- 1 day ago
In this RealTrending episode, Tracey Velt sits down with Anthony Djon, founder and CEO of Anthony Djon Luxury Real Estate in Michigan, to unpack how his team consistently converts internet leads at a staggering 7–9%, more than double the industry’s 2–3% average. Anthony walks us through how he started small with just a few Realtor.com zip codes, never intending to build a team, and how demand ultimately forced him to scale into one of Realtor.com’s largest clients and Zillow’s biggest Flex partner in Michigan.
Anthony breaks down the accountability engine behind those numbers: his MaverickRE system, weekly conversion reviews, and a leadership structure built around high-performing team captains. He explains the daily checklist and prospecting routine that keeps agents focused on what actually moves the needle—three hours a day split between new prospecting and disciplined follow-up. He also shares how his team uses AI in text and personalization to deepen connections at scale without sacrificing authenticity.
The conversation tackles some of the industry’s biggest myths, especially the idea that “internet leads are bad.” Anthony argues that the real problem isn’t the leads—it’s broken follow-up and weak training. He lays out his simple but relentless philosophy: hit each lead at least 17 times, track everything, and “rotate the name in your calendar until they buy or die.” Along the way, he offers candid insights on portals, data control, and industry consolidation, and why independents who move fast, measure everything, and build strong cultures can actually thrive in a world dominated by big brands.
To close, Anthony dives into a lightning round on the one metric he watches daily (appointment set rate), how quickly he can tell if an agent will succeed with internet leads, and why he’ll bet on the disciplined follow-up machine over the “natural” salesperson every time. He calls AI a true game changer, warning that agents who ignore it will be like “riding horseback while everyone else is in spaceships.”
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
How Anthony scaled from a solo agent with a few zip codes to Realtor.com’s largest client and Zillow’s biggest Flex partner in Michigan
The weekly accountability system (MaverickRE) his team uses to obsess over conversion, not just leads
The daily checklist and 3-hour calling structure that keeps agents focused on revenue-producing activities
Why most agents blame “bad leads” when the real issue is a broken follow-up system
Anthony’s “17 touches minimum” follow-up rule—and how he keeps it simple with a basic paper calendar
How his team uses AI-powered texting and personalization to warm up leads and boost connection rates
The truth about portals, dependence, and data control—and why even your sphere may be going there first
How independent brokerages can outmaneuver larger brands with speed, culture, and adaptability
The one metric Anthony watches every single day and why it predicts everything
Anthony breaks down the accountability engine behind those numbers: his MaverickRE system, weekly conversion reviews, and a leadership structure built around high-performing team captains. He explains the daily checklist and prospecting routine that keeps agents focused on what actually moves the needle—three hours a day split between new prospecting and disciplined follow-up. He also shares how his team uses AI in text and personalization to deepen connections at scale without sacrificing authenticity.
The conversation tackles some of the industry’s biggest myths, especially the idea that “internet leads are bad.” Anthony argues that the real problem isn’t the leads—it’s broken follow-up and weak training. He lays out his simple but relentless philosophy: hit each lead at least 17 times, track everything, and “rotate the name in your calendar until they buy or die.” Along the way, he offers candid insights on portals, data control, and industry consolidation, and why independents who move fast, measure everything, and build strong cultures can actually thrive in a world dominated by big brands.
To close, Anthony dives into a lightning round on the one metric he watches daily (appointment set rate), how quickly he can tell if an agent will succeed with internet leads, and why he’ll bet on the disciplined follow-up machine over the “natural” salesperson every time. He calls AI a true game changer, warning that agents who ignore it will be like “riding horseback while everyone else is in spaceships.”
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
How Anthony scaled from a solo agent with a few zip codes to Realtor.com’s largest client and Zillow’s biggest Flex partner in Michigan
The weekly accountability system (MaverickRE) his team uses to obsess over conversion, not just leads
The daily checklist and 3-hour calling structure that keeps agents focused on revenue-producing activities
Why most agents blame “bad leads” when the real issue is a broken follow-up system
Anthony’s “17 touches minimum” follow-up rule—and how he keeps it simple with a basic paper calendar
How his team uses AI-powered texting and personalization to warm up leads and boost connection rates
The truth about portals, dependence, and data control—and why even your sphere may be going there first
How independent brokerages can outmaneuver larger brands with speed, culture, and adaptability
The one metric Anthony watches every single day and why it predicts everything
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NewsTranscript
00:00You want to learn how to make the most of internet leads. I've got the perfect person on the podcast
00:05today. It's Anthony John. He is the founder and CEO of Anthony John Luxury Real Estate in Michigan,
00:11and he spills all his secrets about converting internet leads. In fact, his conversion rate is
00:17between 7% and 9%, where the industry is usually at about 2% to 3%, and he's got some
00:25great
00:25strategies for you. So enjoy the podcast.
00:39Anthony, it's been, what, like three months since I've seen you? Welcome to Real Trending.
00:44Well, thank you. It feels like it was just yesterday. We had such a great time in Texas.
00:49Yeah, yeah. It was a good conference, so thanks for coming.
00:53It really was, and I'm looking forward to next year, the new place. This is,
01:00I've never been there.
01:02Yeah, I haven't either, so that should be a good one. I know Real Trends used to do it
01:06at the Four Seasons in Dallas. Well, it's Las Colinas, I think, years ago. That's been,
01:13that was years and years ago, probably 10 years ago. So, yeah.
01:17Yeah, I'm really, really excited, and every year, I got to tell you, Tracy, it's getting better and
01:22better and better. So I'm just super pumped about next year.
01:25Thanks.
01:26And I've never seen so many people. I remember when we first started, and it's like now,
01:31it's like, it's unbelievable.
01:33I know. I know. It's crazy. It's definitely grown. So exciting.
01:38Yeah. It's very exciting. Very exciting.
01:40So let's talk about you. You know, you've built your business about, you know, with working with
01:47leads at scale, especially Zillow leads. And I want to know-
01:52And Realtor.com, too.
01:54Okay. And Realtor.com.
01:55Okay. And Realtor.com. So what did your business look like at the beginning,
02:00and how did you scale it and evolve it over time?
02:04Well, it's a great question. So we started first with Realtor.com. We're still with Realtor.com.
02:10And I started real slow, right, with a couple of zip codes. And then what happened is, is I was
02:16getting busier because I was solo by myself. And that's the way that I actually wanted it. I never,
02:21believe it or not, I never wanted a team. The team, I'll tell you later, was just,
02:26actually, it was my wife's idea. And the long end of it short, I just got so busy with Realtor
02:31.com that
02:32I wound up needing a few agents to take over these leads. And then we got into Zillow. And then
02:3915 years later, we're in Michigan, we're Realtor.com's largest client and Zillow's biggest
02:45flex partner in Michigan. So it's out of control on the lead end.
02:49That's amazing.
02:51Yeah.
02:51And I remember interviewing you on stage about it. You had mentioned, you know, how you keep the
02:57agents accountable. And I wanted you to repeat that because I think it's really interesting.
03:01I also think it's really difficult to do. So tell me a little bit about how many agents
03:08you have working leads and how you're holding them accountable to actually the follow-up,
03:14which is the most difficult part of it.
03:16Well, that's a great question. So we have a new system called Maverick that tracks our conversion.
03:27And what we do is we track this conversion on a weekly basis. So we have, I've got a beautiful
03:34leadership team. We've got team captains that are, they're the best of the brand, meaning that they
03:39were the best agent at the time. They got upgraded. They're still an agent, but now they're running
03:43a unit, which is their people on their team. We subscribe to Maverick. We pull up the stats.
03:53And on a weekly basis, you know, we go through the calls, we go through the conversion. And my people
04:00are so used to this that they're just, they're, they're conversion fanatics, meaning that they're
04:07all about their conversion. This is why we've done so well doing it this way. Yeah. And on a weekly
04:13basis. And you had mentioned that you also have like a specific schedule. Do you still do that where
04:19they, where they have to make phone calls at a certain time or they have a certain number of
04:24calls? I can't remember. Oh, well, that starts with our checklist. So I created a checklist that
04:30I had for myself, right? So we got some time to chat, so I'll explain it to you. And for
04:36the people
04:37watching this, this podcast, everybody will agree with me that the bulk of realtors, the bulk,
04:44the bulk of loan officers and most other salespeople, they go into a day and then the day
04:52dictates to them on what happens in that day. And a lot of times it's a lot of nothing because
04:58you'd get navigated all the way through these different funnels. Well, I created a checklist
05:05and it starts off in the morning with all the things that a real estate agent should be doing
05:10to maximize their business, to maximize their business. But most importantly, it's the prospecting
05:17time and also the follow-up time. So I broke it up into two segments, into two one and a
05:24half hour
05:25segments. So there's three hours that we want our agents to go through one and a half hours to prospect
05:31for brand new business. But most importantly, one and a half hours of following up with their current
05:37business, the people that they're working with on the buy side or the list side, things like that,
05:43right? And then the hour and a half of, let me replenish my pipeline. And that's how these agents
05:49of mine are doing such big numbers versus the bulk of the agents and teams in Metro Detroit.
05:57Yeah. And I had an interview this morning where they talked about using AI to really cultivate
06:04the leads and personalize them. So when the agents do call, they can be very personal. And whether it's
06:11their emails or their calls to the agents, are you using any type of system like that yet? Or are
06:18you
06:18looking at building something like that? So we're pretty into the AI frame, not on calls, obviously,
06:27but on text messaging and also on creating that personal connection with the consumer. So we're
06:36definitely on that front. We have to, right? Because we're dealing on so many leads and there's
06:41so many personalities. I think that that has been a big positive in our world in regards to AI, meaning
06:49that the agent now has a higher probability of connecting with that consumer, right? Based on
06:58the intel that's provided to AI. And then AI comes back and says, hey, you know, if you hit it
07:04this
07:04way, I think it'll work. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And what do you say to the people who say, oh, you
07:11know,
07:11all these leads don't work. They're bad leads. You know, tell me what you're doing. Is it just a
07:21broken follow-up system that they have or are some of the leads just bad leads? Well, I usually smile
07:26when I hear that, you know, because if Zillow or Realtor.com leads didn't work, companies all over
07:33the country, they wouldn't be closing thousands and thousands of transactions every single month.
07:38So what most agents are really saying is, is I don't have a follow-up system. Internet leads are
07:43not bad, right? Specifically, Zillow and Realtor.com, I believe wholeheartedly they are the best leads
07:51that money can buy. But with that being said, there's, you know, there's simply early, right?
07:57Consumers today, they start looking online long before they're, you know, ready to move. And if you're
08:04experiencing, you know, these leads, um, in a negative way, it just means that you haven't
08:10really been trained correctly on how to talk with those leads. So, so if there's agents out here
08:16watching this, you know, believe this Realtor.com, Zillow, best leads that money can buy too. Um,
08:23there are so many different groups online that you can actually belong to and perfect the script. You
08:29can go on YouTube. Um, there's different, uh, agents that'll go through a script and, um, follow
08:35the script and you'll be fine. So how much, um, of lead conversion is really speed to lead versus
08:42scripting, follow-up, accountability, and agent mindset? That's a hard question to answer. I think
08:49all of it plays into it. I believe it or not, most agencies, most teams are performing at somewhere
08:59between two and 3% conversion. And that's because something is left out out of all those things that
09:09you mentioned, right? So, you know, speed, the lead is important, but what happens? Well, they picked
09:15up, you got them, you did your job, but then what happens to the other eight or nine that didn't
09:19pick up? You called, but they didn't pick up. Now it's a follow-up issue, right? Because most agents
09:25will hit only a lead once or twice or three times and it's done. And those are the bulk of
09:30the people
09:31that you were talking about, Tracy, earlier saying, well, the lead sucked. Well, it's only because you
09:35hit it two, three times. I say this, you have to hit a lead at least 17 times, minimum, minimum
09:4317 times.
09:44And when you get those numbers lodged in your mind, you will have a higher success ratio with leads.
09:53And I've got a whole system, if you want to hear it, on how I think the follow-up should
09:57be.
09:58Yeah. And first, what is your conversion rate? What are you tracking right now?
10:03We're between 7% and 9%.
10:06Okay. That's amazing. What does your follow-up look like? What is your scripting look like?
10:11What is it, you know, what do you recommend the steps are once a lead comes in?
10:17Well, I always say this. On the follow-up measure, like I said, I believe that a lead should be
10:25hit
10:2517 times minimum. And I tell people this, don't overcomplicate this with trying to put it in your
10:32tasks or your computer. Get a black calendar appointment book. Okay. Very simple.
10:39Write the name down. The name goes down in the black calendar. So the moment it comes in,
10:45you put it in Joe Blow or Cindy or whatever the lead's name is. And this is what I say.
10:50So simple.
10:51Rotate that name in that calendar until they buy or die. Doesn't matter, you know, how many times you
10:58hit that lead. And I say this, look, in the first week, it should be called, texted at least five
11:06times.
11:06And the next week twice. And it's like this every single week until they finally responded. And I
11:13got to tell you, Tracy, from my perspective and what I see, most of the deals that are happening
11:17are leads from six months, nine months, a year ago that never picked up the call. And then finally,
11:25eight months, nine months, a year later, they're picking up and they're ready to go. And guess what?
11:29You've got no competition because nobody stuck with them for that long. I can guarantee you that.
11:37Because remember, they don't just go on Tracy one site. They're going on multiple sites early on.
11:43Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to switch gears here. There's a lot of debate right now about portals
11:50and data control and whether brokerages are becoming too dependent on companies like Zillow.
11:55So how do you think about that balance and kind of using the platform without letting the platform
12:01own your business per se?
12:06Well, you're not going to want to hear my answer. My answer is this. Look, I've been in business a
12:11long
12:11time. I would love to say, well, it'd be nice not to be relying on any portal, but I'm a
12:19realist.
12:21I watch it. People don't have business. They're not going out there. It is a nightmare to try to
12:28find your own business. It's really, really difficult. The people that say, well, you know,
12:32we're not going to buy any leads. They're not really doing any business. The people that are
12:37doing business are in the lead portal world. And here's the deal. I just saw this happen with my
12:43own with my own SOI, my own sphere, my own sphere business. They went on to the big platform
12:51because they just started to look right. They didn't want to call me. They didn't, you know,
12:55so they just wanted to go on there and look. Sure enough, they went online, they clicked
12:59and they wanted more information on the property. Believe it or not, came to one of my agents
13:04companies. And even my own personal business will be gone to the portals because that's just the way
13:10it is. And, you know, so you, you know, if you don't join them, you're going to have problems in
13:16your business. You really are. So industry consolidation is accelerating. You know, we've
13:21got Compass Anywhere and RealRemax and EXP and HomeSmart and now Bed Bath & Beyond and Fathom.
13:27So does that change the equation for independent teams and brokerages like yours?
13:33See, I actually think it creates opportunity. Big companies get bigger, independent companies,
13:39you know, they have to get smarter, right? So we're able to make decisions quicker than most
13:44companies, right? We can coach faster. We adjust our systems faster. We adapt to technology faster
13:52and culture, you know, becomes a, you know, a competitive advantage. And that's where,
13:56you know, that's why it's very difficult to duplicate at a massive scale.
14:02It really is.
14:03Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so a lot of teams grew fast when leads were cheaper and the market
14:09was easier. What separates the teams that kind of survive the market and those that don't?
14:16Well, the teams that survive measure everything. They're the ones that are measuring the calls,
14:20the appointments, contacts, conversions, showings, pending deals, conversion rates. So most struggling
14:30teams are operating, they're just operating on emotions. Successful teams operate on numbers
14:36and the market doesn't care about how motivated you feel. It rewards everyone that has consistent
14:43execution, period. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And if you were advising a team leader
14:51who wants to really scale paid leads in the coming year, what would you tell them to fix before they
14:57start spending money on those leads? I would fix their training program first. I'd have them look deep
15:06into their training program. One, you know, how are they training agents from day one? Meaning that
15:12because assume, Tracy, that they're a smaller team, right? And initially, what does their training look
15:19like to an agent that's going to be getting leads? And number two, accountability. How are you going to
15:25hold this agent accountable? And number three, when they do go on to live leads, you know, how do they
15:34sound talking to that lead, right? Would you talk to that person that you're giving leads to? And I see
15:39this happening in the industry. They just put anybody on these leads and they sound terrible on
15:46the phone and they're burning up the actual leads. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so now I'm going to go
15:53into a little bit of a lightning round. So this is kind of first thing that comes to mind. What's
15:59one
16:00metric you watch every day? Appointment set rate. Okay. Everything starts there. If the appointments
16:08are growing, everything else is, you know, usually the closings are following. True. So what's the
16:14biggest mistake agents make after they get the appointment? They stop selling. The appointment
16:19isn't, you know, the finish line, right? It's where the trust is built. Okay. How quickly can you tell
16:25whether an agent will succeed with internet leads? Within the first month, right? So I look at
16:31consistency. You know, I look at, are they even actually making calls? Are they prospecting? You
16:36know, how good are they at follow-up and are they staying coachable? Meaning that are they coming to,
16:43because we have three different meetings a week, are they actually showing up to the meetings to get
16:47better? And if they're not, then I know they're generally not going to work out. Yeah. Better lead
16:53converter, the natural salesperson or the disciplined follow-up machine. Well, I mean, that's, I got to
17:00tell you, I think the disciplined, you know, follow-up machine is where you went, right? Yeah. Yeah. All
17:07right. Final question. AI and real estate, a game changer or a shiny object? It's a game changer.
17:14It's a, it's an absolute game changer. In fact, if you are not, if you are not on the AI
17:23game,
17:24you are going to be left behind. It'll almost be like, you know, you're on horseback teleporting
17:32forward and you got spaceships. You'll be on horseback. Yeah. Well, Anthony, thanks so much for
17:40joining Real Trendy. It's always a pleasure having you on. Tracy, it's always a pleasure
17:45seeing all of you say hello to everyone and God bless. And I appreciate you taking the time to
17:51talk with me and hearing my point of view. Yeah, absolutely. Great. Thanks so much. All right. Cheers.
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