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Experience the classic tones of Gibson at an Epiphone price point. The team at The Tone Lounge explores the stunning new Epiphone Pre-War SJ-200 and 1960 Hummingbird, discussing their all-solid-wood construction, thermally-aged tops, and historical significance.
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00:28I
00:29I'm Jamie with Guitarist magazine and I'm Richard hi so today we've got two new offerings from
00:35Epiphone inspired by Gibson custom so anyone who's been following Epiphone's fortunes recently
00:40will know that they have been offering things that haven't been seen on Epiphone's for a goodly long
00:45time if ever namely all the trappings and vintage correct details that you would find on classic
00:53Gibsons but on an Epiphone badge guitar and at Epiphone prices albeit somewhat bit more than
00:59people have been used to in the past so the two guitars we've got here belong to that they're
01:03the latest of the crop of guitars that have come out I have here a pre-war SJ200 more of
01:11which in a
01:11minute and I have the 1960 Hummingbird so I'll start with the SJ200 the pre-war bit is quite
01:19important here because unlike almost every any other SJ200 you've seen in the past this one has
01:27rosewood back and sides which is what the model had in the pre-war era before it changed to the
01:31maple that most people associate with the model today so this is a maple bodied sorry this is a
01:37rosewood bodied SJ200 that is styled after the pre-war example of this instrument and that goes to the
01:45logo the Grover Imperial tuners and other the other styling details at the open moustache bridge and so
01:52forth it's all solid woods so this comes in at something just shy of 1400 pounds again it's
01:59more than you would have paid for an Epiphone acoustic a few years ago but just try and find
02:06an SJ200 from Gibson for south of you know three grand or more really and if you do please write
02:14in
02:14and let us know so um so this is the this is the whole deal with this model you've got
02:19the got the
02:20Gibson headstock it says Epiphone albeit in a nice old old vibe logo and you've got the pre-war
02:26trappings there so and I think you mentioned maple but it does have a maple neck it does have a
02:30maple
02:30neck it is a maple neck um and it's the same spec that Jimmy Page borrowed one didn't he and
02:36used it
02:37on the first Zeppelin album babe I'm going to leave you I think it was I think it was a
02:40later year but
02:41it's basically you know it's right it was SJ200 on that so it's it's a voice that's been on you
02:47know
02:49so many recordings over the years and one thing we've I've always said about SJ200s and I don't
02:54know if you agree is that um when they're good they're very very good and when they're they're
02:58bad they're um they're they're a bit I won't say they're horrid but they're a bit meh you know
03:02there's a there's potential for it to go wrong because who doesn't love feeling that lovely bass thump
03:07and everything but you could get a guitar that's pretty much unusable if there's too much of that
03:11yeah they can be a bit like a blunt pencil a bit woolly um the best examples though have a
03:16nice
03:16breathy quality and although the body looks like it's going to be a real cannon I sometimes think
03:20they're a slightly subtler instrument than people I heard Neville talking about them as the whispering
03:25giant yeah once and I thought that was a nice description yeah that's great I mean we're just
03:29referring to our colleague Neville Martin here is regular viewers of the channel will know will know
03:33him and he's got years of experience as a guitar reviewer and as editor of guitarists in the past and
03:39he's played you know some really nice SJ200s over the years so so he ought to know but um this
03:46is
03:46this one so um let's talk a little bit about the hummingbird okay so I have solid mahogany back and
03:52sides one piece thermally treated mahogany neck is that might be another word for torrified I don't
03:58know but I think it basically is thermally aged or you know but it's the same same process basically
04:04and what they're trying to achieve with torrification or thermal aging as it's been called by Epiphone here
04:10is um to emulate how woods are when they are aged which is to say they become a lot more
04:17stable
04:18because yeah absolutely and that makes a lot of sense as well because that's the last thing you
04:21want isn't it really and with the volume of production and everything there we haven't got
04:25hundreds of years of forest stood there untouched have we I mean and we have also the thermally
04:31treated spruce top and I have to say um that well we'll get to some sounds in a while I
04:39suppose people
04:39have already heard them a bit but it sounds a lot more expensive than it is this is 1099 british
04:46pounds
04:46in a kind of good quality gig bag um rosewood board rosewood bridge and you can see we've got the
04:56split parallelogram inlays I'm not aware whether they're plastic or not but I know that when I just
05:03look at the guitar I don't think that it's obviously plastic it doesn't shout plastic to me um and I
05:08think
05:08we've got a thin poly finish solid woods you know I mean that's incredible really I don't think that's
05:14the key thing here I mean and these are made in China so they're not they're not um US built
05:20as
05:20the originals would have been but when you start to look at um the details and we've got a bone
05:26nut
05:27yeah the bone nut and saddle um I mean all right I look at this one and I feel like
05:33I'd like to mask
05:34it off and maybe gently sand it some of the corners and things but these are very minor details I
05:40mean
05:40yeah you could take that probably would should recommend that you take it to a luthier to to have
05:45that done but I would definitely just round that off a little bit but it's quite nicely cut I mean
05:51they've come out of the factory with a certain spec I think because the action heights are pretty much
05:55identical and it's about three mil on the base and a little bit lower closer to two on the treble
06:00side
06:01and personally I mean it's perfectly playable but I might like it a tad lower in which case given that
06:09there's an under saddle pickup now that's the LR bags isn't it yeah it's the bronze element VTC which
06:13is we've seen before on on Epiphone Acoustics and and I think um some Gibson ones as well um so
06:19obviously Gibson are very fond of this um pickup system and that's it's a reliable performer fits in
06:24there with the volume and the tone control VTC I'm guessing um but uh so I'd probably pop that
06:31saddle out and lay it on a file mark off with a pencil exactly how much I wanted to take
06:36off and
06:36just sit there like that with a movie on until it was the right height because it's imperative that
06:41the bottom stays level that's right but um and that's the end of workshop for amateurs today but I
06:47mean I'll probably do a couple of things like that but seriously I mean what let's hear an E minor
06:52let's yeah let's let's just do a little bit of playing Richard you go first with it
07:07you hear that low-end rumble that you do get it don't you yeah
07:22um let's go to a D
07:33I mean there's there's nothing to sniff out here at all tonally and really you know the
07:37even more so on the electric side argue you know acoustic if an acoustic doesn't sound great with
07:44that fundamental tone there's nothing that's going to fix it really you can't put new pickups in as
07:48you would with a strat or whatever you might have no and arguably even then I think there are players
07:54that would say yeah look it's not almost there then don't bother this one you know so that fundamental
08:00tone uh okay so you you're you're getting an sj200 here for thousands less than a gibson custom one
08:08would be um but you are getting the all of the cosmetics albeit in a slightly more modern finish
08:15you're getting a a vintage and quite an unusual vintage spec which is kind of cool with the rosewood
08:20um it's got a really nice sort of it has got that low-end expansiveness but it's got a sweet
08:27sound as well
08:28and being solid woods I mean I guess that that will only improve um and I just about the finishes
08:34I mean I think it looks great it's not that thick poly finish I mean there is a lot said
08:39isn't there
08:39and I know you said something when we were doing looking at some other guitars earlier about um poly
08:44finishes and I think that it's got to the stage where they look terrific and unless you want
08:52to to see it checking and you know desperately yellowing really quickly or whatever then I
08:58think that these finishes look great yeah they look really smart aren't they and I think the thing
09:03with poly is is that the important thing is that it's not put on so heavily that it kind of
09:06is like a
09:07duvet or a wet blanket over the sound you know yeah and then it muffles it doesn't seem to be
09:12the
09:12case here there's plenty of detail here and actually when we're playing together you can hear
09:15the interaction of the two voices so they're quite distinct you know um I particularly like the
09:21fact this isn't the the thing that is to be feared of sj200 it doesn't sound like a blunt pencil
09:25if
09:26you know what I mean it's not yes it's not all thumpy and yeah no no detail to it I
09:30feel like this has got
09:35plenty of definition and sort of you know
09:44that's a really sweet sounding guitar isn't it yeah I mean I like the mids that the top is
09:48is right you know the top end the treble and the bass has got that little bit of thud
09:52but it's not like you instantly spend well you know have to take off loads of low end that happens
09:58with a lot of guitars or you spend ages trying to get the position right with the mic and all
10:03that is
10:03recording acoustic guitars can be I think quite difficult or I've always found it difficult to
10:08get it to my satisfaction I mean I think where where you as a consumer you would have an interesting
10:13question here is remember we played the hummingbird and j45 special which were gibson ones which had
10:19the sort of satin finishes there was a there was a they dialed back some of the cosmetic stuff yeah
10:23vintage faded those were really nice guitars as well they weren't that much more expensive than these
10:28right so I think um you'd have a bit of a a bit of a sort of chin scratcher really
10:33if you were in
10:33the market for that because you could have these for a little bit less if memory serves we didn't
10:37play an sj200 from that from that range because they didn't have one um but they did have a hummingbird
10:42and um yeah I remember that you know from memory that that was a great sounding guitar
10:48it would be interesting another time to have the two of those together or maybe we'll do that
10:52um do you think you should give us a shout if you want to see the the gibson
10:56um hummingbird special versus the um uh the gibson inspired epiphany inspired by gibson custom
11:021961 but what you get with these is you get all of the bells and whistles cosmetically albeit you know
11:10with some some modern corners cut um like the the style of finish and that sort of thing um you
11:16get
11:17a specific year or you know in the case of this a specific um age-related specification yeah yeah you
11:25don't
11:25get the gibson name on the headstock but you do get the gibson headstock shape yeah I know I know
11:29I know maybe it shouldn't matter but I don't know this but it does kind of work for me and
11:35I like
11:36the epiphone logo I think it looks great I mean I should point out because people very correctly and
11:40kindly commented on a previous video epiphone is actually an older company than gibson gibson bought
11:44the company they did and but what's what's an interesting feature of that is let it be said that
11:50when gibson bought the company and started developing guitars on it epiphone was seen as
11:53like was meant to be positioned in the market as a cut above the standard gibson so you know your
11:59rivieras and things had and sheritons had highly ornate yeah highly ornate they they put the best
12:05craftspeople they had on the epiphone line at the time so epiphone was originally under gibson ownership
12:11yes it had passed before that epiphone was originally seen as a a way to sell another brand that gibson
12:17produced in their own factory you know in an area that was already well supplied with gibson
12:23dealers you know so you could have epiphone you sell epiphones up the street from a gibson shop
12:28or a gibson stocking shop and and not have a conflict of a commercial kind of row on your hands
12:34so um that's the backdrop epiphone was only became what's perceived as a sort of budget brand as it
12:39when it because they became japanese produced guitars and they started being original designs that
12:44were aimed at the sort of more economy end of the market what we're seeing with these is perhaps a
12:49return not fully to that above gibson status because that's not quite what's happening yeah
12:54because i mean they're still owned by gibson aren't they and um i don't know i just think that
13:00it does get to the stage where it unless you really really have to have that particular logo on the
13:07headstock and i'd be sorely tempted solid woods i mean all right maybe you know if you're able to do
13:13these things yourself then you can just smooth the nut off and everything i mean it's cut absolutely fine
13:18i just feel like it could do with a bit of reshaping purely cosmetic um and maybe lower the saddle
13:24a
13:24bit oil the fretboard a bit i mean it's interesting i mean that's a that's a well-priced guitar i
13:30know
13:30some people will to the ends of the earth say i'm not paying i'm not paying a grand for an
13:34epiphone
13:34acoustic i just think these are different guitars to what epiphone was making in the past and and the
13:39proof of the pudding is in the eating and and i think if you're open-minded enough to say look
13:45the
13:45brands moved on and take these guitars are you know on their own merits you know absolutely on in
13:52their own right um it's a diff it's a much easier decision to go yeah this is these are great
13:57guitars
13:58and they're worthy of the price this one i think has the particular attraction of the fact you cannot
14:04get hold of an sj200 for an affordable price i mean maybe i shouldn't say affordable but for a price
14:11it's not affordable for a lot of people a lot of people yeah yeah they're they are one of these
14:15dream guitars for most people at four and five grand and that sort of thing it's a they can be
14:20very expensive to um own the gibson versions especially if they are vintage correct ones from
14:25the custom shop or what have you this one uh just under 1400 pounds again some people will always
14:31balk at the fact that they're it's an epiphone at that price i don't think they might need to get
14:37over
14:37that to be honest and say well that's solid woods proper spec okay poly finish but beautifully applied
14:43it's got a pickup in it it's a really good looking guitar yes it does feel you know the the
14:49poly finish
14:49is super glossy it hasn't got that sort of slightly sort of um more tactile feel that that nitro does
14:55but sitting behind this guitar you don't feel like you're playing a sort of cheap knockoff of a legend
15:00doesn't squeak or anything like that but some of the old poly finishes did yeah so so yeah um i
15:07think
15:07this is one of these ones do let us know what you think i mean people inevitably do say in
15:12the comments
15:12a lot on the epiphone videos we've done that they they have a problem with the pricing um
15:19ultimately this is quite a subjective thing really if you if you if the name on the headstock is
15:24is centrally important to you you know let's not knock that we're all we're all kind of
15:28in love with the heritage to a certain degree and and if that's important to you then okay these
15:33guitars might not hit the spot but as instruments in them in and of themselves they sound really nice
15:38and um in terms of what you're getting from the you know the the bank vault of gibson's heritage
15:45you know albeit transferred to a epiphone badge guitar it's quite a lot really well yeah and these are
15:51correct you know the the heel the the angles the geometry of everything it's all absolutely correct
15:57and i think that it does get harder to justify i can remember doing a video a while back about
16:02um
16:03the um les paul and 335 and everything and i remember saying that well i bought a gibson but
16:09you know why wouldn't you buy the epiphone the gibson i bought was from the mid 70s they don't make
16:14them like that now even the reissues aren't like that they're not really true to the original so but
16:19with these they are absolutely correct they're the correct woods correct spec so i find it hard to
16:25say why i wouldn't want this instead i think one thing i would say is when you look at um
16:30uh gibson usa les pauls let's say they're 50s les paul that they make okay yeah it's quite a lot
16:36more expensive than the gibson inspired by epiphone custom ones but with the epiphone versions as good
16:42as they are and they are really good because you get lots of american hardware on them and the right
16:46pickups and stuff the the the aesthetic of them like they often have the veneer tops and stuff like
16:51that oh yeah yeah and you do notice it and it's it's like they look good but they they don't
16:55quite
16:55look like when you've seen a few of them i suppose you get to see that yeah you do get
16:59to the point
17:00where you but i feel less like that with these guitars yeah i do that's it because i was thinking
17:05right you know i don't i didn't want to contradict what i've said previously really so that's why i
17:10brought that up but i do actually feel yeah looking at these that uh and hearing them and playing
17:15them that really this is high-end stuff yeah it's it's it's certainly uh it's like the you know if
17:23it's like the high end of uh i don't want to say low end but there's the high end of
17:28of attainably
17:29priced guitars yeah um and whether you prefer to be at the top of that bracket or at the bottom
17:36of
17:36the next bracket up which would be you know your premium and and sort of big brand uh names like
17:41gibson itself um is it is a choice that only the individual can answer but what i would say is
17:46if
17:47you are in the market for one of one of these style of guitars then do check check these out
17:52because they might just persuade you with the sounds and other features yeah yeah i agree i mean we were
17:58i was talking to you about the lawsuit era those kind of ibanez acoustic copies and everything from
18:04the mid 70s and um you sort of look at them now and uh i picked one up recently for
18:10good money and
18:11um it's shockingly good quality and i feel that these are a bit of a throwback to that kind of
18:17thing yeah um so they're made in china not made in japan but you've got to remember people used to
18:21think japanese made was a bad thing now it's touted as oh it's a japanese one it's one of the
18:26yeah that's an interesting feature isn't it the sort of leading edge of of what's considered a um a
18:32center for high quality guitar making does shift about a bit and as you say japan may not have
18:37started out with that reputation but certainly when it became so if you look at um you know custom esp
18:43custom guitars or gretches or anything like that you know nobody would say or japanese fenders you
18:49know they're they're really impeccably built in many cases so um it's it moves around you know um and
18:57and certainly you know these are great guitars regardless of origin i know that the heritage
19:03comes from the states but yeah yeah and i should add that though i've said these preferences for
19:08doing that these are perfectly usable as they are yeah um you don't you don't need to do that i
19:13think
19:13that's one of those things where if you find that you've got a bit of spare change in your pocket
19:17after spending less on one of these then you could really just help hit the extra mile
19:21um with getting someone to look at those and and i really feel that yeah you'd go a very long
19:26way to
19:27find a better guitar there we go folks so uh you pays your money and you takes your choice and
19:32let us
19:32know what you think of these guitars and if you've enjoyed this video hit the like subscribe button and
19:36we will see you next time
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