00:00Ashley Bastock of Cleveland.com and the Orange and Brown Talk podcast.
00:04Ashley, welcome back.
00:06Thanks, guys. Who would have thought we would have another, a third straight win to talk about
00:11after the way this team began in Week 1?
00:13To quote Nukla Lush from Bull Durham, winning is so much better than losing, you know?
00:19I do want to know, are you invested in Guardians-White Sox Game 3?
00:25Um, it's hard for me to be invested because I feel like I just see the writing on the wall.
00:30I was at Game 2 the other night, and, I mean, the hitting was still an issue, obviously, right?
00:35So, I don't know. It's hard for me to be invested.
00:38And by the way, I'm still working away here at Berea,
00:41so I don't know when I'm going to get home in time to watch that.
00:43I think your boyfriend, Kenny, is really going to enjoy this game, and I hope you support him.
00:48And it's Kenny, right?
00:50Sure. Let's go with Kenny today.
00:52Okay. All right.
00:53Just for different K names the entire time.
00:56Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you run out of him eventually.
00:58All right, Ashley, is this Jets game on Sunday, is this more of a trap game,
01:05or do you think it's more of a free roll for the Browns at 3-1?
01:09I feel like it's a trap game, right?
01:11I mean, I feel like it's funny to say that, though,
01:14knowing that the Browns have opened this week as underdogs.
01:17You know, when I first looked at the line, it was 1-1⁄2 or 2-1⁄2 point underdogs,
01:21depending on where you looked.
01:24So my thought was kind of like, that's odd, right?
01:28I think we're maybe putting a lot of stock, or I should say the Vegas oddsmakers are putting a lot
01:32of stock
01:32into the fact that the Jets' three losses have come against decent teams.
01:38But I think looking at a 3-1 team versus a 1-3 team, it just sort of has trap
01:43game written all over it to me
01:45like it did last year, and obviously we know what happened, and the Browns lost that game
01:50thanks to giving up two special teams touchdowns.
01:53So for me, I've been considering it a trap game.
01:55I do think the Browns are going to have to be careful of that
01:58and, you know, not make dumb mistakes like they did in 2025 against a worse Jets team, I would say.
02:05Are the Browns good, or are they just 3-1?
02:09Are they good, or are they just 3-1?
02:11You know, I think they're better than a lot of people expected.
02:15So I'm going to go with, I'm leaning more towards, hey, this is a pretty good football team right now.
02:21Now just, will they keep being a good football team?
02:24I think that is the biggest question to me.
02:26But, you know, I think everyone came into this year feeling really strongly about a lot of the pieces on
02:33this roster,
02:34particularly the defense, and they rebounded after Week 1.
02:38Everyone, it seemed like, had a lot of really high hopes for this pass-catching core.
02:42And they've delivered.
02:43The rookies, in particular Denzel Boston, have largely delivered.
02:47And I think for so much it was like, okay, this team is decent quarterback play away from being a
02:54good team.
02:55And against a lot of odds, Deshaun Watson has done some decent things over these past three weeks
03:01to help get them to 3-1.
03:04So I'm a big believer in the record says what you are.
03:08And they are playing like a good football team that has too many penalties right now.
03:13But I'll take it.
03:15Ashley, who's the backup quarterback when Dylan Gabriel comes back?
03:20I mean, my guess right now would still be Shador Sanders.
03:23And, like, the Browns have some time to make decisions on all of this, right?
03:27I mean, obviously this year there's precedence for keeping four active quarterbacks.
03:31But, I mean, Shador's been the backup quarterback.
03:35So, like, to me it's like why would he lose that job now,
03:39especially when Dylan has been IR on IR, I mean, because of the back.
03:44So, my guess to that would still be Shador Sanders.
03:49If his name wasn't Deshaun Watson and it was just erase the last name and erase the name in general,
03:54how would we be perceiving this quarterback?
03:57Yeah, I think it would still kind of just be a situation of, hey,
04:02it's a guy who's sort of managing these game-winning drives, right?
04:06Managing, being a game manager.
04:08And that's, you know, I've talked so much about that.
04:11I feel like that's what we've needed from Deshaun Watson.
04:13But you are getting some splash, obviously, when he's using his feet.
04:18So, I think we'd kind of be talking about it without the same maybe level of vitriol
04:25that a lot of fans have had for Deshaun Watson and his play, especially after week one.
04:30But, I mean, I honestly feel like there wouldn't be that much of a difference.
04:36Like, I don't know that it would be a performance through four games that would be getting overhyped.
04:42But I think it's just kind of like what it is, right?
04:46And doing enough in these sort of crucial fourth-quarter situations to lead these game-winning drives.
04:54Ashley, are we sleeping a bit on the absence of Mason Graham?
04:58We might be.
05:00I mean, I think the issue for me is how healthy is Mike Hall Jr. also going to be?
05:06Like, that's a big question.
05:07Because when Mason Graham went down against the Steelers, Mike Hall came in, Aiden Huntington came in,
05:14and both those guys played some really meaningful snaps.
05:18So, it's going to, I think, be concerning if Mason Graham is out for any extended period of time.
05:24But I will say, like, the good news today, after we saw him after that Steelers game, he was on
05:29crutches and a brace.
05:31Today, briefly saw him walk through the locker room, no crutches, no brace.
05:35So, that's a good sign.
05:36Like, this could have been much worse.
05:37I would be more worried if you were talking about him needing a procedure done and missing weeks and weeks
05:44and weeks.
05:44And, like, that's not the situation.
05:47So, it could be worse, but it is concerning any time you lose a guy who is generating the most
05:52pressure on your defense.
05:54So, they're going to have to make up for it in other ways.
05:57But I feel like the defense has a good mentality about it.
06:01So, that's what you would hope for right now.
06:02How do you explain the pass rush being as dominant as it is without Myles Garrett?
06:07I think it's something that you've kind of seen across the league.
06:11We've talked about this before with some of these other good defenses in recent years, like the Eagles or the
06:17Seahawks last year, like not having a double-digit sacker.
06:20I think it's just that production being spread out a little bit.
06:24Now, obviously, Mason Graham was carrying the workload.
06:26But you look at the Steelers game on Thursday, and there were five sacks against Aaron Rodgers, and they came
06:33from five different Browns players, and none of them were Mason Graham.
06:36So, that just kind of goes to show there are guys on this line who can get to the quarterback
06:41in a variety of ways.
06:43And I think that just, like, makes for a holistically healthy pass rush, and it just feels like maybe that's
06:50the way things are trending with some of these other top-flight defenses in recent years.
06:55And, like, you become harder to stop when that's sort of how your production goes, even though, you know, you
07:00talk about with Myles Garrett, 23 sacks walked out the door.
07:03But, I mean, it's helpful if you have that, yes, but then you have, you know, multiple guys stepping up
07:09and getting to the quarterback in place of those 23 sacks.
07:13It has to be done by committee, because there's no replacing Myles Garrett by one person anyway.
07:18And, like, I'm still really hopeful for this pass rush, because we haven't even seen Jared Burst really get going
07:24yet.
07:24And I think there's a lot of meat there left on the bone for him in that regard.
07:30Ashley, I know we talked about, you know, is this team good, or are they just 3-1?
07:35It's interesting.
07:36I know they're having similar conversations out in Las Vegas about the 3-1 Raiders.
07:41And the great rebuttal now is how well the Raiders hung in there with the Chiefs.
07:46It was a loss, but it might be one of the best losses you can have to try and validate
07:51your fast start here.
07:53Do the Browns need their version of that kind of win or even an acceptable loss where it kind of
08:00confirms what we're seeing is, in fact, real?
08:02Yeah, I think so.
08:04And I think that's, like, sort of natural attrition throughout any NFL season, right?
08:09So throwing out Week 1, because Week 1s are just so weird, like, maybe their best chance was against the
08:16Jaguars.
08:16And unfortunately, because of where it fell in their schedule, like, they're not going to get that now.
08:21But, you know, too, it's like you play the schedule game with them.
08:25And we've talked for months about, oh, this schedule is just easier this year than it was last year or
08:31even the year before, right?
08:32And they don't have any West Coast trips and things like that.
08:35So, yeah, I mean, I think we kind of have to wait and see how the season plays out.
08:40Like, I obviously don't think on this schedule, outside of the Ravens matchups, like, those are really going to be
08:46key.
08:46Like, there's not necessarily an equivalent for the Chiefs on there.
08:50But I think the Ravens, looking at what's left, is probably their closest thing.
08:54I had somebody tell me they thought that Deshaun sounded incredibly confident today in his presser.
09:00Was that your same read, too?
09:02Were you a little bit more confident, Deshaun, today?
09:04I think, like, it's not just today, but it's really ever since over the last, like, two, two and a
09:10half weeks, I would say, since they started winning.
09:13Like, after that Panthers game onward, I feel like he just overall seems more confident and positive.
09:20And, you know, I said this today, like, we knew that it bothered him in the preseason right when his
09:25reception wasn't very good.
09:27But it really feels like he is, you know, riding with this more positive perception of him from Cleveland fans,
09:35at least, right now.
09:36So, I mean, I think that's a sort of fair assessment with the caveat of I think that's something that's
09:42kind of been going on since the Panthers game.
09:44Ashley, what's left for Deshaun Watson to prove after the first four games of the season?
09:49I mean, I really think it's about just running this offense super cleanly.
09:54Now, some of the penalties and stuff are not his fault.
09:56Some of them are on the O-line.
09:58But you have to get that taken care of.
10:00And, I mean, I think he's going to have to prove he can stay healthy because I do think that
10:04is a big question for a lot of people.
10:07And he's coming off of these, you know, two major surgeries with the two Achilles and then the weird shoulder
10:13thing still.
10:14So, I still think you have to stay healthy if you're him.
10:16And you have to keep winning.
10:18Like, you have to win consistently because I think that's, like, the one thing he hasn't been able to do
10:24here.
10:24And, you know, that 2023 season, he obviously orchestrates the win against Baltimore.
10:29And for the longest time, it was like, man, is this going to be the only good half of football
10:33that we watch this guy play,
10:35that they spent all this money in these draft picks on.
10:37But this is really the first chance he has in an offense really designed by, you know, a different set
10:44of eyes than Todd Munkin to show, like, hey, I can still win consistently.
10:49And there's still something left in the tank for his career.
10:52So, to me, those are the biggest questions.
10:55And, I mean, they're questions that I think many, many people would not have been asking even, like, two, two
11:02and a half weeks ago just because he wasn't being thought of in those terms anymore.
11:06But now I think these are things more people are curious about.
11:09Astrid, I gave Nick a chance to go ahead and gloat about his preseason prediction on Monday.
11:14He opted not to.
11:15He said he needs to see the Jets game first.
11:17And then, oh, then he's coming for everybody.
11:18But he's got to see the Jets game first.
11:20You shared the same eight-win prediction that Nick had before the season got underway.
11:25Would you like a moment to gloat?
11:27Or do you also need more time before you start gloating?
11:30You know, I don't really like victory laps and all of that.
11:34So, I'm not going to gloat quite yet.
11:36Like, Nick, I probably just want more time.
11:39And, hey, I know 3-1 is a great start, right?
11:42But it is only the beginning.
11:43It's, like, not unheard of for there to be a collapse due to injuries or whatever else.
11:48So, it's a great start.
11:50I'm not going to gloat.
11:51I don't really like victory laps.
11:53So, I'll probably never really gloat about it, to be honest.
11:55Okay, Ashley.
11:56I understand I want to gloat today, right?
12:00The false humility.
12:02Let's drop it.
12:03All right?
12:03You know, ball.
12:04You know, ball.
12:06You were right.
12:07I was right.
12:08Like, at some point, there are a lot of people acting like you and I were homers for seeing
12:13the forest from the trees here.
12:15I think the high road is overrated.
12:17Yeah, you've got to tell those people to suck it, Ashley.
12:18I think the difference here is that maybe Nick just got more pushback than I did.
12:26And that's why you feel a need to gloat.
12:29Because I definitely get like that when I'm right and a bunch of other people were wrong.
12:34But, I don't know.
12:35I think I just didn't get a ton of pushback on my 6-8 win prediction the way you did,
12:40Nick.
12:40Ashley, are you saying 8 wins wasn't a big enough putting it out there?
12:44Bad?
12:44Is that what you're saying?
12:45I don't know.
12:46I mean, maybe it's because I more so gave a range.
12:48And I was still, like, realistic with it in that way.
12:52That people were pushing back on me.
12:53I mean, maybe you had to say, like, 10 wins if you really wanted to, you know, be like a...
12:58Don't let Mr. 5 wins over here.
13:016 wins.
13:02What are we talking about?
13:02Mr. 5 wins over him.
13:03Never said 5.
13:04Him in the morning show.
13:05Oh, it's 4 wins.
13:07Oh, it's 5 wins.
13:083 weeks.
13:09Ashley, he was so wrong.
13:103 weeks before the season, Nick and I were both at 7 wins.
13:14He moved up one.
13:14I dropped one.
13:15It's how it happens.
13:16I have scruples.
13:17It's how it happened.
13:18You got another...
13:18Also, Ashley, that Taylor Swift Cleveland song is so mid.
13:22It's not good.
13:22I'm so sorry.
13:23Babylon has become my favorite, though.
13:25Yeah, she's just babbling on that Taylor Swift.
13:28That's all I'm saying.
13:29Like, Taylor might be washed.
13:32Yeah.
13:33Guys, I can't referee you when you're arguing like this.
13:36I love the Cleveland song, so...
13:38Why?
13:38I mean, I texted you guys this when you were complaining the week of on that Friday
13:43and said, guys, I love this song because you were talking about possibly calling me at,
13:48like, 6 p.m. on a Friday and getting my opinion, and you were so confident.
13:51I would agree with you.
13:52I do not agree with you on that.
13:54I actually think, Nick Wilson, you deserve to get pushback on that take more than your
14:008-win take.
14:01I gotta say, it's because you're in the love bubble, Ashley.
14:04All right?
14:04You're in the love bubble.
14:06You've brought the meaning to your personal relationship.
14:09I'm glad for you, by the way.
14:11Right?
14:11We love love on this show, but I'm saying...
14:13That is nice.
14:14You're blurred.
14:16Your judgment on this is blurred by your love of Taylor Swift and your very happy relationship
14:22you've got going here.
14:23And I just need you to know this as your friend.
14:26When your guy's first dance song is Lover, I'll just remind you I already did that.
14:29That's a little...
14:30Yeah, that's a little too much for me at this point.
14:33I would want something a bit more deep-cut than a Lover-era single, if I had to say.
14:39My first dance song was basic?
14:43Is that what you said?
14:44Yes, that's exactly what you're saying.
14:46Don't take the high road.
14:47Hammer him, Ashley.
14:48What an insult.
14:49He's a basic bro.
14:50Hammer him.
14:51People, Ashley.
14:51I just expect better from you.
14:54Well, I'm sorry.
14:55I didn't use the word basic.
14:56Let the record show you did.
14:58You implied it.
14:58By the way, now we go out to the Wiseheart, right?
15:00We make it right.
15:01Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
15:03We've got a special guest here to talk to Ashley Bastock.
15:06Ashley, are you ready?
15:08No.
15:09You guys are not going to get me again with this.
15:13One day, Kenny's going to watch it.
15:14One day, I'm going to make the joke I want to make on Mike, but it's not going to be
15:19today.
15:19But there's a really good joke I have about all this.
15:22One day, I'll just leave you guys speechless.
15:24Only one way to say it.
15:25I just know that Dale is listening right now.
15:28And he's thinking about it.
15:29He's thinking about calling 216-474-0092.
15:32Classic carry, if you ask me.
15:34Very Dale move, if you ask me.
15:35Ashley, great stuff.
15:37Thanks, guys.
15:38Ashley Bastock there.
