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It's one of the most recognizable guitars in rock history. Explore the fascinating journey of David Gilmour's 'Black Strat', a heavily modified instrument that shaped the sound of Pink Floyd and later fetched a world-record price at auction.
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00:00So we're here today at Christie's with Amelia Walker of Christie's and with a guitar which
00:06for any Pink Floyd fan or indeed any fan of classic rock needs a little introduction but
00:11nonetheless we can say that this isn't the first time that Christie's have had
00:16seen this guitar in its in its care. So Amelia tell me a little bit about the original sale of
00:24this guitar and how it sort of fits in with the Jim Irsay collection. Well you're absolutely right
00:29we are delighted to have it back for a second time in seven years. First sold obviously from
00:35David Gilmore's own collection in 2019 and we were super lucky to have a full exhibition here
00:41in London before it went for auction in New York. But in New York it was obviously subject to a
00:46frenzied bidding war with I think more than 30 people competing for it. Finally knocked down to
00:52Jim Irsay who was I think I can really openly say so proud of having acquired this guitar it was
00:58like
00:59the jewel in his crown of his collection he loved it. It I think sold for just under four million
01:05dollars and set a new world record for a guitar at auction ever when it sold in 2019 and it
01:12was
01:12something that he loved for everything it represented about music but also and David Gilmore's
01:18creativity and what he produced. But it was also something that he really wanted to continue to be
01:23played and he really generously lent it out on exhibition for people to just see but also he
01:30put on his own rock concerts with his band the Jim Irsay band and the Black Strat was actually played
01:36by
01:36Kenny Wayne Shepherd. So it had it has continued to be played but it really was like one of the
01:44most
01:44beloved things in his collection and Jim Irsay was you know not only you know the CEO of the Colts
01:51a passionate sports fan but a really passionate music fan and a musician himself. I think he would
01:58never have claimed to be a musician of the kind of caliber of David Gilmore and actually I think he
02:02mainly played acoustics but he wanted to share his passion with the world and he wanted people to have
02:09access to these things and so you know he was very proud to own it. I mean you also oversaw
02:16the
02:17Jeff Bexell last year and one of the things that's really interesting about guitars which have
02:22had a long and storied life in the hands of touring musicians is how chopped and changed on a very
02:28pragmatic basis they become because these aren't kind of museum grade instruments in the sense of total
02:34originality. They have a quite a complex layered history in terms of the modifications and so on so
02:39I mean looking at this one this this is a 69 older body I believe 68 69 and the modifications
02:48kind of go
02:49from there really because as you can see there's this bit of forearm wear that reveals that it was
02:55originally a sunburst and so the black finish which is so iconic isn't the original the scratch plate that
03:02kind of makes that look work with the white pickup covers came in 74 and it's actually it's a really
03:08thick single ply um example and and it kind of goes on and on from there I mean what I
03:14find fascinating
03:15about it is you know David Gilmore is known for his tone and when we talk about like high-end
03:21luthiery
03:21we talk about um you know instruments that really sing we we think about them as being lovingly crafted
03:28and and sort of unsullied but this thing has had so many quite sort of rough modifications made made in
03:35the field as it were on it so I think you can see that where there was a rack for
03:38a Kala trem of all
03:39things right here that's that's reverted back to the sort of bent steel saddle um fender unit with of
03:45course the short vibrato arm there and there's a sort of raft of things which are harder to um spot
03:52like
03:53for example the three-way selector that would have been original to the guitar got changed in 85 to the
03:57far
03:57more practical five-way um it's really interesting and entirely predictable for such a well-played
04:04guitar but it's really interesting to see all the play we're here it's got about 100 dings and
04:10in the best possible sense and and even the neck which you know sometimes stays original on fenders
04:17has been changed quite a lot hasn't it I think this is its seventh neck
04:22but it's the neck that's been on it for 25 years so which in itself is astounding to think that
04:28this
04:28guitar has been being used for you know since 1970 when when he first bought it from manny's um having
04:36had his other it's early backstrap stolen um and it I mean it's funny to think that in this guys
04:43it's it
04:46wasn't in this state when he you know for those four kind of epic cornerstone albums of the 70s of
04:52pink
04:52floyd yeah um but as you were saying in terms of the tone like it's him no matter what he's
04:58playing
04:59anyway it's in the fingers so yeah I mean it had um it's had that that funny um xlr in
05:07the side you can
05:08sort of feel where he's then filled it in and again seven necks as I say a different um neck
05:15plate
05:15on the back with a different serial number I mean it's a lot loads of different pickup configurations
05:19I think there's a humbucker in at one point but it's still him it still sounds like him
05:23absolutely and I love the way that with these instruments it's all led by
05:27play and need rather than some yeah some sort of um collector's reverence for yeah for the
05:32originality of the instrument it was it was literally very very pragmatic and um I mean the bridge
05:37pickup's a good example of that that was originally well it was it was the original was swapped out
05:42for a dimazio fs1 which then became um uh seymour duncan ssl1c um later in in um gilmore's use of
05:51the
05:51guitar which I think is what's currently on there these two pickups I believe were from 71
05:56and um and the list goes on really I mean it's um it's such a movable feast this guitar and
06:01where
06:02I just remembered about this little tiny switch here yeah which I think connects those two yes
06:08that's right to give you give you another total option there it is very interesting isn't it and
06:13the fact that um you know the probably the two most well-known albums that this guitar appeared on
06:21um dark side and wish you were here it would have had a rosewood board neck on at that time
06:25and originally would have been a large headstock um neck so it doesn't even look like anything like it
06:31came out of the factory and yet how does something that which has changed so many times become iconic
06:36well exactly exactly it's well it is so imbued with everything that he has done and to fans it is
06:45it's kind of it's not a relic it's like almost like an idol an icon you know to to the
06:51fans that to
06:51david gilmore's fans and pink floyd's fans um we're delighted to have it and we are so lucky to
06:57have been entrusted with it again by jim mercy's estate we're really thrilled and this must undoubtedly
07:03be a centerpiece of the sale totally i mean it is there's a there's a handful of talisman if you
07:09will call them that um at this sort of level in the collection in the guitars it's it's obviously this
07:15kurt cobain's mustang yeah um tiger which is an amazing guitar in itself for sure um but there's so many
07:24you know he jim mercy collected the best because he wanted to bring these things together he was
07:31very fortunate to have the means to do so yeah but he didn't just collect them to put them behind
07:36glass
07:37or on the wall he wanted them to be played he played them himself yeah um and it's really special
07:42that
07:43they can kind of be shown to everyone here again yeah absolutely so um the black strat i think it's
07:49time
07:49now to move on to another um quite well-known guitar so there probably aren't that many iconic
07:57guitars that you can tell what it is from the back before you look at the front but this is
08:02one of
08:02them um so this is the fool um eric clapton's sg famously used in cream and um i don't think
08:13you'll
08:13find a more um iconic example of 60s culture counterculture intersecting with rock and roll
08:20than this guitar so should we turn it around and then we can talk a little about yeah just exactly
08:25what this guitar is and what its features are i mean look at it it's had a life it's had
08:34a life
08:35and yet what's interesting is i always think when when there are artworks on something like a guitar
08:40in all of the photographs that you'll see over the years you'll think oh that looks like quite
08:44fine brushwork or whatever but when you get close to the real thing it sometimes doesn't look it looks
08:48a bit more stagey but this is actually quite a beautiful little painting isn't it it's really
08:52beautiful and actually there's a whole different scene which i hadn't appreciated on the pickguard
08:56which was i think conceived like as a separate whole little story in its own um but it's beautiful i
09:03mean it is psychedelic it is psychedelia it's the embodiment of psychedelia really isn't it it's sort of
09:09um it's mad it's beautiful it's colorful and it like if you we've found so many photographs of
09:15eric clapton holding it and he is also wearing the most fantastic late 60s clothes you know it is a
09:23moment in time but it's also so important because it's the guitar that he you know this is where the
09:28woman tone comes from yeah this is where that whole you know inimitable eric clapton magic was created
09:36absolutely and the original artists were simon posthuma and marika koga yes yeah i'm gonna pronounce
09:43them wrong so i'm gonna let you do it apologies to anyone who knows better but um they sort of
09:49became um known as the fool was a kind of art collective yeah um subsequently rather than at
09:55the time and um so how did this guitar come into eric's uh ownership and use well it's pretty
10:02mysterious um and we don't i think to be honest we don't know he acquired it i think sort of
10:09in late
10:101966 so after he'd finished recording i think after the release of fresh cream actually yeah but then i think
10:16it got taken on tour when they were touring fresh cream um there's some like legends that he got it
10:22from george harrison but we don't know if that's true obviously george is known to have had the other
10:25sg which is also in the dimersi collection um so we don't quite know where he acquired it from but
10:32it was then in use you know after the release of fresh cream and it was then used to record
10:38much of
10:38disraeli gears and you know crossroads strange brew sunshine viola and it is the guitar that yeah he
10:47then kind of perfected the woman tone on there's a really famous interview video interview where he
10:52talks all about it's amazing um but it is the iconography of of that period of that of that sort
11:00of 67 to 68 period with him and then we know he had it until i think sometime in 68
11:07yeah and then it
11:10was passed to jackie lomax who was um an apple artist yeah there's a great photograph of um jackie in
11:17the
11:17studio with george harrison eric's in the background with this guitar so clearly they were known you know
11:22they were working with each other and i think probably what happened is that jackie was lent it borrowed it
11:28and had it for a few years i think by that point you know it suffered a bit with the
11:32paint because
11:33by all accounts the original oil-based enamel paint hadn't been sealed yeah and you know eric i mean
11:39even when eric had it i think the paint on the back of the neck was so worn and so
11:43yeah battered that
11:44that that had already um worn off quite a lot but it was also painted partially on the fingerboard which
11:50you know if you imagine a painted fingerboard it's kind of a bizarre thing to play um not all the
11:55way up
11:55i think at one point somebody thought it'd been paid all the way i think it was probably
11:58up to the midpoint but anyway that didn't last long so it was played hard toward extensively
12:04and also used in the studio i mean it's just an amazing thing yeah it is totally and um it
12:10then uh
12:11was owned by todd runyon of course he's an amazing musician and he was a slightly more um you know
12:15careful
12:16steward of the guitar i mean he he restored it he brought it back to its kind of glory he
12:21yeah i think did an
12:23amazing job um restoring the paint and he actually sealed it which was great so didn't get any more
12:28losses and damages he i think when he um acquired it from jackie lomax i think the head was sort
12:34of
12:34hanging on by a thread so i think he first repaired it and then replaced it and actually
12:38the original headstock does exist it's in a private collection um and and actually he kind of
12:45yeah he brought it back and i think he played it a lot yeah he owned it for almost 30
12:49years yes i think the
12:51early 70s till he sold it in 2000 yeah um at a sort of an online sale yes and i
12:57remember interviewing
12:58todd about this very guitar actually yeah he's a lovely lovely guy um it's not um it's not obviously
13:04it's not a factory original because because um all of the obvious things but there's a few other
13:09things like the bridges this sort of harmonica style thing which is fitted later and these are quite
13:13intriguing as well i was just trying to work out if that was paint or something which i don't know
13:17else but uh i think i had a wooden i think jackie lomax put a wooden bridge at one point
13:21yeah that's
13:21right yeah which is which is crackers isn't it and it's had a it's had a bigsby or some some
13:25kind
13:26of terminal system at some point as well should we just turn it around and have a look at the
13:29back
13:30as well because this is the sort of less often seen side of course and this is again i mean
13:35who would
13:36put a brass nut on a 64 sg because that's what it is so it's not a it's not a
13:40les paul model sg shape
13:42it's actually a sort of a full-blooded sg from 64 um let's flip it over and have a little
13:49look and
13:51what is interesting you can see the little the join of the break there which is still pretty obvious
13:57what's actually strikes me is how detailed all of this is because they could have just done the
14:02front of the guitar and call it good couldn't they but they've actually the the artists actually did
14:06really a complete job on this yeah yeah it's been really really well done actually and um
14:11there is a little bit of belt buckling curiously quite high up here which is interesting rather
14:16than any further down i don't know if any of that was sort of in the restoration was sort of
14:20touched
14:21up or anything but um a black light will tell us a lot i think yeah i mean this is
14:26the thing isn't
14:27it because i mean as iconic as these instruments are you still have that that sort of forensic
14:31job of due diligence to do on everything even if it's history is supposed to be completely well
14:36known yeah yeah does that feel like a quite a responsibility or i mean it's it's actually we
14:40love it we're sort of like detectives and we have to you know everyone knows every guitar
14:46that's going to be modified by the player no matter who's owned it right and you can you can only
14:51get
14:51so far into the kind of nitty-gritty of what's been changed and modified um it's part of the charm
14:56i
14:57don't think anyone's looking for an original yeah the full the original full doesn't exist i think it
15:01stopped existing after about three shows i imagine um but we have to go into as much forensic detail
15:08as we can about you know what's actually happened to the guitar but also the chain of provenance and
15:12what's great about this is that you know we can go all the way through except for that very early
15:18moment when finding out where he where where eric acquired it from but we know it was sold in 2000
15:23and then the buyer from that sale was the one who sold it and you know very recently which is
15:28where
15:28jim mercy bought it so it's got a like a full line of provenance it's really it's got a great
15:34history
15:34and you know i think you can see why jim mercy wanted to buy this thing it is iconic yeah
15:41absolutely
15:42in a little detail here it's got um grovers up here um which you don't often see so much on
15:48sgs
15:48than you do on les pools and i often i kind of wonder if that's because they cause the neck
15:52dive that sgs
15:53can be prone to to be a bit more pronounced because they're kind of heavier than the clusons um but
15:59i
15:59mean it's just it's just a privilege to see this up close and um i'm sure even despite your your
16:05long
16:05experience with the guitars of this kind of iconic status it's still there's a still kind of dreamlike
16:12feeling of standing next to this it's pinch me this is yeah you know there's not there's a lot of
16:16amazing things in this collection this is one of those things where you're like wow
16:24i think one of the things about wandering around the show uh you know which we've been lucky enough
16:28to come and do today is to the word icon is overused isn't it in popular culture but so it's
16:34really
16:34strange to wander around a a show that is these these guitars genuinely are iconic and this one
16:39i think definitely qualifies for that so tell us a little bit about this guitar well this is
16:45it is iconic it is you know the second most valuable guitar in the world at auction by all
16:52accounts at the moment it is kurt cobain's 1966 mustang that he uses or used in the music video
17:00for smiles like teen spirit it was used to record much of nevermind and also used on in utero it
17:07was
17:07by all accounts like one of his prized possessions he didn't smash it to smithereens although he did get a
17:12bit cross with it sometimes but it is um it's unusual because he really couldn't find many left-handed
17:21guitars that were actually vintage and so this was something that he really treasured
17:25um it was bought by jim mercy at auction for record four point nearly seven million dollars um just quite
17:34recently in 2022 i think it was um and yeah it's it's for somebody like me who grew up in
17:41the 90s this is
17:41the sort of generational anthem that every single garage band of course covered including the one
17:47at my school and so we all this is this is my generation's black strap really if you think about
17:52it absolutely um and very special thing to have i think jim also loved it because even though you
17:58know he couldn't play a left-handed guitar he recognized its importance in the kind of canon
18:02yeah of american music of these anthems this is an anthemic kind of really seminal moment and that's
18:11why he wanted to acquire this and it's interesting because we're into the mtv era by the point let's
18:15go and so instead of it being iconic from still shots or cinema releases of of bands on tour like
18:22led
18:22zeppelin or pink floyd this is this is from a music video smells like teen spirit and that's where it
18:27gains its sort of cultural weight from it yeah exactly and and actually it's also a guitar that
18:32kurt cobain played a lot on stage and i think normally in the middle of sets or yeah but you
18:38know there's lots of photos and footage of him playing this um and so many people would have seen
18:44it live as well which is again not something that they might have seen you know not many people who
18:50are around now would have maybe seen pink floyd live at the time in in their heyday um in the
18:5570s so
18:56it's it's special for a different kind of audience yeah and it's interesting that you you say um
19:02quite rightly that you know it's hard to find left-handed um fenders from this era but it's
19:07ironic that he only went and found one with the matching headstock and the custom color the competition
19:12stripe yeah um and and it's very striking i mean the the pickups this this pickup obviously is a
19:19single course sized humbucker so that that aggression of nirvana's music is reflected in that change there
19:24but um i think what the other thing that's useful to say is that uh the whole resurgence in interest
19:31in offset guitars by fender you know okay you go back to television and marky moon and people like
19:37tom valaine with jazz masters but that was really made stratospheric by nirvana's use of the offset
19:43guitars i think that's probably where they became so central to fender's output even today actually yeah
19:48yeah i mean it's it it definitely i'm sure would have boosted the sales of fenders fenders um mustangs
19:56and i think this was put in by kurt i think right i'm not sure about this one if it's
20:01the original
20:02single coil but i think that was something that his his tech put in wasn't it yeah yeah so wow
20:08so
20:08this is a this is a wonderful way to sort of almost um draw full circle the sort of story
20:12of the jim
20:13erstay collection so thank you so much for talking to us about these absolutely it's been a pleasure
20:17and um we look forward to kind of having the full exhibition in march in new york um we'll have
20:25you
20:25know hundreds of guitars not only these iconic celebrity associated instruments but also the
20:30vintage guitars that jim erstay collected you know there's a lot of lots of martins both vintage and
20:36custom shop there's there's all sorts so we really hope that everyone can come and see it all in new
20:42new york if people can't come down to the shows as lovely as they are how do how can people
20:46kind of
20:46see the breadth of what's on offer well we will be publishing full details of everything in all the
20:52auctions because there are going to be four auctions for the collection um we'll be publishing that in
20:57the next few weeks probably sort of second half of february there will be an evening sale um auction
21:03hall of fame on the 12th of march icons of popular culture on the 13th march there will be an
21:09icons
21:09of music sale on the 14th which is really focused on the vintage guitars and then an online sale
21:14running alongside and they will all be published sort of second half of february online on our
21:19website and as i said the exhibitions if you can come down are free and open to all you don't
21:23have
21:23to book you don't have to do anything like that you can just come to christie's and have a look
21:27at
21:27everything um but we'll also be doing a tour where you can kind of virtual tour online where you can
21:32walk through the rooms that you know in early march when it's on view great so plenty of ways to
21:36experience these guitars yeah exactly fantastic thank you