- 5 hours ago
Tuesday, June 3rd, 1913
Carl Hutcheson Names 30 Places In His Testimony
He Declares He Obtained Information First-Hand by Visiting Places Mentioned and Registering
LENGTHY LIST GIVEN JURY BY COL. FELDER
He Declined to Make Public His Information—Grand Jury Begins Probe of Charges About Disorderly Houses
Decidedly the most sensational evidence submitted to the grand jury Tuesday in its investigation of vice conditions in Atlanta, which investigation is said to have grown out of the recent charges published by Colonel Thomas B. Felder and Attorney Carl Hutcheson, was the testimony of the latter.
After emerging from the grand jury room, where he remained for more than an hour, Mr. Hutcheson was charged by a battery of newspaper photographers to whom he waved his hands and gleefully exclaimed: "I gave ‘em the dope, boys!"
Later he stated that he had given the grand jury, "all told," a list of thirty places—hotels and houses where vice is permitted to flourish. He declared that he had secured his information about the places first hand; that his evidence was not based on hearsy information.
Mr. Hutcheson said he had registered at a number of the hotels where he had arranged to have women sent to his rooms. He declared he had furnished the grand jury the names under which he had registered and that his own personal evidence was sufficient to justify many indictments.
To the grand jury Mr. Hutcheson exhibited a hotel kye [sic] which he stated he had forgotten to return. He declared that he had detailed his night visits to various places which are openly violating the law.
TOLD HIS OWN STORY.
"I was allowed to tell my story in my own way," said Mr. Hutcheson, "and was interrupted by but few questions from the grand jurymen, who manifested much satisfaction over the facts which I furnished them. Frequently the jurymen gave vent to satisfied exclamations.
"I have not charged graft in the police department and was, of course, not questioned along this line. I did charge that disorderly houses were being protected if their presence was known to the police and I insisted that if the police did not have such knowledge they were incompetent.
"I cited to the grand jury instances where the police had been notified that women of bad character had moved into respectable neighborhoods and not withstanding such notification the police had not ejected them.
"I delivered the goods, and it is now up to the grand jury."
Colonel Thomas B. Felder, who was called earlier in the day, and spent about fifteen minutes in the grand jury room, was afterwards closeted for an hour with Solicitor Dorsey. Just before leaving the court house he exhibited a typewritten list of about twelve or fourteen pages which he said contained the names and addresses of persons who conducted disorderly places. Opposite each name was said to be a note of evidence.
Carl Hutcheson Names 30 Places In His Testimony
He Declares He Obtained Information First-Hand by Visiting Places Mentioned and Registering
LENGTHY LIST GIVEN JURY BY COL. FELDER
He Declined to Make Public His Information—Grand Jury Begins Probe of Charges About Disorderly Houses
Decidedly the most sensational evidence submitted to the grand jury Tuesday in its investigation of vice conditions in Atlanta, which investigation is said to have grown out of the recent charges published by Colonel Thomas B. Felder and Attorney Carl Hutcheson, was the testimony of the latter.
After emerging from the grand jury room, where he remained for more than an hour, Mr. Hutcheson was charged by a battery of newspaper photographers to whom he waved his hands and gleefully exclaimed: "I gave ‘em the dope, boys!"
Later he stated that he had given the grand jury, "all told," a list of thirty places—hotels and houses where vice is permitted to flourish. He declared that he had secured his information about the places first hand; that his evidence was not based on hearsy information.
Mr. Hutcheson said he had registered at a number of the hotels where he had arranged to have women sent to his rooms. He declared he had furnished the grand jury the names under which he had registered and that his own personal evidence was sufficient to justify many indictments.
To the grand jury Mr. Hutcheson exhibited a hotel kye [sic] which he stated he had forgotten to return. He declared that he had detailed his night visits to various places which are openly violating the law.
TOLD HIS OWN STORY.
"I was allowed to tell my story in my own way," said Mr. Hutcheson, "and was interrupted by but few questions from the grand jurymen, who manifested much satisfaction over the facts which I furnished them. Frequently the jurymen gave vent to satisfied exclamations.
"I have not charged graft in the police department and was, of course, not questioned along this line. I did charge that disorderly houses were being protected if their presence was known to the police and I insisted that if the police did not have such knowledge they were incompetent.
"I cited to the grand jury instances where the police had been notified that women of bad character had moved into respectable neighborhoods and not withstanding such notification the police had not ejected them.
"I delivered the goods, and it is now up to the grand jury."
Colonel Thomas B. Felder, who was called earlier in the day, and spent about fifteen minutes in the grand jury room, was afterwards closeted for an hour with Solicitor Dorsey. Just before leaving the court house he exhibited a typewritten list of about twelve or fourteen pages which he said contained the names and addresses of persons who conducted disorderly places. Opposite each name was said to be a note of evidence.
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Short filmTranscript
00:00Grand Jury Told of Vice Conditions. Atlanta Journal Tuesday, June 3, 1913.
00:05Carl Hutchison names 30 places in his testimony. He declares he obtained information firsthand by
00:11visiting places mentioned and registering lengthy list, given jury by Caulfelder.
00:16He declined to make public his information Grand Jury begins probe of charges about disorderly
00:21houses. Decidedly, the most sensational evidence submitted to the Grand Jury Tuesday in its
00:27investigation of vice conditions in Atlanta, which investigation is said to have grown out of
00:31the recent charges published by Colonel Thomas B. Felder and Attorney Carl Hutchison, was the
00:37testimony of the latter. After emerging from the Grand Jury room, where he remained for more than
00:43an hour, Mr. Hutchison was charged by a battery of newspaper photographers, to whom he waved his
00:48hands and gleefully exclaimed, I gave them the dope, boys. Later he stated that he had given the Grand
00:54Jury, all told, a list of thirty places, hotels, and houses where vice is permitted to flourish.
01:00He declared that he had secured his information about the places firsthand, that his evidence was
01:06not based on Hersey information. Mr. Hutchison said he had registered at a number of the hotels where he
01:12had arranged to have women sent to his rooms. He declared he had furnished the Grand Jury the names
01:17under which he had registered, and that his own personal evidence was sufficient to justify many
01:22indictments. To the Grand Jury, Mr. Hutchison exhibited a Hotel Chi, which he stated he had
01:28forgotten to return. He declared that he had detailed his night visits to various places which
01:32are openly violating the law. Told his own story.
01:37I was allowed to tell my story in my own way, said Mr. Hutchison, and was interrupted by but few
01:42questions from the Grand Juryman, who manifested much satisfaction over the facts which I furnished them.
01:48Frequently the Juryman gave vent to satisfied exclamations.
01:51I have not charged graft in the police department, and was of course not questioned along this line.
01:56I did charge that disorderly houses were being protected if their presence was known to the
02:00police, and I insisted that if the police did not have such knowledge they were incompetent.
02:05I cited to the Grand Jury instances where the police had been notified that women of bad character had
02:11moved into respectable neighborhoods, and notwithstanding such notification, the police had not ejected them.
02:17I delivered the goods, and it is now up to the Grand Jury.
02:22Colonel Thomas B. Felder, who was called earlier in the day, and spent about fifteen minutes in the
02:27Grand Jury room, was afterwards closeted for an hour with Solicitor Dorsey.
02:32Just before leaving the courthouse, he exhibited a typewritten list of about twelve or fourteen pages,
02:38which he said contained the names and addresses of persons who conducted disorderly places.
02:43Opposite each name was said to be a note of evidence. Grand Jury given list.
02:48Colonel Felder declared the Grand Jury was in possession of his list, and that he did not think
02:52it would be proper for him to make it public. He was excused with the understanding that he would
02:57be at his office and would return to the Grand Jury room upon a telephone call. Colonel Felder said he
03:03would probably have some additional names for the Grand Jury by Wednesday. Mayor Woodward and Charlie C.
03:08Jones, proprietor of the Rex Saloon, were also before the Grand Jury during the morning. The
03:13Mayor is understood to have submitted considerable hearsay evidence. Jones states that he was asked
03:18what he knew about vice conditions, and replied that he did not know anything, after which he was
03:23excused. The Grand Jury remained in session for some time after Mr. Hutchison, the last witness of
03:29the day, was dismissed. It is presumed the members discussed the testimony of Mr. Hutchison,
03:34and mapped out a plan for its further investigation, which it is understood will be resumed Wednesday
03:39morning. Foreman talks. Shortly after one o'clock the Grand Jury adjourned, following which Foreman
03:45Lewis H. Beck was closeted for some time with Solicitor Dorsey. He explained to the newspaper men
03:51that the Grand Jury was working as a committee of the whole to investigate vice conditions in the city,
03:56and intimated that no indictments would be brought against persons alleged to be operating disorderly
04:02houses. It was inferred from Mr. Beck's remarks that the Grand Jury proposes to gather all the
04:08information it can and submit same in a report to the court, leaving the state and city authorities
04:13to take such action as they may deem proper upon the facts revealed. Dictograph not mentioned. Every
04:20witness who appeared before the Grand Jury declared positively that no mention of the alleged
04:24dictograph conversations was made before the Grand Jury or by the jurors. Foreman Beck, at the close of
04:30the session, declared that the dictograph incident and the charges of alleged graft in the police
04:35department had not come up for consideration, the jury dealing solely with a broad investigation of
04:40vice conditions in the city. While the foreman says he does not know what the investigation of the Grand
04:45Jury will develop, he gives no intimation that it will take up anything except the vice condition.
04:51Officials exchange views. An interesting and at times amusing three-cornered conversation occurred
04:57Tuesday morning between Colonel Thomas B. Felder, Mayor James G. Woodward, and Police Chief James L.
05:04Beavers, while they were in the ante-room of the Solicitor General's office at the courthouse awaiting
05:09to be called before the Grand Jury to testify concerning the charges of Colonel Felder and Attorney
05:14Hutchison to the effect that disorderly houses were being operated in Atlanta without police interference.
05:20This conversation related in the main to the alleged dictographed records of conversations which are said
05:26to have occurred something over a week ago between Colonel Felder, Mayor Woodward, C.C. Jones,
05:32E.O. Miles, G.C. Febuary, and A.S. Collier. Jones was present in the ante-room, as were several
05:38newspaper men and a number of courthouse attachés. The three principals were talking over the situation
05:43in a courteous but constrained manner. They appeared to be indulging in a bit of serious pleasantry,
05:48and frequently the audience, which was at times convulsed with merriment, applauded vigorously,
05:53would catch each other. Mayor Woodward started the show when addressing Chief Beavers. He said,
05:59I didn't mention either yours or Lanford's name in that alleged dictographed conversation.
06:04If I had done so, I would do it now, and I want to say to you that if I
06:08could catch you grafting,
06:09I would do so just as quick as I would catch any other official.
06:12And I would catch you too if I could, replied the Chief.
06:15Turning to Colonel Felder, Chief Beavers inquired,
06:18Did you say that I visit some woman on Garnett Street?
06:21No, I didn't, answered Colonel Felder. But I will tell sometime who did. And I want to say to you
06:27right now, in the presence of the Mayor and Jones, that I am not the attorney for any vice gang
06:31or
06:32any ring which is trying put vice back in Atlanta. Furthermore, I will stand upon a dry goods box at
06:37five points and repeat anything I have said. Beavers, didn't you say you would drive me naked through
06:42the streets of Atlanta? Such a loud volley of laughter followed this question that Colonel Felder's
06:47reply was lost. Mayor Woodward, addressing Chief Beavers,
06:51Don't you think you use some pretty sorry men in that alleged dictograph? Oh? Beavers,
06:56I don't know anything about the others, but I do know February to be a straightforward young man.
07:01Mayor Woodward, whenever he says he has a paper that will show graft in your department,
07:05he said it to me and can't deny it. It looks like he's a pretty sorrow fellow and that you
07:09wouldn't
07:09want him in your department. Colonel Felder interjected a question at this point. He said,
07:14Does your department know where Gentry is? Chief Beavers indicated that it did not.
07:19Has located Gentry. Felder, Well, I do. I located him yesterday and I know who ran him out of town.
07:24Beavers, We ought to get that man. By the way, Mr. Felder, what kind of an instrument is a dictograph?
07:30Felder, In the hands of honest people it is an accurate and effective instrument.
07:35Beavers, It told the truth in South Carolina, did it not? Felder, Yes. Nobody stood over the man there
07:41and directed him what to write into the record. I don't mean to say you did it here, but it
07:45was
07:45done. Beavers, Well, I didn't see the record when it was being transcribed. Felder, I know you didn't.
07:51You will be horrified, Chief, when you know the facts. Beavers, Well, whatever the facts are,
07:56I want to know them. Felder, It didn't appear to the people who employed Collier that he would sell
08:01out to one side as quick as he other. Beavers, I didn't know Collier before he came here.
08:07Felder, You didn't know him, but others who have nursed him along since he has been here did know
08:11him. Beavers, Well, if he is a crook, as you say, I suppose he will sell out to one side
08:16as quick as
08:17to another. Attorney Hutchison, at this juncture of the conversation, remarked to Chief Beavers that
08:21he wished he would go with him to some of the places he knew about, and which he had incorporated
08:26in a list which he was preparing. Chief Beavers was called out of the room, and after he left,
08:31Mayor Woodward spoke to Colonel Felder, saying, I don't know what I am wanted here for.
08:35To which Colonel Felder replied, The fact that you were dictographed was crime enough to bring
08:40you before any grand jury. Colonel Felder called. The conversation then lagged until Colonel Felder
08:47was summoned before the grand jury. At his request, he was the rat witness called. Just as he was
08:52leaving the ante-room, he declared to the newspaper men present that he would make some astounding
08:56revelations, but refused to indicate what his disclosures would be. He pointed to an armful of
09:02papers which he carried, and remarked that these were a part of his proof. Colonel Felder
09:07remained in the grand jury room less than fifteen minutes. It is understood that after outlining his
09:12testimony, he was excused temporarily, with the understanding that he would again be called.
09:17He remained in the ante-room. Asked dictograph probe. Although Colonel Felder declined to discuss
09:23what he said to the grand jury during his preliminary examination, or what was said to him then by the
09:28members of the grand jury, it is understood that he specifically requested that probe be made of the
09:33alleged dictograph conversations in which he is said to have figured, and which, with certain
09:38affidavits, resulted in the city detectives preferring charges against him. It is understood
09:43that Colonel Felder was advised by the grand jury that at present it had nothing whatever to do with
09:48the dictograph episode, but that it was just now chiefly concerned in ascertaining the facts concerning
09:54the alleged existence of vice in the city of Atlanta. The grand jury, it is said, reminded
10:00Colonel Felder that in his charge to it on Monday, May 5th, Judge W.D. Ellis referred indirectly to the
10:06recent vice crusade and the possible effect it would have in stimulating the opening of disorderly
10:12houses in dark and secret places after they had been removed from a certain known location.
10:17Mayor examined. Mayor Woodward followed Colonel Felder before the grand jury, and was questioned for
10:22about three quarters of an hour. After he was excused, he stated that the investigation appeared to be in
10:28the nature of a John Doe proceeding. He said he was questioned concerning the alleged existence in
10:33Atlanta of disorderly houses, and that all he told the grand jury was based upon hearsay information.
10:39The mayor would not admit, nor would he deny, that he had been interrogated concerning the
10:44allegation that graft existed in the police department. He said positively that nothing was said to him
10:50about the alleged dictographed conversations, and he could not recall that Colonel Felder's name had
10:55been mentioned in the interview. Mayor Woodward said it was evident from the questions they asked him
10:59that the jury is going very thoroughly into the vice situation in Atlanta.
11:03They asked me if it is true that the town is full of women of bad character, said he.
11:07I told them I couldn't say from my own personal knowledge, but that from information and belief.
11:12I could tell them that the town certainly is full of them.
11:15I remarked that I reckoned they knew as much as I did, whereupon they smiled, and gave me the
11:20impression that their information and belief coincided pretty nearly with mine. They asked
11:25me particularly what I knew about the hotels, and I gave them my opinion. Also, I told them I thought
11:30one thing that ought to be done, and done first, is to clean up the streets, so that ladies can
11:35walk
11:35downtown without being insulted, and I am pretty certain they agreed with me on that point.
11:43Witnesses subpoenaed. The witnesses subpoenaed by the grand jury were Colonel Thomas B. Felder,
11:49Attorney Carl Hutchison, Mayor Woodward, C.C. Jones, Police Chief Beavers, Detective Chief N.A.
11:54Lanford, and Detective John Black. A subpenha was also issued for Mrs. Nina Formby, the woman who made
12:00an affidavit to the detectives in which she admitted having conducted a rooming house, and in which she
12:05also swore that on the night of the murder of Mary Fagan Leo M. Frank, the pencil factory superintendent,
12:12repeatedly telephoned her in an effort to obtain a room to which she alleges he declared he wished
12:16to bring a girl, anticipating that the grand jury would take up the dictograph charges against Colonel
12:22Felder, Mayor Woodward, and others. Detective Chief Lanford appeared at the solicitor's office Tuesday
12:27morning with a list of witnesses which he requested to be subpented. Among them were G.C.
12:32February, A.S. Collier, George M. Gentry, J.M. Hewitt, and Detective R.S. Osborne, Solicitor's
12:39Statement. Solicitor Dorsey made it plain Tuesday morning that the investigation was being put in
12:44motion by Foreman Beck. He said he had no knowledge of its objects, and all that he knew was that
12:49Mr.
12:50Beck brought a list of witnesses to the assistant solicitor and requested that they be subpenhaed.
12:55Shortly before the grand jury convened at ten o'clock, Colonel Felder appeared at the solicitor's
13:01office with an armful of papers. To a journal reporter, he intimated that he might summon a
13:06number of witnesses. He declared that he would be able to substantiate every charge he had made.
13:11Colonel Felder, when asked for a list of his probable witnesses, replied that he did not think
13:16it would be advisable at this time to give them out.
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