Lindsay Clancy Holdout Juror BREAKS SILENCE... (HE FIGHTS BACK!)

Doc Rich

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Transcript

00:00Sue O'Connell, who has been on the story from the very beginning.

00:03Sue, your team at NBC Boston has discovered documents related to the jurors' past.

00:08Talk to us about what you're seeing.

00:13Well, Tom, you know, in addition to the allegations that you talked about,

00:17there was also an active non-payment of rent civil case that was going on during the trial

00:24and a restraining order around an alleged assault.

00:27So in Massachusetts, you get a standard questionnaire to serve on the jury.

00:32They ask you questions like, do you have any of these issues, and you answer them.

00:36So we don't know if this juror did or did not answer the questions,

00:40but it does raise a lot of questions about his serving on the jury,

00:43if the lawyers, prosecution, and defense saw them, and what happens next, if anything, after this.

00:49So this case continues on, even though it was allegedly done on Friday.

00:53Sue, I'm just wondering, does either side or the court system,

00:58do they run criminal background checks on potential jurors?

01:03No, not to the best of my knowledge, Tom.

01:06I mean, generally, this is an oath.

01:08It's something that citizens fill out and give.

01:10And then if you get to the part of the trial where you're getting a voir dire and being interviewed,

01:15you answer the questions.

01:16But no, there's no criminal background check.

01:18Sometimes high-powered lawyers will investigate the jurors on their own.

01:23This obviously did or did not happen here.

01:25Well, you were in the court for the entire trial.

01:29Were you surprised to learn that this juror was to hold out?

01:34Absolutely.

01:35I mean, in my experience of watching this juror over this entire time, he was attentive.

01:39He took notes.

01:41He was well-dressed.

01:42He appeared alert and friendly with all of his fellow jurors.

01:48In fact, he laughed at many things.

01:50If you watched the trial, Kevin Reddington had a certain way of delivering a line or taking a shot at

01:55someone,

01:56which was entertaining, obviously, regardless of what side you are.

01:59So I actually had him in the camp of not guilty.

02:02So I was very surprised to find out that he was the holdout juror because of his demeanor during his

02:09jury service,

02:10which he seemed happy to be doing.

02:12Yeah, you mentioned the defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, there.

02:16He is pursuing multiple avenues to get this case tossed.

02:19Is that likely?

02:21Yep.

02:23Well, remember the Karen Reed trial, the first one, went to the Supreme Court over issues that happened after the

02:30verdicts were released.

02:32So there's a chance here.

02:34I'm not a lawyer, but there's a lot here to be argued about if this juror did or didn't fill

02:40out the form correctly,

02:41should he have been on the trial?

02:43And if not, you had 11 not guilty by reason of insanity, our version of that.

02:48So I think it definitely gives the defense some opportunity to move forward in their argument.

02:56Yeah, this whole trial, man, it's just absolutely wild.

03:00All right.

03:01I've never seen that all of you have said the same thing.

03:05You know, people doxing the juror and us finding out information about said jurors.

03:14It's just wild, man.

03:16But the juror has kind of spoken out.

03:21And I want to talk about it a little bit because we're getting more and more information about this guy.

03:26Obviously, we were getting a lot of information previously, you know, about his background, his name, his history, crimes he

03:33allegedly committed and all of this other stuff.

03:35But now he is kind of speaking out a little bit more.

03:39And I do think eventually he'll come out and, you know, really give a whole full, probably hour long interview.

03:51But I think there's some legal things that he may be worried about because, of course, they're going to come

03:58after this guy because.

04:02One, I'm just going to come out and say it because the left always says it themselves, right?

04:07In reality, I think it's them.

04:09They're racist.

04:11They're racist.

04:12That's just the way that I feel about it.

04:13You guys can let me know how you feel about it in the comments, because the moment the moment as

04:17a black person, when you disagree with these white liberals, they'll call you everything under the sun in words with

04:23the hard are they'll say you're stupid.

04:26There's all types of stuff, you know, as if you're just supposed to capitulate to whatever it is that they

04:31say do.

04:32When they say jump, you're supposed to you're supposed to ask, well, how high, master?

04:36You know, in the moments you don't, they bring out the whip on you, you know, but he's got some

04:42legal issues.

04:43That may arise.

04:45And I think he's kind of worried about that because not only is he black, but he's also a Republican,

04:50allegedly a Republican.

04:51So they're really going to come after him about that one.

04:56Because, of course, if you're a Republican right now, that means you voted for Trump.

05:00And, of course, you know how they hate Donald Trump, you know, goodness gracious, like Pavlov's dog for them.

05:07And the moment you mentioned Donald Trump, they like just like instant anger reaction from them.

05:13Goodness gracious.

05:14Anyway, let's hop into this in here a little bit more about what this juror had to say.

05:22All right.

05:23This has been the foundation of everything I have said about this juror.

05:29But I've always said when the holdout juror states their own case, then we will assess.

05:36Now we can.

05:37All right.

05:38You just heard there the juror who was the forewoman and Lindsay Clancy.

05:41And she says the lone juror in an 11 to 1 hung jury said he had reasonable doubts, but refused

05:54to acquit.

05:55Couldn't let her get away with it.

05:57OK, now, if that is what he said, then that is not doing your job.

06:03But is that what he said?

06:05Let us discuss because somebody was able to get an interview with him.

06:13OK, and the person who did is the creator of Fugitive TV, Ray Marcel.

06:19And Ray joins me now.

06:21Ray, good for you getting this phone or interview.

06:25And thank you for talking to me about it.

06:27I want to say thank you so much for having me on, Chris.

06:30I appreciate that.

06:32All right.

06:33And look, we'll put up the guy, put out pictures of himself and his name.

06:36I don't really want to target this guy, to be honest.

06:40I really don't.

06:41I just want to know one thing.

06:43OK, did he say to you, how did he explain what kind of doubt he had about what the verdict

06:53should be and on what basis?

06:55Or let me even make it easier.

06:56And then we'll have a broader discussion.

06:58Did he say to you, I had reasonable doubts that this, you know, was her illness that did this, but

07:06I couldn't acquit her?

07:09Well, first, before I say that, I do want everybody to know, no matter if you agree with him or

07:16not, and me and him had this conversation, if you agree with him or not, guilty or not guilty, his

07:23name shouldn't have been put out there like that.

07:25And no juror should be, you know, put to the forefront like that because it's their civic duty to do

07:32that and they should be protected.

07:34So he never asked for, you know, any of this whatsoever.

07:37When I had my conversation with him, he said that based off all the evidence that he's seen, everything that

07:45he heard, he felt that she was guilty and felt that at the time she was not, or I should

07:54say not guilty for a reason of insanity.

07:56He felt that she was sane when she did it.

07:59And that's exactly what he told me.

08:01Okay, what about the reasonable doubt part?

08:04Did he mention to you, because that's what they say, did he mention what he thinks of what they said

08:11that he said to them?

08:13Now, what he told me was he did say that I don't want to put other jurors on, you know,

08:21on blast.

08:21There's enough of that going on right now.

08:24He did say things got heated in the jury room.

08:26And once he speaks, I'll let him, you know, confirm more of this.

08:30But he said things got heated in the jury room.

08:34And, you know, jurors were not agreeing, some agreeing, some not agreeing.

08:40But he said from day one that he always felt that she was guilty and he never displayed or said

08:52anything about reasonable doubt.

08:53That was one of the reasons why he put the water bottle on the table with the string attached to

08:58it and to tell them, hey, this is what she probably did to her children.

09:06Okay, so as far as you know, if he says, I always thought she was guilty, but you didn't ask

09:13him specifically.

09:13They said that you told them you had reasonable doubts, but wouldn't acquit.

09:18Did you hit him with that specific, not to play gotcha about your interview, but just to kind of drill

09:23down on this?

09:25What I asked him, I asked him, the question I asked him was, and what he told me was, from

09:33day one, they voted every single day.

09:35There was a vote.

09:37And from day one, there was eight people that walked into there.

09:41And the eight people who walked in there thought she was not guilty from the start.

09:45That's what they were set on.

09:48Two of them thought that she was guilty, and he's one of those two.

09:52And then the other two were undecided.

09:55And he said, you know, as the days went on, as they're deliberating, because every day they're voting,

10:00he felt that the other eight were pretty much, you know, stating their case and trying to get everybody else,

10:08you know, pretty much to go on to their side.

10:11And this is exactly what he told me.

10:13And then he said at the last moment, it was just him and one other juror that were saying guilty.

10:21Guilty, we see the evidence, guilty no matter what.

10:26And then he said at the last moment, that other juror decided to go not guilty, and he just stood

10:33his ground.

10:34It was him and a female juror, he had said, right, who were the two holdouts.

10:39And did he tell you why he thought, what was the evidence that made him as convicted, excuse the pun,

10:50as he was,

10:50that this was guilty, that it was not a function of the disease?

10:55No problem.

10:57We didn't talk about all the evidence, I will tell you that.

10:59But what we did talk about, he said that he felt that she was saying by the preparation she did,

11:06how, you know, she waited for her husband to leave, sent him out.

11:11But the preparation showed that she was saying and knew what she was doing, pretty much knew right from wrong

11:17before she did what she did.

11:19And that it wasn't a quick death with the kids, you know, that she took her time and did to

11:28the kid each one that she did, strangled each one pretty much, you know, in separate rooms.

11:32So he felt, because of that, he felt that she knew that what she was doing was right from wrong.

11:38I get it.

11:39Look, in truth, I think he, all of the optics aside, them saying that he said he had reasonable doubt

11:46is what created a lot of this controversy around him.

11:49Because as we both know, and people should look up Ray's story and his, his site and his backstory of

11:59how well he understands the system.

12:02But if you have reasonable doubt, you have to acquit.

12:06That's why I was saying this guy, if that's true, he didn't do his job.

12:10But in the conversation with you, that's not what he said.

12:13He said, I just always thought she was guilty.

12:14And here's why.

12:15If he didn't tell you that he had reasonable doubt, then that's the standard.

12:19That's all we needed to hear.

12:20It's just, we heard something else first.

12:23Ray Marcel, thank you very much for talking to me.

12:25I wish you good luck going forward.

12:28Subscribe below and download our...

12:31Shout out to that lone juror, man, because he did the right thing.

12:35He did the right thing.

12:36He stood on business and I, listen, from everything that I've seen, I would have said the exact same thing

12:44and would have felt the exact same way had I been a juror.

12:49Like, I don't know how y'all can say that she had no clue what she was doing and that

12:56she was in some psychosis this entire time.

12:59Because, like you said, one, like, you knew well enough to send your husband away.

13:05That's for one.

13:07But then also, and this is one thing that a lot of people, or I haven't seen anyone except for

13:11myself speak about this, and I'm not saying that I'm the first person that's ever thought of this, but I

13:16just haven't seen anybody else talk about it.

13:18She's a medical professional.

13:20So, if you wanted to prematurely put yourself six feet in the dirt, she would know how to do it.

13:26So, why didn't she?

13:27She made it look good.

13:29Sure.

13:29Like, yeah, and slip the fist and jump out the window.

13:32Cool, cool, cool, cool.

13:34But typically, you know jumping out of a second story window isn't going to put you six feet in the

13:38dirt.

13:38It's not high enough.

13:40You know what I mean?

13:41Like, it's just not high enough.

13:42Yeah, it'll hurt a little bit.

13:44Clearly, you might paralyze yourself, but you're typically not going to pine box yourself jumping out of a second story

13:52window.

13:52It's just not high enough, right?

13:56And like I said, if there's anybody who would know how to do this to themselves, like really do it,

14:03it's her.

14:04She knows where every artery, every vein, you know how the body works, medications to take and how much of

14:11it to take to, you know.

14:14Do the deed and whatnot.

14:16So, I'm just not buying the whole, oh yeah, she did it and then try to pine box yourself.

14:21Like, no.

14:22I just don't buy it.

14:24And maybe I'm crazy, but y'all let me know how you feel about it in the comment section.

14:28But then also, you know, like you said, that would take some time to truly put those kids six feet

14:35in the dirt.

14:36You've got to be sitting there holding that for a while.

14:41Okay?

14:42Quite some time.

14:43And if I remember the story correctly, once she felt like they were done, like she tied the band around

14:52their neck so that they couldn't be resuscitated.

14:55Like, that takes some level of thinking.

14:57Most people, in a moment of rage, would just choke them.

15:01They pass out.

15:02They let go.

15:03They go on to the next person.

15:04Like, no.

15:05She knew to hold on for long enough till they stopped breathing, past when they stopped breathing, but then also

15:13tie it around their neck.

15:15And correct me if I'm wrong on these details in the comment section, please.

15:19But if I remember correctly, she tied the band around their neck after she felt like they were dead so

15:26that they could not be resuscitated.

15:30Because, obviously, once you pass out, the body just naturally starts to breathe again.

15:34So, if she just would have let go after they passed out, eventually their body would have started breathing again

15:39and they would have, you know, came back.

15:43So, if I'm correct in my memory, that takes some thinking.

15:51That takes some planning.

15:52Like, no, I can't just let them go because they're going to come back.

15:54So, let me tie this around their neck.

15:58You know what I mean?

15:59But, anyway.

16:00Y'all get into the comments.

16:01Let me know your thoughts and your opinions.

16:03Regardless of how or why it was done, in my opinion, whenever you harm kids, you deserve the death penalty.

16:11The fullest extent of the law.

16:13And I believe that fullest extent should be the death penalty.

16:16But, like I said, that's just me.

16:18Peace and love.

16:19I'm out.

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