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00:06Dragon's Den is back and open for business.
00:10I don't often say this, but your pitch was awful.
00:13You've got to be quiet for this little bit, Peter, if that's alright.
00:15Ouch!
00:16A place where budding entrepreneurs are given a once-in-a-lifetime chance.
00:21You have this most bizarre way of answering questions.
00:26Stop it!
00:27To present their wares to five Captains of Commerce.
00:31You wanted to see how credible we are, so I'm about to show you.
00:34Well, show me.
00:36Some will succeed and go on to make millions.
00:40Whee!
00:42Others will fail and leave with nothing.
00:45Make him a counteroff or tell him to shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
00:48With the occasional visit from some wealthy VIPs...
00:52I can't not give you money. I can't not make you an offer.
00:55First deal in the day.
00:58I didn't want it anyway.
01:00The hunt is on to find the next big money-making idea.
01:04Dragons are go.
01:07Tonight.
01:08Good day, dragons.
01:11What does that mean?
01:11You're like a raft stuck in the middle of the sea.
01:13I don't know which way to go.
01:14Hang on, did you miss that last number, by the way?
01:16Because that made me gasp.
01:17Yep.
01:18Your mother must be so unbelievably proud of both of you.
01:22Yeah.
01:22She should be.
01:23Oh, sorry, did you want to ask a question?
01:24Well, I wouldn't mind.
01:25Go for it, go for it, go for it.
01:27Is it all right to speak?
01:28I've been in the den for three years now.
01:29I think this is the steepest valuation I've ever seen.
01:32What a disaster.
01:33I think this could be something very special.
01:44Oh my God.
01:46Stop it.
01:47I can't.
01:48Stop it.
01:49I can't.
01:50I can't.
01:50I can't.
01:50I just can't.
01:54Boom.
01:55And just stop.
01:57Okay.
01:57So I'm Alex.
01:58And I am Nicole.
02:01I love this so much.
02:03I love this.
02:04This is my brother.
02:07We grew up together.
02:09Did we?
02:10Yeah, we did.
02:12Catwalk it.
02:12Come on.
02:14When we walk into the den, I really hope that the dragons get the positive energy from what they see
02:19in front of them.
02:25Oh, I do love a bit of skin care.
02:27Hmm.
02:29Yeah.
02:29As you get this age, you really need help with this.
02:34What is your secret, Peter?
02:35I've always wondered.
02:36I think, you know, plastic surgery helps quite a lot these days.
02:43Behind those doors, destiny awaits.
02:50Stop it.
02:51Stop it.
02:52Oh, my God.
02:52Stop it.
02:54This is so surreal.
02:56What were you expecting?
02:58Wow.
03:00Okay.
03:01Good day, dragons.
03:04Sorry, this is just super surreal.
03:05But I'm so excited.
03:06My name is Alex.
03:07This is my sister and best friend, Nicole.
03:09Hi, dragons.
03:10We are so excited to be here today to introduce to you our award-winning and eco-luxury skincare brand.
03:15Neely Organics.
03:17We are here today to ask for £50,000 in exchange for 10% equity in the company.
03:23When I was 16, I suffered from severe acne.
03:25My confidence was knocked and my positive shining light was dimming.
03:28After a strong dose of Rackutane, my acne cleared up, but my skin was left in bits.
03:32Sensitive, dry and weak.
03:34I tried everything to get it back to healthy balance.
03:37But it was not until I discovered natural beauty that my skin and life changed for good.
03:42I love the power of natural and organic ingredients blended together.
03:45That's why I decided to be a formulator and do a formulation course.
03:49And then I worked in the skincare industry for over 10 years, working for some of the biggest natural brands,
03:53honing my knowledge and skills.
03:55So I worked as a special effects makeup artist and prop designer.
04:00Unfortunately, five years in, I had a severe reaction to one of the most commonly used chemicals in the field.
04:06So I had to walk away from it.
04:08And sadly, at the same time, our great grandmother had passed away and left us £1,000 each.
04:13So we thought, why not invest in NeNe and take it to market?
04:16And that's what we did.
04:17We have an accumulative turnover of over £1.3 million with 11,000 customers.
04:23We need a dragon to come on board and help open doors and build this brand.
04:28So thank you and we welcome any questions.
04:31OK.
04:32So...
04:33A natural and organic skincare range is the offering from brother and sister Alex Nicolau and Nicole Stanton.
04:41There we go.
04:42So here you've got our rain mist, our crimson beauty serum, our detox oil moisturiser and mask.
04:47I'm incredibly excited.
04:48So am I.
04:49The chatty siblings are seeking £50,000 in return for 10% of their beauty business.
04:56There you go.
04:57You have really got great skin.
04:59What's due to this?
05:02Peter Jones is the first dragon to try and get a word in.
05:08OK, so in front of you, what you have...
05:11Oh, sorry, did you want to ask a question?
05:12Well, I wouldn't mind.
05:13Go for it, go for it, go for it.
05:15Is it all right to speak?
05:16Yes, yes, please.
05:17Of course, of course.
05:17We've been waiting months to speak.
05:19No.
05:21Why this?
05:22Why this type of business?
05:25Well, for me personally, skincare has always been a super, super safe space for me
05:30because when I had acne, I found so much comfort in locking my bathroom door as a kid
05:35and just exploring what my mum had in the cabinet.
05:38And I just knew that this was my passion, this was my calling, was to create my own brand.
05:45OK.
05:46Nicole, you had, you said, a reaction.
05:50Yes.
05:50A very bad reaction.
05:51Yeah.
05:52Tell me about that.
05:53So, in the film industry, they use polyurethane as one of their main chemicals to create props
06:01and one time I was making a mould and I poured a lot of it, the liquid, on my chest.
06:08That then caused this reaction where my skin started to open up, I had impetigo
06:13and then every time I went back into the studio, it just caused a massive reaction again.
06:18Wow, I'm really sorry.
06:19Yeah.
06:20I mean, I don't, I'm not sorry.
06:22For me, it was the best thing because it then led me to this
06:25and genuinely, this is what I love doing.
06:28This is my, now my passion.
06:30You know what, that's the best reframe of any individual
06:32when they have something that's adverse as that.
06:35Yeah.
06:36And they treat that moment as a gift.
06:38Yeah.
06:38100%.
06:39That's a great way to look at life.
06:42Alex, Nicole, they seem lovely.
06:45Thank you so much.
06:46Now, where do you see this big place?
06:50You've said you want to drag them to open some doors.
06:52Yeah.
06:53Whose doors?
06:53So we really want to be in stores.
06:56Obviously, Space NK would be great.
06:58Liberties would be great here.
06:59Selfridges would be great.
07:01But we just haven't, we haven't scratched the surface with the wholesaler for these bigger shops yet.
07:05So it really is your high-end specialist.
07:08Yeah.
07:08It's not a boot and a super drill.
07:10No, no, no, no.
07:10It's a gone into space NK.
07:12Oh, yeah.
07:12Yeah.
07:14Can I ask a question then, in terms of retail?
07:16We have a lot of beauty products coming to the den, but there's also just a lot of them in
07:20the market.
07:20Yeah.
07:21And the key question I ask myself is, what is that one sentence story that separates you and gives you
07:28that sort of distinction from the rest of the market?
07:31What makes us super different is every single formula is made by myself.
07:38So all the ingredients within our formulas just helped give you that overall balance to your skin.
07:44Because that's all we want, it's balance.
07:46Do you tell that story anywhere?
07:47Via our socials.
07:48It's hard to put everything on a box, but via our socials and via our website, yes.
07:52Because when I saw this brand and before you came in, the last thing I thought your brand was was
07:57distinctive.
08:01You even look at that there.
08:02Yeah.
08:03It's just all white.
08:05There's nothing distinctive about that.
08:07You're not offensive.
08:08You're not provocative.
08:09You're not emotional.
08:10You're not controversial in any way.
08:12So you're indifferent.
08:15If you're wallpaper, no one's ever going to see you.
08:18And right now this is wallpaper.
08:21That's why we're happy to take that all on board and we want to sit down and talk about that.
08:25I also want to note that, you know, we don't just see the brand in retail.
08:29We see it as a spa brand.
08:32So when you go to get a facial, they use our products.
08:36You don't get it.
08:37So that is really where we would like to see the brand as well.
08:39Good job.
08:40But how are you going to do that?
08:42So this is good because it's gone from, oh, this is all wonderful to the reality of business.
08:49So if you're competing against a Nespa or a Naveed, how are you going to take them out of a
08:56spa?
08:58That's really, really challenging because people want that market leader.
09:03They want the brand that they respect.
09:04They want a brand that they know for 25 years.
09:07What makes you think for one minute a wonderful brother and sister startup business is going to go,
09:14Oh, don't worry about them.
09:15I'm lovely.
09:17You know what?
09:17Pick me.
09:18Yeah.
09:19Because I think that I don't, I'm going to challenge you.
09:22I don't think you've got a chance in hell.
09:25Maybe for those bigger, bigger, huge spa operations, they might decide to pull a sister part to it and be
09:32like,
09:33we want to bring in more niche brands.
09:35Well, they might want to, but how are you going to make that happen?
09:38What's different about you?
09:40Well, we're a ritual that lives for the fantasy.
09:44What does that mean?
09:45It means that when you use it, you are living in your fantasy of like this happiness,
09:50this kind of enjoyment of using products.
09:52But a ritual living in fantasy, that sounds like, that's more like, like a sex product.
09:57Right.
10:00You can take it however you want to take it.
10:01It's up to you to digest it.
10:04Do you know what? I'll just give you some advice, right?
10:06The most powerful story you can tell about this brand is the story you told about where it came from.
10:13And then it will make us feel something.
10:15Yeah.
10:16But, like, we are the alternative beauty approach.
10:18Why?
10:19Because we do only use active ingredients, natural ingredients.
10:24Why?
10:24Because it's the best for your skin.
10:26It's the best for the environment.
10:27And how did you come to know that was true?
10:29It's just innate within nature and obviously studying.
10:33Oh, and also because of my acne and because of her.
10:36There we go.
10:37There we go.
10:37We've got it.
10:41Oh, God.
10:42It doesn't take long, you know?
10:45Yeah.
10:45But that's why we're here.
10:47We're a ticking time bomb as a brand.
10:49And I think we've got all the basic things down.
10:52That it's just the little tweaks that you're saying in front of us right now.
10:55That would go boom, straight away.
10:58Because the customers love the product.
11:00I can't stress that enough.
11:06Alex, Nicole, I would love to invest in you two.
11:09Yeah.
11:10You are so much fun and I would absolutely love working with you.
11:14Oh, my God.
11:15OK.
11:18However, I just have zero appetite for the enormous journey you're going to have to go on.
11:25Please don't underestimate it to make a breakthrough in this market.
11:30The chances of achieving it is about this big and it's going to take an inexorbitant amount of work.
11:37So I'm going to say that I'm out.
11:43So, um, I have been involved in this industry, but I couldn't agree more with Sara.
11:51This is an incredibly, incredibly hotly contested industry.
11:56Yeah.
11:58And I don't have an appetite for doing it again.
12:03So I'm afraid I won't be investing in that.
12:12OK, guys, I think you are absolutely two cracking individuals.
12:19You would literally light up any day.
12:23The reality is, though, there are thousands of other people out there.
12:28Yeah.
12:28In the marketplace.
12:31These people have a large amount of money, obviously from a marketing perspective.
12:36Mm-hmm.
12:37And I can't see how you're going to compete.
12:43So, that's why you desperately need me.
12:49Amazing.
12:52Are you ready for this?
12:53Yes.
12:54This is your moment.
12:55OK.
12:56This is my moment.
12:57OK, got it.
12:58I'm going to make you an offer.
13:01Stop it.
13:02Stop it.
13:04Showing your negotiating skills.
13:06Right there.
13:09Is everyone behind all that?
13:11This is this.
13:12Oh.
13:15OK.
13:17So I'm going to offer you all of the money.
13:20OK.
13:24For 20% of the business.
13:26Yeah.
13:29Is that done?
13:30No.
13:31I'm at least ready.
13:33That must mean that we've got something.
13:35Do you actually need to discuss this?
13:36Alex, Nicole.
13:37We want to hear from the other amazing people.
13:40Oh, God.
13:42Love your socks.
13:43I love it.
13:45There's a lot of work to do.
13:47From the driving the brand and the marketing perspective,
13:49and figuring out how you go from a brand with an audience
13:51of, say, 20,000 online...
13:53Yeah.
13:54..to 20 million online...
13:55That's it.
13:55..is my area of expertise.
13:58So I'm going to make you an offer.
14:01Oh, my God.
14:05I'll give you all of the money...
14:08..for 20% of the business.
14:12OK.
14:18Do you want to go chuck something in?
14:19Well, my God, this is the best.
14:20So, I'm going to make you an offer.
14:26Oh, my God.
14:28I'm going to offer you all of the money.
14:31I also want 20%.
14:38OK.
14:39Do you want to go chuck something in?
14:41Yes, thank you.
14:42Back to the window.
14:43Oh, my God.
14:43Oh my god a staggering turnaround leaves Alex and Nicole with three competing bids to consider
14:52Peter Jones
14:54Stephen Bartlett and
14:56Tuka Suleiman have all offered
14:5850,000 pounds in return for the 20% equity the pair originally put on the table
15:18Right and to sweat in and I mean thank you all so much for your offers
15:27Tuka thank you so much. We really appreciate it
15:31But we did just want to ask if you two would be willing to go in together
15:39Just because you do both such different things
15:43And I feel like combined you could really help grow the business if you did half the money for 10
15:49% each
15:55Yeah, I'm just saying yeah, yeah, I'll be the
16:00Wow
16:06From skin cream purveyors to dragon slayers
16:13Alex and Nicole leave the den with 50,000 pounds
16:20And the backing of a duo
16:22Bye
16:23Thank you
16:24With the skills to make this skin care business shine
16:32Oh my heart my heart
16:36That's gonna be a an enjoyable fun journey an enjoyable journey yeah, I think I think this could be something
16:43very special
16:43I could be the model you know
16:45Actually, can I honestly say I think you'd be the perfect model well, let's consult
17:14Let's have a
17:14We're all twins and we're from London
17:17Can we have one of you guys
17:18Can we have one of you guys
17:23Working with my sister is
17:25Can be difficult
17:27Yes
17:30Up we go
17:30Our strategy when we go in is for me to give my sister a little bit more leeway to answer
17:36questions
17:36Because for me, I love chatting and I tend to forget that she's there
17:40Ready, ready, ready, ready, ready, ready, ready
17:54Hi dragons, I'm Shanice Thompson and I'm Shanette Thompson and we're here today seeking 50,000 pounds for 15%
18:00equity off our business
18:01Rent to score an innovative company that tracks rent payments history will generate a score that selected lenders will use
18:09to determine affordability when renting or buying for property
18:13The idea came about after migrating from Jamaica and seeing how expensive it was for a family to afford paying
18:19their rent
18:20The normal credit score was low due to prioritizing their rent over paying their other bills
18:25You may have heard the question why can I afford to pay my rent, but can I get a mortgage?
18:30Did you know that one in five consumers a low credit score which makes them look risky to lenders?
18:36Credit reference agency collects lots of different data on consumers and grouped it into a single score
18:43This has a significant impact and amount of credit extended and the interest re-repay
18:48However, they neglect one of the largest and highest priority bills on people's monthly outgoing their rent
18:56Our aim is to help generation renters and low credit holders get approved and secure their future
19:02We're here to revolutionize the market and help that one in five get approved by using a rental payment history
19:08Unlike most alternative lenders, we use rent payments to determine their affordability
19:13This is done by collecting data such as a list of addresses, work information, rent payment details, CCJs and even
19:22eviction notices
19:22We believe that renters should have the right to buy and let properties based on their renting history and not
19:29their personal credit
19:30You can afford to pay your rent on time. You can afford to pay your mortgage
19:37An alternative credit score platform that takes into account rental records for people looking to rent
19:43Or get a mortgage is the proposition from chenise and chenette thompson
19:49The jamaican-born duo are seeking 50 000 pounds in return for a 15 percent share in their tech startup
19:57Deborah Meaden is first to scrutinize the pair's plans to shake up the finance sector
20:05So if I was a landlord looking to let
20:10Because that's what you're trying to help you're trying to help
20:13Renters overcome the barrier of a landlord looking up what their credit rating looks like and saying no
20:19So if I was the landlord
20:22What data would I be able to look at that would make me feel comfortable about that renter?
20:27As we listed before the main thing is CCJs
20:31If you have any CCJs and eviction notices
20:33So those are the main ones for the landlords to look at because if you go out and try to
20:39rent somewhere
20:39Landlords don't know if you've ever had the eviction notice and you can lie and say you know
20:44I've never been evicted before
20:45So we collect 12 months data and what we do we go back to your prior landlord
20:50And we get the information just as how much was your last rent
20:55Any miss payment and all of this information is put into a number
21:00Why would a landlord?
21:02I'm one of them. So why would I use your service?
21:06If you haven't got the actual data
21:09Anywhere near in the similar comparison to an Experian for example
21:14Because Experian
21:17That's why they exist
21:18Yeah
21:19So you use Experian because that gives me a full credit check on them as an individual
21:25You know you've passed first base basically
21:28Then from there you then move directly to a request for information
21:32That request for information asks the specific questions
21:35How long have they lived there?
21:37The rental, how regular are the payments?
21:39That comes back and then that gives me whether they're a good tenant
21:44That credit process is quite simple
21:48Yeah, yeah, so we don't want to focus on your credit cards or your phone bills or anything
21:53We just want to focus on the rent
21:55We're trying to build up a database so that landlords banks and anyone who wants to rent a property or
22:01say
22:02Okay, I'm gonna let you purchase a property is by checking the history to say over the last five years
22:07This person has been immaculate in pain. Let's say 1800 pounds of rent
22:11They want a mortgage for 850 pounds a month. I can see that this person is genuinely
22:18Great at paying this so I have all this information. I can offer them
22:23Look I
22:24It's always admirable
22:26First it's great to meet you. Yeah, but the thing is you're you're dealing with financial institutions and if those
22:31financial institutions have a level of governance
22:33Yeah
22:34They are forced to go through partners and those specific partners are the likes of experian and other specifically approved
22:42credit agencies that are fca approved and have been going for a long time
22:46Yeah
22:48You're not going to be able to circumnavigate that
22:51By coming in with oh, by the way, we've got our latest app
22:55Yeah, that's this is a real problem for you
23:01Can you tell me about your um your your professional backgrounds?
23:06So professionally I am a economist. I have a PhD in philosophy and I also have a law degree
23:13And what about me? I've studied business management in the past and now I'm a student nurse
23:19And you moved from Jamaica when you were young to the UK. Jamaica by the way is the best place
23:23on earth
23:23Oh, thank you hearing the little twang in your accent makes me think I need to go back to the
23:27girl
23:27I need to go
23:27We moved from Jamaica when we were 17
23:29Most of our life was not that easy growing up so
23:33What do you mean?
23:34Well, we came from a very poor background or a mom migrated when we were seven to make sure that
23:39we had a better life
23:40Yeah, and um, it wasn't so easy growing up because I remember at 13 we lived by our home
23:45We had to move out and lived on our way home so we grew up fast we had to
23:50Become an adult really really quick, so I remember like we had to do our own laundry
23:56We had to make our own meals and get our ready self ready for school
24:00I have to say your mother must be so unbelievably proud of both of you
24:05Yeah, she is
24:06She should be as much as we are
24:08I like that
24:09She should be because we're blinking brilliant
24:11Yeah, as much as we are about here
24:13She's she's the ones that motivate us for getting education all of that as well
24:17Okay, she never had that choice so studying is something like can never stop we're gonna always want more
24:24Honestly, the best the best school in life is is in my view starting a business. Yes
24:29And even success will fail. It's all
24:32Amazing feedback and knowledge and yeah
24:35Failure is feedback and feedback is knowledge and knowledge is power
24:40So
24:43Sometimes it's really hard to say because you really like the people standing in front of you
24:48Oh, wait
24:50And I don't just mean like personally because you are great, but also I like your story. I love your
24:57Tenacity I love that you've you know
25:01You've got hold of life and you've made something of it and I love all of those things
25:05Which is going to make what I'm about to say really hard
25:09I
25:11Think you're in a very vulnerable position
25:13Because if you are right
25:17Then you have got
25:18Competitors just ready to flick a switch yeah with legacy
25:24authority
25:26And if I was a landlord now and I was offered that from somebody with huge legacy who I knew
25:32I knew all about them understood
25:33Know that they've got a history in this I'm probably going to take their rating versus your rating
25:43So I I I don't want to I don't want to say those
25:46Maybe I'll write them maybe I'll write I'll tell you what I'll write them and it make me feel better
25:51I'm really sorry. I don't want to say it
25:54Okay, thanks
25:58Chinette and Shanice
26:01Yeah, it's it's this is this is quite a brutal market
26:08I genuinely love the fact that you're
26:11You're thinking and dancing and you're doing everything you can to come up with a with a business idea
26:17Um
26:19But it's not something for today that I can invest in
26:24I'm going to say that I'm out
26:26But I'm wishing you all the very best go and do something amazing
26:31Thank you
26:34Guys um
26:36I find that to be an entrepreneur
26:40You've got to start with an idea
26:42Definitely
26:43So you got a tick there
26:45Right
26:46However
26:49You've got to think the idea through
26:51Yeah
26:53And I get the impression that you guys are very excited about this
26:57You're trying to solve a problem that you faced yourself
27:00You haven't actually put yourself in a position looking at it as a business point of view
27:07And that's what concerns me
27:10So therefore I'm out
27:12Thank you
27:15Chinette and Shanice
27:19I've listened to everything that you've said
27:22There's just huge alarm bells going off in my head
27:28So it's with a heavy heart I have to say I just I don't believe you are going to succeed
27:33in this market with this business
27:35model
27:36So I'm really sorry but I'm out
27:39Thank you
27:43Last one
27:45How are you feeling?
27:46Okay
27:47We're always optimistic
27:50Inspiration creates inspiration and your mother was clearly an inspiration and she created you
27:54Thank you
27:55Two inspirations
27:58As an investor I look at this business and I try and find the path for me making a return
28:02Yeah
28:03And I can't see that path for me making a return anytime in the short term at least
28:09So I'm not going to invest
28:13But I'm going to make you an offer
28:16Which is I would love the opportunity to mentor both of you
28:19Because I think there's a ton of potential there and whether it's this business
28:23You win out on the next business what I know for sure is you two are going to win at
28:26life
28:27That's amazing
28:29That's even better
28:31Because at least we will build and grow to the level that we want to go
28:34Can I have a hug?
28:35I really want to give you a hug
28:36Yes please
28:37I got emotional
28:38Such a sweetheart
28:39Well done
28:39Thank you
28:40Well done honestly
28:41So so proud of you
28:42And don't cry
28:44So no deal for an emotional Shanice and Shanette
28:57But while they may be leaving the den without the 50,000 pounds they were originally seeking
29:03Why am I crying? I wasn't even crying it just had to come
29:07This has been anything but a wasted journey
29:10That is a wonderful gift to give them
29:13They'll give me a lot as well
29:15I think sometimes I don't realise that with mentorship relationships
29:17You get just as much back in return
29:19Yeah
29:21We wanted somebody who has a track record to push it in the right direction
29:25Definitely that's the best thing you can ask for
29:43Oh bloody hell
29:45I know
29:47I've got a little I've got a little note from my son
29:51That you
29:51Oh nice
29:52Yeah just in my pocket
29:53Oh
29:54What's it say?
29:56It says you you do well dad
29:59My name is William Watt and my business is all about a new type of adventure over land and water
30:06Oh
30:08Anybody being called water swimming?
30:10No but I've seen you do it
30:11It's really good
30:12You've done it with your mum
30:12Yeah my mum loves it
30:15You've never done cold water swimming too
30:16Never fancied it
30:18I like to get off a yacht
30:21Have a little swim come back have lunch
30:24Not quite the same as being in a lake up north on Boxington or whatever
30:28I want to be going up north on a lake don't worry about that
30:31Sounds just like me
30:34Right here we go
30:36Game on
30:47Hello dragons
30:49Hi
30:50My name's Will
30:52This is Lauren
30:53Hi
30:54The business I run is called above below
30:57And over the last three four years we've been developing a new outdoor activity
31:03We call it cross country swimming
31:05We call it cross country swimming
31:06What we do is we combine the above which is a hike with a swim
31:11The below
31:13When you combine these two things
31:16There's a magic happens
31:18An alchemy
31:20There's all of the mental health benefits of being outside
31:23Then you've got all the euphoria of being immersed in cold water
31:26So our objective is to get as many people as possible to enjoy this activity
31:32And we do that by being the first and we think the best
31:36At building the routes
31:38The events
31:40And the kit
31:42That makes this whole activity practical accessible possible
31:49Events we've had two thousand people do our events
31:52And we host a sort of slightly infamous event in London where you run and swim during the winter through
31:59all the parks and ponds
32:01It's called the swimmer
32:07So what Lauren's doing is transforming with our rock raft
32:11This is the first product we made and we know it's a niche
32:15But it's patented it does what it says
32:19It's a raft for your rucksack
32:22And then around that over the last 12 months we've started to build some other
32:25Bits of kit that make that transition to land to water a bit more comfortable
32:29A bit more accessible so
32:32When you've been swimming warm up your head and your trunk
32:36So we've made a hat
32:37Will this is supposed to be a pitch not a story
32:41So be really clear on what you're pitching
32:43Is it the product or is it the activity or
32:46Yeah so it's our whole business is
32:49How to get more people to do it and we make the kit and the
32:53Routes to make it possible
32:55So how much do you want and what percent?
32:57Yes, so we've sold 20 percent of our stuff all over the world
33:03So we think what we can do for our sort of slightly
33:06We're small we're small
33:07You haven't answered my question
33:09So what's your question? Sorry
33:11How much are you asking for?
33:12We are asking for a hundred thousand pounds
33:14All right, five percent of the business
33:15All right, that's better
33:16Yeah
33:17And with your help we think we can grow this niche
33:21And that's what we want to do
33:22Is that the end of your pitch or do you want to introduce what you're going to do
33:25A demonstration or what is what is going on now?
33:27So this is what lauren's done. We're going to put this in the water so you can see it floats
33:32great
33:34You can now set off for a swim and then you get to the other side you've got all your
33:37kit with you
33:38It unlocks the landscape to new adventures
33:42A protracted pitch from fresh air fiend will what who's seeking one hundred thousand pounds in return for a five
33:50percent share in his company
33:52Thank you. Thank you. Thank you lauren
33:54Peter jones is first to take the plunge with the questions
34:02Will um
34:05I don't often say this but your pitch was awful
34:09oh
34:11There didn't seem to be anything there that you could hold on to that actually says this is an amazing
34:16product for this reason
34:19This is who is going to buy it. This is why we're going to be successful. Hmm. I don't understand
34:25this
34:26What is the business that you're pitching?
34:30Um as I tried to so strategically we have roots
34:34Which is really important. I mean what we're doing is in a way your market making
34:39This is a new activity that as a you're doing it again. Will
34:42What's the business
34:44roots
34:46What does roots do those people where you can go roots is a race race? It's a race
34:51It's like if you're in mountaineering you need to when you go out
34:55Sorry roots is you have this most bizarre way of answering questions which doesn't answer them, right?
35:02What's roots?
35:04Is it a race?
35:06No roots are roots that you can swim and hike okay, so roots are roots that you can swim and
35:11hike
35:11Then you have and then events are things that we host okay, and then the third part is product is
35:17product
35:21So will
35:23It's okay
35:24I'm not going to ask you too many questions about how this all works because there's an expert amongst one
35:30of our dragons
35:31I don't know if we'd call me an expert just because I've been out lakeswimming a couple of times
35:34But I absolutely love that you would put me in the expert field when there's an expert here
35:40Compared to me she'd be an expert
35:43So let's just start what proportion in the first year of your sales was the event and what proportions was
35:51product?
35:53Yeah, so 2019 I mean we're not doing this properly at this point the thing that's funding it is actually
35:58the swimmer event in london
36:00All right, it got very popular. I appreciate that. We would put it in this. I just want some numbers
36:062020 26k revenue
36:088k loss
36:10Yeah, the end of 2020 we crowdfunded
36:14So how much have you raised?
36:16So we raised 328,000
36:19328
36:212021
36:2356k revenue
36:25minus 40 loss
36:27Yep
36:28And 22 to 23
36:29Yeah, 55k revenue and minus 180 loss
36:40So I'm assuming
36:42You've got a valuation of 2 million. Yeah
36:45Hold on. Did you miss that last number by the way because that made me gasp. Yeah minus 180 net
36:51I'm gonna. I'm gonna say you've got a valuation of 2 million. Yeah
36:55So I'm assuming somewhere you got 1.8 in cash
37:01No
37:03So what are you valuing at 2 million though? What part of the because the roots you could you know
37:07You're not valuing roots at 2 million. I don't imagine you're valuing the races
37:11Which you said only 2,000 people have attended at 2 million. So is it this floating device you're valuing
37:16at 2 million?
37:17And I to me the value is in we've created a whole new category of activity
37:23We've created a worldwide
37:25Patented product that doesn't have any competitors at all
37:29What's the patented product?
37:32The ruck raft
37:33But it won't be patented that's just going to be a design patent
37:37Yeah, a design
37:38But that's that's worthless
37:40Hmm
37:42What have you got a patent on?
37:44The whole of the ruck rafted kit
37:45The design of it
37:47So if I change a few things of that I can still bring out the same product
37:51You would have to make it heavier
37:52Why couldn't it be lighter?
37:54Because anything below is it would infringe the patent
37:58So this is the thing worth 2 million?
38:01I think no, I would I would say that the whole
38:06Lifestyle business and brand around the thing and what it enables
38:10In the same way that patagonia started making carabiners that enabled climbing and then grew
38:15That's where we want to get
38:17How big is your brand in terms of gimme community size?
38:205,000 instagram
38:25I don't think that's patagonia
38:27Not yet, no
38:29Not yet, no
38:31I think this is i've been in the den for three years now
38:33I think this is the steepest valuation i've ever seen
38:36Yeah in relation to the value that i see before me and the business i see before me
38:4255k revenue you made you lost almost 200k profit last year and the business is worth 2 million
38:49Yeah
38:51That is i mean not to use one of peter's phrases but that's cuckoo land
38:56That's really something
38:58It doesn't make sense to me so i'm going to say that i'm out
39:04Will
39:06I still sit here really bewildered
39:10This this is i'm going to relay to you what this looks like sitting here in this chair
39:15A business that's not just failing to grow it's actually going slightly backwards and then when you raise some money
39:21from crowdfunding
39:22You managed to make a 40 000 loss into 180 000 loss
39:28So at what point does it make money?
39:32Well i mean
39:34It would make money so can i just talk about in sales terms
39:37It'd be better if you answer the questions that i ask you
39:39If we sold a thousand units of the body warmer and the rug raft we break even at around a
39:43revenue of 300
39:44And when will that be?
39:46Year five we think
39:48It'll take us five years
39:49So by year five i've recouped all of the losses that you've made so far
39:53Yes and we've got a business
39:54Does that sound like a good investment to you?
39:58I think it i think in all honesty i think it probably depends on what type of investment you're looking
40:02for
40:02We know we know sorry well i'm looking for an investment that makes a return
40:08On my investment yeah
40:10Listen well you're actually seeing like a really nice guy
40:13Okay
40:15But this is a really bad pitch
40:18There's just given me no reason to invest so i'm afraid i won't be will i'm out
40:26Well let me tell where i stand right um you seem like a very nice guy
40:31But to me listening to you you're like a raft stuck in the middle of the sea that i wish
40:37way to go
40:39So therefore i'm not going to give you a lifeline and i'm out
40:49Um without being brutal this is a really unfocused pitch
40:54Yeah
40:55This pitch should have been very much predicated on
40:59I've created a global patented inflatable rucksack
41:05And the reason why i've done that is because 10 to 20 000 people are out swimming up and down
41:11just in the uk alone
41:14And they don't have this product
41:17And they're all going to want it
41:20And then go to by the way i know it's going to be successful because i run trails at the
41:26moment
41:26From land's end to john o' groats
41:28And everybody wants to buy this
41:32You've explained the rationale
41:36You've explained what it is you've explained why people will want it
41:44And you didn't do that
41:47Yeah
41:48And you haven't given yourself a chance
41:52So for that reason i'm out
41:56But i just hope you take a lot away today because
42:00You could have something
42:02Yeah
42:03No i think that's a beautiful description of what i was trying to get across and i wish i had
42:08done that
42:12Will
42:13i loved your pitch
42:15i enjoyed every word i was right there with you i genuinely did look i wanted to invest in this
42:21business so bad with my heart didn't even
42:24Let my head get a look in because i was so excited i thought i can do this i can
42:28get on board with him really passionate about it
42:31And then i'm sat there listening to these guys and i'm thinking by they're being a bit mean today
42:37But you've got to think about your audience
42:42One out of the five of us was potentially into this
42:46And to everybody else's point you've done a terrible job of selling the business
42:53You've sold the dream but you haven't sold the investment
42:58Yeah
42:59So i'm going to say i'm out
43:02And i know it's been a tough time but i hope you've had a lot of learning from it
43:06Yeah we have thanks will well done well good luck with all
43:10Thank you
43:12Will leaves the den with plenty of advice but no investment
43:19I'm a bit deflated
43:25Started badly not worse
43:28Peter was just right out the gate was like right that was the worst i've ever seen
43:31i was like oh man
43:33But you've got to do these things you've got to put yourself under the scrutiny
43:37What doesn't kill you makes you stronger really
43:52Well there we go
43:57I'm Derry and i'm from Wigan
44:01You aren't really scary here
44:04I've created a unique experience based in a woodland
44:07I think the dragons are going to love it
44:09Your picture's just a bit off there
44:12There you go it's better
44:14My journey so far has been amazing every day is exciting every day something new
44:18I'm like a 12 year old playing about in the woods again building dens
44:24You're never too old to play in the trees trees
44:29I mean there's an age where you go come on get out of the trees
44:31Do you know what i mean
44:33And then there's an age where you get back in the trees
44:35There we go
44:41Now the nerves kick
44:55Hello dragons my name's Derry green i'm the owner and founder of the secret garden glamping
45:00I'm here today to look for an investment of a hundred thousand pounds for a five percent equity stake in
45:05my business
45:07The secret garden glamping is a multi-award winning five-star luxury glamping site based in a beautiful four acre
45:13woodland
45:14It all started in the first lockdown of 2020 stuck at home with my two young children
45:19I had to come up with new and exciting ways each day to keep them entertained
45:23The first day we decided to have a camping trip in the garden
45:26It was great fun but waking up on the wet grass in the morning wasn't very exciting
45:30That day i decided to build a deck to camp on for the evening
45:34As days turned into months i just kept building a bit more each day with the kids
45:38And by the end of the first lockdown we created what i now know to be a glamping site
45:43Whilst on my journey i kept updating my own social media with what i was up to with the kids
45:47each day
45:48It went viral and i had people contacting me asking if they could book the unit for a holiday
45:53At the time it seemed crazy but with nothing to lose i thought why not list it online
45:58Once listed within the first three days it was fully booked for two years in advance
46:03I quickly realized there was a gap in the market for what i produced
46:07We now have nine bespoke units with planning permission for a further four
46:11We've had a hundred percent occupancy since the day we opened with the earliest available weekend being over two years
46:17in advance
46:18With your investment i'd like to open more sites and make the secret garden glamping the go-to brand for
46:23luxury glamping in the uk and abroad
46:27Bespoke glamping units of the brain child of derry green
46:32who's seeking one hundred thousand pounds for a five percent stake in his business
46:38And the entrepreneur's pitch has clearly got peter jones firmly in his camp
46:48Derry what a story yeah absolutely inspiring
46:52did you really build that yourself though everything you see there is is built by me yeah
46:57but then as it's grown and the business has grown i've had to take on more people
47:00and is your background building nope absolutely not
47:04previous to this i used to have a transport company
47:06but i've always been handy and i i hate being bored and you built that in your garden
47:11the first one yeah and then as we've expanded now we've expanded into the woodland
47:16and what did it cost to put that together so far i've invested
47:21just over half a million now in building everything and that's your money so that's come from the the revenue
47:28from the business wow
47:30wow so give me an idea of the income now so for this year uh we're going to do 1
47:36.1 million
47:36in revenue with a gross of just under 880 000 and a net of around 470 000. god derry this
47:45is outstanding
47:46i love this thank you honestly
47:50i've actually gone quite clammy
47:55i almost don't want to ask you any questions just go straight to an offer
48:00by all means do so that'll be fine
48:03derry hi hi um you won't be surprised i've got questions it's an industry i spent my entire life
48:09in yep so what's your season 365 days a year okay and you've got 100 occupancy for the year
48:17coming up at weekends and where are you at midweeks so our midweek occupancy is fully booked for the
48:23next 18 months in advance oh my goodness well my next question is going to be tariffs yeah because
48:29the rule we always said is if it's booking too fast and too far in advance we're probably not
48:34charging enough money so what do your tariffs look like so obviously they will fluctuate through the
48:40season uh so i don't do that at the beginning the reason being i set this up for me and
48:47my children
48:47um and and it's always grated on me that that people try and capitalize on on when children are off
48:54school so my rate is flat across the whole year whether it be summer holidays whether it be winter
49:01so for 2023 the average nightly rate is 225 pounds a night and for 2024 the average nightly rate is
49:08245
49:09pounds a night you must know that is way too cheap yeah you could double your prices and probably so
49:17and i guess you are making a conscious decision to have the prices where they are absolutely it just
49:22didn't sit right with me dary i i i think you're great yeah this could have gone one way or
49:30the other
49:30with me you know you could have walked in and i could have thought what a disaster you know or
49:36you could
49:36have walked in and made me feel the way that you've made me feel which is this is really exciting
49:43you've got a completely fresh set of eyes and there is a lot of complacency around the industry
49:49and it's an industry i spent my life in but it felt like we were cutting we're the first people
49:54ever
49:54to have an online booking system so we were driving the industry but it feels like an industry that gets
49:59dragged kicking and screaming doing the next thing you know it's kind of guys get ahead of the customer
50:05you know do something exciting so i'm going to make you an offer and this doesn't happen very often
50:16but i'm going to offer you all of the money
50:20at what you've asked for wow the five percent of the business wow thank you
50:28very i tell you now i was going to make you an offer from the minute you walked in after
50:34you
50:34described the business and having met you and having listened to you i think you'd be a great person
50:41to work with you really would you've just got an amazing gift that not many people have
50:52so i'm going to offer you all of the money for what you've asked for so i'm going to offer
50:59you a
50:59hundred thousand pounds for five percent thank you
51:07derry i i love this sort of stuff i take the kids camping i'm watching that video thinking it just
51:16looks amazing and you i think you have such a vision of where you're going to take this business
51:24and i would love nothing more to be involved
51:30so i'm also going to offer you all of the money at the rate that you've asked for the five
51:35percent
51:37thank you um dairy
51:43i may not be in the hospitality business but i'm in the property business and i think that's where i
51:50can help and i'm going to make you an offer i'll give you all of the money for five percent
51:57okay thank you for your offer
52:03how you feeling
52:06honestly i'm i'm trying to keep it together now it genuinely it's it's okay to show how you feel
52:16derry i'm going to tell you where i am as well it's funny because i'm like i'm
52:21i don't want to say that but i feel really proud of you for some reason
52:25because like you're such a decent bloke and for you to have created something so wonderful from
52:29such an authentic story of trying to provide something for your children and for you of all
52:33people to be successful because of that is amazing to the point where i think i've taken my dragon hat
52:40off a little bit here because obviously with her background and everything else deborah is just
52:48perfect for this and um i just don't think i just don't think i'd be the right dragon for you
52:57i don't think i'd have the level of passion you definitely wouldn't be the right dragon
53:00no unsurprising so are you out um so with that i'm going to wish you the very very best
53:07but i'm going to say that i'm out thank you um can i take it with you go it's that
53:16time i've always
53:17wanted to do this dairy has four competing bids to mull over
53:26with peter jones sarah davies tuka suleiman and deborah meaden all offering a hundred thousand pounds
53:35in return for a five percent stake in his business
53:47so thank you for all your time and and obviously for the office
53:53deborah when you started talking then what you said was exactly right it feels like
54:00sometimes it feels like i'm i'm insane i guess because i can see it so clearly and trying to
54:06explain it to other people who are still doing it's like yeah it's like off the shelf lodges
54:11bang them in together yeah it does and then for you to sit there and just validate everything that
54:16i think in my head on a daily basis just yeah it got me there and how you just said
54:22is exactly how i
54:23think and if you're thinking the same i'd love to accept your offer i am so pleased because i genuinely
54:29let's do it well done you delight for dairy well done mate take care who leaves the den with the
54:37hundred thousand pounds he was originally seeking after bagging the backing of a dragon with a wealth
54:43of experience in his chosen field wow could i give you a hundred grand for two and a half percent
54:52you're
54:52you've got a free investment i wouldn't give away two and a half percent i'm not sure i would
54:58i still can't get it i'll get it together the whole time are you crying because you're happy with him
55:11or because you didn't get the investment i'm just so happy for him it's lovely
55:31next time on dragon's den oh isn't it good we've got a dragon that knows a lot about football and
55:37gary neville here what's the extra 20 000 for tuker it's a bit of spice that's like dracula you live
55:44in
55:44a very different space to the space that i live in a council house in withington i like them sort
55:49of
55:49muggles you're absolutely incredible you actually make me a little emotional but what does it matter
55:53if they have a little hanky-panky what's wrong with that that's different that's a hanky-panky pod
55:57do you need planning permission for that is that the first ever entrepreneur to get six offers
56:01yes yes wow that's a record
56:27yes
56:29yes
56:30yes
56:31yes
56:31yes
56:32yes