- il y a 6 semaines
A l'occasion de la sortie de "L'Odyssée", le nouveau film de Christopher Nolan, Mehdi Maïzi a pu discuter avec Tom Holland et Matt Damon.
Retrouvez "À la régulière" sur France Inter et sur https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/a-la-reguliere
Retrouvez "À la régulière" sur France Inter et sur https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/a-la-reguliere
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Art et designTranscription
00:00Tom Matt, comment allez-vous ?
00:03Le rêve.
00:04Oui, c'est toujours le rêve.
00:06Vous parlez de la grande movie pendant la World Cup.
00:08C'est la vie que vous avez choisi.
00:11C'est très bon.
00:12J'espère que c'est la vie que je choisi.
00:14C'est un peu génial.
00:15Je suis heureux de regarder la movie.
00:19Et la première chose qui me a eu, c'est que ça me semble vraiment grand.
00:22En termes de l'ambition,
00:25de chaque histoire que la movie a dit.
00:29Je sais que quand Christopher Nolan a dit Tenet,
00:32c'était le film qui était supposé
00:38sauver les films et les gens à les théâtres.
00:42Je ne disais pas la même situation,
00:44mais avec le release et l'expectation de la movie,
00:48nous avons l'impression que c'est le plus grand film de l'année.
00:52Est-ce que vous avez ce sentiment ?
00:54Qu'est-ce que vous avez l'impression de faire,
00:55de faire un part de la movie,
00:58que tout le monde est waiting pour et tout le monde va voir.
01:01Il est vraiment passionné.
01:03Et il me a eu, et il me a eu,
01:05la moment où il me a eu, il me a eu,
01:07l'a eu eu, la j'ai eu,
01:08l'a eu eu, l'a eu eu eh.
01:09L'a eu eu l'a eu, l'a eu, l'a eu, l'a eu, l'a eu.
01:10L'a eu, parce que c'est-ce que c'est-ce que c'est-ce que c'est-ce
01:15que c'est.
01:16just epic and it's it's almost like six different movies exactly in one and um but the way he wanted
01:23to do it you know he does everything practically everything's in camera so if you see a thousand
01:28people in a battle there were a thousand people there doing it and you know the ships in the
01:32background of shots those are real ships um you know so that the coordination that that takes
01:38and is just immense it's it's um i've never seen anything like this um i don't know how many
01:45movies i've done 80 movies or but nothing at this scale um but on top of it all he was
01:50he wanted to
01:51do it all in imax and and that's technically very challenging nobody has ever done that uh for a
01:57feature film so so knowing that i got to be a part of that like you know there were thousands
02:02of people
02:03who worked on this movie but all of them had the same priority they all love cinema they all love
02:09and they all knew we all knew that we were doing something that had never been done and so so
02:14that
02:14made it you know all the things that were challenging about it were actually joyful
02:20because we we knew we were doing it all in service of this uh of this new thing
02:26it's the third time you're working with Christopher Nolan but it's the first time that you're the main
02:31character actually what's different like uh to be like the because in interstellar we don't even know
02:38you were in the movie yeah uh now for this one we know does it feel like it's different even
02:44in
02:44terms of pressure because you're not the only one of course in this movie but you're it's clearly
02:50about you and your character so what does it change it just it just changes the workload there's just
02:55more more work you know it was a it was a long shoot it was a grueling shoot and and
03:00i i worked
03:02almost every day um and and so that so i didn't you know it's an amazing role it's a great
03:09role that's
03:10you know this story that we've been telling for 3 000 years that still has resonance for people
03:15so um so i knew i had this great role in this great script and with chris nolan directing like
03:24so i didn't i wasn't worried about the work um uh at really at all i just was was trying
03:31to to
03:32experience the joy of of of um and and a lot of gratitude for getting to forgetting to be there
03:39tom um because i have the feeling there is almost a christopher nolan universe you know like we
03:45we have some some actors at like matt like anataway who's coming back for this movie and it's the first
03:51time you're working you're in this universe um how did it feel to to be a part of it and
03:57did you
03:59hesitate when chris nolan called you to to be a part of this movie uh to the hesitation no as
04:06soon
04:06as i found out that he was interested in meeting with me i was in london i jumped on the
04:12first flight
04:12i could get on i flew out to la and i met with him that next morning um and i
04:19think as a young actor
04:19and someone that loves film you know when you're outside of the christopher nolan bubble you do look
04:25up to the giants that grace that stage and make those movies and you think god i'd love to get
04:31up
04:31there one day um so to be there and to have a to have been a part of this process
04:37and for that process
04:38to be this movie and for this movie to be so groundbreaking and to really be making history
04:44you know shooting a movie on imax entirely was impossible until this film and what i am super
04:51excited about is to see who tries to do that next you know and how does that they'll refine the
04:59process
04:59like they'll you know we were the first to go we figured out some technical things chris figured out
05:04some technical things and and with with imax they solved them but uh but yeah more because people
05:11are already starting to use like i know ryan coogler used some imax you know denny uses you know so
05:17so
05:17there are direct you know a lot of people have started kind of dipping their toe in this and and
05:22but to do a whole film uh you know it it it it's it's painstaking at moments you know it's
05:30technically
05:31tough but like it's so worth it and it's so fun and and the crew is really you know it's
05:36exciting for
05:36everybody to to overcome those challenges and so i feel like the process will probably get refined
05:42as we go and and hopefully more people will do it was the shoot hard because it looks hard from
05:49our
05:49point of view uh very physical uh shooting on sea stuff like that um was it as hard as it
05:57looks yeah
05:58yeah okay yeah uh uh it was really challenging for but it what made it so great was that it
06:05was it was
06:06truly hard for everybody like every department you know there was no if it was more like going on an
06:12expedition with a group of people than making a movie because you know if you're shooting at the top
06:17of a mountain you have to get to the top of the mountain like nobody's gonna carry you you know
06:24you
06:24gotta go so so you know or if you're out on the ocean like if you're getting rained on or
06:32if it's
06:33you know the weather's not nice or you're cold like there's nowhere to go you're out on this ship
06:38and you look around and there are your friends you know the other actors the other crew and all the
06:42people who are who are with you on this journey and so um so all of that experience was shared
06:48and which which made it uh which made it a lot more fun yeah i think it also it had
06:54to be tough
06:55because imax is the pinnacle of photography and you can't hide in imax there is there is no hiding
07:06so any time that if we try to make something more comfortable or or you know or easier it would
07:14read
07:14on the screen so i think when you see those sequences for me especially it's the storm
07:19sequences of you guys on that boat and you're it looks like you're getting waterboarded on that raft
07:24you know that matt damon is just getting waterboarded in the middle of the ocean that's how they shot that
07:30and i think that the imax kind of pushes you to the absolute max because the audience wouldn't
07:37believe it if we didn't we had a boat scott fisher our effects supervisor we had a boat that's it
07:43was
07:43scott's boat it was the special effects boat and basically it just had five giant fire hoses on it
07:49and you would see this boat come over there and everyone would go
07:56and so there are those scenes where we're at sea and we're getting rained on and that's
08:00this boat firing this water at us um you know and it was like a wall of water hitting but
08:06you know
08:07you're all there it's like chris is right next to you you know chris literally there was a lot of
08:13wind one day we were shooting in favignana and the water wasn't hitting the boat right and finally
08:18chris just basically called in an airstrike on his own position he just he just grabbed the walkie
08:24talkie and you know said scott right here like hit me and then suddenly like i imagine in my memory
08:30scott was smiling yeah and this just wall of water came and we're like oh shit here we go um
08:37but but
08:38you know that's you know again it's all about getting it real and in camera and so when you
08:44see the movie it looks like we're getting pounded by you know we you know we we are yeah um
08:50it's not
08:50a very original thing to say but i've been i'm a huge christopher nolan fan like everyone but um i
08:58i think
08:59this is the first movie the first christopher nolan movie that made me cry actually and i have the
09:05thing that it may be the first christopher nolan movie that can make everybody cry you know like
09:09i'm not saying there's no emotion in his previous movies but it's not where the main focus is and
09:16this one is like you said it's a different movie like you have a lot of action a lot of
09:22emotions lots
09:23of love also lots of friendship and some very emotional stuff especially at the end i don't want
09:28to spoil anything do you have this feeling that this is the first really emotional christopher nolan
09:34movie well i i i've cried in a number of chris's movies okay yeah yeah interstellar when he leaves
09:40yeah that's true how can i forget that i was a wreck um but uh but look i think that's
09:47a few things
09:48one it's this story the odyssey right that that that is about all of those things you just said
09:55it is about homecoming and love and family and war and and and and regret and all of these things
10:01that
10:01are very that are so human that this story just has endured for 3 000 years generation after generation
10:08we we still everyone's touched by it and then it's his interpretation of it and and so and so yeah
10:14i
10:14i think the combination of those two things i think it's a very very emotional movie but with
10:19all of those you know all of the you know it's the cyclops and the action and yeah all of
10:24the hits
10:24yeah tom how did you approach this character because you're supposed to love your father but you
10:30didn't you don't know him actually um so how did you approach this character you know like expressing
10:36the love and you're really attached to this mythical figure that you don't know so how was it in terms
10:44of yeah of creating this character well i think all of us actors were so blessed with the script you
10:51know the we probably had the strongest foundation and clearest blueprint for what chris wanted us to
10:58try and do with our characters um i felt a great deal of pressure with the opening of the movie
11:02because
11:03i feel like you know anne's character in particular penelope is establishing the the absolute need
11:11for odysseus to return and you know i really felt the pressure of making sure that we we gave that
11:16audience that desperate need to want him to come home um and then for me i feel like it's the
11:23original
11:23coming of age story you know i really wanted to make telemachus at the beginning of the film
11:30feel really young and youthful and naive and to have this kind of unwavering optimism
11:36that his dad would return um so for me it was just about trusting chris and and sort of leaning
11:43on
11:43anne to be honest i was so lucky that all of those scenes for me i'd get to do with
11:48her and she's so
11:50fantastic in the film and she really sets the tone i think for the emotion right off the jump you
11:56can feel
11:57that 20-year angst kind of about to explode out of her penelope um so for me it was just
12:04about
12:05working with amazing people and doing my best really there's someone who's amazing in the movie
12:13but you cannot like i hated him for the world movies robert pattinson yeah he's so good he's so good
12:22but he's really good when he's bad like that yeah yeah and but he's he's great but it's really hard
12:29not to hate him in this movie um how did you also like work with him like because no we
12:34know we know
12:35like we are some some legends about you know character actors who stay in characters and sometimes to
12:40really maintain this tension during the movies they don't really talk to each other during the
12:45shoot or was it with with robert yeah rob's not like that at all okay rob is actually
12:52incredible at like jumping in and out of that character and rob could not be further from antinous
12:58like he is as lovely as a person can be i love working with him i've had the the pleasure
13:03of working
13:03with him three times now um and every time i do a scene with rob i feel like i leave
13:07the set
13:08a better actor like he really tests you he pushes you there's no decision that's too big and bold for
13:15rob and it requires you as an actor to be really present and really listen because he'll run away
13:21with the scene if you don't and i just really admire how he kind of
13:29acknowledge that i need to be hated in this movie and he just went for it and he's not afraid
13:35to
13:35no no no no he's so brave yeah he goes because he knows that the full might of christopher nolan's
13:42storytelling yeah it's gonna come down on his head and he's just like let's
13:47fucking go you know what i mean it's so cool he he's he's he just really leans in to all
13:53that i mean
13:54he's so horrible in this movie like like you know and he and he he just you can see he's
13:59almost like
14:01he's almost enjoying like how how much the audience is gonna hate him exactly um your character is a
14:08hero but like one of the most notorious one but it's not like it's not perfect uh like like he's
14:17saying
14:17in the movie i don't want to spoil anything but like he made mistakes or he'll also feel some guilt
14:22about
14:23what that's really important and we really understand that through the the movie and of
14:29course we can make some parallel with what's happening in the world like that's what makes
14:34this story really modern actually still modern um like do you do you see this guy as a hero do
14:41you
14:41see this guy as a legend or just as a normal man well i i think yeah i think you
14:50know he's described as
14:51a complicated man yeah i think that's what's so great about him is he's not just one thing or
14:55another he's he's uh um and and and i think that makes him very relatable he's flawed and he makes
15:02bad decisions and and he has to live with the consequences of his decisions and um i think that's
15:08also very relatable so i think with the odyssey it's almost like it it almost depends on where you are
15:13in
15:13your life when you encounter the story because you know when you're young it might feel like a coming
15:20of age story you know when you get to my age you might relate more to that you know the
15:26regret you
15:27know for you know for you know decision you know things that you've done that you wish you could do
15:31differently and um um but again it's like it's it's kind of what you bring to it that that is
15:38gonna
15:39resonate that it will reflect back to you yeah when you were a child what would you be who wanted
15:46you like who did you want to be as an hero as a child yeah the child i i wanted
15:52to be an actor okay
15:54that's what the perfect yeah and you tell me because you're already spider-man but like oh i wanted to
16:01be spider-man too oh yeah yeah but that was a that was a an expression of the fact that
16:06i really wanted to
16:07be an actor yeah and you i don't i don't really know okay i am i know that i never
16:13wanted to be
16:14an actor it was something that i just really fell into i loved dancing and and i did this saturday
16:20school and i was just lucky enough that a casting director came to see one of our shows and asked
16:26me
16:26to audition for billy elliott and yeah my parents just were like well there's no harm no foul like
16:31probably be a good experience i went to the open audition i i i auditioned for nearly two
16:37years and and it the audition process was really intense they started sending dance teachers to
16:42my school and i had to drop out of like the rugby team so that i could go and do
16:46ballet instead and
16:48all that sort of stuff i got the part and i think my parents just thought wouldn't this be such
16:53a cool
16:54experience to do something like that so they were supportive yeah totally and then i i was just lucky
17:00enough that an agent came to see the show and she could have seen any four of us oh right
17:06she just
17:06happened to see me in the show and afterwards she asked if she would if she could sign me and
17:12she would
17:13have signed any four of us because you know we're all you know young kids and i agreed because again
17:19my
17:19parents were like i don't really see how that could hurt like let's see what comes of it and then
17:24my first
17:24audition for my first film was the impossible and i got the part and and then i just kind of
17:30never
17:31really looked back and it wasn't until i'd worked with naomi watts yeah and i saw someone like a
17:37craftsman yeah like i saw the way she kind of put together that performance and i thought oh wow like
17:42she does that for a living like maybe this could be something that i could do like she's a real
17:47pro
17:48and it wasn't until that movie came out that i really kind of entertained the idea of like oh well
17:52maybe i
17:53should be an actor and i'm so glad that that happened when you were like because tom said like when
18:02he
18:02met naomi watts and like it was really something that he understood about his career did you have
18:07something like that also when you you started in the in the business with an actor or a director or
18:13some moment where you realized like yeah it could be your life yeah well i always yeah i mean i
18:20was
18:20very i think i got into the union when i was 16 and ben affleck lived around the corner for
18:25me and we
18:26um that's all we talked about and thought about and it was weird because we lived in boston so that's
18:31not an industry town exactly we didn't know anybody in the movie business or or in serious theater down
18:37on broadway like um we we got an agent in new york so he and i would take the bus
18:43together to new york and
18:45we'd go audition for things and not get parts and get rejected and it was part of that you know
18:50process
18:51of getting rejected for things and and um and um and and just but encouraging each other and like
18:59stoking the flame in one another um that we we never doubted that this was what we were going to
19:06do
19:06which in retrospect is weird but it didn't seem for some reason weird to us when we were yeah you
19:11were
19:11very confident about what you could accomplish we were very confident but i mean with absolutely
19:17no evidence to be in our favor like we were we were bizarrely confident kids um it's i i think
19:26also it's a movie the odyssey that's supposed to be seen in theaters um and how do you cope with
19:35also the fact that a lot of people will go to the theaters but also a lot of people will
19:39maybe
19:39watch it in six months on their phones and stuff like that which is okay like i think everybody
19:44is allowed to do what they want but it's not really of the director meant uh and created this
19:51movie um can it be frustrating as an artist as a comedian to know know that your work may not
19:59be
19:59seen in the perfect conditions well i i always think of it like you know 99 of the people who've
20:05seen
20:05goodwill hunting have seen it on television it's true and so that's the fate of every movie yeah
20:11is to be seen on a secondary screen somehow yeah um you know i i i'd still hope people would
20:19be
20:19watching it it'll be formatted for all of those things and it'll look great um but uh but obviously
20:25if you get a chance to see it on on in the biggest format that you know you should definitely
20:29jump at it
20:30it's good it's worth it because it's captured that way and all that detail is there um but but
20:36look this movie will live you know it's it's it doesn't get to live in the theater forever so yeah
20:41so it's eventually going to go onto home you agree with that them like it's not really a part of
20:46the
20:46screen really like it doesn't really it's important to see to see the trailers but it's not a big deal
20:51if people watch it on the phones or on the computers i don't know i don't think so because i
20:57think
20:57that's what's so special about movies is that they're eternal and they have this life that you
21:02know lives on and we're lucky that this movie the odyssey is the type of movie that in 10 years
21:07time
21:08it'll probably be screened again in imax for the avid fans to go and relive this moment um
21:15i i think that cinema is to be enjoyed you know at home with the family but i love watching
21:22it in
21:22the cinema for me like i've i feel like there's a real surge especially in you know the gen z
21:27movement of people that are loving cinema like being a cinephile is something to celebrate again
21:33and you know i went to see obsession the other day in a packed out theater and it was such
21:38an
21:38amazing experience because i had a a unique experience with a bunch of strangers but for that
21:45two hours we were a group of people yeah there's nothing like going to the cinema yeah i mean it's
21:50just
21:50the best when you can go to the cinema but i just think if like when i'm thinking of you
21:54know my
21:55favorite films that i show my kids you know it's like i they're not screenings that i have to show
22:00them at home you know that's the only place and and so you can still share it you know on
22:05on a on
22:05the tv just just try to find the biggest tv you can yeah what is the last movie you you
22:10show to your
22:11kids well we just went to obsession right before we came here so they kind of took me to obsession
22:16okay they had uh uh one of them had seen it already and and wanted the rest of the family
22:21to go so we went out for dinner and then we went to did you watch backrooms also i haven't
22:26seen i haven't seen it yet i know i heard it you know i i had we had time for
22:31one movie before we
22:32started this okay okay press tour um and uh and the the kids wanted to go see obsession i think
22:38it's
22:38interesting also how the our movies like now is with small budgets is managing to have a lot of
22:45people going to the theater it's a genre that that that works what we need to do last year or
22:50so was
22:51like that yeah we we need to make sure that that's happening across other genres yeah yeah yeah and
22:55that's the key we we want to unlock that too yeah um maybe coming back to the odys to the
23:01odyssey
23:01sorry um there's something also that we that is visible when we watch the movies the preparation
23:07that you went to like i mean in terms i imagine in terms of reading scripts and preparing the
23:14character but also in terms like of building your body also uh how was it to to prepare for this
23:22uh for
23:22this shooting as i i think matt you say that that's been one of the hardest moments uh of preparation
23:28for a movie yeah how was it yeah yeah it was it was a lot because i'm i'm not as
23:33young as tom
23:34um but chris was very specific about what he wanted me to look like and it was very clear what
23:39i needed to do and so it was just but i had like six months to get ready so and
23:44then the shoot was
23:45about six months so did you enjoy these times like when you have to prepare physically for a character
23:50or is it really boring and exhausting no it's i did enjoy it i i um because it was very
23:57kind of prescriptive i knew exactly you know it was like a 24 hour a day job at this age
24:05you know
24:05yeah every single thing i'm putting in my body and every you know the getting my rest and the training
24:10and all of that stuff it was more like like it like it like an athlete's you know when i
24:15have friends
24:15who are athletes and and i watch what they go through and it was it was regimented in that way
24:19um and uh which is you know it's fun to be able to do that at my age and and
24:25uh but it yeah it was
24:27a 24 hour a day job did you also have this kind of preparation for this movie tom or he
24:32just walks
24:32around like he just looks great all the time spider-man he's just spider-man for god he's a superhero
24:39the uh to give you some more credit the matt's stamina on this film is pretty unmatched you know we
24:47would shoot these huge long days especially in la the the third act of the movie and then you'd
24:53have a two hour stunt rehearsal after filming because you know the the movie was so massive
24:59and it was constantly growing that you know we didn't have as much time halfway through the film
25:04to rehearse as we did at the beginning you know and i remember you know you having a full 12
25:10hour days
25:10work then you're adding a two hours fight rehearsal and it's not a fight rehearsal between one two guys
25:15it's between matt and a hundred stunt performers and we were blessed with an absolutely impeccable
25:21stunt team like super caring really hard working and safety came first but it never sacrificed the
25:29quality of the work um so you know it was really eye-opening to me sort of wrapping a 12
25:35hour day
25:35and going i really need to go to bed and then seeing that you had a two-hour rehearsal afterwards
25:39i mean
25:40there's not many people that could do that yeah and as we said there are a lot of different stuff
25:46in
25:47the movies but and like just said there are also some big fights yeah especially one um oh like did
25:55you make it really like we believe it when we we think of course you've both you you you fought
26:02in
26:03previous movies uh you jason brown of course we talked about that uh before the interview but how did you
26:08make it like really credible on screen that's all the choreography that's george coddle i i really
26:14wondered you know oh ever from the first moment i've read the odyssey like how does he beat all these
26:20people like and and george did a great uh uh the the choreography is really smart because at one point
26:28early on in the fight he does get overwhelmed and george kind of does a great job of of of
26:35through the
26:35choreography showing how he is able to to basically uh kind of one by one um take you know take
26:45i don't
26:45want to give too much away but it's a really well choreographed fight and as tom said we had this
26:50this
26:51extraordinary stunt team and they really really experienced guys also they needed to be because
26:56they're all supposed to be kind of my age or in their 40s or you know what i mean so
27:00they look like
27:01like like you know a bunch of suitors of all different kinds and so um but but they were
27:06they were a very high level group a lot of them were stunt coordinators in their own right
27:10and so movie fighting is much more like dancing because you have to both be in exactly the right
27:17place for it to work and so when you get a mediocre dance partner but you partner them with somebody
27:24great
27:24they make they make them look better and so so that's what i was going from great dance partner
27:30to great dance partner and those guys like in real time can adjust you know and and and and sell
27:37the
27:37punch or make it work um even if you're off a little bit i think my time is up thank
27:42you very much
27:43guys and thank you so much congratulations for the movie it was an honor to to meet you thank you
27:47thanks thank you lovely chatting
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