- 2 weeks ago
Zohran Mamdani is New York City's youngest and most unlikely mayor in a generation: an outspoken Democratic Socialist who wants to remake the city into an example of what America writ large could be. But his ambitious plans -- and combative rhetoric -- have put him at odds with both the far right and more conservative members of his own party. But inside the bounds of New York's congressional and state legislative districts, Mamdani's influence has never been stronger. Rolling Stone sat down with Mamdani just days after a climactic primary election cycle in which his political allies won big across the city, to recap his first six months in office, find out where he plans to go from here, and learn what the city's biggest soccer fan thinks of the World Cup, the NBA finals, and Taylor Swift's wedding.
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00:00The more you're in politics, the more you're told this is just simply how it is.
00:05And to me, I just never think that's a good enough answer.
00:18Mayor Mamdani, thank you so much for being here today.
00:21Welcome to the Rolling Stone interview.
00:23Thank you so much for having me.
00:24It's been a full year since you won the primary, and now you've been in office for about six months.
00:31So we've got a lot to talk about today.
00:34First, I want to address the elephant in the room, though.
00:37Taylor Swift's wedding.
00:39How long did you know that she was planning a big event in the city?
00:43I think we had some indication that there would be a permit application coming in,
00:48but it wasn't until right before the wedding that that permit would actually submit it.
00:52Okay, so she was last minute.
00:54I think in terms of what the city had to respond to, that application came in just before the wedding.
01:00But I think our responsibility is also to plan for any eventuality and to make sure that we're ready to
01:05respond to it.
01:06You're coming off of really this huge primary election day.
01:11It seemed like the news cycle leading up to this was really that you were kind of sticking your neck
01:18out politically for the first time early on into your term in office.
01:22And, you know, it was a risk backing the candidates that you backed and kind of taking that kind of
01:27swing, committing that political capital.
01:31And you came away with a clean suite, right?
01:34So I guess just take me into Tuesday night.
01:36Like, what was that night like for you?
01:38How did it compare to that night a year ago now when you won your own primary?
01:44I think it was an incredible evening.
01:47And it was one where we didn't just see every one of the three congressional candidates that we endorsed win.
01:52We also saw the same for all five of the state legislative candidates as well.
01:56And to see what it meant to so many different parts of our city, to travel from Brad's event to
02:03Claire's event, Dalia Lisa's event, to see that no matter what neighborhood or borough you called home, New Yorkers were
02:09hungry for change and for a party that would not only stand up to federal policy and the cruelty that
02:17we're seeing come out of Washington, but also stand for working people.
02:20It was incredible. And as you said, it was nearly a day to a year since the primary victory in
02:26the mayoral election.
02:27Did you have any moments on that Tuesday night of sort of like deja vu? Did it feel like you
02:31were going through it again on behalf of other people?
02:33There's a little bit of being able to relive that because so many of the people who were at the
02:40heart of our campaign poured themselves in to these congressional races and these state legislative races.
02:45And I think it speaks to the fact that for so many of us, it was never about one office.
02:50It was about one movement for working people. And you find that in the races that are being run right
02:57now and the ones that are still to come and to be able to see what it means to so
03:01many.
03:01I mean, Dalia Lisa, for example, she was a field lead on our campaign.
03:06Yeah. And as I was walking through her district, we met one of her field leads who told me that
03:11they were a canvasser trained by Dalia Lisa more than a year ago.
03:15And that is what we are looking to build. It is a movement that wherever it finds a fight for
03:21working people, it is there on the front lines.
03:24Did you talk to her after her win?
03:27Yes.
03:28What did you say to her?
03:29Congratulations.
03:29Congratulations. It was incredible what she and her campaign built and everything that they won, they earned it.
03:37And they built it over many, many months amidst an immense amount of skepticism.
03:42And, you know, I think it was the day before her election or maybe two days, we were walking through
03:47her district, the two of us together.
03:49And people were just jumping out of bodegas, popping out of their cars.
03:53And some of them were just reciting her platform back to her.
03:56There was this young West African man who jumped out of his car and he looked at her and he
04:00was like, you're at my mosque.
04:02And you said you're going to do this, this, and this.
04:04And it was just a beautiful example of her focus and also the fact that she built something real, something
04:11that will endure.
04:12There's another parallel with Darylisa as well in that leading up to the race, to your primary, you know, you
04:21were both treated in a similar way by the media, like sort of made into this by the right and
04:28center into kind of this boogeyman of what scary socialism is going to do.
04:34What did you say to her about handling that?
04:36And what did you say to her about dealing with that kind of attention now that she, assuming, is running
04:44in a general election but hopefully will be in office?
04:47I told her first that this only happens when there's a chance that you win.
04:53And this is a reflection of the desperation that some are feeling in the face of what would be a
05:02new chapter in our city's politics and that for the vast majority of those who will be voting and who
05:09live in that district, this is not what they are concerned about.
05:13The people of New York 13 want to know that they have a congressional representative that is willing to fight
05:19for them in the face of living in the most expensive city in the United States of America.
05:22It's one of the poorest congressional districts across the country.
05:25And so much of what we saw, the fear-mongering, the blatant racism, it was an attempt to distract from
05:34the fact that Dario Elisa would deliver on exactly that vision for those same working people.
05:39The backbone of your movement, like you said, has been sort of the transition from field leads and activists to
05:46actually running for something.
05:49What advice do you give Dario Elisa and what advice do you give people like her when they're thinking about
05:57making that transition?
05:59Well, I think at this point, Dario Elisa doesn't need much advice from me.
06:02And what I would say is that to run for something, it's not just elected office.
06:07This is not just a movement where people find worth in these kinds of positions.
06:12It's one which is looking to make politics something that we do, not something that just happens to working people.
06:17And so for some New Yorkers, that will be running to lead their tenant organizations.
06:21For others, that will be becoming a part of a co-op.
06:24For others, it will mean running for office.
06:26And I think at the heart of it has to be, why are you doing this?
06:30And if the answer is for working people, then you will find that there are far more people who are
06:34ready to stand alongside you in that fight.
06:37And we saw that in these races for Congress.
06:39We saw that in these races for state legislative seats.
06:42And I think we're going to continue to see that even beyond the five boroughs of New York City.
06:46Because frankly, the issue of income inequality, the absence of affordability in people's lives, it's not unique to New York
06:53City.
06:53It is something that Americans are feeling across the country.
06:57And they are tired of a politics that has effectively been bankrupt, whether it's politically bankrupt, morally bankrupt, or economic.
07:05And they're looking for something that actually speaks to their needs.
07:09Behind the scenes, this was kind of the most political hardball we've seen you play at this point.
07:19Several of the endorsements, Claire Valdez and Daria Lisa, of course, came kind of against the wishes of that sort
07:26of centrist bloc of the party.
07:28I mean, endorsing against Adjano Espiat was a big political move for you.
07:33I guess take me into that decision.
07:35Why did you think that this was the right time to, you know, take those shots and that that was
07:40what was needed for the movement you're trying to build?
07:43You know, I made a promise a little more than a year ago to New Yorkers that I would use
07:47every tool at my disposal to deliver on an affordability agenda.
07:53And when I looked at these races and I saw Claire, Daria Lisa, Brad, in each of them, I saw
08:01candidates that were not just compelling on what they were building, but also compelling in who they were speaking to
08:07and how they would fight for those same people.
08:09And the consistency, the clarity, the conviction that characterized all three of these races in terms of the message that
08:17they were putting forth, it's one that compelled me to make that decision.
08:21And it's not to say that there's not risk involved in those decisions, but oftentimes when you are fighting for
08:26those who have been left behind, there will always be risk.
08:29It will always be easier to let that fight go.
08:31And I do often think about the words that Tim Walz said about political capital to paraphrase him of what
08:37is the use of having it if you're not using it to help working people.
08:41And I think that's what came back to me in that moment and continues to is how do we actually
08:46make it easier to afford life in the city?
08:47And one of the ways is by having partners who are willing to fight just as hard in Washington as
08:51we're fighting here in New York City.
08:52Yeah, and that national battle, I think, has really come into center stage in a large part by your framing
08:59of the stakes of these races, but also in sort of the reaction to them.
09:03I think the most sort of succinct encapsulation of it was the tweet by former DNC chair Jamie Harrison on
09:11election night where he said, you know, I say this with no ill will or animosity.
09:15If you hate the Democratic Party, then please don't run for our nomination.
09:19You know, and he didn't mention you by name, he didn't mention any of these candidates, but it seems like
09:24a pretty pointed critique of, like you say, of those of spending that political capital.
09:29How do you how do you respond to that?
09:31Or I guess how did how does that make you feel when those kind of former party leaders take that
09:35stance?
09:36I think usually if someone says this is not of any ill will or animosity, what they're about to say
09:41is characterized by ill will and animosity.
09:43I mean, it's a it's a version of no offense, but look, I think the question that I come back
09:50to is what is the Democratic Party, if not its voters?
09:52And if you look at what Democrats are voting for in New York 13, in New York 7, in New
10:01York 10, and you say that that is not representative of the party, it may not be representative of what
10:06has effectively become our party, which is something that's run by well paid consultants and big money interests.
10:13But it is representative of what Democrats themselves want to see. And it's representative of the fact that in this
10:18country, there is just one majority, and that's of the working class. And that's not just true in this city.
10:23It's not just true in another city. It's true across the entirety of our nation. And people want to see
10:28a party that understands that and fights for that.
10:30What has been a lot harder for you since coming into office than you thought it would be on the
10:35campaign trail?
10:37Yeah, I think it's it's often framed that campaigning is that which is easy and governing is that which is
10:44hard. In campaigning, however, you are asking people to believe in something despite their own experiences, you're asking people to
10:52believe that government can deliver for working people. And you're asking them to do so in spite of the fact
10:56that oftentimes government has failed them, whenever they have come to rely on it, whether at the city level, the
11:02state level, or the federal level.
11:03And what I so appreciate about governing is that it comes with an opportunity to deliver, you don't have to
11:09ask people to trust any longer without being able to feel something. And over the course of these past six
11:14months, we've taken what was previously an intellectual question of what does it look like to run a city with
11:23with democratic socialism, as part of its principles, and delivered on it.
11:26And in these six months, we have paved over 165,000 potholes, we have returned 10s of millions of dollars
11:34to tenants who were taken advantage of by their landlords, we have put our city on a path to universal
11:39childcare, saving parents more than $20,000 a year that they would otherwise have spent for childcare for two year
11:45olds, we've done all of this while delivering the lowest recorded number of murders and shootings in New York City
11:50history.
11:51And with a commitment to put our city on a path to the most ambitious affordable housing agenda that we've
11:59seen in generations building 200,000 new homes that will actually be affordable to New Yorkers and preserving 200,000
12:06homes that are already affordable.
12:07Are there ever moments where it's difficult for you to feel like you have to compromise in areas that you
12:13didn't want to or don't want to and in your heart?
12:17Yeah, I think that the job is difficult at its core, because it's a job where you are looking to
12:23deliver for eight and a half million people, many of whom have experienced politics as an act of disappointment with
12:32various stages.
12:33It is also, however, an opportunity. And for me, my North Star is thinking about those that have been priced
12:39out of the city. And what I've found over the last six months is when you build a team that
12:44has that same commitment,
12:46there's a lot more that's possible to do than what we've been told in the past.
12:49Has being in office changed how you think about any of these things? Is there a specific situation where you
12:56got into office? Because you're committed to this message, and you're committed to what you want to do.
13:02And I think you're committed to delivering what you promised on the campaign, right?
13:07But I think what's interesting to me is finding out what changed for you. Because yeah, that transition from campaigning
13:16to governing is, I think, really compelling.
13:18And it's one of the things that gets brought up again and again and again, when someone like you runs
13:22for office, right? So it's not so much that I'm trying to say, like, is there any credence to critiques
13:30that, you know, democratic socialists can never effectively govern or something like that.
13:33But I want to know, for you, what were the kind of like, welcome to reality moments or points of
13:40frustration?
13:42I think I'll push back on the framing a little bit.
13:45Sure.
13:45In that I think that sometimes the characterization of the difference between governing and campaigning is given as a justification
13:52for compromise.
13:54It's given as a justification for the abandonment of what you ran on.
13:59And I am never going to say that this work is easy or it's straightforward. It's incredibly difficult.
14:05However, there is a way to deliver on what you ran on.
14:08And it will mean that you have to push.
14:12It will mean that you will receive many a no and you have to ask why.
14:14And it will also mean inheriting longstanding city policies that the closer you look at them, the more you realize
14:21there isn't much that this is actually grounded in other than the fact that it's been done again and again
14:26and again.
14:27But I find that this difference of characterization, oftentimes it's actually one that's given an advance of the difficulty so
14:37as to explain why someone simply couldn't try to fulfill those things.
14:41And our agenda, it's an ambitious agenda because it's an agenda that looks at the wealthiest city in the wealthiest
14:47country in the history of the world and says it's unacceptable that one in four New Yorkers are living in
14:51poverty.
14:52And it will take time, but what we've shown is that even in six months, you can put the city
14:57on a different path and that's a path that working people themselves can walk on, not just one they have
15:02to watch as others do.
15:03A lot of the things that you've run on would not have been so shocking, I think, to the political
15:09establishment in FDR's era, right?
15:11Why do you think that those things are seen as political impossibilities now?
15:17I think because for a long time, those kinds of ideas can only be found in a history book as
15:23to what the Democratic Party can stand for, what it can fight for.
15:27I mean, you even just think about the distillation of this vision into the four freedoms.
15:32That, if offered today, would be heard as if a radical vision of this country, when in fact, as you
15:38said, it's very much grounded in why so many are proud to be Democrats, why I'm proud to be a
15:44Democrat.
15:44And I think it also speaks to a recent history of our party becoming something that is more a reflection
15:54of the thoughts and concerns and hopes and desires of a consultant class and of special interests than one that
16:05is a reflection of what working people need.
16:07You say you're proud to be a Democrat, I think, which sort of strikes right at where this national conversation
16:15is right now.
16:15It's framed as this battle for sort of the heart and soul of the Democratic Party.
16:21But I do think that while there are a lot of voters who respond to what you have to say
16:28and who respond to the kind of policies that you're proposing, there is still a voting wing that is, for
16:35whatever reason, more attached to the centrist factions of the Democratic Party.
16:42Do you think that your movement can ever coexist with those?
16:45Or is this really sort of an existential battle for where the party is going to go?
16:49I think we all belong to the big tent that is the Democratic Party.
16:52I think the question that is now in front of us is where do we want to go and what
16:56do we want this party to be?
16:58And I think for quite some time, we've defined ourselves purely in response to what the Republican Party is.
17:06And they have this seemingly limitless ambition for what it is that they want to accomplish, whereas we seem to
17:13be constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility.
17:16And we know that in 2028, yes, we have an opportunity to move beyond the current federal administration.
17:22And that begs the question, to what?
17:25And I think that it is time to be able to not only have a vision, but to deliver on
17:30that vision.
17:31And what we're showing here in New York City is that it is possible to put working people back at
17:38the heart of our politics and then also deliver for them at the same time.
17:42And I think we talk about this in the language of pothole politics to show that there's no problem too
17:48big, no task too small, that, yes, we can deliver on universal child care while we also pave over 165
17:54,000 potholes.
17:56Because too often, New Yorkers have been asked to choose between their quality of life and the quality of the
18:04city's ambition.
18:05And it's time to show that, in fact, both of these things can be fulfilled at once.
18:08What does National Democratic Party look like to you in your ideal world?
18:12It looks like a party that is asking itself the question of what working people are struggling with, and then
18:19answering that question with what they can do to make life easier for those same people.
18:24I believe that government's responsibility is to deliver for working people.
18:30And I believe that our politics has to go beyond an intellectual exercise and has to be something that is
18:37material.
18:38If we cannot describe our politics and how it helps people afford their rent, their groceries, their child care, then
18:46it seems like a hobby that some people can afford to have.
18:49Politics has to be something that speaks to everyone, no matter how much money is in their pocket, and frankly
18:55reflects the needs of those who have the least amount of money in that same pocket.
18:59The phrase I keep seeing online is like, turns out you can just do things.
19:03What's one thing in these first six months that you're proud of just having done that wasn't, you know, a
19:09stated campaign promise that wasn't something you were thinking about?
19:12Like, was there ever a moment where you're sitting around with your team and you're like, hey, why don't we
19:16just do this and saw it through?
19:18On the first day of our administration, after inauguration, I went to meet with a number of tenants who live
19:27in a building that is controlled by a real estate organization where they have filed complaint after complaint after complaint.
19:39And I went into one of the tenants' homes and she showed me her bathroom and it was just rust
19:46falling off the pipe, falling off the ceiling.
19:49And I asked her how long she'd been living with us and then she turned around and she pointed to
19:53her son and she said longer than he'd been alive and he was more than 20 years old.
19:56And we made the decision to file a lawsuit on behalf of those tenants.
20:03Just by virtue of filing that lawsuit, we got the next owner to agree to remedy all of the violations
20:11at that building and other buildings owned by that same real estate organization.
20:14And that to me shows the worth of fighting because if you aren't willing to fight, it means you will
20:21never be able to win.
20:22But it's probably incredible to be able to see your vision enacted so immediately and directly onto someone's lives.
20:29But you have to enact it.
20:31And I just say our vision.
20:34This is not, I'm not the mayor who is sitting in the room and I have every idea and then
20:39I tell the team go do it.
20:40I'm the mayor sitting in a room alongside so many incredible New Yorkers for whom their expertise has long been
20:50put as if a footnote in the conversations that are being had in City Hall.
20:55And so many of the accomplishments that we've seen over these last six months, it's by virtue of this team.
21:01It's by virtue of actually putting people in places of power where they can also help to create that vision
21:08together.
21:08Sorry, but you were asking the question.
21:09No, I was just going to say you need to enact those things systemically as well.
21:15I mean, as you know, better than I do, NYCHA is one of the most complaint-ridden landlords in the
21:24city, right?
21:25So what do you take from those moments of just being able to go out and make an immediate effect?
21:32I think sometimes the systemic nature of an issue has been used to justify why you cannot do anything in
21:42the short term.
21:43We have heard many who have come forward and said, NYCHA has $80 billion in capital needs.
21:48It's a federal responsibility.
21:50We need the federal government to act.
21:52All true.
21:53We also know that whether or not it's a Democratic administration or a Republican administration, NYCHA has had those capital
22:01needs.
22:02And if we are going to wait for D.C. before we take action, we are effectively leaving hundreds of
22:08thousands of public housing residents on the hook for the amount of years that it will take for D.C.
22:15to finally remember those same tenants.
22:17And so what we've made the decision to do is that we are going to put forward the kind of
22:23resources that go beyond what the city has done before to start to display what that commitment can look like.
22:31And so we nearly doubled our city's capital commitment to NYCHA.
22:35We are actually looking to take the few things that we've seen work in NYCHA over the last few years,
22:41the kinds of complaint systems like an ombudsman call center, and expand that.
22:45And to do all of this while saying that NYCHA can be a place where we are addressing multiple crises
22:51at the same time.
22:52One thing that I'm very excited about is that we're going to be delivering heat pumps into a public housing
22:58development that both address quality of life concerns and address the concerns around the climate crisis.
23:04Part of the reason that you face questions like this is because when you have a political rise as quick
23:10as yours was, when you're as outspoken on the issues as you are, you kind of become the face of
23:16a movement in American politics.
23:18But a trend that I've noticed as well is that obviously when you become the face of something, then all
23:24of a sudden you start becoming, you know, liable in some ways for everything that someone wants to pin on
23:33you, right?
23:33Where it's like, when will Zoran Mamdani respond to this?
23:37How do you decide which of those critiques you feel like you have a responsibility to respond to?
23:44I think if they affect working New Yorkers, and there's a difference between the discourse and what people in the
23:54city are concerned about.
23:55And where that difference exists, I think it's time to refocus back to the people.
23:59And where it is one and the same, then it's worth engaging with.
24:01And I think the more you surround yourself with the people of your city, the more you realize what it
24:12is that they are concerned about.
24:14You're good at this.
24:16Everyone who has seen you, met you, interviewed you says the same thing.
24:21Sometimes it's said kind of not as a compliment.
24:25Sometimes it is said as a genuine compliment.
24:26Sometimes it's said it's not, right?
24:28But what does being a good politician mean to you?
24:37I think it means delivering.
24:39I think for a long time being a good politician has meant debating.
24:44And we want it to be something that, it means something.
24:48We want it to be material.
24:51There's, if you, if you knock on a New Yorker's door right now, and you ask them what they're worried
24:57about, they'll define it in terms of cost.
25:00And yet, for a long time, politics has defined, been defined as if it's conversation.
25:05And we want to bridge that.
25:07And thank you.
25:09Very kind.
25:10I think right now, there's this big question of how will Zoran Mamdani deal with the NYPD, how you deal
25:20with policing in the city, and things like that.
25:22And I think a lot of that is still kind of to be written as your term in mayor goes
25:26along.
25:26But what was your relationship with the police growing up?
25:29I grew up in our city with an experience of police in that there were some for whom there were
25:37people in their family who were serving on the force, others for whom it was only the experiences they would
25:42have with officers themselves.
25:45I don't recall having any experiences in our city that really do stand out to me at a personal level.
25:52But I think one thing that has stood out to me is that for quite some time in our city,
25:58New Yorkers have been made to feel as if they have to choose between safety and justice.
26:03And I think it's critically important that we deliver the both of them and show that, in fact, that isn't
26:08a choice that has to be made any longer.
26:09The other national issue I think that has become increasingly relevant for every politician in this country is Israel and
26:18Gaza.
26:19Why do you think that it's important for New York's mayor to have a really clearly defined position on that
26:28subject?
26:29I think it's important to be honest with others and whenever asked to share that with New Yorkers.
26:36And I've been clear about the fact that my politics is one that has no exception.
26:42When I'm speaking about the importance of dignity and international law and human rights, I speak about that with an
26:51application to everyone.
26:52And for a long time, what we've seen, both in this city and across the country, is a willingness to
26:59exempt Palestinians from those ideals.
27:03And the more willing you are to cut anyone out of a conviction, the more likely you are to lose
27:10that conviction altogether.
27:11I've found that with people that have such sort of strongly held convictions about things, everything from Israel and Gaza
27:20to your economic message and things like that, I guess, when did those start to develop?
27:26I think from a young age, if I could see a contradiction between that which we said we believed and
27:36that which we were willing to do, it was something that I just couldn't let go.
27:41And especially going into high school and then into college, seeing the bridge was one that I couldn't understand how
27:51it was both acceptable and tenable to say that we believed in all of these things and yet here we
27:57were clearly trampling them.
27:58It also felt as if it is a uniquely, how do I put this, the more you're in politics, the
28:09more you're told this is just simply how it is.
28:12And to me, I just never think that's a good enough answer.
28:15You know, your wife has come under some of the similar kinds of criticism as you have over her views
28:20on Israel and Gaza, over things that she posts on social media, etc., etc.
28:24When you got into office, how are you two adjusting to that?
28:32It is hard to prepare for death threats.
28:36It is hard to prepare for getting a phone call from a district attorney telling you that someone from another
28:42state is going to be charged for what they have said and hope to do about you.
28:50And I've also known for quite some time that when you are willing to speak up for all people, there
28:58are consequences that come from it.
29:02It's obviously at a different scale once I started running for mayor, once I won the nomination and then the
29:07general election, and now that I sit in front of you as the mayor.
29:10But even when I was an assembly member and I would speak about how it's unacceptable that we're sending billions
29:18of dollars to kill innocent Palestinians, I would receive voicemails that threatened many of the same things.
29:28And the intent of those messages is to repress that belief in a universality.
29:37And that's something that I will never let go.
29:40And I've come to accept it as part of the work that I do.
29:44What will always be very difficult to accept is what it means for the people that I love.
29:50And you grow up, you hear politicians speak about it, and it initially reads as if it's a cliche.
29:57And then when you start to live it, you fully understand the weight of what this work does to those
30:01that you love and those around you, and that it transforms everyone's life.
30:07And I think that is something that will always be hard to contend with.
30:13We've got to talk about Trump.
30:14Okay.
30:16What do you think about him constantly saying how handsome you are?
30:26Thank you?
30:29We'll take it, I guess.
30:31Let's talk about, I think, your relationship with him.
30:34I think that was kind of one of the most striking parts of the very beginning of your tenure as
30:40mayor was that meeting with Trump at the White House.
30:44That went, I think, to pretty much any observer really well for both of you.
30:50He probably felt the same way.
30:52What's your current relationship now?
30:55The relationship is as it was.
30:57It's built around New York City.
30:59I think for all of the many disagreements that the president and I have, we have one thing in common,
31:04which is a love of this place.
31:05And whenever we speak, whenever we meet, it always comes back to that.
31:09I think the fear has always been that something like what happened in Minneapolis, something like what happened in Los
31:17Angeles is going to come to New York City.
31:19Do you feel like you kind of, you need to stay on his good side in some ways to prevent
31:24that from happening?
31:25Or is that a risk?
31:26I think I need to continue to be honest with the president.
31:29And that honesty is in places of disagreement.
31:32I've spoken to him directly about how I think of ICE as a cruel agency that does nothing to serve
31:39the interests of public safety.
31:40And I've spoken about how I think that ICE should be abolished.
31:43We should have an immigration system that has humanity at the heart of it.
31:46And also, the president, he is a New Yorker.
31:51In that first meeting, as much as we were having a conversation as the mayor and the president, we were
31:57also having a conversation as two New Yorkers, even at one point talking about community boards and zoning laws.
32:02New York, of course, is a microcosm for the country.
32:05It hasn't escaped the ripple effects of what Trump has done.
32:09I spent some time last fall doing a story down at 26 Federal Plaza.
32:15When you think about his second term and how it's affecting New York City, I guess what's been the most
32:21damaging or how has that second term really affected the city?
32:24I think you brought up 26 Federal Plaza.
32:28The cruelty of ICE is not an intellectual concern to our city.
32:32There are New Yorkers who've had their families split apart by this agency.
32:36I get texts on a regular basis from both people that I know and those that I've never spoken to
32:41before asking me for help.
32:43And it speaks to the fact that this has become almost a daily reality across our city and across our
32:51country.
32:54And, you know, as someone who often speaks about the cost of living in the city, I'd also be remiss
33:00if I didn't talk about the impact of these health care cuts.
33:03They are, whether we're speaking about health care or we're speaking about SNAP, federal policy is making it harder for
33:10people to afford to live in the city.
33:12And we're trying to do everything we can to fight back against the effect of those cuts.
33:16We're trying to do everything we can to ensure that those who are eligible can stay on SNAP and that
33:22those who depend on life-saving treatment can still find a way.
33:28And yet there is a limit to what a city can do in the face of federal policy that is
33:32looking, frankly, to decimate these programs.
33:34And it's going to have a real impact on an untold number of New Yorkers across the five boroughs.
33:40What do you think New York's role is in national politics?
33:43I think we have an opportunity in our city to show that this politics can deliver for those that have
33:51been left out of it.
33:53For a long time, so much of what we have fought for, we've been told this could never work.
34:00You could never do this.
34:01And now here in the biggest city in the country, we have an opportunity to show that, in fact, universal
34:07child care and pothole politics are one and the same.
34:12That the worth of an ideology comes from its ability to deliver for people.
34:16And we've learned that in this country for many years, especially through sewer socialism.
34:21And at a moment when people are being told this across the country, that there could never be a place
34:27which delivers on their needs, we have an opportunity to show that that is, in fact, the case right here
34:32in the city.
34:33What are you privately kind of worried that you're not going to be able to deliver on?
34:41I often go back to why so many New Yorkers knocked on doors for our campaign.
34:49What brought them out to do that?
34:53And many of them spoke of the campaign in the language of a hope for our city.
35:01And that hope is a responsibility.
35:04If you share that with others, it's also a duty to deliver on it.
35:13And to deliver on it in the same way that those same New Yorkers went to knock on those doors.
35:19And so for me, when we talk about 2,000 seats of free child care for two-year-olds this
35:26year, 12,000 seats next year, a seat for every single two-year-old by the end of four years,
35:31I always want to make clear that that is not my achievement.
35:35That is not even just, frankly, the achievement of our administration.
35:37It's the achievement of everyone who walked up those six-floor walk-ups and knocked on door after door after
35:45door and told people that there was a world we could win where child care didn't have to be $20
35:51,000.
35:53And I want to measure our administration in whether we delivered for both the person who was knocking and the
36:02one whose door was getting knocked on.
36:04And stepping back and thinking about it in the material, because so much of politics gets distilled into the narrative.
36:12And the narrative doesn't mean much for somebody who can't afford to live in the city.
36:15Your upbringing was about as true New Yorker as it gets, right?
36:21For someone who came here at the age of seven.
36:23Your references to music are kind of everywhere.
36:27It doesn't seem like you can give a speech without dropping at least a line or a reference or something
36:32like that.
36:33It's part of how I understand the world and how I understand my place in the world.
36:37Some of my earliest memories are in New York City, I used to love going to Tower Records.
36:43I think it was on like 66th and Broadway.
36:45And they would have just floors of just incredible numbers of CDs.
36:49And for some reason, I loved The Offspring at the time.
36:55Classic of the era.
36:56Three to four albums.
36:58The first album I was given was the clean version of JC's The Blueprint.
37:04And the funny thing was that they used to sell bootleg CDs right outside of Tower Records.
37:09And that's where I bought Eiffel 65's seminal classic.
37:13A lot of people only know them for Blue Abba Di Abba Di.
37:15Too Much of Heaven, great song.
37:17What are you listening to now?
37:19I am, right now I've been listening to a lot of Radio and Weasel, who are a duo from Uganda,
37:25who were running the charts for a long, long time.
37:29One of them sadly passed away.
37:30I've also been listening to a Pakistani rapper named Shamoon Ismail, who I've listened to for a few years, but
37:37I'm also listening to a little bit more of his music.
37:40And, you know, if I'm feeling reflective, throw on some Kacey Musgraves.
37:45The new album was great.
37:46You know, I'm still listening to Golden Hour.
37:49That's fantastic.
37:50Yeah.
37:51I know you're a Knicks fan.
37:52I know you're a soccer fan.
37:53What was your entry point to sports?
37:55Because, I mean, for me, it was my dad, who, as I told you, is English.
37:59And those were, like, some of my earliest sports memories, where, like, my dad waking me up at, like, 4
38:04o'clock in the morning to watch, like, Chelsea lose or something like that, you know, on the Spanish channel.
38:09Because it was the only place that was showing the game of the week or something.
38:12Now you can watch Chelsea lose on Peacock.
38:14You know, I can.
38:16And I've been doing a whole lot of that recently.
38:18God bless you, man.
38:19Yeah.
38:19Well, I also saw the Champions League final, so that was some consolation.
38:22Yeah.
38:24You watched.
38:25We played.
38:26What were some of your early, like, memories of sports?
38:29In the city.
38:29Who was the first person that, like, got you into those fandoms?
38:34Clear Lake Capital.
38:35Yeah.
38:36It was 10-year amortized contracts.
38:38They're hard to resist.
38:39Spying up a lot of young players thinking about the potential value of some Twitter.
38:42You thought you could be one of them at that time, right?
38:43No, I just thought, like, that's what the game is.
38:46Yeah.
38:46Like, it's a financial model.
38:47I got to get in on it.
38:49Yeah.
38:49I think the early...
38:53I have to credit my uncle.
38:56He introduced me to Arsenal.
38:58And that was in the late 90s, early 2000s.
39:02And a lot of that was, you know, I was born in Uganda and East Africa.
39:06Arsenal, I would argue, is the most supported team in Uganda.
39:09And I think a lot of that has to do with the history of African talent on the team.
39:15And, you know, whether it's Kanu or Lauren or then went on to be Kolo Touré, Emmanuel Labue, Alex Song.
39:22I'll even name him, even though forever hurt by Emmanuel Adebayor.
39:25Yeah.
39:28And those are so many of my memories.
39:30I mean, I even...
39:31I think we still have, like, these fridge magnets from back in the day of David Seaman and Sylvain Wiltord
39:37and a lot of those players.
39:39And I think my first World Cup memory is probably around 98 as well.
39:42Yeah.
39:43And Zidane and just falling in love with Zizou.
39:47I mean, what a player.
39:50And then, you know, 2002, I was living in New York City at the time.
39:56And it was the first time my dad ever let me be late for school was when France was playing
40:00Senegal.
40:02And, you know, his love of academia had no chance against Pan-Africanism.
40:07And stayed home, watched Papa Bouba Diop, score on Fabien Barthez.
40:10And that's one of my early memories.
40:13It's funny because you, I mean, clearly, like, what goes around is, like, you know ball.
40:18Like, you really know these sports.
40:20How do you use that to connect with people?
40:23There are a lot of people for whom sports are effectively their first language.
40:28You know, when you speak to someone for whom English is clearly a second or third or fourth language,
40:34you are in some way speaking to a shadow of them.
40:36You're missing the entirety of who this person is.
40:43And when you talk to someone about sports, whether it's soccer or basketball or wherever else it may be,
40:50it's as if the fullness of them is finally in view.
40:55And I think even now, just thinking about the World Cup,
41:00so many New Yorkers are finally able to be their full selves as they celebrate what's been a pretty incredible
41:06tournament so far.
41:07Well, ma'am, I'm Donnie.
41:07Thank you so much for sitting for the Rolling Stone interview.
41:10I'm feeling good about it.
41:11Feeling good about it.
41:12Thank you, sir.
41:14Thank you, sir.
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