went there to gather people to talk about the issue, and we tried to send
03:33a letter to Conrado Lester,
03:36which is the head of the country manager in Brazil for Meta, and they didn't want to receive us.
03:43They sent us to the garage to receive the letter by a building employee, and we refused to do that
03:51because with several people,
03:53with thousands of people in front of the headquarters, we don't think that it was fair to put us in
03:59the garage to receive the document
04:00that we prepared with all the data that we gathered.
04:06So, that was it. And we'll still go and keep up with these protests and with these demonstrations,
04:12and filing petitions and filing documentations to prove that we are suffering from interference from these big attacks in Brazil.
04:23Why defending digital sovereignty is also a way of protecting democracy in Brazil at these crucial hours?
04:34It's important because we are trapped in these big tech companies, in these big tech apps.
04:41So, now it's time to rule against them, not only to regulate, but also to find ways of getting out
04:47of here,
04:48getting out of this trap, getting out of these walled gardens.
04:54We were, how can I say this, but we were, they said for a long time, for a long time,
05:02for several years,
05:03that social media and these social networks, like dominated by these tech oligarchs, was the public sphere,
05:11was like the place where we could chat and exchange ideas and so on.
05:15But now we are seeing this is not a public sphere, it's a shopping mall, and they are the owners,
05:20and they have their own interests, not only on democracy, but also the financial interests, the economic interests,
05:30and they have really nice friends, right?
05:33So, here in Brazil, we know that the far right is well aligned with big tech companies.
05:38The same happens in the US, in Colombia, in all the places that far right are winning elections.
05:44If they don't want to lose in Brazil, of course, Brazil is the largest democracy in the region,
05:50and I lose a lot for them here, it could be backfire in elsewhere.
05:55So, they are doing all that they can to try to minimize all the impact in all the discussions that
06:02we are trying to do,
06:03and trying to put up on the discussion on tech sovereignty and digital sovereignty,
06:08which is also the same as important as the common and the old sovereignty.
06:15So, this is a really important aspect of this right now, not only for Brazil and for the region, but
06:20for the world.
06:21The world is watching this election, and the world is hoping, and the democratic world is expecting that Lula wins
06:28this election,
06:28because it's not only going to be a win for Bolsonaro, it's going to be a win for the big
06:34tech companies,
06:35and for all of them that are trying to suppress the political discourse that is rising in the second round
06:42in Brazil.
06:43Lula, thank you very much for your time from the south, and also for giving us an important insight
06:49of what is at stake in Brazil in this crucial democratic process that you're undergoing at this hour. Thank you.
06:58You're welcome. Thank you.
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