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In this edition of To The Point, anchor Preeti Chaudhary moderates a discussion on Congress leader Rahul Gandhi's push for caste enumeration and dedicated provisions for the Other Backward Class (OBC) category ahead of upcoming state elections in Uttar Pradesh.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Treeti Chaudhary. Two big debates lined up for you. Allow me to
00:04take you through the headlines.
00:08Big statement by U.S. Ambassador to India, Sergio Gaur, during his first visit to Shrinagar, calls Jammu and Kashmir
00:14an important part of India.
00:16Does travel warning to JNK likely to be downgraded?
00:25Ex-Delhi Minister Satendra Jain sent to judicial custody in Delhi, Jalboad's camp. ACB flags irregularities in sewage plant tender.
00:34BJP takes collection agent jibe. ARP cries political vendetta, says charge sheet was filed in December 2025, FIR in 2023.
00:44Why the arrest now?
00:49Big scoop from Mobi Cabinet meet. All ministers were ranked according to their social media performance.
00:55Prime Minister held number one position on the list. Ministers told to increase their social media footprint.
01:10Big population push by Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay extends maternity leave for third child to 365 days.
01:17BJP opposes moves, says government policies cannot pressurize women to bear third child.
01:27Kolkata Hotel fire tragedy kills nine, six men, two women, one child amongst dead.
01:32BJP claims illegal hotel built under TMC rule, says multiple lapses in Kolkata building.
01:46All right, we have stopped.
01:47Focus is what Rahul Gandhi spoke on the OBC card, once again playing it for the state of Uttar Pradesh,
01:56clearly.
01:57Leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, Rahul Gandhi, has now turned the OBC question into a direct political challenge to
02:04the Modi government.
02:04All of this coming in right before six months of elections in Uttar Pradesh, where the OBC population is a
02:11sizable chunk.
02:12At a meeting of the Congress OBC department, the leader of opposition questioned the caste enumeration process,
02:19asking why scheduled caste and scheduled tribes have dedicated categories while there is no separate provision for OBCs.
02:26He also urged Congress OBC leaders to take the issue to the ground and then raise the political stakes with
02:31a pointed question.
02:32If students' protest could force the government to respond, what happens if the much larger OBC community takes to the
02:40streets?
02:41What does this mean before a high-stake battle in 2027, like I pointed out in Uttar Pradesh?
02:47Here's the report.
02:54Leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, Rahul Gandhi, has thrown down a politically explosive challenge to the Modi government.
03:03If OBCs come out on the streets like the students did, will the government be forced to bow?
03:10At a meeting of Congress's OBCs department on Monday, Rahul Gandhi questioned the ongoing caste census process.
03:19He asked if scheduled castes and scheduled tribes have dedicated categories, then why is there no equivalent provision for OBCs?
03:26At a meeting, Rahul's message to Congress's OBCs leaders was blunt.
03:31Go to the ground, raise awareness, tell OBC voters that there is no separate OBC column in the caste enumeration.
03:38According to sources, the leader of opposition in Lok Sabha argued that the government initially resisted a caste census
03:45and that it moved only after political pressure from the OBC community.
03:51And then came the comparison designed to make headlines.
03:55Pointing to recent student protests, Rahul Gandhi said that when young people come onto the streets, the government has to
04:03respond.
04:04He warned that if an OBC movement takes to the streets at the same scale, the Modi government will have
04:10to give in.
04:38Needless to say, that is a major manifestation of the OBC.
04:40escalation. Because OBCs are not a small electoral block, they represent nearly half of India's
04:47population according to widely cited estimates. But the BJP has hit back. BJP OBC Morcha Chief
04:55Amar Palmaurya has called Rahul Gandhi's remarks provocative and has accused him of trying to
05:01incite the OBC community.
05:13The government of the city has been released on the topic of the city of India and the
05:18government of the city has been released. They are the first of all, the government
05:25has been working with him. The government has been making the OBC in the government of
05:29the city of India and he has been working with the government of the city of India.
05:32The government of Rahul Gandhi has now the new formula that we will do everything in
05:49So what does this mean before the big battles that lie ahead in 2027?
05:55For the BJP, the challenge is to prevent Congress from monopolizing the OBC narrative.
06:01For Congress, the calculation is equally clear.
06:04Turn caste censors into a question of representation, power and political justice.
06:09Rahul Gandhi's betting that his OBC pitch will take Congress back into the heart of India's social coalition.
06:16The real test, however, is whether this remains a political slogan or becomes an actual OBC movement on the ground.
06:24With Mossimi Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
06:31All right, for pure journalistic purpose, let's focus right now on the state of Uttar Pradesh, which is up for
06:36elections in the next six months.
06:37I'll ask my producer to pull out our graphics in terms of representation.
06:4139% of the population in UP comes under the OBC category.
06:46Take away the 10%, which is the other vote bank, largely seen aligned to the Samajwadi party.
06:52You still have 29% for the taking.
06:55Till now, we'll also follow these graphics with our breakup on how the OBC vote has played out,
07:01especially in the state of Uttar Pradesh, not just in 2017, but importantly in 2022, when the last elections took
07:08place.
07:09So, through that graphic, one can easily understand that data slice that the 29% of the 39% of
07:17OBC in Uttar Pradesh has largely gone the BJP way.
07:21So, the Congress now looking to try and ignite a fire in that 29% that takes away from the
07:29BJP vote.
07:30Will it is the big question.
07:32I want to quickly cut across to our political panelists.
07:34All of you will get a two-minute timer to put your points forward.
07:39Joining me, Rajat Sethi, political analyst.
07:42Ashutosh, political analyst.
07:43Rahul Verma, fellow center for policy research.
07:47I want to, before we get in, let's get in a bit of data and we'll pull out all our
07:51figures in terms of how Uttar Pradesh played out in 2022 and 2017.
07:55And I want to bring in Rahul Verma on this conversation, just purely for academic purpose, Rahul.
08:00For someone who studied the OBC vote very carefully and the next election in Uttar Pradesh will be important.
08:0739% of the OBC population in UP take away 10% of the Yadavs.
08:12You still have 29% for the taking, which was largely with the BJP.
08:15Let's get those graphics out there on how UP voted in 2022 and 2017.
08:21Can we play those graphics?
08:22Go ahead, Rahul.
08:28You're on mute, Rahul.
08:30You're on mute.
08:33I am not on mute.
08:35Now we can hear you.
08:36Go ahead.
08:36Go ahead.
08:36Okay.
08:37I'm just asking, thank you, Preeti, first of all, for having me.
08:40But I didn't see a question in your remark.
08:43You described the situation, but what is the direct question for me?
08:47How did it play out?
08:49And why do you think the Congress is making a play for that crucial OBC vote ban, keeping
08:54in mind on the caste census, asking for equal representation in the past?
08:58No, for a very simple reason.
09:00Because Congress Party feels that in 2024, the kind of votes and seats it got in Uttar Pradesh,
09:09along with Samajwadi Party, is got to do with the issues that it raised on social justice,
09:16reservation, and what it couched at Samhitan Khatri mein hai.
09:19No political party in UP can come to power without getting a sizable section of OBC vote.
09:26BJP's rise since 2014 across North India is based on their performance among OBC voters
09:34because it's a very, very large section.
09:36And so, in some ways, Congress Party understand, both perhaps for ideological reasons, but also
09:42for very practical electoral consideration, that unless they manage to mobilize other than
09:49Yadav votes in sort of like alliance with Samajwadi Party, they don't have a good chance
09:54in Hindi heartland and especially in Uttar Pradesh.
09:57So, that's, I think, very electoral politics, but I don't want to take away that this may
10:03be a new ideological turn that Congress Party has been taking for the last three, four years.
10:09You may remember that Congress Party has never been comfortable with the caste question.
10:14OBC politics, in some ways, bypassed Congress politics.
10:19In 2006, when UPA was in power, Arjun Singh, as HRD minister, extended 27 percent quota to
10:27OBCs in higher education, get benefits of that.
10:31So, maybe Rahul Gandhi, in his wisdom, thinks that without mobilizing both for ideological
10:38reasons, but as well for electoral purposes, this is very important.
10:43All right, OK, you know, we're going to pull the graphics out in just about a minute, but
10:47Rajat, I want to get you into this conversation, followed by Ashutosh, because the play where
10:51the caste dynamics or conundrum is concerned in Uttar Pradesh is interesting, because here
10:59you have, for the first time, the upper caste, which is, at least with what our reporters tell
11:04us on ground, not so happy with the BJP, especially with what is the current Thakurwad trend.
11:10On the other hand, you have the OBCs now, which Rahul Gandhi is trying to make a big play
11:15off.
11:18See, that is true.
11:19To some extent, I think, because of 10 years of anti-incumbency, certain angst across various
11:25communities would be building up.
11:27But trying to portray it as a community-wide angst against the government would be a bit
11:34far-stretched.
11:35But I think, clearly, Rahul Gandhi and his statement is an opportunistic statement, no
11:40doubt about it.
11:40With six months, he has to go with a strategy.
11:44Even one of the strategies that he feels is OBC and re-energizing some of the OBC bases
11:51around the Pichada, Dalit, and the PDA, I think the minority, which is the Samajwadi
12:00Party and the Congress Alliance's core agenda.
12:03See, but the problem with this is that, in my opinion, that it is not as easy as a transactional
12:10statement when you step in and try to make a remark in a shoot and scooch sort of a manner,
12:16make a remark without following it up and just moving past it.
12:19You cannot galvanize the Pichada communities in a state like UP, which is very, very politically
12:26sensitive and aware.
12:27Just by a passing remark, you need to extend your intent into action.
12:33There is a clear example of Karnataka state where, since almost a decade, all your chief
12:38ministers have just sat over it, did nothing about it.
12:41There is absolutely no walking the talk intent behind what Rahul Gandhi says.
12:46So, people see through it.
12:48My simple point is that, only because a UP election is here just six months before,
12:53you want everybody to hit the roads.
12:55How transactional can that be?
12:56You did the same thing in Bihar.
12:58Just right around the corner of Bihar elections, you said that I will do this.
13:01No fair point.
13:02But where Bihar is concerned.
13:04But, you know, to come in on that, and I'll ask you a counter before I bring in Ashutosh.
13:07It's really not just coming in at the back of Uttar Pradesh election.
13:10The OBC, you know, you might say the OBC card or the point has not been just bought
13:16up.
13:16Rahul Gandhi has been, to be fair to him, speaking about it for a while now.
13:19No, no, no.
13:19He did not do that.
13:19He's been talking about the cast.
13:20He did not do it before Tamil Nadu elections.
13:22He did not do it before the West Bengal elections.
13:24It's a very timeliness and a timetable of elections.
13:28Come in, and he suddenly wakes up to issues.
13:30And the problem, strategically speaking, is that he does not take it to any logical conclusion.
13:35The moment, because clearly, vote chodi and SIR is not an issue in UP election,
13:40because SIR is already settled in that state.
13:42So, what next issue to pick?
13:44Okay.
13:44It is going back to his old record, which is OBC and trying to awaken them politically.
13:49It does not work like this.
13:51Today, he made a passing remark.
13:52After a while, you will not see for the next 3-4 months this OBC remark ever from his mouth.
13:57And again, suddenly with the election, wave will heat.
14:00So, you are saying it might be an old record, but he has not been consistent with it.
14:03Rajat says, Ashutosh, that there is no logical conclusion to what Rahul Gandhi rakes up every now and then,
14:09when elections come to call.
14:11The fact is, if there is a logical conclusion, this could mean trouble for the BJP.
14:15If there is a logical conclusion to it.
14:19Preeti, you also believe that Rahul Gandhi is not consistent on this issue.
14:23I am really surprised.
14:24Because Rahul Gandhi is the only person who is consistent on this issue.
14:26It is nothing to argue that I am coming to the picture, Ashutosh.
14:29Make your point.
14:30Speak to Rajat, not to me.
14:33So, let me again reiterate.
14:35I am really surprised that somebody is saying that Rahul Gandhi is not consistent on this issue.
14:38I remember Rahul Gandhi making for the first time when he rose the issue of caste census in Kolar Rally
14:45in Karnataka, almost five years back.
14:48And since then, he has been very, very consistent on that.
14:51And he virtually forced BJP and the RSS to come down and to accept fact that caste census is really
14:58important.
14:59And you remember, first time when Mohan Bhagwat met with Narendra Modi in the Prime Minister's office was after the
15:05Palgam killings.
15:08And then, before that, RSS had made a statement in South India, the Suri Lambekar, that we are in favour
15:16of the caste census, but not for the political reason, but for the welfare reasons.
15:20And then, Narendra Modi, in the midst of the terrorist attack, he openly said that, yes, we are for the
15:27caste census.
15:28That the demand for the caste census was first raised by Nitish Kumar.
15:31Then it was taken over with Rahul Gandhi.
15:33And it is one of the reasons that in 2024 election that the BJP cut a sorry figure in Uttar
15:38Pradesh.
15:39And I can tell you why.
15:40See, nobody asked these questions that why the upper caste vote 79 percent in UP to the BJP,
15:46and why 92 percent Muslims vote for the India Ghat Bandhan in UP.
15:51The fact of the matter is, the fight is that Yadav, the MY plus, and the BJP fight is upper
15:59caste plus.
16:00So, if they can make an enroads into other than Yadav OBC communities, BJP and the Samajwadi Party in the
16:09Congress both wants other than the OBC communities.
16:11And there is a drop of almost 6 to 7 percent that non-Yadav OBC had voted in comparison to
16:192022 when the BJP got into the majority.
16:22And in 2024, BJP was way behind than the Samajwadi Party in the Congress because only 59 percent other OBCs
16:32voted for the BJP.
16:35So, BJP made an enroads into the OBCs, but their contribution is slightly going down, and that's a matter of
16:44worry for the BJP.
16:45Well, we don't really know if it's slightly going down right now, Ashutosh, because the bulwark of the BJP's vote,
16:50at least if you look at the trajectory, and we'll put out the figures.
16:53There has been a steady increase from 2014, if you look at the Lok Sabha figures, 2014, 2019 to 2024.
17:00It's come largely from the OBC vote bank.
17:02You now look at the micro data, and it's a good time to bring in Rahul Verma.
17:06Even in that, you take away the 10 percent of the Yadav vote from the OBC chunk, which is 39.
17:12The rest also has chalk block gone with the BJP.
17:15Over 60 percent of that vote has come to the Bharatiya Janata Party in Uttar Pradesh as early as the
17:212022 election.
17:22But Rahul Verma, you know, you can look at it and compare data with it, but there are certain political
17:27points that are playing out right now.
17:29You can call it flashpoints in the state of Uttar Pradesh, where there is this whole, you know, angst of
17:37the upper caste.
17:38There was Dalit consolidation, which we saw in Lok Sabha 2024, which seemingly in pockets had gone with the India
17:47Alliance.
17:48Then you had largely, you know, that Thakur Waad playing out as well.
17:52How do you see all of that in terms of numbers make an interesting dynamic going into UP elections?
17:59So if you look at the situation in UP right now, and especially with the CJP protest happening in the
18:06background, it would seem that this is going to be a much, much tighter contest.
18:11As of now, we don't know what happens in seven to eight months.
18:14And the reason is threefolds.
18:16First, as you pointed out, that there is some discontent brewing among BJP's own core base.
18:23Now, it could be Thakur Waad, upper caste, as you want to see, or it could be also sort of
18:29like middle class students and their parents not happy with examination leaks and other kind of thing.
18:35So first is there is discontent among your own base.
18:38Second, I think where Congress Party might see an opening and we don't know how that is going to play
18:43out.
18:44Because while BJP conceded on the caste census, now the new gadget notification that has come, which is not going
18:54to count caste, basically the OBCs and the general category as everyone thought the caste census is going to be.
19:03So virtually, in some ways, the idea of caste census has been killed through this gadget notification.
19:11And so what the statement that you have been showing on your screen, that Rahul Gandhi thinks that at this
19:17moment of time, if you have CJP and another kind of protest by OBCs on this question of caste census
19:24and other things, then the BJP is going to be in real trouble.
19:28And so that's his political wisdom, whether it will play out or not is another matter.
19:33Third point that I want to make is that, see, between 2014 and 2019, BJP definitely made inroads among OBCs
19:42and Dalits.
19:43But in 2024 data, while BJP still gets a large chunk of OBC votes and Dalit vote, there was a
19:51decline between 2019 and 2024.
19:53And so what SP and Congress would hope that they managed to get up like one more slice of it
20:01and that will put BJP in real trouble in 2027 UP election, especially when they are also like they have
20:09been in power there for 10 years.
20:11Right. And so like there are going to be a lot of questions on governance and infrastructure and everything.
20:16They have been power in center. They have been in power in state.
20:20And so they have a lot more to answer to voters what has happened in past 10 years.
20:25Right. But also the lay of the land is very different than what it was in 2024 and the kind
20:30of goodwill that there is also of Yogi Adityanath, where law and order is concerned, is also very, very different.
20:35You know, so even though we are looking at 2024 numbers as well, it's a it's a hard call to
20:41compare both.
20:42But I would like to bring in Ashutosh before I bring in Rajat Sethi into this conversation.
20:45And Ashutosh, usually what does an alliance do?
20:48They try because one would think that it would once again would be the Samajwadi Party and the Congress going
20:53into elections next next year in Uttar Pradesh.
20:57As an alliance, you try and bring a core vote bank that the other one cannot bring.
21:01Upper caste has always been an uphill climb for the Samajwadi Party in Uttar Pradesh.
21:05Many would have suggested that you would have the Congress focus on the upper caste because the Congress has been
21:10able to, if you look at even the 24 elections, been able to garner a bit of the upper caste
21:15vote.
21:15Yet your recent, you know, the people you have given positions to in UP are more or less trying to
21:24pander to what you did in 2024.
21:26You have, you know, Mr. Gautam, who is now made in charge of the Congress, who is a Dalit in
21:33Uttar Pradesh, while you could have got somebody who is upper caste and focus on those points as well.
21:39See, Priti, come what may, the upper caste in UP, which is comprised of almost 21 percent, the Brahmin is
21:45almost 11 percent, Rajput is 8 percent, Kayast and the Banias are something around 2 to 2, 2 and 2
21:52and a half percent.
21:53Come what may, they will not vote for Samajwadi Party in the Congress, they will vote only for the BJP.
21:59So, it's a good strategy on the part of the Congress party because they made Gautam as an in charge
22:06and you know, I tell you why.
22:09But Ashut, look at the 24 figures. Huge chance of the upper caste did go to the Congress.
22:14No, no. That's a misleading, that's a misleading figure. 88 percent Brahmins have voted for the BJP, 86 percent Rajput
22:23has voted for the BJP, 82 percent Baniya has voted for the BJP.
22:26There is, BJP, the upper caste will not come back to the BJP, to the Congress and Samajwadi Party. And
22:33you know why Gautam is important? Because in 2024 Parliament elections, the non-JATA voter, 56 percent non-JATA voters
22:42had voted for the Samajwadi Party and the Congress.
22:45That means there is a clear drift from the BSP towards the Samajwadi Party and the Congress Party and this
22:52is a big failure of the NDA or the BJP in 2024 and that is why they cut such a
22:56sorry figure.
22:57And again, I tell you why the BJP is worried about Khoiri because in 2019, 80 percent Kurmi and the
23:04Khoiri voted for the NDA. In 2022, that slips to 66 percent. In 2024, that further slips to 61 percent.
23:11So, there is a drift amongst the OBC, especially the powerful like Khoiri, going away from the BJP. That's a
23:21major worry. And that's what the Rahul Gandhi is trying to do.
23:24If they could get all these voters which is drifting away from the BJP, then it's a win-win situation
23:29for them.
23:31Okay. Rajat, would you want to come and weigh in that the Congress seemingly playing its cards carefully and right
23:36and this time well in advance, especially before the Uttar Pradesh elections kick in?
23:43Well, they can hold their horses right now and don't jump to fanciful conclusions.
23:49See, Congress has 2 percent vote share, which is pocket change. How does that, I mean, any kind of a
23:55criss-cross analysis, you want to slice and dice this 2 percent, you can reach to any conclusion.
23:59See, it's a party which is more of a burden for the Samajwadi party because they claim 100 seats out
24:05of 400-odd seats.
24:06That is a huge chunk. That pound of flesh is something which completely disturbs the apple cart.
24:12And the Samajwadi party, therefore, is in a very uncomfortable position vis-à-vis the Congress party.
24:19And I think this conflict between the two and the kind of seats that the Congress party always asks for
24:25is actually playing out.
24:26You know, just today itself, I think the member of parliament who belonged to the Congress party and the local
24:32MLE of Samajwadi party were at each other just to ensure that, you know, kiska varchas to chalega.
24:39So this push and pull of tug of war between the two parties will carry on till the last.
24:44You will, you will, you will be surprised that way into the model code, you will see the two parties
24:49not being able to converge.
24:51And this is where I don't see, see Rahul, I mean, you need to have a much more deeper commitment
24:57to any kind of a cause.
24:59Be it an upper caste commitment or a OBC commitment and you have to live with it.
25:03You cannot like a flavor of the ice cream, keep changing the flavor with every season.
25:08That's the problem. See, who will, why should the Kourmis and the Kouris that Ashutosh has been talking about, why
25:15should they trust of all people Rahul Gandhi, who is a Brahman and who has no credentials to show about
25:21any of these OBCs?
25:22What has he done for an OBC movement till date?
25:24Other than, you know, one good day he will wake up and try to see that this is the central
25:28issue of India for the next 10 years and I will vanish the next day.
25:32So this is, I don't see seriousness in this and this is what gets reflected in election results.
25:382024 was a major aberration. Will it continue to be an aberration or will it, will, will the BJP see
25:44some kind of a course correction in their strategy and all that, that needs to be seen.
25:49But I don't think you can draw all the conclusions out of 2024.
25:52We saw Maharashtra, a deep state which went casteist, but look at the assembly elections of what happened in the
25:58state of Maharashtra.
25:59It was a landslide of epic proportions. So you can't discount that as well.
26:04Okay, Rajat, no, you make a fair point, but that's, you know, data is data.
26:07You've got to go by what 2024 Uttar Pradesh election was in Lok Sabha.
26:10And out of that, on the 17 seats that the Congress fought, they converted six.
26:14So the conversion rate was about 40%, where at least Lok Sabha elections were concerned.
26:19But, you know, let me bring in Rahul Verma back into this conversation. Rahul Verma, the fact is, from what
26:24Ashutosh says, that this is perfect play.
26:26But let's look at, again, I'm only looking at 2024 numbers. 16% upper caste vote went to the India
26:32Alliance at that point of time, which was largely the Samajwadi Party and the Congress.
26:37And out of that 16%, nearly all of that went to the Congress Party, not much went to the Samajwadi
26:41Party, number one.
26:42Number two, do you see, in a state that traditionally, where the OBC breakup has been very clear, out of
26:4839%, 10% Yadavs go to the Samajwadi Party and the rest gravitate to the BJP.
26:53Do you see that dynamic change at the back of possibly, you know, what Rahul Gandhi seems to suggest?
27:01So, let me make three points. Let me make three points. First one, I think we are confusing Rahul Gandhi's
27:09posturing on the OBC question just as an electoral strategy.
27:14I said in the beginning that it could also be an ideological stand. The reason this issue came up, because
27:21the gadget notification on caste census came up.
27:24So, yes, it is very much possible that his strategy of, again, bringing the OBC card may not play out
27:31in elections as he and his colleagues would like to do.
27:35But perhaps in his ideological stand, he thinks it is important to raise the caste question. For example, BJP sometimes
27:43may not benefit from Ram Temple issue electorally, but it is not going to leave that issue because it's part
27:49of their ideological commitment.
27:51And so, perhaps there, you know, Congress party has taken a turn. And I kept saying, Congress was not consistent
28:00on the caste question till 2010s. And in fact, it is now taking a turn with Rahul Gandhi.
28:06Well, actually, the Congress has taken a completely diametrically different turn on what Rahul Gandhi had said in 2015.
28:14Also, we don't know whether it will be a successful turn or not. Second question, whenever you look at these
28:18caste breakups, let's not forget, ultimately, the results are also dependent on the turnout among communities.
28:26What you don't understand that, yes, upper caste are not going to vote against BJP. But what if they don't
28:33turn out at all, or they turn out in lesser number?
28:36That also changes the dynamic. You want your core voters not just to be voting for you, but to be
28:43enthusiastic on the ground and saying to everyone that you should vote for it.
28:47So, what is happening at the moment? It may not change the 27 election result.
28:52But it's apples and oranges. You're right. It's apples and oranges, but that's pretty much what happened in Bakipur.
28:58BJP is managing a coalition of extremes in Uttar Pradesh. And there are contradictions in that coalition. That is the
29:05trouble. That is what Rahul Gandhi is trying to exploit.
29:08Exploit. Okay. The crevices in that. I don't have time, but Rajat, you wanted to come in 20 seconds, make
29:13your point, and I'm going to go into work.
29:14See, ideology is something which you live and breathe. If OBC and the causes of OBC is an ideological position
29:22for the Congress Party and for Mr. Rahul Gandhi,
29:25why does that ideology vanish away when it comes to Karnataka? It's a very simple question.
29:30Till he is not able to address these conflicts within his own party's strategies, he will not be able to
29:36run on this issue for greater than a couple of days.
29:39All right. Okay. That's all the time I have for now. Ashutosh has, anyway, logged out, but thank you.
29:44I appreciate all three of you taking the time out. It's something that we will be discussing in time to
29:48come.
29:48With that, viewers, I want to quickly cut across to the other story that we're following very keenly,
29:52and that comes at the back of the arrest of former Delhi Minister, Arm Admi Party leader Satendra Jain,
29:58who was arrested by the Delhi anti-corruption branch, the ACB, along with five others over alleged irregularities
30:05on the tendering process for sewage treatment plant projects of the Delhi Jal Board.
30:11While Satendra Jain has alleged that his arrest is politically motivated because of the coming Punjab polls,
30:17the BJP says law is taking its own course.
30:20On the other hand, this was at the back of an FIR that was filed all the way in 2023,
30:25and the charge sheet was filed in December 2025.
30:29So why the arrest now is a question that we ask.
30:37Former Delhi Minister and trusted Lieutenant of Arm Admi Party founder, Arvind Kejriwal,
30:43Satendra Jain, the Arm Admi Party neta, frequently linked to scams.
30:50On Tuesday, Jain was arrested by the Delhi anti-corruption branch, along with five others, for corruption in Delhi Jal
30:57Board.
30:57The charge against Jain is open manipulation of tendering process for sewage treatment plant projects in Delhi Jal Board.
31:08The agency alleges that tender conditions were manipulated to favour a particular technology provider, Eurotech Environment,
31:15and that Rs 1.52 crore was allegedly routed to former Delhi Jal Board CEO Udith Prakash Rai and his
31:23relatives.
31:27India Today has exclusively accessed the anti-corruption branch's remand plea in the case.
31:33The agency claims that bribes and kickbacks were taken in sewage plant tender,
31:39and that illegal gratification was paid in exchange for favours.
31:43The agency further alleges that Rs 1.95 crore was routed as an illegal payment.
31:52However, the Arm Admi Party and Jain linked his arrest to the Punjab polls,
31:56for which he is the party's co-in-charge.
32:17Jain's arrest sparked a massive political slugfest between the Arm Admi Party and the BJP.
32:25One way, the Russian party is being arrested and is being arrested.
32:32Whether it's a cycle or a Russian or a Russian, or a swast 600 crore,
32:39but in the case, there is no action to do not go.
32:48पर्जाब को है, पर्जाब के अदर से रियल एस्टेट से खुल के उगाही कर रहे हैं।
32:55अरविन केजरिवाल जी की एक मूवी है, उस मूवी का नाम है भरश्टाचार की किताब से फण्फारी कावा पितार है।
33:11He was arrested in jail and what did the BJP say?
33:16He was arrested at Raghav Chaddha.
33:18He was arrested at Raghav Chaddha.
33:24He was arrested at Raghav Chaddha.
33:25He asked him to ask,
33:27you don't have any cases,
33:29we are not afraid of the BJP.
33:32We need to understand that.
33:33We didn't do that.
33:35We didn't do that.
33:39We didn't stand by for two years.
33:40That's why the governing council got back,
33:41when the judge is by doing the job,
33:43that holds five of her holders.
33:47It's cheating on the BJP,
33:51you don't hear your skin on the Python Chinese side.
33:58He's
33:59Forty San Picasso.
34:13The Amadmi Party has also been claiming that Jain was in jail when the tainted tender was finalised
34:19and that he is being falsely implicated.
34:23However, a fact check has revealed that the tender process was on months before Jain was arrested.
34:30It is not the first time Jain has been in jail.
34:33In 2022, when the Amadmi Party leader was behind bars, several videos from his VIP cell came to light,
34:40some even showing him receiving massages from a fellow inmate.
34:46Will Satyendra Jain's arrest and attacks by the BJP influence the Punjab elections?
34:52With Himanshu Mishra and Srishti Oja in Delhi, Bureau Report, India Today.
35:02All right, the latest news break coming in.
35:05Satyendra Jain, the former Delhi minister, has been sent to judicial custody
35:09in what the BJP says and the ACB says is a Delhi Jalboard scam.
35:16Jain's bail application will now be heard on the August 25th.
35:20The court has rejected Satyendra Jain's plea, calling his arrest illegal.
35:26All right, let's cut across right now to Pradeep Bhandari, national spokesperson, BJP.
35:33He's joining us live.
35:35Mr. Bhandari also, congratulations in order.
35:37You are the media co-convener for the BJP newly minted position.
35:42Congratulations there.
35:43But coming back to the moot point, Pradeep Bhandari, the BJP is very, very vociferous in calling this another scam.
35:52But the Amabhmi party says, how is it that the ACB has woken up now, the Anti-Corruption Bureau, Delhi,
36:00because this was an FIR that was lodged all the way in 2023.
36:05Charge sheet was filed in December 2025.
36:07Six months have passed, something that was submitted by the ACB in court today,
36:12that there has been no fresh evidence.
36:14Why the arrest suddenly now?
36:20Well, Pradeep, I will not debate this on political rhetoric.
36:23I will just debate it on certain facts.
36:25A. The charge that it is vindictive is false, because he is not the only person who is arrested.
36:30He is a co-accused apart from five others.
36:32B. The fact that the investigation did not stop between 2024, 11-5-2024,
36:38when the FIA was registered under the Prevention of Corruption Act and now.
36:42So, the investigation was going on.
36:43Had the investigation, when it started in 2024, had arrested Satyam Dajan,
36:48then the charge of vindictiveness could hold prima facie.
36:51So, the investigation has been going on from the past two years, point number three.
36:54Now, what is the essence of the case?
36:56The essence of the case is that when Mr. Jain was the minister convening Delhi Jal board,
37:02in fact, was looking after Delhi Jal board, or was indirectly looking after Delhi Jal board,
37:07you had scenarios of three counts.
37:09A. Whether there was restrictive tendering process which was involved in order to benefit one company,
37:14which is Eurotrek Environment Private Limited.
37:17Because as per the investigative agency, their prima facie recovered electronic evidences
37:21which suggests that members who are close to Mr. Jain exchanged information with individuals
37:27belonging to this company, so that the tendering process could be tailored made in order to
37:33only benefit one company and make it restrictive.
37:36Point number two, the second investigation, second evidence which the investigative agencies
37:40have, prima facie, is they believe that there are proceeds of crime worth more than 17 crore.
37:45So, as per the constitution of India and the Bharatiya Saita, I believe the investigative
37:49agencies have their duty to investigate and since they are arresting Mr. Jain along with
37:54the other accused after two years of investigation, makes the claim of Aam Admi Party that it is
37:59vindictive, is absolutely false.
38:01In just 10 seconds and then I will end.
38:03And Mr. Jain should believe in the investigative agency because in another case, it is the same
38:07investigative agency which filed a closure report and the Aam Admi Party was celebrating
38:12it.
38:12So, the Aam Admi Party cannot pick and choose judgments.
38:15The Aam Admi Party cannot pick and choose cases.
38:17The only truth is that the prima facie, this is corruption against the Aam Admi Party.
38:21And even in the court of public, Preeti, if you recall in Delhi, Mr. K. Jival, when he
38:25came out of Jaiji, he said that, if I am imaandar, then I will vote.
38:28If I will vote, then I will vote.
38:29So, even in the court of public opinion in Delhi, he has been declared a corrupt man.
38:33And I believe the investigative agencies are just acting as per the evidences they have
38:38gathered in the last two years.
38:40But Mr. Bhandari, with whatever the details and the facts that you have given out, were facts
38:44and details and factoids that were available with the ACB all the way from 2023 and 2025.
38:51Something that has been said on record in court today was that there has been no fresh
38:55evidence ever since December 2025 to now.
38:58So, if there has been no fresh evidence and investigation has continued with the same charges
39:05that there were when the charge sheet was filed in 2025, then the question arises, why the
39:11arrest now?
39:12That's why the Amadmi Party says that this is political vendetta because you're six months
39:17away from Punjab election.
39:18You want to keep the co-incharge of Punjab, who is Satendra Jain, out of Punjab at this crucial
39:24time, like you did in Delhi at that time, because later on there was a closure report on it.
39:34Well, if the Amadmi Party believes that there are merits in the argument which it is making,
39:38then it should make the similar arguments when the bail plea of Satendra Jain will be heard
39:42in August.
39:43So, the Amadmi Party should believe in the argument which it is making because this argument is
39:47mere rhetoric and every time you will have an election.
39:50So, that's where the Amadmi Party then should in principle support Prime Minister Rendra Modi's
39:54vision of one nation, one election.
39:56So, whenever the investigative agencies will act, they will not look it from the tangent
40:00of an election, whether it is one year away, six months ago or five months ago.
40:04And in fact, the Amadmi Party should be the last party to speak about vindictiveness because
40:07we have seen how they've abused the copyright acts and they are pulling down one journalist
40:13after the other.
40:13And it's the same party which even ensured that one of the very prominent newspapers was
40:19shut down for a certain time till the time it got relief from Punjab and Haryana High
40:22Court.
40:22I'll just come to the moot point, Priti.
40:24Is what the investigative agency doing, dutiful and legal and reasonable?
40:28Yes.
40:28This is why the court has sent the accused, not just Mr. Jain, but five others for precisely
40:3514 days of judicial custody.
40:37Well, you know, you're bang on where you speak of the hypocrisy of, you know, coming down on
40:42the press.
40:42But that's a different case.
40:43One very quick question, Pradeep, before we let you go.
40:45It was the same time when Raghav Chadha was also the vice president of the Delhi Jalbhod.
40:52At the same time, you had Satendra Jain, who was associated with the Jalbhod.
40:56And that is where the investigation or the wrongdoing is warranted.
41:01And the final person in terms of a signatory would have been Mr. Chadha.
41:08But just because he's with the BJP today, how have the goalposts changed and no arrests
41:13there is another allegation.
41:15Very quickly, sir.
41:19Well, Preeti, if the Aamadmi Party believes that the investigation is not happening in
41:23a just manner, as per 156.3 of CRPC, they can approach the court and ask the court to
41:30direct the investigative agency to question any individual irrespective of political ideologies
41:35in this case.
41:35The moot point here is that the investigative agencies have found quid pro quo electronic
41:40evidences which point that Mr. Satendra Jain personally was responsible for favoring a
41:44company with a kickback of 17 crore, which is being investigated.
41:48And please note, he's not been sent to police remand, he's been sent to judicial remand.
41:52No, fair point.
41:53And his bail plea is coming up on the 25th of this month and we'll only know better then.
42:00Thank you, Pradeep Bhandari.
42:01Once again, congratulations on your new appointment.
42:03Thank you for joining us.
42:04Because I want to quickly now cut across to leader of opposition, Atishi, in Delhi.
42:11She's also the former chief minister of Delhi, joining us.
42:21All right.
42:21Joining me right now is former Delhi chief minister and senior leader from the Amadmi Party.
42:27Atishi, what do you make of the arrest of your colleague, your former cabinet minister,
42:32Satendra Jain?
42:34Prithi, this is basically a deja vu.
42:36As soon as elections come near, as soon as elections where Amadmi Party is a major player
42:43are approaching, this is exactly the playbook of the BJP.
42:47We saw this in Delhi.
42:50We saw how near the Delhi elections, one after the other cases against Satendra Jain, Manish
42:55Sisodia, Arvind Kejriwal, FIRs were done, arrests were done.
43:00They stayed in jail for long periods of time.
43:02Once the election was over, it was very clearly found that there was absolutely no evidence
43:08in any of these cases.
43:10Now, with Punjab elections coming up, Satendra Jain being the co-in-charge for Punjab, you
43:16can see the same story playing out all over again.
43:19All of a sudden, a case is revived.
43:22Whose FIR was filed somewhere in 2023?
43:26What has changed between 2023 now and 2026?
43:31Apart from the fact that Satendra Jain is now in charge for Punjab elections, and the Punjab
43:37elections are coming up in February.
43:39So it is absolutely clear that BJP is back to their playbook.
43:43They have not learned anything from the events of the last few months.
43:47They have not learned that this kind of arrogance of power is something that the people will not
43:54accept.
43:56But, Atushi, the arrest is in the Jalbod corruption case, where tendering of STP projects is concerned.
44:03You might say that it is a case which is late.
44:06It's not the only arrest that has taken place.
44:08There have been multiple arrests that have taken place.
44:10The ACB has sought 14-day judicial custody.
44:13Along with that, they say that they have a strong case, which they have been building since
44:17the charge sheet was filed in December 2025.
44:22So you might call it political vendetta.
44:24They are saying it's due process.
44:26F.I.R. is filed in 2023.
44:29Charge sheet is filed in 2025.
44:31Since then, there is no additional evidence that they have in this case.
44:36What has changed in the last nine months?
44:38What has all of a sudden happened that warrants the arrest of Satendra Jain?
44:43The only thing that has changed is the political scenario.
44:48The only thing that has changed is that Punjab elections are coming up.
44:51And as I said, if there was one thing that the BJP should have learned from the events of the
44:58last few months, that the people of the country are watching, they are not going to accept the kind of
45:06arrogance
45:07and hubris with which BJP has run the government for the past 10-12 years.
45:13And now people are willing to give a reply to BJP.
45:17And this is what will happen in this case as well.
45:20But, Atish, it's not just the BJP that is suggesting that there has been corruption at the behest of Satendra
45:29Jain, who also held the Office of Urban Development at one point of time.
45:33It's also the Congress.
45:35So, it's not, if there was vendetta, why is the Congress also suggesting the same?
45:41That's because those two parties have a beautiful relationship amongst themselves.
45:45And that is a well-established fact, because it is very clear that no Congress leader ever gets arrested.
45:53In fact, there are so many cases that were going, which were almost open and shut cases, yet no action
46:01has ever been taken against the Congress party.
46:03So, there's a wonderful and beautiful relationship between the BJP and the Congress.
46:07The less said about which, the better it is.
46:10But in this case, it is the misuse of agencies that is being done by the BJP's central government.
46:16They are misusing the ACB.
46:18They are misusing the Enforcement Directorate.
46:20They have misused the CBI.
46:22Because a simple question that I will ask you, that when the FIR was filed in 2023, when the charge
46:28sheet was filed in 2025,
46:29and there is no additional evidence that has been put on record in the last nine months,
46:36all of a sudden, what was the need for the rest?
46:39It is very clear this is political vendetta.
46:41And it is very clear that it has happened just because the Punjab elections are coming up.
46:46And let me tell the BJP that the people of Punjab will respond.
46:51The people of Punjab don't like being arm-twisted.
46:55And therefore, if this kind of arm-twisting tactic is done by the BJP,
47:00they will see the result in the Punjab election in February.
47:03You know, I know you don't want to talk about the Congress, but let me hark back to the Congress.
47:07You say Congress and the BJP have a beautiful relationship.
47:09You practically suggest that the Congress and the BJP are together.
47:13Or the Congress and the BJP have a certain amount of understanding.
47:17That's why their leaders don't get arrested.
47:19But the fact is, the Punjab election, other than you, the primary contender for the BJP is the Congress.
47:25You don't see those arrests taking place where the Congress is concerned.
47:31Well, as I said, this beautiful relationship is there for everyone to see.
47:34It was Ajay Makan, who had first filed the complaint on this so-called excise policy issue,
47:40where recently, last few months ago, there was an order,
47:43which said there was absolutely no evidence that any wrongdoing had been done.
47:49So how is it that Ajay Makan files a case and BJP immediately initiates investigation?
47:55How is it that there are cases, you have the DLF land issue,
47:59you have the National Herald case.
48:02Why never any arrests on that?
48:05And most importantly, as I said, even if you let the Congress be,
48:09if you are saying that this is not political,
48:13why isn't the Anti-Corruption Bureau registering cases in the corruption after corruption scams
48:20that are being exposed to the BJP government?
48:23Our army party has exposed corruption in the purchasing of cycles.
48:28A 650 crore rupee health scam has taken place in Delhi.
48:33A much bigger Russian procurement scam has taken place.
48:36What exactly is happening in that?
48:39Has any BJP leader been touched?
48:42Have any BJP leaders been named in the FIR, in the 650 crore scam?
48:47Why is the health minister not under scrutiny?
48:50Why is the chief minister not under scrutiny?
48:52Why on cycle purchase is Ashish Sudh not being arrested?
48:55Why on the rice procurement is Mr. Sirsa not being arrested?
48:59This is a question that the BJP will have to answer.
49:02One final question, Atushi, before we let you go,
49:04because a lot from your political party are also defending the arrest
49:08by suggesting that Raghav Chadha, who is now with the BJP,
49:11served as vice chairman of the Delhi Jal Board at the same time where Satendra Jain was associated with it.
49:16And the investigation warrants the time frame of the same time.
49:21But the shared fact by saying that why hasn't Raghav Chadha been arrested?
49:25Aren't your party personnel admitting that there was corruption at that time by the Amadmi party,
49:30because Raghav Chadha was with the Amadmi party then?
49:34If it is very clear, this is the BJP's SOP.
49:37There is arm-twisting involved.
49:39ED and CBI are used to arm-twist all opposition parties.
49:45You saw exactly before these seven Amadmi party Rajya Sabha members went into the BJP,
49:52for almost a month before that, there were systematic raids that happened against many of them.
49:58We saw that there were CBI raids.
50:00We saw that there were ED raids.
50:02The one man who resisted is now in jail, right?
50:06So Sanjeev Aroda was the only one out of those Punjab leaders
50:12against whom ED and CBI moved, who did not go into the BJP.
50:16And he is the only one out of those leaders who is now in jail, right?
50:20So this pressure tactic of the BJP is well established.
50:24They use the ED, they use the CBI, they use the Anti-Corruption Bureau,
50:28and they tell you that either you join the BJP or you face the consequences and go to jail.
50:34There are some leaders who make the choice of going into BJP.
50:37There are some leaders who stick to their values and say that we will go to jail.
50:40Because we know that because there is no wrongdoing that has been done,
50:47Aaj nahi toh kal sachai samane aaneen.
50:50All right.
50:50Aatushree, thank you for taking the time out and joining us and putting your party's perspective forward.
50:54Thank you there.
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