- 2 days ago
Payne & Pendergast kick off the show discussing the big Texans news over the weekend as the team puts on pads for the first time at training camp.
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00:00Right, and football is played in pads, so that's where the evaluation process kicks up.
00:05When you put the pads on, you see, you talk about blocking and run game, which plays are successful.
00:10You don't have to have any guess who put the pads on.
00:13You know who won a rep and who didn't win a rep.
00:16And the pads go on today, baby.
00:19The pads go on out here at the Methodist Training Center.
00:21Welcome in, everybody, on a Monday morning.
00:23Good to be with you, Sean Pendergast and Seth Payne.
00:26Day five of Texan's training camp, and that's just the beginning of what's going on today.
00:31Yeah, there's a lot going on.
00:33There's a lot going on, man.
00:34For those of you who missed it, you're just enjoying winning the silver boot and whatnot.
00:39The Texans signed two defensive linemen, Mario Edwards and Jadeveon Clowney.
00:45Two reunions.
00:46Jadeveon Clowney back in the fold.
00:48This is becoming, you know what, it's becoming a thing because they've done this with Sheldon Rankins.
00:53The defensive linemen, they go out into the world.
00:55They sow their oats, and then they come back into the fold.
00:59There's no place like playing on this D'Amico Ryan's defense.
01:03Clowney's been on quite the journey.
01:04Clowney's been on the odyssey.
01:08He had to put wax in his ears to come down I-45 from Dallas.
01:14Sheldon barely got to the county line.
01:17Clowney's been circumnavigating the globe over the last ten years.
01:22This is now his fifth team in the last five years.
01:26He's still a very, very good football player.
01:30Last year, he led the Cowboys in sacks.
01:33They were a pathetic defense.
01:35I went back and I watched four of his complete games.
01:37I put together a highlight reel from his whole season yesterday.
01:40I actually did that yesterday morning because you and I had an inkling that this might happen.
01:44Yeah.
01:45So I was excited about it.
01:47Little smoke screens.
01:47And honestly, look, I knew he'd still been playing well, and I'd watched him here and there.
01:51But really, going back and watching complete games and going back and watching all his sacks and pressures and tackles,
01:58he's still...
01:59Here's the thing about two things.
02:02Size and height and length.
02:05Those things don't change.
02:07Well, I should say strength.
02:09He's still strong as hell, and he's still a freakishly large human being who at times makes plays that other
02:15people can't,
02:16either because he's getting to them pretty quickly or because he's just so long.
02:20He takes one step and he makes a tackle for a loss, you know, coming down from a wide alignment
02:25defensive end down to the opposite side guard.
02:28He's making these tackles for a loss.
02:30He's fun to watch.
02:31And look, as a guy, for him to be your third guy rotating in with Daniil Hunter and Will Anderson
02:37and maybe being in there on first and second down to stuff the run because he's still very, very good
02:42against the run,
02:43this is the rich getting richer.
02:45Remember how people said that about the Texans signing Caden McDonald?
02:48Yeah.
02:48And that's a draft pick.
02:49You know, people around the league saw that the Texans got Caden McDonald, and they were like, oh, great, great.
02:55Guy that could have been a first-rounder, the Texans get him, of course.
02:57This is Genevion Clowney, who's a proven football player.
03:00Proven commodity, yeah.
03:01Proven commodity.
03:02Well, and I think, okay, so there may be people waking up not knowing the details of this.
03:08As Seth pointed out, Mario Edwards Jr. back.
03:11Genevion Clowney signs yesterday.
03:13Here's the details of the deal.
03:14So it's a very good deal for the Texans.
03:17It's one year, $5.5 million base with a chance for him to earn up to $8 million.
03:23So presumably incentives in there for sacks and TFLs or whatever.
03:28He had 8.5 sacks last year for the Cowboys.
03:31He led the Cowboys in sacks last year.
03:33Page 33, as Seth pointed out, he's still a very, very productive player.
03:38So he signs, they also signed Sione Takitaki, the linebacker, who played five years in Cleveland.
03:45I think he was with New England most recently.
03:48Might be an indicator that Jake Hansen's ankle injury is worse than something minor.
03:53It's as bad as it looked when he had it the other day.
03:55Or at the very least, even if it's not an awful, awful injury, if he's going to be out for
03:59three or four weeks and they've got a spot.
04:01The Clowney thing is really interesting to me because, one, you're right.
04:05This is like he's going to be in the Derek Barnett role, but the sheer fact of the matter is
04:09he's a better player than Derek Barnett is.
04:12Maybe even significantly so, and that's not to diminish Derek Barnett.
04:15But Barnett was the guy who was sort of the third man in that defensive line rotation, played about 300
04:21to 350 snaps last year.
04:23And Clowney said yesterday, like some of the quotes that are interesting from the article in the Chronicle,
04:28and I think are worth noting here for Texan fans who may have a certain impression of Clowney in their
04:34minds.
04:35You know, maybe the fact that Bill O'Brien didn't want him here anymore and traded him for a third
04:39-round pick still sticks with Texan fans.
04:41Maybe there's Texan fans who were following Clowney in Cleveland a couple of years ago when he had issues with
04:46the way he was being used in Cleveland.
04:48Hey, you're letting Myles Garrett line up all over the formation.
04:51Why don't you let me line up all over the formation like you do with Myles Garrett?
04:54It felt like he'd earned that.
04:56He's the defensive player of the year.
04:57That's why.
04:58But some of the quotes I think were interesting, Seth, in the Chronicle article about this.
05:02Quotes like this.
05:03I've grown up and learned the game a lot more since leaving.
05:06I feel I can help the younger guys.
05:08I've learned how to lead.
05:09It was a really easy decision.
05:11It wasn't about the money.
05:13These are quotes that are very indicative of somebody who's much more mature than the Clowney that we knew when
05:18he left here.
05:18Not that he was a cancer or that he was a bad guy or anything like that.
05:22He was just kind of like an immature goofball in a way.
05:25Yeah, he was a lovable goofball.
05:26If you didn't attach it to some of the performances of the Texans, you'd say, in the contrast between him
05:31and Bill O'Brien, in hindsight, it's hilarious.
05:34At the time, it was kind of stressful.
05:35Yes.
05:36No, I think that's the thing that you've got to be careful about is sometimes people put any kind of
05:42either football character or maturity or anything,
05:47they put it all into one bucket and act like C.J. Gardner-Johnson and Genevion Clowney are the same
05:51guy.
05:51It couldn't be more night and day when it comes to whatever issues Bill O'Brien had with Genevion Clowney.
05:57They weren't like the types of issues C.J. Gardner-Johnson has had where he's selling out teammates, where he's
06:02getting in arguments and battles and pointing fingers and all of that.
06:05Other than that one incident in Cleveland, which was also, that was kind of a weirdly reported incident, and who
06:11knows exactly what happened there.
06:13I think this is a slam dunk awesome.
06:18Potentially, honestly, and I'm saying this without trying to be a hot take artist or anything, this could end up
06:24being one of the smartest and best signings in the NFL this year.
06:27For the amount of money you're paying and for the impact you could make on a defense that's already really,
06:31really, really good.
06:33But one of the few questions that you had about their depth was, all right, who are your backup defensive
06:38ends and what kind of an impact are they going to make?
06:40You've been talking about that since the offseason started with them.
06:44And I think, too, look, I think you've got to point out the Texans were very fortunate last year with
06:50their injury luck on the defensive side of the ball.
06:53Will Anderson Jr. and Daniil Hunter didn't miss a single game last year.
06:56And I know Daniil Hunter is a superhero, but he's in his early 30s now.
07:00That was the first season Will Anderson Jr. had where he hadn't missed any games.
07:03He'd had that ankle issue his first two years in the league.
07:06The fact of the matter is, it's football.
07:08And there's a chance that that type of luck doesn't happen again this year.
07:12Boy, if one of those guys has to miss a game or two, and you're sliding Jadeveon Clowney in there
07:18to play 60 snaps,
07:21that's about as good as it gets when you're talking about third defensive ends in a 4-3 defensive end
07:26rotation.
07:27And I think if, you know, because some of the guys who are out there, you might wonder about, like,
07:31Von Miller.
07:32It probably wasn't the right scheme fit.
07:35You know, might be useful as a third down pass rusher.
07:38But unless Will or Daniil gets injured, that's not necessarily what you're looking for.
07:43They need somebody that can rush the passer but also be really stout against the run.
07:46And that's where he is.
07:48Like, Sean, the whole thing about, you know, Clowney getting older, the thing that doesn't hurt him like it might
07:52others,
07:53Clowney's always been kind of stiffer.
07:55You know, one of the reasons he doesn't have a boatload of sacks is he doesn't have great bend at
08:00the top of his pass rush.
08:01He's kind of stiff.
08:02Yeah, yeah.
08:04But he's – but it doesn't matter because – so he plays with a higher pad level than most defensive
08:08ends.
08:09Yeah, that's what he's always done.
08:10And the biggest – one of his biggest strengths is just he's so ridiculously strong that he kind of just
08:16stands there.
08:17There's some plays on his highlights that look like he's Hodor where he almost just – there's almost nobody that
08:23can, you know, knock him backwards or sacks.
08:26Yeah.
08:26The other thing, though, the one big misconception about Clowney that goes back to the scouting process that still angers
08:32me to this day
08:33is that people love to have this story about Clowney that he doesn't play hard all the time.
08:38And I got to remember when you knew the Texans were going to draft him, I went back and I
08:42watched every snap of his final year in college.
08:44And I'm trying to find the – I'm trying to find these moments where he's slacking.
08:48And he doesn't.
08:49He plays his butt off on Sundays.
08:51He chases down – he chased Xavier Worthy 20 yards downfield and tackled him.
08:56He's like – he is – he plays with a lot of – he plays with a lot of swarm,
08:59honestly.
09:00Is he swarmy?
09:01That's what I was going to ask you.
09:01He's incredibly swarmy.
09:02That's the question.
09:03The question was always when he was here with Bill O'Brien and, like, he said himself, you know, he's
09:07more mature now.
09:08I think it was about, okay, how did he operate in practice, in rehab, all those things during the week
09:14that, you know, Bill O'Brien wanted more out of him.
09:17But as far as, like, how he's played on the field, he's always been a guy who plays his butt
09:21off.
09:21He's got a – he has got a really good motor.
09:24Yeah.
09:24And it bothers me because it's the exact opposite of the label that stuck with him.
09:30And I think that kind of – that label kind of colors some of the commentary about him.
09:35Like, when Michelle Tafoya reported that – in that game when he was made inactive, she reported that he stormed
09:41out of the building.
09:41And it turns out, no, he was going out to the parking lot to give his mom some tickets.
09:46It's a 2015 Chiefs playoff game.
09:47But when somebody like Michelle Tafoya thinks, oh, yeah, Clowney, he's the guy that, you know, has this or that
09:53about him, like, somehow it gets interpreted as him storming out the building.
09:56Yep.
09:57And if we're being honest, Seth, some of that may be the reason why you're able to get him for
10:02one year, five and a half million bucks.
10:04All hail the label.
10:05All hail the label.
10:06I've never been happier about a mislabel than this one.
10:10You need to keep perpetuating the narrative so you can bring him back next year on the same team.
10:13Yeah.
10:14So, Jadeveon Clowney, I love this summary of it.
10:16This is by somebody named Max Loeb, who I didn't know who he was until yesterday, but I love the
10:20tweet.
10:21It's third down.
10:22You couldn't run the ball on first or second down against this Texans front seven.
10:26You now have to protect your QB on third and long against Will Anderson Jr., Daniil Hunter, and Jadeveon Clowney.
10:34And I think it's interesting because we've seen Will do it, and we saw Clowney do it when he was
10:39here.
10:39Maybe there are some packages on third down where they line one of them up inside, line them up over
10:44a guard or a center, and use their quickness.
10:46Yeah.
10:46To their advantage.
10:47But just to finish the tweet, you now have to protect your QB against Will Anderson, Daniil Hunter, and Jadeveon
10:52Clowney while your wide receivers and tight ends are trying to get open against Derek Stingley, Kamari Lassiter, Reid Blankenship,
10:59Kalen Bullock, and Jalen Petrie.
11:00I added to that and said yes.
11:02And it's Ezal Shair is lurking in the middle of the field if anybody dare go through the kill zone.
11:08It's a stacked defense, man.
11:10I mean, the things they did, it was already.
11:12So you put the Seahawks and the Texans up there at the very top of the NFL.
11:16The Seahawks lose a few guys this offseason.
11:18The Texans gain Reid Blankenship, Caden McDonald, and now Jadeveon Clowney.
11:24Yeah.
11:24I mean, it's really.
11:25Everybody else is back.
11:27Right.
11:27Everybody else is back.
11:28Every starter is back except for the one position that didn't have a starter last year, your revolving door safety
11:35opposite Kalen Bullock.
11:36Now you've got an actual starter there.
11:38You've added a different body type to the defensive line with Caden McDonald.
11:42Now you've brought Barrio Wet.
11:43You've brought Edwards back.
11:45And then you've also added Jadeveon Clowney into the fold.
11:48Yeah, man.
11:48It really is.
11:49Like, for anybody that's said all offseason long, man, all they need is above average play by C.J. Stroud.
11:56Or just in that Patriots game, obviously, just average QB play wins you that game.
12:02But it really makes it that much more of a dynamic that, man, the offense can be a functioning offense.
12:10If they can be a threatening offense, especially, then it's a really, really hard team to beat.
12:16Yep.
12:16So then shifting gears, we're four practices in.
12:21And I think I agree with you.
12:22That was my thought this morning, Seth, just in thinking through this Clowney thing driving down here.
12:26This puts even more pressure on the offense now.
12:29Yeah.
12:29In my mind with the Texans.
12:30Like, okay, Clowney, this is a guy who's, you know, Clowney is coming here.
12:35This is one of those signings that Super Bowl contenders make.
12:38You know, Clowney said that he had other places for more money he could have gone to.
12:42I wholeheartedly believe him.
12:43He was a productive player in Dallas last year.
12:45And he was their leading sack guy last year.
12:48He got the attention on a bad defense and still had eight and a half sacks last year at age
12:5232.
12:54So I think this actually amps up the pressure on the offense even more this year.
12:58You're making additions like this on the defensive side of the ball?
13:02Says exactly what you're saying.
13:03The offense just doesn't need to be great, but it needs to be good.
13:06And so four practices in, just shifting gears for a second, what have you seen from the offense?
13:12Okay, so from the offense, I know a lot of people were depressed and concerned about the fact that the
13:16first couple of periods didn't go well for the offense on Saturday.
13:20And, you know, I've been praising some of the progress just how the offense is made from all the pre
13:25-snap stuff, from being sharp with all of their pre-snap motions and a lot of these tight end shifts
13:30they're using.
13:31CJ's been completing passes, and it hasn't been an aerial highlight show or anything, but they're going against the best
13:40defense in the league.
13:41It's just a functional offense right now.
13:45They're doing all of the little things right, but they haven't had pads on.
13:47The first couple of periods on Saturday, I think the one thing that's really important to remember is that the
13:54defense, this defense was kind of vanilla last year.
13:58Remember they didn't disguise a whole bunch or have a bunch of wrinkles in it?
14:01There's going to be wrinkles this year.
14:03And, I mean, there was one of CJ's nicer throws to Jared Wayne on Saturday.
14:09Will Anderson was out in coverage, you know.
14:12Oh, okay.
14:13So just for that alone, and I'll describe that play because it's out there on the internet and fans took
14:19shots of it and everything.
14:23The defense is going to be a little bit more complex.
14:25It doesn't have to be crazy.
14:26It doesn't have to be like a Brian Flores type of defense or anything.
14:29But because they have all these veteran guys that are comfortable with the system, they can do a little bit
14:33more of that.
14:34I thought, honestly, the bad plays the offense had on Saturday, if I try to use that test where I
14:42walk out and I don't know anything about this team at all and I just watch it play, I would
14:48say, well, yeah, the defense had some nice plays in that period.
14:50But then the offense came back and they did some good things, too.
14:53And, you know, CJ had some clutch throws on hypothetical third downs.
14:57It was a back and forth more so than, I think, if you only watched the first period or the
15:03first couple periods of Saturday's practice.
15:04Yeah, I didn't think, you know, again, like you said, it's a practice that's not in pads, you know, and
15:09whatnot.
15:10But I thought when CJ had time to throw on Saturday, I thought it looked pretty good.
15:14I think, you know, my grade for CJ, if we can grade, you know, three outdoor practices in an indoor
15:21walkthrough type practice, none of them in pads,
15:24I think CJ's been like a solid B-plus so far in training.
15:27Yeah, yeah.
15:28He's been good.
15:28He's been fine.
15:29You know, and the other thing, man, the battle between Nico Collins and Derek Stingley and Kamari Lasseter,
15:38it's fun to watch.
15:39There have been a couple of deep balls to Nico where, man, Nico is fighting with Derek Stingley and Kamari
15:45Lasseter
15:46and it's a 50-50 ball type of situation and that's where I'm trying to, I'm thinking from CJ's perspective,
15:54all right, you've got to try to practice the way you would play.
15:57And if I'm looking at any receiver in a 50-50 ball matchup with Derek Stingley, probably not going to
16:04throw the ball that way.
16:06But there's a part of me that's like, come on, CJ, just let it rip a little bit.
16:10But then I think about CJ again and think about like, oh, yeah, he spent the whole offseason with the
16:15entire Western Hemisphere
16:16trying to talk and smack about how awful he is and everything.
16:19I'm like, four picks, yeah.
16:22So if CJ were coming off an all-pro season or something, you might see CJ just out there just
16:27be like, yeah, let's see what happens.
16:28I think he's going to be so dialed in on trying to play clean football that we're not yet.
16:33You've got 2,000 people with cell phones out here, too.
16:36Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:37You know, this is going to wind up on the internet and everybody's going to think I'm trash.
16:39CJ, what's the worst that could happen?
16:42Oh, that's right.
16:42It's going to get aggregated and it's going to send out and it's going to be all over first take.
16:47Yeah.
16:48You excited for pads today, man?
16:49I am.
16:50I am.
16:50I really am.
16:51You're the crack of the pads, baby.
16:52Yeah, but it's also, as D'Amico said, you know, some guys can kind of be pretenders and frauds.
16:59He didn't use the word frauds, but there's guys who are frauds when there's no pads.
17:02Yeah.
17:02And especially.
17:03He didn't say it, but he meant it.
17:04Well, I don't have to worry about it on this defensive line because these guys are all proven,
17:07but with some defensive linemen especially, when there's no pads on and they just violate the practice tempo
17:13and they're jumping the snap count because they know the quarterback and all that,
17:17some of those guys really shine when there's no pads on and then all of a sudden they disappear.
17:21I like when D'Amico said that he, you know, tries not to get fooled by guys when there are
17:27no pads.
17:28The first year in 2002 of this franchise's existence, there was this linebacker who they
17:34got out of the Canadian league and the guy was one of the most impressively built dudes
17:38you've ever seen.
17:38Incredible athlete.
17:39And he, he was the best linebacker I've ever seen in any OTAs ever.
17:45He was better than Ray Lewis.
17:46Ray Lewis was a bum compared to this kid.
17:49And then, and the coaches, the coaches, remember, the, the linebacker coach and these,
17:54they loved him.
17:55This was the guy.
17:56He was rocketing up the depth chart and you get to the first week of training camp and
18:00you're, you're kind of like, what is that?
18:01Is he still on the team?
18:02Yeah.
18:03Is that what, what happened to that guy anyway?
18:05Yep.
18:05Yep.
18:05So D'Amico, D'Amico wouldn't make that mistake of rocketing the guy up the depth chart.
18:09Yep.
18:09In wrestling, what they say is when a guy walks through the ring and he just looks like a million
18:13bucks.
18:13Yeah.
18:13And they say, and then the bell rang at those beach muscles.
18:18Can't throw a punch.
18:19Can't do a move.
18:20That's why, uh, yeah, the beach muscles, the best, the best reminder of being too impressed
18:24by the beach muscles.
18:25When you think about guys like Darrell Rivas and Deion Sanders, those are two guys, you'd
18:30look at them.
18:31If you had to judge, if you did a physique contest, you know, clearly those guys aren't very good
18:36defensive backs.
18:37Right.
18:37Right.
18:37No, they're two of the best ever.
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