Abolitionists Rising has an issue with Catholics
Catholic response to Protestants
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Catholic response to Protestants
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LearningTranscript
00:00I'm telling you, that is straight-up blasphemy, and I'm calling you to repent.
00:03You need to repent of that blasphemy.
00:05I'm making a scriptural argument.
00:07Do you disagree with Jehovah?
00:08No, you're not. That's a demonic argument.
00:10When people try to talk to you, it's fine.
00:13Whenever you talk to them, it's just part of it.
00:15It's better than putting a rule against it.
00:17It's going to happen. Just try to everyone keep their emotions.
00:21Well, there are guys going to be putting the T-shirt on.
00:23Your organization has said that Catholics aren't Christians, can't be abolitionists.
00:27Are you pro-life or are you abolitionists?
00:28I'm an abolitionist.
00:30But not how abolitionists rising would define abolitionists.
00:36So I believe we're saved by grace through faith that works through love.
00:39Through Christ alone?
00:41Yeah, of course.
00:43That does sound Catholic.
00:45In this video posted earlier this week, Catholic Defender has a discussion with the people from Abolitionists Rising,
00:52who are known for being anti-Catholic.
00:55What I mean by this is that they don't believe that Catholics are Christian.
00:58And they often strawman the Catholic faith.
01:01That said, Abolitionists Rising's main focus is on doing pro-life work.
01:05But they would define themselves as abolitionists, meaning they demand immediate abolition of abortion.
01:12And they don't really identify as pro-life.
01:14But abolitionism is a subcategory of the pro-life movement.
01:18Anyway, with this mutual goal in mind, Catholic Defender went to join them on this day.
01:23What's that?
01:25I mean, everything that you've said on the Discord and stuff like that before,
01:28just it seems like it's more of a head-bunning contest to see how much you can get Catholics into
01:35this movement.
01:36Sure.
01:37I don't know why we have to be divided.
01:39Because you guys don't have the true gospel?
01:41Yeah, there's true.
01:41Okay, so what is the true gospel?
01:43Again, I'm not getting into it with you.
01:45I've done this before with you.
01:46Now, this man kept on making offhand comments.
01:49And when Catholic Defender tried to engage with him, he was very dismissive.
01:53I found this behavior to be very cowardly.
01:56I would love to have a conversation with you.
01:58Sure.
01:59After this is over.
02:01Okay.
02:02Because we're focused on gospel-centered ministry.
02:05Yes.
02:06I live in Kansas City.
02:08And so we don't want to be distracted.
02:09I'm not saying you're a distraction, but I'm just saying.
02:12Because if we're talking to somebody, how old are you?
02:15Am I somebody that could be talked to?
02:17Am I somebody that could be talked to?
02:19You're worthy of hearing the gospel, that's for sure.
02:21But have you heard the gospel?
02:22Yeah.
02:23Okay.
02:23So what is the gospel?
02:24Well, that we're saved by grace through faith.
02:26That works through love.
02:27Yes.
02:27Now, when he says that we are saved by grace through faith, working through love,
02:31it harmonizes the position of St. Paul and the position of St. James.
02:35And Catholics can use the phrase, faith alone, but not to the exclusion of love.
02:40Because we do believe that love is necessary for salvation.
02:43Now, when Protestants say, faith alone or sola fide, it's in reference to the doctrine
02:49that was formalized during the 16th century, which goes to show that people using similar
02:53words can mean very different things.
02:56Of course.
02:57I believe that.
02:59And that you must repent of your wickedness.
03:00Of course, yeah.
03:02And it's not an ongoing, I did this bad, so now I've got to go pay my penance.
03:10Well, St. Paul teaches us we need to endure and persevere.
03:13You do endure and persevere, but you don't have to ask continually to be saved.
03:18So if you sin, then you don't need to repent of your sin?
03:22I didn't say that.
03:24Now, not every Protestant believes in once saved, always saved.
03:27Even many Protestants would agree with us here that it's a logically inconsistent position
03:32and it's an innovation not taught within Judaism or in the early church.
03:38Now, many more informed once saved, always saved proponents will try to say St. Augustine
03:44believed this.
03:45But both St. Augustine and Fulgentius believe that we can forfeit God's sanctifying grace
03:50or the grace of justification.
03:53Now, if you reject once saved, always saved, you believe that salvation can be lost.
03:57This would mean that salvation or justification is ongoing.
04:02And those that reject this ongoing justification ultimately reduce repentance to lip service
04:07or vain repetition.
04:10So then, what's the difference?
04:11The Christian life is one of ongoing daily repentance through our sanctification.
04:16We have a personal responsibility in our sanctification, but not salvifically.
04:21When we sin, we don't lose our salvation.
04:24And then we have to earn it back by doing all the good things.
04:26So you don't believe you can forfeit your salvation?
04:30I do not.
04:31Once you are saved by grace through faith alone, in Christ alone, you cannot lose your salvation.
04:37You can fall away and you can continue to create a divide through God the Father.
04:42Now, this is a clear contradiction.
04:44You can't have someone that can't lose their salvation, but can still fall away.
04:49These people will condemn other Christians for not holding to this contradiction.
04:54What does that mean?
04:55Let me finish.
04:56Christ Almighty said, there is one mediator between the Father and you.
05:01That is me, Christ the Son.
05:03Yeah, Jesus Christ.
05:04Only, not Mary.
05:06Now, notice how she moved on to something else.
05:07Because she can't justify this contradiction that she condemns Catholics for.
05:13And Christ is the only mediator between God the Father and mankind, by virtue of him being
05:18truly man and truly God.
05:20This doesn't mean the king doesn't have other agents that he sends to intercede.
05:25We also intercede whenever we pray for someone else.
05:29Whenever a prophet or angel is sent, they are interceding.
05:32The word interceding and mediating are synonymous, but there is a theological distinction.
05:38Not Mary.
05:39Mary can't hear you.
05:39What is that?
05:40Hold on.
05:40What does that verse mean?
05:41Mary can't.
05:421 Timothy 2.5.
05:42Hold on.
05:43Mary can't hear you.
05:45We don't pray to her.
05:46Can I respond to any of it?
05:47We don't pray to her as an intercessor.
05:50Can I respond to any of this?
05:51Which part do you want to talk about?
05:53Because you said a lot there.
05:54You talked about 1 Timothy 2.5.
05:56Let's talk about losing our salvation.
05:58Sure.
05:58Once saved, always saved.
05:59Okay.
05:59Sure.
06:00But I also, I don't just think, hold on.
06:03When you say once saved, always saved, I don't think Christians can just hang their
06:07hat on that with the condition that they can just do whatever they want to do.
06:12Okay.
06:12Oh, I'm just saved so I can go act like an even.
06:15No, no, no.
06:15But it would still mean that there aren't eternal consequences for people choosing to
06:19sin.
06:20In an extreme example, a woman could abort a million babies intentionally, and she could
06:25still be saved.
06:26As long as she just has confidence and trust in Jesus, her sinful deeds wouldn't separate
06:32her from God.
06:33Now, someone could say that this implies that she doesn't have a real saving faith.
06:37Well, none of them know if they do have this real saving faith, but they all still claim
06:42to be saved.
06:43We have to pursue Christ.
06:46We have to repent of the sin that we commit daily because we are sinners.
06:52However, we have to continue to pursue that.
06:55So we're not saying it's a works-based faith when you think that your sin erases your name,
07:02that the Father is not perfect enough to keep his promise in his word and save you one
07:08time.
07:09Now, she keeps trying to interrupt Catholic Defendia, and we should keep in mind, proselytization
07:14is not the same as evangelizing, because it makes objects out of people, and all people
07:20are made in the image of God.
07:22We don't just talk at them, we talk to them.
07:25One of the reasons I'm so active in responding to people on this channel is because I do
07:30recognize this.
07:31My time isn't more valuable than yours, so I do respond when I can, and within reason.
07:36And then he will discipline you.
07:39Do you want to let me speak at all, or do you want to just lecture at me?
07:42Do you want to have a conversation?
07:43I see how this is going to go.
07:45What do you mean?
07:45I see how this is going to go.
07:47You're recording me, and I see how this is going to go.
07:49I just want to have a conversation.
07:50Do you want to have a conversation?
07:51We can have a conversation.
07:52You want to keep recording me?
07:57Now, earlier in this video, he did mention why he's recording them.
08:01On August 1st, I traveled to Boston to attend an Abolitionist Rising event and participate
08:05in their outreach to abolish abortion.
08:08When I arrived Saturday morning, before I even had the opportunity to speak with Russell
08:12Hunter, I was approached by two members of Abolitionist Rising and attacked for being
08:16Catholic.
08:17I was told that I follow a false gospel, and that Abolitionist Rising could not stand with
08:21me because of my Catholic faith.
08:23I want to be clear that the first couple of minutes of this interaction were not recorded.
08:27I didn't pull out my camera until the conversation was already underway.
08:30But once I began recording, I captured the rest of the interaction, and I'm going to let
08:34you watch it for yourself.
08:35Afterward, I had the opportunity to speak directly with Russell Hunter.
08:38Russell was very kind to me and ultimately allowed me to stand alongside Abolitionist Rising
08:43for the outreach.
08:44For Russell's conversation, I have edited out a few portions that contain personal information
08:48or unrelated side conversations.
08:51But I have not edited out anything relevant to our discussion.
08:54Hold on one second.
08:55I have a question.
08:55I have a question.
08:56This is going to be edited to make me look like this horrible person.
08:58No, no, not a person.
08:59No, of course not.
09:00So, I mean, Abolitionist Rising pulls out cameras and records conversations all the time.
09:04That's right.
09:04What's the difference?
09:05That's right.
09:05But I also think that maybe you don't have the best intention to pose what we're truthfully
09:11Well, you haven't let me speak at all.
09:12So, how do you know what my intention is?
09:14What's the gospel?
09:15Now, it's clear to me that this lady does understand that she's looking bad when responding, but
09:20she really needs to sit down and ask herself why she made these unjustifiably strong condemnations
09:25of Catholics.
09:26In the gospel according to St. Matthew, chapter 7, verse 1 to 2, we read,
09:31Judge not that you be judged.
09:33For with the judgment you pronounce, you will be judged.
09:36And the measure you give will be the measure you get.
09:39Now, she obviously believes that there is no eternal judgment for her.
09:43And unfortunately, this is what a lot of women believe when aborting their children.
09:48What's the gospel?
09:49We already went over this.
09:51You tell me what the gospel.
09:52You said, save by, grow through faith.
09:53Sure.
09:54So, Jesus Christ came down from heaven to reconcile sinners to God.
09:58He died.
09:59He's not the Father.
10:00Yes, Jesus is also God.
10:02Jesus is not the Father.
10:03He's not the Father.
10:04He's not the Father.
10:05And he's not the Holy Spirit.
10:06That's right.
10:06There are three distinct persons in one God.
10:08In one trinitarian God.
10:09Do you know what the Catholic Church teaches?
10:11Go ahead and tell me what the gospel is.
10:13Now, I think this lady was getting a bit emotional after realizing that she looked bad on camera.
10:18But just to be clear, the reason why most Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity
10:23is because the Catholic Church defined this doctrine dogmatically at the Council of Nicaea
10:28in the early 4th century.
10:30And the Magistral Reformers held onto this teaching.
10:33While many radical Protestant Reformers didn't.
10:36Now, I bring this up because we often see radical Protestants condemning Catholics
10:40while also believing that modalists are Christians.
10:44Now, as a former charismatic Protestant, I've seen this over and over.
10:48And many modalists will say that the Trinity was invented by Catholics.
10:52He came down.
10:53He was sent by God the Father.
10:55Go ahead.
10:56He died on a cross and rose again three days later.
10:59Why was he sent here?
11:01Because we're fallen.
11:02We're fallen by nature.
11:03Right.
11:04And what was his goal for coming here?
11:07To reconcile sinners to the Father.
11:10To be a propitiation for sin.
11:11The perfect sacrifice.
11:13Yeah, our Pasco Lamb.
11:14The sinless sacrifice.
11:15Yes, our Pasco Lamb.
11:16Not Mary.
11:17Mary was not sinless.
11:18But go ahead.
11:20Well, that's what you believe.
11:21No, no, no.
11:22That's what.
11:23Yeah.
11:23Mary was a human being.
11:25So you want to talk about once saved, always saved.
11:27But you're bringing in all of these other things here.
11:29Now, they would go on to discuss the sinlessness of Mother Mary.
11:32And the Catholic defender would bring up relevant verses in defense of that position.
11:36But the lady would end up becoming very dismissive.
11:39You can watch the full video on his channel.
11:42I'll link it in the description.
11:43And he was also in a live stream reacting to this video on Hammer of Heretics.
11:48Now, in conclusion, I'd just like to say that I appreciate all the pro-life work done by Abolitionist Rising.
11:54But this constant attack on our faith just demonstrates that we can't work with them.
11:59It's better for us to join pro-life movements organized by other Catholics.
12:04And that organization can try to collaborate with other groups that aren't hostile to our faith.
12:10Thank you all for watching.
12:11If you found this video useful, please do click that like button or consider subscribing to our channel.
12:16God bless you all.