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00:00Our dad, he lives in the Bay Area, and he went to a yoga class at one of these, like,
00:05you know, highly commercial studios, and he showed up and he was wearing basketball shorts, and they said, sir, you're
00:11wearing the wrong attire, and he said, okay, where can I get the right attire, and they said, right at
00:19the gift shop, which is conveniently located next door to our studio, and he ended up buying the yoga pants.
00:34Good evening, everyone. I'm Jaz Tanke, Senior Artisans Editor at Variety, and welcome to Variety Screening Series.
00:41How amazing was that film and that tonal shift at the end? I'm so excited to talk about it.
00:48So please welcome writers and directors, Rish and Kanish. Come on out.
00:55Let me tell you, their costumes and their shoes are so sharp.
00:58Oh, thank you.
01:00Congratulations on the movie.
01:05Oh, my gosh. That ending. Can we just start there?
01:09I was, like, watching this going, what's going to happen? And then there's this huge tonal shift. Can we just
01:15talk about coming up? Who came up with that idea? And how?
01:19Well, it's Rish and Kanish, so we come up with everything together, I guess.
01:23Um, Kanish, um, Kanish is my older brother, so, um, he always has to mention that I'm his older brother
01:31and every single one of these is like, you could just say that we're brothers, but it's fine.
01:35Now it does. I think the younger siblings know the truth. Um, but we, we basically pass back, uh, pass
01:44our script back and forth, um, until it's, until it's done.
01:47And we're always trying to entertain each other. So when there are turns in the narrative of the movie, they're
01:55probably because one of us just took a left turn and then the other kind of ran with it.
02:00And I think that actually really is an advantage in the writing process because, um, I think one of the
02:07biggest obstacles for any artist, even outside of writing is, uh, getting your work to the point where you can,
02:14you feel ready to show it to someone else.
02:15And we always feel like both of our names are going on the script. And so I have to make
02:22my own favorite movie and Kanish's favorite movie and vice versa. So I guess that's sort of how a lot
02:28of the wildest parts of the movie emerged.
02:32Kanish, you want to add to that?
02:35Sometimes when we write, I mean, like he said, the way that we write is like, we hand the script
02:40back and forth. So sometimes when I'm writing my parts, I'm just like, all right, I think I've written enough
02:49and I don't know what to write next. So I'll just send it to him.
02:52And then let's see what he comes up with. And then he passed it back to me and I'm like,
02:55Oh, what the hell is all this stuff? And then I want to see where I can take it.
03:00And I think like he said, that helps all of our stories feel very organic because as soon as the
03:08first draft is done, it's already been passed back and forth and it's already been reviewed and hammered upon by
03:14both of us at different points.
03:18So it feels like something that is fresh. And I feel lucky that sometimes he sends up to me and
03:24it's so good. I'm like, man, I didn't do any of this, but I get to sign my name to
03:27it and no one will know.
03:30Oh my gosh, this is like the perfect collaboration. But okay, you know how much I love this film, but
03:36talk about the genesis of it. Like, how did you come up with this? I mean, there are so many
03:41points that I'd want to discuss with you.
03:44But yeah, where did it all begin?
03:46I mean, I think the backbone of the story is the grandmother granddaughter relationship. And we actually became a lot
03:55closer with our grandmother over the past several years. This is our dad's mom.
03:59And so the grandmother character in this film, Bhakti, she sort of is inspired by her own grandmother and also
04:06our mom in some ways.
04:09And I just want to say about our grandmother, we really only got to know her, I would say in
04:152023 or so. We had seen her before that a few times when we were growing up.
04:21But we got to know her as our friend only a few years ago. And she is just so awesome.
04:29She's 91, still working as a...
04:33She works, yeah.
04:34Yeah, go ahead.
04:34She does subtitles and translation for Malayalam literature in South India and for films. She does subtitling work.
04:42Um, and she's actually a PhD in English too. So her English is significantly better than ours.
04:47She is a spectacular conversationalist. The way that she uses English, it's like, and she knows how skilled she is.
04:55She, she's like a dancer with her words. It's like every word that comes out of her mouth, she knows
05:01how fucking awesome it sounds.
05:03And she's like, sometimes she like just drops some bombs on us. And we were kind of nervous to send
05:08her the script because she's a really, really good, um, deployer of language, but she loved it.
05:15But I, I bring up the grandmother character because obviously yoga is really central to the whole movie and, um,
05:22the idea of culture, um, cultural exploration versus exploitation and like how to, um, you know, how to articulate some
05:31of our perspectives around like what's happening to yoga, um, in the West in particular.
05:36But I think it's because of this relationship between the grandmother and the granddaughter that we're able to articulate that
05:42maybe more sensitively than we had initially, because, you know, we came, we, I think the first draft of the
05:49script we wrote in 2019.
05:50So a lot of our thoughts at that time were more, um, I guess, incisive and, um, I think just
06:00having these sorts of relationships to, uh, skew the script more blowtorch, less flamethrower, um, really became instructive.
06:12Well, you told me a fascinating story about the casting of the grandmother who's so brilliant. Like, talk about who
06:18she is.
06:20Yeah, the actor who plays Bodhi in the film, her name is Usha Krishnan. Um, she's actually our great aunt.
06:26So she's our dad's aunt. And it's the first time she's ever acted, uh, in a film.
06:33And she, yeah, she is incredible.
06:41And I really, we're going to tell her that we just hosted a screening of the film in LA and
06:46this audience applauded for her performance. She's going to be, wow, that's so amazing.
06:50She, she lives in a village, uh, in Kerala in, uh, the state in South India that our dad's side
06:57of the family's from.
06:58And, um, I think, I guess the story behind how she got cast in the movie, um, is kind of
07:04funny.
07:05Our uncle, her son, he was taking us on a road trip actually along with our grandmother in South India.
07:10And we told him that we really wanted to cast an actor for this part of Bodhi, um, who was
07:16from India because we felt that that would, like, bring a level of realism and authenticity to the character, um,
07:22that we felt was pretty, uh, essential to the whole movie working.
07:27Um, and then he said, oh, you should just cast my mom.
07:30And then we're like, give me a break.
07:33Like, I'm sure everyone who we tell about this movie to in India is going to say, oh, yeah, you
07:37should cast my mom.
07:39Let's see.
07:39And we actually hadn't met her either.
07:41We didn't, we didn't grow up with this great aunt, um, and, uh, we, we went to her house, um,
07:48you know, later that day, I think.
07:49And she started, like, telling us her life story.
07:51And she really, as you can see in the film, she has, like, a face where you can see her
07:56entire life in, in just an image of it.
07:59And she, she started, you know, talking about her upbringing.
08:02She said, you know, in my life, I've worn many hats.
08:05I've been a daughter.
08:06She said, I've played many roles.
08:09I've played many roles.
08:10You didn't ask her to say.
08:11I've played many roles.
08:12I was a daughter.
08:13I was a student.
08:15I was a wife at one point, a mother.
08:18Um, and out of all of the roles that I've played in my life, my favorite role has been a
08:24grandmother.
08:25And then we said, all right, you got the part.
08:29I feel like they've got so many great stories to tell tonight.
08:32Um, I mean, but then talk about building out the rest of your cast and how that all came together
08:37and what was important to you in the casting process.
08:40So I think for us, when we work with actors, the most important thing early on is that they do
08:51auditions and they have to present a perspective in their audition.
08:59They have to show us what is their interpretation of the character.
09:05And like for us, it doesn't matter at all.
09:07Like what you've done in the past or whatever, like is on your resume.
09:11We only want to know, can you do this movie or not?
09:16And when an actor does an audition, I mean, number one, they show us that like they want to work
09:21with us, like they want to be a member of the team.
09:24Number two, they show like that they will take a risk.
09:28They will present a take at the end.
09:33They will take a chance that that may not be a take that we want to see in the movie.
09:37But if it is, then that instantly makes the character a manifestation that is the combination of our work and
09:48their work.
09:50And then when we get to the rehearsal process, which we do extensively with every single one of our actors,
09:56even in this movie, the actors who had one line, we had a meeting with them in person where we
10:03go over the character and we talk about the line and their motivations and all that.
10:06So when we do those exercises with our actors, they can ask us as many questions as they want.
10:12And we always tell our actors, the same as our department heads, we always want to hear what you have
10:17to say.
10:19Because now, thank you, because now you are boarding the movie as someone who is helping us articulate the story
10:27that we want to tell.
10:28So in the rehearsals, when they can feel empowered to help us make decisions about the character, then we can
10:34go on set.
10:35And we don't really have to do that much hand-holding on set.
10:38Actually, when we had all of our actors assembled for the table read, which we had at our house, it
10:45went so well that we canceled the rehearsals for the rest of the day.
10:50And we're like, okay, we're going to just see you all on set.
10:52Because the way they were all just saying every single line in the script, for us as script, our writing,
10:57it's like we can hear the rhythm and the music of the dialogue.
11:01And every single one of them, they are like an instrumentalist who is just playing what we wrote so perfectly.
11:10And then when we can come together and hear that all in a row, that was like really a euphoric
11:15moment for me and Rich.
11:16And then we said, all right, no more rehearsals for the day.
11:19So, wow.
11:20You mentioned department heads.
11:22One thing that I love about this is like visually like, you know, there are costumes on display in the
11:28reception and the detail.
11:30But also the production design, the visual effects that we were talking about at the end.
11:35Like talk about working with your department heads in that collaboration of like them helping bring your vision to life.
11:44I mean, yeah, it's been incredible.
11:45I think as first-time feature directors, there were a lot of times in this journey where people would just
11:55say like, you guys can't do this.
11:57Like there's no way that you could ever pull this off.
12:01Because even on the page, there was a lot of ambition.
12:03A lot of people would say this is very ambitious, which always felt a little euphemistic.
12:08Sometimes they would say it's impossible.
12:10But there was stuff on the page.
12:11But we did it anyway.
12:13But there was stuff on the page like, you know, there's a lot of pyrotechnics.
12:17There's the ayahuasca sequences like essentially in space.
12:21You know, there's monster makeup and there's CG with Judy at the end.
12:29And all of those possibilities only became realities because the department heads took chances on us.
12:38And many of our department heads, they're around our same age and, you know, they read the script just like
12:45anyone else.
12:46And they said, you know, I'll take a chance on this.
12:48Or I think that you guys have some clarity of vision.
12:52And I think we just were able to do it as a team, one person at a time.
12:57And I think that's really important for us to say as first-time filmmakers, especially as independent filmmakers, because we
13:05feel like there is a lot of folklore about what is possible in independent filmmaking.
13:12That, like, you can only do – there's an idea that you can only do spectacle or scale or visual
13:19effects if you're working, like, in a corporate studio environment.
13:24But it's all ultimately artistry and craft and, you know, it's just literally, as we said at the beginning, one
13:31frame at a time.
13:32We sat with our visual effects supervisor, Ron.
13:34We looked at every single frame.
13:36We looked at every single pixel, literally, for tech checks during visual effects.
13:40We had discussions with Pooja, our hair and makeup supervisor, about every single hairstyle, all the makeup for all the
13:48actors, with Asher, our composer, about every note in the score, every instrument.
13:52We recorded the score with a live orchestra in India, and we, you know, we spoke to every artist who
13:57performed on the score.
13:58So I think just being really intentional and really close to it, it allowed us a lot.
14:06And I just want to underline also, we said this in the introduction, but I think it bears repeating.
14:14Many of the department heads who have worked on this movie, they really are some of our very best friends.
14:19And when we watch them work, I just feel so, now they're here and I'm going to embarrass them a
14:27little bit.
14:28I feel so lucky and happy to see this craft executed at this high of a level by someone who
14:41I also really love to hang out with.
14:43Like, when they are doing their work, and we're seeing them execute, I'm like, even if I didn't know them
14:51at all, I would feel so lucky that I'm getting a front row seat to this, like, precise level of
14:58artistry.
14:59And then it just so happens that we can also have a drink with them outside and be eating this
15:02food and be chatting about our lives.
15:04It's like this life that we lead with them by our side, even outside of the movies that we make,
15:08but especially on set, it is just so rich.
15:11I love it so much.
15:12It's fantastic.
15:13I love it.
15:14We can give you a shout out.
15:15They're sitting right here.
15:16Ashtray Pooja, a composer and a hair and makeup supervisor.
15:19Please.
15:21There you go.
15:24First time feature film, you know, within the independent world of filmmaking.
15:32Talk, I mean, you touched a little bit on the challenge of it, but talk about that and financing this
15:38movie being told, you know, you can't do it.
15:42And then you're like, no, we're going to do this.
15:45Well, Jazz, as I'm sure you can imagine, it's really hard.
15:51We have been working on this now for seven years, and there have been many days as we have walked
16:02along this road that have been pretty demoralizing.
16:08I was thinking this morning, my brother and I, in the process of making this movie, have each had separate
16:14experiences where we were separated,
16:18and we thought that the other one had died.
16:21And we had to entertain the thought for more than a moment about how we would drag this film forward
16:32even one more step.
16:33Because up until this moment, and as we continue to do now every day, we drag it forward as a
16:43team.
16:44And as we do that, it's really tiring.
16:50Our knuckles are bloody.
16:51Our lungs are dry.
16:53And as you said also, there have been many naysayers, many, many moments when many of the people around us
17:04have thought, okay, well, that might be it.
17:08But because we have each other, we really are best friends, and we live together.
17:16But it's like there's never, ever been a day where both of us have given up, ever.
17:23And there will never be such a day on our horizon.
17:26Because as long as one person is looking ahead and says, the sun will come up, that's enough for the
17:31other person to be like, well, if he thinks it, then I think it as well.
17:39And I'll also shout out our producer, Venk Batula, is here with us tonight.
17:45And he's been dragging with us for years as well.
17:47So thank you, Venk.
17:49And he, you know, I guess to answer your question about financing, we went mostly to VCs.
17:56We grew up in the Bay Area, and I think that has affected a lot of our worldview, honestly, in
18:02terms of, like, just getting things done.
18:05Because I think films, like, in a lot of ways, they are small businesses, especially independent films.
18:14And you have to be very industrious and enterprising and entrepreneurial.
18:21And so I think once we had Venk on board with us, then it was the three of us.
18:28You know, it started with Rich and Kanish, and then it's, okay, Venk's a part of the team.
18:31And then it's literally going hat in hand to every single department head.
18:35Some of them we cold emailed.
18:37Some of them, you know, we DM'd on Instagram.
18:39Or, you know, some of them we had, you know, Venk, you know, I know a guy or whatever.
18:45But we found all of these people one at a time.
18:49And, you know, we built the team.
18:51And then it's just, like, with, you know, there's so many small businesses, apps, enterprises that get financed in that
18:59way.
18:59Where it's, like, okay, what's your idea or what's your product?
19:02What's the team?
19:03Like, how are you going to build it?
19:05And, you know, there's, like, comps and things like that in the film industry.
19:08Or genres can give, like, some sense of structure.
19:12But I think going about things that way was really freeing.
19:18Because we did try knocking on some of the conventional doors in the film industry.
19:23And, you know, those doors are often unkind to the new.
19:30So fascinating.
19:32But what does it mean to, you know, tell a story where you kind of shatter, you know, the stereotypical
19:38roles that we see available, you know, to South Asian actors and the stories that are being told?
19:47I think for us, all aspects of identity for all of the characters in the film, for Gayathri, for Malika,
19:55all the characters, an identity is not a story.
20:00It's a part of a character that affects how they interact with the story, absolutely.
20:06And there are a lot of movies that have characters which have various identities that are not palpable at all.
20:16But the identity of a character in and of itself is not enough to undergird a narrative.
20:24So, like, in Namaste, you know, the story is about a woman's relationship with her grandmother through the yoga that
20:32they practice.
20:33You know, I mean, you've all just seen the movie.
20:34But the identities of each of the characters, as we employ them, serve to enliven their roles in the story.
20:46So I think the perfect example is Gayathri, right?
20:48She's South Asian, she's dark-skinned, she's Tamil, and she's a person who stutters, and she's a woman.
20:55All of these things affect the way in which she moves through the world and in which she interacts with
21:03every single other individual around her.
21:07But they're not, you know, in and of themselves a story element.
21:10When we write such that her interactions are made manifest through the lens of her identity, like, for Gayathri as
21:20a person who stutters,
21:21each character she interacts with has a different relationship with her as a person who stutters, right?
21:26Judy is an ally to her as a person who stutters, but not as a white person.
21:32Her grandmother, Pati, obviously understands her as a woman of color, as a Tamil woman,
21:37but not as a person who stutters really until the very end of her life.
21:44And in our estimation, that's how we think our identities actually exist in the lives that we live.
21:52It's like, yes, we're South Asians, and, like, I'm a person who stutters, and, you know,
21:58we all have a stack of identities upon which we build our living experience.
22:02It's masala, you could say.
22:03That's right. That's exactly right.
22:06And each of our interactions that we have with other people, where those identities are at the fore,
22:11those are, like, the notes that make up the song of our life.
22:15So that's how we, like, use identity in our characters.
22:20And there are so many different types of people in the world.
22:24Like, it's really frustrating, I have to say, when we see a movie,
22:30and it's, like, all the same kind of people.
22:33Like, that's just so lazy.
22:35That's, there's so many different types of people in the world.
22:38Why aren't you taking, and it's, you know, sometimes they say, like,
22:41oh, you know, worldwide casting shows.
22:42Okay, you went to Silver Lake, and you went to Williamsburg.
22:44Like, where the fuck else did you serve?
22:46Did you go to fucking Bahrain?
22:47Did you go to Tajikistan?
22:48Did you go to Papua New Guinea?
22:50No, right?
22:50What is this worldwide casting show?
22:52When you do that, just like you said,
22:55masala, when you're actually using all of the spices that are available on this earth,
23:00you can serve something to your audience that is fucking delicious.
23:06And this film is just that.
23:08Okay, I have to ask you before I let everybody go.
23:11The yoga pants scene with Guy, she's forced to spend $100 on those yoga pants.
23:17I was like, oh, man, I feel so bad now every time I throw that money away.
23:21Like, can you just talk about coming up?
23:24Who came up with that idea, and what was the inspiration behind it?
23:29I mean, that one I think we can give our dad some credit, actually,
23:32because our dad, he lives in the Bay Area,
23:36and he went to a yoga class at one of these, like, you know, highly commercial studios.
23:41And he showed up, and he's wearing basketball shorts.
23:44And they said, sir, you're wearing the wrong attire.
23:46And he said, okay, where can I get the right attire?
23:51And they said, right at the gift shop, which is conveniently located next door to our studio.
23:56And he ended up buying the yoga pants.
23:59So, you know, there is, I think, you know, the satire, the comedy of that moment,
24:07you know, and of all these experiences of, like, this is ridiculous.
24:10Like, there's something that's, like, truly, like, slapstick almost about the whole experience.
24:15But then there is also something beneath that that's, like, kind of sinister,
24:19where it's, like, a lot of strains of colonialism.
24:21There is a commoditization that's happening.
24:24There is, like, an extraction and then a resale at a premium.
24:29And, you know, as, you know, as a person, as, you know, our dad in that situation,
24:34you feel like I am in the wrong, I guess.
24:37Like, I guess I should buy these pants for $200.
24:42So, yeah, that really became part of the tapestry of the whole movie.
24:47And, you know, I think we have a lot of similar experiences, even, like, with diversity.
24:54Like, the way diversity is talked about in general, like, in a lot of industries,
24:58in the entertainment industry, you know, the entertainment industry being no exception.
25:01Like, there is some stuff about the way diversity is handled that you can laugh at.
25:08But then undergirding it, there is just, like, a power dynamic that often feels like the ocean,
25:13that you can't change it.
25:15But you can.
25:18What incredible words to leave us with.
25:21And I just want to say congratulations on this film.
25:25It is truly delicious.
25:28And I cannot wait to see what you do next.