- il y a 6 semaines
A l'occasion de la sortie de "L'Odyssée", le nouveau film de Christopher Nolan, Mehdi Maïzi a pu discuter avec Tom Holland et Matt Damon.
Retrouvez "À la régulière" sur France Inter et sur https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/a-la-reguliere
Retrouvez "À la régulière" sur France Inter et sur https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/a-la-reguliere
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MusiqueTranscription
00:00Tom, Matt, how are you?
00:03Living the dream.
00:04Yeah, definitely.
00:06Talking about a great movie during the World Cup,
00:08this is the life you chose?
00:11It's pretty good.
00:12I hope it's the one I chose because it feels great.
00:15I wanted to, I've been lucky enough to watch the movie
00:18and the first thing that came to me is like,
00:21it seems really big, you know, in terms of ambition,
00:25of every story that the movie tells.
00:28Because I know, like, when Christopher Nolan did Tenet,
00:32I think it was released during the COVID or something like that,
00:35it was the movie that was supposed to save movies
00:39and bring back people to the movie theaters.
00:42And I'm not saying the same situation,
00:44but, you know, with the release and all the expectations
00:47about the movies, we have the feeling that, you know,
00:49this is the biggest movie of the year.
00:53Do you have this feeling and how it feels to be a part of that,
00:55be a part of the movie that everyone is waiting for
01:00and everyone is going to watch it?
01:02It's really exciting to be.
01:03And I was excited from the moment he called me
01:06and offered me the part.
01:07I felt so lucky to be a part of this
01:10because it's so ambitious.
01:13The story is an ambitious story to tell
01:16because it's just epic.
01:17And it's almost like six different movies in one.
01:21And, but the way he wanted to do it, you know,
01:24he does everything practically and everything's in camera.
01:26So if you see a thousand people in a battle,
01:29there were a thousand people there doing it.
01:31And, you know, the ships in the background of shots,
01:34those are real ships.
01:36You know, so that, the coordination that that takes
01:38and it is just immense.
01:40it's, it's, it's, um, I've never seen anything like this.
01:44Um, I don't know how many movies I've done,
01:4680 movies or, but nothing at this scale.
01:48Um, but on top of it all, he was,
01:50he wanted to do it all in IMAX.
01:52And, and that's technically very challenging.
01:55Nobody has ever done that, uh, for a feature film.
01:57So, so knowing that I got to be a part of that,
02:01like, you know, there were thousands of people
02:03who worked on this movie,
02:05but all of them had the same priority.
02:07They all love cinema, they all love,
02:09and they all knew, we all knew
02:11that we were doing something that had never been done.
02:13And so, so that made it, uh, you know,
02:16all the things that were challenging about it
02:18were actually joyful
02:20because we, we knew we were doing it all
02:23in service of this, uh, of this new thing.
02:27It's the third time you're working with Christopher Nolan,
02:29but it's the first time that you're the main character,
02:32actually.
02:33What's different, like, uh, to be like the,
02:35because in Interstellar,
02:37we don't even know you were in the movie.
02:39Yeah.
02:40Uh, now for this one, we know.
02:42Does it feel like, uh, is it different
02:44even in terms of pressure
02:45because you're not the only one, of course,
02:47in this movie,
02:48but you're, it's clearly about you
02:50and your character.
02:51So what does it change?
02:53It just, it just changes the workload.
02:55There's just more, more work.
02:57You know, it was a, it was a long shoot.
02:59It was a grueling shoot.
03:00And, and I, I worked almost every day.
03:03Um, and, and so that, so I didn't, you know,
03:07it's an amazing role.
03:09It's a great role.
03:10It's, you know, the story that we've been telling
03:12for 3,000 years that still has resonance for people.
03:16So, um, so I knew I had this great role
03:20and this great script.
03:22And with Chris Nolan directing, like,
03:24so I didn't, I wasn't worried about the work,
03:27um, uh, at really at all.
03:30I just was, was trying to, to experience the joy of,
03:34of, of, um, and, and, and a lot of gratitude
03:37for getting to, for getting to be there.
03:39Tom, um, because I have, I have the feeling
03:42there is almost a Christopher Nolan universe.
03:44You know, like we, we have some, some actors
03:47at like Matt, like Anna Taway
03:49who's coming back for this movie.
03:50And it's the first time you're working,
03:52you're in this universe.
03:55Um, how did it feel to, to be a part of it?
03:57And did you hesitate when Christopher Nolan
04:01called you to, to be a part of this movie?
04:04Uh, to the hesitation, no.
04:05As soon as I found out that he was interested
04:08in meeting with me, I was in London.
04:10I jumped on the first flight I could get on.
04:13I flew out to LA and I met with him that next morning.
04:16Um, and I think as a young actor
04:20and someone that loves film, you know,
04:22when you're outside of the Christopher Nolan bubble,
04:25you do look up to the giants that grace that stage
04:28and make those movies.
04:29And you think, God, I'd love to get up there one day.
04:32Um, so to be there and to have a,
04:35to have been a part of this process
04:37and for that process to be this movie
04:39and for this movie to be so groundbreaking
04:42and to really be making history, you know,
04:45shooting a movie on IMAX entirely was impossible
04:48until this film.
04:50And what I am super excited about
04:52is to see who tries to do that next.
04:56You know, and how, how does that work?
04:58They'll refine the process.
04:59Like they'll, you know, we were the first to go.
05:02We figured out some technical things.
05:04Chris figured out some technical things.
05:05And, and with, with IMAX, they solved them.
05:09But, uh, but yeah, more,
05:10because people are already starting to use,
05:13like I know Ryan Coogler used some IMAX,
05:15you know, Denis uses, you know,
05:16so, so there are direct, you know,
05:18a lot of people have started
05:20kind of dipping their toe in this.
05:21And, and, but to do a whole film,
05:24uh, you know, it, it, it, it, it's,
05:28it's painstaking at moments.
05:30You know, it's technically tough,
05:31but like it's so worth it and it's so fun.
05:34And, and the crew is really, you know,
05:36it's exciting for everybody
05:37to, to overcome those challenges.
05:39And so I feel like the process
05:41will probably get refined as we go
05:42and, and hopefully more people will do it.
05:45Was the shoot hard?
05:47Because it looks hard from our point of view.
05:50Uh, very physical, uh, shooting on sea,
05:54stuff like that.
05:55Um, was it as hard as it looks?
05:58Yeah.
05:58Yeah.
05:59Yeah.
06:00Uh, uh, it was really challenging for,
06:02or, but it, what made it so great
06:05was that it was, it was truly hard
06:07for everybody, like every department,
06:09you know, there was no, if it,
06:11it was more like going on an expedition
06:13with a group of people than making a movie.
06:15Because, you know, if you're shooting
06:17at the top of a mountain,
06:20you have to get to the top of the mountain.
06:22Like nobody's going to carry you.
06:24You know, you got to go.
06:25So, so, so, you know,
06:28or if you're out on the ocean,
06:30like if you're getting rained on
06:32or if it's, you know, the weather's not nice
06:34or you're cold, like there's nowhere to go.
06:37You're out on this ship.
06:38And you look around and there are your friends,
06:40you know, the other actors, the other crew
06:42and all the people who are,
06:43who are with you on this journey.
06:44And so, um, so all of that experience was shared
06:48and which, which made it, uh,
06:51which made it a lot more fun.
06:52I think it also, it had to be tough
06:55because IMAX is the pinnacle of photography
07:01and you can't hide in IMAX.
07:04There is, there is no hiding.
07:06So anytime that if we try to make something
07:09more comfortable or, or, you know, or easier,
07:14it would read on the screen.
07:15So I think when you see those sequences,
07:17for me, especially it's the storm sequences
07:19of you guys on that boat.
07:21and you're, it looks like you're getting
07:23waterboarded on that raft.
07:24You know, that Matt Damon is just getting
07:26waterboarded in the middle of the ocean.
07:29That's how they shot that.
07:30And I think that the IMAX kind of pushes you
07:33to the absolute max because the audience
07:37wouldn't believe it if we didn't.
07:38We had a boat, Scott Fisher, our effects supervisor.
07:42We had a boat that's, it was Scott's boat.
07:44It was the special effects boat.
07:45And basically it just had five giant fire hoses on it.
07:50And you would see this boat come over the,
07:53and everyone would go, oh.
07:56And so there are those scenes where we're at sea
07:58and we're getting rained on.
07:59And that's this boat firing this water at us.
08:04You know, and it was like a wall of water hitting,
08:06but you know, you're all there.
08:08It's like Chris is right next to you.
08:11You know, Chris literally, there was a lot of wind one day.
08:14We were shooting in Favignana
08:15and the water wasn't hitting the boat right.
08:18And finally Chris just basically called in an airstrike
08:21on his own position.
08:22He just grabbed the walkie-talkie and, you know, said,
08:25Scott, right here.
08:27Like, he hit me.
08:28And then suddenly, like, I imagine, in my memory,
08:30Scott was smiling.
08:31Yeah, he lost it.
08:32And this just wall of water came and we're like,
08:35oh, shit, here we go.
08:36So, but, you know, that's, you know, again,
08:41it's all about getting it real and in camera.
08:43And so when you see the movie,
08:45it looks like we're getting...
08:47But it's like, I think for the shoot,
08:50like, you know, and he just,
08:53you can see he's almost like,
08:55he's almost enjoying, like,
08:57how much the audience is going to hate him.
09:00Exactly.
09:01Your character is a hero,
09:04but, like, one of the most notorious one.
09:07But it's not, like, it's not perfect.
09:10Like he's saying in the movie,
09:12I don't want to spoil anything,
09:13but, like, he made mistakes
09:14or he also feels some guilt about what...
09:18That's really important.
09:19And we really understand that through the movie.
09:23And of course, we can make some parallels
09:25with what's happening in the world.
09:27Like, that's what makes this story really modern,
09:31actually still modern.
09:33Like, do you see this guy as a hero?
09:35Do you see this guy as a legend
09:37or just as a normal man?
09:40Well, I think, yeah,
09:43I think, you know,
09:45he's described as a complicated man.
09:47Yeah.
09:47And I think that's what's so great about him
09:48is he's not just one thing or another.
09:51He's, and I think that makes him very relatable.
09:54He's flawed and he makes bad decisions
09:57and he has to live with the consequences
10:00of his decisions.
10:01And I think that's also very relatable.
10:03So I think with The Odyssey,
10:05it's almost like,
10:06it almost depends on where you are in your life
10:08when you encounter the story.
10:11Because, you know, when you're young,
10:14it might feel like a coming of age story.
10:16You know, when you get to my age,
10:18you might relate more to that,
10:20you know, the regret, you know,
10:21for, you know, for, you know, decision,
10:23you know, things that you've done
10:25that you wish you could do differently.
10:26And, but again, it's like,
10:30it's kind of what you bring to it
10:31that is going to resonate,
10:34that it will reflect back to you.
10:36When you are a child,
10:37what, who would you be?
10:40Who wanted you, like,
10:42who did you want to be as an hero?
10:45As a child?
10:45Yeah, as a child.
10:46I wanted to be an actor.
10:48Okay.
10:49That was a perfect hero.
10:51Yeah, that was my...
10:51And you tell me because
10:52you're already Spider-Man,
10:54but like, who wanted to be...
10:55Oh, I wanted to be Spider-Man too.
10:57Oh, yeah, yeah.
10:58But that was an expression of the fact
11:00that I really wanted to be an actor.
11:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:03And you?
11:04I don't, I don't really know.
11:06Okay.
11:06I am, I know that I never wanted to be an actor.
11:09It was something that I just really fell into.
11:11I loved dancing and,
11:13and I did this Saturday school
11:15and I was just lucky enough
11:17that a casting director came to see one of our shows
11:20and asked me to audition for Billy Elliot.
11:22And yeah, my parents just were like,
11:24well, there's no harm, no foul.
11:25Like, probably be a good experience.
11:27I went to the open audition.
11:29I, I, I auditioned for nearly two years
11:32and, and it, the audition process was really intense.
11:35They started sending dance teachers to my school
11:37and I had to drop out of like the rugby team
11:40so that I could go and do ballet instead
11:42and all that sort of stuff.
11:43I got the part
11:44and I think my parents just thought,
11:47wouldn't this be such a cool experience
11:49to do something like that?
11:50So they were supportive.
11:51Yeah, totally.
11:52And then I, I was just lucky enough
11:55that an agent came to see the show
11:57and she could have seen any four of us.
11:59Oh, right.
12:00She just happened to see me in the show
12:02and afterwards she asked if she would,
12:05if she could sign me
12:06and she would have signed any four of us
12:09because, you know, we're all, you know, young kids.
12:12And I agreed because again, my parents were like,
12:14I don't really see how that could hurt.
12:16Like, let's see what comes of it.
12:18And then my first audition for my first film
12:20was The Impossible
12:21and I got the part
12:23and then I just kind of never really looked back
12:26and it wasn't until I'd worked with Naomi Watts
12:28and I saw someone like a craftsman,
12:33like I saw the way she kind of put together
12:34that performance
12:35and I thought, oh, wow,
12:36like she does that for a living.
12:39Like maybe this could be something that I could do.
12:41Like she's a real pro
12:42and it wasn't until that movie came out
12:44that I really kind of entertained the idea of like,
12:46oh, well, maybe I should be an actor
12:50and I'm so glad that that happened.
12:54When you were, like, because Tom said,
12:56like when he met Naomi Watts
12:57and like it was really something
12:59that he understood about his career.
13:01Did you add something like that also
13:02when you started in the business
13:05with an actor or a director
13:07or some moment where you realized like,
13:09yeah, it could be your life?
13:11Yeah, well, I always, I mean, I was very,
13:15I think I got into the union when I was 16
13:17and Ben Affleck lived around the corner from me
13:19and we, that's all we talked about
13:22and thought about.
13:23And it was weird because we lived in Boston
13:25so that's not an industry town.
13:27We didn't know anybody in the movie business
13:29or in serious theater down on Broadway.
13:32Like we got an agent in New York
13:36so he and I would take the bus together to New York
13:39and we'd go audition for things
13:40and not get parts and get rejected.
13:42And it was part of that, you know,
13:44process of getting rejected for things
13:47and just, but encouraging each other
13:53and like stoking the flame in one another
13:57that we never doubted
13:59that this was what we were going to do,
14:01which in retrospect is weird.
14:02But it didn't seem for some reason weird to us
14:05when we were teenagers.
14:05Yeah, you were really confident
14:07about what you could accomplish?
14:08We were very confident.
14:10I mean, with absolutely no evidence to be in our favor.
14:14Like we were bizarrely confident kids.
14:19It's, I think, also it's a movie,
14:22the Odyssey that's supposed to be seen in theaters.
14:27And how do you cope with also the fact
14:30that a lot of people will go to the theaters
14:32but also a lot of people will maybe watch it
14:35in six months on their phones and stuff like that,
14:37which is, okay, like I think everybody is allowed
14:39to do what they want,
14:40but it's not really how the director meant
14:44and created this movie.
14:47Can it be frustrating as an artist,
14:49as a comedian,
14:50to know that your work may not be seen
14:54in the perfect conditions?
14:55Well, I always think of it like,
14:57you know, 99% of the people
14:59who've seen Good Will Hunting
15:01have seen it on television.
15:02It is true.
15:03And so that's the fate of every movie
15:05is to be seen on a secondary screen somehow.
15:10You know, I'd still hope people would be watching it.
15:14It'll be formatted for all of those things
15:16and it'll look great.
15:19But obviously, if you get a chance to see it
15:21in the biggest format,
15:23that, you know, you should definitely jump at it.
15:25It's worth it because it's captured that way
15:27and all that detail is there.
15:30But look, this movie will live, you know,
15:33it doesn't get to live in the theater forever,
15:35so it's eventually going to go onto home screens.
15:37Do you agree with that, Tom?
15:39Like, it's not really a part of the screen.
15:42Really, like, it doesn't really...
15:43It's important to see the theaters,
15:45but it's not a big deal
15:46if people watch it on their phones
15:48or on their computers.
15:50I don't know.
15:50I don't think so
15:51because I think that's what's so special about movies
15:53is that they're eternal
15:55and they have this life that, you know, lives on.
15:58And we're lucky that this movie, The Odyssey,
16:00is the type of movie that in 10 years' time,
16:03it'll probably be screened again in IMAX
16:05for the avid fans to go and relive this moment.
16:10I think that cinema is to be enjoyed, you know,
16:14at home with the family,
16:16but I love watching it in the cinema for me.
16:17Like, I feel like there's a real surge,
16:20especially in, you know,
16:21the Gen Z movement of people that are loving cinema.
16:24Like, being a cinephile is something to celebrate again.
16:27Yeah.
16:27And, you know, I went to see Obsession the other day
16:29in a packed-out theater,
16:31and it was such an amazing experience
16:34because I had a unique experience
16:37with a bunch of strangers,
16:38but for that two hours, we were a group of people.
16:42Yeah, there's nothing like going to the cinema.
16:44Yeah.
16:44I mean, it's just the best when you can go to the cinema.
16:46But I just think if, like,
16:47when I'm thinking of, you know,
16:49my favorite films that I show my kids,
16:51you know, it's like they're not screenings.
16:54I have to show them at home, you know,
16:55that's the only place.
16:56And so you can still share it, you know, on a TV.
17:00Just try to find the biggest TV you can.
17:03What is the last movie you showed to your kids?
17:06Well, we just went to Obsession
17:07right before we came here.
17:09So they kind of took me to Obsession.
17:11Okay.
17:13One of them had seen it already
17:14and wanted the rest of the family to go.
17:16So we went out for dinner, and then we went to...
17:18Did you watch Backrooms also?
17:20I haven't seen Backrooms.
17:22I haven't seen Backrooms.
17:22It's great.
17:23I know, I heard it.
17:23You know, we had time for one movie
17:26before we started this press tour.
17:29And the kids wanted to go see Obsession.
17:32I think it's interesting also
17:33how the horror movies like now
17:35is with small budgets
17:37is managing to have a lot of people
17:40going to the theater.
17:40It's a genre that works.
17:43What we need to do is make sure...
17:44We Pond's last year or so was like that.
17:45Yeah, we need to make sure
17:47that that's happening across other genres.
17:49Yeah.
17:49And that's the key.
17:50We want to unlock that too.
17:52Yeah.
17:53Maybe coming back to the Odyssey,
17:56there's something also that is visible
18:00when we watch the movies,
18:01the preparation that you went to.
18:04I mean, I imagine in terms of reading scripts
18:08and preparing the character,
18:09but also in terms of building your body also.
18:13how was it to prepare for this shooting?
18:17I think, Matt, you say that
18:19that's been one of the hardest moments
18:22of preparation for a movie.
18:23Yeah.
18:23How was it?
18:24Yeah, it was a lot
18:26because I'm not as young as Tom.
18:29But Chris was very specific
18:31about what he wanted me to look like
18:32and it was very clear what I needed to do.
18:35And so it was just...
18:36but I had like six months to get ready
18:38and then the shoot was about six months.
18:40Did you enjoy these times
18:42when you have to prepare physically for a character
18:45or is it really boring and exhausting?
18:47No, I did enjoy it
18:50because it was very kind of prescriptive.
18:53I knew exactly, you know...
18:56Yeah.
18:56It was like a 24-hour-a-day job at this age, you know.
19:00Yeah.
19:00Because every single thing I'm putting in my body
19:02and getting my rest and the training
19:04and all of that stuff,
19:05it was more like an athlete's...
19:08You know, I have friends who are athletes
19:10and I watch what they go through
19:12and it was regimented in that way.
19:14Okay.
19:16And which is, you know,
19:17it's fun to be able to do that at my age
19:19and...
19:20But yeah, it was a 24-hour-a-day job.
19:23Did you also have this kind of preparation
19:24for this movie, Tom, or...?
19:26He just walks around like...
19:28He just looks great all the time.
19:30He's a Spider-Man.
19:31He's a Spider-Man for God.
19:32He's a superhero.
19:34To give you some more credit,
19:38Matt's stamina on this film is pretty unmatched.
19:41You know, we would shoot these huge long days,
19:44especially in L.A.,
19:45the third act of the movie,
19:47and then you'd have a two-hour stunt rehearsal
19:50after filming because, you know,
19:52the movie was so massive
19:54and it was constantly growing
19:55that, you know,
19:56we didn't have as much time
19:57halfway through the film to rehearse
19:59as we did at the beginning.
20:01You know, and I remember, you know,
20:03having a full 12-hour day's work,
20:05then you're adding a two-hour fight rehearsal.
20:07And it's not a fight rehearsal
20:08between one, two guys.
20:10It's between Matt and 100 stunt performers.
20:13And we were blessed with
20:14an absolutely impeccable stunt team.
20:16Yeah, unbelievable.
20:17Super caring, really hard-working,
20:20and safety came first,
20:21but it never sacrificed the quality of the work.
20:26So, you know, it was really eye-opening to me,
20:28sort of wrapping a 12-hour day
20:30and going,
20:30oh, I really need to go to bed,
20:31and then seeing that you had
20:32a two-hour rehearsal afterwards.
20:34I mean, there's not many people
20:36that could do that.
20:37Yeah.
20:37And as we said,
20:39there are a lot of different stuff
20:41in the movies,
20:42but, and like you just said,
20:43there are also some big fights.
20:45Yeah.
20:45Especially one.
20:47Yeah.
20:47How, like, did you make it really,
20:50like, we believe it when we sing?
20:54Of course, you've,
20:55both, you fought in previous movies.
20:59You, Jason Bourne, of course,
21:00we talked about that before the interview,
21:01but how did you make it,
21:03like, really credible on screen?
21:05That's all the choreography.
21:07That's George Cottle.
21:08I, I really wondered, you know,
21:10always, ever,
21:11from the first moment I've read the Odyssey,
21:13like, how does he beat all these people
21:14in a fight?
21:15Like, and, and George did a great,
21:18uh, uh, the, the choreography's really smart
21:21because at one point early on in the fight,
21:24he does get overwhelmed,
21:25and George kind of does a great job of,
21:29of, of, through the choreography,
21:30showing how he is able to,
21:33to, to basically, uh,
21:36kind of one by one,
21:38um, take, you know, take,
21:40I don't want to give too much away,
21:41but it's, it's a really well choreographed fight,
21:43and as Tom said,
21:44we had this, this extraordinary stunt team,
21:47and they really, really experienced guys.
21:49Also, they needed to be
21:50because they're all supposed to be
21:51kind of my age or in their 40s,
21:53or, you know what I mean?
21:54So, they look like, like, you know,
21:57a bunch of suitors of all different kinds,
21:58and so, um, but, but they were,
22:01they were a very high-level group.
22:02A lot of them were stunt coordinators
22:04in their own right,
22:05and so, movie fighting is much more like dancing
22:08because you have to both be
22:11in exactly the right place for it to work,
22:13and so, when you get a mediocre dance partner,
22:17but you partner them with somebody great,
22:19they make the, they make them look better,
22:21and so, so, that's what I was going from,
22:24great dance partner to great dance partner,
22:26and those guys, like, in real time can adjust,
22:30you know, and, and, and, and sell the punch
22:32or make it work, um, even if you're off a little bit.
22:35I think my time is up.
22:37Thank you very much, guys.
22:38Thank you so much.
22:39Congratulations for the movie.
22:40It was an honor to, to meet you.
22:41Thank you.
22:42Thanks.
22:42Thank you.
22:42Lovely chatting.
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