00:00Hi, I'm Sean Hader.
00:01I'm Reith Maidley, and I play Judy Heumann,
00:03and you are watching The Hollywood Reporter.
00:13We're going all the way down.
00:14Stand up and let gravity do this.
00:16This is an adventure.
00:17Did you guys get any sleep last night?
00:19No.
00:20I think I got three hours.
00:21Yeah, what are you guys doing?
00:22Did I get here?
00:23I was like...
00:24I just hate my whole face.
00:26Hi, I'm Sayah Rankin with The Hollywood Reporter,
00:28and I am here with the gang from Being Human.
00:31First of all, we have to talk about last night.
00:33Big TIFF opener.
00:36World premiere.
00:37I mean, it was pretty awesome.
00:40I have to say, I think, like, there were so many moments.
00:43I truly haven't been able to watch the movie with an audience,
00:48and especially because it's funny,
00:50and you're sitting in the edit room, like, you know,
00:53my editor and I are laughing.
00:54Like, I think it's making me laugh.
00:56I don't know if it's going to make anyone else laugh.
00:59And then to have, like, a crowd that big,
01:00to 1,200 people in a theater,
01:02and hear those moments where everyone is sort of
01:05getting the joke together,
01:06it was just really fun to see the movie that way,
01:09and, like, have our cast together.
01:10We shot in Toronto and be back here.
01:13It was great.
01:14It was such a special night of celebration,
01:15just sheer celebration for seeing everyone again,
01:19being all together again, and just celebrating,
01:21and being able to talk about what we made.
01:25It's great.
01:25How long ago did you guys start working on this?
01:27I guess it probably started with you.
01:28But were you kind of looking, like, as soon as CODA comes out,
01:33are you like, what's my next thing?
01:35Or how great is that?
01:35I was working on this before CODA came out.
01:38So I actually met Judy.
01:41I had made CODA, but it hadn't come out in the world yet.
01:43And I saw Crip Camp, and there's this amazing,
01:47she's an amazing character in Crip Camp,
01:49where I'm like, who is this woman who's, like,
01:51yelling about lasagna at summer camp?
01:54Like, she's in a Senate hearing.
01:55Like, the most self-possessed person I've ever seen.
01:58And I was, you know, fascinated by her,
02:01and reached out to her.
02:02And so I'd been working with Judy already on her story.
02:06She passed away two years into us working together.
02:09But I had, like, five projects after CODA.
02:11I wrote a bunch of scripts.
02:13I was sort of trying to figure out what was my next move.
02:15And there were a lot of voices chiming in to go, like,
02:19this is what you should be doing.
02:20And I think to tap back into why I tell stories
02:23and be like, this story moves me.
02:25This was something I was drawn to and interested in
02:28before I went on this ride with CODA.
02:31And so it was kind of amazing that it was my next film.
02:34And it feels like it took what I started with CODA actually
02:37up to, like, a whole other level.
02:39How quickly did you start looking for your Judy?
02:42I mean, I knew we didn't have a movie if we didn't have Judy.
02:45Like, I was like, there is no movie.
02:47Like, if I can't find her, then I don't have it.
02:51And I actually found Ruth because I was building a deck of images
02:55with a deck designer to kind of try to sell Apple
02:58on how fun this movie was going to be.
03:00And I'm working with this deck designer and he was like,
03:04oh my God, do you know this woman, Ruth Madeley?
03:06And I was like, I don't.
03:07And he said, she's in this movie when Barbara met Alan.
03:10She feels like Judy.
03:11You have to see this woman.
03:13And so I watched the movie and I was like,
03:15Ruth has this essence that is very Judy-like, you know,
03:27but, like, also I put you through the ringer.
03:29Like, Ruth auditioned many times and came to New York
03:31and we worked together there.
03:33And it was really, like, a great, amazing process.
03:36I owe the guy who did the deck a really big, like, hamper or something.
03:40Richie Burrish.
03:41Yeah, we definitely love him.
03:44Thank you, Richie.
03:46Did you have...
03:48Were you automatically on board to do it in your mind
03:51when you, like, met Sean and heard about this movie?
03:54Or did you have, sort of, certain criteria
03:57or, like, things you wanted to know about
03:59what the movie was going to be, what the set was going to be like,
04:02anything like that before you said yes?
04:05There was no hesitation.
04:07It was like, yes, please.
04:08But, no, it was...
04:09I think knowing that Sean was doing it was a huge excitement for me
04:15just as an actor.
04:16One of my favorite things as an actor is the collaboration with the director.
04:20And, like, it was the best, the best partnership
04:23I could have ever dreamed of in that respect.
04:27But then also to know that Sean wanted to do this authentically
04:32with, you know, disabled characters being played by disabled actors.
04:36That was such...
04:37I've been, like, advocating for that for so long in my career now.
04:41And so to see that be put forward on the Hollywood, you know, level,
04:48that for me felt revolutionary and necessary and really needed.
04:54So, yeah, there was no hesitation whatsoever for me.
04:57But it was just...
04:58I was just so privileged and excited to be part of those
05:01really important conversations about how we get it right.
05:03But also there were so many cast members who had never been in a movie before
05:07or were non-actors or...
05:09And so to have Ruth as a partner who was really experienced,
05:13had been on a lot of sets and could kind of...
05:16I mean, there were so many levels of meta in this movie
05:19where, like, the making of the movie became, like, the protest
05:22where we were kind of, you know, going through the hardship
05:25that they went through in the building
05:27and trying to figure out the collaboration on set.
05:29I mean, making an accessible set is impossible.
05:32Like, there's not...
05:33It's not impossible. We did it.
05:35But, you know, it hasn't been done, you know, on that scale.
05:39And so trying to figure out, like,
05:41there was one accessible trailer in all of North America.
05:44So when we started to look for trailers, it was like,
05:47how do we find this?
05:48Okay, we have to build our trailers.
05:50We have to build our hair and makeup trailer from scratch.
05:52We have to build a ramp village and figuring out, you know...
05:56And it wasn't just wheelchair users.
05:58It was blind people, deaf people, little people, you know,
06:02every kind of disability on our set.
06:04And so to create, like, a set that's working across disability
06:08to take care of people's bodies while we're making a movie,
06:10I think it was a really wild journey.
06:13And to have Ruth as a partner in that, who had been on many sets
06:17and been, like, could also speak in a leadership way to the cast
06:22and go, guys, it's never like...
06:25You know, like, we're creating something new here.
06:27And it was just really...
06:28It was really...
06:29I think it tested us both, actually, as leaders,
06:32which is what Judy went through in the protest.
06:36And it was kind of wild to do it with each other.
06:39I don't think I've ever clung on to anybody as tight.
06:41I was like...
06:42It was amazing.
06:44And I've been on the sets where there's no ramp,
06:49there's no accessible bathroom.
06:50I've been on all of those.
06:51And at the start of my career, I wouldn't have dared or dreamt to say anything.
06:57I would have been like, don't worry, I just won't drink.
06:58Don't worry, I'll just crawl.
06:59Or whatever.
07:01And to be in that privileged position where I could now kind of share my experiences
07:06with other cast members who haven't done this before
07:09and be able to say, no, you can ask to go to the bathroom.
07:14You can ask for that.
07:16That's fine.
07:16And I saw a few of them, like, you know, a bit nervous to ask for certain things.
07:21And it just transported me back to myself at that first part of my career.
07:27And I'm like, no, no, no, you ask for what you need.
07:30And, yeah, we were just really, really happy that it was done in such a thoughtful and dedicated way.
07:39After CODA came out, I feel like a lot of conversations were...
07:42And Marley was, you know, really vocal about this,
07:45kind of the things that Hollywood needed to do to sort of catch up in a sense,
07:49both with, like, the way they were casting deaf actors
07:52and also in, like, accessibility of movies and all that kind of stuff.
07:55You know, I guess the jury is sort of still out in whether Hollywood at large,
07:59like, rose to the occasion that you guys set out.
08:01But I'm curious what, like, this movie,
08:05what sorts of things you want to see people talking about are happening
08:08in the same way that people did after CODA.
08:11I mean, people did and didn't.
08:14You know what I mean?
08:14Like, I think at CODA, like, everyone adopted the deaf clap and it was amazing.
08:18And by the time we won at the Oscars, the whole audience is, you know,
08:22cheering for us like this.
08:23But making real, lasting change where, you know, it's like,
08:27are the interpreters there just when we're there?
08:29And then when we're gone, they go away?
08:31Like, is that how we're working as an industry?
08:34And so I think for us, like, it's really hard to create a map of something new.
08:40And there are things that are inherent in movie making
08:43that are at cross-purposes with disabilities.
08:46Like, there are definitely things like movies, like, time is money,
08:48and you're losing the light and you've got to go
08:50and you're in that location for a limited amount of time.
08:53And a lot of times disability is asking for time and care and like,
08:58hold on, we're actually not going to move on right now
09:01because this person needs to take a break or get out of their chair or stretch.
09:04And, but what it revealed in such an amazing way to me was how inhumane movies are in general
09:12and how movie making in general, like, I destroy my own body on every set that I'm on.
09:18And I was like, wait, we have to learn how to do this in general.
09:22Like, this shouldn't just be for this project because taking care of your people on your crew,
09:29like, I'm just as worried about the guy who's been carrying a Steadicam for 12 hours
09:34as I am my disabled actors because, like, we're human bodies
09:38and we're trying to do a really hard thing in a limited amount of time.
09:41I think it's so, it's such a wonderful privilege to be able to be able to have these conversations at
09:49this level,
09:50like stuff that I know I've been seeing for 10 years in the industry
09:54and then have, be able to show multiple cast members on screen
10:01and talk about everybody's experience and how access is so important across the board.
10:06And also just things like figuring out things every step of the way, like doing a table read
10:12and being like, do we need a braille script for Charlie?
10:15Like, how much is a braille script to make?
10:17Like, mistakes that we made where we sent out, like, PDF sides for casting that, like, blind people's readers
10:24could not read the PDF that we sent.
10:26So it was just a lot of trying to figure that out.
10:29Like, how do you do ADR when someone is trying to put words into their own mouth
10:34but they can't see their performance?
10:35So like, how are we handling that?
10:37And I think the problem solving was actually amazing and really fun.
10:42I loved that bit.
10:42I think that's so many, the history of movie making and production is people are often so afraid to get
10:52things wrong
10:52that they just would rather not do anything.
10:55And the problem solving was like one of the biggest joys.
10:59It was like finding all these different ways of working and, you know, it's okay that it's not perfect.
11:05Let's see what we can do on the fly and, like, get it done.
11:10And we did.
11:11And it made it into the movie.
11:13Yeah.
11:13And that was, like, the beautiful part is that you sort of went, okay, like, in rehearsals, our non-disabled
11:20cast had to figure out how to transfer our wheelchair using cast.
11:24And, like, those transfers and, like, the relationships that formed all kind of made their way into the movie and
11:31there are, like, layers on screen that I think are really fun for me to watch because they make the
11:36film feel very alive.
11:37Yeah.
11:38So fun.
11:39Did casting Mark Ruffalo as the antagonist, was that, like, was he excited to play the bad guy or was
11:49it, I'm curious about kind of how, because normally he'd be on the other side.
11:53Yes.
11:53Well, Mark was very excited to play the bad guy, but also he was like, he's not the bad guy.
11:57Like, the first time we had coffee in New York and he was like, Joseph Califano is not the bad
12:03guy.
12:04And he was actually notoriously, like, a major civil rights activist, you know, not an activist, but he was a
12:12big supporter of a lot of, like, civil rights agenda.
12:15And he worked with LBJ.
12:16He did the Great Society program.
12:19He, you know, supported the Selma March.
12:21Like, he was this good guy.
12:23And in this case, he was like, it's too expensive.
12:26And so I think what Mark was interested in and what I was interested in is kind of speaking to
12:32the bureaucrat who's gotten sucked into the system, who's too fearful to do the thing they believe in.
12:39And I think that's talking to a lot of people right now who know what the right thing is and
12:45have a moral ground, but they're too afraid to act because they're going to lose their, you know, whatever money
12:52for their reelection.
12:54And so I think that was the fun was also for me.
12:59Like, I remember researching Joseph Califano and going to Judy and being like, he was in a really tough spot.
13:05I was like, you could make a movie about Joseph Califano who, like, 100 disabled people storm a federal building
13:11and demand you spend $3 billion in 60 days.
13:16And when I told Judy that, she was like, no, no, I don't like him.
13:20I don't care.
13:21I love that.
13:22He is a villain.
13:23Yeah.
13:24I remember our first day on set.
13:26We were in the CIL and Mark came to visit and it was the first time we met.
13:32And he was like, this is the room I want to be in.
13:33I don't want to be in the government office.
13:35And it was just so great.
13:38And the fact that Sian gave Mark and I that phone call, the Califano Judy phone call, that was so,
13:46so precious.
13:46That's the only thing in the movie that did not really happen.
13:49I know.
13:50I love the fact that when Sian told me, I said, did they ever meet?
13:55Did they ever talk?
13:56And Sian was like, no.
13:58Literally, the second he signed, Judy was like, great, next.
14:02Finally, right.
14:03Move on.
14:04But I really love the fact that we got a creative phone call.
14:08Because they were the same person.
14:10They were both from Brooklyn.
14:11They were both from the same neighborhood.
14:15I love that they talk at the end because it was like what I could imagine he would say to
14:21her about Washington being complicated.
14:23And Judy did go on to work in Washington and be in government and I think suddenly realized that that
14:30activist part of herself who was, you know, building sex tents in the hallway needed to like be in a
14:36different place when she was in Washington.
14:38And before we have to wrap, I did want to ask this.
14:41So I feel like the sex tent is going to get a lot of play.
14:43Of course.
14:44As it should.
14:45Yeah, definitely.
14:46And is that the sort of thing I imagine when you're like making this movie, you're like, this is going
14:49to be a thing people stick on and want to ask about or talk about.
14:51I didn't, but we were obsessed with the sex tent.
14:55So in rehearsal, I was like, what could I do with the cast to like get them bonded right away?
15:00We had two weeks of rehearsal or a week of rehearsal.
15:02And I was like, what could I do?
15:03And I was like, I'm just going to have them get together because everyone had just met.
15:08And I was like, I'm going to make them build a sex tent.
15:10And I'm not even going to explain what that is.
15:11It was the best.
15:12It was sort of like use your own creative vision for what you think a sex tent would be.
15:17Well, it was everyone working together and I had hid stuff around the soundstage.
15:21So it was like we were working in this rehearsal space and everyone had to like build American flag, got
15:27pulled out of the hallway.
15:28I remember Andrew painting with his feet, you know, the foot, you had the foot print.
15:32Andrew took off his shoe and ended up painting with his feet.
15:35Someone made like a blowjob stool.
15:37Yeah.
15:38Very, very, very creative.
15:39I was like, everyone had very specific ideas of like what should be happening.
15:43Yeah.
15:43And then that sex tent, the way we built it, that was the shape of it in the movie.
15:49In the movie.
15:49And I did.
15:50I took my art department in when we were done, my production designer, and I was like, this is what
15:55they made.
15:55It has to look exactly like that.
15:56It has to look exactly like this because this is what a bunch of, a motley crew of ragamuffins.
16:02Ragamuffins indeed.
16:03Build as a sex tent.
16:04That's incredible.
16:05It reminds me of in school when you'd have the science experiment with like the marshmallows and the toothpicks and
16:09like build the statue or whatever, like a real bonding.
16:12Actually the interest, like the support system of the sex tent, that was the real problem.
16:16It was.
16:17Like what is, we had some flags, we had like some lines coming off across the sides.
16:21Yeah.
16:21And a strong foundation.
16:22Yeah, and something broke.
16:23And then we're like, no, it's not strong enough.
16:24That's not gonna last.
16:25Now it's not gonna last two seconds.
16:28Well, thank you guys so much for chatting about this.
16:30I appreciate it.
16:31I'm glad we landed on sex tent.
16:33This is a beautiful place to end.
16:34This is a beautiful place to wrap.
16:35Yeah.
16:35I love it.
16:35I hope every interview ends somehow on sex tent.
16:38We'll make sure of it.
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