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Can we improve women’s health if men are excluded from the discussion? Zachary Roland Anthony and Muhamad Albarr Che Omar of EndoBrothers discuss what it takes for men to become stronger allies in supporting and advocating for endometriosis awareness.
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00:06Hello and welcome to It's About Youth with me, Fei Kuan. Endometriosis affects millions of
00:13women yet conversations around menstrual health, menstrual pain, reproductive health are still
00:19often limited among females. Now can we really improve women's health without men in the
00:26conversation. Joining me today to speak just about that is Zachary Roland Anthony as well as
00:32Muhammad Alba Cheh Omar. They are both from Endo Brothers, a support initiative under My Endosis,
00:38working to raise awareness among men and encourage greater understanding of the challenges that women
00:44face living with endometriosis. Thank you to both of you for joining me today. It is a pleasure to
00:50have you here to speak about such an important topic of support and allyship. Now just to start
00:57off, we've highlighted in this series before that endometriosis is a condition that affects one in
01:02ten women, yet many people still know very little about it. I suppose for the both of you, how did
01:10you come across or how did you come to know about endometriosis and when did you decide or realise
01:16that this is an issue not just for women but also one that men needed to be involved in? Zach,
01:23shall we start with you? Okay, thanks Faye for the question. Actually, this was brought to us
01:30through our president of My Endosis, Ms. Rita Morgan, when she initiated this organisation.
01:38She just drew the idea to us, hey guys, why don't you join us, you know, it'll be good for
01:44you. So we
01:45were kind of, you know, confused how could it be good for us when it's a ladies thing, right? But
01:51we went
01:51in, our mind very open, our heart as well. And we just wanted to see what we could do. And
01:59even at that
02:00point of time, for a few years, it was just like look and see. But it was something that triggered
02:07us
02:07because when we noticed many of the participants who came for those events were female and rightly so.
02:15So where were their male partners? You know, their husbands, their boyfriends or even the fathers of
02:20daughters were having this predicament. They were not there. So what happens when these ladies need help?
02:28who do they go to for moral support? So me and a group of us, Alba and a few of
02:37us just got together,
02:39just had this quick discussion. Let's go for it. Let's go for it. We didn't even have a proper
02:45discussion, right? No, no long hours of like, hey, what is your objective? No, we just go and help.
02:53And we aligned ourselves with the my endosis objectives. And for us, it was two things to
02:59create awareness of what my endosis was about. And more importantly, getting men to come out of
03:07their comfort zones and to be supportive, just be a nice supportive person. And Alba, what's your take on
03:16this? At first, I heard about endometriosis itself before joining the association itself. But
03:26when it's a bit like, you know, am I suitable enough to join in this kind of association or club,
03:35so-called, because it's a condition for female. So I thought like, okay, I think I need to know what
03:43what's what is actually endometriosis. And the Dr. Sue, Sarita and other colleagues as well,
03:51also managed to influence me in a way that of course, I think that we have to give support. And
04:00I
04:00personally, I think I have to give support to them as a friend, as a colleague, and in terms of
04:09giving more knowledge about endometriosis itself to us as a male as well. It's a must. So I think that
04:17is where I step in and join Zachary and the rest. And here we are. And I think that we,
04:24we, we, we do
04:26make a lot of impact in terms of the association development as well as the numbers of members,
04:34especially from male side. I think, I think the, the thing that fascinates these women when they
04:40see us is like, what are these guys doing? You know, exactly. So that itself is probably an
04:45incentive for us. Like, okay, now we have to talk about who we are and why we are here. And
04:51that,
04:51that is rewarding because it makes us feel good that we are doing something that most people will not
04:57want to think about. Right. So, um, that, that is the honor that we have. There is no other
05:03reward, uh, given to us. There is no titles among us. No, we are just volunteers, uh, sharing our time
05:12and whatever else we need to do. So we have, I think about nine years now, 27 years to be
05:19exact,
05:19since we initiated Endo Brothers within, um, um, um, my endosis. And, um, it's good because we have
05:28had events. We've had, um, physical events, online events, um, to share this awareness to the male.
05:37Not an easy task. I'm sure. Most definitely. And that's what makes Endo Brothers such a unique
05:42initiative, right? Because it is putting men at the center of advocacy for female reproductive
05:48health. Um, and yet, you know, when we're talking about all of this menstruation and menstrual pain,
05:54there's still conversations that many boys or men grow up not really being very familiar with. Um,
05:59why, or even avoiding, because in, or having a certain, certain conversations, it may be taboo.
06:07Why do you think that sort of discomfort still exists and what impact would it really have on women?
06:14Albao, do you want to start off? Maybe towards the women itself, uh, it's not just towards the ladies.
06:21As early as the age of girls, you know, teenage also, they might have these kind of symptoms,
06:26but they don't aware of that this is an Endo. So, uh, they call it like, you know, school days,
06:34like severe period pain, you know. So, it's, it's something that for, like, maybe their schoolmates,
06:41or even their male teachers, something like, or even their female teachers just take a rest and take
06:47painkillers. Because the pain is so normal. Exactly. So, the, the, the treatment is like painkiller,
06:52painkiller, and that's it. Until they're grown up, you know, from teenage to early, uh, adult youth,
06:59and so on and so forth. So, they don't think it is, uh, something that they should diagnose with,
07:04you know, check it, or with the, the doctors, what happened to me, is this, this, this,
07:09is this, what they call like a normal thing. And it, it affected the family institution as well.
07:16So, the father also, the brothers also don't know. It's something like, okay,
07:21lah, it's just a period pain, take a, uh, you know, uh, painkiller, whatever, you know. So,
07:26that is the only thing that might be in a family institution. So, it's not, uh, uh, what they call,
07:34something that can, they can spoke out, uh, speak out to whatever Endo is. Because they don't know.
07:39Yeah. You know? So, coming from the male side itself, if they don't know, then how they wanted to help
07:46out
07:46their daughter, their sisters, their wives, they, they just like, okay, just take the painkiller,
07:53and that's it. So, it's not something that we can go on for long. This is what we think that
08:00we are
08:00important in the Endo, and, uh, having this Endo brothers is all about. Uh, so, yeah, especially the youth itself.
08:08So, Gen Z's maybe, I don't think they know about this kind of thing anymore. Uh, it's, it's, it's
08:14something like, yeah, uh, mentioned about taboo itself. So, they will not talk about it, you know,
08:20especially coming from a female. So, the male have to know what are the symptoms, the sign of it,
08:27and so on and so forth, and then try to dig out what's wrong with you, and so on and
08:31so forth. Give support,
08:32you know, and maybe encourage them to go for checkups. Yeah. That is where we know that, okay,
08:37this is a serious condition. So, we have to know what's the next step to control the pain,
08:43and so on and so forth, because there's no cure. There's no treatment yet. It's about pain
08:47management, and so on and so forth. So, part of it also is coming from the male support. So,
08:52that is important. And, Zach, I see you shaking your head just now when we were talking about
08:56awareness among Gen Z. Do you have anything to add on to that? Well, let's put the generations aside for
09:02now.
09:03Most importantly is the fact that if the older generation seem to have this mindset that this
09:10is a lady's problem, leave it as a lady's problem. Why dig deeper into it? And, you know,
09:17one, you're not equipped with the information. Number two, it's like it's a cultural thing.
09:21You know, it's always been like that. As I always say, you know, a male's problem is a lady's problem.
09:29Well, a lady's problem is always a lady's problem, which means ladies suffer alone. And I think we
09:36even had a theme before, right? Suffer in silence, you know, which I think many women who are going
09:41through this endometriosis stigma, they have to do it alone. And that's a sad thing, you know? So,
09:50it comes back to culture, it comes back to the mindset that we have, a very Eastern type of mindset,
09:57where males do their stuff, females do your stuff, you live your life, we live our life. There is a
10:05time that we come together. But that is it. So sicknesses or problems that you deal as women,
10:12it's your problem. And how you find the solutions? Well, you can always research it. And they expect
10:18you to do it on your own. So hence, we are seeing that, that kind of trend, where when we
10:25have events,
10:26it's mainly women. And you know, there's sadness on your faces. And that's why we couldn't take it.
10:33When we say like, where are the males? You know, their wives are in deep pain. We have even had
10:38cases of
10:39much more serious cases of even developing into cancer. You know, rare cases, but it's there,
10:46but they are alone in the room. And you can see their faces, you know. Where is my other half?
10:53It affects, it affects not mentally as well, but physically as well. Yeah, both. I think the mental
11:00torture is probably worse than the physical. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for, for painting that picture.
11:07Um, and you know, on that topic then, in, in your nine years together with Andrew Brothers,
11:13what are some of the most common misconceptions that you would say men have about menstrual pain
11:19and all conditions like endometriosis? Well, I think, um, if Alba has not mentioned it yet,
11:26but I think what we are seeing is, um, it's a normal thing. All women go through this. How come
11:35your pain
11:35is a bit more than others? Maybe it's your lifestyle, you know? So we have all become doctors.
11:41The males have become doctors, you know, because we want to keep our distance from the problem.
11:48We have diagnosed the problem, assuming that that is the answer, when it could be much worse.
11:54So I always believe that, you know, you wouldn't want this to happen to your wife who goes through this
12:01every month, nor your girlfriend or even your daughter. So how is it that you can be a bystander
12:10looking at this show that's going on every month and all you can say is not even a sorry, like,
12:17why is your face like that? You know, why are you so moody? So these are things which I think
12:23modern society has to change. Yeah. You know, so yes, we have had this cultural norms that have
12:31controlled our life over the years, but we are in a modern time that demands modern thinking.
12:40The wider we think, the easier to approach situations like this, but, uh, it takes time.
12:47It takes time. Definitely no more excuses for lack of understanding or when or lack of information
12:54in this day and age. Yes. Um, and of course, you know, it's great work that the both of you
12:59are
12:59doing when it comes to normalizing conversations about menstrual health. Uh, what, um, have you,
13:06how has the response been so far over throughout these years from male allies and partners? Have you
13:11noticed any attitudes beginning change? Are men more willing to engage in conversations like this
13:18than they were a few years ago? Yeah. We, we have a lot of, um, males participants and even male
13:24speakers,
13:25is that willing to talk about their wives, their, uh, better half conditions, uh, how the suffer that
13:32their wives have gone through, their daughters have gone through, uh, too hard to conceive and so,
13:39so forth. So it's, it's pretty much something, uh, a positive, uh, outcome for us, uh, having
13:46their husband talking about this, not their wives normally, you know, so it's, it's, it's very much
13:53what we are expecting and we want to go farther than that. We want to have more speakers. We want
13:58to have
13:58more males to talk about it, not just us, not just some of the speakers that we have invited before.
14:04So it opens up, uh, a gate whereby male do have the need to talk about this. Uh, it's not
14:12like, oh,
14:13this is as what, uh, Zach just mentioned, the, the female stuff is for female only. So it's, it's for
14:20male as well now because they are, you are living with them. They are our sisters, they are our mother,
14:25they are our wives, they are our friends, they are our colleagues, they are our coworkers. So we need to
14:30help
14:30them. We need to know what their condition. We need to support them and in any way. And as well
14:36as, uh,
14:37regardless of either it's going to be a family institution or work institution and so on and so
14:42forth, we are there. And so we have to be there for them as well. All right. No, we've, we've
14:49had, um,
14:50a lot of males coming, um, as bystanders. They'll be there and we have to invite them. Come, let's sit
14:56with the
14:57ladies and listen to the talk. They say, it's okay. It's okay. I'm just standing here.
15:01Then they ask them to register and then they say, oh no, uh, I won't register, but you can call
15:06me
15:06anytime. So how, how am I supposed to call you when you don't give me your details, right? So we
15:11get
15:11them to, so when we call them to support, they will come, but they don't want to be seen. Yeah.
15:17That's what we want to change. You know, what, what is so wrong about supporting a good cause?
15:25Yes. Yes. It's not something that gives you great mileage in your reputation. Maybe, yeah,
15:31this is what the world is saying, but we are saying as human beings, if you can't do
15:36this little bit to help your own other half, what is that? It's the bare minimum you could ask for.
15:47So, um, this is where things need to go deeper. We see fathers. I've had fathers coming for the
15:54events, uh, and they're quite elderly, uh, and their daughters are much older as well after
16:00school and some of them are working and they bring their daughters. So, um, and they have brothers
16:05who come, but, and these people are actually attached, but the father is bringing the daughter to listen
16:11to the talk. What's happening? Yeah. It's a sad story. It's a sad story. So we want to change this.
16:21We want, we want the male, the male of 2026 to really ask yourself this question, like, you know,
16:29how long are we going to compartmentalize things that we do? Are we not supposed to be a team?
16:37You know, when we are, when we get married, we are a team. Yeah. Right. So why is it when
16:42it comes to
16:43suffering, you suffer alone? Yeah. You suffer in silence and you are living in the same house,
16:49but you don't want to know because that's not my thing. So gone are the days. I think this taboo
16:56or stereotyping or prejudice, I like to use that word, uh, should stop. Right. And immediately so.
17:03Yeah. And when it comes to stopping that prejudice, uh, I just like to very quickly highlight that both
17:10of you have experience as educators working in the education sector. If a young man has never
17:16experienced menstrual pain himself, how do you sort of get that message across? How do you help him
17:22understand why this empathy and support methods? Wow. I was just toying with this question, you know,
17:32I was preempting something like this. So I was just imagining if a young person who has never experienced
17:38this comes to me, I'll ask him to get a tight girdle, a really tight girdle, put a weight plate,
17:46maybe a 20 kg weight plate on his stomach, put the girl around him and walk for one hour or
17:54sit for
17:54one hour or do something for one hour. If that doesn't trigger you to be uncomfortable in pain,
18:02then something is wrong. So imagine if somebody has to do this every month and the pain is much more
18:09intense. Shouldn't you be grateful that you're, you don't have to go through it, but don't you think
18:15you can land support somebody who's going through it? So you're right. You know, um, we are not talking
18:23about youngsters here in, in a negative light, but what we are saying is as youngsters, when you have so
18:30much information on the net or anywhere else, you should be in the know about things like this
18:38and be able to reach out. You know, gone are the days of being compassionate. Everyone wants to be
18:46self-centered. Everyone wants a selfish lifestyle. I think it's time to let go. Okay. And only when we
18:55come together can we reduce issues like this, not doing studies about how to reduce the pain. That is one
19:05part of it. But when it comes down to the mental aspect of it, you know, the mental stability of
19:11this
19:11women who are going through this, I think they need somebody who cares and it needs a human being, not
19:17an AI.
19:19Yeah. AI to tell you that. AI don't understand the pain. AI will never understand the pain. So we want
19:25humans,
19:25humans, basic humans to do the basic thing, to reach out and touch lives.
19:32And so we've talked so much about how important it is to show up and be there. Well, awareness is
19:40one
19:40thing, right? Allyship is another. What does meaningful support from men really look like? Whether that's in
19:47schools, as teachers, your co-workers, or at home? Meaningful support, talking about that. But of course,
19:57first thing first, they have to know what is an endo. So to begin on that, we need to have
20:04a lot of
20:05support from us and from a lot of agencies, government agencies, school institutions,
20:12institutions. So that gives us a chance to organize an events and so forth. And not just attended by
20:20female, but must be attended by male. And this is the chance whereby we can grab them, tell them this
20:27is something that a condition, a serious condition by females around us that we have to know. It's a must.
20:34So when it comes to that, I think that we have to put up more activities and events about awareness
20:44itself, not just talks and talks and talks, but in terms of getting a certain carrot so that they know
20:54that this is something serious for them to know. If we put up the topic about male condition, maybe there
21:03might be, oh, what is this? We must know this. Now it's something that we have to talk about,
21:09the carrot itself to, to grab them, their attention and get their, their, their eyes looking at this
21:15is what a female is going through. And you need to know this and we need you to give them
21:21support.
21:22And that's, that's something we are lacking about. There's something we are lacking about. Maybe the
21:27voice should come from the women asking the male to come forward, you know, and a personal invitation
21:35by them to us, us meaning the rest of the world that is not part of the Endo brothers. Yeah.
21:41Yeah. And
21:42this, this is something that is totally lacking. Males are males. Sometimes they need a personal invitation.
21:52Sometimes they need to know everything before they be part of something. If not, the distance is always
21:59there. Yeah. So we are trying to say that, look here, this is about life. This is not a science
22:05project
22:05only, but it's, it's life. So if it's about life and we are all human kinds, we should be part
22:12of this
22:12game. Yeah. So I always tell my students, you know, we are all characters in the story called life.
22:18And how we play this character is so important. So in this story of endometriosis,
22:27male and female must collaborate. Yeah. We can't ease the pain. That's the reality. But we can make them
22:35feel a lot better that they have this support. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder if you're able to share any
22:41stories of impact because we've talked so much about the barriers and the challenges in getting
22:47men to voluntarily join and be part of this initiative. Were there any moments where a better
22:53informed father, brother, maybe a friend genuinely made a difference through my endosis?
22:59Yeah. Um, we've had, um, endo brothers. Yeah. Yes. We've had, um, people sharing, you know,
23:07there was this guy, he comes from another, um, NGO called better dads and he was sharing about, um,
23:17how his wife had struggled for this disease. And then eventually he had his, um, son, right? Yeah. Yeah.
23:24But, uh, she still struggled with it. And it was not just, uh, physical pain that was, uh, crucial
23:32in their relationship that made a difference, but it was the mental torture that she had to go through.
23:38So initially, um, basically he was a bit lost about this whole condition until he had to read about it.
23:46And then he actually initiated this movement because of what he had to do
23:53for his wife and to ask other males, do the same for your wives who are going through this.
24:01And it does not have to be your wife that is experiencing it. Just give your time. If you're
24:07a male, just give your time. And it, it, this testimony really touched and we actually invited
24:12him for one of the events. And I think that was really, and he cried, he cried throughout this
24:17presentation because it was so personal to him. Yeah. Um, so we see, we see that a lot. I even
24:25had
24:25another, um, man who attended one of our physical events and, um, he didn't speak much English, but
24:35from his limited, um, ability to communicate the joy he felt when he saw the males being part of this,
24:45he asked, you know, what are you guys doing here? But y'all look so happy, you know? So we
24:52said,
24:52we don't get any salary. That's number one. Uh, but we are happy to be here because when we can
24:59make
24:59the women who are experiencing this smile a little bit more, it makes us feel better.
25:06So because of that, he joined us, he joined us and he said, call me, you know, he say can't
25:13come all the
25:13time, but he will be there, um, whenever help is needed. And that was, uh, for me, I think a
25:20great
25:20testimony. Good outcome. And we can only hope that there's more of this in the future, right?
25:26Yes. Thank you so much to both of you for sharing such inspirational stories and insights. It's been
25:33a pleasure to have you here. I've been speaking to Zachary Roland Anthony, as well as Muhammad Abba
25:39Che Omar from Endo Brothers. This has been It's About Youth with me, Faikwan. Thank you for watching
25:45and we'll see you in the next one.
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