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00:00and when we're thinking about what makes it in the show there were really a couple of rules
00:02is it true um is it funny and does it feel scary for me to say it and portray it
00:09you know and if
00:09it wasn't all three of those things it wouldn't go in the show
00:26hi i'm jazz tanke senior artisan's editor at variety and welcome to variety's anatomy of a
00:32character with bait joining us we have series creator co-showrun executive producer and actor
00:39riz ahmed or should i say outstanding lead actor in a limited or anthology series or movie for bait
00:48hi riz hi jazz oh my god massive massive congratulations on the emmy nomination and
00:56the show thank you so much yeah it feels um crazy and so surprising to to to be in this
01:04conversation
01:05we we all feel really really honored and you know great spotlight for the show you know how much i
01:12love this series we've talked about it in the past i think a lot of people don't know though that
01:17this
01:17was like you know something that you've been working on for over 10 years like it's it took you a
01:23long
01:24time to bring bait to the screen talk a little bit about the journey i think the reason it took
01:30me 10
01:3110 years was there's really two sides of it one is that it's just a very scary project to make
01:36because it's so personal um definitely the most kind of exposing and vulnerable thing i've done in
01:44the the show draws so much from very specific things that have happened to me anecdotes become
01:51scenes locations where i've grown up uh suddenly put on screen i'm really about trying to take all my
01:58greatest that kind of hope spheres and insecurities and do something more fun with it than just therapy
02:04um and hopefully because it's something that other people can relate to you know if i try and be as
02:08honest as possible but i i look back now and i realize i think i always found another thing to
02:12do
02:13or found a way of sabotaging the process because it felt quite exposing and and i think um
02:19yeah it's definitely a kind of biggest swing i've ever taken creatively and personally in that in
02:24that sense and i think the other reason it took 10 years is because it's a very kind of tricky
02:30show
02:30to get greenlit to make to do well or to even market you know it's a blend of many different
02:36genres
02:36it's surreal it's meta it's comedy it's drama and it's poking fun of one of the biggest franchises of
02:42all time james bond so even trying to kind of like get permission to do it was a challenge so
02:48i think
02:49the fact that it was scary and the fact it was quite against the odds kind of thing to even
02:54try
02:54and pull off meant it just yeah it just really took a long time to pull together so it feels
03:00amazing to
03:00be talking to you now there is satire there is the comedy but you know what i loved seeing on
03:07screen
03:07was the cultural identity the representation you know right off the bat you deal with racial
03:14discrimination in that first episode how did you talk about writing you know and working with that
03:20team to make sure that you know you're dealing with these serious issues these real issues that
03:27people can identify with but also bringing in that element of comedy and satire to it all you know
03:34it's interesting i don't think of it as a kind of primarily issues based show or i certainly didn't
03:40kind of enter with that it was really just about trying to draw from uh the conflicts insecurities
03:46vulnerabilities and reality of my own experience because i felt like it was one that lots of people
03:53share and i think if i to kind of distill it down to what i think that experience is it's
03:59experience of
04:00feeling like you're not good enough i think that's something that's so relatable i think we're all often
04:04made to feel like we're not cool clever successful sexy desirable or decisive enough and so when we
04:11feel like that we we kind of end up performing this other version of ourselves that's more put together
04:17you know right now on this zoom i'm performing a version of myself that like knows what he's talking
04:22about and isn't exhausted and um feeling a little bit anxious to talk about his show so personal you
04:27know and and so my character in the show charlatif he's he's doing a version of what we're all doing
04:33he's
04:33um you know wearing this mask and trying this trying on this kind of outfit that makes him feel
04:42more successful cool desirable decisive and that outfit happens to be one of james bond
04:48and and so um that is i think what was the emotional core of it it was
04:55leading into this character's vulnerability and how he tries to cover it up
04:59you know and his messiness and his vulnerability is there to see across six episodes of him kind of
05:04like going down a rabbit hole of self-destruction and messiness and and drama and comedy
05:10um but the way he tries to cover it up is by seeking the validation of others people pleasing
05:15trying to prove to the world that he's good enough that he could be james bond he could be the
05:21ultimate
05:22symbol of success and alpha masculinity and britishness and all this kind of stuff so
05:27i think it was just about trying to lean into it and when we're thinking about what makes it in
05:32the
05:32show there were really a couple of rules is it true um is it funny and does it feel scary
05:38for me to say
05:38it and portray it you know and if it wasn't all three of those things it wouldn't go in the
05:42show
05:57something that felt so real and raw and vulnerable to watch was the panic attack that shah has at the
06:07end of episode episode one you know it's really powerful to see that because you know if you've
06:14been there you've had a panic attack it's the it's the worst thing of like working through that talk
06:18about that process and preparing for that and exposing yourself in this way you know as an actor
06:26i guess uh this idea of feeling like you're not good enough and what happens to trigger this panic
06:32attack is you know my character has his first taste of you know real going viral and internet
06:39notoriety and suddenly you know there's all this chatter and conversation about him that feels
06:43exciting and thrilling don't go in the comments dude because you know what he starts to see is also
06:50there's a lot of backlash people got a lot of hot takes on whether this guy is good enough to
06:54be the
06:54next james bond what you know who is this guy you know what why should he be i don't like
06:59him he's
06:59ugly he's too this he's too that he's whatever he is i've spiraled like that for sure i've gone in
07:06the comments i've you know early on especially when you're working out who you are it's like you're
07:12asking the world to tell you like who am i am i good enough what like and when it comes
07:17back
07:18you know with a with a d or a c minus rather than a plus that that hurts and so
07:23it was pulled from that
07:24experience that i've had and i think a lot of people have with like their online lives but honestly
07:30i have to tell you guys like that happened to me on that exact stage that we filmed it so
07:36the scene
07:37that you see is me having a panic attack on stage at the kentish town forum in north london literally
07:43that happened to me on that exact stage um when i was supporting the wu-tang clan i was almost
07:49booed
07:50off stage because wu-tang were two and a half hours late i kept the crowd awaiting for like method
07:55man
07:56rizza to come out it's like you know kid comes out unknown rapper doing electronic rap
08:035 000 people just booing and i had to fight through that fight through literally feeling like my
08:11pulse was you know coming out of my throat and i couldn't breathe i pulled the track i tried to
08:16battle my way through an acapella until i could turn the crowd around and have them applauding and
08:21then i just bolted off stage shortest set i've ever done in my life two and a half minutes and
08:26i bolted
08:26out of that same fire escape that you see that same alleyway to try and take a deep breath so
08:32um it's
08:33you know it couldn't have been more real really everything from the location to to you know to to how
08:39it felt so i really tried to pull from that yeah we've talked about therapy in the past and how
08:46therapeutic things were was it therapeutic to go back and do that scene it was or was it traumatic
08:53it was it was all of that it was all of it honestly you know um like i said i
08:57kept joking
08:58with my producing partner um ali more you know i was like you know once we made the show do
09:02people
09:02really have to watch it some of it just felt so kind of um exposing in that way yeah it
09:10was
09:10therapeutic i guess you know if i'm really honest this this show is also a process of me trying to
09:16kind of get to a place of more self-acceptance and self-love like like hopefully all of us you
09:21know
09:21i'll put it out there and say i'm on that journey i think all of us are somewhere along that
09:25journey
09:26maybe some people are fully enlightened and are fully self-compassionate in a way that's totally
09:31self-accepting you know every day i'm kind of like trying to take another step uh forwards on that
09:37journey and some days you take a step forwards and two steps back so i guess this show is an
09:41attempt
09:41to me to like put it all out there there's no more hiding you have to accept it celebrate it
09:45laugh at it you know you have to laugh your way through shame and so um i'd say it was
09:51kind of
09:52healing in a way to say this is this is my mess you know yeah the music is such a
09:57character of the
09:59show unto itself um you know we've got garage in there you've got you've said pakistani folk music
10:06in there like you know talk about how what you wanted the music to say about shah's character and
10:16as he goes on his journey working with your incredible music supervisor is chiara chiara yeah
10:23yeah she did such an incredible job and she also worked on another show that i loved and who's kind
10:28of all the needle drops and soundtrack i loved which is i may destroy you which is how i found
10:32her um
10:33now honestly the music was trying to do a couple of things one was trying to be as eclectic as
10:38possible
10:38to showcase london which is like a character in the show you've got that class of clash of um tempos
10:44and cultures and sounds it's also trying to be as eclectic as the tone of our tv show because that
10:50was something that we really wanted to do as a big swing we wanted to take was how do we
10:54kind of go
10:55from one episode being almost a bollywood soap opera you know to the next episode being a before sunrise
11:03romantic walk and talk to another episode being like a spy thriller um with a surreal twist we really
11:11wanted to play in different genres that's something we were really adamant to try and pull off
11:14and try and do we felt it'd be bold it'd be interesting but hard and so the music really
11:19helped um to kind of almost create a coherent through line through it and what i mean by that
11:26is we went digging in the crates and we landed on this sound from late night like 1970s pakistani
11:32film music and 1980s bollywood music that was kind of super trippy like um freewheeling fun playful
11:40like bollywood disco pakistani acid funk it's kind of quite you know music that isn't that well known
11:47but it's just so it's like an acid trip it's like so fun and playful and cheeky and unpredictable and
11:56we saw you know what that's the kind of tempo and the feeling of this show so even when the
12:00show is
12:00going this way and this way and that way and that way we've got this sonic bed this through line
12:05of this
12:05late 70s early 80s south asian cinema music which is kind of uh consistent color you know in the
12:15palette and i was actually thinking a lot of bird man in that way um in the way that you've
12:20got
12:20something a kind of sound bed that is playful and announces itself and is like a a character
12:27in the show itself in the movie itself and i think working with inuritu the same time that i was
12:32making
12:33bait kind of rubbed off for me in some ways uh just being encouraged to be bold and take inspiration
12:41why are you why are you saying nicole jou to me no no i'm asking why is he saying that
12:44to me
12:44what did i do what i do i'm trying to fucking make a difference i'm not just sat there
12:48fucking complaining about everything well you lot will judge me huh why are you fucking touching me
12:52don't touch me i'm trying to change your world all right so anyone doesn't look at you and think
12:57you're some fucking worthless stinking picture baggy look at me get the fuck out of it what
13:03she blames you for what happened to your mom bro shut up talk about that scene and what is happening
13:11with him at that point and then also at the end of the show like how how does he how
13:18has he evolved
13:19from when we first see him to that point and then it's a massive moment in the show it's i
13:24would say
13:24it's a character's low point in many ways or i wouldn't say he's at his rock bottom but
13:28it's when things really blow up for him i think a couple of things are happening one is he's kind
13:32of almost having a bit of a nervous breakdown or at least losing his grip a little bit he's not
13:37grounded at all you know he's trying to chase after the validation of so many different groups of
13:43people it's kind of tearing them apart you know if you're going to care what your family think and
13:47what one group of people thinks online and then another group of thing people think and he's
13:52trying to chase the um you know the likes and the love of his community of like mainstream
13:59traditional britain of his ex of his parents of his cousin it was he's kind of losing his center
14:07and so he has this kind of meltdown it's quite a public meltdown deliberately so you know um
14:13my parents watched a lot of kind of indian pakistani soap operas and particularly in indian ones
14:18generally the pattern is there's a massive bust up at some massive public glamorous kind of like
14:24family event uh everyone's dressed up in their finery and someone gets slapped
14:30and then you have a crash zoom into that and it's like a whole moment and
14:35this whole episode in many ways is paying homage to that there's a there's a whole sequence with
14:40the character of salim um played by nabon rizwan who's my character's rival when he arrives we do the
14:45crash zooms and all that kind of stuff and the reactions but my feeling was how can we land that
14:51same indian soap opera feeling where someone gets slapped to the end but actually make it land
14:56emotionally you know can we make that actually feel real and emotional uh you know not that those
15:02things don't for many people they do but for me um in a naturalistic way could you land that same
15:07circumstance you know and um and i guess like what's happening is you know what happens in
15:14families it's a horrible massive bust up you know in so many ways this show is a complicated love
15:21letter to home and family you know you can't live with them can't live without them it's the place you
15:26want to return to and escape from it's the people you want to make most proud and the people you
15:30want
15:30to prove wrong it's the people that um see through all of your bullshit to who you really are and
15:36so
15:36that's why you kind of want to sometimes hide from them and be close to them you know and so
15:41it is
15:41that complicated moment where who he is trying to be out there in the world um and who he is
15:49with his
15:50family and all these different sides of shah they're kind of clashing and exploding and he's having a bit of
15:55a uh a meltdown so so really it goes to the heart of the show in terms of when you're
16:02pulled apart
16:03um you know trying to chase other people's approval pull apart between your public and private self
16:10how it can lead you to kind of implode in that way and it's also goes to the heart of
16:15the show
16:15because it's about family you know and how messy and raw family relationships can be
16:22love watching messy family shows um riz i have to say thank you so much for that insight into bait
16:31which is streaming on prime video once again massive congratulations on your emmy nomination
16:37and for bringing shah to the tv screens for us so thank you so much really thank you so much
16:44it
16:44means the world i appreciate it
16:52you
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