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00:15what's good everybody welcome back to another edition of new york got game dexter henry alongside
00:20my guy brian fonseca here we're here to talk about some contract stuff earlier this summer
00:27we talked about the car anthony towns extension what that should look like today we're going to
00:32talk about josh hart a lot of interesting things with the knicks i know fans are very interested
00:38because they want to know can you keep this team together brian and i've said multiple times just
00:44like going back to back it's not going to be easy not saying it can't be done it's not going
00:49to be
00:49easy and there's probably gonna have to be a little bit of sacrifice on somebody's part unfortunately
00:55in this situation it's the players not the owners which i'm not a fan of but this is generally what
01:00it's going to have to be in these situations so we're going to get right into things brian i'm
01:06coming right at you direct not at you but at you with a question it's not i'm coming at you
01:10not
01:11trying to do that uh because when you talk about this you got to talk about the cap
01:17you got to talk about the second apron and just to keep it a buck for fans you also are
01:25going to
01:25talk about emotional attachment which we get we talked about this with mitchell robinson we talked
01:29about this with other players you understand when a player wins a title for you and what they can mean
01:34to the city of the team it is not something that you can ignore but the question for me that
01:41i would
01:41like to start with right now if you're leon rose right now today at the time of us recording this
01:48in
01:48early september what contract are you offering josh hart right now what's the and remember not
01:57what you think josh hart should get because we'll get to that if you're leon rose yeah what's the
02:04contract you're offering that you don't want to be a little too disrespectful but you also want to
02:08try to make it team friendly what's the contract you're offering and you have to know that he's going
02:12to ask for more and he should so that's part of this and you have to keep in mind that
02:18he took four
02:18for 81 when you traded for him and then resign him to that extension correct he's at the end of
02:26that
02:26deal now four for 81 now this is a champion at the nba level yep who has increased his value
02:35i know he's
02:35getting quote unquote older but he's not old yet he's actually in his prime right now and we talk about
02:42the opportunity to cash out this is time to cash out so i'm not going to be disrespectful and offer
02:48him the three for 60 i think that would be disrespectful i know that's the number that's
02:52floating around there that's the same that he just took and it's like i need to give you some sort
03:00of
03:00bump because you've increased your value and i want to be fair i'm also not offering his max which
03:07he's eligible for eligible for four years 132 million dollars i'm not doing that has to be
03:15somewhere in between those numbers the question i would have is do you go straight to four for 100
03:20or do you start beneath that i think my starting point would be beneath that how far beneath that
03:28but but i i would i would have to be comfortable going into that number because if i'm josh hart
03:34that's probably the baseline of what i'm looking for i'm not looking for the max because realistically
03:38he's not going to get four for 132 but also if you compare it to and we'll we'll get into
03:43some of
03:43the other players that make about what josh hart can make and where you slot him in kind of like
03:48what we did with carl anthony town several weeks ago you start to see hey he might be worth more
03:53money
03:54or less money depending on how you view them than many of you think so wait what are you offering
03:58what's offered i'm probably starting at like four for just under 100 like 95 or something like that
04:0590 95 so 90 would put him at 22 and a half million a year that still feels low and
04:12for context four for
04:13100 25 million a year that feels still kind of low for what he provides you so but if you're
04:22trying
04:22to build a team right that's around where you kind of need need this to be because if he wants
04:28120
04:28that's where this gets a little dicey now because now you're talking about 30 million per on average
04:32and it's like how do you keep now now you're talking about how do you keep this together
04:39the other thing that i think you have to think about is other teams now i want to be very
04:47clear here
04:49josh hart still has a year this current year the 26 27 season that he's under contract for just over
04:5920 million dollars for the year and then there's a team option which is tricky for next year now here's
05:06the key do the next pick up the team option do the decline the team option if you pick up
05:11the team
05:11option you have him at 22 he's going to want a raise on that 22 so i was gonna say
05:16that decision will
05:17tell us a lot right about where they are in negotiating the other thing the decision will
05:22tell me a lot on to that which is which we'll get to later about the timing of all this
05:27the other thing
05:27brian this is going to tell me a lot about are you going to do three or four years because
05:32if you pick
05:32up that option i think then it's more likely you add a three-year extension on top of it as
05:38opposed
05:38to a four-year extension on top of it because you're giving him the years to add it basically becomes
05:44a four-year deal adding that first year of it in but it's what's that's where it's kimmy's what's
05:48the number gonna go i'm not sure the knicks gonna want to go past three years on an extension and
05:54the
05:54reason i say that is because the team option if that is picked up is his him at age 32
05:59and you would
06:00add three years on top of that right so 33 34 35 right with his playing style which you have
06:07talked
06:07about a lot and why i thought this conversation is interesting not to be very clear if you know
06:13brian josh hart is a brian kind of player yes this is not a a knock on josh hart at
06:19all too and i think
06:19a lot of knicks fans also love josh hart his playing style what he embodies of the team you know
06:26even
06:26john starks had told me a couple years ago he's his favorite nick on the team he also wears number
06:29three i think a lot of i think a lot of people think that i mean let's go back to
06:33the parade
06:33let's go back to the parade whose jersey was zoramadani wearing at the parade josh hart like
06:40this is a lot of new yorkers favorite players represents a lot right and that's but that's
06:45the thing you have to weigh if you're leon rose it's the again sentimentality is not always everything
06:51popularity is not always everything but it does mean something and to that i've only brought up those
06:57points about the extension to also bring up the fact that i think a factor is what would josh hart
07:02get
07:02elsewhere yeah that that has to be a factor here because it's a market you have to basically basically
07:08what you're doing is you're asking yourself and this is a tough thing in negotiations what would
07:14somebody get elsewhere and what is he worth to you and your team yeah those two things weighing them
07:22and then trying to come with a number while trying to not be disrespectful granted some people
07:27negotiations can be disrespectful and sometimes things work like that but yeah i think that's
07:32the thing so for me you said three for 20 nah can't do it and why would he take the
07:40same money
07:40like i again not my pockets not my money but yeah if if he if he for whatever reason said
07:49yeah i'll take
07:49three for 60 or three for six then fine okay but like why would you do that not like now
07:56if i'm pivoting
07:57to being josh hart's agent it's like you you've increased your value over the course of you being on
08:01this team since you signed four for 80 right you should not take anything less than at least four for
08:09100 four for 110 especially when you're looking at what some of these other dudes make who probably
08:14aren't as impactful as josh hart that's the thing i think a guy who's impactful he shot i know the
08:19three was shaky three ball was shaky in the postseason but shot 41 from downtown you saw that
08:24last year still helped win you playoff games in spite of that though yeah so okay so i'm so you're
08:30i
08:30would say if i was the knicks i think what gives them the most flexibility is this and we'll get
08:37to
08:37another part of this see if you see there's something i thought of as you were talking i would i
08:40want to
08:41see if i think it's if they pick up the option that gives them a little bit of a pay
08:45bump for
08:46the following season and his age 31 season excuse me for that would be for his age 32 season
08:53and if you give him three years on top of that and
09:00let's say 72 million for the three years yeah 24 a year yeah
09:09it's friendly would he do it i don't know can i give you the list of players whose aav is
09:14like 24
09:1525 million a year what we're talking about let's go cam johnson
09:22we're not off to a great i mean that looked like a good deal a couple years ago then it
09:26wasn't
09:27nick claxton his new deal with the it's fine or i guess the deal he had not with the nets
09:33but now
09:33yeah yeah right right not new but new ish because he wasn't signed that long ago dylan brooks
09:39this includes the remember he just agreed to an extension for the kind of players for phoenix
09:44that's fine if you want to say josh hartson a josh hart and dylan brooks are in the same tier
09:49of
09:49player i know that will sound weird to knicks fans but i get it the problem that people are
09:54going to say is and he's going to say in his age is going to say but i'm a champion
09:57correct
09:57those people are not right uh kobe white who just got about 25 million a year from charlotte
10:04this summer i'm gonna i'm just gonna say this if i was josh hart and his agent i would want
10:12more
10:12than kobe white nas reed who signed for exactly 25 million per he's gonna get like over the course
10:20of the deal it'll increase and this is where i i think we'll talk about that in a second that
10:24piece
10:24of it they remember the word increase um isaiah hartenstein funny enough three for 75 coming his
10:31way with that new extension that new extension he got um miles bridges
10:41um an old friend of the team rj barrett is at 26 ish aav uh he's on the last year
10:48of his deal he's
10:48actually gonna be up for and a very interesting yeah that's one of the more interesting free agents
10:53coming up um but but these are the types and these are all deals signed pretty recently dyson
10:58daniels also um extended friend of the program can't shoot but um okay all world defender but
11:06can't shoot i don't have a lot of problem with those guys deals in their range christian brown
11:10is the other one but i feel like that's unfair one year has not looked good but that's i feel
11:15like
11:15that one's unfair because it's like it's the worst guy on this list easily you know easily josh hart
11:22is he definitively the best guy on this list i don't know it's him isaiah hartenstein
11:29well to those guys but those are the guys okay let's just take isaiah hartenstein those guys are
11:35the same tier of player i agree but let's just take isaiah hartenstein once that's a compliment by
11:40the way yeah yeah that's a yeah yeah once a nick always a nick has clearly impacted winning
11:44and it's been a great role play one of the better role players the last few years for the time
11:48he's
11:48and and that's how we should frame it you're paying for a championship level role player yep
11:53this is literally what you're talking about who is the fourth or fifth best player on on your
11:57championship team who could also win you a playoff game or two if you want to tell me per series
12:03you
12:03want to give me three for 75 so he gets right where isaiah hartenstein is i think that's a good
12:09deal
12:09yeah but that's okay that would be my initial offer i'm just we're just talking about initial offers
12:13and i said and i said and i punched a little bit above that i'm like four for 90 which
12:18you're
12:18willing to give the fourth year i'm not i'm assuming you well actually it's four for 90 is not above
12:24that
12:24in terms of aav it's above that in terms of total i'd be prepared to go four for 100 but
12:31i would here's
12:32the thing though so here's how you would here's how i would personally do it if you're doing the four
12:38four for 100 you have to decline the option because you have to start the clock on that contract sooner
12:45and in order for you to sign the deal it's it's kind of like all right we we both have
12:51to give to get
12:51here like we both have to meet in the middle so we decline the option so that you get paid
12:55more
12:56but then the contract becomes a descending contract because josh hart all due respect
13:02he's somebody who probably you want to sign on a descending contract yes instead of an ascending
13:07contract because of how that game could potentially he cuts more into your cap space in the first
13:12couple of years and limits some of your flexibility in the first couple years in those years which
13:16you're trying to defend this title and hopefully keep this window open this is where the current
13:20day towns discussion gets we'll get to that yeah we're gonna get to that yeah by the way and og
13:24and
13:25jaylen jaylen bresson less so because we feel like he's gonna get every dollar but i think one of
13:29the things brian that we hear about and this happens every year free agency and extensions and things of
13:34that nature when you talk to fans you know they'll be like oh these guys make so much money or
13:39why is
13:40it that's not what you pay for this player of this caliber but that's why i love that you went
13:44through
13:44that list yeah because that is the price this is what agents do this right and they're gonna say
13:50this is what they're gonna do they're gonna bring that up bring up those guys and then they're going
13:53to say and this is what i'd say if i was an agent this is the question you have to
13:59then sell what
14:00makes him so valuable to this next team and the question is very simple you probably don't have
14:05to sell them that much they know but you what they know until they don't pay you what you want
14:10yeah important point if you're out there negotiating for more money at your job just because you think
14:16they know doesn't mean they know doesn't mean and doesn't mean they'll respect it when it comes
14:20time to bargain for yourself and for a lot of people this is lesson to the people out there
14:24the respect is in how they pay you or they don't pay you correct you can you can get a
14:28lot of good
14:29jobs hey man you want a championship great job right i'm not saying that josh hart is struggling
14:34for money that's not the point i'm making right but everybody wants to be paid like they feel like
14:38they're worth it doesn't matter what your job is that you're doing yeah so also no one's going to
14:42advocate for you more than you remember that when you're negotiating hopefully your agent hopefully
14:48the question that i think the agent's presenting who's going to be doing his business is
14:53if you took josh hart off this team
14:56what do you how do you replace that and what do you think the hardest thing to replace would be
15:02because this is when we talk about value talking about his value what makes him valuable
15:06that is the question all right take him off this team what's the hardest thing you got to replace
15:12the versatility like the swiss army knife
15:17element that he provides for you which is basically i have somebody who can rebound who's
15:23an elite rebounder for his position arguably the best rebounding guard or the best rebounding
15:29six foot four six foot five guy in the league that's definitely best rebound under rebounder under six
15:34five yeah correct also playmaking because he's a good secondary slash tertiary playmaker
15:43also somebody who's been really good in transition speaking of playmaking doing that in transition but
15:48also scoring in transition and who is a big game player more often than not there have been times
15:54where it hasn't looked great in the playoffs the shots not falling he fouled he's fouling a lot he
15:59can't quite be as impactful but he's also won new playoff games and contributed in winning that
16:05championship it was a big part of that championship it wasn't just the game in cleveland where he was
16:10there to make all those threes and then he made all those threes but there were the rebounds there
16:14were the assists there was a defense also he can guard multiple positions like simon i'll see him
16:19call him he's one of the hardest types of dudes to replace because i agree brings a little bit of
16:24everything it's almost like a junior og ananobi in a way right like because og can bring you so much
16:32on
16:32both sides of the ball that you think about how hard he's how hard he is to replace when he's
16:37not
16:38there josh hart's kind of a version of that because you said how do they replace them and i'm like
16:42okay
16:43if you take if josh hart actually gets like finger surgery which he's apparently going to delay until
16:48he's retired or whatever he said that's what he says but if he actually were to get the finger
16:52surgery and sit out for a while who starts landry shammott think about how much that changes your team
16:58now not to knock landry shammott no but you're saying you are saying all the things that an agent would
17:05say if they're sitting at the negotiation table like landry shammott's going to come in and he's
17:09going to space there's there may be a faction of nick fans who might want this by the way because
17:14there were some of y'all saying that josh hart should come off the bench now where we were saying
17:17like there there will be a time and place but not we're not there i don't think i don't think
17:21we're
17:21there yet right especially after a championship but that being said if you do start landry shammott if
17:26josh hart has to sit out for a while how does that change your team you're not getting the rebounding
17:30you're not getting the multi-positional defending you're getting defending to a degree but you're
17:35not getting the multi-positional defending right you're not getting the same level of playmaking
17:39you're not getting the same threat and transition you're getting a better shooter probably it it's
17:45probably it so i think the first thing that you said when i asked you this question you said
17:50that he is a swiss army knife and so and i agree with you and i think that's exactly how
17:56you
17:56categorize josh hart but i think one of the things that happens is when we talk about two words two
18:02terms swiss army knife and glue guy yes yep i think sometimes that in the eyes of not all basketball
18:11fans but it undersells what you're talking about the importance of the responsibility that said glue
18:19guy or swiss army knife guy might have on the team and you just mentioned a bunch of things in
18:25which
18:26josh hart has a impact on this team and this team relies upon has come to rely upon that and
18:33if he's
18:34not there we've seen this in previous years when he's gotten hurt the impact of that lg and ob is
18:40another good example of that too we saw this with okc because okc signs isaiah hartenstein who for all
18:48intents and purposes of this conversation kind of like the center version of josh hart a little undersized
18:53for the position but rebounds well above his head can is also a good passer and is very complimentary
18:58to the players around him agreed they're very similar players in terms of how they impact their
19:02teams from a two-way standpoint and how they can win you games in the playoffs and chet holmgren
19:09had a rough rough playoff series against the spurs and isaiah hartenstein got that extension when
19:16people weren't sure if he was because it looked like okay they got him they drafted thomas sorber
19:23acl injury sorber could come right it it was timed beautifully he can come right in when isaiah
19:28hartenstein's contract runs out and you by the way he had a team option too and it's like they could
19:32decline it but they signed him to the extension and said because they were like well chet holmgren
19:37might not be ready in the way that we thought they also drafted somebody else to play potentially in
19:44chet holmgren spot in the future yeah yeah yeah like like they added insurance for chet not for
19:50isaiah hartenstein right which is which has a lot and we still don't know what's up with thomas sorber
19:54so like isaiah hartenstein's been very difficult to replace for okc to the point where they're just
19:59not going to do it that's a great point it's a great point and but here's let me just do
20:02this
20:03before we move on to the next thing if you're if i'm playing devil's advocate sure i'm on the other
20:09side of this here yeah and there will be people i'm on the business the business the team ownership
20:14side here folks yeah this this is what happens these negotiations this is how people gonna look
20:20at it they're going to on both sides they're going to think about the things that brian and i said
20:25and that's going to be discussed but they're going to say oh is there a world in which
20:31we could do this cheaper because right this is how things go in society in in in a capitalistic
20:39society welcome to america this is how things go is there a way that we can get two players
20:45to contribute to what he does for this team now me as a basketball lover and viewer
20:53good luck is what i'm going to say to that right i'm not saying it's impossible
20:58i'm just saying good luck you're now asking for to use this term more bites of the apple
21:04to get this done and get a couple players that are going to collaboratively do what josh hart does
21:11again not saying you can't do it just saying i wouldn't bet on it or the simplest way to do
21:17it
21:18is josh hart walks neither of us are necessarily i'm not advocating for this right right no we're not
21:26saying that but in playing out what you just laid out because we just saw this with mitchell robinson
21:31it's like okay we're we're not going to pay mitchell robinson so here comes andre drummond instead
21:36because don't want to go into the second apron for understandable reasons why you don't want to deal
21:41with the second apron but also you do have the money to pay mitchell robinson you just decided not
21:46to which we dealt with the reality that that was the case yeah so the the quick version of this
21:50would be josh hart leaves gets whatever deal elsewhere and then they just draft somebody
21:59and then they do it that way because you want to talk about quote-unquote efficiency and getting the
22:05most out of the least it's just drafting a guy who's going to make two three million a year
22:11until that fourth year whatever and then and then instead of paying somebody 20 whatever million
22:17you're saving you're saving all that money for a rookie and i get it and don't be surprised if
22:22josh hart doesn't have the extension before the season which i'm not sure he will and then during
22:27the year if you're hearing a little bit here and there about some of the some of the places the
22:33knicks
22:33are showing up at to scout some of these rookies and some of the guys that they're scouting are six
22:37six wings who do it all a little bit you know what i mean like guys who are maybe at
22:43the the sec level
22:45and they're averaging like 13 points nine rebounds somebody who's six foot six and they get three
22:52assists a game that connector kind of player right exactly but here's the thing some fans gonna hear
22:56you say it and be like well why can't the knicks do both and i would say to you you
23:00could do both you
23:01could pay and then look for the replacement of the future which is which is kind of what okc might
23:07be
23:07doing to chet holmgren to bring it back to that to right and and this is why team building is
23:13hard
23:13to want to be very clear especially today is very hard yes and the other thing i mentioned just to
23:18put it on the the opposition side you know when you're trying to lower value i'm sure you're gonna
23:24say hey well what about his shooting limitations we saw 41 but i'd i'd be sitting here if i'm the
23:29age of 41 last year right is what i would be and also the cleveland game this manhood shots when
23:34it
23:35matters right and then the other part that you mentioned that i think would be a discussion a
23:39responsible front office would have the discussion and they also would bring up this negotiation it's
23:43like okay we might value all the things that you just said but are you going to value it the
23:47same
23:48if he's coming off the bench if you are going to transition to the bench which is a conversation
23:54you said you're willing to have later do you then want to pay him the same amount of money i
23:58do think
23:59that's a fair question i don't think there's anything wrong with that question i'm not saying that
24:04means you don't pay him or for the service he has but i do think it's a fair question speaking
24:09of the word fair this this is going to be for me you said no to three years 60 million
24:14dollars
24:15no can't do that disrespectful i'd be surprised if he did it would be a i'll be very clear it
24:20would
24:20be a hell of a discount for the knicks yeah hell of a discount i mean they've gotten discounts this
24:26summer we think you called i don't know what you call it magic whatever you want to call it
24:33black male potentially we're not putting that on anybody i said three for 75 this was tacking it
24:41onto the the picking up the option assuming they did that to keep it at what i'm saying is 25
24:46so
24:47even if they drop the option would i be fine with four for 100 yes yeah sure that's that's the
24:53same
24:53av yeah i would you're just saying front loader a little bit more which is your point yeah you don't
24:57have to you don't have to based on a play style it actually would make things maybe a little bit
25:02more difficult to your point if they did that for for the immediate future for the immediate
25:06what i would say yeah for the immediate future but you can do that if you decline the option because
25:10remember brunson and og are not on their next contract next season next season it's the year
25:18after that so that's why you could afford like you have a little bit of a window here it's tricky
25:23but
25:23then the the cloud over all this is what happens with carl anthony towns's contract and if and if he
25:29gets one we're gonna get to that hold on hold hold on to that yeah because that is a cloud
25:33over
25:34everything i think when you're talking about a fair price i can't see him taking below 25 mil on an
25:43av i don't see that so i feel like that's at least where you're kind of starting from yeah do
25:49i think
25:50josh hart will be i think there's a world in which josh hart just to be very clear outside of
25:54the knicks
25:54could get 30. i was gonna say i just want to be very clear i think i think somebody would
25:59give
25:59him 30. his max is four for 132. i don't know what i don't know what the team would be
26:04yet because
26:05you know we have to look through we don't know who's actually going to have cap space like you
26:09could look and project but we don't actually know because so much movement could happen between now
26:13and february but there could be a team who's kind of like on the cusp yeah is he knocking on
26:18the
26:18door yeah they they think he's a guy that can on the cusp and like they have maybe one or
26:24two of
26:25their best players are on their rookie scale contracts and it's like okay like okc and it's
26:29like again going back to isaiah hart you'll be willing to make him take a larger percentage of
26:33right cap and be okay with that right and that's like all right we could do four for 110 120
26:38115 for
26:40josh hart what i think you and i are banking on and probably a little bit of what the knicks
26:44are
26:44banking on leon rosa company's banking on yeah but you know what he likes new york he won here
26:49he wants to stay with his boy brunson he's not going to leave now that sometimes you can have
26:54that feeling and that can go a little bit too far into disrespect and hopefully that doesn't happen
26:59here but i think fear is anything around 25 mil a year and if you want to go above that
27:05but i think
27:06you got to factor in the flexibility guys this is what i'm saying to fans you got to factor in
27:10the
27:10flexibility here that the knicks are going to want and when you're in the second apron era
27:15you got to factor all in now that brings you to what you talked about you can factor in all
27:19the
27:19flexibility we want we can talk about all that stuff but you can't talk about this without talking
27:27about the cap contract extension which we talked about earlier this summer and it'll continue to
27:31be discussed as long as he remains without a contract so i guess the burning question for me
27:38is really this should the knicks set heart's value independently or is it a situation where
27:51what they pay cat has to come first because there's gonna have to be somewhat of a pecking
27:56order in how you do this and how you prioritize this or you just say hey man this is what
28:00we value
28:01you heart at and that's gonna be that or does what cat takes yeah it's but that is the question
28:10because i'm thinking i'm like the question does it matter what comes first
28:17does it actually yes so yes to me it does okay what if what if if that's the case then
28:25you have
28:26to deal with cat first i agree but it's the cleaner way but what but what if what if you're
28:34further apart with cat and with josh hart you have more of an understanding does josh hart then have to
28:40wait because if i'm if i'm both of the players by the way if i'm both of the players this
28:45is important
28:46if i'm both of the players i want this done as soon as possible getting older if you're the next
28:52you
28:52feel like you have to get if you're the knicks you don't want to get this done asap i mean
28:57not
28:57want to but you don't feel the need to if you're the players you want it as soon as possible
29:02because
29:03josh hart's going into year 10 he is not in a contract year technically but because of the team
29:09option yeah hope and hold that for all intents and purposes like he's in a contract year cat's in a
29:18contract year because he has a player option to deal with that he can just decline and that's why
29:22to me you got to deal with the cat first on top of him just being better and more expensive
29:28more
29:29expensive already like much more much more expensive already he he'll probably get he might get if we're
29:36talking about josh hart in at 25 26 cats getting more than double that annually probably because he
29:41already was getting he's already getting that he's already getting 60 something million a year and he
29:47played like he played like a bona fide top 15 player right he's getting 60 something million
29:52next year this year he's getting 57 he's get his player option will be 61 million the following
29:58season what i'm saying is yes i i think josh hart is not josh hart's max is four for 132
30:04right by the way
30:05by the way he could also just not sign anything and and try to risk hitting free agency down the
30:12line if
30:12his team option doesn't get accepted and then sign for more money but that's like risky because he
30:15doesn't have the option but four for 132 being his max that's 33 million a year which is not like
30:22if you really think about what we're talking about 30 a year not being crazy i mean 33 million a
30:29year
30:29is what who's getting about 33 million a year right now but that's but that's to that point that's why
30:35because that's not so much of a percentage of the cap you want to figure out the person that's going
30:40to
30:40take the larger percentage of your cap you'd rather get the business done with that first so then you
30:45could figure out the rest of your books do you want the list of guys making about his max right
30:48now
30:49let me hear this 33 about 33 million walker kessler
30:55huh huh this is not a good contract but emmanuel quickly yeah it's not well because he hasn't been
31:01healthy yeah julius randall
31:06next fans be nice man be nice that's all i'm gonna say drew holiday his new deal is four for
31:12134
31:15not worth it not worth what he's getting paid i don't love drew holiday but no it better than
31:20expected last year but i don't disagree jaylen green's around there aaron gordon's around there
31:24aaron gordon's actually a really good comp for what we're talking about with josh hart too
31:28by the way champion and he's in that isaiah hartenstein josh harvard aaron gordon like
31:34these are the nba's best role players probably and those guys tend to make around we're talking
31:39about 25 30 35 million a year this is what drew holiday also not today but but when he's at
31:47the
31:47peak of his powers two-time champion yeah listen yeah to your point this is what is going to be
31:53brought up in negotiations also also also jordan pool jeremy grant but neither here nor there
31:59some buyer's remorse on those contracts um i do think you have to do think you have to
32:07it would be ideal let me say you have to it would be ideal to handle the heart
32:11the cat situation first yeah before you get to heart yeah um i think because you got to see if
32:17you
32:17have enough left for josh hart at that right and i think the knicks would like to keep the starting
32:22group we don't know how much or how much they will not be handcuffed we saw leon rose and company
32:28were
32:28a bit handcuffed because the owner did not want to go in the second apron this summer we clearly saw
32:32that but what how the way the mitchell robinson situation went down how does these are all questions
32:38i'm just throwing out here fans how does the organization feel about players taking discounts
32:43do they expect them to take discounts is the expectation to take discounts because jalen brunson
32:48already took one a couple of years ago is that the expectations right and i don't like this for a
32:54lot of teams and owners doing this and all this other stuff i don't really like that but and if
32:58you
32:58are let's just say they are going to go there i'm not saying they will go there but if you
33:02are going
33:02to go there and you are going to replace josh hart are you considering what the cost of that would
33:08be
33:08and what i mean by that is not just financially but how much it would weaken the team those are
33:14other
33:14things i think that have to be thought about a couple things before we get out of here
33:19the timing you should the knicks extend hart now or should they wait that is that is a huge question
33:28because we mentioned the knicks holds his team option in 2027 2028 and i think the question that
33:34a lot of fans are going to think about is what do the knicks gain by extending hart right now
33:43and then what do they gain by waiting right now well i think one of the obvious things if you
33:47if
33:47you extend him right right now right you don't have to worry about anything and then you could also
33:54announce whether you know what you're paying him for next year and beyond you know what the books look
33:58like right now but it's the same thing for gronty towns you know what the books look like you'd like
34:05to know these things before you go into future off seasons especially when you're going to have to
34:10talk about a jalen brunson extension which absolutely is coming and an ojan and obi extension
34:15which we talk about too and then who knows what the team looks like by then because maybe they will
34:19be a second apron team maybe they will not there's a lot of stuff with that do you think um
34:27do you think the knicks wait or you think they try to get this done now i think they wait
34:33i just
34:35i wonder how hard the players push cat more so because he has the player option cat has more
34:43autonomy on what he could do josh hart is kind of at the mercy of the team option anyway and
34:50if the
34:50knicks pick up that team option i was doing some quick math you're already committing 144 million next
34:56season yep to og jalen brunson mikhail bridges and josh hart if josh hart's option is taken care of
35:03if you add in landry shammott you add in jose alvarado and you add in mo diawara who are all
35:07signed for next year then that takes you to 156 million roughly and that's just seven players
35:15not to mention tyler cole that could also bring you up to about 158 or so right that's still a
35:23while
35:23away from you know penalties and things of that nature but the salary cap for this year is 164.9
35:30million
35:31so you're right up against that already luxury tax 200 million this year we'll see where it's at next
35:37year first apron 209 million second apron right now is above 221 million yep but if you're committing
35:46already 156 between seven players next year carl anthony towns still has to be determined and this is
35:55why i think cat has to come first and it's like if you're if you're adding in like if cat
36:01just takes
36:01the player option and it's like i'm gonna test for agency after after the season so this would be
36:07next year that would be 61 million added to what you would already have so that's 217 million dollars
36:14you're right up against you're already up against the second april and you still have to fill out a
36:19roster which is which is to say if he signs a new contract and even if it's for a little
36:24bit less
36:24like you're probably still a first apron team regardless of that so i don't remember what the
36:31question was if you're the knicks would you would you extend them now would you wait oh yeah yeah yeah
36:36i already answered that i think the knicks are going to the knicks are going to wait and if i
36:40were
36:40the knicks i would wait but if i'm the players specifically if i'm cat i'm pushing now and if i'm
36:45josh hart i'm pushing now too like i'm getting my agent to be like hey like well we we can
36:50take a
36:51quote-unquote sweetheart deal if we get some long-term security here because he needs to
36:55prioritize long-term security well see that's the thing and if i'm the knicks this is where i can
37:00make the case for why you want to get something done with both players sooner rather than later
37:05and it's more so for josh hart than it is for a cat here because you like you said cat's
37:11got
37:11cat's got the control but here's what i'm going to say yeah oh it kind of could apply to both
37:17guys
37:19what if both guys just kill it this season
37:22but and you don't get an extension done let's say they both just have great years
37:28josh hart would just shoot 41 but let's say he does that and then does it again in the playoffs
37:32and i'm forget the result whatever happens to the knicks whether they win or not
37:37now price has gone up yesterday's price is definitely not today's price and cat could
37:41be a free agent now after the season that's the risk the knicks are taking you see what i'm saying
37:46yeah that's the risk they're taking by playing this game if guys stay about the same then yesterday's
37:53price could be the price that it is today or i mean two guys who have had injuries in the
37:58past
37:59so like this is this is why it's a gamble for everybody it's a gamble for everybody involved and
38:03that that is the that is the game you play all right we're gonna wrap on this
38:09we've talked about value and age and fit and the payroll and all this stuff now to go back because
38:16i asked you at the beginning if you're leon rose what's your first offer to josh hart if you're leon
38:22rose now after you've talked all this out you sat at the table it's funny because we're sitting at
38:26the table what would be your final contract offer the first the furthest i'm willing to go
38:32furthest you're willing to go like you're not this is where you're like i i can't i can't go
38:37past this too much well it depends on how much you want to keep cat but like for if we're
38:43if we're
38:44just doing this independently if we're just doing this independently and it's like yeah yeah and it's
38:48like i just need to figure out what i'm willing to pay josh hart i think he's 30 million dollar
38:53per
38:54year player based on who i'm looking at make you know make that amount of money based on what i've
39:00seen
39:00from him i think he's a 30 million dollar player based on today's nba would i do that for four
39:07and
39:07120 that's where it's a little iffy i'd probably prefer three for 90 if that's the case and it's
39:13like we could figure this out are you picking up the option so no so that that's kind of the
39:19thing
39:20it's like you would decline the option and be like yo i'll give you three for 90 right now
39:23now but this will be descending because brunson again doesn't kick in for a little bit neither does
39:30og the new deal so it's like all right you could pay josh hart a little bit more now but
39:35then you
39:35have to figure out the cat situation differently and it's like look that's that's it's a good problem
39:39to have but it's still a problem but i i think for josh hart you cannot be uh someone covering
39:48the
39:48knicks someone who's a nick fan someone who's observing the nba and just tell me with a straight
39:54face josh hart should just take three for 60 or just 20 million a year after what we see well
39:59people
39:59gonna say that yeah it's not their money come on man he's increased his value a decent amount
40:06since getting here like i i'd be i'd be thrilled if he were to take 25 million per year i
40:12would be
40:12thrilled but i'd be i'd be okay with paying him 30 million per year 30 might be a little too
40:17high for me
40:18understood because the client descending though not not ascending is difficult because then at
40:23the end you're talking about 33 34 million and it's like not because i don't want to see him get
40:28it but because i think the biggest thing that teams have right now contending teams that are up
40:35against the aprons is flexibility yeah and i want to try to keep a little bit of that now if
40:41i can get
40:41if i can stick with my initial offer three for 25 or four you know three for 75 four for
40:47100 whatever
40:48cool i think where i'd be willing to go up to for a final offer is 27 as my av
40:55three years or four
40:57years i'm assuming not fourth four four for like 120 is i mean not 120 um 110 is around what
41:09you're
41:09probably talking about i can i also don't know if i want to do four years i've been saying that
41:13yeah three would be ideal see that's why i might want to try to pick up the team option get
41:18that
41:18first year still at 22 so you can still have some flexibility while you're in this window of this
41:25season and next season right you see what i'm saying so you and we're talking about this from a team
41:28building standpoint because if i because if i could play if i if i'm the role of josh hart's agent
41:34like we're asking for the four for 132 no you got to you have to like there's no way you
41:40cannot
41:40and with all the reasons we've talked about in terms of what he he four for 132 by the way
41:47would still make him the fourth and if carl anthony towns gets done fifth highest paid player on the
41:53team but i think which is part of the see this is this comes down to timing people if mikhail
41:59bridges
42:00wasn't up for a new contract when he was a couple extra years like yeah like and if josh hart
42:06was
42:07eligible for this last year then josh hart would be signed by now and then we'd have a conversation
42:11about mikhail bridges probably would be a lot like interesting on a different level right but
42:16mikhail bridges got his deal he did and he but here's the thing josh hart would still be making
42:22less even if he got his max than mikhail bridges right now he would but the knicks want to try
42:26especially and i would say the 2026-27 season and 27-28 season those two seasons because if we're
42:33thinking this team is another two possibly three years but at least two years of flexibility of
42:37championship contention they want to keep that flexibility open as much as possible right which
42:41is why i was like if you can keep the team option and then tack on that and pay him
42:46post the 27-28
42:48season now could that be expensive you're paying him a lot for his years 33 through 36 that's a lot
42:55and the other thing to keep in mind but that's the championship tax is what i'm saying another thing
42:59to keep in mind is look if this was a just a money conversation i think a lot of you
43:05guys watching
43:06this would agree mikhail bridges four for 150 versus josh hart four for 120 110 is mikhail really 30 40
43:18even 20 million dollars better than josh hart is he better than him period like that this is a debate
43:24you
43:25could have and then and obviously you know you're paying you're i think on that you're also paying
43:30for availability with mikhail bridges he never gets hurt you're also paying for you know that's part
43:34of value though right there's a lot of things there's a part different different parts of value
43:38the two-way play and all these different things but at the same time this could also be as simple
43:43as
43:44hey they signed josh hart and they just trade somebody else and the somebody else would probably have to
43:49be mikhail because it's not going to be og or jalen brunson unless they just let carl anthony towns
43:54walk through the door see that's the thing if you're going to keep this together which is going
43:58to be very difficult to do one of mikhail bridges josh hart carl anthony towns might not be here for
44:06much longer now how much like that's just that's just how much i agree how much how much that much
44:12longer is that's interesting i think it's more likely that it happens after the 27 28 season yeah but
44:17that does not mean it could not happen before right just want to be very clear i agree that
44:21does not mean that it could not happen before and this is why i have to look at that i
44:24think the
44:24purpose of this was to try to discuss and let people know this is what's all going to be brought
44:29up in these negotiations this is what's talked about in team building this is what's talked about
44:32between players and their agents all these things are discussed when you look at the value but
44:37you know i think at the first i was like okay i can be 25 aav but i'd be willing
44:42to go up to 27
44:43you're willing to go up to 30 that would be very interesting what you would offer
44:47let us know in the comments what do you think what would you think is a fair deal for josh
44:52hart
44:52maybe you're rocking with the three for 60 maybe that's the time you're on if you're rocking with
44:55that that's cool if he takes that i'm just curious as to what mike and ike's mike and ike's don't
45:00pay
45:00that much like come on i'm very curious as to what fans think we like to see josh hart get
45:05paid too
45:05just to be very clear and cat see the players get paid too and also we want to see that
45:09salute to
45:10mikhail bridges you got paid og should get paid jalen brunson should obviously get paid like
45:16and don't take another discount and the team should hopefully be able to try to keep their
45:20championship window open for as long as reasonably as they can do it but in today's nba man hard it
45:26is not look if you get two more years great god bless great yeah i know i know it doesn't
45:32sound
45:32like enough guys but this is the world we are in in the nba so again let us know what
45:37you think in
45:37the comments about josh hart what kind of contract extension should he get what would you give give us
45:43a number save your chest let us know what you think we will have more i'm sure there'll be a
45:47lot more to talk about in the next team roster building as we get closer to the season as we
45:51look at whose extensions are excuse me whose options are picked up or not picked up what extension
45:56conversations there are or are not who is trade eligible there's gonna be so much more to talk
46:01about in terms of transactions but this is what makes it fun we're able to talk about some
46:04transactions with nuance that's my guy brian fonseca i'm dexter henry we'll catch you next time
46:10for another edition of new york cup game peace and thanks for watching new york cup game
46:18boob shakalaka
46:19you
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