- 4 weeks ago
Tobi and Grant debate whether Washington adding another wide receiver is the right move with so many young players on the roster.
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00:00This is a topic that we spent so much time on as a show
00:03during the early part of the offseason through free agency
00:06that we've kind of almost put it on the back burner.
00:08But it is all over the headlines and the news for the team going into camp
00:13because of Stefan Diggs' interest apparently in being here,
00:17Brandon Ayuk being desperate to be here.
00:19That in and of itself is telling, I'd say, though,
00:22that of the veterans that are available, that everyone's talking about,
00:27in differing degrees, it does seem like both of them want to be on this team.
00:31And Diggs, we haven't heard outright just say, sign me, please.
00:35Ayuk's begging and pleading and sending love letters and leaving them in our locker.
00:38He thinks he's on the team.
00:39Like a sixth grade girl who's just obsessed, right?
00:43But there's also Terry McLaurin's commentary from the last few days.
00:47So let's get into this from all angles.
00:49Let's start with Jeremy Fowler of ESPN on Stefan Diggs
00:53and the fact that this is more than a two- or three-horse race at this point.
00:58So I'm told that at least five teams that need a receiver
01:00have been checking in on his market and see how things are going
01:03as he works out on his own.
01:04I'm told Diggs is highly motivated here
01:06because he's not rehabbing an ACL like he was last year.
01:09He only played about 55% of the snaps for New England.
01:11Still got 1,000 yards.
01:13So he feels like he can be a really good number two receiver for a top quarterback.
01:17Now, Washington is intriguing to him
01:19because Jaden Daniels, young quarterback, he's from that DMV area.
01:22The rumors around the league are that Washington could add a receiver
01:25at some point to go with Terry McLaurin.
01:27So something should shake out for Diggs.
01:29But hey, look, these guys don't always want to go to training camp
01:32and be in the 90-degree heat.
01:33They can wait a week or two before they sign.
01:35I actually think Stefan Diggs has the possibility of having a huge season.
01:41And you just heard some of why with what Fowler was talking about.
01:45But he went for 1,000 last year, and we look at it, and we go,
01:4885 catches, barely over 1,000.
01:50And that's kind of who he is anymore.
01:52It wasn't like he was able to ramp up a ton last offseason.
01:55He was recovering from a very serious injury.
01:57Then, because of his role within the team where you're not asking him to do a lot
02:01in the way of blocking, and they used bigger receivers like Booty
02:04and Hollins down the field, he wasn't on the field all the time.
02:0955% of snaps, basically, in 11 personnel, you're a slot receiver,
02:13and you don't really have another role all that often.
02:16And he still went for 1,000 yards.
02:18So there's a world, maybe, where he could still be an 1,100.
02:22I'd probably stop short of saying 1,200-yard receiver,
02:25but a guy that could still be more closer to hard-to-cover, one-and-a-half,
02:30maybe a low-level number one, than just a guy that's barely on a roster.
02:34Well, and even if he only went for 800 yards,
02:38the guys that currently are on the roster, going off of their track records,
02:42Van Jefferson is the only guy in a season to go over, like, 400.
02:45So, just going, I understand that they're probably going to have more opportunity here,
02:49they'll probably have a better season than that,
02:51but I can at least go to bed at night, lay my head down knowing,
02:55all right, I've got two guys I can depend on.
02:56And then, I still feel like, okay, maybe Luke McCaffrey can take a step forward.
03:00Maybe Antonio Williams, as a third-round rookie, has a good year.
03:03Maybe, take your pick, De'Ami Brown, recapture some of what he did in the playoffs.
03:06But I don't know that right now, outside of Terry McLaurin, I'm like,
03:10oh yeah, I can definitely bank on that.
03:12I can hope, but what happens if, you know, last year there's some hope for things to come through,
03:17and they didn't, right?
03:18So, I like the idea of having a second guy that I know for a fact,
03:23I know what I'm getting.
03:24And it may not be 1,200 yards, it might not be 1,400 yards,
03:27but I'll take 800, 900, and last year he went for 1,000.
03:30So, if he can capture some of that, I get productivity that I feel like I can count on
03:34right away in this commander's offense.
03:35I think that's really, at its core, what they've got to figure out,
03:39is philosophically, do they agree with you?
03:43Your second receiver for this team, you're hoping, is someone that you can just
03:47set it and forget it.
03:49I want my consistent, be in the right place at the right time,
03:53700-yard safety valve, essentially.
03:56Whereas, the flip side of that, and what I always argue is,
04:00if you always feel that way about the position,
04:03then guys can't really come on.
04:05You're not giving the space for growth.
04:08You're not giving the ability, the flexibility necessary
04:11for Luke McCaffrey to get ops, or Jalen Lane to get targets,
04:15or whoever it might be.
04:16Maybe it's Traylon Burks that they really like.
04:18If you just supplant them, because you're right.
04:22On paper, it's not a great look.
04:24You can't bank on, expect any of those guys to go for 700-plus yards.
04:29But we were just talking about Curtis Mead, who the Nats just drafted.
04:31There was no chance at the beginning of the year,
04:34he wasn't even on this team, that he would end up being
04:36maybe their best right-handed hitter.
04:38And he turned into it, right?
04:40If they had just decided, we've got to go get a veteran,
04:43corner infielder, some long-time Nolan Arenado without the contract,
04:49just jag, because he's got a back of the baseball card that says
04:52he's going to hit 15 homers and drive in 65 runs,
04:56then there's no world for Curtis Mead to become Curtis Mead.
04:59And I think about that a lot with how people want to handle a wide receiver.
05:03That's what they've got to figure out.
05:04Do they want to provide the upside and growth possibilities
05:08for McCaffrey and Lane and Burks, or do you want to bring someone in?
05:12Because as soon as you bring someone in,
05:14Antonio Williams' first year is not going to be as good.
05:17That's fine, but it's just not.
05:19He's not going to have the targets, the opportunities.
05:21And guys like McCaffrey and Lane are next to Cook,
05:24especially McCaffrey because he's been around for multiple years.
05:27Well, and this is what I always come back to on this discussion,
05:29because I think this informs a lot of how you can feel about this.
05:32What are your expectations for the season?
05:35If you just want to see them improve from five wins
05:37and seven or eight wins is a tangible step forward,
05:40I'm fine with this room.
05:42I think their expectation should be that they are trying to get to 10 wins
05:47in a wild card.
05:47And if that's the case, then I need someone else that I feel like I can depend on.
05:51And my thing is, when you look through these receivers,
05:54I understand what you're saying that, well,
05:56Traylon Burks isn't going to get much of a shot or as much of a shot.
05:59Did he not have a shot in Tennessee and he didn't prove anything?
06:01Same thing with Yami Brown.
06:03He didn't have years here.
06:04The only guys that realistically you're probably stunting,
06:07Antonio Williams, we have not seen him play professional football yet,
06:10so you wouldn't be able to say that he hasn't gotten an opportunity yet.
06:14But there's a world, like a multiverse, if I could go full marvel on you,
06:18where they don't sign anyone and Antonio Williams catches 75 balls for 1093
06:23and is one of the talks of the league, right?
06:25Absolutely.
06:26What is the chance?
06:27They got to ask themselves that.
06:28Maybe the chance of that is 17%.
06:30And maybe that's where you prefer Stefan Diggs.
06:32My point is they are just so redundant, though,
06:34that when and if you sign Stefan Diggs,
06:37you are absolutely simultaneously signing up for a much lesser productive
06:41and stunting season for the guy you just drafted in the top 75.
06:46Yeah, I don't disagree with that.
06:48But my thing was we had this discussion when they drafted Antonio Williams,
06:51who people felt were redundant with Luke McCaffrey and Jalen Lane.
06:55And my point was, well, they haven't showed me that I can't draft this guy
06:59to take their spot.
07:00I'm supposed to be offended that the guy that went for 200 yards last year
07:03is maybe going to see less snaps.
07:04I'm supposed to be offended for the guy that couldn't catch passes last season
07:07when he had opportunities, wasn't able to step up.
07:10No, I need guys that are productive.
07:12Those guys are different, I think, for two reasons.
07:15One, to your point, they've had an opportunity, and they didn't take advantage.
07:19Luke came on last year and was playing a lot better, I thought,
07:22before he got hurt, but the numbers are still the numbers.
07:24Coming on, developing, improving at a snail's pace, that's great,
07:28but we're not talking a wide receiver to improve.
07:32Correct.
07:32Okay?
07:33Jalen Lane, to me, looked like an unbelievable punt returner
07:35who wasn't ready for the wide receiver position,
07:37even though it's frustrating because at training camp and at practices,
07:40and I know you were out at some of those,
07:41he was putting guys in a blender.
07:43And it looked to me like, in the slot, at this level, he could do it.
07:46I think two, three years down the road,
07:48if he gets the correct opportunities in development,
07:50he could actually be a really good slot receiver in the league.
07:53But to your point, do you have the time to wait?
07:55Do you have the interest in waiting?
07:57What are the expectations for this year?
07:59The reason I think Williams is different, though, is
08:00there's a gigantic difference between drafting Luke McCaffrey,
08:05barely in the top 100,
08:07like after the third round as a start of the fourth rounder,
08:09and Williams in the top 75,
08:11who is considered a top five player in the class at his position,
08:14maybe, going into this year by some teams.
08:16Like the talent level,
08:17it's the equivalent of signing a guy in free agency for $11 million
08:21as opposed to $4 million and then comparing the two.
08:24Yeah.
08:24Like there is a world where Williams actually
08:27turns into a really good player right away.
08:29That was never that realistic, in my opinion,
08:31for Luke McCaffrey,
08:32who was a guy that nobody thought was going to get drafted as high as he did.
08:37And it was still around later than Williams.
08:39Lane is even more, I would say,
08:42a longer shot to have become that guy early.
08:45He was drafted to help on teams,
08:47didn't really catch a lot of balls in college,
08:49like was more of a gadget guy.
08:50You saw him at Virginia Tech.
08:51Yeah, yeah.
08:51So I think Williams is a completely different player than those other two.
08:55But I understand the larger point,
08:56which is I can't wait for you to do something.
08:59You've got to do it.
09:00And there's an argument somewhere.
09:02There's someone listening that could say,
09:04the guys that are really, really good show it fast.
09:07Terry McLaurin caught a 75-yard touchdown pass
09:10in his first ever game from Case Keenum.
09:12He had a 100-yard game against the Eagles in his debut.
09:14That was a third-round pick.
09:15And they knew two weeks into the offseason
09:18that they had drafted a badass, right?
09:20Yeah.
09:21That's not a top-10 pick.
09:22That's a third-rounder that did that.
09:23So I do think, generally,
09:25if you haven't shown it in those first couple of years,
09:27if you're not coming on,
09:29I'm not just going to keep waiting.
09:31But Williams has quite literally been here for weeks.
09:33He hasn't had a training camp yet.
09:35Yeah, and I don't disagree with anything that you're saying there.
09:38I think it is something where he's a totally different prospect.
09:40You just watch his college tape
09:42compared to Jalen Lane's and Luke McCaffrey's,
09:44and it's very different.
09:46Prospect is a good word.
09:47Think baseball-wise.
09:48It'd be like the No. 3 guy in the system
09:50versus the No. 19 guy.
09:51Yeah, I mean, this is a guy that you expect to come in
09:53and help you out.
09:54So there's no doubt that if you bring in a Stephon Diggs,
09:56you're going to get less targets.
09:58That being said, though,
09:59you're telling me they're never going to run
10:00three wide receiver sets and he can't get on the field?
10:02There are still ways.
10:03To me, this is why I was more interested.
10:06At the beginning of free agency,
10:08I did not want Juwan Jennings
10:09because I thought he'd be too much.
10:10At the end of free agency,
10:11when he got a next-to-nothing deal,
10:13I was much more interested.
10:13Too much meaning you thought it was going to cost too much.
10:15Correct, cost too much.
10:16Now we got a very simple deal
10:17that I would have been more interested in.
10:19And the reason I would almost prefer that kind of a guy
10:21is I know what he is,
10:23and if Antonio Williams is awesome,
10:25well, he just takes his spot.
10:26And he's the No. 2.
10:27Versus you bring in a Stephon Diggs,
10:29you still have to work with Stephon Diggs.
10:32He's not immediately jumping Diggs.
10:34But at the same point,
10:35what's the bad part about having three good receivers?
10:37I think Williams could still prove himself,
10:39and I think there's going to be enough flexibility
10:41and multiplicity to this offense
10:43that if he shows that their best offense
10:45is going to be operating with three receivers,
10:47David Blau would be like,
10:48all right, well, let's figure out
10:48how we can work these guys in together.
10:50I mean, it's the league in 26.
10:52There's going to be more 11 personnel
10:54than you can shake a stick.
10:55Yes.
10:56I'm not worried about all three being on the field.
10:58But the targets go down,
11:00the catches go down,
11:01the plays called for you go down.
11:03It's not zero.
11:04It's not binary.
11:05Like, now he's completely uninvolved.
11:07It's also a guy that essentially
11:09is the version of him
11:10who can play inside,
11:11who can play outside,
11:13who will move around.
11:13Like, I think Williams,
11:16as an example,
11:16when he was drafted,
11:18you know, they talk about him
11:18as like a Monra St. Brown.
11:20Everyone thinks of a Monra
11:21as like a slot-only guy.
11:22He's not anymore.
11:23I mean, he wins on the outside a bunch.
11:25He's gotten better and better and better.
11:27He reminds me a lot of this guy,
11:29oh, Stephon Diggs.
11:30Like, Minnesota into Houston
11:32with all the injuries,
11:34and really, Buffalo Stephon Diggs
11:35is probably the best example.
11:36But I'm not against bringing him in.
11:40The question is,
11:41I think you said it very,
11:43very, very smart point
11:43at the beginning of all this.
11:45What are they looking to be this year?
11:47If Dan Quinn is feeling
11:48a little bit of heat
11:49on the back of his neck
11:50and under his butt,
11:52and he feels like,
11:53I gotta win football games,
11:54then you need to be
11:55in talent acquisition mode.
11:57You need to be in Adam Peters' office
11:58sitting on his desk pretzel style
12:00with your, you know,
12:01hands on your palms going,
12:03hey, AP.
12:04You know, elbows on your knees
12:06just bashfully looking at him going,
12:07you look great today.
12:08Can you get me a wide receiver, please?
12:10Asking for whatever it is
12:11that you need.
12:11Does Peters feel the same way?
12:13Does he think
12:13that they need to win?
12:15They might be sitting there.
12:16This has always been my question,
12:18is there a disconnect
12:20between what we think
12:21the internal temperature is
12:23and what the actual temperature is?
12:25Like, we're standing out
12:26on a hot summer day,
12:27it's 102 degrees,
12:28looking inside,
12:29and assuming the house
12:30is like 78 degrees.
12:32It might be 61 degrees.
12:33Yeah.
12:34They might be really comfortable
12:35because they made the
12:35NFC Championship game that time.
12:37That really might be how they feel.
12:39So if you feel like
12:40you've got some time
12:41and you're not really in a rush,
12:43then maybe you just
12:44roll with what you've got.
12:45This is what Terry McLaurin
12:47had to say about this.
12:48He made the point
12:49that you need an opportunity
12:51to actually break out.
12:52Like, sometimes,
12:54it's the situations
12:55where everyone says
12:55you don't have enough
12:56where someone can actually emerge.
12:58This was what he had to say,
13:00I think it was while he was
13:01filming his commercial
13:02Eastern Motors.
13:02That's not really my job
13:03to add or subtract on the team.
13:06You know what I mean?
13:07My job is to embrace
13:08whoever they bring in.
13:09If they bring someone in,
13:10if they don't bring anyone in,
13:11I have the utmost confidence
13:13that the guys in our room
13:14are going to step up.
13:15The great thing about the NFL,
13:17when the opportunity presents itself,
13:19guys step up every single time.
13:21If it wasn't for Jay Gruen
13:22giving me an opportunity
13:23as a third-round pick,
13:24who knows if I would have got
13:26to start week one
13:27against the Eagles, ironically.
13:29So the great thing about the NFL,
13:31it's filled with opportunity
13:32and we've got a lot of young guys
13:33who are hungry
13:34and looking forward to seize it.
13:37And, you know,
13:37with David's blouse offense,
13:40we're just going to have
13:40an opportunity for guys
13:41to touch the ball,
13:42move around,
13:43and make explosive plays.
13:44And so the more weapons
13:45you can have to make plays
13:47for Jaden,
13:47it makes it easier
13:48and he's a guy who can
13:49really facilitate the football.
13:51Myself, just being a leader,
13:52I just want to continue
13:53to push our room,
13:54lead by example,
13:55be out there at practice,
13:56and lead at a great pace
13:58and, you know,
13:58continue to make the most
14:00of my opportunities.
14:01That's a pro's pro right there.
14:03I tell you what,
14:04I like that,
14:04Eastern's Motors
14:05and last year's
14:06Eastern Motors,
14:07Terry McLaurin.
14:07I like that one.
14:08That's a good line.
14:10Which Eastern Motors
14:11McLaurin do you prefer?
14:12The guy who is saying
14:14all the right things
14:15and is the best leader
14:15in the world?
14:16Or the guy that was
14:17at issue with the team
14:19and saying he wouldn't
14:20be showing up anytime soon?
14:21Yeah, I like this one.
14:22His agent buddy
14:23standing over his shoulder,
14:25whispering in his ear.
14:26Yeah.
14:27No, I like this one.
14:28And to his credit,
14:29what he's saying
14:29I think is correct
14:30because this is what's so,
14:32I think that's why
14:33this commander's
14:34receiving room right now
14:35is a bit of an enigma.
14:36You can kind of see
14:36what you want to see.
14:37I could see Antonio Williams
14:39going for 700,
14:40800 yards as a rookie.
14:41I could also see him
14:42having a rookie season
14:42where he goes for 300 yards.
14:44I could see Luke McCaffrey
14:45building off of last season.
14:46I could also see him
14:47being what Luke McCaffrey's
14:48been through the first
14:49couple of years.
14:49And you can do that
14:50with just about everybody on that.
14:51Absolutely.
14:52But there's a couple variables
14:52as to how we,
14:54which outcome we get to.
14:55The first of those variables
14:57would be Jaden Daniels.
14:58We saw him as the elevator.
15:01We saw him as the improver of sorts.
15:05He was the serum
15:07that he shot into the arm
15:09of Deami Brown in the playoffs
15:10to make him great.
15:11He was the,
15:14Darius, help me with my
15:15Marvel Captain America
15:17terminology here.
15:18Steroids.
15:20What is the serum called
15:21that they shoot in?
15:22Super Soldier.
15:22Super Soldier Serum.
15:24Is that, that's what it's called?
15:25Yes.
15:25And it's Steve Rogers?
15:27That'd be correct, yes.
15:27Okay, thank you.
15:28So when, uh,
15:29when little, um,
15:31Jameson Crowder on his last legs,
15:33you know,
15:33sat down in that chair
15:34and then Daniels comes over
15:36and gets shot into his arm,
15:37he's good again.
15:38Yeah.
15:38Olamide Zaccheaus
15:39walked in Steve Rogers,
15:41he came out cap, right?
15:43You need some of that serum
15:44from Jaden Daniels.
15:45But the other part,
15:46and nobody talks about this is,
15:48because this is something
15:49that they really believe over there.
15:50They think their scheme
15:51is going to help
15:52all of these guys a lot.
15:53But this is a much more
15:55quarterback,
15:57receiver-friendly scheme.
15:59You're scheming guys open.
16:00It's the old Kyle Shanahan,
16:02Sean McVay,
16:03Matt LaFleur,
16:04now more recently
16:05with what Blau's going to run,
16:06like the Ben Johnson,
16:07Kevin O'Connell way of operating,
16:09where you're going to get guys
16:11running free
16:12in the middle of the field,
16:13and you're going to be able to
16:15help these receivers
16:16play above their heads
16:17a little bit.
16:18I've watched Anthony Armstrong
16:19go from playing
16:20in the Extreme Football League
16:21and parking lots of malls
16:23to going for 900 yards
16:24in a couple years.
16:25I've watched Jabbar Gaffney
16:26go from jag
16:27to 1,000-yard receiver
16:29in this offense
16:30right here in Washington
16:31with Kyle.
16:32And so they're counting
16:33on a lot of that too,
16:34which I think makes it hard
16:35sometimes for fans.
16:36They're looking at it as
16:37what they've seen
16:38these guys do.
16:39And I think Dan Quinn
16:40is putting a lot of pressure
16:42on David Blau going,
16:43we might give you
16:44fours and fives
16:45and McLaurin,
16:45but you're going to turn them
16:46into sixes and sevens for us.
16:48Yeah, no, and I think
16:49both of those things
16:50can be true.
16:51I mean, with the
16:51Jaden Daniels thing,
16:52I think that the gripe
16:53that I would have,
16:54and it's similar to the one
16:54that Danny has echoed a lot,
16:56is there was a time
16:57when Patrick Mahomes
16:58was on a rookie deal
16:59and he had Tyreek Hill
16:59and Travis Kelsey.
17:00And then they started
17:01to have to pony up
17:02and they couldn't afford,
17:03so then they moved on
17:04and Patrick Mahomes
17:05now has to elevate
17:05the roster around him.
17:07Jaden Daniels is still
17:08on the rookie contract.
17:08That's why I don't have,
17:10that's why I don't love
17:11the fact that you feel like,
17:12well, Jaden Daniels
17:13has to go out
17:13and play Superman a little bit.
17:14Oh, now's when you could
17:16actually give him the luxury
17:17of those couple receivers.
17:18So regardless there,
17:19we'll see and I believe
17:20that he can be the elevator.
17:21I just don't necessarily
17:22want him to have to be that guy.
17:24But to the scheme conversation,
17:26I think it's interesting
17:28because I do get
17:29what you're saying
17:29and I tend to believe it as well.
17:31I think the scheme
17:32that Cliff ran,
17:33because one of the things
17:34I think we do a poor job of
17:36at times is when we talk
17:37about something being
17:37an improvement or a better fit.
17:39You can talk about this
17:40with different sports.
17:41We were having a conversation
17:41about this with Mike Rizzo
17:43before the show
17:44in some things.
17:45It's not to say
17:46that the previous one was bad
17:47because they ran pretty good offenses
17:49with Cliff Kingsbury,
17:49but they're a unique style.
17:51They're a different thing.
17:52And for Cliff,
17:53it relied on Jaden
17:54playing a lot of Superman
17:55and also receivers
17:57having to step up.
17:59And Jaden,
17:59when he would elevate them,
18:01they could end up
18:01having really good plays
18:02versus this one
18:03is going to get guys open
18:04in a more organic way.
18:05But that being said,
18:07when it's third and eight
18:09and they're playing man coverage,
18:10I've got to have somebody
18:11that wins as well.
18:12So I think there is a scenario
18:14where, yes,
18:15all of these guys
18:16have better years
18:17than what they've had
18:18throughout their careers.
18:18And we'll see what
18:19Antonio Williams does
18:20as a rookie.
18:21But aren't you going to sleep
18:22a little bit better
18:22if you know that the other guy
18:24just went for 1,000 yards
18:25opposite Terry McLaurin
18:27in the previous season?
18:28And it can still be something
18:29that all those guys
18:30will still get their reps.
18:31They're still going to filter through.
18:33And Stephon Diggs
18:34went for 1,055%
18:36of snaps last year.
18:37Is it something
18:38that he's going to play
18:3880% of snaps this year?
18:40No.
18:40So you could still find reps
18:42for these guys.
18:43It's going to take away
18:44a little bit from those guys.
18:45But if the expectation is
18:47let's get into the playoffs,
18:49I'm going to feel a lot better
18:50with Terry, Stephon,
18:52and then everybody else
18:53versus Terry
18:53and then everybody else.
18:54Also, the development
18:55of those guys
18:58is less important than winning.
19:00So it doesn't really matter
19:01how you win.
19:02If Antonio Williams
19:04eventually moves on
19:06or never develops
19:07but you're winning
19:07because you are better this year
19:09and then you sign
19:10a wide receiver next year,
19:11the goal isn't just
19:12for your draft pick
19:13to pan out.
19:13Now,
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