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ESPN TV personality Stephen A. Smith joins the show for his take on Lebron’s next destination and the potential of teaming up with Riley again. Plus, his thoughts on Jaylen Brown getting traded to the Sixers.
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00:00Stephen A, appreciate the time. Thanks so much for it. How are you?
00:04I'm doing all right. My apologies to you and your listeners.
00:07I was supposed to be on 3 o'clock. Not your fault. That's mine.
00:10I got caught up with something. I got distracted.
00:12My apologies for being so tardy.
00:15S.A., don't apologize, brother. I've been to two of your homes.
00:18You fed me a good lunch. Brother, you could be as late as you want to.
00:22I always watch out for you, my man.
00:25I appreciate you, bro. Thanks a lot, my man. What's going on?
00:28So the big thing here is Giannis, everyone's excited about him coming to the Heat via that trade when it
00:35gets made official on July 6th.
00:37Now we're getting greedy and we're wondering, is LeBron going to be joining?
00:41How do you handicap the LeBron sweepstakes and how realistic do you think the Heat are for a return for
00:45LeBron coming back to South Beach?
00:48I don't think it's likely, but I do think it's reasonable.
00:52I mean, I'd give it about a 30% chance.
00:54I think that when you've got Giannis Antetokounmpo, Bam Adebayo, and Bobby Portis on your front line and you've just
01:01acquired Tim Hardaway Jr., it's one of those situations where you're looking at LeBron.
01:05You can conceivably be a favorite in the Eastern Conference to get to the finals.
01:08I don't think anybody would doubt that to potentially win it all.
01:12So you have to take that into consideration.
01:14Obviously, someday they'll probably erect a statue for LeBron in Miami, considering what he accomplished for the organization, not to
01:22mention the fact that, again, you know, what he's done, what he's still capable of doing, you've got to give
01:28respect where it's due.
01:29The only other side, the side that's against it, you know, he didn't depart on the greatest terms with Pat
01:35Riley, even though they're both grown men and you can move past all of that.
01:38But D-Wade is no longer there. And so what's the attraction outside of pure basketball reasons?
01:45That's a legitimate question to ask yourself about him going to Miami.
01:49But nevertheless, there are worse places to be. There are worse organizations that you could play for.
01:54There's certainly a worse coach that you could play for because Eric Spolscher is a Hall of Fame coach.
01:59Pat Riley is a Hall of Fame executive. They're first class all the way.
02:02There's a lot to love about the possibility of Miami. We just don't think that that's a likelihood, considering the
02:10options are in Cleveland, which is his home, and Golden State, where you have the greatest shooter that ever lived,
02:16which would leave LeBron James about a 45-minute ride from his family and loved ones.
02:21Those are the kind of things you've got to think about right now.
02:24And to say to that, he said money's not involved. He ain't going to take league minimum. He ain't taking
02:30$9 million, but he'll work with the money.
02:33Is it roster fit? Is it life comfort? I heard that. Then he said he wanted to compete.
02:38Rich Paul came out and said he wanted to compete for another championship.
02:41What are the legitimate hierarchy of decisions he has to make and those different things he's looking at?
02:50I think he wants to enjoy playing the game. Obviously, that involves competing and legitimately competing, but also playing with
02:56the people that he wants to play with.
02:58I certainly don't think money's a fact. He made about $52 million last year, nearly $53 million.
03:05And speaking of Bobby Marks, our capologist for ESPN yesterday, he said the most that Golden State and Miami and
03:13them can pay him is $6 million.
03:14So it's clearly not about the money, because if it were about the money, I mean, he's just not going
03:20to get what he was getting before.
03:22It's definitely about quality of life, quality of play. Those two things come into play.
03:28It's just that you don't know what's the priority for him right now.
03:32Golden State would definitely have a tougher route through the Western Conference if he were to go there with Steph
03:38Curry,
03:38particularly if they weren't able to get Anthony Davis as well, whereas it would be significantly easier in Cleveland and
03:45Miami.
03:46But who knows? I heard somebody yesterday mention the New York Knicks because he thinks he could put an additional
03:52billion dollars in his pocket
03:54if he went and represented the New York brand and even the New York City fresh off of capturing an
03:59NBA championship the first time in 53 years.
04:02So there's a lot to go into all of these decisions. I think ultimately it comes down to him being
04:08happy wherever he's going to play.
04:10And who knows what's going to make him happy at this particular moment in time outside of being near his
04:15family.
04:15And the only option that's really viable for him in his mind at this particular juncture would be Golden State.
04:21You know, because we're in Miami, Stephen A., the Riley-LeBron relationship, as you mentioned,
04:28I think the notion is that it's, you know, maybe not in the best place because of what happened at
04:35the end of 2014.
04:36But Pat Riley did tell Dan Levitard a couple months or maybe a year ago that he'd leave a key
04:42under the mat for LeBron.
04:43Wouldn't the chance to win another ring, and I'm talking not just LeBron, but Pat Riley as well,
04:48going after Giannis, putting all his chips into the middle of the table for that trade,
04:54wouldn't that opportunity for both of them supersede any previous issues from over a decade ago?
05:02One would imagine it would and that it should.
05:04We just don't know that definitively because of the parties involved.
05:08You're LeBron James. You really, really pride yourself on being in control and being able to make your own decisions.
05:14A big, big turnoff for you is having to capitulate to the wishes and desires of anybody at this particular
05:20juncture.
05:21You're entering your 24th season.
05:23You firmly established yourself as being on a Mount Rushmore.
05:26Basketball is one of the greatest players to have ever lived.
05:29You're a four-time champion.
05:30You're a four-time league MVP who still, in your 24th season, approaching age 42,
05:36is in better shape, better conditioning, with better ball skills than 95% of the league.
05:42And so when you look at it from that standpoint, you do recall and you do remember Pat Riley nitpicking
05:48a little bit.
05:49Now, let me be very, very clear.
05:50Pat Riley is the winner with it, and I love this man.
05:53I respect the hell out of him.
05:54But I've been on the record stating prior to the Giannis deal that it was time for him not to
06:00step down,
06:01but to step upstairs and be a bit deferential and give some more clout and cachet to Eric Spolster,
06:07who has earned it with his coaching acumen, his dedication and commitment to excellence,
06:13and never compromising the Miami Heat in any way.
06:15I think that Eric Spolster definitely deserved that.
06:18But then Riles went out and pulled out another thing out of his hat.
06:22From the days of getting Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway to getting Shaq,
06:26to drafting D-Wade, to ultimately getting a Jimmy Butler and what have you,
06:30this man continues to find ways to keep the Miami Heat relevant and competing for championships.
06:36They've been to two of the last six NBA finals, for crying out loud.
06:39So this is Pat Riley that we're talking about here.
06:42And for him to go out in his 80s and to pull off, getting Giannis Antetokounmpo to come to Miami,
06:48you just can't say enough about him, his greatness, and what he's accomplished.
06:52That's certainly something that has to be appreciated and revered, even by the great LeBron James.
06:58And so all of those things are things that we have to remember moving forward from a playing style.
07:03Clearly, playing for Miami is a better situation than playing for Cleveland.
07:08But in the same breath, LeBron James is very, very tight with Steph Curry.
07:14And this is the greatest shoot of God ever created, playing like a superstar at age 38.
07:20And it's not beyond the realm of comprehension that you might prefer playing with him.
07:25Because, my goodness, if you are LeBron and you have that brother to throw the basketball to,
07:30particularly if you're fortunate and lucky enough as an organization that is Golden State,
07:34to also get Anthony Davis, even though we're hearing the Wizards say they're not interested in trading him to anybody.
07:40But if you're lucky enough to pull that off, that definitely seems to be a viable option.
07:45That should be entertained.
07:46But I will not deny that I think of all the options available to LeBron James,
07:51the very best option would be the Miami Heat.
07:56But you also have that backdrop of his relationship with Pat Riley,
07:59who, by the way, was a bit too rigid, a bit too stringent.
08:03And I think we all know that we heard the whole chocolate chip story that D. Wade told,
08:07that the Miami Heat still denied to this very day, that chocolate chip cookies and stuff like that.
08:12These are, like, D. Wade would know.
08:14These are things that matter.
08:15The Miami Heat deny it.
08:16Let me be fair to them.
08:18But D. Wade and them are the ones that told the story.
08:20And I can assure you people are going to believe D. Wade before they believe the Heat organization is first
08:26class as the Heat organization is.
08:28But I think any of us that know basketball knows that based on what Golden State has to pull off,
08:34compared to what Miami has already pulled off, Miami clearly appears to be the best option.
08:41But it would keep him far away from home with his family being in L.A.
08:46And that's a challenge that we don't know that he'd be willing to embrace.
08:50Well, just so you know, Stephen H., our own Channing Crowder offered to bake LeBron cookies if he ends up
08:55wanting to come back to Miami.
08:57So we've got that settled, man.
08:58Bring him back home, brother.
09:02There's a three-fold problem with that.
09:04Number one, we don't know how well Channing Crowder breaks cookies.
09:08That's number one.
09:08Number two, we don't know if Channing will decide to eat it himself and not share it with LeBron.
09:15And number three, we don't know if Pat Riley won't have those cookies removed from the plane at his discretion,
09:24which would piss LeBron off.
09:26And Channing Crowder can't control those three scenarios.
09:28That's the problem.
09:29Here's the thing also, Stephen A., Channing's going to be hitting you up for the dough to make those cookies
09:34because, you know, he ain't paying for it.
09:36Oh, yeah, I'm tight.
09:37I feel you.
09:38I feel that.
09:39So am I.
09:40So am I.
09:40That's how you keep money.
09:42You got to be a little tight with it.
09:43Got to be a little frugal with it.
09:44That's how you don't got to spend it.
09:48You got to spend a little.
09:49Nothing wrong with spending a little bit.
09:51Just don't spend a lot of it, all of it.
09:52Don't do that.
09:53Don't do that.
09:54And Stephen A., basketball-wise, just explain this to me.
09:57This is a question that goes on down here.
09:58When we got Giannis, and we already have Bam, your number one and number two options are paint-dominant players.
10:05And they got Tim Hardaway Jr.
10:06You know what I'm saying?
10:07They put some Bobby Portis.
10:09I don't know if he's a great shooter.
10:10How does this work out?
10:11Can you see this looking right with those two big dudes in the middle?
10:15Well, yes, I do.
10:17I do.
10:18And here's why.
10:20Giannis is not some post-back-to-the-basket player offensively like that.
10:25He is lethal in the open court.
10:28But he's got you reeling downhill all the time because that's how he's coming, like a locomotive.
10:34Bam out of bio.
10:35Ken scores a 20-10 player, evidenced by his 83 points, even though that was an extreme aberration because that's
10:40not his game.
10:41But the other side to it, he's a 20-10 player, an all-star, and both of them are elite
10:47defensively.
10:48So you're automatically going to be one of the best defensive units in the game.
10:52So you got that out the way.
10:54What you need is guard play.
10:56What you need is somebody to run the show, okay, and run the show in a way from a very,
11:02very experienced standpoint that, you know, what you're able to do, what you need to do.
11:08They need to build a bench, but also their backcourt.
11:11That's a challenge.
11:12But if anybody could pull it off, it's the Miami Heat.
11:14And I think that nobody knows that better than LeBron James.
11:18Wrapping up with Stephen A. Smith, Stephen A., I'm a white guy.
11:21I was not offended by your comments yesterday, but you did receive a lot of criticism.
11:26How do you respond to that criticism?
11:28First of all, what else is new?
11:30When I care, I'll let you know because I don't care.
11:33That's what comes with it.
11:35The bottom line is this.
11:36They're trying to make it into a race thing.
11:39I'm talking basketball.
11:40You know, obviously, there have been phenomenal white players in NBA history, Larry Bird being first amongst them, Jerry West,
11:48John Stockton, Dirk Nowitzki, and so many others, Steve Nash and others.
11:52What I was simply pointing out was factual, which is this.
11:56There is no team in NBA history outside of the Minneapolis Lakers from 1949 to 1955 that have looked at
12:07three white players and said, you are the preeminent faces of our franchises.
12:13You are the stars, and we're paying you all the money.
12:17That has never happened.
12:18It didn't happen with the Boston Celtics from the days of Bill Russell.
12:21It didn't happen with the Los Angeles Lakers from the days of Wilt Chamberlain and, you know, Jerry West to
12:28Magic and Kareem and Worthy and all of these guys.
12:32It didn't happen with the Celtics, with Larry Bird and McHale because Paris and Dennis Johnson was there.
12:37It didn't happen with, you know, in the 90s, okay, with Jordan and the crew.
12:42It didn't happen with the Pistons, with Isaiah and Dumas, with Joe Lambia, Bill Lambia and those guys.
12:47It didn't happen with the Lakers at the end of the 90s when they were sitting back and looking at
12:52things and saying, okay, we're going to go in a different direction, and it's Shaq and Kobe with others.
12:57It didn't happen with the Spurs who had Manu Genovi but had Tim Duncan and Tony Parker to pair with
13:02them and David Robinson before that.
13:04It didn't happen, you know, with the Miami Heat.
13:07It didn't happen, you know, with LeBron and D. Wade.
13:11It didn't happen with the Spurs again.
13:13It didn't happen with the Golden State Warriors, with Steph and Klay, and then after that, it was, you know,
13:20Kevin Durant joining them.
13:21It didn't happen with Toronto and Kawhi.
13:23It didn't happen with Boston, with Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
13:27It didn't happen with the Knicks, with Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns.
13:31There is no place in NBA history where you have seen three white guys as the stars leading you to
13:41an NBA championship.
13:42That is just a fact.
13:44And so what I was saying was, with these brothers out here today and how prideful and egotistical they are
13:52and how much they believe they are worth and that they've been shortchanged.
13:56And then even when you see a guy like Cooper Flagg, again, I call him Super Flagg.
14:01He's phenomenal.
14:03Conconificant ball.
14:05You see Luka Doncic.
14:06We know what he can bring.
14:07But they ain't playing together.
14:09The fact is, you haven't seen a team assembled in the NBA in the modern era spanning more than a
14:16half century that evolved the entire nucleus of their team around three white guys.
14:24That is a fact.
14:26That is what I was pointing out.
14:28If somebody wants to say pointing that out is racist, I would say, okay, then you don't care about talking
14:34about basketball history.
14:35I didn't say this about baseball.
14:37I didn't say this about football.
14:38I didn't say this about boxing.
14:40I didn't say this about the UFC.
14:41I certainly didn't say it about tennis, golf, NASCAR.
14:45I'm talking basketball.
14:47In the sport of basketball, that is 70 plus percent black.
14:53It is a fact that that has not happened.
14:56If people have a problem with that, that's their problem.
15:00I'm not backtracking from it one bit.
15:02I'm not changing my position.
15:04It is a fact.
15:06What I'm saying, folks are going to have to deal with that reality.
15:09Last one for me, Stephen A. Smith.
15:11I know you've got to run soon.
15:13Jalen Brown, the aftermath of that trade, what does it do for Philly and your reaction on what happened with
15:18Boston there at the end?
15:21Well, I was proven right again.
15:24I pointed out a couple of years ago how he wasn't necessarily liked, and it wasn't his fault.
15:33He's smart, pretty brilliant, I might add, philanthropic, a phenomenal player, arguably the best two-way player in basketball.
15:41This is what he brings to the table, yet the Boston Celtics, every time they talked about trading somebody, it
15:46was always him, and it was never Jason Tatum.
15:48And Jason Tatum, I talked about this, and you remember a couple of years ago, Jalen Brown was all about
15:54state your source, state your source.
15:55Well, who the hell gives you their sources?
15:57The fact is that what I said was absolutely true.
16:00They proved it because even after, even after they beat Dallas in the finals, and he was a champion in
16:09an Eastern Conference and an NBA Finals MVP,
16:12Jason Tatum goes down.
16:15Jalen Brown follows that up after signing for $304 million and shows you he's worthy of being number one, averaging
16:2128 a game, being the best two-way player in the game.
16:24And they still talked about trading him.
16:27Well, why?
16:28Because their attitude is that this guy, as great as he is, he can be a bit difficult.
16:36I didn't say he was difficult for me.
16:38I said they were saying he was difficult for them.
16:41Why?
16:42Because people watch the league.
16:44I cover it.
16:45I talk to people, agents, players, coaches, GMs, owners.
16:52I know these people because I've been covering it for 30 years.
16:56So, you know, don't kill the messenger.
16:58And sure enough, what happens is with all of this noise and he comes back and his dad comes back
17:04and everybody's making noise about stuff while not refuting the facts.
17:08I said, okay, here's the bottom line.
17:11He wants to be number one.
17:13He doesn't want to have to defer to anybody else.
17:17That's why he doesn't mind being moved out of Boston.
17:20He never asked for a trade, but he never had a problem with being moved because this whole thing was
17:25I'm going to show you who I am and what I'm worth and what I bring to the table.
17:28And then he brought it to the table this year, averaging 28 a game, but they got bounced out in
17:34the first round to Philly after surrendering a 3-1 lead.
17:3924 hours after losing in the postseason, in the first round, he goes on his Twitch account with the cameras
17:48rolling and says that was his favorite season.
17:50Now, you can say that if you're the Memphis Grizzlies, you can say that if you're the Sacramento Kings, you
17:56can't say that if you're a Boston Celtics.
17:59How do you think they feel?
18:00They got 18 banners hanging from their rafters.
18:02They don't want to hear that, which is what I said.
18:06I said, that is not something that you can say and think that Boston Celtics fans are going to be
18:13okay with that.
18:13And all of a sudden, this brouhaha develops because, oh, my goodness, he's coming at Stephen A, and he cussed
18:20out at Stephen A.
18:21But please, I'm a grown-ass man.
18:23That don't faze me.
18:25Say what you got to say.
18:26It doesn't change the fact.
18:28And the facts are you're a phenomenal player.
18:30You're a 1A kind of guy.
18:32You're a champion and an MVP and one of the best players in the world.
18:37And with all of that said, it still didn't stop them from saying, fresh off an Achilles tear with Jason
18:44Tatum, only able to come back for about 20 games.
18:47They're getting hurt again in the postseason where you had to finish up the season because he couldn't go.
18:55You lost.
18:57And they still said, we'd rather have Jason Tatum than you.
19:02Now, that may not be fair, but that was the reality of the Boston Celtics, which is why they traded
19:08him.
19:09And where's the proof?
19:10They didn't just trade him, fellas.
19:12They didn't just trade him within the conference.
19:15They traded him within the division to their rival Philadelphia 76ers just to get him up out of there and
19:23to get themselves two first-round picks, two second-round picks,
19:27and a player that's seven years older that is a shell of what he used to be and certainly a
19:34shell of the player that Jalen Brown is.
19:36That is who the Boston Celtics traded him for, who looks right now.
19:44Stephen A., on the way out here, Channing Crowder admitted to us about a week and a half ago, two
19:50weeks ago, that he eats dinner in bed every single night.
19:54He cooks his dinner like a three-course meal and then will sit his ass in his bed and eat
20:03his dinner.
20:03He claims more people do this than we give him credit for.
20:08It's comfortable, S.A.
20:09You know, I only sit on the couch and the table.
20:12It's comfy.
20:13There's a lot of people that eat dinner in bed.
20:15I certainly do sometimes, no doubt about it.
20:17Now, I'm not going to leave stuff there in bed and go to sleep.
20:22I'm going to get my ass up and take it to the sink and take it to the garbage or
20:25the garbage disposal and make sure I clean up after myself.
20:29But damn right, I'll eat in bed sometimes.
20:31But you know what?
20:32When you're Channing Crowder, you can do what the hell you want to do.
20:34Former NFL player, obviously incredibly nice.
20:37You know, you got a guy that's doing a great, great job on the Pivot podcast with his boys.
20:42And on top of it all, you know, I've grown to have a lot of love for Channing.
20:46Channing is honest as they come.
20:48He's good people.
20:49He's very knowledgeable about sports.
20:51He's very, very fair-minded.
20:53And most importantly, if he's got something to say to you, he will say it to your face.
20:57You ain't got to wonder about where the hell he stands.
20:59He would tell you he's my kind of guy.
21:01So I got a lot of love for Channing.
21:03A lot of love.
21:04I say Stephen A got me on ESPN.
21:07He had a lot of checking off to do to get me on the show.
21:11But Stephen A, people always come to me because they've seen us on the Pivot together.
21:16And they want to criticize or argue with me about points you make.
21:19Just let me know if my answer is correct.
21:22He said what he said.
21:23He doesn't mince words.
21:25He's very intelligent.
21:26It's no question what he meant.
21:28And that's what he meant.
21:29That's what I tell everybody about your opinions.
21:33Yeah.
21:33And the only thing that I would add to that is that I'm open-minded, which means I'm open
21:38to being corrected.
21:39I'm not offended for somebody telling me I'm wrong.
21:41I'm not offended for somebody showing me why I'm wrong.
21:44What offends me is when they do that and then try to personally attack me.
21:49Like, oh my goodness, you can't disagree with what I say and leave it at that.
21:53It's got to be an attack on my character.
21:55Why?
21:55Because you disagree with what I said?
21:57If I was like that on national television and with the national platforms that I have,
22:01how unfair would that be to countless human beings in the world?
22:05I'm capable of saying I don't agree with that while still respecting somebody and the work
22:11that they put in every day and understanding that I might disagree with that point, but I'm
22:16not being disagreeable and I don't disagree with him as a person or her as a person because
22:21they're good people.
22:22We just don't happen to vibe on this particular subject matter.
22:24Last time I checked, that's what grownups are supposed to be about.
22:27And that's what I pride myself on being.
22:29And I'll also say, if people read your book, Straight Schroeder, if they have an issue with
22:34you or gripe with you about something you said, I think they'll have a greater appreciation
22:36for you.
22:37Because I don't read a lot of books, Stephen A. That was a phenomenal book that you wrote.
22:42Thank you, man.
22:42I appreciate it.
22:43I wrote it myself from start to finish.
22:45Did the audio book as well.
22:46Some people have questioned whether I wrote it or not.
22:48Like, I'm going to lie about writing a book.
22:51Some people are just ridiculous.
22:52With some of the stuff they make up.
22:54It's like, I've been a journalist my entire career and I'm going to make up writing a
22:58book.
22:58Do you know what, do you have any idea who would, how many people would have dimed me
23:03out if I didn't write the book and I said I wrote the book, but I didn't.
23:07Are you kidding me?
23:08This is just ridiculous.
23:09But people are going to be what they are because people try to make headlines anytime they
23:13can because some people don't have real jobs.
23:15They look for clickbait because that's the only way they can make money.
23:18And they don't look at themselves and how they messed up their own futures and instead
23:23want to point to, you know, changing times and stuff like that.
23:26But we got a lot of trifling people out here in this business and y'all got to watch
23:29yourselves just like I watch.
23:31I watch myself because some people just ain't shit.
23:33Excuse my language.
23:34And that's just the way it goes.
23:36Stephen A.
23:37What a way to wrap it.
23:39Big bro.
23:40Love you, big bro.
23:42Always.
23:43Same here, bro.
23:44Y'all.
23:44I'll talk to y'all soon.
23:45Take it easy, fellas.
23:46Yep.
23:46There you go.
23:47Stephen A.
23:48Smith joining us at Hockman, Crowder, and Salada will come on back right after these
23:51short messages.
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