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00:00It's going to be an interesting show this week.
00:01No Joel Sherman.
00:02He's on every week, and I can't believe that he's actually on vacation.
00:06The man who never takes a vacation is off.
00:08So what we have is not just one, but two people substituting for him.
00:12We're going to have Jim Duquette from SNY and MLB Network Radio will join me to talk
00:18Yankees and Mets, and we will also have Dave Dombrowski, the president of baseball operations
00:23for the Philadelphia Phillies.
00:25Both have been on the show before.
00:27Both are excellent.
00:28Really looking forward to it.
00:30Stay with me on the show.
00:33Jim Duquette coming up next, and then after that, we're going to have Dave Dombrowski.
00:42All right.
00:42It is my pleasure to welcome in Jim Duquette of MLB Network Radio, SNY.
00:48Are you doing anything else lately these days?
00:51That's enough.
00:52That's plenty.
00:53That's plenty.
00:53I'm doing this with you.
00:55This is my second appearance this year.
00:57Right.
00:57For free.
00:58So that tells you what a nice guy Jim is, replacing Joel here today.
01:02Joel is on semi-vacation.
01:04He's never on complete vacation because I'm sure he's going to do the post plus and the
01:09pinstripe post and a few other things.
01:11But Jim is kind here to join me for the show.
01:15We really appreciate Jim.
01:16Jim also, previously the GM of the GM of the Mets and of the Orioles.
01:21So both leagues.
01:23So you've got experience.
01:25Very good.
01:26Jim, it's been an interesting week or so since the trade deadline.
01:31The Mets sold like crazy and now they're great.
01:35And the Yankees brought two offensive guys in and they can't hit.
01:43So it's been a weird week.
01:46Let's get the Mets first.
01:48We're going to get the Mets out of the way.
01:49I saw Mike Puma in the post, very fanciful.
01:52Some might call it far-fetched article that if they go 32 and 13, they can have 83 wins
01:58and get in.
01:59Well, they are hot.
02:00It's a fun article.
02:01What are you going to do?
02:02Write that Beatty's in a slump again?
02:04You know, I mean, it was a fun thing to write.
02:06What do you think?
02:07I mean, they're not going to obviously do that.
02:09But let's look more long-term here, at least until next year.
02:15How buried are they right now?
02:17They had so many bad decisions that I think it's going to be tough even next year.
02:23They say they want to win next year and they do want to win next year.
02:25They didn't trade Lindoy and do all those things.
02:27They kept their top players.
02:30Is it possible?
02:31What do they have to do?
02:32Boy, it does feel like they have a lot of work to do still.
02:35So, first off, I did like their deadline.
02:38I know some people didn't.
02:39I did.
02:40Now, that's kind of the minimum standard when you're in that position,
02:45that when you have good players that you end up trading,
02:48you better get good prospects back.
02:50Like, if you can't do that well, then you shouldn't even be in the job.
02:53And I thought David Stearns did a good job with that.
02:56You know, there was some debate whether they should have gone as far as they did.
02:59I liked it just in the sense that relievers, the guys that they gave up,
03:02relievers, you should be able to replace them, right?
03:05I think just starting with the bullpen.
03:06Like, they've had a good bullpen.
03:08Obviously, Devin Williams is going to be back.
03:10There's some question whether he, in a winning environment,
03:14if he's your close or not.
03:15But he's going to be back.
03:16I think they can find other relievers, you know,
03:19and be active and rebuild that.
03:21That I'm not concerned about.
03:22You know, let's go to the offense real quick.
03:24Like, the offense has not been great.
03:26Lately, it has been.
03:28And I'm still stunned at how few games that they have played together with Soto,
03:33Bichette, and Lindor.
03:35Like, that's just, that's, I think, a rarity that if all those three guys are back next year,
03:40it should be a lot better.
03:42And obviously, Polanco, you can throw him into that mix, too.
03:45You saw Polanco last year.
03:47You know, he hasn't had a lot of health, you know, a lot of good health,
03:51but he's a much better hitter and player.
03:55Two home runs against Skubal in the playoffs.
03:57Two home runs.
03:58I mean, like, we saw that with our own eyes.
04:00And he had a really good year last year.
04:02So, you know, and I think the two young players, they give you energy, right,
04:05with Benj and Ewing.
04:07So, I like that part of the core.
04:09You know, with Robert, we'll see if they decide to have him back.
04:12Like, I think there's a less than zero percent.
04:14I mean, they can't pick up that.
04:14Yeah, they can't pick up that option.
04:16They shouldn't, right?
04:17They shouldn't.
04:17I mean, $20 million?
04:19I mean, they did it once.
04:21They did it once, and it was a mistake.
04:23And, you know, the question would be, let's say, you know,
04:26he's playing center field the entire, let's say, the last two months,
04:29and he goes off.
04:31You'd have to at least give it some thought.
04:33Again, this is not our money.
04:34I'm not giving it any thought.
04:36We're not spending Steve Cohen's money.
04:38I like spending other people's money, but I'm not giving –
04:40I'm not picking up Luis Robert's option, no matter what he does.
04:45Because beyond that, Ewing is a better center fielder,
04:47and they have three outfielders, right?
04:49Soto's still an outfielder, right?
04:51I don't think they've made Soto a DH.
04:53They might need that spot for Polanco anyway.
04:57So I don't see how he fits, and you can't have two years in a row with it,
05:02in my opinion.
05:03Yeah, yeah.
05:04Go ahead.
05:04It's hard to figure out a pathway for him to be on the team.
05:09I'm just saying I think it's not a 0% chance.
05:14Maybe it's 5%, maybe it's 10% if he has a good – the last two months.
05:18Now, I'd be very skeptical.
05:19I was skeptical when they picked him up because of his injury history.
05:22Good for you.
05:23You were right.
05:24I got it wrong.
05:25Yeah, I didn't like it when they picked him up.
05:28I was okay when they got it.
05:29But then when he had a good first week, I was celebrating his great week.
05:32And if anyone sees that column, please burn it or something.
05:37We'll find it somewhere.
05:38One week.
05:39Well, you know what?
05:40I did the same thing with Lombardi.
05:41He's one week in, and I wrote – or less.
05:43It was two games in when I wrote how great he is.
05:45So I feel better about that one today because he's had a couple more games,
05:48so I'm feeling good.
05:49But, you know, I regret the Robert column.
05:53I mean, he needs to go somewhere else and not make $20 million.
05:57Right, right.
05:58And he won't anywhere else.
05:59So I think that part of it – like their offense, there's not as much of a lift.
06:04If Bichette comes back, they'd still have to fill some holes.
06:08My biggest concern has been and is in the rotation because –
06:12not because of McClain or Scott.
06:14I like what I've seen out of Thornton so far.
06:16I really felt they should have signed Holmes.
06:20You know, Peralta, who knows – can we just say –
06:23can we just chalk it up to it's New York,
06:25and we've seen this before where guys come to New York and it doesn't work
06:29and they were good before that.
06:31So, you know, and so, you know, when you kind of look at it from that angle,
06:35you go, all right, those are three good young players, not counting Peralta.
06:38I would have liked to have seen Holmes back.
06:39Like they could still re-sign him, but they need –
06:42the philosophy that David Cerns has had just doesn't work in New York.
06:47There's too many variables if you don't get a certain –
06:51some certainty in the rotation, like what the Yankees have
06:54and what the Dodgers have.
06:56And so, like, they have to sign Scoobel.
06:59I don't believe there's any other way out of this if they don't get Scoobel.
07:04And I – listen, I always hate throwing pressure on a guy who's been –
07:08you know, I've been in that job before.
07:10I'm always careful.
07:11You didn't have Steve Cohen's money behind you, though.
07:13I never did.
07:14Nobody does except for, like, one or two places, right?
07:17Right.
07:18The Dodgers.
07:19The Dodgers.
07:20They're the only team.
07:20So I really feel like of all the starters, they have to change that.
07:25They can do it for – they can make an exception.
07:26Well, how much are they going to give him?
07:27What are they going to do?
07:28Because he's with the Dodgers now, right?
07:31Now, he said he'd go back to Detroit.
07:33I mean, what's he going to say on the podcast?
07:35He's not – they offered him $65 million.
07:38Then they upped it to $75 million for four years.
07:41I mean, they're not in the ballpark.
07:45And that arbitration didn't leave a great taste in his mouth.
07:49And, you know, he's not going back to Detroit.
07:52I mean, what was he going to say on that podcast?
07:54He had to.
07:55It's got to be Dodgers, Mets.
07:57I mean, maybe there'll be a surprise, but basically those are the teams, right?
08:01I don't think anybody else is going to –
08:02I think it's a two-team race.
08:04That's what I think.
08:04In the free Asian market, you have to take your shot.
08:08Well, what kind of money are we talking about?
08:10You've got a really, really 50-50 shot, right?
08:13They have a 50-50 – maybe it skews more towards the Dodgers because of the winning, right?
08:18And he's there.
08:19And he's already there.
08:20So, okay, but again –
08:22They can butter him up for the next two months.
08:24They can tell him how –
08:24If it's two teams.
08:25Yeah, that's – I mean, take a shot at it.
08:27But it's going to have to be – listen, is it $400 million?
08:31Probably.
08:32Wow.
08:33It's a lot of money to give up.
08:35He's the best.
08:35I believe he's the best pitcher in baseball.
08:38I think Yamamoto's the second best.
08:40So if the Dodgers got him, they have the top – and they do have him now as top two
08:44pitchers.
08:45Right.
08:45Yeah, the Mets to get – to draw even, to get – not draw even, but to close the gap
08:50a little bit.
08:51Yeah.
08:52I mean, would the Dodgers go to that number?
08:55I mean, probably.
08:56Where is their limit?
08:57He does have a bit of it.
08:58And now he's throwing 100 after elbow surgery, right?
09:01I mean, he looks fantastic.
09:03Yeah, he looks good.
09:03But he does have three surgeries at this point, right?
09:06I mean –
09:07Right.
09:07And usually –
09:08Are you giving him $400 million?
09:10The bone chips are usually a precursor for something that potentially could be going on beyond that, right?
09:15So, like, we don't know that.
09:17He's already had a TJ.
09:19But you feel like there's another one that could be coming over this period of time.
09:24So, you know, do I want to spend $400 million on him?
09:27No.
09:27But, I mean, there's also – did I want to see this team lose over 90 games this year, spending,
09:33you know, almost $400 million if I was the owner of the Mets?
09:36No, I didn't want to see that either, right?
09:38So, I think there are – you asked me, how do they turn this thing around?
09:42That would be a huge way to do it.
09:44And can they do it in other ways?
09:46Of course.
09:47But, you know, there's more risk to it involved.
09:49And maybe they are better off doing – remember what the Cardinals did when they spread their money around
09:56when Pujols left to go to the Angels, right?
09:58They spend their money on – I think it was – they went and got Holiday.
10:00I think it was Beltran.
10:01My memory may be a little off on this.
10:03But they spread it around three different ways.
10:05And then that year, after Pujols left for the Angels, they got to the World Series again.
10:10Maybe that's the better way to do it, is spending it in that different way.
10:13But they have to spend money to get out of this.
10:16Yeah, it feels like they're in an immense hole, right?
10:19Immense hole because, really, they made five big moves last winter.
10:23And they're basically 0 for 5, right?
10:26I mean, Devin Williams has not been worth the $17 million either, right?
10:31So, Bichette, he looks good now.
10:34He was solid defensively.
10:36Good guy.
10:37I mean, you got a 700 OPS.
10:38That's not – that's not translated to $42 million, right?
10:42That's right.
10:42Obviously, we covered Robert, right?
10:44Palanto will be covered, yeah.
10:46Right.
10:46I mean – and Peralta.
10:48So, they basically went 0 for 5.
10:50That digs you a pretty big hole, and this free agent market is brutal, which that plays
10:56into Scooble even further, right?
10:58I mean, so that's part of the reason why he's going to get this enormous deal.
11:02I think it adds to it a little bit anyway.
11:05Well, how about going back three months earlier, like a year ago today at the deadline, then
11:11the Mets were 0 for the deadline too.
11:14So, it's not just 0 for 5.
11:14Well, wait, give them Rodgers.
11:16We'll give them Rodgers.
11:17The Mets will give, but everyone else, it didn't turn out well.
11:21He's been on some streak, yeah.
11:23That's a hard streak.
11:24Two winners in a row.
11:25I will say this.
11:26Minaya's making a surprising comeback.
11:28Yes.
11:29I know in the press box, we were talking about when are they going to release Minaya.
11:32Good thing they didn't.
11:33I mean, he had an outing that had the same stat line as Schlittler yesterday.
11:39That's right.
11:39So, maybe Minaya is the third pitcher, and maybe Thornton.
11:44So, that gives you four pitchers, right?
11:47You're going to need 10, probably, the way these things go, right?
11:50But maybe they have four starters, but they didn't do well from the positional standpoint
11:57either.
11:58They're going to have to get better there as well.
12:00I mean, Simeon's shown some things, but he's not been as good as Nimmo, right?
12:06No.
12:07You know, what do you think?
12:10It's the, what did they not factor in enough?
12:12Was it the New York ability to play in New York?
12:17Was it the reliability?
12:18I mean, those are two things that Pete gave you.
12:20Ability to play in New York and, boy, reliability.
12:23I mean, he's crazy.
12:24I mean, the guy flew out of his Jeep.
12:26I don't know, I don't actually know if he flew out, but he rolled over the Jeep, right?
12:31Or it wasn't his fault.
12:32Somebody ran a red light, hit him, rolled over, and he didn't miss a day of spring training.
12:37The guy is indestructible, and they didn't seem to value that.
12:42They looked at, oh, he's a big right-handed guy.
12:43He's going to go downhill, blah, blah, blah, whatever, and didn't go for it.
12:49Is there a mistake?
12:50They need to factor in New York reliability, because the only guys who've really done well
12:54for them, the only signings they did that did well were guys who played with the Yankees,
12:58right?
12:59Soto, Holmes, Weaver.
13:02Weaver, yeah.
13:03Yeah, I mean, there have been a few, right?
13:05Yeah.
13:05And Severino at first, right?
13:07Right.
13:08So, I don't know.
13:09Do they just have to sign guys from the Yankees?
13:11I don't know what they have to do.
13:12The Yankees cast-offs.
13:14No, I mean, I wouldn't say they're all cast-offs.
13:16But, no, to your point, going back to the wintertime and the spring, there was a lot
13:23of movement and a lot of new players to this team, right?
13:26And that takes some time to gel and come together.
13:30And when you get off to a slow start, and we've seen this with other teams in New York,
13:34you get off to a slow start, that bonding that you have with the team, you can throw it
13:38out the window, because guys are more worried about getting out of their funk that they're
13:42in, and I'm not going to say that they're selfish, but they become more introverted
13:48because they don't want to be booed.
13:51No one wants to be booed.
13:52So, they're trying to figure it out.
13:53The team concept kind of gets thrown out the window a little bit.
13:57So, I think there's some aspect of that, that kind of New York environment.
14:01Certainly, there's guys that have struggled in New York that have a hard time to start
14:05pressing.
14:05We've seen over our careers, we've seen a lot of that as well.
14:09But, you know, I think that not maybe having as much disruption this winter on that front
14:15would be helpful for the team going forward.
14:19Now, they've gotten all the firsts out of the way, the early struggles out of the way.
14:22You know, with Bichette, I think if Bichette does not opt out, which I still find it hard
14:25to believe that he will, because of the money that he'd be given away.
14:29Oh, he can't opt out.
14:29He can't.
14:30No way.
14:31He's got another opt out the following year, too.
14:33So, he'll have that option again.
14:35Right.
14:35I feel better about that, though, don't you?
14:36With the uncertainty of the CBA, he's got another $42 million a year for two more years
14:44in the bank.
14:44He's not going anywhere.
14:45There's no way.
14:46But I feel better about him in New York next year after watching him here.
14:50I do, too.
14:50He's looked good lately.
14:52He's looked really good.
14:53And he's been fine defensively.
14:55That move to third was not terrible.
14:57I think it's probably better for him, too.
15:00So, from that side of it, I think, you know, and again, staying healthy is going to be
15:04important, like it is every team, but I feel like they're better in that area than it seems
15:09on the surface.
15:10They're catching, you know, don't disrupt the catching aspect of it.
15:13That's been fine.
15:15You can add another offensive piece or two.
15:17It's just about the starting pitching.
15:18And like you said, Minaya, like the velocity is back.
15:21I feel better about him.
15:22But, man, if you don't have six quality starters, you know, ready to go, and I'm not even counting
15:29Thornton.
15:30I think they need two more, you know, and then Thornton's like your guy coming up from
15:33the minor leagues.
15:34If they can do that, they'll be in more games than they're not, at least early on.
15:38So, you know, and then who's going to manage the team, right?
15:41There's that aspect, too, which, you know, I know Andy Green said he doesn't want to do
15:44it, but you got to at least give him, you know, consideration if it's Beltran or whoever
15:49it's going to be.
15:50I said, go get Cora.
15:51If you can't get Cora, and I'm going to talk to Dave Dombrowski later about that.
15:57If you can't get Cora, bring Andy Green back.
16:00That's the way I would do it.
16:01I wouldn't do Beltran.
16:03He already had one stint.
16:04It wasn't very successful.
16:07I guess I can't really blame him for that completely, but it didn't last very long.
16:11In any case, that's my two cents on that.
16:13All right, let's switch over to the Yankees.
16:15What's the deal with them?
16:16Why can they not hit?
16:18Obviously, you miss Judge, you miss Stanton, you miss Bellinger now.
16:21But they have a very good lineup of players, right?
16:26I mean, shouldn't they be able to score some runs?
16:29What's going on there?
16:30You would think so.
16:31You know, I mean, they were below average at shortstop offensively, below average behind
16:35the plate, which is a mystery to me because Wells was supposed to be an offensive player.
16:41And then, you know, McMahon, we've seen he's not a big offensive player.
16:45He's more of a defender.
16:45So you're short three positions, and now you have your big guns that have been out for a while.
16:51You know, Grisham hasn't had a very good season.
16:54Lately, it hasn't been good.
16:55Like, when you look at the last, what was it, month and a half, two months, he's been bad, too.
17:01Goldschmidt has come back to the pack.
17:02Like, there's a lot of...
17:03Jazz.
17:04Jazz has not had a good season, right?
17:06There's so many players that have not had good seasons.
17:08So some of that is, you know, maybe over-eval.
17:12Well, but when you're missing those big offensive pieces, it's hard for them to be in the limelight
17:20of, you know, going from complementary players to players that you're relying on to win.
17:25I think...
17:26I thought they did a good job, even though a lot of people didn't like Garcia's fit.
17:30This guy can swing the bat and hit, and, you know, maybe they put him at second base a little
17:36bit,
17:36but first base DH, I'm okay with him as a left-hand hitter.
17:40The Ramos one, I'm not sure how that's going to work out.
17:43In theory, it seems like it should work because, you know, he hits lefties well and he can defend.
17:48But again, this is a complementary player.
17:50They have to hold a fort down until those big guys come back.
17:53Are they coming back?
17:54We believe they're coming back.
17:55It's a guessing game at this point, right?
17:57They can tell us all they want.
17:59They're optimistic.
18:00They feel good about it.
18:01I mean, he seems like the judge is able to do something now, I think, right?
18:05I mean, when they told us, I don't know, a month in or something,
18:08that he couldn't do a stationary bike.
18:11I mean, a stationary bike is for old men like me, right?
18:14I mean, that was not a good sign.
18:16For both of us.
18:16For both of us.
18:17Right.
18:17Yeah.
18:18Yeah.
18:18Well, and, you know, so now he can do some light stuff.
18:21And I talked to Cash yesterday about this.
18:24And, you know, the hard part is he hasn't been able, to your point,
18:27he hasn't been able to do anything.
18:28Now you have to ramp up.
18:29You don't want to rush him back where now he has a problem with something else.
18:35Blows out of hammy.
18:35Rushing him back.
18:37You can't rush him back.
18:38It's been so slow already.
18:40I think the word rush is over at this point, right?
18:42We were two and a half, two months into it at this point.
18:44I don't know.
18:45It didn't sound like he was going to be back for another month.
18:49Yeah.
18:50I mean, that's a long time.
18:51Now Bellinger sounds like maybe sooner than that.
18:53Yeah.
18:54Bellinger, I think.
18:54I saw Bellinger hitting at the stadium the other day.
18:57Yeah.
18:57I mean, he's doing stuff.
18:59You know, they said six weeks.
19:01And I think it'll be six weeks.
19:03And that's it.
19:04But the other two, Stanton and Judge, are in this race.
19:07It's like a race between two tortoises.
19:10No offense to them.
19:11I mean, who knows whether we're going to get either back.
19:15I mean, if they're going to really do anything, they probably need Judge.
19:19I mean, I don't want to say definitely.
19:20Because look at the three pitchers you threw against Atlanta, right?
19:24If you've got Free, Cole, and Schlittler in a playoff, and they'll be in the playoffs.
19:31I mean, the American League's not good.
19:33They'll be in the playoffs, even if Boston does pass them.
19:37You know, so I'm not going to say that they're dead without Judge.
19:40But I mean, obviously, it's a huge blow.
19:42He's the best player in the league.
19:44But don't they have to play the long game like the Dodgers have over the last two seasons, right?
19:48The Dodgers had problems with their bullpen last year, right?
19:53And they got through it with basically strength of the rotation and putting starters in the bullpen.
19:59Two years ago, they had all those starters that were hurt, you know, and they slow rolled it and got
20:04a couple of them healthy towards the end.
20:06But you knew they were getting in.
20:09I feel like with Judge, they have to kind of do that same type of mentality, right?
20:14Just slow roll it, wait until he's completely 100% right, because they're getting in, to your point.
20:19They just need Judge healthy, the way I would view it.
20:21Yeah, I'd say you're right.
20:22I think you're right.
20:23I mean, it would be nice if he got a couple weeks in September to play.
20:27I mean, maybe I'm being pessimistic, but, you know, if he gets a month, great.
20:30That's plenty of time.
20:31But, I mean, if he comes out there September 20th or something like that, I'm like, is he going to
20:38be ready to be in the playoffs?
20:40I'm not convinced.
20:41That's not ideal, right, for sure.
20:43So, I don't know.
20:44Who do you think is coming out of these leagues?
20:46I don't know.
20:47I mean, it feels like the National League has the four best teams, I think.
20:50Yeah, I agree with you.
20:52I don't know.
20:52Boston, streaky.
20:54Yes.
20:55You know, obviously they were on a great streak there, but then they lost two games to Oakland.
20:59Sorry, Sacramento.
21:01They're good.
21:02They'll be in the playoffs.
21:03They'll be in.
21:05Yankees are in.
21:06Rays.
21:06I don't know.
21:06Who do you think is coming out of there?
21:09At the moment, I'm going to guess Dodgers, Red Sox are going to come out.
21:14But, I mean, I don't know.
21:16It's one of these years Milwaukee's going to have to do something in the playoffs, right?
21:20I mean, they're the best team in the regular season.
21:23It's very weird.
21:25It seems like they made a comparable offer for Schuble, it looks like, to me, from what
21:30the reports are, right?
21:32With Pena and two other guys, including Jet Williams, in the top 100.
21:36They made a run.
21:38They did try.
21:39But right now, they got the Miz.
21:41You got Harrison.
21:44Yeah.
21:45They just haven't done it in the playoffs.
21:47I don't know.
21:48The one thing I wonder about, John, is this.
21:51So, right now, the Dodgers are the third seed in the NL.
21:55That means they don't get the bye.
21:57And I know they've won the World Series a lot of bye, right?
22:00But to have the, you know, the offense right now looks a little bit run down, a little bit
22:06older.
22:06And we saw that last year, too.
22:08And they still won it.
22:08But what I wonder is, all right, if you get Milwaukee in that second round, and you have
22:14to face Mizorowski, and then, well, I don't know what you're going to see out of
22:17Harrison, but that, you know, that rested pitching, is this the year that the Dodgers
22:24would be somewhat vulnerable?
22:26I feel like it's possible.
22:28I would not have said this a month ago, but just recently, you know, you just never know
22:33as we've seen it.
22:34Yeah, I mean, they haven't looked good, but they lost 17 of 18, believe it or not.
22:38One in 17 going into the 2017, and late in the season, I think it was in August, late
22:43August, and September, and they were the best team in the World Series, not counting the
22:47Trash Strohs, who actually won the World Series that year in seven games against the Dodgers.
22:53But, you know, in my mind, you could call the Dodgers champions then.
22:56So, yeah, the Dodgers don't play to win in the regular season, really, completely.
23:01They don't go all out.
23:02They're kind of slow playing Snell.
23:04I think they're probably slow playing Glass now.
23:07They have that luxury to do it at full strength.
23:09If you've got Skubal, Yamamoto, Snell, Glass now, and we'll see about Otani, we don't know
23:16at this point if he's coming back.
23:19You know, they're the favorite.
23:20It's hard to compete with that group.
23:22Yeah, I mean, if you've got four out of the five, you're the favorite.
23:26So what do you think on the last thing before we wrap this up?
23:30MVP, what's your thoughts on that with Pete Crowe, Armstrong, and Otani?
23:34It's going to be a fascinating one.
23:35I don't have the vote, so I can talk openly on this.
23:38I've already gotten people mad at me, but go ahead.
23:41You give your take on it.
23:42Okay, good.
23:42Well, you know, listen, I love what PCA has done.
23:45Pete Crowe, it's a great story, what he's been able to do as an offensive player and
23:50his defense, too.
23:51I mean, he affects both sides from that side of things.
23:53I just find it hard to believe, and you've had this vote before, so, you know, for me,
23:59what ends up, I wonder, is you had Otani, who's pitching so well in the first half.
24:05Yeah, he was in the conversation to win the Cy Young.
24:09That's how good the pitching was.
24:10And he's still hitting as well as he is.
24:13I just find it hard to believe, unless he has a downturn or he goes on the injury list
24:17because of the knee or any of that.
24:20I find it hard.
24:21It's hard to vote against him.
24:23I thought last year, Cal Raleigh, you could have voted for him over Aaron Judge for the
24:29position, the catcher and all that.
24:30It didn't go his way.
24:32I feel like it's going to be hard to go other than Otani if things stay the way that they
24:38do.
24:38You're saying, what if he doesn't come back and pitch?
24:40I mean, he's throwing-
24:40If he doesn't come back to pitch, it's a little different.
24:42It evens it up.
24:42Yeah, he's throwing a great half year.
24:44I mean, my thing, and I got hit, at least from the Cubs fans on MLB Network, the war
24:52is not really accurate in my estimation.
24:55Right now, Otani has a 3.4 war for his offense, and Pete Crow Armstrong has a 6.1 war.
25:03So his war is 80% better somehow, yet they have exactly the same number of home runs.
25:08I think it's 26 or 27.
25:10They got 71 RBIs, they're within one or two points on everything, or maybe three points,
25:16batting average, slug, on base, OPS.
25:19Otani's maybe, I think, one point better on OPS, something like that.
25:24So they have almost exact, you couldn't find two guys with more similar stats, yet Pete
25:29Crow Armstrong has a 6.1 war, and Otani 3.4.
25:33So I don't believe war.
25:34That's not accurate.
25:35I know he has 30 stolen bases, but that doesn't give you 2.7 points in war.
25:44No, no, no.
25:44So I don't know exactly.
25:45Defense factors into it.
25:47It's just the offensive war.
25:48Just the offensive war.
25:50It's 6.1 to 3.4.
25:52I don't know how it's figured out.
25:53So I don't believe the war.
25:54If you go by the war, Pete Crow Armstrong has a fairly significant lead, and I think a lot
26:01of people will.
26:01And if the vote is today, I actually think he would win.
26:05I think he would win.
26:06And he's been amazing.
26:08He deserves an MVP.
26:10But a half season of starting pitcher is extremely valuable.
26:15This is why starting pitchers get $40 million.
26:17You don't get $40 million to be a great defense.
26:20And he's the best.
26:21He's the best defensive outfielder.
26:22But did Kevin Kirk Kiermaier ever get $40 million?
26:26Or who's the guy on the Nats?
26:29Young and $40 million?
26:30No, no, no.
26:31These guys, it's not a $40 million job.
26:34Now, Pete Crow Armstrong's been incredible offensively, at least the equal of Otani.
26:39And he's been incredible defensively.
26:41And I like the narrative.
26:42I mean, he's really sparked the team as soon as he got a lead off.
26:45He's got a lot of flair to him.
26:46I get all that.
26:47But I really, you know, if a guy's a starting pitcher, I don't care if we've seen it for
26:52the last few years.
26:52If he's a starting pitcher throughout, I mean, it's tough to beat that, in my opinion.
26:57Now, if he doesn't come back, you know, we'll see.
27:00And at that point, we'll see.
27:01But it is quite a great debate.
27:05No doubt.
27:05No doubt.
27:06Otani's starting to progress.
27:07He's starting to throw again.
27:08So maybe he's back the last three or four starts away at the win.
27:12So it's going to be interesting.
27:14And he's probably not going to catch Pete in war.
27:17And a lot of people go for that.
27:19So, I mean, I'm on the wrong side every year.
27:22I thought Raleigh was the MVP last year.
27:24So don't go by me.
27:25Do the opposite.
27:26It's like I'm Costanza or something like that.
27:28By the way, before we go, what about the Lombard?
27:30I mean, unbelievable, right?
27:32Oh, I love it.
27:32I love it.
27:32It's a great story.
27:33He looks fantastic, right?
27:34I love the defense.
27:35His defense is legit.
27:37He's got a better arm than I thought, too.
27:38I've seen him video in person once, and I didn't think that he had that type of arm.
27:45Making the play in the hole the other day, throwing the ball from the basically jump throw, right?
27:51And in the air, that was impressive.
27:53And the offenses look great.
27:54The one thing we know this.
27:56He's not going to be phased by New York, right?
27:58There's the value of him being in the organization.
28:02And we know because of the old man, he's been around the game a long time.
28:05You've seen him around I have, too.
28:06Like, he's been – this guy, it's a special family.
28:10But, you know, again, is he going to be the long-term guy for the Yankees?
28:14I hope so.
28:15It's a great look.
28:17But it's been a nice first couple of games for him.
28:20And certainly, you can feel good about him for the rest of the season at short.
28:24I guess we'll have to wait and see.
28:25I think there's plenty of things to like with the bat.
28:28I'm just not sure that – we've seen swing and miss out of him in the minor leagues.
28:32That's my only reservation about saying – anointing him the guy for – and I was a Volpe fan back
28:39then when he first came up.
28:40So, I'm – you know, we want to talk about taking the opposite.
28:43You know, I thought Volpe would be the long-term guy, and he hasn't.
28:46So, I'm withholding judgment on Lombard right now.
28:50Right.
28:50Well, very good.
28:52You're a very rational fellow, and I appreciate that.
28:55I think Lombard is in.
28:56And I did say this about – well, Volpe too, but hopefully nobody remembers that.
29:00I think Lombard's the guy for years to come.
29:02All right, Jim.
29:03I appreciate you.
29:04You're terrific.
29:05You have to run right now to do a job.
29:08I've got Dave Dombrowski, the president of the Philadelphia Phillies, coming up for a nice interview.
29:15And then Jim will be back to do Hit or Error later on the show with John Heyman and Jim
29:20Duquette.
29:26All right.
29:26It is my pleasure to welcome Dave Dombrowski, the president of Baseball Operations of the Philadelphia Phillies.
29:33Dave, it's been on the show a number of times.
29:35Really appreciate it, Dave.
29:37Welcome to the show.
29:38Thanks, John.
29:39Thanks for having me.
29:40Appreciate it.
29:41So, I know we talked a little bit beforehand.
29:44You're in St. Louis.
29:45You are very, very dedicated, as you've always been in your nearly four-decade career as a baseball general manager
29:52or now baseball president.
29:54Obviously following the Phillies around.
29:57Looking at the standings now, National League is a little tougher than the American League.
30:00You're kind of in a dogfight with Arizona, San Diego, and still hoping for the division.
30:06Where do you see the Phillies standing right now?
30:09Well, we are in a dogfight.
30:11That's where for the wild card race.
30:12I mean, the Braves, I'm sure you always hope to catch them.
30:15We got close for a while.
30:16But after the All-Star break, we've stumbled a little bit, and they've played better.
30:20So, we won a very big game yesterday, which was important for us.
30:25But we're in a battle.
30:26I think the Cubs have pretty much solidified themselves for one of the wild card spots if they don't catch
30:31the Brewers.
30:31And then you've got a bunch of clubs after that.
30:34Arizona and ourselves are tied, San Diego right behind.
30:37And there's still a handful of other clubs that are within three or four games.
30:41So, I mean, every day is a big game for us, and we just need to go out there and
30:44win as many ballgames as we possibly can.
30:46Where are you now relative to your expectations heading into the season?
30:50Did you expect the team to be doing better than this?
30:53Well, we haven't played quite as well overall from a record perspective as I thought we would.
30:58It's been a little bit more of a struggle.
31:00We started off poorly, as we know.
31:03We were 9-19 at one time.
31:05So, that was hard to explain based upon our personnel.
31:08We just came out slow out of the gate.
31:11We decided to make a managerial change at that time.
31:14We played better for an extended period.
31:17Basically, over the last six weeks, couple months, we've been basically a 500-type club.
31:22Keep looking for us to really get it all together at one time.
31:26At times, our start in pitching has been absolutely outstanding,
31:29particularly our big three.
31:31Our bullpen's been up and down.
31:33We've got a tremendous closer, but been up and down.
31:35Though I think probably the biggest surprise for me is how we've scuffled the score runs on a consistent basis.
31:42We've been better over the last time period, the last, I'd say, month even in that regard.
31:48But early in the year, we were near the bottom, and it really kind of surprised me
31:51because we have a lot of good offensive players.
31:53But as a whole, we just didn't click at that time.
31:56Tell me about the trade deadline.
31:58Your best three offensive players are left-handed hitters, obviously Harper, Schwarber, and Marsh.
32:05And you ended up getting Luis Arise, who's left-handed.
32:08But, I mean, he hits both lefties and righties.
32:11What was it like for you?
32:12I noticed some other teams were looking for righty bats,
32:15and there just weren't many out there or really any out there.
32:19What were your other options?
32:20And were you pretty pleased to get Arise, who's really turned into a good two-way player now?
32:26Well, we were happy to get Arise, but going into the All-Star break and then coming out of it
32:31and going into the trading deadline, our real thought process is we'd like to come up with
32:35a right-hand hitting bat if we could.
32:38And really, for us, it would have to be in the outfield because our infield was pretty well set.
32:42So for us, that's what we were trying to acquire.
32:45But the reality was there are just not many people out there, if any, as you mentioned.
32:50There were a couple of guys that we liked that we thought were more platoon-type outfielders.
32:57And we felt somebody like Brian De La Cruz, who just came up in our organization for the month of
33:01July,
33:01was pretty comparable to those type of bats.
33:05So we were open-minded to try to help our offense any way we possibly could.
33:09And we explored all those different opportunities.
33:11The other thing that comes into play in this situation is that there are very few clubs
33:15who are really looking to move players.
33:17I think there's still 21 clubs within five games of a playoff spot at this time.
33:23So as we looked at that players available list, we just didn't see that impact right-handed bat
33:30that we could acquire.
33:31So that's where we just, how could we get better offensively?
33:34And it led us to Luis Arise, who was leading the league in hitting, somebody that we liked.
33:38And I think the key is he hits lefties and righties for us.
33:42It makes our lineup deeper at this time.
33:44And so we kind of, we had to really adjust on the fly there because that wasn't our immediate goal.
33:51But we thought it gave us the best opportunity to improve our ball club.
33:55It also took some positional switches with our team, which was very unique.
33:59But when we approached it, Bryce Harper helped out a great deal in that regard,
34:03volunteering to go to the outfield.
34:05We finally, after a couple of years, have taken him up on it and moved him to right.
34:09And he's adjusted very well out there.
34:11That gives us a big plus in right field in the outfield that we didn't have with his bat.
34:17And then the adjustments we felt on the other parts of the infield.
34:20Arise is a very good second baseman.
34:22So is Bryson Stott.
34:24Bryson Stott's just a very good player.
34:26He can play short.
34:27And he's adjusted to third base.
34:28He played it before in the past.
34:30So he adjusted to third base.
34:31And then moving Boehm over to first base.
34:33So we didn't think we would really much, much defensively once they get adjusted to their
34:39new positions.
34:40And that really has been the case even in a very short time period.
34:43So that's how we ended up with the rise.
34:45And there just were not the right-handed bats out there that we had hoped there would be.
34:50Yeah, that is a lot of defensive switching.
34:53It's all been pretty seamless, though, so far from what you can tell.
34:57So far it has.
34:58Yes, so far it has been.
34:59I give the guys credit.
35:00They went into it with an open mind.
35:03It was, of course, something that we wanted to communicate before we tried all these things
35:07because you don't want to all of a sudden wake up one day and you say to Bryce Harper,
35:11oh, we're moving you to right field without talking it through, even though he had down
35:14to hear it.
35:15But Don Mattingly visited with him.
35:17Bryce reached out to me and said it was fine.
35:18We talked to Bryce and stopped beforehand.
35:20And boom.
35:21So it was all a lot of communication.
35:23And surprisingly, they have adjusted pretty quickly on it.
35:28And a lot of it's been the hard work and effort that they put in.
35:31You see him going out there before the game, working immediately with Bobby Dickerson, our
35:36infield coach.
35:37And so I think it's made us a better club.
35:40Our offense has been improved.
35:42So hopefully we can keep that up.
35:45And the one thing, surprisingly for us over the last few weeks, is that our starting pitch,
35:50which is our real strength, hasn't been quite as good.
35:54And I look for that to bounce back.
35:56But we've got shorter starts from some of our guys than we normally do.
36:00So it makes your bullpen more vulnerable.
36:02You're using them a lot more.
36:03And so hopefully that will adjust to where it normally has been.
36:08And I think that it will.
36:09You mentioned Harper.
36:12I wanted to ask you how things are going with him.
36:14Obviously, you said something in the winter that was taken hard, apparently, or maybe he
36:19was just a little annoyed.
36:20I don't know.
36:21Tell me how you read it, that Harper didn't have an elite season last year.
36:26You know, he didn't have his usual season.
36:29That's true on his face.
36:30But he obviously wasn't expecting it.
36:33And I don't know.
36:34I wanted to ask you whether you were trying to get a rise, no pun intended, a rise, two
36:39words, out of him, whether you're just speaking honestly, answering a question or what.
36:44And how is your relationship now with Bryce?
36:48Because I know he had the elite t-shirt or read that.
36:51And, you know, you know how superstars are.
36:54They're not used to hearing any negativity or at least perceived negativity.
36:59Sure.
36:59No offense, John.
37:00We've talked through that one.
37:01I've talked through it many times throughout the year.
37:03That one's over and it's done.
37:04I have a good relationship with Bryce.
37:06We've talked here during this time period.
37:08He reached out to me about various events.
37:11We're trying to help us with the ball club and different thought processes.
37:15We've had a chance to talk and visit a long time ago about that.
37:18So I think we're all on the same page to try to win a world championship and to do it
37:22together.
37:22So that's our real goal at this time.
37:24Yeah, and Bryce actually came out before the deadline and said, we need to get do some
37:30things or whatever.
37:31And Don Mattingly kind of suggested he didn't really love that because it kind of reflected
37:34on a couple of the players.
37:36He was considering their feelings.
37:39How did you take that?
37:40As the guy who needed to do things in his words, did you take that as a, I mean, this
37:45is something that, you know, we've been doing this for a long time.
37:47Guys do that, used to do that all the time.
37:49Uh, now I guess, you know, we're all sensitive and, uh, you know, I guess it does kind of
37:55reflect on some of the other guys.
37:57Uh, how did you take that for the other guys and for yourself?
38:00Well, I think it's two different factors.
38:02You mean, um, first of all, he was speaking from the heart and how he felt, um, and from
38:07Don respect, you'd have to ask Don in that case, but I think it was really a situation
38:11where he was always sensitivity to teammates.
38:14I don't think Bryce was saying it along those lines, but I know from my own perspective, I did
38:19not take it and did not feel it was personal.
38:21And the reality of it is, um, I've been through the trading deadlines a long time.
38:26That's what we were trying to do anyway.
38:27So we're trying to get our club better, try to get it happen.
38:30And sometimes when you lose, you get frustrations, you say different things.
38:34Sometimes you say things publicly.
38:35I've done it myself.
38:36I, I often say for me, as many years as I've done this in the game, if I was a
38:43manager
38:43and had to address the media immediately after the game, 10 minutes.
38:48I wouldn't be very good at it because my emotions are on my sleeve at that time.
38:53And I need to settle down and it would be a learned skill.
38:56And then in 20 minutes or 25 minutes, I'm fine in dealing with those things.
39:00So sometimes emotions speak.
39:03And, and really for me, um, it had no effect because we are already working on those type
39:08of things, you know, months in advance.
39:10And we had addressed different things that we know that we needed to do.
39:14So the reality is that's what we were already trying to do.
39:17And I've tried to do that every time at the trading deadline.
39:19And hopefully you've been able to achieve it with some of the acquisitions we've made.
39:23Yeah.
39:24You, you, you're not one who needs to be encouraged to, uh, make trades to improve the ball club.
39:28So, uh, yeah, I think I'm sure you were working on quite diligently.
39:32And last year you got Duran, who's been terrific as the closer and you have a history of making
39:37trades for great players, whether it be, uh, sale price, whomever, um, Don Mattingly, how's
39:43he done?
39:44I know he, it's kind of suggested he wouldn't mind continuing doing this at some point.
39:48Um, although I saw him at the all-star game, he didn't say anything like that to me, but
39:52he was mostly interested in the all-star game at that moment.
39:55And, and the Phillies continuing on, he didn't want to talk about himself, but, uh, how's
39:59he done so far and, uh, could he be back next year?
40:03Well, he's done great for us by all means.
40:05He's really helped turn us around.
40:06We were nine and 19 at the time in which he took over.
40:08We're now in a position where if the season ended today, we'd be in a playoff spot.
40:12We were far from that at that time.
40:14So he's helped a great deal with the ball club.
40:16We played well under him all in all.
40:19I mean, the last, like I said, six weeks or so have been a 500 club, but he's done a
40:24really
40:24good job at steadying the ship for us and making sure we're playing to the best of our
40:27capabilities.
40:28And as far as the future is concerned, that's something that we tackle at the end of the
40:32season.
40:32Haven't really given it much thought.
40:34And I'm not sure from Don's perspective, even I read the one comment, but really our
40:38focus has always been, let's, let's deal with this year.
40:41Let's try to win this year.
40:42Let's try to win a world championship together.
40:44And let's hope we're celebrating at the end of the season.
40:47Yeah.
40:47One thing I think you're very good at beyond player procurement is picking the managers.
40:51Obviously you've hired Jim Leland a couple of times, but, uh, Rob Thompson worked, uh,
40:56when you hired him and Mattingly has worked so far, you did try to hire Alex Cora, who
41:01you want a world series, one of your two world series championship, you've been in the world
41:04series five times, which I should have mentioned at the beginning with four different teams.
41:08So that's pretty darn impressive.
41:09But you did try to hire Alex Cora, uh, and he wanted to take the summer, uh, to be with
41:15his family, which is only admirable.
41:17Um, what are your thoughts, uh, would you think, uh, Cora could be a possibility for the
41:22Phillies, uh, down the road?
41:24Well, we really haven't thought anything.
41:26Like I said about that, Alex Cora did a great job for us in Boston.
41:29He's to me, a very good big league manager.
41:31He's a friend of mine at this point, but, uh, really all of those things are for future
41:35topics at the end of the season.
41:38And really we haven't gotten into those at all because I don't think that it's ever
41:41good to not focus on what we need to do, which is right here on the field.
41:45So, uh, tremendous person.
41:47And when you mentioned those good managers, he's right in that same topic of conversation,
41:51but, uh, we'll wait and see what happens after the season goes as far as, uh, the Phillies
41:56in 2027.
41:57Back to Mattingly for a second.
41:59Uh, his son is your, uh, assistant basically as a general manager of the team.
42:04Uh, that's a little unusual.
42:06How is that dynamic working out?
42:08Uh, does Mattingly realize that his son is one of his bosses or how does that work?
42:14Yeah, well, it is unusual.
42:16There's no question.
42:17It's never been done before, but I think because of the character of both individuals, it's had
42:22a chance to work out in the very beginning and it has done that.
42:25Um, Preston is an outstanding, uh, baseball man.
42:28Uh, he's helped me a great deal, helped the organization a great deal.
42:31He'll be head of baseball operations for many years to come, uh, his relationship with his
42:38father.
42:38It's unique because we do have a professional relationship.
42:41We, we have conversations on a daily basis.
42:44We talk about different things and, uh, Don gives Preston the courtesy of being his boss
42:50at that time, you know, as he would.
42:51Um, but then there's also a time where they can have a nice relationship as father and son.
42:57And, uh, it's, it's tremendous to see that they have that opportunity to do that, but it's one of
43:02those where they're both cognizant of not overstepping any type of bounds in their, in their jobs.
43:08They, they realize that there's nothing that's spoken in the clubhouse that between Don and
43:12individual that he brings to Preston, nor me, that's the type of respect that he has with
43:17if something's confidential.
43:19So it's unique it's, um, but it's worked, it's worked well and they work together very
43:24well.
43:24And I think it really, again, two outstanding baseball people, but also two outstanding
43:29individuals with high moral and character.
43:31And so, uh, it's been able to work very well.
43:34Uh, you, you've been known to be aggressive at the trade deadline and make a lot of bold
43:39trades.
43:39You did pick up two relievers along with the rise.
43:41You didn't really address the pitching.
43:43You have a big, a big three.
43:45That's really a terrific, uh, one of the best in baseball, which, uh, could bode well, uh,
43:51assuming it, or if you make the playoffs, cause it is tough in the national league.
43:55Um, uh, how aggressively did you pursue, uh, the starting pitching market?
44:01Um, and, uh, do you have any concerns at this?
44:04I mean, Aaron Nola just got his 2000 strikeout.
44:06He's a, he's a been a remarkable Philly, just a great, great Philly.
44:10One of two, I think, uh, Phillies to get 2000 strikeouts.
44:13Uh, but his ERA is, is up over five again this year.
44:18Um, do you have concerns about Nola at this point going forward?
44:22And did you look pretty, uh, aggressively at the starting pitching market?
44:26Well, two different, uh, Aaron Nola actually, um, in recent times has thrown the ball well
44:30for us.
44:31I mean, he's not a top of the rotation one type of guy at this point, um, but he still
44:36pitched very well for us in recent time periods.
44:39I think he's had to make one of those guys that have more adjustments with the ABS system
44:43than most because he lives on the edges and some of those strikes that might've been called
44:48in the past have not been, but his stuff is still solid.
44:51So he's done a nice job for us in that regard.
44:54Um, our fifth starter, that's really been an issue for us, um, early in the year did not
44:59perform very well.
45:01Um, we ended up releasing Tyon Walker at one time.
45:04Um, we were in a position, Andrew Painter came up to us and, and Andrew has had his
45:09ups and downs, but, um, and really scuffled for a while since he went down to AAA, he pitched
45:17his last two games that were very good.
45:18He's pitched two good games for us now.
45:20Um, we feel very encouraged.
45:22He has quality stuff.
45:23He's still in averages in the upper nineties with premium break and stuff.
45:27So there's been some adjustments needed to be made with his delivery in order to throw
45:31more consistent strikes, have better command of the pitches.
45:33And, and he's been doing that.
45:35So with that said, we did try to still pursue starting pitching.
45:40And I think there's different qualities of starting pitchers out there.
45:44One is, okay, are you talking about a guy who would definitely be one of your top five
45:49guys in your rotation?
45:51Uh, and then that would move Andrew Painter down to AAA.
45:55We explored some of those, um, probably not as hard as some other clubs would have done
46:01because we felt our top three guys are still set.
46:05And we felt that when we talked about those, that the price of acquisition of those individuals
46:09were very, very high.
46:11And really in our situation, we didn't think merited the return that they were looking to
46:16other organizations felt differently in their situations, maybe understandably.
46:20As far as then where you got to the fifth starter on your club, that was really a hard question
46:27for us to, to look at, because for us, we, we said, okay, if we get this guy, we pay
46:33a
46:33price to get them.
46:35Well, they may not be as good as Andrew Painter right now.
46:38So we'd send Painter down to AAA for a guy who wouldn't give us a good, a chance to win
46:43at the major league level.
46:45So we ultimately decided to not do that with the guys that were available.
46:49Um, a little bit concerned about our starting pitch and death.
46:53We do have a guy that's pitched well for us at AAA and come up in, in Allen around
46:57how, uh, for us this year.
46:58So he's, he does give us some depth and we've been able to piece meal that together, but
47:02we're vulnerable.
47:03Like a lot of people, if you have injuries at the wrong spots, and hopefully these five
47:07guys can stay healthy and go out there and pitch well for us because if they do, uh,
47:11it's a real strength for us.
47:12And we think that they can do that.
47:14Yeah, your top three is excellent with, uh, Sanchez, Wheeler, and Lizardo, who you signed
47:19to an extension.
47:20Did, did you at least make the call on, I guess I would probably assume anybody in the
47:24race, did you make the call on school bowl, but figure it wasn't likely to happen as it
47:29wasn't a priority and it was going to take a lot.
47:32Well, I mean, we called on anybody, anybody that was a pending free agent without getting
47:36into specifics, but you can just, uh, by that word, by the wording, just know that I
47:40think you'd properly do your job by touching base with everybody.
47:44And so when you're at that time with us, we had 29 other organizations that we were in
47:48touch, had a pulse of what was taking place.
47:50Some organizations didn't like our players as well as they liked other organizations.
47:55Some of them, we just decided we didn't want to give up what they were asking at that particular
47:59time.
47:59And it was really, uh, which was unusual for me this year is that two month rentals brought
48:06back more than they normally do.
48:08And so for me, that was a difficult situation when you looked at our scenario and said, we're
48:14going to give all that up for a guy for two months that may not pitch for us in the
48:18post
48:18season.
48:19That was a difficult one.
48:20Now we still have to get there.
48:21So that was the choice between the two, but we touch base with everybody.
48:25And, um, unfortunately we didn't make a move, but hopefully again, our guys, if they stay
48:30healthy, we feel very confident that they'll pitch well for us.
48:33Yeah.
48:33I'm not sure you want, what you want to say about it.
48:35It's kind of come out since that Milwaukee made a good offer or at least quote unquote,
48:40good offer for school bowl.
48:42And that the Yankees were in there.
48:43Uh, you never really, uh, got close there.
48:47You never really felt like there was a, probably not a priority for you anyways.
48:52Yeah.
48:52Well, we talked to them, like I said, but it was not a situation where we're going back
48:56and forth.
48:56It was very cut and dry what they would like in a trade.
48:59And, and I think there were other people that were probably much more aggressive in
49:03that situation than we were just due to the circumstance we've discussed.
49:07Something I probably should have said at the open, but Joel usually does the introduction,
49:10but I do want to mention, uh, Dave Dombrowski has, uh, made the world series five times,
49:16five times with four different clubs.
49:18Is that a record?
49:19Do you know, is that must be a record four different clubs in the world series.
49:22I assume it is, but I don't, I don't know that.
49:24That's pretty good.
49:25Well, it's gotta be a record, uh, and one, two world series, right?
49:30So you've had a hall of fame career.
49:32Uh, I do want to ask you, uh, your contract, at least publicly stated has another year to
49:37go.
49:38Uh, you're still a young man.
49:39You still have very good hair as we see in a good shape.
49:43Uh, how are you looking at your future right now?
49:46And I, and I think you were dabbling with not dabbling.
49:49You're probably working, not knowing you, you were probably working hard at one point
49:52on, on, uh, Nashville.
49:54Is that still something that's in your, uh, mirror, something that you could look at in
49:59the future or what, uh, but are, are you planning on being a general manager beyond the next
50:05year?
50:06Well, I, I like very much what I'm doing and very much, uh, the Phillies have been great
50:10with me.
50:10Enjoy working with John Middleton.
50:12The organization's tremendous.
50:13Love being in Philadelphia and the organization, the people with whom I work.
50:17So hopefully that will last beyond, uh, next year and my health.
50:22And fortunately at this time allows me to do it.
50:24And I, again, still have the passion and love for it.
50:27And if I didn't, I would quit doing it because the reality is it's, it takes a lot, um, but
50:32I, I enjoy doing it.
50:33So in that case, you, you drive forward.
50:36And I think, um, again, the health allows me to do so.
50:40Nashville, I think is going to be a friend, uh, a city that gets a major league franchise
50:44whenever it gets to that point that they start discussing expansion.
50:47I think probably at this point, um, it's been a long time since I've been involved, even
50:51though I have friends there and, and still have, we still have a home there, but I would
50:56think that's beyond where I am at this time because I'm happy with the Phillies organization.
51:00And hopefully if I continue to stay in the game, uh, ownership allows me to do that.
51:05It'll be in Philadelphia with the Phillies.
51:07All right.
51:07Very good, Dave.
51:08I really appreciate you joining me.
51:10You've come on many times and do it a last minute.
51:13Uh, thank you so much and, uh, good luck the rest of the way.
51:17I really do appreciate it.
51:18We've got, uh, Jim Duquette coming back, uh, to do hit or error.
51:23He's been, he's been, uh, working on his, his regular job at, uh, MLB network radio for
51:29these minutes.
51:30So he wasn't able to join us.
51:31I apologize for that, but he'll be back, uh, for the rest of the show.
51:34But thank you very much, Dave.
51:36Thanks, John.
51:36Thanks for having me.
51:37Give, please give Jim my best.
51:38All right.
51:39I will.
51:39Thanks.
51:40Thanks, Dave.
51:40Take care.
51:47All right.
51:48It's time for hit or error.
51:49We're going to have a guest here, do our hit or error.
51:51I don't know if we've done that too often, maybe once or twice, but, uh, hit or error,
51:56Jim, uh, you, what say you, all right, I'm going to go, I'm going to go error, um, for
52:03the Detroit Tigers on trading Tarek Scooble.
52:06I would not have traded Tarek Scooble.
52:07You were this far.
52:08Like if I was going to trade Scooble, I'm going to re litigate this with you.
52:11I would have done it last winter when you could have affected your team in a positive
52:16way.
52:16You could have gotten what, um, you know, whatever you got this, uh, deadline.
52:20I don't think you would have gotten, um, worse than this.
52:24You've only gotten more if you had made them available to other teams last year.
52:28Um, and you could have built around that, you know, the team.
52:31And I didn't think that they're out of it.
52:33And they're clearly not out of it.
52:35When you look at where they are now, they, they're, they're more in it than, than some
52:39of the other teams in the division.
52:40In fact, I think I like their chances to, to, uh, to beat out Cleveland, probably beat out
52:46Minnesota and maybe chase down the white socks.
52:48So, uh, you know, this has been a hotly debated, uh, I just didn't think, you know, would I
52:54have traded mys?
52:55Yes, I would have traded mys, but I would have held on to Scooble.
52:58So I'm giving the Tigers and E.
53:00I like that.
53:01I like that.
53:02Starting off with an error.
53:03I like that.
53:04Uh, look, the Tigers right now, they're only a game and a half out of the wild card.
53:08They're only two games under, and they have the best run differential in the American
53:12league.
53:12It's better than the Yankees in the race.
53:14Uh, they have a good team.
53:15Obviously you got Joe back now.
53:17You've got, uh, Milton, uh, doing well.
53:19If you had Scooble, uh, maybe you do something, uh, look, it may be a repeat of 2024.
53:25They may sneak in there.
53:26Uh, are they a world series, uh, contender?
53:30I don't think so anyway, but Hey, uh, I get what you're saying.
53:34Uh, I think that's what Scott Harris said too.
53:37He doesn't, he doesn't think they're a world series, even with Scooble.
53:40That's what he was telling us.
53:40Maybe that's the difference.
53:43It's hard to debate that.
53:43Like 2024, they got in, uh, after being a seller.
53:48Now, of course they only sold Flaherty last time.
53:50Oh, he became an important piece for the Dodgers in their world series, uh, championship.
53:54Uh, this, this year obviously traded a lot more than that.
53:57Right.
53:57You've got Mize who's better, better than Flaherty.
53:59And you've got Scooble who's better than anyone.
54:01Uh, you know, they, the American league is not that good.
54:05So, you know, maybe I would have taken my chances on that.
54:08Right.
54:09American league with Scooble.
54:10Anyway, that's why I gave him.
54:11Well, I like that overriding point.
54:13Mine's a little sillier, but I'm going with an error or two.
54:15I'm giving it to jazz Chisholm.
54:17He's got to stop with the ABS challenges.
54:19I'm tired of watching him challenge balls that are right in the middle of the strike zone.
54:24He is now seven and 14 on his challenges.
54:26He's lost two thirds of his challenges.
54:29There are two that are worse than him.
54:31Uh, Raphael Sedana, uh, or the Sedan Raffaella, sorry.
54:36And a nailer, uh, Josh nailer.
54:38There's two guys who are worse than him at challenging.
54:42He's got to cut it out.
54:43He's got other things.
54:44He's got to worry about no more challenges from jazz Chisholm.
54:47That's my thought.
54:48I liked it.
54:49I liked that.
54:49There is a reason why position players shouldn't be challenging nor pitchers.
54:53The guys who had the best, the, are the best at it.
54:56The catchers I got, there are some really good catchers out there that are
54:59doing a great, like Wilson Contreras for me has been outstanding.
55:02There've been others, uh, as well, but I'm with you on the hitters.
55:05And man, when, when like Mark Vientos for the Mets is probably worse.
55:09If he had, if he hadn't gotten hurt, he might've challenged jazz for the worst
55:13challenge right down the middle.
55:17He's won a couple more times than jazz.
55:19I think there were actually the guys who came up, they said rookies shouldn't do it.
55:22They were actually better at it.
55:23Sal Stewart won a bunch of them.
55:25Uh, he was used to it being in the minor leagues last year.
55:28And some guys have turned around a strikeout into a walk.
55:31So that's valuable.
55:32But I, the catchers are really the ones who are good at it.
55:36I'm with you on that a hundred percent.
55:37Anyway, Jim, it's a pleasure having you on.
55:40I thank you so much for joining me today.
55:42You're the man.
55:43I really appreciate that.
55:44I want to thank Tommy Hogan, our excellent producer, does it week in and week out.
55:50Fantastic job.
55:51And of course, thanks to Dave Dombrowski for joining me for the interview earlier,
55:56earlier as well.
55:58Easy for me to say, uh, I want you to encourage you to go look at the New York post
56:02YouTube
56:03page, read the California post.
56:05Of course, read the New York post.
56:07Uh, Joel will be back next week.
56:10Uh, so it'll be me and Joel back again next week with an interview subject.
56:14And it's been my pleasure.
56:15This is John Heyman, uh, signing off for the show this week.
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