- 1 week ago
This week, we’re focusing on two major stories: the Lindsay Clancy mistrial and a shooting that broke out in a Minnesota apartment building, leaving two dead and others injured, including police officers. We also have updates on the Tupac trial and the D4vd trial.
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00:00:05This is a True Crime Roundup from the On Deadline podcast.
00:00:10We explore crime stories reported on by Odyssey's radio newsrooms across the country.
00:00:16I'm your host, Lauren Berry.
00:00:19This week, we're focusing on two major stories, the Lindsay Clancy mistrial and a shooting
00:00:26that broke out in a Minnesota apartment building, leaving two dead and others injured, including
00:00:32police officers.
00:00:33A disgruntled resident of that building has been identified as the shooter in the Minnesota
00:00:39case.
00:00:39We'll hear Odyssey Station, WCCO News & Talk react to news about the case breaking in real
00:00:46time.
00:00:47But first, we'll hear real-time reactions to the confusing and somewhat chaotic jury deliberation
00:00:55that ended the controversial trial of Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts mother accused of
00:01:01strangling her three children.
00:01:03Clancy's legal team argued that she suffered from the rare postpartum psychosis disorder,
00:01:10and her story opened up a national conversation about postpartum disorders.
00:01:17Just as the public struggled to come up with easy conclusions in the Clancy case, the jury
00:01:23deadlocked, and eventually it ended in a mistrial.
00:01:27Will the prosecution seek another trial?
00:01:30We'll hear legal experts weigh in about the case and what happens next.
00:01:36Before we get into the Clancy case, we also have updates on two cases related to well-known
00:01:42musicians.
00:01:43One involves a legendary rapper.
00:01:46The other involves someone who was an up-and-coming music star, who then became infamous when the
00:01:53body of a teen girl was found in a Tesla registered to him.
00:01:57Here's Odyssey Station KNX News in Los Angeles this week with the latest on David Anthony Burke,
00:02:05who goes by the stage name David, stylized as D4VD.
00:02:11To downtown LA now, outside a court where the singer David was arraigned, and as expected,
00:02:16he pleaded not guilty to murdering 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez.
00:02:20But the shake-up was with his legal team.
00:02:22His attorneys are gone.
00:02:23The DA's also been talking.
00:02:24John Baird has been there all morning.
00:02:26He's live with us now.
00:02:27John?
00:02:27Yeah, it was longer than usual arraignment that I've seen.
00:02:30It was probably twice as long as usual, but they were dealing with the attorney issue.
00:02:34But also, the DA laid out the specific charges here, first-degree murder or special circumstances,
00:02:42lewd and lascivious sex acts with a person under 14, and mutilation of human remains.
00:02:49He says the judge held David Anthony Burke to answer for those charges.
00:02:54He entered a not guilty plea, but there were a number of things they dealt with,
00:02:59and DA Nathan Hockman addressed a number of them here outside the courthouse.
00:03:04The last thing that will have to be decided, and that's a decision by myself as a district attorney,
00:03:09is whether or not we'll be seeking the death penalty in this case.
00:03:12We had invited David Anthony Burke's prior counsel to submit what's called a mitigation packet
00:03:19to the district attorney's office for consideration.
00:03:22A mitigation packet are factors that we are to consider why we should not bring the death penalty in this
00:03:29case.
00:03:30So, again, they haven't made a decision on that.
00:03:32But as far as counsel goes, David Anthony Burke is switching to the public defender's office.
00:03:39He is switching out from his private attorneys, probably high-dollar attorneys, to the public defender's office.
00:03:47And so we're wondering about that because of his music career that started to make him a lot of money.
00:03:52But at this point, it looks like he's going to switch out to the public defender.
00:03:57Thirty years after legendary rapper Tupac was murdered, a man has been found guilty of the slaying.
00:04:05One of the reporters covering the case joined KNX before the verdict was announced.
00:04:10Let's go to Vegas for the Tupac trial, the Tupac murder trial, because it's already starting to wrap up.
00:04:15Closing arguments will get underway today.
00:04:16This is for Dwayne Keefe-Dee Davis, and not for firing the shots, but for being the shot caller.
00:04:21We're live now with AP reporter Jessica Hill, who's been covering this.
00:04:25Jessica, thanks for being here.
00:04:27Thanks so much for having me.
00:04:28Are you surprised that this just lasted two weeks and you're already getting the closing arguments?
00:04:33Oh, yes. Yeah.
00:04:34Prosecutors had estimated to have, like, up to 45 witnesses, and I believe only, like, 24 have been called.
00:04:40I think that they have run into some difficulties in getting people to come out.
00:04:43I spoke with the defense attorney, and he said that some people just, you know, won't come out and testify
00:04:48on their behalf.
00:04:50Do you think that benefits one side or the other?
00:04:52Because even with the 25, that's still a much longer list than what the defense had.
00:04:56For sure.
00:04:58Talking with the defense attorney, he seems pretty hopeful.
00:05:00He doesn't think jury deliberation will take very long.
00:05:02And he seems pretty adamant that, you know, his client is just lying and can't be relied upon with his
00:05:09own words.
00:05:10I mean, what has been your take on the jury?
00:05:12I know it's hard to read them sometimes, but just wondering, since you've been covering the trial, what have you
00:05:16seen from them?
00:05:17When do they start to scribble furiously in the notebooks, right?
00:05:20Yeah, it's been like a mix.
00:05:22They've all seemed to pay pretty close attention.
00:05:25I noticed, like, the autopsy photos were of high, like, attention for them.
00:05:30But some of these interview recordings that prosecutors played seemed to kind of slow things down.
00:05:36Some people had to, you know, call for a break after a while, because I'm sure you've been paying attention.
00:05:41But there's been just, like, recording after recording after recording in which Dwayne Davis says basically the same thing over
00:05:47and over again.
00:05:48So some areas have been kind of tiring for these jurors.
00:05:51Remind us, because we did talk before about this jury, but some of these people, after 30 years, they don't
00:05:55really know much about this case.
00:05:57These are not like the Tupac documentary watchers.
00:06:00Exactly.
00:06:01Yeah, some of them have, like, heard of him vaguely.
00:06:02Some of them have heard that he died here maybe a few years ago.
00:06:07They had listened to his music.
00:06:08But for the most part, there are quite a few jurors that don't even know who he is.
00:06:12And really, when it comes to the prosecution, this is really like Kefi D's words coming back to bite him.
00:06:18Exactly.
00:06:19Yeah, they've relied on previous statements that he made, a lot of media interviews with documentarians and portions of his
00:06:25own book.
00:06:26And then the defense has basically said that, you know, they've never tried to verify any of these claims and
00:06:32have never been able to prove anything with, like, actual fiscal evidence that connects Davis to any of these crimes.
00:06:37Yeah, so the words could come back to bite him if they bite him, because you've touched on this, but
00:06:41his own defense is painting him as the unreliable narrator saying, look, I was lying.
00:06:46I wanted some fame.
00:06:47I wanted money, but I didn't actually do all the things.
00:06:49And he's gone so far as to say that he wasn't even in Vegas at the time after repeatedly saying
00:06:54that, no, he was in the car right next to him, the car that actually, you know, where the shots
00:06:59were fired from.
00:07:00That's exactly right.
00:07:01Yeah.
00:07:01And prosecutors, like, tried to show some physical evidence, but we really haven't seen much.
00:07:06One investigator had talked about a bill, a hotel bill from Las Vegas that was found in Davis's home.
00:07:12However, we never saw that bill, and we don't know the exact date that that bill came from.
00:07:16So there's not too much physical evidence, which the prosecution had been upfront about telling jurors at the very beginning
00:07:22that, you know, what is your definition of evidence?
00:07:25You know, there might be a lack of physical evidence, but, you know, is a man's own words enough to
00:07:29convict him?
00:07:30Well, we'll find out.
00:07:31AP reporter Jessica Hill, who's been covering this Tupac murder trial in Vegas.
00:07:35Thanks so much.
00:07:38Now we'll move on to the Lindsay Clancy murder trial.
00:07:42Clancy allegedly killed her three young children and attempted to take her own life by falling out of a window
00:07:49at her home.
00:07:51She remains paralyzed.
00:07:53Clancy's defense team has argued that she was suffering from postpartum psychosis.
00:07:59And she has described hearing voices that told her to kill her children.
00:08:04Leading up to the tragedy, Clancy did seek mental health care and was prescribed multiple medications.
00:08:12Though the jury in the case deliberated for more than seven days, they couldn't reach a unanimous verdict.
00:08:20Judge William Sullivan eventually called a mistrial.
00:08:24According to reports from ABC News and other outlets, a lone holdout juror refused to vote for acquittal.
00:08:33ABC said the mood in the courtroom was tense when people learned that the case was going to be a
00:08:39mistrial.
00:08:40Here's Odyssey's Annie Fry out of KFTK in St. Louis reacting to the courtroom proceedings on Friday, September 4th.
00:08:50I want to interrupt.
00:08:51Can we interrupt and listen to the TV real quick?
00:08:53The judge is talking in the Clancy trial.
00:08:55Let me let me just just wanted to go over a couple of things.
00:08:58I think he's talking to the jury.
00:08:59First off, I want to remind you that you are required to follow my instructions on the law as I
00:09:06gave them to you.
00:09:07All right.
00:09:08I also want to at this point go over the instruction that I gave you about reasonable doubt.
00:09:16All right.
00:09:16And so reasonable doubt.
00:09:19The burden is on the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty of the charges
00:09:25made against her.
00:09:26What is proof beyond a reasonable doubt?
00:09:29Well, the term is often used and probably pretty well understood, though it's not easily defined.
00:09:35Proof beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean proof beyond all possible doubt.
00:09:42The Dave Glover team out of Odyssey Station KMOX in St. Louis asked attorney Brad Young to weigh in on
00:09:50what was happening in the Clancy trial.
00:09:52Brad, maybe you can make some heads or tails out of this.
00:09:55It's all kind of chaotic.
00:09:58But what we're seeing in this Lindsay Clancy case is that the judge is calling the jurors up to his
00:10:06bench for a sidebar with them one by one.
00:10:12And the defense attorney, Mr. Reddington, evidently just threw a hissy fit and was throwing things.
00:10:18Any idea?
00:10:19I've never heard of this, calling jurors up one by one.
00:10:21While Lindsay Clancy is a part of the sidebar.
00:10:25So the defendant's up there, too.
00:10:27Yes.
00:10:28Oh, yeah, that changes.
00:10:30That completely changes my analysis because I have heard of judges doing a one by one in what we call
00:10:36the hammer instruction.
00:10:37You've heard that term before.
00:10:39That's where the judge basically does everything but whack him with his mallet to say, go back in there and
00:10:44reach a decision because we don't want a hung jury here.
00:10:47But I have never, ever heard of the defendant being a part of the sidebar in that kind of situation.
00:10:58Yeah, it's quite unusual from what I get.
00:11:01I mean, just looking at Twitter here, Brad, it's a it's really hard to parse out what's happening.
00:11:05And then also listening to our ABC coverage in one year during the break.
00:11:09They're trying to figure out what's going on, too.
00:11:11So let's let's see.
00:11:13I'm going to pot it up for a second here because on CNN anyway, it looks like there's something happening
00:11:18in the courtroom.
00:11:18So let's see what ABC is saying.
00:11:29It's a live feed from the courtroom.
00:11:36And they're waiting on something.
00:11:38And I believe that is the defense attorney.
00:11:44Shuffling while we're hearing that, I can tell you one thing.
00:11:47I've been in trials where the judge wanted to actually question the plaintiff or the defendant.
00:11:55And I, like Clancy's attorney, I threw a hissy fit because if the judge asks an improper question.
00:12:01We're going to continue to watch these live pictures inside.
00:12:03Who do you object to?
00:12:04Yeah.
00:12:05Jury told the judge that they're inextricably deadlocked.
00:12:08He called them up one by one.
00:12:10And now, instead of just sending a hammer instruction to them as a note, he's telling them right now, this
00:12:17is what I told you before.
00:12:19Get your butts back in there and get the job done one way or the other.
00:12:22I think this is a public hammer instruction, what we're seeing right here.
00:12:27This is about the longest I've seen a judge keep a jury.
00:12:31Yeah, but you know what?
00:12:33Even the judge knows, especially the judge knows, that this is a media circus.
00:12:38And he doesn't want to see the state have to go through this again one way or the other.
00:12:43Because, frankly, appeals are likely.
00:12:45Certainly, if there's a conviction, an appeal is likely.
00:12:48If there's an acquittal, that's not going to happen in most instances.
00:12:52But he wants this to be done, at least from the circuit court level.
00:12:56And the way you do it is keep hammering the jury to get back in there and get the job
00:13:00done.
00:13:00At the end of the day, like I said, I think it was on Tuesday.
00:13:03I think the issue isn't whether she's guilty or innocent.
00:13:07But the issue from the jury is, is she guilty of first degree, second degree, or manslaughter?
00:13:13And that's what's got them all tied up.
00:13:14Man, really interesting coverage.
00:13:17We have CNN up on the television here.
00:13:19We're able to see it.
00:13:20I don't know if you were able to see this, Brad, but the defense attorney had his chair
00:13:25positioned, like facing the jury, kind of staring them down as the judge was making these
00:13:31statements.
00:13:32And then the camera was zooming in on Lindsey Clancy as well, who eventually kind of turned
00:13:37her chin a bit and was clearly looking down at the jury.
00:13:41Interesting stuff.
00:13:43Yeah, lots of games are played.
00:13:45I mean, and that's the subjective part of litigation is that there's a lot of mind
00:13:50games.
00:13:51There's a lot of second guessing one way or the other.
00:13:53There's a lot of intimidation.
00:13:55There's a lot of posturing.
00:13:57And and that happens.
00:13:58And sometimes when you watch stuff on TV, like in fiction, like the Lincoln lawyer or something,
00:14:04they obviously exaggerate how much that exists.
00:14:10Another expert, attorney Terry Connors, joined Odyssey station WBEN News and Talk in Buffalo
00:14:18to discuss the case this week before the mistrial was announced.
00:14:23He dove into why the jury might have been having so much trouble.
00:14:28Terry, you have so much experience with this.
00:14:31What do you think this jury is struggling with?
00:14:35Well, they're struggling right now with the issue with regard to not guilty by reason of
00:14:40insanity.
00:14:41That is going to be the most difficult thing for them to decide.
00:14:44That's what's causing the split.
00:14:46And in Massachusetts, the burden is on the Commonwealth to prove that she was saying at the time of
00:14:53the commission of the acts.
00:14:55That's what most of the trial was about.
00:14:57And that's no doubt what they're deliberating.
00:14:59That's no doubt what the nine women and the three men are stuck on right now and trying to
00:15:04make a decision about whether or not the prosecution has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that she
00:15:10was saying at the time of these horrendous killings.
00:15:12The makeup of that jury that you just mentioned, nine women and three men, that, you know,
00:15:19they get to go through and pick the jury and both sides get to veto some and allow others.
00:15:27But I feel like a lot of attention is being placed on that just because of the makeup and
00:15:34because of what the case is really all about.
00:15:38How much weight do you put on having a majority women on that jury in what we saw yesterday?
00:15:45It's interesting, Brian.
00:15:46You know, I've been doing this for a number of years.
00:15:49And the more you speculate about the content of a jury, the more opportunity for you to get
00:15:54it wrong now, the commentators have said, well, the women might be somewhat sympathetic
00:16:01to the situation because they would be more cognizant of the feelings that a woman might
00:16:08have when she's going through postpartum psychosis.
00:16:11Others have said, well, but the men would be less likely to judge.
00:16:16It's very difficult to speculate.
00:16:18And often when you do, you're wrong.
00:16:20But I would say this, the nine women are going to give you a very good perspective.
00:16:26They've not revealed the ages of the women, but they're going to give you the kind of
00:16:30insight that obviously no other sex can give you.
00:16:34And that's going to be very important.
00:16:36And I'm sure that went into it when the prosecution and the defense were deciding what challenges
00:16:41to exercise and who should remain on that jury.
00:16:44So it will be a factor, no question about it.
00:16:46But you won't know the division of debate until after the trial.
00:16:52This jury has spent a lot of time with this case.
00:16:56And there's been a lot of back and forth about whether they should have been sequestered
00:16:59or not.
00:17:00I mean, they're going home at night and they are exposed to an awful lot of coverage of
00:17:04this trial.
00:17:05Is that impacting this?
00:17:08Well, there's been a real shift in the psychology of sequestration.
00:17:11If you go back a number of years, you'll probably recall that most of the juries, especially
00:17:16in a capital case or in a murder case, were sequestered for that very reason, Susan.
00:17:20But the psychological evaluation now is jurors are inconvenienced enough.
00:17:28They're kept out of their homes, away from their family.
00:17:31You have to trust them.
00:17:33They took an oath.
00:17:33You've got to put them back into their comfortable environment.
00:17:37And it's going to be easier and it's going to result in quicker deliberations.
00:17:41Can't say who's right or who's wrong, but that's the way the current status is.
00:17:45Let them go home.
00:17:46Let them go back to the community.
00:17:48Let them go back to their support groups.
00:17:49Tell them before they leave, as Judge Sullivan did, you cannot look at any extraneous information.
00:17:55You cannot read media accounts or even talk to your neighbors or your family members.
00:18:00But at least they'll be home in their own environment.
00:18:03That's the common perspective now.
00:18:05And all of that might lead to better results in an initial trial.
00:18:09But what if there is a mistrial and another trial in this?
00:18:14And I'm thinking of another Massachusetts case, and that's the Karen Reed trial that got so much attention.
00:18:21All of a sudden, there's, all right, a different jury comes in and there's another trial.
00:18:27Wow. And there's no way that a different jury now, you know, after all the attention couldn't have been influenced
00:18:33by some of the outside noise around the Karen Reed case.
00:18:37And, you know, this has gotten similar attention.
00:18:40If there is a mistrial, what happens for a second trial?
00:18:44Well, that's a great question.
00:18:47You might be surprised, though.
00:18:48I've been involved in second trials before.
00:18:51And while you and I and Susan follow these things very closely, in the voir dire, the jury selection process
00:18:58for the second trial, each of the jurors is asked specifically what their knowledge is about the previous case.
00:19:04Now, there'll be a delay. There'll be several months.
00:19:06It won't go right away if there is a second trial.
00:19:09And you'd be surprised how many jurors, at least in the inquiry by the judge and by the lawyers, say,
00:19:16I don't have that much information about it.
00:19:18I didn't follow it that closely.
00:19:20Now, whether or not they're telling the truth, you don't really know.
00:19:22But you'd be surprised at how many will say that I'm starting with a clean slate.
00:19:27And therefore, I feel as though I can make this decision based upon the evidence that's produced in the courtroom.
00:19:32For more on what comes next, attorney Sheena Foy of law firm Worsh, Hobbs & Merakian joined the Dana &
00:19:41Parks show out of Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City.
00:19:45What do we make of the flurry of activity that we saw here today and the fireworks and the judge
00:19:51refusing really to change his position on what happened here during deliberations?
00:19:59That's question number one.
00:20:00And then question number two, do you think we'll hear from any of these jurors?
00:20:03Are they going into hiding?
00:20:06Well, there was definitely a this case has really had a lot of very interesting twists.
00:20:14I think what the judge was doing today, what defense had asked was for him to individually question the one
00:20:23juror who I believe on the note was named by number as being called out by the other jurors for
00:20:29not applying the law.
00:20:31And so what he was asking was for that judge, for Judge Sullivan to further question that individual juror.
00:20:38And what Judge Sullivan was saying is, I'm not going to do further than what I've already done.
00:20:43Every juror told me that they were going to follow the law.
00:20:46And based off of that, that's only the inquiry I'm going to do.
00:20:50He then defense counsel then sought to seek review of that decision by Judge Sullivan to not do further inquiry
00:20:59of that juror.
00:21:00And the high court in Massachusetts denied to stay that request.
00:21:04And so Judge Sullivan was then free to issue the mistrial.
00:21:10He said, wait, this went to a higher court and the higher court said no.
00:21:14That they're not going to stay the proceeding.
00:21:15They're going to defer to Judge Sullivan.
00:21:17What's your take on that, Sheena?
00:21:19The foreperson foreman of this jury, I think actually I think it's a woman, but the foreperson sent out a
00:21:26note saying we have a juror.
00:21:28And you're right.
00:21:28They did identify the juror by number, which I think is not supposed to happen regardless.
00:21:34That is not following the law.
00:21:38Should the judge have pulled that one juror aside or maybe there's a different argument here, pulled the foreperson aside
00:21:46or sent a note back saying, what do you mean that this juror is not following the law?
00:21:51Give me an example.
00:21:53So I think the judge is in a very hard position here.
00:21:57What happens in jury rooms is supposed to be the utmost confidence in secrecy.
00:22:04It's a sacred proceeding, but the Miss Clancy, she also has constitutional rights.
00:22:10And so without having the note in front of me, what I believe the content of the note was, is
00:22:16that this juror, this particular juror is refusing to follow the law in the reasonable doubt instruction, meaning that they
00:22:24have expressed doubts and they're not following through.
00:22:27And so, you know, I think that Mr. Reddington did everything right in veloci advocating for his client and pushing
00:22:35for that.
00:22:37In terms of the judge not seeking further inquiry, I don't necessarily think that that's going to be an issue
00:22:43that an appellate court would reverse him on.
00:22:47And so I think he was just erring on the side of caution and there was nothing in that note
00:22:52that would have said, you know, there was any wrongdoing going on other than potentially that one juror didn't feel
00:23:01like the doubt he had was sufficient.
00:23:04Or, you know, it's kind of a vague instruction, like what is reasonable doubt?
00:23:09And so these 11 people had one view of it and did that one juror have a different view of
00:23:14it or was he really not following the law?
00:23:18And so, you know, I would have done the same thing as Mr. Reddington and pushed for further inquiry, but
00:23:24ultimately I don't think that the judge made the wrong call.
00:23:27Where do we go from here?
00:23:29This just starts all over?
00:23:31Sure. So the district attorney and I was able to watch a little bit of his press conference before getting
00:23:37on the phone with you guys.
00:23:38He it was interesting to me that he did not immediately commit to a retrial.
00:23:43Now, his tone was very fiery and I do anticipate they will retry.
00:23:48But if this did hang 11 to 1, either for a straight acquittal or not guilty by the reason of
00:23:54insanity, which is what it appears it has.
00:23:57I think that that is a shocking blow to the Commonwealth and they really should evaluate their evidence based off
00:24:03of that verdict.
00:24:05Now, he gives himself some wiggle room there on what maybe they're going to recharge it as.
00:24:13The sentiments that he gave, even though he didn't commit to a retrial, certainly indicate that they are going to
00:24:18retry her for intentional malice acts.
00:24:23I mean, he made comments about, you know, this is a brutal murder.
00:24:27She was in her right mind.
00:24:28And so, you know, Mr. Reddington indicated that he's ready to try it next week and they have an obligation
00:24:36to try her speedily.
00:24:39And so I think they're not going to have as much time to fix their case as they might think.
00:24:44And and they really, I think, should hopefully listen to the comments of the jury if they stick around about
00:24:49maybe they're seeing their case a little too one sided.
00:24:54Does is it true that a second trial or retrial favors the prosecution?
00:25:01You know, there that's there is that sentiment out there.
00:25:04I don't necessarily think it strongly favors either.
00:25:10It gives both sides a chance to correct errors or, you know, move forward with things a little bit differently.
00:25:18Secondly, the state has the benefit of maybe knowing what the playbook for the defense is.
00:25:26But in this case, I don't think it was that much of a secret.
00:25:29Why not just settle?
00:25:30Why not just come together, the Commonwealth and the defense attorney and say, look, no one wants to put the
00:25:35families through this again and come to some agreement for some punishment?
00:25:43So that really is a question for the prosecutor.
00:25:47The prosecutor is in charge of what offers are given.
00:25:50The defense does not dictate that.
00:25:53And so the interview given by District Attorney Cruz shows that their office really has been unwilling to offer anything
00:26:03other than a malice murder charge.
00:26:04Maybe this process shows them that their case isn't nearly as strong as they thought.
00:26:10And and there can be that conversation.
00:26:12Again, when I was on earlier with you, I said, I'm not sure who's who's pushing for a malice murder
00:26:18conviction when the surviving victim's families do seem like they are sympathetic to Lindsay and would be fine with her
00:26:26being placed in a in a mental institution for a plea of NGRI.
00:26:31So those are all things that the state has to reconsider.
00:26:34And, you know, I do think he gave himself a little breathing room by not immediately saying we're going to
00:26:40retry this case.
00:26:52As Minnesota State Fair was bringing food, fun and music to the state this week, a disturbing shooting broke out
00:27:01in its largest city on Wednesday, September 2nd.
00:27:04Here's a WCCO news talk in the Twin Cities reporting on the incident the following day, Thursday, September 3rd.
00:27:15Two civilians are dead and several Minneapolis police officers are hurt after a shooting yesterday afternoon at a Loring Park
00:27:21apartment building.
00:27:22The city says just after 430 p.m., police responded to 911 calls about gunshots at Shoreline Plaza Apartments.
00:27:29That's formerly known as Loring Towers on East Grant Street near Nicollet Avenue.
00:27:33They found multiple people who'd been shot in the lobby and heard more gunfire.
00:27:38Raina Raker says she lives in the building where it happened and was coming out of her apartment when the
00:27:41shooting unfolded.
00:27:42I literally was walking down the stairs as the situation was going on.
00:27:47I heard swearing.
00:27:48I heard cursing.
00:27:49And then I just heard shot, shot, shot, shot.
00:27:52Following the sound to an upper floor, police were met with a haze, which a department spokesman said significantly limited
00:27:58their visibility.
00:27:58That haze caused four officers' adverse effects, but the city didn't share further details.
00:28:04Both police and the suspect fired shots.
00:28:06Three officers were hurt in the shooting.
00:28:08One was undergoing surgery last night, but Governor Tim Wall says all are expected to recover.
00:28:13Mayor Jacob Frye saying the three officers hurt in the shooting likely saved many lives.
00:28:18Two officers were hit by gunfire, one in the leg, the other with two bullets to the abdomen.
00:28:26But for their heroic work, the death toll would have been far higher.
00:28:31In all, HCMC says it took in seven patients.
00:28:34One died.
00:28:34Six are still being treated.
00:28:35Their conditions are unknown.
00:28:37Another person died at the scene.
00:28:39The shooter is also dead.
00:28:40Police are unsure how he died and aren't naming him right now.
00:28:43Two more officers were hurt when their squad car got into a crash while responding to the scene.
00:28:48At least 10 other law enforcement agencies assisted Minneapolis police.
00:28:52The BCA is investigating.
00:28:53Chris Miller, who lives in the building, isn't sure what comes next.
00:28:57Don't know if I have a place to live yet.
00:28:59Don't know if I can get back home yet.
00:29:04Don't know what's going to happen.
00:29:05And here's further reporting from CCO on Thursday.
00:29:09The area around the complex is still very much closed off as the investigation into yesterday's shooting continues,
00:29:15with police confirming six people were injured, including three police officers,
00:29:19and that three people, including the shooter, are dead.
00:29:21This has left people still living here at the complex on edge, with some still waiting to get back inside.
00:29:28I don't talk to nobody, say nothing to nobody in here, but I don't, I, I, to me, I don't
00:29:33feel like it's safe.
00:29:34I heard one person got in through talking to BCA.
00:29:37I just asked, and I guess I'm not able to go, probably around 10.
00:29:40We do know the suspect was in the process of being evicted from Shoreline Plaza.
00:29:45There's still no word on what exactly led up to the shooting or who the victims are.
00:29:49In downtown Minneapolis, I'm Taylor Rivera, News Talk 830, WCCO.
00:29:55Police responded just after 4.30 p.m. to 9-1-1 calls about gunshots at an apartment building on
00:30:00East Grant Street near Nicollet Avenue.
00:30:02Both police and the suspect fired shots at one another on an upper floor.
00:30:06HCMC says it took in seven patients. One died and six are still being treated.
00:30:11Their conditions are unknown. Another person died at the scene.
00:30:14The shooter is also dead, and police haven't said how he died, and they haven't released his identity.
00:30:19Three officers were hurt in the shooting. One was in surgery last night.
00:30:23Governor Tim Walls says all are expected to recover.
00:30:26Two more officers got hurt in a car crash responding to the scene.
00:30:30The Minnesota BCA is investigating.
00:30:32Mark Fry, News Talk 830, WCCO.
00:30:35WCCO provided another update with details from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, or BCA.
00:30:43I'm Laura Oaks.
00:30:45Minnesota BCA Superintendent Drew Evans sharing some new details of yesterday's mass shooting in downtown Minneapolis.
00:30:52Evans says the suspected shooter, 35-year-old Carlton Neal Johnson,
00:30:56first fired his gun on the first floor of the apartment at 15 East Grant Street.
00:31:02The first shooting occurred outside of the building during a custody exchange of a child believed to belong to the
00:31:10suspect in this case with a woman that he had a prior relationship with.
00:31:14He says Johnson then shot someone who works in the building at close range and shot another worker, then went
00:31:21to the ninth floor.
00:31:22That is where they encountered the suspect, and there was an exchange of gunfire at that time.
00:31:28The suspect died and two officers were shot and injured.
00:31:31A third officer was injured unrelated to the exchange of gunfire.
00:31:36Evans says the mother of the child involved in the custody exchange was shot in the leg,
00:31:41and the child was unharmed and removed safely.
00:31:44Again, Evans says the shooter died in the exchange of gunfire with police, all of it captured on surveillance video.
00:31:52Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty, meanwhile, sharing additional information related to the shooting and the shooter's behavior leading to it.
00:31:59In a statement she said on June 25th, police responded to a call about Carlton Johnson displaying a firearm to
00:32:06another person.
00:32:07She said police later learned that Johnson had a legal permit to carry and that he displayed the weapon, but
00:32:13it did not leave his waistband.
00:32:16She said police submitted the case, but it was determined it could not be charged because of insufficient evidence.
00:32:22She went on to say her office did flag the conduct for an extreme risk protection order screening,
00:32:29but found, again, there was not enough evidence to move forward.
00:32:33Susie Jones, Newstalk 830 WCCO.
00:32:35Meanwhile, residents of the building were finally allowed back in just a few hours ago
00:32:40as investigators worked through the night and combed the building for evidence, fatigue, and frustration setting in for many like
00:32:47Anthony White.
00:32:48Minneapolis has to change. We got too much national news and all that.
00:32:53Then, more information was released about the alleged shooter.
00:32:57I'm Mark Fry. We're learning more about the suspect in yesterday's deadly mass shooting in downtown Minneapolis.
00:33:02He's being widely identified as 35-year-old Carlton Johnson II.
00:33:07This individual says he knew Johnson and that he was facing an eviction from the Shoreline Plaza due to numerous
00:33:13reported incidents in the past year,
00:33:15including incidents where Johnson brandished a firearm at apartment staff and residents.
00:33:20He was mad, but he had to think about it because you can't show your gun.
00:33:23He had a gun license, and he just kept showing his gun, like, to people.
00:33:28And then he put his gun on one of the managers there.
00:33:32So he had to go.
00:33:33It was leading up to it, and then he started saying he was going to kill people.
00:33:37Put it on Facebook.
00:33:38But I thought he was playing. He always played like that.
00:33:40Three people, including the suspect, died of the six who were injured.
00:33:43Three were police officers, two of which were shot.
00:33:45Interim Minneapolis Police Chief Bill Peterson.
00:33:47I'm truly sickened by this level of violence.
00:33:50That feeling is tempered only by the courageous actions of the Minneapolis police officers who responded without hesitation.
00:33:57WCCO News Talk's Jason Derusha discussed the shooting from the state fair.
00:34:03We were in our regular fair coverage yesterday when, once again, we're faced with a challenge and a problem as
00:34:12a society.
00:34:15Our landlord's going to be afraid to evict someone now after the mass shooting in downtown Minneapolis.
00:34:23And the new information we learned over the last hour from the BCA is that the beginning incident that started
00:34:31this mass shooting was the shooter shooting the woman who was dropping off his child.
00:34:39And these are stories that we have told far too many times.
00:34:45Custody dispute, domestic violence, usually it's a man who is the problem, and in this case a handgun.
00:34:58In this case, so many warning signs.
00:35:02I think part of the question that we're going to be trying to get to the bottom of over the
00:35:07next days and weeks after, you know, two people killed by this guy before he was killed, two police officers
00:35:18shot.
00:35:19That's the update we're waiting for in the next couple of minutes for the mayor of Minneapolis and the interim
00:35:25police chief.
00:35:27But this guy was threatening people with a gun in his building.
00:35:32It's part of why he was being evicted, according to court record.
00:35:35Now, you have the right for sure to defend yourself, and this guy was defending himself through the legal process.
00:35:42But don't we as a society have an overriding urge to take the guns away from this guy?
00:35:53He had all of the ingredients.
00:35:56Custody dispute, ongoing threats.
00:36:01You know, not just, like, hearsay threats, like, evidence of threats, and that a relatively recent permit to carry that
00:36:09was issued this year, according to the reporting I saw today from the Star Tribune.
00:36:14Just so many things where you say, like, we have all these debates about what we should do to change
00:36:19our gun laws.
00:36:21What about red flag laws?
00:36:23What about this?
00:36:23What about that?
00:36:24In this case, we're talking about a handgun.
00:36:26So, no gun-related law would have addressed this situation.
00:36:33But you did have people who were saying, like, hey, this guy, he's a problem.
00:36:40And he's still got a permit to carry?
00:36:42Like, what was the background check?
00:36:44What was the research?
00:36:46It's so frustrating because we could have, you know, yes, the two people who were killed by this guy in
00:36:52the apartments right near the convention center,
00:36:55right near Loring Park, they were residents.
00:36:58They were residents on the ninth floor, the same floor of his apartment.
00:37:03I don't know.
00:37:04It's an incident like this that, once again, like, are we going to do this once a year?
00:37:11Right?
00:37:11Like, once a year, we're going to have a mass shooting that's going to bring up this whole debate.
00:37:15And everyone's going to go in their corners and make their same old usual arguments.
00:37:21And in this case, was it more of a matter of the system doesn't move quickly enough?
00:37:30Are we too hesitant to take away the guns?
00:37:37Yes.
00:37:38Yes.
00:37:39I think, I don't think, and I'm not proposing that we take away everybody's guns, but here you have a,
00:37:45you just, when you look at the ingredients of what we knew about this guy, it just, to me, it
00:37:52makes no sense.
00:37:53Gun control now.
00:37:54Blame the Republicans.
00:37:56You're right next to you.
00:37:57It's more than just Republicans, though.
00:37:59Yeah.
00:38:00It's a bigger problem than just that.
00:38:01Well, I mean, definitely, in Minnesota, we had Democrat, DFL trifecta control, and they couldn't pass any changes to gun
00:38:10laws either.
00:38:12And I get it.
00:38:13Like, we've made it a situation where any, the NRA has sort of won this debate by saying, if you
00:38:23give an inch, they'll take a mile.
00:38:25And that's become just sort of accepted, accepted belief.
00:38:30And there's some truth to it.
00:38:33Like, I understand why that is the dogma.
00:38:35But I do think, like, we're a country of 50 states.
00:38:42And some states should be doing some experimentation in this area.
00:38:48We are standing by.
00:38:50We're expecting a news conference any minute now.
00:38:55So, we're expecting a news conference any minute now from the Minneapolis police.
00:39:01And so, we're hoping they're going to update the conditions of the officers that were injured yesterday.
00:39:05The actual headlines that we learned today, the actual new information, is we did learn the names of the two
00:39:14who were killed.
00:39:15And think about this.
00:39:16Like, they were two 60-plus-year-old men.
00:39:21A 63-year-old and a 61-year-old.
00:39:23They both lived on the same floor of this 35-year-old Carlton Neal Johnson II.
00:39:30These two officers are still in the hospital.
00:39:34Their condition is described as stable.
00:39:37But we don't know too much about their injuries.
00:39:40But we know that, you know, this stuff, this is the second eviction-related homicide in our community over the
00:39:53last couple months.
00:39:54We had another situation where, in St. Paul, where a guy was being evicted.
00:40:00He was mad that he couldn't break his parking contract.
00:40:04And they wanted him to pay, I don't know, it was like 50 or 60 bucks.
00:40:08It was a tiny amount of money.
00:40:10And instead he went into the leasing office and just executed the three people in the office.
00:40:15We had a mutual friend of ours that was out here yesterday as this was going on that owns or
00:40:21manages some apartment buildings.
00:40:23And talked about his concern in hearing that this was somebody that was being evicted that had turned around and
00:40:29started shooting people.
00:40:30And so I would think anybody that is in that business or in that area and, you know, hears these
00:40:35stories is starting to wonder about how strict they want to be about the rules.
00:40:39Because if this is going to be how it is that people get evicted and lose it and start shooting
00:40:44people, I don't want to be in those shoes.
00:40:46And in this case, we know, we only know from court records that this eviction process was part of his
00:40:53story.
00:40:53But an ongoing custody dispute seems to be maybe the main driver here because we know from other court records.
00:41:02I mean, man, aren't you sick of this, though?
00:41:04Like, oh, of course.
00:41:05Like, of course, this guy had a court record a mile long, record of threats, custody dispute.
00:41:15And somehow this year he was still able to get a permit to carry.
00:41:20And do we need more?
00:41:23Is this something that we could agree on where you say, like, all right, could we say if you have
00:41:28a, you know, restraining order or a custody dispute, you can't get a permit to carry?
00:41:34Or, now, would he have gotten a gun anyway?
00:41:36I don't know, right?
00:41:37Like, we can, what if, or this wouldn't solve that, or what if he did that?
00:41:40We could do it over and over and over.
00:41:42But this case, to me, seemed very potentially preventable.
00:41:50Texter's coming in, and you're welcome to join the conversation, 651-461-9226.
00:41:56As we wait for Minneapolis officials to provide an update on the condition of these officers.
00:42:02Because what heroism there yesterday as well.
00:42:05You know, knowing there's an active shooter situation, and, again, these Minneapolis police officers go running in.
00:42:12They go running in.
00:42:14How much violence and national news does this state need before we understand the city council members have blood on
00:42:20their hands?
00:42:20I do think that, like, we always want to find someone to blame in this situation.
00:42:25And blaming the city council.
00:42:27What, what's, what, what, what could the city council, like, I'm no fan of the DSA wing of the Minneapolis
00:42:36city council.
00:42:37But what could the city council have done that would have made a difference here?
00:42:40We had a court proceeding going on with this guy.
00:42:42We had an eviction proceeding going on.
00:42:46There's all, all of this stuff going on.
00:42:48So I'm just not sure, I'm not sure that there's an obvious political, like, oh, we've got to blame this.
00:42:56We need to put people in prison for making threats with a gun, brandishing, etc.
00:43:00We have red flags now.
00:43:02No one used them here, I guess.
00:43:03Yet he made many threats.
00:43:05Yeah, that was my initial question.
00:43:09Because this seems to me like a hundred percent example where the red flag law should have been triggered.
00:43:18Should have been triggered.
00:43:19And why wasn't it?
00:43:20Well, then the question becomes, does, is the public educated enough in knowing when that's applicable and how to go
00:43:26about getting it applied?
00:43:28Because I'm not, you know, I'm just being honest.
00:43:30I'm not sure.
00:43:30I don't know either.
00:43:31I mean, you know, we could look it up and probably figure it out relatively quickly.
00:43:34But not everybody has that, that necessarily that advantage to them.
00:43:37All right, we are live at the State Fair.
00:43:41Got lots of fun show planned for you today.
00:43:44But we're starting with a serious topic for sure as we're standing by for City of Minneapolis officials to give
00:43:51us an update on those two police officers who were shot.
00:43:55We know that three officers were injured yesterday.
00:43:58One was caught up in some sort of smoke or haze.
00:44:02This in a shooting where we know a guy killed two people and then unleashed on others, including two police
00:44:13officers.
00:44:13So that's that's what we know over the last hour or so.
00:44:20We learned that the people who were killed in the building were neighbors of his on the ninth floor.
00:44:28The State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said we don't know for sure if the people who were shot were targeted.
00:44:39So the way this all went down, if you're just joining and just sort of plugging back into what's going
00:44:44on is the State Bureau of Criminal Apprehension says that this guy went to do like a child like he
00:44:52has a four year old child.
00:44:53There was like a custody exchange outside the building and he shoots the woman at this point.
00:45:00I don't think the BCA clarified if the woman was just supervising the child or if it was the mother
00:45:06of the child or what the relationship was.
00:45:08But she was shot.
00:45:11The child ran and the child is OK.
00:45:15Then he goes in the building, shoots two people who work for the building, goes up to the ninth floor,
00:45:21shoots and kills two neighbors.
00:45:24And then police get up there, climb up the stairs.
00:45:27Think of the courage of these police officers, right?
00:45:29You know, you have an active shooting situation going down.
00:45:33These officers climb up the stairs to the ninth floor because you don't want to I mean, you imagine like
00:45:39that moment when the elevator door opens and this guy is maybe standing there.
00:45:43So they come up the stairs and they are both shot.
00:45:47There were multiple officers who came up, at least three.
00:45:49But then the gunfire exchange and we don't know did at this point, I don't think it was clear as
00:45:57to who killed the guy, the shooter in this case.
00:46:03Did the officers shoot and kill him?
00:46:07Did he shoot himself?
00:46:09All we know is he died in the exchange of gunfire with Minneapolis police officers.
00:46:14They have surveillance video of everything because there was surveillance cameras on every floor of this building.
00:46:20So that's the latest as far as what is happening.
00:46:23But Mayor Minneapolis and the interim police chief were supposed to start a news conference around three o'clock.
00:46:31And at this point, hasn't started yet.
00:46:34Oh, we're I'm being told that police.
00:46:37Well, we know that police shot him.
00:46:40So.
00:46:42That's that's the update from our newsroom saying that the medical examiner because there are multiple speculative reports last night
00:46:49that he had killed himself.
00:46:50So that's an interesting detail to get confirmed by police.
00:46:53Yeah, I mean, but because they shot him, we, you know, did that shoot?
00:47:00Did that is that the bullet that killed him?
00:47:02I guess would be the question.
00:47:03But our newsroom is saying it was confirmed by the medical examiner that police shot him.
00:47:08So that's sort of where we're at.
00:47:10What the official BCA statement was over the last hour is that he died in an exchange of gunfire.
00:47:16So the BCA wasn't that specific about how that all went down.
00:47:20Ultimately, like, I don't really care.
00:47:22It doesn't really matter to me how that went down.
00:47:27Obviously, when you do an investigation, that's part of what you do is trying to figure out exactly what happened.
00:47:32But at this point, you know, we just don't have anything from from the city of Minneapolis yet.
00:47:41So we're standing by for that.
00:47:43Yeah, lots of texts coming in at 651-461-9226.
00:47:47And I do think this is maybe, you know, this is the part of the story that we we often
00:47:51don't talk about enough.
00:47:52And that is the risk involved with out of control men in sort of these domestic violence relationships with women.
00:48:05Because that's what precipitated this.
00:48:07And the text was saying, how many stories do we see of women who file restraining orders or alert police
00:48:11to threats?
00:48:13To their lives to only end up dead.
00:48:14We need an interception point for people who are clear threats.
00:48:20Does anyone really think, like, we do enough to protect women who are in a bad place with a guy?
00:48:27I certainly don't.
00:48:30And to think that in this case, we had a custody situation where the latest reporting that I saw is
00:48:37that his daughter was his child was taken away from him and was in the custody of the county for
00:48:46a while.
00:48:47So that is that is I don't know.
00:48:52I think that's a fair question to say when we have these gun conversations, we tend to focus on the
00:48:59the type of weapon that we're going to allow or the number of rounds that we're going to allow.
00:49:04But the reality is, you know, on a deeper level, we're leaving, especially women, in very dangerous situations and without
00:49:16a without a clear way for them to be taken care of.
00:49:20Lots of lots of attacks coming in.
00:49:23And it's obviously all the more complicated when there's a child involved, right?
00:49:26Because you hear all the time in situations where there's domestic threats.
00:49:30Well, why don't they just leave?
00:49:31Yeah.
00:49:31Well, there's a child involved.
00:49:33It's not always that simple.
00:49:34It's not always that simple.
00:49:35And so is there a way that we as a society, as a culture, can do better, need to do
00:49:40better in providing them safe spaces where, you know, the needs of the child are also looked after?
00:49:46But, you know, there's safety provided to a woman in a situation that's clearly dangerous.
00:49:50I mean, I just think about the timeline here that he was served with an eviction notice on June 16th.
00:49:57On June 25th, he was accused of threatening a resident with his firearm.
00:50:02On August 3rd, his attorney said, no, he never, you know, he didn't.
00:50:08He didn't do it.
00:50:09And so we've just been waiting for that case to work its way through.
00:50:13In the meantime, this guy's got a gun, got a handgun.
00:50:15And legally had that handgun.
00:50:17You think, like, I don't know, man.
00:50:18Like, to me, we have to do better then.
00:50:22We have to do better.
00:50:26Texter, does the system take care of men when it comes to custody, battle, and financial divorce settlements?
00:50:30And you wonder why they get pissed off and get violent.
00:50:33I mean, that's an absolutely ridiculous comment.
00:50:37Is the custody situation in this country fair?
00:50:45Well, if it's not fair, like, letting that escalate and fester, getting a gun and shooting someone, no, that's not,
00:50:53that's not a, that's not the logical end of that scenario.
00:50:58It just isn't.
00:51:00It just isn't.
00:51:02My sister is a domestic violence subject expert, says a texter.
00:51:07She works for the United Nations fighting domestic violence.
00:51:10She says women are at most risk when the restraining order is filed or when they leave the house.
00:51:14I think that's 100% true.
00:51:17And so I would like to hear that as part of the discussion over what we do with gun laws
00:51:23in this country.
00:51:24Because it's not as simple as saying we should restrict this gun or we should provide this mental health support.
00:51:29How many homicides, how many shootings could we prevent if we could do something better about domestic violence?
00:51:36And don't both sides this, like, oh, guys get screwed too.
00:51:41Men are the ones who are taking the guns and shooting because they're pissed off about a situation.
00:51:47It is very rare that a woman is the one who does that.
00:51:50So let's deal with the lethal risk first.
00:51:53And yeah, then if we want to have a debate about, like, is the divorce system or the child custody
00:51:58system fair, we can have that debate.
00:52:00But I'm not that concerned about it.
00:52:04I'm concerned about people being killed and I'm concerned about our law enforcement officers having to rush in.
00:52:10Which, again, you look at this scenario and say, these cops, what they did yesterday.
00:52:18I mean, it is.
00:52:19We've seen scenarios where officers sit there and you think of Uvalde.
00:52:25Where officers were, like, waiting and waiting for the right moment and waiting for backup.
00:52:30In this case, these cops didn't wait.
00:52:31They ran up the stairs because somebody was shooting.
00:52:34And two of them are in the hospital right now.
00:52:36I mean, it's important to remember that as well.
00:52:38We'll get an update on their condition or maybe we won't.
00:52:43That's sort of what happens when you stand by for a news conference for the city.
00:52:49Are we doing enough to make sure incidents like the one that happened at Shoreline Plaza don't happen again?
00:52:56After the recent tragedy, people are asking questions.
00:53:01Meanwhile, a lot of people questioning why there was no extreme risk protection order against Johnson,
00:53:08which could have temporarily barred him from having a gun in the first place.
00:53:13Johnson obtained a permit to carry a firearm from Hennepin County in June of this year.
00:53:17Despite his known criminal history, documented reports of threatening behavior toward neighbors and other instances of erratic behavior.
00:53:25Executive Director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association, Jeff Potts,
00:53:29says identifying people who may be at risk of violent behavior is very challenging.
00:53:34That requires law enforcement to have relationships in the community.
00:53:37It requires a community to step up and help law enforcement or social services identify people who they think may
00:53:44be potentially in a position
00:53:46where their mental condition is such that they could do something like this.
00:53:49Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty has expressed support for the state's red flag laws,
00:53:54saying they're a powerful tool if people know what they are and how to access them.
00:53:59Laura Oaks, News Talk 830, WCCO.
00:54:02To end our show, we have coverage of the shooting from the Adam and Jordana Show, also out of WCCO
00:54:10News and Talk.
00:54:12Another awful, awful event happening in Minneapolis where we have this mass shooting in an apartment complex.
00:54:18Three people dead, including the shooter.
00:54:21Three officers injured.
00:54:23Two who were shot.
00:54:24Thankfully, the good news in all that is those officers are going to be okay.
00:54:27But I had no idea.
00:54:29I was at volleyball last night, Jor, when I saw your text and something about Minneapolis.
00:54:34And I immediately logged on to the news and was just heartbroken to see another just awful, awful story.
00:54:41For me, I was actually at home and I live downtown now.
00:54:44So my daughter and I, all of a sudden the sirens exploded because we live not far from HCMC.
00:54:50And HCMC is where all of the high-level trauma victims and all of the gunshot victims were taken.
00:54:56And we heard the sound of the siren.
00:54:58She goes, Mom, what's going on?
00:54:59I said, okay, let's find out.
00:55:00And we did some digging.
00:55:01And her dad works at HCMC, so he was keeping us updated.
00:55:06And then I turned on WCCO radio and I was listening to Steve Simpson and Susie Jones' great coverage, by
00:55:12the way.
00:55:13And here's what I thought.
00:55:14But I thought, not again, because two years ago, just a week ago, two years and a week, Adam and
00:55:22I were out here when the Annunciation shooting happened.
00:55:25We obviously blew up our show.
00:55:28It happened like at 8.45 in the morning.
00:55:30By 9 a.m. we went on.
00:55:32And we were covering once again a mass shooting in Minneapolis.
00:55:37And yesterday, I turned on the news, or I turned on CCO radio when I was at home, and I'm
00:55:43listening to Jason at the state fair.
00:55:45You could hear the fair noises behind him.
00:55:48And Jason Derusha is sitting up here just like we were.
00:55:51And I was thinking how hard that is for Jason.
00:55:53It's hard to be at the fair and cover breaking news, especially something as tragic as a mass shooting and
00:55:59possibly officers down, which is absolutely devastating.
00:56:03And I thought, here we are again.
00:56:06I cannot believe this is happening, was my first thought.
00:56:10But then, of course, this is happening, because nothing changed after Annunciation.
00:56:16And we still have a gun problem in this country.
00:56:19We still have a mental illness problem in this country.
00:56:22We still have red flag laws that aren't used enough.
00:56:26We still have people that don't intervene or get help for themselves.
00:56:30And everybody is vulnerable.
00:56:33Yeah, my takeaway, and again, each, sadly, it happens so often, and each situation, of course, is different.
00:56:40And there's still, obviously, a lot to know about what happened yesterday and what led to it.
00:56:45But all the reporting I've read was that this individual who committed this shooting, there were red flags about this
00:56:52guy.
00:56:52Yes.
00:56:53He was a menace at this apartment building he was living at.
00:56:56He was harassing neighbors.
00:56:59He showed his gun often.
00:57:01And my question at the top of my head is, how in the hell does a guy like this, who
00:57:06clearly is a violent person, who clearly is not right, how does he continue?
00:57:11And he was evicted from there in June.
00:57:14Yes.
00:57:14And I don't know what kind of process that was underway to get him out.
00:57:18But my question is, at what point does somebody commit crimes like that or harass neighbors like that?
00:57:25Is that person actually arrested and taken into custody?
00:57:29And he wasn't.
00:57:30He was roaming the streets with a permit to carry.
00:57:33Apparently, yes.
00:57:34Yes, that is a huge problem.
00:57:37And I was also listening because, you know, it's funny.
00:57:40I live downtown now, and I looked at apartments in that area.
00:57:43It's not, you know, it's a mixed area.
00:57:45But there are some lovely condos and lovely apartments there.
00:57:49I live, you know, less than a mile away right now, which is what we decided on.
00:57:53But I was listening to some of the residents of the building, and a reporter asked one of the residents,
00:58:00they were downstairs being evacuated, do you feel safe going back in the building and going to sleep tonight?
00:58:06He said, I never feel safe in this building.
00:58:09He said, we have been asking for better security in this building, but, you know, there is some low-income
00:58:16housing there, and, you know, housing is hard to come by in Minneapolis.
00:58:19And he said, we knew this was just a powder keg, like something was going to happen, and he never
00:58:26felt safe.
00:58:27And my heart just went out to him thinking, it must be so challenging to go to bed or to
00:58:36walk into where you live, your home, every day and not feel safe.
00:58:41And I just feel so bad for the people of that neighborhood and certainly of that building.
00:58:47And I believe that person, but I also was reading another article about the story, and they had talked to
00:58:54a nearby restaurant owner who said that building had recently gone under new ownership
00:58:58and that the new owners of that building actually had been doing a better job of cleaning things up, and
00:59:02I think that person used getting the riffraff out.
00:59:05But, again, it's just another case where we're going to have to look into the texture here.
00:59:13Adam, the shooter wasn't violent, scary but not violent.
00:59:16Well, if you're threatening somebody and you show you have a gun.
00:59:21And saying he's going to kill somebody in his life.
00:59:24I characterize that as violent, but, I mean, point taken in that, at what point can a person be taken
00:59:31into custody?
00:59:31And, again, we're going to have to get to those answers.
00:59:35We're going to have to ask those questions, get those answers from authorities as to why a person like this,
00:59:40who clearly exhibited tendencies that, in my opinion, were violent,
00:59:45how a person like that was, I guess, not at some point intervened with either by authorities or somebody else.
00:59:52Again, these are all questions that are going to have to come up and be answered.
00:59:56But certainly the best news out of it are these officers who were injured
01:00:00and the other people who were injured who are hopefully going to make a full recovery.
01:00:04Our hearts go out to the two people who were murdered yesterday in that apartment shooting,
01:00:10and we'll have a lot more questions, hopefully, that will get answered.
01:00:14All right.
01:00:16Adam Carter and Jordana Green also had veteran journalist Eric Escola on their show this week,
01:00:23and they discussed the Shoreline Plaza shooting.
01:00:27Last night, when everything went down with the shooting, I was in my apartment downtown,
01:00:31and I said to my daughter, who's grown now, I said, I feel like I should go down there.
01:00:35And she looks at me, she goes, are you insane?
01:00:37And I was like, well, I mean, it's breaking news.
01:00:39And she's like, Mom, but we had quality reporters on site.
01:00:42We had Steve Simon.
01:00:43But it's that instinct, like you want to be where the news is.
01:00:47And I talked myself off that ledge, but I don't think that instinct ever goes away.
01:00:50It certainly doesn't with you.
01:00:52I'm three blocks from that intersection where I live in Loring Park.
01:00:55Oh, you do?
01:00:56And I just crossed that intersection Tuesday.
01:01:00So, yeah.
01:01:01It's close, yeah.
01:01:02Were you home at the time of the shooting?
01:01:04I was.
01:01:04So you experienced all of this last night?
01:01:06Oh, yeah.
01:01:08I don't know if it was a police helicopter.
01:01:10Chopper.
01:01:11Or if it was Channel 5 or 11.
01:01:14Yeah.
01:01:15Or 4, whatever.
01:01:17Tough.
01:01:17But, and one of the, and I didn't get the guy's name, but one of the CARE 11 reporters made
01:01:22a very good statement
01:01:23that I think probably should be repeated.
01:01:27At the time of these incidents, half of what you hear reported is probably inaccurate.
01:01:33Yep.
01:01:34And it isn't because they're trying to be inaccurate.
01:01:37It's that they're filling time.
01:01:39Audience is changing over.
01:01:41People are just coming on board.
01:01:42You want to keep the live coverage going, but you may be having to tap dance for a while.
01:01:47Sure, sure.
01:01:48And we all know what that means to do.
01:01:52Thank you so much for listening to this True Crime Roundup from the On Deadline podcast.
01:01:58This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Berry.
01:02:03Special thanks to KNX News in Los Angeles, the Annie Fry Show out of KFTK in St. Louis,
01:02:11the Dave Glover Show out of KMOX in St. Louis, a new morning out of WBEN in Buffalo,
01:02:19the Dana and Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, and WCCO News and Talk in the Twin Cities,
01:02:27including Jason DeRussia and the Adam and Jordana Show.
01:02:31You can find these programs on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your podcasts.
01:02:37You can find these True Crime Roundups by subscribing to the On Deadline podcast,
01:02:43the Who Killed Strawberry podcast, or the Bitter Academia podcast,
01:02:48on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:03:07.
01:03:09.
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