- 10 hours ago
Eric Flack, who reports often on the Commanders new stadium details, provides an update on just how expensive the PSLs could be for season ticket holders.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Right now on the Rude Guest Hotline, we find our pal Eric Flack,
00:04who's the award-winning reporter from Channel 9,
00:06covering news in the DMV and off and out in Ashburn,
00:09covering commanders-related and stadium-related things.
00:12Eric, it's good to have you back on the show.
00:14How are you?
00:15Always a pleasure.
00:16I'm doing good.
00:17I'm doing good.
00:18It's going to melt outside.
00:20But other than that, I'm fine.
00:21I'm inside talking to you guys today.
00:23Yeah, it's disgusting.
00:24So you had a bunch of reporting over the weekend.
00:27Channel 9, I know, had the preseason game,
00:29and I saw you kind of teasing the report at halftime.
00:31But you've done a bunch of digging into the PSLs and kind of what lies ahead.
00:36What are season ticket holders in for here?
00:39Well, they're in for huge, huge PSL fees
00:43if they want to get season tickets to the new stadium.
00:49There's going to be a lot of pomp and circumstance surrounding the sale.
00:53Well, it's really an entirely new experience that commanders fans are going to be in for.
01:03You know, stadiums have had personal seat licenses or PSLs dating back, you know,
01:10more than a decade now.
01:11Every new stadium kind of comes with this idea of you have to buy a license
01:17for the right to buy your seat.
01:21Now, commanders fans have not had that.
01:23Obviously, people remember the old RFK.
01:25There was a waiting list because those tickets were so in demand.
01:30But there was never a fee to actually buy the seat.
01:34And, of course, the same is true as Northwest.
01:37You just buy a seat.
01:39With the newer stadiums, you have to pay a fee, a licensing fee,
01:44to buy season tickets.
01:46And these fees are outrageous.
01:49I just don't know any other word to say it.
01:53We don't know what the commanders are going to charge.
01:55We do know that most of the seats in the new stadium, the commander stadium,
02:00are going to have PSLs.
02:02We know what they're charging in Nashville,
02:05which is the most recent PSL to be going on sale right now.
02:09And in Nashville, you're talking about, in the club section,
02:15anywhere from $20,000 to as high as $75,000 per seat in that club section.
02:24And if you're even on a lower bowl, you're talking about $10,000, $12,000, $13,000 per seat.
02:32So just an outrageous amount of money, that is just part of the process.
02:37Last thing I'll say is when I say use the word outrageous,
02:39I'm not being critical of the team.
02:41This is the way it goes.
02:42But the numbers are eye-popping for what fans have to endure.
02:49So just for a little nuts and bolts here, what is a PSL?
02:54What does it get you?
02:55Because most fans or a lot of people hear that and go,
02:58well, I'm not doing that, which is understandable, right?
03:00But what does that entitle you to?
03:03Okay, let's talk about how the sausage is made.
03:07Again, it's called a personal seat license.
03:10It entitles you to the right to buy season tickets.
03:17Beyond that is kind of different from stadium to stadium.
03:22You presumably have the right to gain access with that seat or any seat
03:31to other big events that happen at the stadium.
03:36So if you're talking about, like we're talking about WrestleMania
03:40coming to the Commander's new stadium, that's been mentioned over and over again.
03:44Presumably, you would have access to, if not that seat, seats to WrestleMania
03:53before the general public.
03:56Concerts, Final Fours, same sort of concept.
04:01But again, the exact terms are different from stadium to stadium and PSL to PSL.
04:09One thing that I know is not included in the PSL is access to Super Bowl tickets.
04:14Because Super Bowl tickets are controlled by the NFL, and so that's not going to be included
04:21in your PSL.
04:22Beyond that, that's about it.
04:25And here's the kicker.
04:26If you ever decide that you – it's a one-time fee, so you pay it at the front.
04:31If you ever decide that you can't afford season tickets or you don't want the season tickets
04:37anymore, then you lose the license to the seat, and it kind of – somebody else can buy it.
04:43So if you ever stop buying the season tickets, the PSL that you've paid this huge amount of
04:49money up front for goes away.
04:53I wonder if this is just baked in and fans are just saying, okay, new stadium, this is
04:59part of it, no problem, or what this really does in terms of the person that's had tickets
05:04for 60 years.
05:05Maybe I'm showing my salary here.
05:08How could anyone afford this?
05:09I don't understand how, like, an average person, a family, could afford this.
05:14So a couple things on that, Grant.
05:17Since our story aired, we've had a lot of people kind of, like, comment on social media.
05:23And there have been fans who at least have publicly said, you know, we've had tickets
05:31for 60 years.
05:32This will end that.
05:36Conversely – and I talked to some fans in Buffalo because they just opened a new stadium.
05:42And Buffalo is also getting PSLs for the first time, and that's a blue-collar town, right?
05:48And I talked to a fan there, and he said, you know, a lot of people have been priced out,
05:56but nobody likes it, but we just kind of see it as almost like taxes now.
06:03It's just part of the deal.
06:05I mean, it's – Cleveland, another blue-collar town, just this week is launching this big
06:11immersive experience to sell their PSLs.
06:16And there's, like, all this glitz and glamour that comes with, like, bringing people in
06:20to, like, kind of give them the hard pitch for the PSLs.
06:24People I talked to in Nashville called it, like, a timeshare sale.
06:28But they're getting PSLs.
06:31So when you ask how can people afford this, in Nashville, those club seats, the ones that
06:37were $20,000 to $75,000 per seat, they sold out in three and a half months, which was two
06:45and a half times faster than the Titans had expected.
06:50So, you know, they do – in fairness, I should, like, signpost – all the teams, and I'm
06:57sure the commanders will do the same, work to keep, like, especially upper-deck PSLs much
07:04more, like, manageable.
07:06So, like, anywhere from, like, $3,000 to $5,000.
07:11And there's always going to be, like, a couple of seats that they reserve that don't have
07:15PSLs, if for no other reason.
07:17So they can say, you know, we still reserve some that don't have PSLs.
07:22But, you know, fans get priced out.
07:26And corporations do come in and buy these things.
07:30There's an entire marketplace now, like a StubHub for PSLs, where you try and resell
07:38the PSL when you move or don't want it anymore, just so you can recoup some of your
07:44investment.
07:45So it's just an entirely new way.
07:49And they have payment plans and stuff like that.
07:51So it's an entirely new way that NFL teams have just capitalized on the product.
07:58But Eric Flack with us here on G&D.
08:01Now, so let me preface this by saying no one should feel sorry for the billionaires.
08:04They'll be just fine.
08:05But I think a lot of people have a misnomer when they hear what somebody's worth, Eric.
08:10They just think Josh Harris and Mitch Rails and Mark Ein and whoever else, you know, just
08:14have a Scrooge McDuck money bin and just billions in cash.
08:16They just go swimming in it whenever they feel like it, and they can just throw money at
08:19stuff.
08:19This is all tied up.
08:21And I've theorized this for a while.
08:24You know, I haven't talked to anybody.
08:25I can't prove anything otherwise.
08:26But when you spend $6 billion, you get capital calls going for that, plus to buy the football
08:31team.
08:31Another couple of billion plus to build this stadium, cash is at a premium.
08:37And I saw our guy Andrew Brandt over the weekend on the Ross Tucker's podcast.
08:41We're talking about something else.
08:42But here was his quote.
08:43He said, he talked to a friend of mine in D.C. that was asked to be part of the
08:46commander's
08:46group.
08:47And he called me.
08:47He said, I got this prospectus.
08:49They want $200 million.
08:50And it looks like all I get out of that is some good tickets and maybe a parking pass.
08:53And they were talking about kind of something else.
08:55But I think this is the point here is I kind of always knew this was coming.
08:59But when rubber meets the road, and I swear there's a question in here, when the rubber
09:03meets the road, I knew it was going to be a lot.
09:04And yeah, there's going to be some sticker shock.
09:05But I think this group needs cash.
09:07And I don't think that's crazy.
09:09It just sort of seems to me to be.
09:10We were always headed in this general direction.
09:13Tag, you're it.
09:13Oh, Danny, well, transparent, they're being transparent about it.
09:19And the city of D.C. has said that the bill, the number that they have put out there is
09:27somewhere in the neighborhood of a billion dollars that's going to be generated that
09:33don't quote me on that figure.
09:35The PSL money is going to the stadium.
09:38So when we talk about the largest private investment in Washington, D.C. history is being
09:47made by Josh Harris and Rails and Ayn and company, part of the investment that they're
09:54making is they're taking that big pot of money from the PSLs and then just using it to build
09:59the stadium.
10:00So it is literally a way to, like, you know, fundraise fundraising for their for their
10:09stadium.
10:10And it's and it's a it's a financial model that is been in use now for all the NFL stadiums.
10:19And Washington is going to be no different.
10:22I mean, are you of the belief and I'm kind of asking you to editorialize here?
10:26Like, do you see it as it's normal?
10:28It's business.
10:29I totally get that.
10:30And I think it was to be expected.
10:32This is not news to me.
10:33If there's a new stadium built, PSLs are going to be involved and they're massive.
10:37Do you think it's wrong?
10:38Do you think like it shouldn't be that that that's not how it should be done?
10:43Like, what's your take on that?
10:44No, I mean, I mean, I think that we we want our cake and we want to eat it, too.
10:49We want the beautiful new stadium and, you know, but we don't we want to still pay
10:57Northwest Stadium prices.
10:58Yeah.
10:59The other thing, though, is, too, I'll say this.
11:02Like, I think about this all that not to get into I agree with everybody listening about
11:06every political thing that they think.
11:08But like, it's always annoyed me, Eric, that I pay all this taxes.
11:11And then I pay like car tax, like the big bulk money that I pay for my property tax on
11:18my car.
11:19And I'm like, wait, I've already paid for don't I pay for the stuff already?
11:22I'm already paying taxes on all this stuff.
11:24And there is this feeling of like, well, when you build a stadium and there's public money
11:29going into it, now I'm also helping to pay for the stadium again here.
11:33And I guess that would be a D.C.
11:34resident, which is different as a Virginia resident.
11:37Let's say I guess I'm not fitting the bill on the taxes on the front end.
11:40But is that relevant, do you feel like?
11:43No, I mean, I absolutely do.
11:46It all depends on yes.
11:47But it's it's it kind of goes back to the debate, Grant, about whether or not public money
11:53should have been involved in the stadium in the first place.
11:57And the answer was, well, this is the way it's done.
12:01Every stadium is built with public money.
12:03But the people who are against it said, well, that's not fair.
12:08That's not cool.
12:09That's not a justification to actually use tax dollars to build a stadium just because
12:16everybody else does it.
12:18But everybody else does it under the theory that it's going to benefit the overall economy.
12:24And so that's just the way things are done.
12:28PSLs are the same way now.
12:30PSLs have just become an accepted part of not just the way ownership in every NFL city,
12:39builds a new stadium and helps fundraise for a new stadium.
12:44It's also just an accepted way of, you know, the experience now for fans.
12:54You know, I think the team is feeling fairly confident that they're not going to have a problem
13:00selling the PSLs.
13:01I think that right now they're deciding, you know, how they're going to price the PSLs.
13:09And knowing the sort of money that you have in Washington, D.C.
13:14I mean, Nashville has money, but D.C. has like lobbyist, like inside the beltway money.
13:21And I think the team is going to feel pretty good about their ability, especially when
13:27you talk about the type of suites and mini suites and capital clubs and the various luxury
13:35levels that we've already found in federal filings.
13:38I think they feel pretty good about their ability to charge pretty exorbitant prices.
13:44The only hope for, I think, the regular fan is if the team finds a way to almost tax the
13:53rich and price those top end tiers so high that they can almost, you know, amortize the
14:03rest of the PSLs as a way to kind of, you know, stay, keep the stadium more accessible to fans
14:10because they know that there's going to be a criticism that, you know, that, that, and
14:17a fair one, that this is not for the everyday fan anymore.
14:22And they're going to have a thin, a tight needle to thread to kind of like, you know, close
14:32that gap.
14:32Eric, forgive my ignorance, but the PSL only guarantees your ability to buy season tickets,
14:40right?
14:40It, it, let's say hypothetically, cause I agree with you.
14:42I think they'll, they'll get the money.
14:44You own the seat.
14:44Yeah.
14:45But let's say they don't have a, a, a complete and total sellout of all the PSLs are the
14:50remaining season tickets then up for grabs.
14:53So in other words, I could take my chances if I was a season ticket holder potentially,
14:57right?
14:57You could.
14:58And there's theories and, and like a lot of the people in Nashville, I talked to like,
15:02cause Nashville, the, the, the, the, the, the club section was like pretty reasonable.
15:08They had PSLs there, even in the old stadium, but like a couple grand for the club section.
15:13Then these like normal people come into, you know, their meetings for the new stadium and
15:21they're like, all right, the PSL on your like, you know, comparable seat in the new stadium
15:26is going to be 20 grand.
15:29And they're like, these are, these are like, no, they're like choking on their laughter.
15:34They're like, no, I've got to buy my wife a new truck.
15:37I'm not going to give you $20,000 per seat, but they end up asking, Hey, can I circle back
15:43when your upper deck goes on sale and get a PSL up there?
15:47And that's what they ended up doing.
15:49Um, like getting a PSL, uh, in like lesser seats, so to speak, um, but like something
15:55they can actually afford.
15:57So, um, you know, I, I think that the PSL in general, um, and, and so circling back to
16:04your question, that stadium is a year away and they only have a handful of PSLs left.
16:11They have like some in the end zone that are like 12 grand, 12 to 13 grand behind the goal
16:18post is 10 grand.
16:20And they have a few in the upper deck that are like 3,500 and that's all they have left.
16:25So like, yeah.
16:26And, and those you, you know, are kind of like, you can hop on a website now and buy them
16:31whenever.
16:32So presumably if you get to all the way next year, then yeah, those seats would kind of
16:37just be sold on a, on a case by case basis.
16:39Can you go, sorry, Eric.
16:41We're up, we're up against it.
16:42Could you go into the, some of the luxury items that you saw with those blueprints and
16:46the different plans and some of the features, those things that are going to be in this
16:50new stadium?
16:51Yeah.
16:51What we know from the blueprints is that there's going to be a capital club.
16:57There's going to be a club, uh, just traditional level.
17:01There's going to be an owner's level, which is going to be down by the field.
17:06And there's going to be a pocket suite level, which is also going to be field level,
17:10pocket suite.
17:11Sounds like the Viking stadium.
17:13We went to the Viking stadium, Eric, and it's the same, uh, builders and they had the
17:18same kind of deal where it's like the owner, like four different levels of clubs, basically.
17:22Yeah, yeah.
17:23Exactly.
17:25The, uh, Browns just, uh, their stadium is going to be like 30% premium seats.
17:30I don't think the commanders know how much of the stadium is going to be premium seats,
17:34but it's going to be a lot.
17:36And, um, and what we know is, and there's still, so, and the other part of your question,
17:41Danny, is there's still designing the inside of the stadium.
17:45And so like, is there going to be additional premium levels?
17:49Like, you know, are there going to be like, you know, the, the Vegas type, um, are those
17:55pockets?
17:55We're going to be actually on the field, Vegas style.
17:57Some of those details, we still don't know.
18:00So you alluded to this a little bit, but someone asked me in the chat here on the 106.7,
18:05the
18:05fan YouTube watch, he says, can you ask about PSL secondary market?
18:09What do you know about how that plays out?
18:12I mean, like, you know, the, the, one of the next stories I'm going to work on is this
18:17idea of does a PSL have a depreciating value?
18:22And, and if so, to what extent?
18:24And I think the answer overall is yes, there are examples of PSLs having an appreciating
18:32value.
18:32For instance, the bills, their new stadium, rabid fan base, PSLs, a little bit more reasonable
18:39than in a DC or a Nashville.
18:42Um, they, they sold out every single PSL and now those are like for sale, uh, on this secondary
18:52market, um, at, at a markup.
18:55So, you know, you're, you're, you, there is just like a, um, um, a stub hub for PSLs, but
19:02like the Falcons have PSLs, um, the, um, SoFi has PSLs, the Ravens have had PSLs and the Ravens
19:12are another example of PSLs that were an appreciating value at their height of, um, of, of their, um,
19:19ticket, um, frenzy, Panthers, Bears, Bengals, Browns, Cowboys, Texas.
19:26I'm reading off this website, Raiders, Rams, Vikings, Giants, Jets, Eagles, Steelers, 49ers,
19:32Seahawks, and Titans all are on this PSL, um, website.
19:37So, um, you know, this is a pervasive thing and, you know, if you can play the long game
19:44with this stadium, you know, chances are that if the Commanders aren't going to Super
19:49Bowls every year, then maybe the PSL prices come down or you just, you know, work it into
19:55whatever you're going to try and get on, um, the secondary market, um, if you don't need
20:00season tickets.
20:01Eric, awesome as always with us, buddy.
20:02Great reporting, man.
20:04Appreciate it guys.
20:05Yeah.
20:06Insightful.
20:06Good information.
Comments