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00:00First, second, and short, the Yankees are going to play big games.
00:04And if Goldschmidt's not at first, and McMahon's not at third,
00:08I think the Yankees have an infield problem.
00:12It's a drive by Derry Dutton, Jeff Chisholm goes deep.
00:22Hello and welcome to the Pitchtripe Post. My name is Ryan Sampson,
00:24but he's the star of the show, Joel Sherman. Today's Tuesday, June 30th.
00:27Joel, since the last time we spoke, it has been quite the June swoon for the New York Yankees,
00:32who have lost five straight now, coming into today, Tuesday.
00:35Obviously, interested to hear your thoughts about this team, but before we get to any of that,
00:39as always, I'm going to start off by asking, how are you doing today, sir?
00:42Yeah, good. We're in that moment where, I guess, the World Cup is there,
00:48but before NFL camps open, the traditional sports, hockey's done, basketball's done,
00:54football camps are still a few weeks away from opening. This is traditionally kind of like when
00:59people really laser focus on the team, and if you've done that in New York, it's a really bad
01:03time to do that. The Mets just had to fire Carlos Mendoza, who is, in my opinion, a very good
01:10baseball
01:10man and a very good man, more importantly, who I think will land on his feet as at least a
01:16bench
01:16coach someplace next year. You know what the Yankees remind me of? The Yankees, in our little
01:24way, are like Anthony Volpe, which is when they slump, they don't just lose three out of seven
01:31out of ten. They lose seven out of ten and look like they've never played baseball before.
01:37Like, that's my always, it's one of Volpe's problems is he doesn't, you know, go into a slump.
01:44He goes into a death spiral. And the Yankees, for about two weeks, but especially over these last
01:50five days or so, five, six days, starting with Fenway, they've played terribly in every phase
01:58of the game. Like, usually a good team avoids these kind of losing streaks because, oh, they're
02:04hitting badly, but they're getting good starting pitching in defense or, you know, they're not
02:08pitching well, but they hit their way out of some of this. And right now, the Yankees are doing so
02:13much wrong in every phase of the game. I think some of this has to do, especially with some of
02:19the defensive stuff, it's gotten very Metzian for about a couple of weeks here without McMahon and
02:25Grisham and playing people out of position or playing bad defenders. And I think some of that will
02:30clarify by the end of the week when they get Grisham and McMahon back, but depth was supposed
02:34to be one of their strengths and they've used the depth and the depth has killed them on one side
02:39of the ball or the other. It's a, you know, ultimately this is a terrible American league.
02:46There's not going to be a big penalty paid for this unless this is truly who they are,
02:50in which case they're going to have all kinds of other troubles. I would still assume they're the
02:55best team in the American league. They've fallen behind Tampa Bay, but like Tampa Bay hasn't had,
02:59Tampa Bay's had some of the best health in the sport. Like they haven't had any of their big
03:03guys go out. Maybe this will be the year that doesn't happen to them. But so I still think the
03:11Yankees are the kind of the class of the AL East and the class of the American league. But if
03:15you've
03:15watched them play baseball for the last week, it is really as poorly as especially a team you think
03:21is good could play. I was out there last night and that was failure at every phase of the sport.
03:28And that included beyond the stuff. Baseball IQ stuff was way off the chart. Terrible attention
03:36to detail was way off the chart. Terrible. And they're in a bad place right now. And it's really
03:43up to this group to like, don't let this be a vote be death spiral. Like it's like, it's fine.
03:49Like
03:49every team is going to go through the losing eight out of 12. It's just part of baseball. Players are
03:55going to go through slumps. It's part of the game, but this is beyond that. This is, this is being
04:02ugly at every phase of the sport and making you feel like within this Frankenstein's monster is
04:07something you don't want to see for a team that's trying to play for everything this year.
04:12Yeah. I think it's an interesting comparison with the Volpe thing, Joel. But you've hit the nail on the
04:16head when it comes to every facet of baseball. They're just not playing well right now. Pitching,
04:20starting pitching bullpen has actually been, but hitting has really been the thing. I think a lot
04:25of Yankees, they did a bad, the, what a bad team does with the bullpen. The bullpen has been very
04:29good, except for when they needed it to be good Sunday night. Exactly. Kind of avoid a four game
04:34sweep. Uh, uh, Cruz has been probably their most consistent reliever all year, uh, had, had a really
04:41bad hiccup on Sunday night. Uh, and, uh, it costs them a game, but like in a lot of ways,
04:47they didn't
04:47deserve to win that game. They, they hit just terribly, terribly. They didn't feel well again.
04:53Uh, but they were going to sneak one out like a good team does when they're in a bad spot.
04:59And
04:59they, you know, it was a missed, you know, like Cruz again has been really good. You know,
05:04if you were giving them a grade for the first half, probably be like a minus B plus of the
05:08worst.
05:09Uh, but he had a bad night when they really, really, uh, needed him badly. And they, they got,
05:14you know, like even if the Red Sox are in the midst of having a terrible season, uh, you know,
05:20for the Yankees and their fans, I'm sure getting swept at Fenway four games has a more bitter taste
05:25than if I told you they got swept four games in Detroit or four games in Texas or something like
05:30that. It's astonishing how bad they've been in fed at Fenway, uh, in the month of June. It's it's
05:36that they've won, I think a total of two games in the last like five or six years at that
05:40ballpark
05:41in the month of June. It just, it, that month, this month, this Joel, like this summer, June
05:45swoon, it just, I don't understand how it continues to happen every single year, but it's finds
05:50different ways and paths of happening. And to your point though, what's happening right now
05:54is something that the Yankees team has never done in their history with how bad and poorly
05:58they've hit with the low amount of hits that they've had. I think it's, you know, four hits
06:02or less in these certain amount of games. It's not, it's, it's alarming, right? But I think
06:07you're still looking at it from a bird's eye view of Ryan. It's a long season. They need
06:11to get players back. They're going to get some guys back this week. They need to get
06:15healthy. Uh, but at the same time, you know how this works, Joel, some guy comes back healthy.
06:19Another guy goes down with an injury. So I hope I was clear that when I was talking, I said
06:23this was terrible. This was an, again, there's a difference between losing nine out of 12 and
06:28losing it the way the Yankees are. So how alarming is it for you though? Like, like, like,
06:34when do you start actually like ringing the bell? Like Ryan, they're in serious trouble here as a
06:40team this season. Yeah. I'd need to see a little more of this and it would have to be a
06:43playoff
06:44system. That's not this playoff system where six get in, uh, like the American league has had
06:51trouble keeping four or five teams, even above 500 all year. Uh, you know, I think still of this
06:56as of this morning, a team under 500, we get into the playoffs and we're more than halfway through
07:00the season. It's no longer a small sample size. Uh, and for most, and so if we're doing big sample
07:05size for most of this first half, the Yankees have been the class of the American league. Uh,
07:10you know, if you really believe run differential is a real mark of a team, you know, the Yankees
07:15have just so much larger than anyone else in the sport, including the one, one of the, you know,
07:19a team they trail in the AL East right now in Tampa Bay. But you know, when they've played Tampa
07:24Bay head up, they have not played well. Uh, there's if this goes on a little longer, I get
07:32even more worried, but like the, if, if there's ways to have losing streaks with dignity, the
07:38Yankees are not doing it with dignity right now. This is, this is really sloppy. It's low
07:45baseball IQ. It is exposing every one of their holes to me. Uh, and, uh, the one thing I thought
07:55would always carry them is their rotation and their rotation is in a dip period right now.
08:01Is that because Schlittler's pitched a lot of innings or, you know, Schlittler's on the way to
08:05200 innings. He's never gotten close to that in his life. And, you know, like I thought like the last
08:10few starts, he hasn't had quite the finish of, you know, being able to finish off hitters that
08:15he had previously. Is it just like normal dead arm period, a little dead arm. He's still generally
08:20doing very well. Uh, you know, is Cole building towards something important? Uh, like, like he'll
08:27be at his best by September, which is kind of what you want. Uh, free to throwing a, um, simulated
08:33game
08:34today of a couple of innings as we're, you know, we're speaking. It's supposed to be later this
08:37afternoon. John Carl Stanton's supposed to hit in that game. So that that's somewhat positive
08:43injury news. Uh, you know, maybe both of them get back sometime in late July, uh, or sooner and
08:48maybe Stanton's case. Um, but, uh, you know, like Ryan Weathers had just an atrocious start. He left
08:55a lot of hittable pitches when he was ahead in the count yesterday, kind of felt all unacceptable,
09:00but he was hurt by his defense. Again, the defense is that the defense has been bad.
09:06And if one of your conceits is, Hey, Jose Caballero could play all over the place. Well,
09:12if he plays all over the place and he doesn't play well, then he doesn't, shouldn't play all
09:15over the place. So that, you know, that that's part of it. They've had in the last five days,
09:20they've had an error at third base by three different third basemen. So I think one of the
09:25things we've talked about a lot on the show that I've said is Ryan McMahon is fine hitting ninth for
09:30the Yankees. Uh, is because at no point are they going to have less than two lefties in their
09:36rotation? You know, it's weather's a road on now. Freed will come back. Does weather stay in or is
09:41it will? Why? I'm not sure how that's going to work. If they even lucky enough to get to full
09:45health,
09:46but, um, you need McMahon to have the goal, the glove there in order to defend against the grounders,
09:52the third, and you've seen it even in that Schlittler start.
09:55So can I tell you of all the things that I think are problematic about the Yankees and look, I,
09:59I,
10:00I hate to be redundant and we do the show every week, Ryan. And I, I do feel this is
10:05one where the
10:06world is going to catch up to me and I'm going to be right, which is we talk a lot
10:11about what they
10:12need. And the two things that have come up over and over are bullpen and catcher. Sure. Actually
10:17right-hand hitting catcher. And I'm here to tell you, they need to address those things, but I have been
10:22saying for a month now that their middle infield is not good. It is not a championship caliber middle
10:27infield. And I'm now going to stretch it aside from when McMahon plays third base. I think they
10:32have an infield problem. Ben Rice has gotten worse, not better at first base, which is an issue. So
10:38maybe you'd say Goldschmidt plays, but if Stanton comes back, who's DHing, what are you doing? So like,
10:44and I always think first base is a more important position than just throw it away. Uh, you know,
10:50that person handles the ball a lot and Ben Rice has to be better than he is. I think that
10:56second
10:56base, I think Jazz Chisholm attention to detail is terrible. Uh, I, you know, on the play, he got
11:03hurt yesterday. Um, can I go through the play? Yeah, absolutely. I'm interested. Cause I, I,
11:10from my point of view, that's Dominguez's ball. He says he called it. I know you said you wrote in
11:15your piece on sports, both sports boss, that Jazz didn't hear it, but I'm interested.
11:20I didn't write that Jazz didn't hear it. I wrote that Dominguez said he called it.
11:24Dominguez said he called it. But I was writing about something else. So I didn't have time to
11:28talk about what I think is important because I think the prism, the Yankees always have to look
11:34through. Isn't about being a good team. It's about, can you get a parade? Can you get a parade?
11:40Like the Yankees aren't in this to get in the playoffs. They're in this to get the, get a
11:45parade. And if 2024 world series didn't teach them enough about dotting the I's, crossing the T's and
11:52making sure that they're buttoned up, then what is? So it's, I'm going to try to do this from the
11:58top of my head because I was at the game last night. I think I remember it. If you have
12:01the
12:01details in front of you, if you think I got any of them wrong, let me know. It's the fourth
12:05inning.
12:05They're down seven, nothing. It's first and third and it's one out and they're playing the infield
12:10in. So like you can say it's seven, nothing. What are you trying to do? The Yankees are saying they
12:15don't want the eighth run to score. The manager has said, we're playing the infield there.
12:21A ball goes up to the outfield and it is pretty high up. So to me, if you're protecting against
12:29a
12:29runner scoring from third base, the first thing the second baseman needs to do is sprint very hard
12:36to the outfield, get behind the ball and catch the ball coming back in towards the infield because
12:44it's the second out of the infield and it is a tag up situation. So if you're the retreating second
12:50baseman until you hear you're called off, do not try to side saddle the ball and make it look
12:57cool. I get it. It looks cool. If you drift into it and side satellite and catch it, but your
13:03body
13:04will be going to the outfield. And if you're a smart baseball player, you know, you're dealing with a
13:11inexperienced right fielder in Dominguez and be a right fielder who lacks court awareness, field
13:18awareness at the highest level. So what is you as the veteran have to sprint out there, get your back
13:27to Dominguez. And until you hear something, you're fielding the ball facing the infield, not drifting to
13:35the outfield cause it looks good. And Dominguez, uh, uh, Chisholm did and did it and I'll throw in
13:46and take it for what you want. This came a day after he's ejected when even he said,
13:54I can't be ejected whether I was right or wrong. It comes a few days after the lollipop situation,
14:01which again, you see what you want. How about if he was sucking on a lollipop when he slammed into
14:07like what's the big deal with him? Well, somebody probably would have had to give him the Heimlich
14:12maneuver or CPR. If he had one in his mouth, when he slammed into Dominguez, like just for like what
14:19belongs on a baseball field while action is going on and what does it. So I just feel there's,
14:29you know, like, like, uh, there's a lot of these videos online, especially with basketball players.
14:36Well, they say this guy was a problem. And like one of the guys is remembered, uh, uh, white
14:42chocolate, Jason Williams. Yeah. Like he was a problem. And I'm like, right. If you, you could
14:47get the right 10 minute reel of him going between the legs and doing things, but was he a winning
14:51player? Is Trey young a winning player is Russell Westbrook a winning like, like, like jazz Chisholm's
15:0110 minute reel. If you want to get it to just the reel is spectacular. He could go 30, 30
15:08hits
15:09spectacular. But when it's about buttoned up, we're going to not give away anything in October
15:16because anything you'd give away in October could eliminate you. Is that good enough? Is
15:21Jose Caballero good enough to do that? Is Anthony Volpe good enough to do that? I think the Yankees
15:31have a middle infield situation. That's about playing the biggest games of the year. Volpe
15:38had a ball yesterday and had a bounce to throw to first base. I'm like, why not just give
15:44it to a carrier pigeon at this point and see if they could get like, like, it is not a
15:48shortstop's arm. His velocity has gone down to the lowest of his career this year.
15:52And so to me, they, between either baseball IQ or style over substance or shortness of stuff.
16:01I don't like for on a, forget about April to September, the Yankees have so much talent and
16:08all three of those players have talent that they'll help you win a certain amount of games.
16:13Like, but if it's about more than that, like you could, here's what I believe about infield
16:20play. If I could have Bobby with a shortstop and Bryce to rang at second base. Yeah. Where do I
16:26sign
16:26up for it? Because not only do I get every play, but I get 10 to 15% more. That's
16:30how special those
16:31two players are. But you could tell me and every analytic guy in the world told me that Derek Jeter
16:38lacked range. I'm here to tell you, I saw it with my eyes. Derek Jeter lacked range,
16:43but when the ball was hit to Derek Jeter, it was an out. When the ball was hit to Derek
16:50Jeter and
16:50there, and a double play needed to be made, two outs were created when it was a routine double play.
16:57When a ball was hit to Derek Jeter in the ninth inning at Fenway Park in a three, two Yankee
17:03lead,
17:04by the way, you could say whatever you want. If you ask every Yankee, who do you
17:08hope the ball is hit to in that situation with his lack of range? They hoped it was hit to
17:14Jeter
17:14because to me, I'll start with an infield of that. All the outs that should be made are made
17:22and all the double plays that should be made that are run savers and pitch savers and pitcher savers
17:30of how many relievers do I have to get to a game? Those have to be made at as close
17:35to a hundred percent
17:36as possible. And aside from, and I thought even McMahon didn't play great early in the season,
17:40it got better as it went along. So I'm going to take McMahon off the chessboard and say,
17:44I think he's a good third baseman, but first, second and short, the Yankees are going to play
17:50big games. And if Goldschmidt's not at first and McMahon's not at third, I think the Yankees have an
17:57infield problem. The ball is going to get hit. It's going to be on the ground. And I am not
18:04asking for
18:06more than Bobby Witt and Bryce Terang give you. They must make outs on the balls that are outs.
18:14And they are not doing that at a high enough level in their infield. Now, and their outfield has been
18:22a mess. Again, like Grisham is a much kind of beat up player, but their outfield is in order more
18:31when
18:31he's playing center and Bellinger's in left and obviously judges in right. I think their outfield
18:36defense will ultimately, if they could get to health, be fine. Like I see it. To me, the only
18:43way the Yankee infield internally gets better is if George Lombard Jr., his dad is in town as the bench
18:51coach of the Tigers, who is in Tampa and is throwing and is getting closer to coming back from his
18:57sprained
18:57fingers. If he is what everyone, not just inside the organization tells me, but outside the organization
19:06tells me, which is a dynamic shortstop, that is something like a young defensively. Again, be
19:13careful here, aggregators. Defensively is something akin to Carlos Correa young, which is the ball.
19:21Here's the thing is, there's never been a second where Anthony Volpe looks like a major league
19:25shortstop. Never a second. He, he's playing way too fast and surrounding the ball to try to cover
19:31up for his arm. To me, I think he has a chance to be a, a, an above average player.
19:37If he played
19:38second base and probably outside New York, where he's pressing too much to try to do this. There's
19:43no reason to me that he can't be better than say Caleb Durbin, who has already been traded twice for
19:51really good players. Yeah. Like Anthony Volpe probably like, forget about that. He was a
19:55first round draft choice or the Yankees have stuck with him. There is a good major league player in
19:59Anthony Volpe. Just not a shortstop right now, Joel. And I'm not sure in New York. Yeah. Well,
20:04like I guess you've seen this. So, so, so to me, yes, I, we talked about it. The double plays.
20:10I brought it up. I wrote about it last week and I, we talked about it on the show last
20:14week.
20:15Ryan, we are not talking about the spectacular double play. Right. Right. Right. It's what a
20:20double play must be made. That's made by the high percentage of teams. I'll tell you one,
20:27like I watched the Phillies over the weekend against the Mets. The Phillies are going to have
20:32a hard time winning in the playoffs to me also. And they've got very good starting pitchers and a
20:36couple of star players in their lineup. They, if the ball isn't hit to Bryson stock,
20:41they have a defensive problem in Philadelphia. Like I watched all the games and I was like,
20:45wow, a lot of balls land against the Phillies. Now the Mets weren't really good enough to take
20:49advantage of it enough, but like good teams are going to take advantage of it. And when I watched
20:55the Yankee infield, this is, can't be what they did in 2024 where they're like, la, la, la, la, la,
21:02I don't see it. You're, you're complaining too much. And then it only costs them a world series.
21:08They have multiple positions first, second and short. I'm not exactly sure what they do about
21:14first. Cause you don't rice is struggling right now at a very high level, but I think Ben rice
21:19is a very good major league hitter. Who's back to one in the lineup. And maybe this is all solved
21:24because Stanton never stays healthy. Who knows? And you know, you don't have, who knows if Stan
21:29comes back to what he was before. And also like, I would assume the best of Paul Goldschmidt has
21:34already happened and that like, he's never like, like, like by the way, value is when you do things
21:40like the other day at his press conference on the firing of, um, Carlos Mendoza, David Stern says
21:47at the end of the year, I expect Bo Bichette to have the numbers that you expect them to have.
21:52And I'm like, great. But value is when you do it. Carlos Mendoza might still have a job.
21:58If Bichette hit like Bo Bichette in the first half, congratulations, if you do it in the second
22:03half or an interim manager, who's not coming back. So that Paul Goldschmidt, while judge and
22:09Stanton have been out has been, it's why I think the most valuable player, you have to include value.
22:15You have to, you can't just tell me here's this war. And I'm like, right. Like, like,
22:19I bet your war really loved Camilo Duval yesterday. He struck out the side in a seven nothing game
22:26that his team was losing. How does he do when it's three to three? Right. Like, it's incredible
22:32what Goldschmidt and he won that game against school last week with the two home runs. And so, so, but
22:38if I were just playing the, the, the, the logic game for a guy who's 37, 38, who we watched
22:44kind of
22:45wilt last year with some overuse, the best you've seen from Paul Goldschmidt has likely happened.
22:51So they, they kind of need judge and Stanton to come back. I don't think any of that is tomorrow,
22:57especially for judge, right? Like it's not like judge is close to coming back and good luck getting
23:03any information out of the Yankees aside from them telling you who'll be back. I think they're
23:08more likely to sell government secrets at Yankee stadium than tell you what's going on with Aaron
23:13judge and his injury aside from they expect them back. But the stand thing is interesting,
23:17right? Like if he comes back, how do you balance the Schmidt? I mean, sorry, the, the Goldschmidt,
23:23Ben Rice and Stanton trio with first base and DH, because judge isn't going to be back. How do they
23:29balance that, that rotation? So as, so as long as the general perception of the sport that I have also
23:36is right, which is that Ben Rice is a very good hitter going through a slump. I think Ben Rice
23:41plays
23:41nine out of 10 games. Yeah. And then you work around the other stuff. Like, I think that the
23:46other two, the idea of this season was Goldschmidt was protection in a lot of different areas and good
23:53for them for signing him for that protection and for him coming back because they, like you and I
23:57would be doing a different show without him. Like he is the season. He's been carrying with them with
24:02Rice and both. We'll get to Bellinger a little bit, but both of those guys are struggling right now.
24:07Yes. So, so to me, like his value has been incredible Goldschmidt. And so if he keeps on
24:14keeping on, you'll find Ryan, I've learned something in 40 years of doing this. It's hard
24:20to hit in major league baseball. And if you hit, they find a way to play. Right. Right. Like Mark
24:26Vientos gives you zero doing almost everything else, but the year he hit, he played every day,
24:32off in a third base where he wasn't good. And so when he doesn't hit and he becomes like close
24:38to a zero tool player, that's harder to put on the field. Well, they're keeping Austin Wells on
24:43the field, even though he's not hitting either. So, right. But, but that's a catcher who does the
24:47two things at a very high level that they put great value in. I've seen a pass ball. I've seen
24:52a catcher's interference now in the last five games. But, but, but we, Ryan, I, Wells is a
25:00problem. Yeah. Big problem. But if you, you could cherry pick some stuff on defense. I think if you
25:07sat down with their pitching people and they're catching people, they'd say, okay, there's a cat.
25:12The catcher's interference is about Yankee philosophy, which is get up as close to the
25:16hitter as possible. He obviously could avoid it if he wants. He's doing what the Yankees.
25:20I don't even think he throws people out. Well, Joel, but the Yankees don't put value
25:24in it. The Yankees put the highest again, Ryan, it's not about what you and I want. I know. I
25:28know. Like the people who make these decisions put the highest value in one framing, which
25:34he's top five in the sport at every year. And it is again, and two game calling, which
25:40they put great value in also. And so like on a scale of one to 10, if 10's the best,
25:45I
25:45think the Yankees would give them high eights or low nines. And the two things they care
25:49about the most, by the way, he got pinch hit for late in the game yesterday. I think
25:54he's losing his right to get all of his at bats and, and the Yankees desperately need
25:58to find a catcher to at least be competent with him. If not usurp some of his playing
26:04time. I don't, I think the lack of offense from Wells is a mystery to me a little bit
26:11because I thought he was going to be a good hitter, right? He had really, he really had
26:17good strike zone judgment. I don't know what's happened to the pole ball in the air, especially
26:23at home, because I go back to the Ryan McMahon thing. Ryan McMahon is tolerable if he projects
26:31to 20 homers and the defense, and then you live with the 90 OPS plus or the 85 OPS plus
26:39because not everybody could be good at everything, right? Like Aaron judges. That's why you get
26:43360 million, you know, that kind of, so, so Bobby Witt is, that's why he's got a contract
26:48for 15 years. So, um, uh, if Wells was, if Wells had very similar numbers, but was on the
26:56way to 20 homers, it would be like, well, he's changing some games by popping a homer now
27:01and then, but he's giving nothing offensively. He's clearly overmatched. It's clearly in his
27:07head. I don't know what's going on. I don't know if it's fixable or not. I do know that
27:12they've got to win a championship this year. That's what they're, that's why I brought up
27:16all the stuff about the infield. If this was just like, Hey, the win 94 games again, win
27:21the AL East, win a round or two, maybe whatever, but like, you've got to put yourself in the
27:27best position possible to get a parade. And that's probably with Wells getting a lot
27:34less catching time. And I think probably the Yankees know that. And yet they've got
27:40to continue to work with him because he should be in his prime right now. He's seen a lot
27:46of major league pitching and he should be in his prime. And I'm not like Ryan, one of
27:52the blessings I get is I ask other teams about people and other teams are stumped because they
27:57thought Wells would be an offensive player. You know, I shared the anecdote that I talked
28:02to Albert Pujols recently, the ER and he, again, with no vested interest in the Yankees
28:09whatsoever said, wow, I really was impressed with what a good hitter Austin Wells was.
28:14That was March. That was March. It's all it's Albert Pujols. It's March. So like, I'm not
28:20completely comfortable with what's happened with Wells, but you can't play the game. You imagine
28:26you have to play the game that's in front of you and the game that's in front of you is
28:30he is an
28:31automatic rally killing out right now. And that's revoked his right to get all the at bats in a close
28:39game. And it's going to revoke a lot more than that in a year where the Yankees have to win
28:43a
28:44championship. Feels unfortunate to Ali Sanchez. You know, he went on paternity leave and he also got hit
28:48like he was starting to actually give them some kind of offensive contributions from the right side of
28:53the plate as well. I want to go back to the middle infield part because the jazz thing I think
28:57is
28:57interesting. I've talked to you about this. I wonder at the deadline, would they weigh that move
29:03because you talked about him last year, even that he was going into a contract year. And if you don't
29:09see the value in retaining him, trade him now in the off season, because there's no point in keeping
29:13him this year. I think a lot of this is weighing on the season that he was hoping to have
29:18this year.
29:19And clearly it's not turning out to be what it is that the other part of that that I have
29:23for you, Joel, is the Yankees were good defensively, I would argue with Jose Caballero
29:28short. I understand you deal with the errors that he would have, but the fact that he's playing all
29:33over the place and I think it might be getting to him a little bit of I'm playing another position
29:37today and I have to defensively be really good and he's not being good. Do they solve this
29:42internally by putting him at shortstop every day? And what do you like? How does this work?
29:47I heard the Lombard part, but this guy's banged up right now at AAA and I don't know if they're
29:53going to pull that. And by the way, we have no proof of purchase. Lombard might not be able
29:57to handle this. He's young, whatever. But if you start looking around the sport for who they could
30:03trade for, it's not appealing right now. So they probably have to do this internally. If you said
30:11to me today, we've got to play games with Jose Caballero or Anthony Volpe at shortstop, I'd play
30:17him with Jose Caballero. But Caballero goes back to the problem I talked about before, which is
30:22I need him to do the routine. And I think that in that stylish way, we lose the routine. We
30:32lose the
30:32routine. Like there's a, he does it on the bases also. Like there's a, for both him and Jazz, there
30:39is a spectacular, like, and you put together the sizzle reel on either guy. They could look like two
30:44of the better players in baseball, especially Jazz, who has such great talent. But baseball is such a
30:51every day. The routine has to be made day after day after day. And by the way, I just believe
30:58this
30:58in every sport. Like, like the spectacular gets you into top 10 plays on SportsCenter. And I'm always
31:06blown away when I watch, if I watch that, how many of them came in a loss and ESPN is
31:11showing them
31:12anyway, like they're fucking valuable. Hey, when the team was down 101.89, look at this dunk where he
31:18posterized the guy. Yeah. He posterized the guy. The guy was trying to block a shot. Should he just
31:23walked out of the way? Is that what the modern world has come to? A guy shouldn't try to block
31:27a shot because it could be freaking embarrassing on SportsCenter or on a poster or something. What
31:32freaking world we're living in. You've got to do, to me, if you told me I could have a play,
31:37like every
31:38player do the spectacular or every player do the routine, I would always take the routine
31:44because you've got to get 27 outs every day. But they would turn in double plays before the
31:49Caballero injury. Better. Certainly at a better level. At a better level. At a better level. And
31:53that's why I said, if you told me I could only do one or the other, I would put Caballero
31:59at short.
32:00I would send Volpe to the minor leagues when the Yankees are closer to hold if they ever get there.
32:07And I don't think Volpe wanted to play other positions at AAA when given that choice.
32:13And I would give him a very simple choice because at some point, either I run the asylum or you
32:19run
32:19the asylum. And until the day I'm fired, I run the asylum. I'd say, all right, you could sit on
32:26the
32:26bench or you could play second base today. Your call. Because I actually, so like it was like a little
32:34bit, when the Yankees traded for Jazz, they asked Gleyber Torres to play third base. I think it was a
32:42mistake by Gleyber not to play other positions. Like Gleyber wants, Gleyber like Jazz is going to go
32:49back into free agency this year. Like the multiple positions would help him. Multiple positions would
32:55now help Volpe. Again, like if we're playing, forget about the first round draft choice.
33:01Like, is there an upside to Volpe where he might play much better? Maybe 10%? One out of 10
33:07that
33:07is in there? Two out of 10? At this point, can you be the best possible version of Caleb Durbin,
33:15which was like last year for Milwaukee, Caleb Durbin was an incredibly valuable player for a
33:21division title winner who had the most wins in the major leagues. Can you be a good supplementary
33:27player who defends at a couple of positions, who runs the base as well, some home runs, some batting
33:35average, some on-base percentage? Like, do I think that's in there for Anthony Volpe where I'm talking
33:41about can he be a two and a half war player on a regular basis, a three war player when
33:46you start
33:47putting all those disparate parts together? Yeah. But this is not a championship winning player
33:54right now. At shortstop, certainly not. No. And so to me, I'll live it for the short term.
34:01And by the way, I'll put Cavalier or Troy. You know what I'm going to do at AAA? I'm going
34:07to have
34:07a double play combination of Lombard at shortstop and Volpe at second base. And I'm going to take a
34:12look at that bad boy for a couple of weeks and say, what does that look like? Because that might
34:18say
34:19something about the near future. Right. As well. Like, and again, you're not playing, you're not
34:24playing that for 2027 and 28. Who knows if we'll even play baseball in 2027. Exactly. Let's just
34:30worry about 2026. But, but Ryan, to me, the Yankees did see no evil, hear no evil in 24 about
34:39the
34:39stuff they weren't good at. And they cannot do that here. That's what I'm worried about.
34:44By the way, and by the way, like, like, I am saying this, and I know how polarizing this person
34:51is. I really like Aaron Boone as a person. And I also, regardless of what the public perception is,
35:00I think he is a fine manager, a fine baseball man. He has to stand up to some of this
35:07with both his
35:08players and his front office, because I think he probably knows the difference between accepting
35:14and not. And oftentimes what the average fan doesn't understand is he's out front protecting
35:20players. He's out front protecting management. That's part of the, like, if you said to a modern
35:28baseball operations department now, rank in order what a manager does, they would probably rank,
35:35control the temperament of a clubhouse at number one and run a bullpen at number two.
35:41That's probably the things they would. And I actually think Boone is good at it. But part of
35:46Boone's good at it is, at least publicly, he never reads the riot act to players. And I think at
35:55some
35:56point, a manager needs to be able to say to a player, I got your back today. But this is
36:06the last
36:07time. But this is the last time because you're embarrassing me. You're embarrassing me when
36:12you're when you're I'm responsible for the for detail. And when you mess with detail, I have to
36:19do it. I'll give you an example that I thought about. They're the Tigers are playing the Yankees
36:27right now. If I remember well, Frambois Valdez had a lot of problems pre joining the Tigers. I'm sure
36:35and one of the reasons he struggled in like, you know, when jazz struggles in the free agent market,
36:40perhaps like, like, like, everyone knows what you're talking about, the mix up with the catcher,
36:44like, like, like, at some point, a lot of teams are going to say Frambois Valdez is incredibly
36:49talented. He's a top 20 starting pitcher. But do I want it? Do I want it? Well, the Tigers brought
36:55him in. And I'm sure the Tigers said to him, hey, one of the reasons you lingered in the market
36:59was because of stuff like this. And we will take care of you. Now we will say we get you
37:06we spell
37:06passion and sometimes in the throats, but you're probably on a zero tolerance thing. Like whatever.
37:12Do you remember him hitting Trevor story on purpose earlier in this year? Do you remember
37:16what the manager of the team said? No, what did he say? I don't remember.
37:20He said something about sometimes looks aren't great. And then again, without this in front of me,
37:25because I'm bringing it up. No, yeah. Out of whatever. He said something like, sometimes you
37:30go out and you don't want to. In other words, like you go on the field when it's a benches
37:34clearing
37:34brawl, because you've got to, but you don't want to. And he said, sometimes you go out on the field
37:39and you don't want to. He was saying to his pitcher, we went out there, but we are out there
37:45because of
37:46you. And he's also signaling to the other team and the industry and the fans. That was unacceptable.
37:52And I think it was interesting. It wasn't until the end with Mendoza, where Mendoza did it to
37:59Senga, where he said, that's not going to be acceptable around here. It was like the last day of
38:04work, really, though. Yeah. Like it was right near the end. I do think this is year nine for Aaron
38:10Boone.
38:11There's not going to be a hell of a lot more shots at this, I would think, if they don't
38:15cash in a
38:16championship soon. Especially in an incredible, Eric, American League, like you said, is so bad.
38:20Like 24, the American League is wide open to them about getting there. And I do think that
38:29there are some things it feels like that he has not gotten the full attention of some players.
38:36And I think some of this needs to be cleaned up internally by the judges and the Stantons,
38:42who I think are both strong leaders. I think on this show, before I mentioned how much I've come to
38:48admire what a leader Stanton is, and how sharp he is. And I think that some of the like, like
38:55the
38:55lollipop stuff, again, we can act like it's innocent. And in the big wide scope of the universe,
39:00of course, who cares? But there's good looks, and there's bad looks. There's putting your manager
39:06unforced error, putting your manager in an impossible spot, and not doing it. I think I
39:12compared him to David Wells. David Wells used to do this to Joe Torrey, where it was like,
39:17Joe Torrey's trying to defend what? Why are we doing this? This is an unforced error. It's an
39:22unforced error. Why? There's going to be so much stuff during the year that you really have to deal
39:27with. And there's unforced errors. And to me, the Yankee leadership fabric, which I think is generally
39:37good. Some of this has to be dealt with beyond Boone, but some of it has to be dealt with
39:42Boone.
39:43And I hope I'm saying, sometimes you have to air some grievances publicly. And I hope I'm not doing
39:51that just because it would be good for our business. But because I think that one of the
39:56things Boone is good at is taking a deep breath and saying, that would be good for Ryan Sampson and
40:00Joel Sherman, but it wouldn't be really good for the Yankees. And I think it's one of the things that
40:04does make him a good modern manager that he doesn't air the dirty laundry publicly. But at
40:09some point, if the dirty laundry is sticking to you, the manager, I think you've got to deal with
40:15some stuff. And I think there's some repeat offenders here on some issues that need to be
40:21cleaned up that fall very much into you didn't boot a ground ball, which is an error. You did some
40:28stuff that's an unforced. Challenge the pitch right down the middle. Yes. Like you got ejected at the end of
40:33the game in the Red Sox that we're trying to win, like in this middle of a losing streak. Those
40:37are
40:37things that are repeat occurrences with Jazz Chisholm this year. Yes. And again, like, I think I went
40:42through this play. Like, there's a right way to play that ball. And there's that. And you end up by
40:48the way, maybe with a concussion because of that. And that said, like, I hope he's not that hurt. You
40:54know, nobody actually wants to see a player get hurt. But he put himself in some harm's way by
41:00technically as a veteran player with a right fielder, you know, is inexperienced and really
41:06crap at field awareness. You've got to be the adult in the room, not the watch me side saddle this
41:13ball
41:14to me. It's a, and I think, I think like the Dodgers have won a couple of world series for
41:20a lot of
41:20reasons, big payroll, lots of talent. They are really good at detail. They are really good at it. If you
41:27watch their games and like, you know, I hear there's a real ethos on their bench of, let's not
41:33be staring at tablets. Let's be up on the top step. Let's be around people like Freddie Freeman
41:38and Mookie Betts who are talking the game as it's going on and picking up stuff on the field. And
41:42like, that's an important ethos to me, like, like about seriousness of purpose. And there's a handful
41:48of teams that have a chance to win a championship this year. I think the Yankees are one of those
41:52teams
41:52that, you know, in spite of how horribly on every level they've played for, for 10 days or so,
41:59uh, there's still a, a, a, a talent formation there, especially if they could get their rotation
42:04whole and going there, one of the teams that can win and to not win again, because of not covering
42:14first base and side saddling a relay throw, which allows an extra base and all the stuff that came up
42:20in the 2024 world series. That was, you know, sometimes bad weather blows into town and horrible
42:27things happen, but sometimes you see the tornado 50 miles away and you've got to evacuate. And if
42:33you don't and something horrible happens, it's horrible, but it's also your fault. Right. And
42:38some of this 50 miles out of town tornado stuff with the Yankees right now, that just needs to be
42:44cleaned up because you cannot go through another cycle where you're sitting, have regret on stuff.
42:52You could see 50 miles out of town. Yeah. And especially like you said, with all that they're
42:57playing for this year, the fact that they don't know if next season is going to happen, you gotta
43:02be all in for this. Uh, I, I do want to go to real or unreal to finish up this
43:06episode, Cody Bellinger,
43:07Joel, I'm sure you've heard about the road in a way splits with him. Uh, the fact that on the
43:12road,
43:13Cody is batting one 82 with a five 64 OPS. Uh, this is really alarming Joel. And I, and I,
43:20I know that there's always the ebbs and flows like you talk about. And sometimes these stats
43:24will even themselves out, but Cody swing obviously plays really great to Yankee stadium. His numbers
43:30at home are incredible, but are you concerned about the player that he is offensively on the road?
43:38Uh, I mean, I think he's in a slump right now. Uh, I think he's better in
43:42Yankee stadium. Uh, it obviously fits him, including that in one of the biggest left fields,
43:48like when he plays at home last night's era, not withstanding, uh, he's a difference making
43:56defender in a tough field. Uh, I just think he's a good baseball player. I think he's a good baseball
44:02player in New York. I think he's a good baseball player in Boston. I think he's a good baseball
44:05player in Kansas city and Texas and Houston and Anaheim. Uh, does it play better at Yankee
44:11stadium? Yeah. I'm aware of the numbers. Uh, I would say if a big at bat is coming for the
44:18Yankees
44:19in any ballpark in the country, that's not Yankee stadium. And you and I were sitting and
44:23you could designate, who do you want to take the at bat? How many guys would you go through
44:29before you picked Bellinger? Judge rice, maybe, maybe two or three, right? So like with, even with
44:40what you're saying, because you believe that Bellinger will have a good at bat can hit tough
44:45pitching, doesn't strike out a lot, has good, good approach that you would take it. It I'm not
44:53ignoring the numbers. They're there. He's a better player in 50% of the games, but I just think he's
45:01a good baseball player. Uh, I don't think it's like he's psyched out or any, like, I think, I think
45:06it's
45:07one of the things that makes him good is he's played in the three biggest markets and played well in
45:11all
45:11of those markets. So it's like, I don't think, Oh, he's psyched out by not playing in Yankees.
45:18I still would want, it's like, you know, you could, I don't know who to pick as the basketball
45:25player. It's like, he shoots better at home. Right. Right. But you got to make a three pointer
45:29on the road. You'd probably still pick him. Right. Like, because you like that the player isn't
45:33scared. You like the player's approach where he is spiritually, where he is mentally like, okay.
45:39Like the numbers are the numbers. Some of them, um, go down the road with you, Ryan. Like we cannot
45:45ignore Austin Wells. No, it's, it's not a good approach right now. The ball is not being hit
45:52hard at all. Uh, there's nothing fly ball to the pull side, which had made him have value
45:58offensively. Like there's nothing. I can't give you a good sentence on Austin Wells offense.
46:04None. Like on that list of who do you want up and in at bat. He's last. Let's start working
46:11backward. I'd rather have a Volpe. I'd rather have a Caballero. I'd rather have a Rosario.
46:17I'd rather have a Max Schumann. I'd rather have like, I'd rather have up Ali Sanchez. I'd
46:22rather like everybody who's not him. Right. That's not how I feel about Bellinger, wherever
46:28the, the, the places I just think. Sure. I just, there, there is the narrative that is
46:33being built around him just this year. And there's no doubt that he's better. Like the
46:37way he hits the ball, which is often on a line, it will go out at Yankee state. Won't
46:43go out in every place. But, uh, I just, I think he's a good baseball player. Uh, and
46:49I'm very comfortable taking him, taking a huge at bat, whatever the ballpark is.
46:55Fair enough. Joel Sherman. We appreciate you hopping on here as always, giving us your
46:58analysis, uh, follow Joel for all of his Yankees coverage. Uh, I know you got some big
47:02discussions coming up with certain people. I'm looking forward to those, but as always,
47:05man, we're looking forward to talking to you next week. Thanks, Joel. There's no
47:09bigger person that I'm going to talk to all week than Ryan Samson and my friend.
47:12That is not true, but I appreciate the kind words. Thank you, Joel. All right. Peace.
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