- 5 days ago
In this episode, RealTrending host Tracey Velt sits down with two powerhouse independent brokerage leaders on opposite coasts: Michele Harrington, CEO of FirstTeam Real Estate in Southern California, and Bess Freedman, CEO of Brown Harris Stevens in New York. Together, they unpack what it really means to be independent in an era of consolidation, margin pressure, and nonstop industry disruption. From culture and control to capital and technology, they share how independents can stay nimble, agent-centric, and deeply connected to the consumer.
Michele and Bess pull back the curtain on their new East Coast–West Coast collaboration, a marketing- and relationship-driven partnership that stops short of a traditional acquisition model. Instead of rolling up into a single brand, they’re choosing to share ideas, marketing strategies, and referral opportunities while keeping their unique cultures fully intact. You’ll hear how their marketing teams are working in lockstep, what this means for listing exposure on both coasts, and why they believe “collaborative, not consolidated” is the model to watch.
The conversation also dives into some of the most debated topics in brokerage today—private listing networks, Bed Bath & Beyond’s entry into real estate, and the long-tail impact of class action lawsuits and thin brokerage margins. Michele and Bess don’t hold back on where they see consumer risk, where private networks can actually serve sellers, and why they think the next decade will be the “age of the independents.” They share how agents’ expectations have shifted toward growth, coaching, and AI-powered tools—and why human connection, trust, and storytelling still matter more than ever in a tech-driven world.
Finally, in a fast-paced lightning round, the two leaders offer sharp, one-word descriptors for the future of independents, pinpoint the biggest threats to their model, and call out what every brokerage CEO should be laser-focused on right now—from AI to consumer trust. If you’re leading a brokerage, building a team, or just trying to understand where this industry is headed, this episode delivers clear signals amid all the noise.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
What “independence” really means in 2026
Why Michele and Bess believe freedom, flexibility, and culture are their core strategic advantages
How answering only to agents and consumers changes decision-making and speed of execution
Inside the First Team–Brown Harris Stevens collaboration
How an East Coast–West Coast partnership can expand listing exposure without an acquisition
The role their marketing leaders play in aligning strategy across New York and California
Why they view this as a model of sharing power rather than consolidating it
The truth about private listings and consumer impact
Michele and Bess pull back the curtain on their new East Coast–West Coast collaboration, a marketing- and relationship-driven partnership that stops short of a traditional acquisition model. Instead of rolling up into a single brand, they’re choosing to share ideas, marketing strategies, and referral opportunities while keeping their unique cultures fully intact. You’ll hear how their marketing teams are working in lockstep, what this means for listing exposure on both coasts, and why they believe “collaborative, not consolidated” is the model to watch.
The conversation also dives into some of the most debated topics in brokerage today—private listing networks, Bed Bath & Beyond’s entry into real estate, and the long-tail impact of class action lawsuits and thin brokerage margins. Michele and Bess don’t hold back on where they see consumer risk, where private networks can actually serve sellers, and why they think the next decade will be the “age of the independents.” They share how agents’ expectations have shifted toward growth, coaching, and AI-powered tools—and why human connection, trust, and storytelling still matter more than ever in a tech-driven world.
Finally, in a fast-paced lightning round, the two leaders offer sharp, one-word descriptors for the future of independents, pinpoint the biggest threats to their model, and call out what every brokerage CEO should be laser-focused on right now—from AI to consumer trust. If you’re leading a brokerage, building a team, or just trying to understand where this industry is headed, this episode delivers clear signals amid all the noise.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
What “independence” really means in 2026
Why Michele and Bess believe freedom, flexibility, and culture are their core strategic advantages
How answering only to agents and consumers changes decision-making and speed of execution
Inside the First Team–Brown Harris Stevens collaboration
How an East Coast–West Coast partnership can expand listing exposure without an acquisition
The role their marketing leaders play in aligning strategy across New York and California
Why they view this as a model of sharing power rather than consolidating it
The truth about private listings and consumer impact
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00So what does it look like when two sharp brokers from the East Coast, West Coast get together and form
00:08a collaboration?
00:09Today, I spoke with Michelle Harrington, CEO of First Team, and I spoke with Bess Friedman.
00:16She is CEO of Brown Hair Stevens, and we talked all about a recent marketing collaboration that we had,
00:22but we also got into some deep discussions about just the current landscape for independent brokers,
00:31the new people getting into real estate like Bed, Bath & Beyond, and what the future holds for independent brokerages.
00:41So enjoy the podcast.
00:43So Bess and Michelle, this has been a long time coming.
00:46I think we tried to schedule this over a month ago.
00:48I'm glad to have you both on the podcast.
00:52Glad to be here.
00:53Thank you for having us.
00:54Yeah, so nice to be here.
00:55Thank you, Tracy.
00:56Nice to see you, Michelle.
00:57Good to see you too, Bess.
01:00So you both lead very strong independent firms in major coastal markets.
01:04And my first question is just at a time when so much consolidation is happening,
01:10what does it mean to be independent today and what does it have to become?
01:15And Bess, I'll start with you on that one.
01:18You know, I think independence to me signifies freedom and flexibility to grow a culture that is important to whatever
01:26the company is.
01:28And I think you just, as far as what it has to become, I think you have to stay true
01:33to what is needed for the agents.
01:36You have to advance with your technology.
01:38You have to deliver all the things that is needed, but you don't have to lose sight of what matters,
01:44which is taking care of the agents, giving great service, taking care of the consumers.
01:49Those things are fundamental.
01:50I mean, technology changes, but what we do as professionals hasn't changed much.
01:56And Michelle?
01:58Yeah, I think the really cool thing about being independent is you only have to answer to your agents and
02:05consumers.
02:06You don't have to answer to a board of directors.
02:08You don't have to answer to shareholders.
02:10That level of bureaucracy and red tape and that we all wanted to avoid when we got into the real
02:17estate business.
02:17I mean, we got into this real estate business because we wanted freedom and independence and those things.
02:23And then we go end up working for this big company where we have to get permission to do things.
02:28And I think that sucks.
02:30So I think being with an independent company allows you to be who you are and do things without restrictions
02:40and within, obviously, ethics and the law.
02:44But you have more freedom.
02:46You have more flexibility.
02:48You can kind of carve your own path.
02:51A lot of times, I think us as independents, we're more in tuned with what the agents need and their
02:58career path.
02:59And we're not trying to please shareholders.
03:02We're trying to make our agents' lives better.
03:05So go ahead.
03:07I just want to add to that because I was at a firm that was public before this in real
03:13estate.
03:13And there is a big difference between the two.
03:17And look, you have to go where it works for you.
03:20But I can tell you, having been at both, I love the fact that you have the freedom to create
03:26and dream out loud and build the things that matter to you.
03:30And there's not all these layers and sort of this wiping away and erasing of things that are really important.
03:36Yeah, and you both did build something.
03:39So you have a partnership or a collaboration.
03:43Tell me, Michelle, I'll start with you.
03:45Tell me a little bit about what you recently decided to do, partner with.
03:51Yeah, so, you know, with all the consolidation and everything and all the noise, it was really interesting to kind
03:58of think of things outside the box.
04:00And that's the one reason I love being independent is because you can really think outside the box.
04:05Not everything needs to be like so cookie cutter.
04:08So, you know, Bess runs an amazing independent company on a different coast than us.
04:13We don't compete with each other.
04:15Why not collaborate?
04:16Why not, you know, help our agents by getting more exposure to our listings on both coasts?
04:22Why not, you know, collaborate on thought leadership and on technology and all the things that we're building?
04:30And it just made a lot of sense.
04:31And we're super excited to have a partner in New York.
04:35Great.
04:36And Bess, can you give some more specifics about the partnership?
04:40I think it's also, I mean, it's not just people look at it and think, oh, you know, okay.
04:45So referrals back and forth, but it's much more than that.
04:48It's building relationships.
04:50It's, you know, Michelle's able to maintain her culture and the things that matter to them, which will be different
04:56than what matters to us.
04:58Not like in huge ways, but every company has different cultures.
05:03And so I think what it allows us to do is work together, get to know each other, build relationships,
05:08share business, share ideas, you know, be aligned with what matters to us in this industry, you know, care about
05:14the future of what's happening.
05:15And I think it strengthens us as a whole in what we do.
05:20And so it's just a win-win.
05:22The acquisitions, you know, typically people get rolled into a company and then they lose everything that they built and
05:29they become that bigger company.
05:31And this was a way to share versus sort of own power and get bigger.
05:36It was a way to, like, open your arms and let's work together.
05:39Let's share ideas.
05:40Let's grow.
05:40Let's build business.
05:42Let's introduce agents to each other.
05:44And let's do this together.
05:46And I found it to be such a great idea.
05:48And I'm really excited about it.
05:50Yeah.
05:51And, Michelle, you know, this was announced about a little over a month ago, I think.
05:56So tell me what's happened since then.
06:01So, I mean, we're just kind of getting it launched right now.
06:04So definitely we have a lot on the horizon and a lot is basically sharing ideas.
06:10Like our marketing teams have been working together and making sure that we are on the same page with what
06:17we're doing and how we're rolling it out in New York, how we're rolling it out in California and what
06:23the agents get to see.
06:24And we're actually having, I believe, next week, we're kind of, like, rolling it out to the agents in a
06:29bigger way so they can get a chance to see the advantages that they have with the program.
06:34And a lot of it is around marketing.
06:37So both of our VPs of marketing, or your CMO, I think, Beth, are working together and really doing a
06:44lot for the agents in the way of marketing and making sure that we are all moving in the same
06:50direction as far as also, like, where the industry is going.
06:53Because I think Beth and I are very aligned and where we like to see the industry go and making
06:59sure we have a bigger voice in that.
07:02Yeah, my marketing, my CMO, Matt Leone, really gets credit for this collaboration.
07:08He's the one who brought it to us and said, why don't we do this?
07:11It's a different way of doing things.
07:13And so he should get complete credit for this.
07:16And he was just in my office a little while ago.
07:18So we're just getting it started.
07:20We should check in in six months or so and see what we've been doing together, what we've achieved.
07:25We need a little bit of time.
07:27Yeah.
07:27Well, you both have amazing marketing staff.
07:31I mean, Lauren's great.
07:32And Matt, you guys are top notch.
07:35So, yeah.
07:38Well, private listings, I've talked to both of you about them.
07:42Um, I kind of, I know where you stand on them, but a lot of things have happened since then.
07:48So do you see them and Michelle, I'll start with you.
07:51Do you see them as a competitive advantage, a consumer risk issue, or just simply a sign that brokers want
07:57to control their own destiny?
08:00Yeah, I mean, I think there's, there's a lot of different ways to look at it and a lot of
08:04different platforms and systems you can use.
08:06But the ultimate goal, the ultimate goal for your sellers is maximum exposure.
08:11So we have always had a private listing network, not to sell properties offline, but to build up momentum so
08:20that ultimately the weekend it hits the market is the most eyeballs on the property.
08:25So we do our private exclusives inside first team, which we do have the most listings out of any other
08:32brand in the Orange County market, which is our main market.
08:36And then we go to Zillow previews.
08:39We get 24 hours to build up more momentum.
08:41Then we go live on the market.
08:43So the day it hits the market, our views, our unique visitors, everything to that property is at the maximum
08:51amount it could possibly be.
08:53So we use that ramp up period.
08:54So I believe that a private listing network, if you have a big market share in an area can work
09:00good for building up momentum, but it doesn't work or do any good.
09:05If you're just using it to keep out other brokers or to kind of, you know, capitalize on your, you
09:14know, massive amount in a certain area and, and kind of use it, that that's a detriment to your consumers,
09:20to your sellers.
09:21So if you use it in the right way, it can be a great way to build momentum for your
09:26sellers, but you know, and I don't know what's in people's heads.
09:30So I can't say if they're using it the right way or the wrong way.
09:32I just know that we try and get the maximum amount of exposure.
09:36And that's what I hope that most brokers would be doing.
09:41And Bess?
09:41Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much confusion in the marketplace about this whole private listing idea.
09:50And look, there, there's always been private listings, meaning a seller, a unique person who needs special treatment.
09:57And we've always been able to adjust according to what their needs are.
10:01We do not have a private listing network because we don't have the demand for it.
10:07This is, I believe that that was sort of, at least in our markets, was manufactured, the narrative to sort
10:15of create this, you know, wall up.
10:18And I get it.
10:19It's a fight really against the aggregators is my understanding.
10:22And I understand that wanting to be in charge of your information, but I just don't think, in our market
10:28at least, we advise our sellers, you know, maximum exposure, as Michelle said, is ideal.
10:35And it's how you get true price discovery.
10:37And most sellers want to do that.
10:39They do.
10:41And I think it's very misleading, at least for us, to encourage sellers not to do that.
10:46It can harm the listing because if they accept it and they accept a deal in a private listing network,
10:52they will never know what price they would have yielded out in the entire orbit.
10:57So, yeah, I think that's why we're seeing these crackdowns.
11:00You're seeing these bans on private listings.
11:02We have one in New York that's coming.
11:04The governor's going to sign it because it hurts the consumer.
11:09It's not like seller choice was eradicated.
11:12Sellers have always had the choice.
11:13They still have the choice.
11:14This is something else, but it's been spun into this fakakta narrative.
11:20So we'll have to see.
11:23We'll have to see how that all pans out.
11:26You know, we'll see how it pans out.
11:28Absolutely.
11:29And, you know, this wasn't one of the questions I sent you, but it happened since I sent these, is
11:35the whole, a lot of consolidation, including like Bed, Bath & Beyond,
11:40getting into real estate, which has reminds me of Sears and Home Depot in the past.
11:46So, Michelle, I'll start with you.
11:48What are your thoughts on kind of this new ecosystem evolving?
11:52It hasn't worked before.
11:54That doesn't mean it won't work now.
11:55But what are your thoughts on that?
11:57My thoughts were just like, what in the world is going on, like Bed, Bath & Beyond?
12:04Like, I feel like I didn't even know they were still around.
12:06And now they're going to buy a real estate, and I'm not familiar with Fathom, so I don't know what
12:14kind of real estate company that is.
12:15But why in the world would you want to get into, like, our margins are so tiny.
12:21Like, if I was going to start a business right now, I might start as a real estate agent or
12:26a team leader, but I definitely wouldn't start a brokerage.
12:28Like, so they're smoking crack.
12:32Best?
12:33Yeah, I think it was – it's interesting.
12:37You know, it's true, but Michelle said that the margins are so skinny.
12:40I mean, I would – I don't – you know, people don't go into this business thinking they're going to
12:44get rich.
12:45You know, we do it because we really love it, and it's a place where we're really – we feel
12:51we're helping people to, you know, sell and buy and do all those things, which is really sacred work.
12:57But, you know, look, if Bed Bath & Beyond has a company and they want to get into real estate,
13:02and I wish everybody the best.
13:05I mean, it's more competition, and, you know, if they do it the right way, they could be successful.
13:10You never know what will be.
13:12Yeah, definitely.
13:13I mean, it's just interesting to me that – well, they – it's not that old – the old Bed
13:20Bath & Beyond, either.
13:21Overstock bought them when they – I think they went into bankruptcy.
13:25And so they're adding on to their plethora of businesses.
13:30And most of them are in, like, home improvement or home goods and then brokerage.
13:35Of course, with Fathom came mortgage and, I think, title as well.
13:40So, yeah, it will be interesting.
13:42I've heard there are some other exciting acquisitions coming up.
13:48I don't know anything about them other than we'll be surprised.
13:51So it should be interesting.
13:54I mean, the real estate industry, like, in the last – I would say the last five years has been
14:00– it's, like, one thing after the next.
14:02I mean, there's so much noise.
14:04And then I wonder, was it always this chaotic?
14:07And we just are thinking of, like, recent history because it seems like every day there's something new that goes
14:13on.
14:14You know, there's, like, a lot of drama in our space as of late.
14:17And I feel like a lot of it was, you know, the class action lawsuits really, like, damaged a lot
14:24of brokers financially, you know, especially the ones that NAR didn't cover.
14:29And, you know, so we had, you know, millions of dollars to pay out in a class action.
14:35Then we had, you know, I don't know, since 2001 was our last good year.
14:39So what is that, four bad years in real estate or we're going on our fourth – this year might
14:44not be so bad – but at least three bad years in real estate.
14:47So brokers are – they're hurting.
14:49Of course they're consolidating.
14:51Of course they're selling.
14:52And they're just, like, you know, the survive to 2005.
14:57And then 2005 came and went, and it didn't get any better.
15:00And they're just, like, you know what?
15:02I give up, you know.
15:03So I feel their pain.
15:05I think we're lucky we're in a really good position with a founder who has, you know, independent wealth and
15:12we can ride out these storms.
15:14But I think that – I feel their pain.
15:16And so – but I also think that all this consolidation and all this really – it's going to be
15:26the age of the independence for the next 10 years.
15:28Because I don't know.
15:30Like I said, as a real estate agent, I wanted freedom.
15:32I wanted independence.
15:33And it's – I absolutely would never want to work for a company that was a huge, you know, conglomerate.
15:41Like, that's just not what I believe in.
15:43And I think a lot of agents feel the same way.
15:46So I think it's going to be the age of the independence.
15:48People are not going to want to be with the big behemoths.
15:50And we're going to see a lot of agents leave because they don't want to be the same as the
15:57person they're farming against or the three or four other people they're farming against.
16:00They want to differentiate themselves.
16:02And you can't really differentiate yourself when you have a company that's the same as the other company that's the
16:07same as the other company.
16:08So I think we're – you know, Bess and I are going to kill it over the next 10 years.
16:13And I'm excited about that.
16:16Yeah, I think that – I think it's – Tracy, I agree.
16:20I mean, I think it's interesting that these huge companies like Coldwell Banker, you know, Corcoran, you know, who are
16:28also public companies and owned by anywhere, you know, were in financial straits.
16:33They were in so much debt and that they couldn't make it and they got bought and they got acquired.
16:38And so, you know, the bigger, bigger, bigger, you know, that – some agents will be fine and attracted to
16:44that and stay with that.
16:45But it's true that, you know, we've been recruiting now more than ever.
16:49We are hiring so many agents.
16:51It's unprecedented for us.
16:54And I think it's because people – you know, agents want to be seen.
16:58You know, they want to know that there's somebody there.
17:00They want to be able to get information.
17:02They want to know that they matter.
17:06I mean, we're not dealing with widgets.
17:08You know, these are people who have lives and children and animals and all this stuff and life is messy.
17:15And they want to know that they matter.
17:18And if they don't feel a sense of that and respect and trust, they don't stick around.
17:25And so I think for independent firms like Michelle, like myself and other firms, this is definitely a moment to
17:32shine.
17:32It's sort of like people want to be at the family office versus the big bank.
17:36And we're kind of like that Michelin-starred restaurant versus fast food.
17:40And that's attractive to people.
17:43Agents like that high-quality, high-touch.
17:45It's not for everybody.
17:47It doesn't mean that a big box place – that's good for some agents as well.
17:51It's just that I think this is a unique time in the industry.
17:55Yeah.
17:55I don't – you had mentioned that you feel like it's more chaotic.
17:59I think it goes in cycles.
18:01I mean, I remember when Zillow came and we put listings online.
18:04And that was like the talk of the century that – you know?
18:08And then we've got like when Sears and Home Depot came in and banks into real estate, like total chaos
18:15during that time.
18:16It just seems to come in cycles where you have a nice little lull and then boom, everything happens at
18:22once.
18:22So, yeah.
18:23Yeah.
18:24Maybe you're right.
18:25Maybe it is cycles.
18:26And we have short memories anyway.
18:27I think you have to as a broker.
18:30You do.
18:30To survive.
18:31You definitely do.
18:32You have to be able to pivot and let go of stuff.
18:35Yeah.
18:36Definitely.
18:37So, large national firms can bring scale technology capital.
18:41And you talked about like independence can move faster and can stay closer to the agent and the consumer.
18:48So, where else do you see an edge?
18:52You know, have things changed?
18:55Are you seeing the results of that now, agents coming to you?
18:59Like, Bess, you did mention that you're recruiting more now.
19:04We'll start with Michelle.
19:05Are you seeing that happen right now?
19:08Yeah.
19:08Our recruiting numbers are, you know, the best they've been in four years.
19:13Actually, I think they're probably the best they've been in like 10 years.
19:16So, yes.
19:17Agents are definitely looking for differentiation.
19:21You know, they want to be different.
19:24They don't want to be the same as everybody else in their market.
19:26Like I said, we're number one in Orange County.
19:29Number two is Cobalt Banker.
19:30Number three, I think, is EXP.
19:31And then Compass.
19:32You know, those are big companies.
19:34And they can be a part of something that still has big market share but is not a big company.
19:39And they can get the feeling of, you know, a manager who coaches them.
19:44You know, like I think the biggest thing we bring to the table is agent growth.
19:49And we have a track record of coaching, mentoring, and helping agents grow their business, helping them build teams, recruiting
19:56for their teams.
19:57You know, we do things that just other brokerages just don't do and can't do.
20:03And I think a lot of times don't even know how to do because the leadership has never sold a
20:10house.
20:11You know, so it's a lot.
20:12Their learning curve is so much harder.
20:14Like, you know, I was a realtor.
20:16I know what it's like to be a realtor.
20:18I know what it's like to be a team leader.
20:19I know what it's like to be a broker owner.
20:21Like, there's, you know, how am I going to help an agent go from a realtor to a team leader
20:27to a broker owner if I've never done it myself?
20:31So I think there's huge advantages.
20:33And, yes, we're seeing the recruiting is off the hook right now.
20:36And, Bess, you've got, you know, a ton of competition in New York.
20:40You always really have.
20:43It's true.
20:43So, you know, how are you building out your niche and what are you seeing in the market right now?
20:50I mean, I think we continue to double down on what we stand for, the things that matter.
20:56The one thing that we do that is unique in New York City is that we manage roughly 400 buildings
21:03that no other company.
21:05Douglas Elliman sold their managed building business last year.
21:09So the managed building piece is really nice because the agents are broker specialists on our buildings.
21:16And we also have inroads information, help with board packages, all those sorts of things.
21:22So it's a plus to be able to have that.
21:25But, yeah, there's a lot of competition in New York City.
21:28But as Michelle said, you know, Corcoran, Sotheby's, and Compass are now all the same firm here in New York.
21:37So the agents that have come to us and our recruiting has never been, we call you, it's more agents
21:42are saying, I don't want to be at this firm anymore.
21:45And we will talk to them is because when they go on pitches, they feel like they're at one place
21:51and they want to be able to distinguish themselves and have separation, as Michelle said.
21:55So that's really what we've been seeing lately.
21:59We're really in a, I think we're in a special spot.
22:03But it doesn't mean we don't have a lot of work to do because there's always, there are always things
22:08that we have to pay attention to.
22:10We never get comfortable ever.
22:12You can never get comfortable.
22:13If you're comfortable, something is wrong.
22:17And, Michelle, do you see agents asking for anything different in today's kind of market than they were before?
22:26Are their expectations higher?
22:28Are they looking for different services?
22:30What are you seeing out there?
22:32I think the two things that the agents are asking for more than anything is growth.
22:38They want to go to a place where there's a person that will hold them accountable and help them grow.
22:43And that just doesn't exist in a lot of brokerages.
22:48And then the other thing they're asking for is, like, how are you using AI?
22:51And we're so into AI and building things on AI platforms right now that I think the technology that these
22:59companies built even a year ago is obsolete already.
23:04And that's one advantage I think independents have is that we're not building our technology.
23:10I mean, God forbid we spent, like, you know, all that money building technology a year ago.
23:15Now it's, like, it's worthless because AI has changed everything about what we do.
23:20So, you know, I think sometimes people think that independent companies are not technology forward.
23:28We are extremely technology forward.
23:31I would say we're on the cutting edge of it.
23:33And so we deliver that to our agents and we deliver it fast.
23:37Like, we're already signing contracts with Lovable and, you know, an amazing AI platform that our agents will be able
23:44to build things on their own.
23:46And it's really exciting.
23:49So I would say those two things.
23:50How am I going to grow?
23:52How are you going to help me increase my business?
23:54And how are you using AI?
23:56We're hearing that a lot.
23:57Yeah, I think the growth is important and trust.
24:02The growth trust is important.
24:04Marketing, which includes the AI component.
24:07You know, most of the agents come and everybody wants something different, but they have to be able to market
24:12according to what works for them.
24:15You know, some agents are doing podcasts and things like that.
24:18And some agents are very low key and quiet and under the radar.
24:23I don't do any social media.
24:24So we are, it's just not one size fits all.
24:28It depends, you know.
24:29And so depending on what the agent wants to do, wants to focus on, we're leaning into that.
24:36So it's marketing, it's trust, it's AI.
24:39But AI, I'm very cautious with the agents.
24:42Obviously, we have the tools and things to make them more efficient in whatever way they want.
24:47But make sure not to erase the things that are important.
24:51So if they're writing descriptions, I get it.
24:53It helps with everything.
24:54But don't take away the story or something that you could add that's special to you that nobody else knows.
25:01I mean, that's the concern I have with AI.
25:04You don't want it to totally replace the human element of our own story because our lived experiences are ours.
25:11And so people are just like chat GPT-ing everything.
25:15And I'm like, okay, like, don't be so frivolous.
25:18Like, you're giving away your whole life story and you're not, like, share a little bit.
25:23Dig in.
25:23Like, emotion is so special.
25:25AI doesn't have emotion.
25:27They don't know what it's like when you lose your dog.
25:29They don't know what it's like when you have to go through a divorce or, you know, they, so, you
25:34know, live that stuff and describe it and make sure that you're able to hold on to it.
25:38I always caution agents not to, like, get too far off in the deep end with AI.
25:43Yeah, definitely.
25:45So I want to go back to your partnership as my final question before we get to our lightning round.
25:52In a year, what does success look like for you with the collaboration you have going?
25:57And, Bess, I'll start with you.
25:58I think for me the success would look like agents definitely more connected to Michelle's, to first team.
26:07Us, like, knowing each other, some get-togethers, some marketing collaborations, maybe a few deals together, getting done, us referring
26:16some, you referring back to us.
26:18I think, to me, that would be success.
26:19Some good growth in that way.
26:21Friendships, relationships, moving in that direction.
26:25To me, that would be success.
26:27Okay.
26:27Michelle?
26:28Yeah, I agree.
26:30Relationships, you know, are beautiful, and that's where we want to get out of this.
26:33I think also, like, highlighting independence.
26:36I think that, you know, Bess and I are great spokespeople for what it means to be independent and what
26:44independent brokers bring to the industry.
26:47And I think that sometimes, you know, people forget that there are regional independent brokers who, a lot of times,
26:56are a better fit for agents than the big box brands.
27:00So, I think Bess and I can easily, you know, spotlight that for the world.
27:07Yeah.
27:08Definitely.
27:09All right.
27:09I'm going to go into our lightning round.
27:11I'll start with you, Michelle.
27:13One word to describe the independent brokerage model in 2026.
27:19Fierce.
27:20Okay.
27:21I didn't look over the question, so I'm just coming up.
27:24Yeah.
27:29Singular.
27:30Okay.
27:31Bess, biggest threat to independence, capital, technology, recruiting, or listing control?
27:37Listing control.
27:38Michelle?
27:40I would say, in general, capital.
27:43Okay.
27:44And, Michelle, I'll start with you.
27:46What should every brokerage CEO be paying more attention to right now?
27:50AI.
27:52Okay.
27:53Bess?
27:54Consumer trust.
27:56All right.
27:57Last one.
27:58Bess, finish this sentence.
27:59The independent brokerage of the future will be?
28:03Collaborative, transparent, and high touch.
28:06Okay.
28:06Michelle?
28:10Techie, have authority, and coaching their agents.
28:16Great.
28:16Well, thank you both for coming on the podcast and sharing about your new collaboration.
28:21I'm excited for you both.
28:23And I wish you much success with it.
28:26I'll look forward to catching up with you and hearing some of the results in about six months or so.
28:31Thank you, Tracy.
28:32Thank you, Tracy.
28:32And thanks, Michelle.
28:33It was nice chatting with both of you.
28:35Yes.
28:36Thank you both.
28:37Bye, guys.
28:38Thanks.
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