00:00One of the most anticipated round of 16 clashes, Argentina versus Egypt became one of the tournament's biggest controversies.
00:07Egypt was leading 2-0 with 11 minutes to go and then the result turned.
00:12Argentina won 3-2 but Egypt now has alleged that VAR, the video assistant referee decisions and referee bias
00:19meant that they were robbed of what they believe was a victory.
00:23It is an issue that has now divided the footballing world. Was Egypt denied a victory because of referee bias
00:34and allegations that the FIFA wants Argentina to proceed to the finals of the tournament?
00:41Serious questions being raised. I'm joined now by Bhai Chung Bhutia, former India footballer and captain,
00:47one of our greats of the sport. Appreciate you joining us, Bhai Chung.
00:52So much of controversy in that Argentina-Egypt game. What's your feeling?
00:57We've had people like Jose Moreno, the coach saying Egypt was robbed of a victory.
01:03Do you go along with that? Do you believe Egypt was robbed of a victory by referee bias
01:08and wrong video assistant decisions?
01:13I don't exactly agree to it. Again, you are coming to a very minute kind of a decision here
01:21with VAR coming into play. So if you do look into the goal which Egypt scored and that was disallowed,
01:29I think there was definitely a foul with Martinez up in the Egypt defence area and that's where the build
01:39-up happened.
01:40So if you're looking at the law by the books, yes, and that was the same thing where they won
01:46the ball
01:46and that move happened and the great run by Hassan went on to score by Zico.
01:52I think the build-up play happened when the foul happened with Martinez, but it was a very small foul.
01:59But if you go by the books, yes, it was a foul. But a lot of times in football in
02:04the past,
02:04we've seen those are overlooked and the referees take a call. And actually, referee had not given that as a
02:10foul.
02:11But when it went back to VAR, then it did show it was a foul.
02:15You know, which comes back to VAR itself, the video assistant referee.
02:20Now, VAR obviously was designed to cut out clear and obvious errors or ensure that there were no obvious fouls
02:28that were not seen, a blatant mistake if it was overlooked. But now you have VAR intervening
02:34when something is happening hundreds yards away in the field and it results in a goal.
02:40Do you believe, therefore, that the problem lies that VAR is very subjective?
02:45It can be interpreted differently. Egypt is now complaining that when Argentina scored their third goal,
02:51there was a foul. But VAR did not intervene.
02:53So, VAR seems to have become now the 12th man in football, on the football pitch.
03:01Yes, again, you know, VAR is not perfect. I do agree because there have been issues
03:07in which I also have not been totally convinced with.
03:10And when it comes to technology, I think every people would question it
03:13because technology these days can be, you know, can be manipulated.
03:17And when any team or any refereeing or any organisation wants to do it, can be done it.
03:22So, I think there have been a lot of debate and there have been a lot of discussions on that.
03:27Personally, I also feel that if VAR was 100% right, even the Japan and Brazil goal,
03:35which Brazil scored with, you know, first goal, I felt that by an inch as well,
03:41there was an offside on that because I'm a Japanese team supporter.
03:46So, I'm trying to be a little biased here.
03:48But yes, I think there have been decisions where it's by the inch they've been given an offside thing
03:54and sometimes they've not gone into it.
03:57So, I completely agree that VAR has not been 100% right in this tournament.
04:04Okay, but let me come, Baichung, to the elephant in the room
04:07because one of the stars of Egypt, Hassan, after the game said,
04:10he believes injustice was done because the entire tournament, he says,
04:14is being rigged or manipulated to suit Argentina and Lionel Messi in particular.
04:19The tournament needs Messi, therefore Argentina gets decisions in their favour that other teams don't.
04:25Do you go along with that?
04:26Big teams, big players are getting decisions in their favour.
04:29Many believe Messi could have been red-carded in the first game itself for stamping someone's foot.
04:35Do you think there is something to these claims being made?
04:40No, I don't completely agree with him.
04:45Because if you look at Egypt's and Argentina game as well,
04:49let's not forget, despite that disallowed goal, they still took the lead, two goals lead they had.
04:54And they conceded two goals, which are genuinely a fair and good goal, what Argentina score.
05:00So, they could have stopped, organised the defence a bit well and they could have won the game.
05:05So, I think it's a bit unfair to really blame it completely on Messi.
05:10Yes, there are times the big players, especially big players, get protected a few times.
05:15And it has to be as well because at the end, you know, football is, you know, all the football
05:21fans across the world would want to watch big players there, big teams there.
05:26But if it's not a direct kind of a red-card, which Messi, everybody was talking about it.
05:31I don't see that at all as a red-card because, you know, Messi was also running as well.
05:37I think he would be coming and you would discuss about Balugan as well.
05:40Same with Balugan.
05:42When Balugan got red-card, I was the one in the studio actually saying light that that was not a
05:47red-card.
05:47He should not have been given it.
05:49It was a very unfair decision that Balugan got that red-card.
05:53So, with that, even with Messi as well, there are intentional injuries that happen because I have a player and
05:58I know what are intentions of a player or opponent or, you know, players to injure.
06:05Or where they have genuinely gone for the ball.
06:07So, those things, I think the common sense of the referee has to come in as well.
06:12So, you seem to be more inclined to believe that Argentina deserved to win because of their stunning comeback.
06:17You don't seem to go along with the view that Egypt was denied a legitimate victory because they were playing
06:22a bigger team and the referee was biased against them.
06:25Am I correct?
06:27No, I think it's slightly wrong what you're putting it.
06:31It wasn't a victory.
06:32It was a two-goal league.
06:34You know, the controversial goal happened when they were 1-0 up and they scored that controversial goal which was
06:40disallowed.
06:41And if that had happened as well, they were going on a 2-0 lead.
06:44It wasn't a victory as such that that goal was giving them.
06:47It was a last-minute thing and they would have won the thing.
06:50So, I don't think, you know, it was Argentina and Messi was favoured in this game to win it.
06:57Yes, that fall did happen by the law.
07:00If you look at it, there was a fall, there was a pull of the jersey, there was a, you
07:04know, tackle, slight touch in the ankle of Martinez which, you know, happened.
07:10So, yeah, it wasn't that referee had, you know, blindly support.
07:16Okay, my final question, Baichung, who's going to win the cup?
07:21Who do you think out of the eight teams remaining is best place to win the cup?
07:24Who are you betting on?
07:29You know, I'm working with the channel, yeah, Sports Channel, Sports United, and I've already predicted we had done a
07:36show of, in the round of 16, eight teams to go to the quarterfinals.
07:42And I think seven of my teams are already there.
07:44One I missed out was Brazil.
07:46So, looking at it, my fourth semifinal at the moment looks like France, England, Spain, and I had actually put
07:58Argentina already in that semifinal list in the channel when we did a pre-show swing which teams are going
08:04to go to the semis and the finals.
08:06But now, with Argentina team with two matches, what I saw with Cabo Verdi and yesterday with Egypt, I'm not
08:14too sure if they're going to make it to the semifinals against Switzerland.
08:19I think Switzerland is a very, very good side.
08:21Though I had already put Argentina, four teams in semifinals were Argentina, Spain, England, and France.
08:27But now with Argentina's form, the way they are playing, I'm having a doubt that with Switzerland, I think they
08:32might not go to semifinals.
08:34But my two finals are England and Spain.
08:37And hopefully this time, hopefully, hopefully, England can win this World Cup.
08:44Wow, you want England to win?
08:47Baichung Butia says England might win.
08:49At this rate, you might be invited to Buckingham Palace as a special guest to a trip to London.
08:53Who knows?
08:54You're going with England.
08:55Interesting choice.
08:56It's been 60 years since England last won it.
08:59We'll have to wait and see, Baichung, whether that happens.
09:03Baichung You've got a country which is so passionate about football.
09:07You've got, you know, the best league that happens there.
09:10I think it's time that England wins it because, you know, they have quality players.
09:16They've been present.
09:17This time, they've got a great set of team, great manager with them.
09:21And it's been 60 long years and I think they deserve to win it.
09:24And hopefully, but only the problem is after they win it, then you'll have to hear it for the rest
09:29of the 100 years, I think, about the win.
09:31That is my difficulty.
09:32But I hope they win it this time.
09:35They deserve to win it.
09:36Okay, we'll wait and see, Baichung Butia, you're predicting England to win the tournament.
09:40You're saying Lionel Messi may not necessarily win another World Cup, but we'll wait and see.
09:46Lots of twists and turns still ahead in the World Cup football.
09:50Thanks very much for joining me, Baichung Butia.
09:52That's about all that we could pack in.
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