Skip to playerSkip to main content
Nit Wit 2
  • 2 days ago

Category

📺
TV
Transcript
00:06Dragon's Den is open for business I don't often say this but your pitch was awful
00:12you've got to be quiet for this little bit Peter if that's all right ouch a place where budding
00:17entrepreneurs are given a once-in-a-lifetime chance you have this most bizarre way of answering
00:27questions to present their wares to five captains of commerce you wanted to see how incredible we
00:33are so I'm about to show you show me some will succeed and go on to make millions others will
00:43fail and leave with nothing making the counter for tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine
00:47with the occasional visit from some wealthy VIPs I can't not give you money I can't not make you
00:55an offer first deal in the day I didn't want it anyway the hunt is on to find the next
01:02big money
01:03making idea dragons are going tonight it's the first time we've had somebody valuing their business at
01:11a hundred pounds it's for your own good but this is an investment for the future don't it's an
01:17investment for today for me the kind of secret sauce is when someone can show you there is this
01:23problem and I've got that solution have I just broken it can you do me a favor could you come
01:28to the wall with me we've got the wall we're gonna go to the wall I'm really hoping I'm not
01:40going to
01:40forget my peach you won't forget your peach and I do I'm Tim Binnington I'm Danny Binnington and we
01:48have totally revolutionized the hair and scalp market with a wonderful product that's going to
01:54benefit so many people all right so I'm having a deja vu moment because I remember there was a product
02:02that came into the den that I said looked exactly like a horse grooming product last time I didn't
02:07invest and it went on to do really really well yeah that did really well didn't it we've come a
02:14really long way and we've gone on a real journey with this but it's super exciting to pitch our
02:18product to the dragons today you keep saying enjoy yourself now oh come on it's gonna be fun
02:33hello dragons I'm Tim Binnington and I'm Danny Binnington hi and we're here to ask you for two
02:38hundred and forty thousand pounds for four percent of our company Manta healthy hairbrush is specifically
02:46designed to minimize hair breakage and hair loss normal hairbrushes you would grip like this or have a
02:52handle like this and pull through the hair and that gives unnecessary tension and breakage on the
02:56hair Manta the patented technology means you put your hand in it like a glove and you can flex it
03:03and
03:03that flexibility means you can shampoo you can apply treatments detangle and style and you can even blow
03:10dry this is the Manta pulse which delivers two thousand four thousand pulsations per minute and has
03:18revolutionized the shampoo and head massage experience but the real reason I invented it
03:23was my one lovely wife Danny it was when my hair grew back after chemotherapy that I had lots of
03:28problems with my scalp and my hair most normal hairbrushes felt too harsh on my scalp and Tim had
03:34been a hairdresser for over 25 year at that point already so I said to Tim I'm just gonna stop
03:38using all
03:39of my hair brushes and I'm just gonna run my fingers through my hair in fact I said I just
03:43want bristles
03:44on my fingers and that was it we still joke about it I've lost him to our fourth baby the
03:49Manta hairbrush
03:50it's taking him forever five years to design invent and finally launch and it's taking me all those five
03:56years to regain my strength and come back to better health yeah and that's in our pitch can we just
04:02demonstrate how it works yeah like it a new take on the hairbrush with a flexible base and bristles is
04:12the
04:12offering from Tim and Danny Binnington so what we're doing is we've got a little bit of shampoo
04:18there now normally you put loads more than that you turn it on and then you just stimulate the scalp
04:25now what that's doing is 4,000 pulsations are going through to the scalp exfoliating the scalp and
04:31getting blood and oxygen to the root Tim and Danny is seeking a whopping 240,000 pounds in return for
04:39just 4% of their business
04:41but when we go back to basics I hold the Manta like this and what it does is it shapes
04:46to the mold of my hand but when you start
04:49detangling because every hairbrush detangles we make sure that you can fold the Manta and you work it round with
04:55your Manta detangling technique and what happens is you will know if there are tangles
05:01And you will ease off naturally until you start gliding the manta through your hair and detangling normally and
05:07The memory of a money-making opportunity that got away. Thank you so much ladies. Thank you. Thank you
05:14Has guaranteed the couple Peter Jones's full attention
05:22Tim Danny hi hi there was a pitch that came into the den a tangle teaser
05:28Yep, and we we we didn't invest and it's gone on to do quite. Well
05:33Mm-hmm, so I'm gonna give you a little bit more consideration today
05:35So I don't make the same mistake and get completely killed by my daughters for not investing in something great.
05:41Yeah
05:42But is this not the same here at this point?
05:45Tangle teaser does this doesn't it? Yeah, it's this that's it's a really good. So ultimately are you not just
05:50it's just how you
05:51Hold or apply is that not tangles? It's a really good point
05:55No other brush can do this that means you can focus on what you're doing you can control if you
06:00feel a knot you just ease off
06:02Lots of other hair brushes. They're a single shot mold product
06:05Which means the base is fixed and the bristles bent so what you're hoping when you pull it through is
06:10the bristles will give and not break your hair
06:13So just the last 12 months what have you how successful has this been last 12 months just over a
06:19million?
06:20Turnover
06:21Okay, what did you make on that 1 million? Well on that 1 million make about 70,000 net profit
06:27Right, so how much money have you put into to this thing? I've invested personally well we've invested personally Wow
06:34600,000 pounds
06:39Wow
06:41600k
06:44Give me the breakdown of that 600 where is that money gone?
06:47Oh, that's a lot of that's we've got about
06:49Scott five five hundred or something in stock
06:52We've also decided to have patterns as in as many markets as possible. They were really quite expensive
07:02Hi guys, um you've come in here with a very very
07:07Juicy valuation which in real terms is
07:12Doesn't make sense. So how did you get to that six million figure this was my own personal view of
07:19what?
07:19I think the company is worth now it is a I reckon we'll be doing a 200,000 pound profit
07:25this year and we're gonna grow from that
07:26So that's a 30 times multiple on that, but I've been beautiful
07:30Yeah, it is beautiful. I'd love to know a business that gets that
07:35But this is an investment for the future. No, it's not it's an investment for today
07:40No, so we're just trying to get to the bottom. No, I understand what is really happening here on this
07:44valuation
07:44It just but it's it's well currently we haven't ever thought about getting investment because we were growing and the
07:50fact is we're in 30 countries now
07:52America's a very big market for us on QVC
07:55We've recently launched in Japan China. We've just launched in so the demand is getting bigger and bigger
08:03So it's really difficult because you're great the products great and also we turn down tangle tees
08:14To regret it
08:17There's something holding me there
08:21But we're looking at a very high valuation and actually it's okay to come in here and overvalue a business
08:27and expect to negotiate a bit
08:29But it's kind of got to be within reason otherwise it all looks a bit
08:33We're not really in touch with what's going on in the real world out there. I'm trust me
08:37We're in touch with what's going on in the real world out there
08:42So I'm really sorry guys. I won't be a best thing I'm out
08:48Um, I I think you know because there's been a product in the den before that was tremendously successful
08:54I think sometimes it's maybe a little bit easy to get caught up in how that story played out
09:00I'm not entirely convinced that this is a real real innovation
09:05So I'm gonna say that I'm out but I wish you the very very best
09:09Thank you
09:13So Tim and Danny
09:15You've done all of the right things getting your patents doing all of your IP
09:19But the thing is when you come into here and you look at a valuation of a business, you know
09:24You're making 70k and even if you gave
09:2710 times 15 times profit you'd still be valuing your business
09:32Very differently to how you are valuing your business today, and you've asked for a large chunk of cash
09:36Hmm
09:38however
09:40I like it enough to make you an offer today
09:46So I'm gonna offer you all of the money 240,000
09:50But I want to be an equal partner with you
09:54I want to be a third partner so the three of us go on that journey together
10:00Thank you
10:03You know what guys I am massive into my hair
10:07I'm not even 40 yet now. I've already got problems with thinning hair
10:11And if you can tackle that problem absolutely would I be valuing my business at six million
10:17However
10:18You're like a headless chicken bless you
10:21You're pursuing all these different markets all these different channels and that's the thing that's setting alarm bells for me
10:26Because it tells me that you've got this fantastic product
10:30But you don't have the commercial mouse to be able to go and make it into a business that's worth
10:36six million today
10:37So all that considered I think a fair valuation is around the million mark
10:44So I would offer you all of the money all to 240,000 in return for 24% of the
10:50business
10:51Thank you
10:57Look I like the product and I love both of you. I mean you're great
11:03But if i'm going to invest what's my exit?
11:07Well, i'm hoping let's say five years time
11:10That's when I want to scale the business up and on the trajectory we had even without five years time.
11:16Yeah, I don't know
11:16You know how old i'm going to be in five years time. You'll be 50
11:2075 75 in five years time. Okay
11:24I'm not as young as these youngsters to my left
11:28So i'm asking myself how do I get out of this?
11:32And maybe what it needs is a royalty so that way it gives me the incentive to ramp up the
11:38business
11:40So give you all of the money that's 240 000
11:44For a third of the business, but I want a royalty at two pounds of product when I get my
11:49money back. I drop down to 20%
11:54Okay
11:56Can we take a moment? Yeah, please talk to the wall or the brush
12:01Tim and danny now have three competing offers to consider. I think it's a clever deal a royalty bit
12:09But peter jones sarah davies and tuka suleyman are all demanding considerably more equity than the 4%
12:18The couple were originally looking to give away
12:22So
12:27Thank you so much everyone uh you've been so insightful and honest
12:32But we're gonna we know we're gonna respectfully decline the offers
12:40Um
12:42Do you want to come back with a counter?
12:45Well, no because our counter offer the only thing I thought we could have gone was five percent for 250
12:51right right?
12:54Ouch
12:55But it would have insulted you so I I I didn't want to do that look good luck to you
13:00Good luck
13:00Good luck wonderful. Thank you so much. Cheers all the best all the best
13:07No deal for tim and danny who have effectively given the dragons the brush off
13:14I
13:15Don't think we could have done it for what it was so
13:18No, it would have never and we were we're on a trajectory already to do well
13:22That's crazy you saw it in his eyes
13:26He is convinced he's got the next he's obsessed total innovation and hair
13:31I think he genuinely thinks it's worth
13:34Everything he says turning down the offers from the dragons we realized that the mantra is bigger than us
13:43It's it's it's infinite to give that much of the business away. It would have been detrimental to our growth
14:01Hi, i'm victor carpio i'm 29 years old i was born in argentina but i live in hampshire
14:07And i never knew that rescuing a cat was going to turn my life around
14:13So that is a cat teeth cleaning toy
14:17It's fishing rod cat bait
14:20My cats wouldn't fall for that. Do you think that white cat looks happy? No, he's having a gnaw
14:27Cats are quite fussy and looking after my cat Lilo was a joy until I had to
14:34Get close to his mouth
14:38That was an experience that left me a little bit bloody
14:50Hi i'm victor carpio i'm founder and director of inventor limited i'm here today to ask for 45 000 pounds
14:58for 10 of my company
15:00We cat parents all have a self-proclaimed title of best cat parent and that prestigious title got destroyed
15:08By a fragile leaflet that i saw at the vets it read have you ever tried to brush your cat's
15:13teeth
15:13I felt awful because i've never tried to do that and my cat was already five years old
15:18So i immediately bought a cat toothbrush got back home tried to brush his teeth and it was awful
15:23My cat was screaming i was crying
15:26It's for your own good no cleaning was done and frustration stained the room
15:31So i hated that experience and because of that i embarked on this journey because i believe there is a
15:37better way
15:38So through 30 months of research development and testing of various prototypes our dental wand was ready
15:45Dental wand is a one toy specifically designed to brush your cat's teeth
15:50It engages on your cat's instinctual behaviors to hunt and applies them to express the desired behaviors that we want
15:58which is brushing of the teeth
16:01We began trading at the end of february this year we have sold 133 units so far
16:06And we have interest from large companies such as pets at home to work with them on their dtc offering
16:13There is huge demand for a solution like the dental wand and i believe that with the dragon's help
16:18we can make brushing enjoyable for the cats and the owners thank you
16:24A device for cleaning moggy's molars as well as all their other teeth is the proposition from inventor and cat
16:31parent victor carpio
16:33There you go thank you no worries victor is seeking 45 000 pounds for a 10 percent share in his
16:40business
16:43You reminded me of my cat leela
16:45But will this toothbrush for tabbies have stephen bartlett purring with delight or showing his claws
16:57So victor can i can i just check something yeah so i don't have a cat
17:01i'm trying to figure out why you need this long thing here and not just this if this is inherently
17:06compete um tasty and compelling to my cat
17:09so the reason you need the rod is because that's how you're going to reenact the movements of prey
17:15and that will engage your cat to go through the predatory sequence the predatory sequence is of
17:20observing stalking pouncing chasing and biting and when they bite the dental wand
17:27that's when the enzymatic cap toothpaste will be expelled
17:32if you look if the cat was there you'd think it would chase it it will chase that if you
17:35do that
17:35then it'll catch it it will catch it exactly and then grab it and then bite on the
17:40the corn on the car how do you know how do you know about on the corner of the club
17:43dental thing
17:43and not the green because it just wants to
17:45hunt and yeah but why not the green thing well then it'll realize that it's a toothbrush
17:50oh so okay so you can use both to be honest so we've had uh sorry to interrupt you there
17:55i'm
17:55thank you for helping me explain um you can use the the worm to attach catnip to it which will
18:02make
18:02the cat chase it bite it and uh do what you want it to do have i just broken it
18:10i don't know what happened um oh okay yeah i believe so i'm sorry that must have just been
18:17a 41. i'm sorry about that i won't give it back i'll just keep it here it's fine sorry no
18:21worries
18:26so can i ask i have got cats i've had cats all my life i've got i've got a scratch
18:32here from trying
18:33to worm the cat let alone clean their teeth so i really think it's neat thank you so can i
18:39ask how
18:40much they sell for 24.99 and um how much are they costing you to make eight pounds 89 and
18:48what do the
18:49alternatives to the actual tooth cleaner cost so toothbrushes go for around anywhere between three
18:55pounds to six pounds and how much would a play wand cost like a normal one yeah uh varies seven
19:02pounds nine pounds so what makes you think people are going to use this at 24 pound 95.
19:10so uh the reason they'll spend money on this uh is because the products that they usually buy
19:16are a cat toothbrush because that's what the vet told them and i did the same but it didn't work
19:21my cat was not engaging with it but i look at that and i think that's a five pound product
19:26with a cat
19:26tooth cleaner on it um i make my own as well don't you just get a bit of stick or
19:32a bit of string to
19:33be perfect a bit of wall why don't i just get a toothbrush and attach it and do the same
19:37thing
19:37the reason is the materials that the dental wand are made with um it is non-toxic to cats and
19:45it is
19:46flexible enough to bend and not hurt cats teeth which are already quite sensitive because there
19:51um many cats already have gingivitis so if you make your own diy one you're risking the issue
19:58to actually cause damage i don't know that you'll find out because your cat's mouth because i bought
20:03it because i look at it and it doesn't say here that that yellow thing is better and different than
20:09anything else that i can do if i could buy that tie a bit of wool around it yeah you
20:15know a bit of feather
20:16with it yeah dangle it a bit and for all of you know five pounds have this amazing cat then
20:21you
20:22bingo victor i quite like the one though i think the wand is quite good thank you because you can
20:27still sit i could sit in my chair with a piece of string i've got to move and i've got
20:32to do i don't
20:32got to do much just with this yeah you could call it the sonic cat wand but it doesn't make
20:37it up to
20:37a 24.95 products victor the way the way around this simple um if you look at this um if
20:45you spend
20:45two or three thousand dollars on a mold on this yeah that'll probably cost you 30 cents once you
20:51spent we've we've got the tooling once you got the tooling for that that should be no more than 20
20:5630
20:56cents just churn those out in the millions once you've got a mold i would love to you know if
21:03if
21:03you got the contacts and it would be amazing to work with you victor that i think a lot of
21:09this is
21:10about you you're you're really good you know thank you and the fact that you've gone and created
21:15a product that seemingly does look like a bit of a gimmick but it's clearly practical and it works
21:24but have you got any other ideas or is it all going to be about dental products for cats so
21:30yes
21:31at the moment we've got other dental wand variations that we will launch but inventor as a brand our logo
21:40is a door that opens because i believe that any new idea is very open to create new opportunities
21:47to help no because that sounds really great but at the moment i'm opening that door and i'm not seeing
21:51anything else no there there is you need to give me that vision what's the other products is it all
21:56about the wand is my question then no there's another product which is about helping cats take uh their
22:01pills okay so another pill problem um look victor i think personally i'm really wanting to look at
22:10something a little bit bigger that has perhaps a wider opportunity so for me i'm gonna say that i'm out
22:20okay
22:24victor i've got a dog pablo little french bulldog and i the problem is real i really want to make
22:29sure he's
22:29got good dental hygiene so i've gone through a number of things he hates them all but i get it
22:34done within three minutes on your leaflet it says i have to do this seven play sessions with my cat
22:41to get it to brush its teeth for me that means it doesn't work and outside of that the design
22:46of this
22:48disagree yeah you're not a cat owner you want to try a cat with claws and teeth coming at you
22:53when
22:53you're trying to put your finger in its mouth you don't do it i'll i'll i'll assume that it works
22:58i'll
22:59assume it's the best available option in the market for dental hygiene then however i think
23:04that from a product design and engineering perspective it's got a long long way to go
23:08the one did break for me a lot of it feels cheap um i think you're a little bit early
23:12for an investment
23:14so i'm going to say that i'm out thank you
23:19listen i'll tell you where i'm at i haven't got a cat but he i've heard enough from deborah you're
23:25going
23:25to tell me it's the best thing since sliced bread her telling me it was the best thing since sliced
23:28bread is much more advocacy than you tell me i'm down with the product absolutely am however i can't
23:36reconcile the value of that product versus the price that you're paying for it i understand and
23:43and i can't i can't see how to join the dots so i'm going to say it's not an investment
23:49for me today
23:49and i'm out that's okay so i i really like it and i i there's something i like about you
24:00too thank you
24:01you've designed a product that up from from what i can see you know i that will go home and
24:07i will
24:08test that on my cats but i know my cats pretty well you know and i they'll engage with that
24:13and i can't
24:13get near their teeth but you have got a load of work to do here getting the price down getting
24:20a
24:21redesign um uh and actually getting you into i know you might be having conversations with some of these
24:27big sheds but actually getting that over the line and in store not just online yeah and i don't think
24:33you're going to be able to do any of that work without some help doing it so i am going
24:39to make
24:39you an offer thank you but this is a baby business this is a big risk that is going to
24:47be reflected
24:47in my valuation so i'm going to offer you all of the money but i want 40 of the business
25:01okay victor yes um look you've got elements here that could be a business um
25:09and i have got some very good connections in the pet industry especially one super chain
25:16all i'm saying really is i would match deborah's offer 45 000 40 of the business um so i i
25:25i think
25:25for me i i would be looking at this not just as this product you know the whole you know
25:31all care
25:32for cats or for dogs eventually that's that would be my thinking so i i'm i'm you could say i'm
25:41backing
25:41you and your knowledge more than the product okay
25:48do you want to go to the wall to the wall and have a um yeah thank you
25:56victor now has two rival offers on the table with deborah meaden and two cusilliman each prepared to
26:03part with 45 000 pounds for a 40 share in his business quadruple the equity he wanted to part with
26:19the fact that both that i got offers today is uh an honor so thank you so much
26:27um i think i'm gonna have to go with deborah you deborah please gonna have to go i want to
26:32go
26:33i'm so sorry do you want to say that all over again i will i will let me let me
26:37even walk back in here and and show me that level of go on okay i'm so sorry
26:49thank you so much for your offers it's honestly an honor and a privilege to just be standing here
26:54i want to go with you deborah excellent excellent well done you thank you so much well done you
27:04thank you thank you so much if you hear any screaming it's good screaming okay good victory
27:12for victor who leaves the den with 45 000 pounds having secured the backing of fellow feline fan
27:20deborah meaden well done deborah sometimes you just look at somebody and their product and think
27:28you know what that is going to be a nice business well done deborah yeah yeah man that was oh
27:36that was
27:36insane i loved it so surreal i'm really thankful that i'm working with deborah she is the one that i
27:43wanted
28:00in the
28:04ii saw a common traveler's problem and i found an innovative way to solve it and i can't wait to
28:11present it with the dragons going to the den i would really really be interested to have steven bartlett
28:21because i think you'll get the business it's tech savvy
28:24and it's a cool sort of marketing angle as well that he could bring to the business.
28:30I have prepared thoroughly, pitched quite a few times,
28:34and I'm ready to take all the questions as well.
28:37But if things don't go to plan, Janani could distract the dragons with her dance moves.
28:44I'm not just a founder, but I'm also a trained Indian classical dancer
28:48for about 18 years now, so, yeah.
29:04Hello, Dragons. I'm Janani Prabhakaran, founder of Unbaggaged,
29:08and I'm here seeking £80,000 for 10% of my company.
29:14Picture this. You've just checked out of your Airbnb with plenty of bags and nowhere to put them.
29:19Perhaps you're carrying your expensive set of golf clubs or a baby stroller.
29:23It's tiring and can ruin the last day of your fabulous trip.
29:27I absolutely love travelling, and I face the exact same problem on most of my trips.
29:35Unbaggaged is an on-demand luggage storage platform that picks up, stores, and returns your bags
29:40wherever you want in the city. Simply put, we are Uber for your bags.
29:46Go onto our website and input where, when, and how many bags need to be picked up and stored,
29:52and let our network of transport and storage partners do the work.
29:55We charge £10 per bag per day in addition to the transportation costs.
30:01Our optional passenger shuttle service allows users to be taken elsewhere once your bags are picked up or returned to
30:08them.
30:09Our target market are short-term rental properties, like Airbnb, who receive over 1 billion guests globally.
30:16We launched in 2021 in the UK's second most visited city, Edinburgh.
30:22Since then, we have stored over 1,700 plus bags, have 475 short-term rental properties, promoting our service against
30:30the commission.
30:31Any support would really take the baggage off my shoulders. Thank you very much.
30:38An on-demand collection and drop-off service for travellers and their luggage is the offering from Janani Prabhakaran.
30:47She is seeking £80,000 in exchange for a 10% share in her tech start-up.
30:53And the problem that Janani is attempting to address appears to have struck a chord with Deborah Meaden.
31:03So, baggage storage, but without me having to stand in a queue, because...
31:07Actually, it's funny you should say Edinburgh, because I have been that person.
31:11We Airbnb'd for the festival, and, of course, you've got to get out at whatever time, 10 o'clock in
31:17the morning.
31:17And then I went and stood in the queue at the train station to put my bags in.
31:23What did I pay for that? Remind me.
31:26At the left luggage, usually about £20 to £25, depending on your size limit and also how many bags you
31:33have.
31:34Right. OK, so this is competitive.
31:36It is competitive, so we charge £10 per bag. There's no limit.
31:40So you can store a golf bag or a baby stroller or just anything, really.
31:44OK, I presume we've got quite a few... I mean, you've got to have premises for a start.
31:51You've got to actually have somewhere to store the bags.
31:53Mm-hm. Not really. So we outsource that to storage spaces who make extra money off the extra space.
32:01OK, so we pay them about £3, and we take £7.
32:03OK, so talk me through that business model, the financial model.
32:07So I pay £10 for a bag. What are the elements of your part of that, and how much do
32:13they cost?
32:14Yes, so the transfer costs are passed on to the customer, so we don't take any cut on that right
32:19now.
32:20And we pay the storage partner £3 as a commission per bag, and we take £7.
32:26Right. What other elements are there in the business, though?
32:29What comes out of that £7 that you've... your gross profit?
32:33Out of that, if it is through our athletes,
32:37they get paid about £5 as a commission per booking.
32:41Right, so that leaves you with £2, and what's that got to pay for?
32:46So the £2 we put 50p aside for insurance as well, so we make about £1.50.
32:52OK, and then what else have you got to pay for?
32:55So, currently, I take about £1,000 as salary,
33:00and we don't invest in any marketing at the moment,
33:03so 90% of our sales just comes from our athletes.
33:07Well, that's great at the moment, but presumably you're seeking investment
33:10because you want this business to grow,
33:11and I think what I'm more interested, then,
33:13is in what it's going to look like going forward,
33:16because at the moment there just isn't enough money in it
33:21for you to promote the business properly,
33:24to get enough people to know about you,
33:26and for you to pay your salary, there's nowhere near enough.
33:30So how does that business model change going forward?
33:35So in the next 12 months, we want to scale to at least three or four cities,
33:40and we are aiming for about 200 bookings per city,
33:43which will give us about 1,000 banks.
33:45And the more cities we are in, the more users we can use multiple times,
33:50and the retention increases well,
33:52and that's when we start making profit out of the business.
34:01So I came to UK to do my undergrad degree in Scotland in entrepreneurship,
34:09and before I graduated, I came across Unbaggish.
34:13I loved the idea and I thought that the market really needs it,
34:16and I just immediately jumped on doing it.
34:19So when I graduated, I became an entrepreneur immediately.
34:22How old are you?
34:24I'm 24.
34:27Have you got any business partners or anything?
34:29No, I don't. It's just me.
34:32Okay, so you've left university studying a really great degree
34:36in a great part of the country,
34:38and you've immediately pursued the path of building a tech company.
34:43What do your friends and family and all of that think of you?
34:46Well, my father's an entrepreneur himself,
34:48so he's very supportive of it.
34:50And for me personally, it's just, if I don't take a risk at this point,
34:55or, like, just get into it and experience the real world of entrepreneurship,
34:59I feel like I'll never get to do it again.
35:02Janani. Yeah. Congratulations.
35:05You know, we have so many people who will say,
35:07oh, I had this idea for a business,
35:09but then don't actually do anything with it,
35:11and you're actually doing something with it.
35:14And I just want to get my head around,
35:17when Deborah was pushing you on the,
35:18understanding the breakdown of the £10 you get,
35:21at one point you said £5 of that went to an affiliate.
35:24Mm-hm. So it's my understanding that, for example,
35:27the Airbnb company or whoever,
35:30where they would recommend your service,
35:32and in return you'd pay them a £5 commission.
35:36Yes. So how our affiliate partnership works
35:39is that if you're on an Airbnb, we sign you up to it,
35:42you will receive your personalised voucher code,
35:45say, you know, Deborah 10%, something like that.
35:48And then when they go to the checkout,
35:50they put that code,
35:51and we will identify that we got a booking
35:54from this particular affiliate,
35:56and we pay them £5 at the end of the month.
35:59So actually it's costing you more
36:01than what you declared to Deborah,
36:03because you are having to give the end user
36:0710% discount.
36:09Yeah.
36:09So out of your £10,
36:11you've paid £5 to the affiliate,
36:12you've paid £3 for the storage,
36:14you've given them 10% off,
36:16so there's another pound gone,
36:17then you've got 50p for insurance,
36:20so we're now only making like 50p profit.
36:25That's right.
36:26So the thing that concerns me is,
36:28you're working on such tiny, tiny margins,
36:31that literally every penny of that £10
36:34you're getting from the customer is really important.
36:37OK.
36:37And I worry that you're not going to be able
36:39to get the numbers tied up in this business.
36:43OK.
36:48Janani, I've got a daughter of 24,
36:52and I know she's at the crossroads,
36:54what does she want to do,
36:55and I can help her,
36:56but I'm allowing her to find her own level,
37:00because we all have to have beginnings.
37:02But your beginning actually is far more advanced
37:06than an average 24-year-old.
37:08You were grilled quite a lot by my fellow dragons
37:11about profitability,
37:12but that's easy to change,
37:14because you could quite easily say,
37:17look, this is a service,
37:18that's a pick-up service,
37:20a delivery service,
37:21it's £30 a bag or two for 50.
37:25If you pitch it at the right level,
37:28this could be profitable.
37:30I do agree,
37:31but right now we are going with these prices
37:33because we want to price match with the competition
37:35and actually want users to use us.
37:38So that's the primary goal here for now.
37:42Look, the fact that you've thought about this
37:45and you've thought about the problem,
37:47that's your biggest tick.
37:51But I would re-look at this and say,
37:54how do I create a premium service and charge for it?
38:00Don't be afraid to tweak the model.
38:03But I mean, today,
38:06it's not investable for me.
38:09And I'm out.
38:13So,
38:16for me, the kind of secret sauce
38:18of successful businesses that we see here in the den
38:21is when someone can show you there is this problem,
38:24and I've got that solution.
38:27You've ticked that.
38:29Fantastic.
38:30The problem is,
38:32that solution to that problem
38:33isn't a profitable business model.
38:37It might be that you need to triple the prices,
38:39to Tuka's point.
38:40I know you don't want to,
38:41you want to be competitive.
38:42You don't have to be competitive
38:43if you're offering a premium service.
38:45When you're bringing your product to market,
38:48you either have to be better than the competition
38:50or cheaper than the competition.
38:52You're trying to do both.
38:53You don't need to do both.
38:56So, I can't invest and I'm out,
38:58but I want to wish you all the best.
39:00Thanks for the advice, Sarah.
39:05I'm going to, I'm going to tell you where I am.
39:09I kind of, I kind of wish you hadn't asked for 80,000 for 10%,
39:13because that is a little bit racy, to say the least.
39:17And I'll tell you why it's racy.
39:18It's valuing your business 800,000 pounds.
39:20And it's a business that hasn't worked its model out yet.
39:25And then on top of that, you're going to need more time
39:29than I think I personally can give you.
39:32So, I'm afraid it's that combination.
39:35For me, it makes it uninvestable.
39:38So, sadly, I won't be investing.
39:42I'm out.
39:45So, I'm sitting here, not just thinking of the business,
39:49I'm thinking of the entrepreneur that's before me.
39:52And I think you are a superb, successful entrepreneur in waiting.
40:00However, this is not a business that's investable right at this moment.
40:06So, for that reason, I'm out.
40:09But I wish you the very best.
40:14Junani, um...
40:16I get it, you're in the figure it out phase.
40:20I remember, at 19 years old, launching a business
40:23that was taking a sort of, a similar path forward city by city
40:27and trying to expand within those cities,
40:28trying to establish product market fit and then scale.
40:31And it was only in hindsight that my desire to go from Manchester
40:34and then to expand to seven other cities
40:36was actually because Manchester wasn't really, really working properly.
40:40I wish I'd just cracked that first city first.
40:43And I think that's what you should actually be doing.
40:45You remind me of myself in many ways, but I want to say,
40:48I actually, I really believe in you.
40:51And I wrote down in my diary that I actually think
40:53you're going to be sat in this seat one day,
40:54whether it's this business or something else,
40:56I really, really, really believe in you.
40:59But I don't think we've quite figured it out just yet.
41:04So, I won't be an investor in this business at this stage,
41:06so I'm going to say that I'm out.
41:08Thank you so much. Thank you.
41:10Well done, Junani. I'll see you in my seat one day.
41:13Bye, guys. See you later.
41:17Janani may have failed to bag herself a dragon,
41:21but she leaves the den having picked up some new admirers.
41:29She was great, wasn't she? Yeah.
41:32A dragon in waiting.
41:34But she hasn't worked it out yet. No.
41:38I didn't get an offer, but all the feedback
41:42and, you know, kind words that I received from them,
41:45definitely a takeaway and a motivation as well.
42:04Okay? Do you want a drink? Yes, please.
42:07Hi, I'm Charlene. I was a freelance illustrator.
42:10Okay, cheers for luck.
42:13I'm Simon. My background is in investment banking
42:16and the product that we're bringing today
42:19is very different to that.
42:21What have we let ourselves in for?
42:24We're husband and wife
42:25and we have a little girl, Goldie, who's just turned three.
42:29She was actually our inspiration
42:30to what we're bringing to the dragons today.
42:32I've got this. You've got it?
42:34You've got it.
42:35So, it does seem a lot, but obviously we work together.
42:37Yeah, we're husband and wife as well.
42:39Okay, high five, down five.
42:42Don't leave me hanging.
42:44We do have to have a cut-off point, though, at home.
42:48Nine o'clock cut-off, that's it.
42:49It never happens.
42:52Ready?
42:53Yeah, let's go.
42:55Okay.
42:56Coming in and asking for the offer that we're coming in for
42:59is quite a strange thing to be doing in business.
43:02So, we're a little bit nervous about that,
43:04but hopefully, you know, luck's on our side
43:06and the dragons love what we're doing.
43:15Our question once upon a time was can kids' stories be sublime
43:20and free and instant, zero stress?
43:24The answer, it turns out, is yes.
43:27Hello, dragons.
43:29I'm Charlene.
43:30Simon here.
43:31And I have been transforming how the market looks
43:34with our new start-up, Superbooks.
43:37We offer bookshop quality, but here's the thing, we do it free.
43:44So families can use our site at any time of day or night.
43:48Our daughter was our inspiration, then came lockdown on the nation.
43:54The schools were shut, which made things tough.
43:57Families, teachers, had it rough.
43:59And so to help and add some glee, we gave the schools our stories free.
44:05And then one day, Sai said,
44:07Oh, wow, we're number one on Google now.
44:10But while the story side was neat, we really couldn't make ends meet.
44:14We tried so hard to keep it free, but had to introduce a fee.
44:18Then quickly went upon a quest to find some people who'd invest.
44:22Fast forward and we found some backing, grew a team and got things cracking.
44:26Since then, we've grown, which is great news.
44:29We're up to 14 million views.
44:31So now that we are growing fast, we'd love a dragon's help to cast a spell
44:35and earn from big blue chips with licensing and sponsorships.
44:40So 1% we offer round for just one single British pound
44:47to help the nation's kids stand tall with our free Superbooks for all.
44:53And now we've written a short Dragon's Den teaser episode
44:58from one of our original series, Weird Life, which is a nature mockumentary.
45:05An online collection of stories for children to read and listen to
45:09is the offering from Simon Hood and Charlene Mitchell Hood.
45:13As I enter their murky den, a giant hub of dragon towers before me,
45:19wearing overpowering socks.
45:21They're offering the dragons 1% of their business
45:25for the unusually meagre sum of one pound.
45:29Ah, look, a majestic dragon in a peaceful slumber,
45:33dreaming sweetly about whether it's worth getting up for 1%.
45:38Their bespoke bedtime story has captured the dragon's imaginations.
45:43This mum appears to be using a magical device packed full
45:48of her little beast's favourite bedtime stories.
45:52Very crafty indeed.
45:54And Peter Jones is quick to compliment the couple on their creativity.
46:01I'd say congratulations on the short story,
46:05Dragon's Den short story.
46:06Really good.
46:07I also want to say a massive congratulations
46:12because Superbooks is going to go down in Dragon's Den history.
46:19It's the first time ever we've had somebody valuing their business
46:24at £100.
46:25Yeah, we thought we might be.
46:28So, I'm going to hone in on that a little bit.
46:30So, 1%.
46:31The reason that we valued it at £100 today is,
46:36on paper, the business is worth £3.2 million.
46:38We've got cash in the bank.
46:40This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for us
46:42to stand in front of you today.
46:44And we just think that if we had dragons involved,
46:48like, this could help millions and millions of people.
46:50Yeah, it's to help the nation.
46:52Do you own all the company at the moment?
46:54Have you formed a company?
46:55Formed a company.
46:56And how much have you invested?
46:58We started this with £2,500.
46:59£1,500.
47:00And then you've raised how much since?
47:0318 months ago, we generated £800,000.
47:06And where's that from?
47:08So, we've got two VCs and 29 angels.
47:12Wow.
47:13Then who are the angels?
47:15Yeah, the biggest ones are Tom Bloomfield.
47:17He's a good friend of mine.
47:18Founder of Monzo.
47:18He's founder of Monzo.
47:19And then we've got Princess Beatrice.
47:22You've got royalty as an investor?
47:25Yeah.
47:26Wow, absolutely incredible. Congratulations.
47:29Congratulations.
47:31So, I saw, when you were scrolling through the books,
47:36I saw original stories, but I also saw some known titles.
47:41So, what can I find on your site?
47:43Everything's original on our site.
47:45So, we do have fairy tales, but they've all been retold by us.
47:49It's a strategy we had to use the fairy tales because the majority of people that we get actually search
47:56for well-known stories on Google.
47:59Right.
47:59So, we bring them in on the well-known titles and then they migrate onto our original series.
48:04Yeah, that's our full acquisition strategy is essentially, at the moment, it's just 100% Google.
48:11So, you wanted to do this lovely thing, but you're obviously providing it for free at the beginning, which isn't
48:18a story.
48:18It's a charity because you end up, it always costs you something.
48:21So, what's your revenue stream at the moment?
48:23When we started, we shared the site with schools and within a couple of months, we were literally at 850
48:31,000 hits a month.
48:33We thought we might be able to monetize with a small subscription.
48:38So, we've earned £90,000 so far, but when we added the subscription, Google doesn't like that.
48:44So, our visibility dropped and our acquisition strategy didn't work anymore.
48:48So, we realized that basically it had to be free to get the traction.
48:52And so, we're moving from a subscription model to basically a traffic model where we get the views and we
49:01can monetize that via ads and sponsorships.
49:04Right. Okay.
49:05Simon.
49:06Charlie.
49:07Hi.
49:07I've been waiting to get a word in edgeways.
49:09I keep trying.
49:10I'm not picking up.
49:11That's great to show how passionate everybody is.
49:14So, I think people see us sitting in these chairs as dragons.
49:17What a lot of people don't see is we often get, all of us, offers like this on a regular
49:22basis where people just want to give us some of their company for a pound or for nothing.
49:27Yep.
49:28And what I've learned in life is nothing comes for free.
49:31Amen.
49:32So, what would you expect me, Sarah Davies, to do for you in return for that 1% of the
49:39company?
49:40It's introductions.
49:42Yeah.
49:42That's it.
49:43It's those connections at the end of the day.
49:44And as we've found out already, you know, one link into a network just went.
49:53Last question for you then.
49:54You've got an incredible cap table.
49:56Some of my friends on there, like Tom from Onze.
49:58Why didn't you go to them?
50:00Why did you choose to come here?
50:03Well, we can, but we want more incredible people.
50:18Look, I would love to be on this journey with you.
50:22And I'm sure all of us could add value.
50:28It's a shame you haven't got 5% and have 1% each and we'll all help you.
50:33Can I just ask?
50:35Is that what you're trying to do?
50:37You are just trying to get five dragons for 1% because you're going to give away 5% of
50:41the company?
50:43Well, we came in here offering what we offered and we hope that all five dragons will...
50:49But we didn't know what exactly...
50:50We don't know what...
50:51But what I'm saying is, are you just going to choose one or are you going to...
50:55Where's your strategy here?
50:58Well, we can't really give that away now, can we?
51:00Good answer.
51:01Good answer, Charlie.
51:07Dragons, dragons.
51:09Sorry, can you bear with us a second?
51:11Yeah.
51:11Do you want us to...
51:12Do you want us to turn?
51:14Can you do me a favour?
51:15Could you come to the wall with me already?
51:17Can we go to...
51:19We're going to the wall, Tim.
51:20Are we going to go to the wall?
51:24Can we take a picture?
51:25A first in den history, as all five dragons head to the wall to discuss terms for a potential counteroffer.
51:36I've got a feeling that this is their intentions, that they want all five dragons for 1%.
51:43One pound for 1% looks good on paper, but is the company's potential to become profitable a work of
51:51fact or fiction?
51:53My concern is, I actually think, I'm going to be honest, I think it's a bit of a mirage in
51:57several days.
51:58So what could happen in traffic, but where's the business model?
52:01Will it be happily ever after for this tearful twosome?
52:05Or will there be a twist in the tale?
52:09Yeah.
52:11Dragons are good.
52:16You'll have to excuse me as far as I got a bit emotional.
52:19Are you okay?
52:21Yeah, because I just can't believe how well you've taken...
52:25Yeah, how positive you've been about basically our baby and it's been a lot for us for the last three
52:31years.
52:32You showed us your baby and we loved it.
52:36And I think now we've had a conversation for the first time ever all together.
52:41And we want to offer you that we will all individually put in a pound for 1%.
52:46So you would end up giving away 5%, but you get five dragons for £5.
52:56Thank you all for having us here today.
52:59I don't know where to start, but Peter, Stephen, Deborah, Sarah and Tuca, we'd love to accept your offer.
53:07Well, we're joining your family.
53:09Can you give me a big hug now?
53:11How are you?
53:12Simon and Charlene have done it.
53:14You are tall.
53:15You are tall. Everyone says you are tall.
53:18Congratulations, guys.
53:19In a pitch that'll be remembered for the lowest valuation, the smallest ask, and for the first time one particular
53:27dragon has been compelled to get up for 1%.
53:32Oh, my God.
53:35Oh, my gosh, I want to scream.
53:37You just cannot believe.
53:38I just cannot believe what's just happened.
53:40And I've got very emotional with it.
53:43Don't cry.
53:46I need to have five dragons on board.
53:47Five dragons on board.
53:48Five percent.
53:49It's just a dream come true.
53:51Absolutely.
53:52What a touching reaction.
53:53The emotion there was...
53:55Yeah.
53:55I love it when a story has a happy ending.
53:57A happy ending.
53:58Yeah.
54:08Next time on Dragon's Den.
54:10You might have competition today, then.
54:12We'll see about that.
54:16Sorry, I've just got it.
54:18Have you gone blank?
54:19We're here today asking for £50,000.
54:22How much?
54:2240 years ago, I decided to start my first business.
54:26Oh, my God, you look so young.
54:27It can't possibly be.
54:29Yeah, I've got asthma.
54:30Deal with it.
54:31It's gutting when they walk out with nothing, no?
54:34Oh, she's fine.
54:35Hey, Moinsie!
54:37Hey, Moinsie!
54:37Hey, Moinsie!
55:04Hey.
55:05Hey.