- 12 hours ago
Grant & Danny discuss Cade Cavalli's comment to Wilson Contreras and the context around the entire situation.
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00:00last night with the benches clearing and a skirmish, we'll call it.
00:05It wasn't quite a brawl, but it was a something.
00:08Cade Cavalli and Wilson Contreras.
00:11So I guess first things first, I will say,
00:14there are a lot of layers to this conversation, okay?
00:18I want to try to just state the layers that we have, Danny.
00:22You and I can put everything on the table,
00:23and then we can go back through and provide proper nuance and context,
00:28which I think is necessary, because there's plenty of it.
00:30Everyone wants this to just be one thing or the other, or black and white, and it's not.
00:34There is gray area, there is nuance here.
00:37So, first thing I will say as a layer.
00:39You cannot properly talk about this and contextualize this
00:44if you do not discuss Wilson Contreras' reputation in Major League Baseball.
00:49Fair?
00:49Yeah.
00:50One of Major League Baseball's most volatile agitators,
00:54one of the most brash, bad boy instigator type players in the entire sport,
01:00and that was 100% a factor in what happened.
01:05I don't think Cade Cavalli would have yelled probably the way he did at any other player,
01:10because I don't think that player the day before would have taken 14 seconds
01:14to get from home plate to first base on a home run,
01:16or would have run in front of him and brushed him and kind of cut him off
01:19in the middle of the infield, which you don't see baseball players do.
01:23But when you're the guy that tries to get under people's skin
01:26and doesn't have a problem irritating opponents,
01:28favorite player in your own clubhouse,
01:30least favorite player in the opposing clubhouse,
01:32there's a very, like, hockey instigator element to Wilson Contreras.
01:37He plays, like, blurring the line constantly.
01:41His second benches-clearing situation this week, by the way,
01:44his third since May.
01:46I don't think you can properly talk about this without at least acknowledging
01:49this was not Williur Abreu.
01:51This was not even Jaron Duran, who's had his own issues in the past.
01:55This was the guy that, like, when the bench is clear in Major League Baseball
01:59on any given night, there's a 14% chance Wilson Contreras is involved.
02:03Numbers are approximate, but yeah.
02:04I mean, that's who the guy is now.
02:06Great player.
02:06A really, really good player.
02:08He's Boston's best hitter.
02:09Coming off a 30-homer season last year in St. Louis.
02:12Stud player.
02:13He's the centerpiece of that lineup.
02:14He's the engine, makes him go, et cetera.
02:16And that's the personality, right?
02:18You employ someone like that because you probably want that to a degree.
02:22The guy that's going to, you know, the phrase that you use from hockey
02:24that we kind of now, it bleeds in other sports is,
02:28he's the drag-in of the fight guy.
02:29Meaning, I'm not sure I wanted to do this today, but Wilson's doing it,
02:32so here I go.
02:33And that's part of the deal.
02:34But that, to me, is the story, and anything that comes from that is ancillary.
02:41A.K.A., if you would like to be brash, be me first, to make a big production,
02:49and somebody responds to you, we cannot be the victim.
02:54Right there.
02:55So if he just sprinted around the bases with his head down,
02:58shook his teammates' hands, and there's no choreographed dance,
03:01and he took a normal path home, and Cade Cavalli,
03:04seeming out of nowhere, even if there was some verbiage exchange or something,
03:08and somewhere, yells what he yells, then you'd go,
03:10what are you doing, guy?
03:11I know exactly what he's doing.
03:13Because those things happened.
03:14Right.
03:14This is the dude that invited attention.
03:17Once attention's invited, and you got attention.
03:18It is possible that he did not mean to cut off Cade Cavalli.
03:21Very unlikely.
03:22It is possible that he didn't mean to rush him,
03:24and that it was completely random.
03:25But when you are Wilson Contreras,
03:27you're kind of guilty of being Wilson Contreras a little bit.
03:30Like, it is possible that Draymond Green didn't accidentally step on you
03:35as he got past you to go to the other side of the floor.
03:38But when it's Draymond, the assumption is what?
03:40The guy that has stepped on people 14 times,
03:42that's kicked people in the nuts,
03:44that's punched Jordan Poole in the face,
03:46whatever other things there were.
03:47Like, maybe he meant to step on you, right?
03:49So there's a little bit of...
03:51I guess it's possible that he's telling the truth,
03:53and he didn't mean anything by it.
03:54But he did a thing that you never see anybody do,
03:56that you're not really supposed to do,
03:58that doesn't really happen in baseball.
03:59It's odd behavior.
04:00If you turn left like that,
04:01it's almost 90 degrees.
04:03Were you veered?
04:04If you happened to be in your path,
04:05and you're in your own head and kind of jogging,
04:06oh my God, I was in the way of the guy.
04:08I would never do that.
04:08He took a left.
04:10Impossible for me to believe.
04:11By the way, less than 24 hours after,
04:15the single longest time after a home run
04:18to get to first base of the baseball season,
04:20in a random June game between a bad Boston team
04:23and a mediocre Washington team,
04:24like it was Game 7 of the World Series.
04:26Other incidents he's been involved in,
04:28and I mentioned there have been three since May.
04:302019 against the Pirates,
04:31Chris Archer hit him,
04:32benches clear.
04:332022 against the Brewers,
04:35hit by pitch,
04:36led to a scene.
04:3624 against the Padres,
04:38hit by pitch,
04:38Nick Pavetta,
04:39benches cleared.
04:402025 against the Brewers,
04:42Brandon Woodruff,
04:42hit by pitch,
04:43benches cleared.
04:442026 against the Twins,
04:46collision at home plate,
04:47that was this year in May,
04:48benches cleared.
04:492026 against the Yankees,
04:51this was this week,
04:51by the way,
04:52Will Warren didn't hit him,
04:53just threw a couple pitches off the plate in.
04:56Wilson Contreras immediately screamed at him,
04:58yelled at him,
04:58called him all kinds of names,
04:59running down to first base.
05:01Luckily,
05:02while the benches cleared,
05:03nothing happened,
05:03and cooler heads prevailed.
05:05And then there was last night.
05:06That was just a quick search via AI.
05:08That's seven things where benches have cleared,
05:10and he's been in the middle of it in his career.
05:13So that's layer number one I'm going to set to the side.
05:16Contreras,
05:16lightning rod,
05:17you know,
05:17a,
05:18basically a high wire act,
05:19okay?
05:20Number two,
05:22what is going on right now in Venezuela,
05:24which was brought into the equation
05:25when he celebrated the home run the way that he did.
05:29So I'm going to add this to the discussion
05:31for further context,
05:32do with it what you'd like.
05:33I tweeted the video
05:35after game one of,
05:37during game one actually,
05:38but after his home run,
05:39of the 14 second clip of him celebrating the home run.
05:42Now,
05:43here's where Danny and I have always disagreed.
05:44You hate celebrating and pimping home runs.
05:46Yes.
05:47You think it's Bush League bad,
05:48I'll let you use your own words,
05:50but you are adamantly against it.
05:52As someone who played college baseball
05:53and played baseball at a high level,
05:55hit almost 40 homers in division one.
05:58I happen to have no problem with backflipping,
06:01with celebrating,
06:01with admiring your work,
06:03with standing at home plate
06:04and watching the ball leave the park.
06:05I don't.
06:06I never have,
06:06never will.
06:07I do think there is a line,
06:09and that's where it gets hard.
06:10Like,
06:11you know it when you see it.
06:12If you fake throw a pin,
06:14and you know,
06:14you throw the rosin bag,
06:15and you army crawl all the way around the bases,
06:17that's a little too far.
06:18So if we agree there,
06:19then somewhere there's a line,
06:20and we've got to figure out what it is.
06:22The celebration he had,
06:24after his home run in game one,
06:26to me,
06:27clearly passed what is a normal threshold.
06:29So I tweeted as much.
06:30I'm like,
06:31this is a lot for a June game.
06:32Now,
06:33I will raise my hand and say,
06:35I did not consider
06:36what was going on in Venezuela,
06:38and the heavy heart that he was playing with.
06:40You know,
06:40ending later,
06:41I think he got seen in the dugout,
06:42like,
06:43sobbing,
06:44and clearly,
06:44for those of you that haven't been following,
06:46you know the news.
06:46I'm referencing the horrible tragedy,
06:48the earthquakes,
06:49the feelings he must have emotionally.
06:51I'm sure family
06:53was
06:54involved
06:54at
06:55best,
06:56and he's lost loved ones,
06:57possibly.
06:58Family and friends at worst.
07:00You know,
07:00homes destroyed.
07:00I'm empathetic to this.
07:02I can not really relate,
07:03if I'm being honest,
07:04but I am trying my best to,
07:06and I don't know what that's like,
07:07to be somewhere else,
07:08and your home is in shambles.
07:11You know,
07:12your home country is having this terrible time.
07:14We actually work with someone here
07:15who reached out to me last night on Instagram
07:17from the station,
07:18who is Venezuelan,
07:19and she's like,
07:20you have to cut him a brick.
07:21You have no idea what we're feeling,
07:23like,
07:23every day walking around right now,
07:24not being able to be your family,
07:26and so I've been thinking a lot about that,
07:28and I'm going to add this to the conversation
07:32that,
07:33yes,
07:33I think his celebration was over the top
07:36probably because of that,
07:37as he's yelling Venezuela going to first.
07:39Now,
07:39that having been said,
07:40this is a guy whose celebrations
07:41are normally like an 8 out of 10,
07:43as it is.
07:43It happened to be turned up to 10,
07:45and,
07:46you know,
07:46cutting off Cavalli,
07:47I don't think that had anything to do
07:49with what's going on in Venezuela.
07:50Perhaps it did,
07:52but I think two things can be true.
07:54I am going to be empathetic of that.
07:56It's a terrible situation.
07:57I'm going to give him some grace for that.
07:59Also,
07:59William Abreu is dealing with that too.
08:01Kbert Ruiz is dealing with that too,
08:03and I don't think that gives you carte blanche
08:05just that nothing matters anymore.
08:07So,
08:07I know that sounds gruff,
08:10but I think both of those things
08:11can be true in a sense.
08:12I'm trying to be empathetic to that.
08:13No,
08:13and I appreciate that,
08:14but again,
08:15there is,
08:19does that mean anybody gets carte blanche
08:21to do whatever they want?
08:22I mean,
08:22think of a tragedy of losing a teammate
08:23as Dee Gordon did.
08:25That's what it's supposed to look like to me
08:27where you Homer,
08:28and I forgot that doesn't Homer,
08:30Dee Gordon gets around the bases,
08:31is breaking down in tears,
08:32is hugging teammates,
08:33and it's emotional,
08:35and it's like,
08:35oh my God,
08:35this release,
08:36this is unfathomable
08:38that my friend is gone,
08:39and here I am,
08:40this 130-pound soaking wet dude,
08:42I just Homered
08:43the first game
08:44after we lose
08:45Jose Fernandez.
08:47You see what I'm saying?
08:47Yes.
08:48Now,
08:48how beholden are we now?
08:50The tragedy is very real,
08:51and nothing I'm saying
08:52diminishes that.
08:53Should umpires now act accordingly?
08:55In other words,
08:55is a strike now a ball
08:56because it's Wilson Contreras?
08:58Should he,
08:58if he's out at first,
08:59should he be safe
09:00just because we feel so bad?
09:01If you're between the lines,
09:03you're responsible for a behavior
09:04between the lines.
09:05And again,
09:05I understand he's playing
09:06with a lot of emotion.
09:07So too was,
09:08you know,
09:08Brett Favre when he lost his father
09:10on Monday Night Football.
09:10Should defensive backs
09:11drop interceptions on purpose
09:13or be letting wide receivers run free
09:15so it can be a great story?
09:16My point is,
09:17once you enter the arena,
09:20so to speak,
09:21and again,
09:21it's not real gladiators,
09:22it's sports,
09:22you're still now part of the rules
09:25and part of the fabric
09:25and part of who we are.
09:27And so it's a long way of saying
09:28I can have two things happen.
09:29One,
09:30sympathy for the situation,
09:32which is jaw-dropping,
09:34and as you said,
09:35I can't really relate to that.
09:36But also,
09:38again,
09:38you've now
09:41drawn
09:42the eye.
09:43You've drawn extra attention to yourself.
09:44If you are overcome with emotion
09:46when you get back to the dugout,
09:47by all means,
09:47hug a teammate
09:48and you can break down.
09:49I have empathy for that.
09:51You take 14 seconds,
09:52you throw,
09:53what is throwing the bat
09:5450 feet into the air
09:56like it's a javelin
09:58have anything to do
09:59with your heavy heart?
10:01To me,
10:01it doesn't relate.
10:02The release of emotions.
10:04I'm trying to play devil's advocate
10:06because I thought it was over the top
10:07of a guy who's been through it,
10:09been through the ringer.
10:09Again,
10:10William Abreu is Venezuelan,
10:11Cabert Ruiz is Venezuelan.
10:13They're also going through
10:14some of these things,
10:14but he is an incredibly emotional guy
10:16normally.
10:17And if everyone turns it up two notches,
10:18his now goes to 11
10:19because he's already one of the
10:21big celebrator,
10:22agitator,
10:23brash guys in the sport
10:24as it is,
10:24right?
10:24But I think it was just a,
10:27like a release of emotion
10:29and we see it in the World Baseball Classic.
10:31You're referencing Dee Gordon,
10:32how he does it the way you like it.
10:34Every culture plays baseball differently
10:35and in Venezuela,
10:36they're going to play differently
10:37than we play here
10:38and what have you.
10:39Oftentimes,
10:40you know,
10:40in Major League Baseball,
10:41it's reeled in,
10:42but for that moment,
10:43it wasn't.
10:43And my point when I tweeted that,
10:45why I hadn't thought about
10:45the Venezuela element was
10:48that might be true.
10:50The Nationals are still not going
10:52to like this very much.
10:53It is still one of those things
10:54that it's probably not going
10:55to go over great.
10:56I'm just saying that
10:57I don't think he acts
10:58the way he did necessarily
10:59to that extent
11:00after that homer
11:01if what happened in Venezuela
11:03this week doesn't happen.
11:04You immediately saw him
11:05scream Venezuela,
11:06you see him sobbing
11:06on the bench thereafter.
11:09There's clearly major emotions
11:10at play.
11:11But that was not what was cited
11:12by Cade Cavalli
11:13last night after the game
11:15as to what led to
11:16the benches clearing.
11:17And that gets us kind of
11:18to the third element
11:19of this year,
11:20which was the comment
11:21made by Cade Cavalli
11:23where he struck out
11:25Wilson Contreras
11:26and yelled
11:27sit down boy.
11:29And the racial connotations
11:31of boy
11:33had he have said
11:35sit down MF-er.
11:37I don't think there's a
11:39you know,
11:40think piece is being written
11:41today in a gigantic
11:42conversation to have.
11:43I guess it would have been
11:44better to say
11:44sit down B.
11:46I'd imagine there are people
11:47that wouldn't like that either,
11:49but I think that would have
11:50been a better word choice
11:50based on what we found out.
11:51Sit down a-hole.
11:53Like he could have come out
11:54with a statement today
11:55where he apologized and said
11:56I didn't mean it
11:56in a racially charged way
11:58and that certainly wasn't
11:59what I was thinking.
12:00I was within the confines
12:01of a sports environment
12:02and I was just being
12:04sports demeaning.
12:05You block a shot
12:06of your buddy
12:06while playing
12:07pickup basketball
12:07and you throw his shot
12:08and you tell your boy
12:10get out of here boy.
12:11I think he was trying
12:12to say it more like that
12:14than the racial connotations
12:15of you're just looking
12:17at this as if two guys
12:18are on the street.
12:18White dude said
12:19to minority person boy
12:21which has been
12:22in every movie
12:22you've ever seen
12:23with any kind of racial tension
12:24since the beginning of time
12:25it has a certain meaning.
12:27If Kate Gavali
12:28would have come out
12:28and said
12:29I didn't mean boy
12:30in that context
12:31but I want everyone
12:32to know I should have
12:33called him a bleep
12:34or an a-hole
12:35or whatever it is.
12:36Yeah, I should have said
12:37I think he was basically saying
12:39after the home run thing
12:41yesterday
12:41and then you cut me off
12:43and by the way
12:43it's not like he got called up
12:44to the big leagues
12:45two days ago
12:45and it's just those two incidents.
12:46He has a long reputation
12:48of being this guy
12:49in the sport, right?
12:51So that is another part of this
12:53but I think we have to
12:53also then acknowledge
12:55that what he said
12:57the actual phrase
12:58sit down boy
12:59has plenty of people
13:01feeling
13:02very differently
13:03and all kinds of different ways
13:05based on your life experiences
13:06who you are
13:07how you've lived
13:08and that's part of this too.
13:10If he would have said
13:11sit down Wilson
13:14I don't think this is anything
13:16other than
13:16what an overreaction
13:17by Contreras
13:18and by the way
13:18he still would have come out
13:19and he still would have
13:20I don't think
13:21he would have chucked the helmet
13:21I don't think
13:22he would have lost his mind
13:23the way that he did
13:24I think that was because
13:25he called him boy probably
13:26but trust me
13:27he would have gotten
13:27his money's worth
13:28he wouldn't have just
13:28heard that
13:29and walked to the dugout
13:30that's not how he operates.
13:32Yeah, it's
13:34the
13:36the idea
13:36like again
13:37if you read the transcript
13:38it reads a certain way
13:40I'm sorry
13:41this isn't
13:42the
13:42you know
13:43an HR meeting
13:44I'm sorry
13:44this isn't the way
13:45the normal workplace
13:46operates
13:47but if
13:48if it's a hard and fast rule
13:50that the
13:50the work never be used
13:52we've got a lot of
13:52baseball shadow
13:53that needs to go away
13:54you know how many times
13:54a teammate has said
13:55attaboy
13:56oh my god
13:57what have you done
13:58it's baseball
13:59this is how
14:00people talk to each other
14:01in baseball
14:03and
14:04it is a
14:05to me it's comical
14:06so again
14:07paint Contreras
14:07as anything other
14:08than the aggressor
14:10it's a comical
14:11to make him somehow
14:11the victim
14:12in all of this
14:13again
14:13this is
14:14this is a
14:14him
14:15production
14:16it's the
14:17all the other
14:17incidents that you
14:18read out
14:18that involve
14:19Contreras
14:19what was the
14:20common theme
14:21physical contact
14:21or hit by pitch
14:22hit by pitch
14:23hit by pitch
14:23had Cade Cavalli
14:25thrown at him
14:26the way that
14:26a Hunter Strickland
14:27would have
14:28the way that
14:30Jonathan Papelbond
14:30would have
14:31I'd have the same
14:31reaction to Bryce
14:32Herper right years ago
14:33I'd go
14:33that's so tired
14:34you're annoyed
14:35at the guy
14:35because he homered
14:36and then cut you off
14:36so now you're
14:37throwing a 99 mile an hour
14:38death rock
14:39towards him
14:40grow up dude
14:41compete
14:42Cavalli did what
14:43you're supposed to do
14:44in my view
14:44he competed
14:45and then the guy
14:46that drew attention
14:47to himself
14:47received some
14:48attention
14:48that's it
14:49if Cade Cavalli's
14:51heart
14:51and it's very easy
14:52to tell
14:52if this is
14:54a different context
14:55a different place
14:55a different time
14:56it's incredibly easy
14:57to tell
14:58if he had that
14:59what's being alleged
15:00or overtone
15:01this racist intent
15:02this is a
15:04you chirp
15:05you draw attention
15:06to yourself
15:06sit your ass down
15:07that's all that was
15:09yeah so for me
15:11I always struggle
15:12with the
15:16comparisons
15:16or trying to be
15:18analogous
15:18in evaluating
15:20sport
15:21with real life
15:22okay
15:23it's like my
15:24favorite movie
15:24ever
15:25I would say
15:26is Remember the Titans
15:27it's that and the Departed
15:28I can quote
15:29Remember the Titans
15:31essentially from start
15:32to finish
15:32and I'm quite sure
15:34there are scenes
15:35in that movie
15:36where there were
15:37horrible people
15:38in Alexandria
15:38Virginia
15:39in the early
15:391970s
15:41who would tell
15:42Petey the running
15:43back or Julius
15:44the linebacker
15:45or any of my
15:45other favorite
15:45players on the
15:46T.C. Williams
15:47Titans in that film
15:48get on boy
15:49you can't eat here
15:51like that
15:51disgusting
15:52racial
15:54awful
15:55clear meaning
15:56of white
15:57person telling
15:58minority person
16:00that degrading
16:01like calling
16:02them a boy
16:02I understand
16:03the history
16:04probably not to
16:05the extent
16:06as a 37
16:07year old
16:08white
16:08if I'm being
16:09frank
16:10as some of
16:11our listeners
16:11but I get
16:12the idea
16:13that
16:13saying boy
16:14is not okay
16:15in that context
16:18my question
16:19rhetorically
16:20is
16:21they're going
16:22back and forth
16:22it's like an
16:23S talking
16:24one-on-one
16:24basketball game
16:25and someone
16:26gets a bucket
16:27and is like
16:28what now boy
16:31that's the same
16:32thing
16:33I feel like
16:34we're acting
16:34like he walked
16:35into a restaurant
16:36and like told
16:37Wilson
16:37you know
16:38called Wilson
16:38Contreras
16:39he can't sit
16:39here
16:39it's
16:42if the point
16:43is he just
16:44can't say that
16:45word
16:46because of who
16:47he is
16:48and how he
16:49looks
16:49and who
16:50Wilson Contreras
16:51is and how
16:51he looks
16:52I am willing
16:53to have that
16:53conversation
16:54and to listen
16:55to that
16:55discussion
16:56that is not
16:57the perspective
16:57that I had
16:58when I watched
16:59that last night
16:59I saw
17:01dude who
17:02gave a lot
17:03out
17:03being chirped
17:05in a sports
17:06way
17:06a normal
17:07sports way
17:08not being
17:10able to
17:10handle that
17:11but again
17:12this is one
17:13of the many
17:13layers we'll
17:14be discussing
17:14I do want
17:15to open up
17:15the phones
17:16on this
17:16800-636-1067
17:19if you want
17:19to jump in
17:20800-636-1067
17:22Cade Cavalli
17:23has apologized
17:24in fact
17:24Paul Toboni
17:25apparently
17:26talked to him
17:27about the use
17:28of that term
17:29and that
17:30it needs
17:30to be taken
17:31out of his
17:31lexicon
17:32we can discuss
17:32that as well
17:33the Nationals
17:34putting out
17:35big statements
17:35today at Fenway Park
17:37they take two
17:38games
17:38lost amid this
17:39by the way
17:40that was the Cavalli
17:41we have been
17:42waiting for
17:42since he was
17:43drafted in the
17:43first round
17:4613 strikeouts
17:46one hit ball
17:48he was perfect
17:49after that
17:49retired 19 straight
17:50didn't allow
17:51another batter
17:51to reach
17:52and the Nats
17:52outscored
17:53Boston 18
17:54to nothing
17:55after that
17:56until the
17:57eighth inning
17:57today
17:5718 to 2
17:58for the rest
17:59of the series
17:59so in a lot
18:00of ways
18:01it almost
18:01served like
18:01a Tom
18:02Wilson fight
18:02in the middle
18:02of a hockey
18:03game
18:03getting the
18:04Caps going
18:05as they go
18:06on to win
18:06a series
18:06when they
18:07were down
18:071-0
18:08in game
18:08two
18:09down 1-0
18:10in the game
18:10at that point
18:12Grant and Danny
18:13curious to get
18:13your thoughts
18:14on the exchange
18:15next
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