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El senador Iván Cepeda Castro, del Pacto Histórico, aseguró que la izquierda no es un “proyecto caudillista” y que, por lo mismo, sí tendrá relevos en sus cuadros direc-tivos. Confirmó que el ya saliente presidente Gustavo Petro asumirá la dirección de su colectividad y explicó por qué, desde su punto de vista, el entrante jefe de Estado, Abelardo de la Espriella, debería ser considerado “ilegítimo”. Puntualizó cómo se mo-verá ahora que regresa a la oposición. También habló del Centro Democrático del exmandatario Álvaro Uribe. Entrevista.
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00:09Hello, greetings to all the viewers of El Espectador who are joining us again on
00:13Another episode of El Espectador Interviews. I'm Daniel Valero, the political editor.
00:17from this publishing house and on this occasion we are joined by the senator and former presidential candidate
00:23Iván Cepeda Castro. Everyone knows him. Senator, welcome to this dialogue of the
00:31Audiences of El Espectador. Thank you very much for joining us, Senator. And well, I think
00:37Let's get started right away. You've always been very clear and direct. Senator, what
00:43What do we expect now? As of August 7th, their political force will once again be in opposition.
00:50What comes next? August 7, 2026 onwards. Explain it to the Spectator's audience.
00:55What's next, please? Well, we will first take political action dedicated to
01:04to defend people's rights, to defend democracy, to defend life, that is to say,
01:13Our natural wealth, diversity, and democracy in social and cultural life as well.
01:23And we will do that through the peaceful, calm, responsible, and honest exercise of opposition
01:32politics. We hope that if the new government proposes this, then this will happen.
01:42in terms of dialogue, but also, as we have said, we are prepared for disobedience
01:49civil, since we find that there are very strong reasons not to accept the legitimacy of the
01:58Mr. de las Puella as head of state. And that's not because, as has been said, there is a
02:05The problem is not only of not knowing the election result, but also for other reasons that we have explained and
02:10that have to do with his dual nationality, in this case American.
02:15Before delving a little deeper into these topics and to understand the political role that he will play
02:20Now, who will be the leader of the opposition? Outgoing President Gustavo Petro.
02:27Senator Iván Cepeda, will they be running together? What is the structure of that political organization so that...
02:31Can we understand what's coming?
02:33Yes, no, it's not about a single voice, we are not a leader-driven formation, we have
02:42a collective direction, of course our general guidelines are set by the management
02:49of the historic pact, our parliamentary group, our governing bodies, President Petro,
02:56who will be the former president of the Republic tomorrow, has a leadership earned through his experience,
03:05for his years of leadership, not only of our community, but also of the State,
03:11So we proposed that he become the president of our political party, and he said that
03:18Accept that offer, that request we've made. I will act as the person who obtained it.
03:2712 million 700 thousand votes, a little more than that figure, because the voice of the political opposition,
03:38But in Congress there are also all our congressmen who act as spokespeople, spokespeople for our party,
03:47The spokespeople in this case are two women, Carolina Corcho and María Fernanda Carrascal in the House of Representatives,
03:56Carolina in the Senate, and many other leaders. Moreover, we have made the decision to create what we have called
04:05from the Cabinet for Life, which we will present in an official and detailed manner to Colombian society
04:12later on, but in which many former ministers will be represented.
04:21who played a central role during these years of government. So there isn't just one voice,
04:25There is a plurality of voices, but only one message and one political orientation.
04:32Senator, during the campaign there was talk that there were some normal frictions in a campaign.
04:39between the now candidate and senator Iván Cepeda and the outgoing president, Gustavo Petro.
04:45How is that relationship?
04:46No, it's a relationship, I would say, that is not only close and absolutely harmonious from a personal point of view,
04:57but also political. Of course, we are two different personalities, each with our own style.
05:05But we are united by a total and complete identity in our political project.
05:11That must be understood, and, as happens in politics and in any human relationship,
05:18Sometimes there are differences, arguments, but it is not the case of a clash, rupture, contradiction.
05:27That is not the relationship we have with President Petro.
05:30And to close this chapter and move on to some concerns that you have publicly expressed
05:35Regarding the new government, there are some issues that President Petro has raised.
05:39such as the issue of possible electoral fraud, the call also to some, a kind of groups.
05:47He used the word militias on his Twitter account, not armed or anything like that, of course.
05:51But he used them to say that we have to play a game.
05:54And he said guards.
05:54And guards too, resistance guards.
05:56Do you agree with these points, Senator?
05:59With regard to fraud, first of all.
06:02Please.
06:03As is known, during the final moments, not only of the campaign, but also at the time of the vote count,
06:14What came to be known as digital witnesses emerged spontaneously.
06:21People in very different parts of the world who voluntarily and spontaneously organized themselves
06:30to track the scrutiny process and the information they have collected.
06:38There are facts, claims, and likely patterns that need to be investigated.
06:45Why? Because they reveal situations that are not normal.
06:51I'll mention just one of them.
06:54These witnesses found that the data that is recorded in the system
07:00They lack what is called metadata, that is, a code that allows verification
07:09that the data has not been previously manipulated.
07:12Since they lack that digital fingerprint, so to speak, the question remains whether they have been tampered with.
07:22that data.
07:23So there is something that must, of course, be resolved, investigated and decided by the competent authority.
07:31That is why, I understand, 27 or more annulment actions have been filed.
07:40But I repeat, that's within the channels to which we are entitled and can use the status of
07:49right.
07:49So there is no flippancy in that, nor any attitude of sore losers, as some have tried to suggest.
07:58No, it is our right to ensure that it has been scrutinized in a legal manner, as proof of the
08:07result.
08:09Now, President Petro has made a statement regarding this concern, which is valid, entirely valid.
08:18for the safety of rural communities.
08:21And that has to do with the new government and Mr. de la Espriella and others of his
08:29Collaborators, perhaps the one who is going to be the Minister of Defense, have spoken of them unleashing
08:36actions in territories of the country that are definitely warlike.
08:43And that they can increase insecurity in communities.
08:48I am absolutely certain that the president has not made any call to use violent methods or actions.
08:59He simply said that it is necessary to build measures that allow communities to issue alerts, give or do the
09:12calls that are required when the lives of their leaders or members of those communities are at risk.
09:21So I think that's the call he's made, and it's a call that I wholeheartedly support.
09:27of the safety of the communities and, in this case, of the rural communities.
09:32He shares the expression "Abelard the Brief," used by President Petro.
09:37Well, I don't know, the president used it yesterday at a demonstration.
09:43What I can say is that Mr. de la Espriella has outstanding issues with the American justice system.
09:50And I'm not the one saying it.
09:52Democratic members of Congress have said so, having sent a letter to the federal prosecutor, who will come, if I understand correctly, to his
10:01possession.
10:03Also to the Secretary of the Treasury, who expressed in those letters, or in that letter they sent, extremely serious concerns
10:13serious matters relating to the way in which Mr. de la Espriella made his fortune or has made his
10:18fortune in the state of Florida.
10:20Regarding drug traffickers, with Mr. Alex Zapp, an intermediary, a front man, I don't quite understand, Colombian-Venezuelan.
10:32Well, those are serious matters that the public should take into account because sooner or later they could mean a
10:43outcome.
10:44These are investigations that were also reviewed by The New York Times in a fairly extensive article, and that
10:54They can indeed lead to a very difficult situation where tomorrow someone illegitimately takes power, as
11:03head of state.
11:03That same thing cannot be from the other side either, even in terms of what those who have said have said
11:09Today, until August 6th, they are the opposition; after August 7th, they will be the government.
11:13And it is that President Petro, you, Senator Cepeda, and others, are supposedly the ones who ended certain benefits.
11:21from illegal sectors.
11:24Well, as they say.
11:25I gain no benefit, that is to say, all my material and earthly knowledge is very clear.
11:33My political life is completely transparent.
11:38I also have that certainty about President Petro.
11:43So we have no fear of being investigated by the authorities and the natural judges.
11:50Because what cannot be done is to expect that a judge who is not a natural judge should investigate it yet.
11:58Now, if that is the case, the right to a defense must be granted.
12:05Today I submitted a formal request to the Attorney General of the Nation asking her to clarify,
12:14and also clarify to the president of the republic, if someone from the prosecutor's office, apparently in coordination with the
12:22DEA,
12:22is conducting investigations or any kind of inquiries that compromise us or attempt to compromise us with something that is impossible to...
12:34let's have a relationship,
12:36What is drug trafficking?
12:37But what we do want is clarity on why a person or official who
12:45He is not competent and could be conducting that type of investigation.
12:51And moving on, taking advantage of these few minutes we have left, Senator, you too have publicly stated that there are things that you
12:56government concerns
12:57The incoming president-elect, Abelardo de la Espriella, will take office on August 7th.
13:03So, regarding the hearings, and considering that they are short periods of time, what would you say?
13:10Short times and long worries.
13:13Exactly.
13:14But the good thing is that you have a way of speaking that helps people understand you.
13:18I'll try.
13:19What worries him?
13:20Let's say, if one could put it in numerical terms, two or three points that you would say.
13:23Well, I'm going to list three, but there could be many more.
13:28The first is, obviously, the legitimacy of Mr. de la Espriella, for a simple reason.
13:34It has nothing to do with the election result, it has to do with his dual nationality.
13:40That is, the fact that he has taken an oath by which he pledges to be loyal,
13:48not to the Colombian constitution, but to the US constitution,
13:54This creates what, in our view, is an insurmountable obstacle for him to act in a sovereign manner.
14:04A second concern is the announcement that has been made regarding social spending.
14:11As the future finance minister has already stated, there will be a cut like never before seen.
14:18And we have no doubt that what will be subject to that cut will most likely be,
14:26Well, issues that have to do with the care of populations living in poverty,
14:31who are most neglected by the State.
14:35So that will have a very negative impact from a social and economic point of view.
14:42And thirdly, you told me three, I could elaborate further,
14:46But for example, what kind of cultural and educational policy is the new government announcing?
14:53Something they call the culture war.
14:56What's that?
14:57To put it simply, it's about making our country,
15:03which is a country that has a democratic constitution,
15:08is going to become a totalitarian or absolutist country.
15:13Because the idea of a culture war implies that there are two sides,
15:17To put it simply, it's a game where one has to defeat the other.
15:21In other words, it is an eminently anti-democratic idea.
15:25Our country is a country in which the right to religious freedom exists.
15:32But well, we can see that the president, or whoever is going to be proclaimed president,
15:37illegitimately, his cabinet,
15:41They already appear in a session, so there wouldn't be any problem if it's private.
15:48But no, it is apparently a government act in which a meeting is held
15:54of what will be the cabinet, performing a religious rite.
15:59Now, is that religious rite from a plurality of religions?
16:03No no.
16:04It belongs to a particular religious cult.
16:08So from now on,
16:10to say something in the Congress of the Republic,
16:13We will also have to perform religious rites
16:17or in educational or public institutions.
16:21Where is the limit of the right to have a faith?
16:26and a religious belief
16:28and the exercise of a public function?
16:31That's what we should ask him.
16:33to all those people who are going to practice
16:36nothing more and nothing less than the executive power in Colombia.
16:39They're going to force the rest of us citizens in this country.
16:45that we adopt a religious belief
16:47simply because they have it.
16:50And one of those officials was already saying
16:52that now things are returning to the course they should have always followed.
16:58And that is that we all place it on the foundation of our beliefs
17:02the religious faith that person has.
17:06No, no, no.
17:07We are a secular state.
17:09A state that has the right to plurality
17:12and religious diversity,
17:15sexual diversity,
17:17ethnic diversity,
17:19pluriculturalism.
17:20So he is seriously mistaken
17:23the master of the pieces
17:25and he's going to want to impose his will on us
17:27a kind of ritual
17:29and of belief
17:33monotheistic.
17:34No, not that...
17:35Colombia is not that type of republic.
17:37And, Senator,
17:39And what about Colombian institutions?
17:40They are not strong enough
17:42in order to set the limits?
17:45Because, in a way,
17:46The same thing was also discussed during the last four years.
17:49The institutional framework was present.
17:50It was discussed earlier...
17:51Yes, but never President Petro
17:52He did not try to impose a religious cult on anyone.
17:56Or he never appointed a cabinet
17:58that had the same racial composition.
18:01Or he never tried to say
18:03that people who have
18:04a certain type of, let's say,
18:08diversities in sexual matters
18:09These are people who should be excluded.
18:12No, those are behaviors.
18:14behaviors and convictions of one's own
18:16of totalitarian societies.
18:18And what about Colombian institutions?
18:20Wouldn't you give us any guarantees?
18:21And to propose that to Colombian society
18:23They're going to crash
18:24frontally
18:27with the opposition,
18:28not only from the historical pact,
18:30but I would say of Colombian society.
18:34It is, above all, a pluralistic society.
18:36Do you trust Colombian institutions for that?
18:39I know there will be many forces,
18:41very diverse,
18:42not only from the progressive spectrum,
18:45but of all people
18:46who have a democratic conviction
18:49that will prevent
18:50that Colombia is going to lose
18:52its status as a democracy
18:55and of a social state governed by the rule of law.
18:57Okay, Senator.
18:58And to round things off,
19:00Let me move on to another point,
19:01And that's because you have always been
19:02and historically they recognize it
19:04as a leader,
19:06allow me the adjective,
19:08very important on the left.
19:10And you were saying at the beginning
19:11from this interview,
19:13We are not a leader-led project.
19:15Do they have paintings that can be updated?
19:18Or are we going for a renovation?
19:21Because everyone else too,
19:22if everyone recognizes it,
19:24This government managed to unite the left.
19:27Yes, and I'll give you a fact.
19:29Among the people who voted
19:32by Aida Kilcuey and by me,
19:35in the range of people
19:37who are perhaps between 18
19:40and 35 years old,
19:41We had 70%
19:44of a favorable vote.
19:46That is to say,
19:46We are a force
19:48which has a great perspective
19:50renewal
19:51in youth.
19:53And that is our wish.
19:54Young people and women
19:56every time
19:57in a broader sense
19:59and decisive
20:00at the head
20:01of the historical pact.
20:02Play it with some names.
20:04No, there are too many people there.
20:06And we'll see now.
20:08that we will have the opportunity
20:09not only
20:11to choose
20:11to our addresses
20:14in the pact,
20:15but also
20:15that we are going to enter
20:16already in the process
20:17of the elections
20:18of 2027.
20:19And such strong figures.
20:21such as
20:21Gustavo Petro
20:22and Iván Cepeda
20:23They give that possibility
20:24so that new paintings can emerge.
20:25Definitely,
20:26definitely.
20:27I think that
20:29part of things
20:30that we have incorporated
20:32and learned
20:33on the political left
20:35and in progressivism
20:36the thing is
20:38the leaders
20:39they pass,
20:40what remains
20:41it is evident
20:43the people,
20:44democracy,
20:45the possibility
20:46than others
20:47do
20:48better and better
20:49the task
20:50than others
20:51we tried
20:52to move forward.
20:53And yourself
20:54mentions the 27th,
20:55That's the choice
20:56which follows.
20:56How are things going?
20:57Getting ready for this?
20:58Well, we're here now
20:59ahead
21:00the conversations.
21:03It's not yet
21:03a decision
21:04firm
21:05nor is it universal,
21:06but the consultations
21:08what did we do
21:09in this election
21:10they showed themselves to be
21:11a mechanism
21:12democratic
21:13and effective
21:14to mobilize
21:15to the voters.
21:17So
21:17most likely
21:18we will go
21:19via
21:20of the consultation.
21:21And do they consider
21:22that on the 27th
21:22That will be the first step.
21:24to return
21:24to return
21:25to national power?
21:26Yeah,
21:26then
21:27we are
21:27preparing
21:28to govern
21:29promptly
21:29again.
21:31With the senator
21:32Ivan Cepeda
21:32through that process?
21:33Me for now
21:34I have to answer
21:35for control
21:37political
21:37and the opposition.
21:38And to close
21:39This interview
21:40at some point
21:41he will tell
21:41to the president
21:41to talk
21:42of the spray
21:42president?
21:43If he resigns
21:44to its citizens
21:46United States,
21:47I said it clearly,
21:48would change the situation
21:50at least
21:52generates
21:52an illegitimacy
21:53basic.
21:54Okay,
21:55and let's close
21:55with this.
21:56What message
21:56leaves citizenship
21:57Colombian
21:58since it's coming
21:58a change
21:59of government,
21:59senator?
22:00Well, we are
22:01ready to defend
22:02the rights,
22:03to participate
22:04in a democracy
22:05and that politics
22:07It always brings changes.
22:10We're ready
22:11to oppose,
22:12to exercise
22:12an opposition
22:14responsible,
22:15peaceful,
22:15democratic,
22:16but also
22:17to stop
22:18on the line
22:19firmly
22:20when required
22:21defend
22:22the rights
22:23of the people.
22:23It was passing.
22:24a question
22:25that I had to write down.
22:26We'll see again
22:27that exercise
22:27with the Democratic Center
22:29of the former president
22:29Álvaro Uribe
22:30that we saw
22:30for the election
22:31of the president
22:31of the Senate.
22:32It's very likely.
22:34Is it easier?
22:34to talk with Uribe
22:35What about De La Espriella?
22:36Well, at this moment
22:38We are in dialogue
22:39with the Democratic Center
22:42in Congress,
22:43not so with,
22:45well, so far
22:46It is national salvation,
22:47But it will be soon.
22:49apparently
22:50defenders of the homeland.
22:51Well,
22:52with them
22:52We have no dialogue
22:53and not because
22:54we haven't offered it.
22:56And dialogue?
22:57Cepeda-Uribe-Aubria?
22:58Ah,
22:59I don't know,
22:59I have always been
23:00willing
23:01to dialogue
23:02with all the actors
23:04politicians,
23:05That's part of it.
23:06of the function
23:06that we have.
23:07And go ahead,
23:08if he calls
23:09De La Espriella,
23:09There would also be
23:10that dialogue.
23:11If there is respect
23:12And if it's official,
23:14if it's a conversation
23:15so that the country
23:17advance,
23:18so that they are respected
23:19the rights
23:19of the people,
23:20the entire arrangement
23:21to dialogue.
23:22Senator,
23:23thank you so much
23:23for these minutes
23:24for the audiences
23:24from El Espectador.
23:25As usual,
23:26thank you so much.
23:27Senator,
23:27thank you so much
23:28and to you
23:28the hearings
23:29from El Espectador.
23:31Remember
23:31be informed
23:32minute by minute
23:33or second by second
23:34through all
23:34our digital channels
23:35and the print edition
23:37that circulates daily
23:38of this newspaper.
23:39Until next time.
23:48Thank you!
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