00:01I think I knew when you put a sauna down there that that would be a good, there's a few
00:06good anchor points to pull people to a show and I don't think the gallery quite was aware of how
00:12sauna people were. So that's been a whole ecology. And you had all the other ones together, people who come
00:17for play, people who are curious about artwork. And I think one of the most significant things that we didn't
00:23expect was allowing people to bring their own food.
00:25Yeah, it's the setup. People are just bringing whole packed lunches and yeah, just like providing tables as this environment
00:35to to sit up and then you could be there to observe up. Yeah, on the side.
00:41Mike, it's such a wildly ambitious concept because I think it's one thing to think, OK, I'm going to build
00:46this playground. But you know what it needs? It needs a sauna and a steam room. It needs some palm
00:51trees. It needs a DJ booth. It needs all of these things.
00:54How did you sort of come up with the idea behind it and and be so ambitious with this?
01:01Well, I think that the gallery approached me because I've done a number of quite ambitious playgrounds because I saw
01:08them as an opportunity to make sculpture with a funding mechanism of infrastructure.
01:13But for this one, I wanted to expand what a playground is because there's so many people who get dragged
01:18to playgrounds.
01:18And what about them? And then what about all the other generations alongside of that?
01:23So it was really turning it into a park. And so I thought about all the other things like the
01:28playground is actually only 10 percent of the footprint, but the whole park can operate in many different ways.
01:36And I thought that was a more interesting way to expand, you know, the intergenerational aspect of parks is like
01:43collapsing all these different age groups together.
01:46We just saw some vision of it coming together. You're big on sort of salvaging a lot of the materials,
01:52aren't you?
01:52Yeah. Yeah. So the tanks is like a, you know, historic oil tank from the 1940s. And I wanted to
02:00kind of match its energy. It's got the age and patina of life.
02:03And also, I think, you know, recycled materials have a lot of interesting quirks that, you know, give them another
02:10chance.
02:11And the concept behind not just this playground of yours, but other works of yours is kind of to introduce
02:16an element of risk to play for children,
02:20for them to kind of have a space where they can test their limits. Why do you think that's important
02:25for kids?
02:26Well, it's a responsibility to provide an engaging environment. And a lot of that is, yeah, sort of so they
02:33can expand their, like, cognitive abilities.
02:36And you need novel, challenging, complex environments. We also need it as grown ups.
02:42Like, it's very important that we have interesting spaces to challenge us.
02:48I think it was also amazing in the way that it opened up a gallery space that is often sterile
02:54or you're not allowed to touch things.
02:57You've got to be very quiet. But in this space, you're given the permission to touch anything, to do whatever
03:03you want, to play kind of thing.
03:05And it makes it accessible to a wider variety of people, brings art to them.
03:10Yeah, I think it's a new experience to be out of touch. And that is the impulse that you get
03:18often when you see.
03:18I mean, as an artist, you go to an art show and you definitely want to, you know, like it's
03:23so allowing that step.
03:24And that's not for everything, but it's interesting to kind of allow and be permissive.
03:30And then I think that's what, you know, that's what the title of the show is, the keys under the
03:33mat.
03:34It's like, we trust that you'll be responsible enough or that we're also prepared for your healthy amount of disrespect.
03:41Yeah.
03:42We've made the thing tough so you can just, you know, you can just chill.
03:45Have at it.
03:46Yeah. And that's, I think that's what's been so disarming about the show is that it does, it is very
03:51permissive.
03:52And it doesn't require something of you. There's no ticketed lines or the sort of formal arrangement.
03:57People just self-organised because the space is sort of, yeah, we carefully designed it in a way that they
04:04interact.
04:05It's interesting you say that because the first time, the first time I went, the thing I thought was,
04:10how did he get all of this over the line to have a barbecue in the middle of the space
04:14and a sauna room?
04:15Did you come up against a bit of red tape?
04:19Yeah. I mean, I guess that, you know, this is a, you know, an amazing opportunity for an artist to
04:24kind of go up to the scale.
04:26And I think I felt it was a responsible thing to do to like pull in as much as you
04:31can.
04:31And the gallery wanted that because they wanted to be doing an engaging thing for the public.
04:38And that's the job of the artist to kind of go all the way.
04:41And they went all the way with me.
04:43And, you know, it's such an amazing thing to have rounded off with such a huge response across so many
04:50different age groups.
04:51People who have never been to the gallery before come back weekly, sometimes daily.
04:56What's been the response from the public, from kids, from adults?
05:01Oh, it's been, you know, I mean, the fact that people want to come back is a big thing.
05:05But I think a lot of people have found it a kind of home.
05:08It's been a significant part of it.
05:09It's been an amazing part of my relationship over the last year.
05:12I've heard someone say to their kid, like, where would we be without this park this year?
05:18Like, it's been a really transformative thing for a lot of people.
05:23And it's a, like, and it's a serious artwork.
05:26So if you can do both, that's great.
05:29What's happening to all the playground and all the materials?
05:32Because as we said, you're into salvaging and sort of repurposing.
05:36What's your next project that you're working on?
05:38Well, it is a big thing to try and find the next stage for that.
05:42But we've fought very hard that all of the materials that produce the show can live another longer life.
05:47So we prepared, you know, say for the concrete, we've got fibre mesh reinforcing.
05:51So it might crack taking it out, but it won't rust.
05:55And so it can live a long life.
05:57And so all of the materials have been done and put in there in a way that we can find
06:01them another life.
06:02They have good bones.
06:03Yeah.
06:03So you can adapt them.
06:04They might not be the same artwork later, but they absolutely will have the ability to transform.
06:11Live another life.
06:12Yeah.
06:12Mike Hewson, thank you so much and congratulations again.
06:15Thank you so much.
06:15All the best with the projects ahead.
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