Sport's Cutting Edge Episode 108: You can leave the phone at home: Minimis’ Athletic Smart Glasses Revolution

Name: Sport's Cutting Edge Episode 108: You can leave the phone at home: Minimis’ Athletic Smart Glasses Revolution
Uploaded: 2026-06-23T06:38:31+00:00
Duration: 1 h 29 s
Channel: ASTN

00:00:05G'day, hello and welcome to Sports Cutting Edge.

00:00:08We're here for the Australian Sports Technologies Network, ASTN, powering sport through innovation.

00:00:12And we're joined today by two gentlemen from Minimus, one of the most exciting and practical

00:00:17sports tech wearables on the market right now.

00:00:21It's a Sydney business that's getting massive capital attention in the US and in Asia.

00:00:26This is a business on the rise and we're very lucky to have Paul Schemington and Joseph

00:00:31Guo on the show today.

00:00:33First of all, I'd like to thank very much our wonderful sponsors, Daily Motion Pro.

00:00:38And today's show is proudly sponsored by Daily Motion Pro, sports broadcasters, clubs, federations.

00:00:43This is for you.

00:00:44Daily Motion Pro is the most complete video suite for sports broadcasters, clubs and federations

00:00:50helping you stream on every screen.

00:00:52Grow your fan base and monetize content.

00:00:55Backed by AI-driven features designed to engage fans and supported by expert teams, it delivers

00:01:01high-performing and immersive video experiences.

00:01:05With over 400 million active users per month and a network of 5,000 partners, Daily Motion

00:01:12Pro is a trusted provider across the sports industry.

00:01:15Find out more at pro.dailymotion.com.

00:01:18And actually, funnily enough, Daily Motion are tied up with another Parisian organisation,

00:01:24Paris Saint-Germain, the European champion soccer team, football team.

00:01:28And actually, here where I am in New York, I caught up with Ben Simpson, who's the innovation

00:01:33boss.

00:01:33He's an Aussie too.

00:01:34Ben Simpson, who runs innovation for PSG.

00:01:38PSG doing a pop-up in Union Square here in Manhattan.

00:01:41And we're actually talking about Daily Motion Pro and what they're doing over there in France.

00:01:45So, it all ties in very nicely.

00:01:47And tying in further, because as I say, you know, the biggest capital market in the world

00:01:52is centred here in New York City.

00:01:54And this Australian business, this Sydney side business, is making big waves here in the

00:02:00Big Apple.

00:02:00They are Minimus.

00:02:02And again, Joseph Guo and Paul Skevington, welcome to the show.

00:02:07Thank you, Mark.

00:02:08Thank you for having us.

00:02:10Mate, absolutely sensational to have you both on.

00:02:13And as I say, Minimus smart glasses, it's sort of like you've got a sports watch, a bike

00:02:17computer, and a phone all in one.

00:02:20And it's funny, I was just, I was looking through the product range and the different

00:02:24features, and it's so funny.

00:02:26I mean, I'm no good at all, but you know, I love getting out there and running and gym

00:02:30and all that.

00:02:31And the product is absolutely miraculous.

00:02:33Because all the things that don't usually work, you guys have come up with a solution

00:02:37for, including, I love like the grip on the nose rim.

00:02:40You've got a grip that stops it from slipping off your face, all the different things.

00:02:44So we're going to dive right into Minimus, your product, your technology, and your expansion

00:02:49through Asia and the USA.

00:02:51We'll get into all that very, very shortly.

00:02:53But I want to start off by talking.

00:02:55So Joseph, you've got a magnificent backstory, mate.

00:02:58You're out of Werribee, there in the western suburbs, the western region of Victoria, just

00:03:03outside of the city of Melbourne.

00:03:05A lawyer, a banker, you love athletics, and then you've started your own business.

00:03:10You started with Werribee Secondary College, then you got a full-ride scholarship to Monash

00:03:16University studying law.

00:03:17Very impressive.

00:03:18And then you worked with the Australian Securities and Investment Commission, and then a big

00:03:22high-flying corporate career was underway, Macquarie, then IAG, and you said, you know

00:03:27what, bugger it, I'm sick of working for the man, I'm going to do my own thing.

00:03:30And you did that in 2022, creating Minimus.

00:03:33And Paul, to yourself, I love the fact that we've got Joseph come from Werribee, you've

00:03:38come from England, Sheffield, Hallam, where you studied engineering, you moved to Australia

00:03:44the best part of 27 years ago, and you've had a magnificent career, as I say, working

00:03:49in engineering, medical devices, wearables, robotics, the whole thing.

00:03:53So I want to start off with Joseph.

00:03:56Joseph, as I say, you had a cushy life, you're earning good corporate dollars, and you decided,

00:04:01nah, bugger it, I'm going to do my own thing.

00:04:03Like, can you give us a reflection on what that moment was like, 2022, you found your

00:04:09own company, you start your thing.

00:04:11What was that time like for you?

00:04:14Just firstly, a correction on the record, it wasn't a full-ride scholarship, it was 60%,

00:04:19but it was still pretty sweet, because in Australia, the benefit of it is that your

00:04:27HECS, your university fees are deferred for the duration of however long you can pay it

00:04:33back over your working life, whereas the scholarship was just paid immediately.

00:04:37So it felt like I was just getting paid to go to university, so pretty crazy back then.

00:04:44But back to the question, what it's like, I guess the thought process for me was, I don't

00:04:51have kids yet, and I'm young, and I thought, now it's the lowest opportunity cost it's ever

00:04:59going to be, later on, there'll either be golden handcuffs, or in the sense that you get

00:05:07paid a lot, that it's hard to justify not working.

00:05:13And also you have, you know, you get married, you have kids, and you have the familial risk

00:05:17factor, that it becomes much harder to drop everything and pursue something really left

00:05:23to fill, like a completely new miracle sunglasses.

00:05:26So I thought, if not now, then when?

00:05:30And so the answer was, it had to be now.

00:05:34Or the other time would be kind of similar to Paul, have a really illustrious career, be

00:05:41financially secure, and then take the risk.

00:05:46But I thought, I think the timing was just good as well.

00:05:51And Paul will talk more about this, but the tech stack was just lining up nicely for this

00:05:55to happen.

00:05:57And so I just thought, now or never, if not me, then who as well?

00:06:02It's nice to earn good money from corporate, but I felt like I could do that any time, in

00:06:11the sense that my philosophy in life has always been, what can I come back to, and what can't

00:06:18I come back to?

00:06:19And what I tend to strive for is the, what can't I come back to, knowing that there is sort

00:06:26of a backup pathway available for me that do choose to come back.

00:06:31Yeah, gotcha.

00:06:32And mate, I love the integrity and the fidelity to the truth.

00:06:35I can see you worked at ASIC very nicely with the full ride scholarship versus the 60%.

00:06:40I love it.

00:06:41So a very honest person, a very honest person we're dealing with here.

00:06:45And I just want to get into also, Joseph, like, was it, did you go out for a run one

00:06:52day and you had a nice pair of, you know, $1,000 Oakleys that slipped off your head, or

00:06:57were you grabbing for your phone?

00:06:58You almost got run over by a bus because you're looking at your phone.

00:07:01Like, what was the crowning moment where you actually conceptualized the smart glass technology?

00:07:102018, when Strava was just starting to spread organically through networks.

00:07:14And I remember, you know, having three friends on Strava only.

00:07:18And so that's when I got into running and I ran a lot, quite long distances.

00:07:24And I just had to carry my phone either on my hand or on an arm strap.

00:07:30And I didn't have a running watch at the time, eventually got one.

00:07:35But in all instances where I'm running either with a watch or with a phone strap or holding

00:07:42the phone, I just thought this is a really silly form factor or fitness tracking, because

00:07:47you're interrupting the flow, you're looking down, and you're making these awkward movements

00:07:53as well if you have a watch.

00:07:55And then I just thought it's not ideal.

00:07:57And I thought this is maybe, I thought this is something that will change eventually.

00:08:04If not me, then someone else will do it.

00:08:06I thought, why not, like a lot of people run with sunglasses.

00:08:10And so why not just merge it into sunglasses?

00:08:12And then you don't have to look down.

00:08:13And then you also don't have to carry multiple devices.

00:08:16So as a runner, the value proposition for me was just very natural.

00:08:19And I thought, surely some tech bro in the valley or someone in China is going to build

00:08:24this, right?

00:08:24Yeah.

00:08:25And then four or five years later, nobody, people trying, but nobody's really focused on

00:08:31standalone as much as we are.

00:08:33And so I was like, wow, so if no one's going to do it, then surely I'll do it.

00:08:39I'll solve a problem that I have.

00:08:41The moment that really solidified how important it is was when I took up cycling, because people

00:08:47started asking us, hey, can you build this for cyclists?

00:08:50I think the value proposition is stronger because it's more dangerous when you're looking down.

00:08:55So then I was going down a hill.

00:08:58At the time, I started with e-bikes and going down a hill, 50 k's an hour, and just looking

00:09:04at my phone that's mounted there and the bike computer as well, I have two devices.

00:09:09I was looking at one of them for the next turn.

00:09:11And then the car rolls out of the driveway and I am completely blind.

00:09:15And I skidded past them at the last moment, maybe 10 centimeters away from their bumper.

00:09:22And so otherwise, I would have full stacked it on their bonnet.

00:09:29That moment was like, okay, well, this is a real problem for cyclists.

00:09:32And then since then, I've spoken to many cyclists who say, yeah, you don't need to tell me that.

00:09:37I got PTSD from an actual incident because I was looking down at my bike computer or at my phone.

00:09:45And so I think maybe the other moment was yesterday.

00:09:50I got extremely frustrated at my bike computer after a long ride because it was just,

00:09:58yeah, I've got the full stack of Garmin equipment, all the Garmin biocomputers and sensors.

00:10:03And don't get me wrong, they are extremely impressive hardware-wise and software-wise.

00:10:09And they've built this expertise over many decades.

00:10:12But I was extremely frustrated because the accuracy was just not there.

00:10:16And it was saying, I only burned 300 calories over two hours.

00:10:22And then the heart rate was like low.

00:10:26And then I've just had all these problems with the sensors and the data.

00:10:30And I was just like, it's so frustrating.

00:10:32The tech stack hasn't been improved on since the early 2000s.

00:10:37It's the same sort of tech and software that's being recycled over and over.

00:10:41And I don't think, I think this is one of those sectors where people just, it's kind of like Nokia,

00:10:50I'd say.

00:10:50Like Nokia in the 2000s, 2010s, when people are just like used to it.

00:10:55And there's no real, like it's very reliable, rugged technology, but it's also like not the most consumer friendly.

00:11:05And so when the iPhone came out, it just completely wiped Nokia off their map.

00:11:09And so we're, we're kind of seeing the industry as a whole as, as what it is now, kind of

00:11:15like the Nokia versus iPhone or like the windscreen GPS was versus the iPhone, like legacy form factors that haven't

00:11:23been innovated upon for the last 10, 20 years that are ripe for disruption.

00:11:29And I'm actually to this day surprised that all startups aren't seeing what we're seeing, perhaps because it's a very

00:11:35hard problem to solve.

00:11:36Yeah, absolutely.

00:11:38And I know there with you arm in arm solving that problem is Paul and Paul, as I say, reflecting

00:11:44on your journey, you know, growing up in there in the north of England, coming out here back in 1999,

00:11:50just before the, the turn of the millennium, you as to, to quote your great business partner, he had an

00:11:56illustrious career working in the medical industry as an engineer.

00:12:00So you do all that, so you do all that, you yourself are on a comfortable wicket and you decide

00:12:04to get in and put your shoulder to the wheel to work with Joseph, with Minimus.

00:12:08Tell us, you know, your side of that story, Paul, what got you enchanted by this product and this opportunity?

00:12:15Sure. So, um, I think, um, just speaking to my background, um, I've been working in engineering, obviously for, for

00:12:24decades. Um, I, I am a unashamed nerd. Um, I, I've been very lucky. I've had a, I've had a

00:12:33very good career to date. Uh, and I think partly because I've chosen the products I want to work on,

00:12:39which I think is a privilege that, you know, some people don't get in life.

00:12:44I've, I've, I've always been, you know, supportive family and, uh, um, not averse to taking risks. I've just, I've

00:12:51just found problems that need solving, um, and products that, you know, are maybe not easy to do, but certainly

00:13:00exciting to build.

00:13:01So, you know, that's, you know, artificial heart or robotic exoskeletons and, uh, you know, various other, um, products I've

00:13:10worked on. So, um, I think for me, um, I was looking, I'd come back to Australia.

00:13:18I'd just been working, uh, for China, uh, working in China and New Zealand for a robotics company, uh, and

00:13:24I was looking for the next exciting product that I thought, you know, the most logical thing would have been

00:13:30another medical device.

00:13:32Um, and I, uh, I actually saw, uh, uh, an advert on LinkedIn, uh, just, you know, hardware startup, stealth

00:13:40startup.

00:13:40You see a lot of these adverts going out, mostly AI, um, quite often asking, asking for someone who can

00:13:48do everything, um, and, uh, and not much other detail, but this one mentioned hardware.

00:13:54So I met Joe, um, and we, we hit it off.

00:13:57We, we got a lot of shared interests, um, very interested in history.

00:14:03We just, we just hit it off and Joe, um, has been trying to solve a problem that I have

00:14:10as a runner.

00:14:11Um, you know, I, I've been using, I'm an early adopter as well.

00:14:17So I've been using, you know, heart rate monitors right from the very first, you know, polar heart rate monitors,

00:14:24uh, chest warm straps.

00:14:26Um, I've been through various models of those.

00:14:28I've made my own, uh, back in the past and, uh, the, the challenge has always been, you know, um,

00:14:35stats, um, matter a lot.

00:14:37They matter a lot to me when I run, um, because if I'm running by myself, I've got nothing to

00:14:43benchmark against.

00:14:44So, um, you know, for me, always being able to see my heart rate, heart rate zone nowadays, VO2 max

00:14:51or VO2 max calculation, uh, uh, speed, pace, cadence, all, all of these things are very important to me.

00:14:58Uh, and I think, uh, Joe mentioned earlier on, um, I was having the same problems as him in that

00:15:05I was, I was running Strava, which is a great app, um, or running all trails if I was, uh,

00:15:10running off-road.

00:15:11Uh, but all the information would be on a phone strapped to my arm, um, and to really see it,

00:15:18I'd have to stop.

00:15:19So if I'm doing cadence work, um, or even, you know, the watches are much better, but there's a, there's

00:15:25a limited amount of information you can get there.

00:15:27And if you're doing cadence work, um, I find that just, that goes to pot whenever you, uh, whenever, whenever

00:15:34I raise my wrist and start running.

00:15:36So to me, I could instantly see, uh, the problem he was solving.

00:15:41It's getting all this information, um, you know, there's a, there's a data connection, heart rate, speed, uh, cadence, everything

00:15:51else that can be done using a smartwatch paired to a phone.

00:15:57Um, or, uh, you know, for a cyclist, a cycling computer compared to, uh, to a phone, uh, but it

00:16:03actually gets it all in one, uh, and it's in your field of vision, which is what I need.

00:16:08You know, I don't, I don't need to look at it all the time, but it just needs to be

00:16:11there in my peripheral vision, uh, to stop me being lazy, you know, to stop me just running in zone

00:16:17three when I should be running in zone four.

00:16:19Or, or, or, you know, if I'm, if I'm off road, um, you know, using, using, uh, using, uh, uh,

00:16:26checking my way as a quick excuse to stop running for a minute or two.

00:16:29So, uh, keeps me honest.

00:16:31So yeah, for me, it was, it was a no brainer.

00:16:34Um, and, uh, it was also a problem that could be solved right now.

00:16:40Um, yeah.

00:16:42And, and I just, so absolutely, you've got a huge gap in the market that you've both identified.

00:16:48You've had personal experience with it.

00:16:50Um, and, and so you think, okay, we're going to tackle this.

00:16:53I want to just run people through a couple of basics of the product.

00:16:56And, and I mean, people, you know, on the second screen, if they're watching this or if you're listening, I

00:17:00highly encourage you all, uh, to have a look at minimus.life.

00:17:05Minimus, so M-I-N-I-M-I-S, so minimus.life.

00:17:11And you'll see what we're talking about for yourselves.

00:17:13But I just sort of want to run people through a few of the, the different specifics of the product,

00:17:18because I think this is where you win people, because it's just so practically applicable.

00:17:22So you've got the, the pin tilt display, so it doesn't obstruct your natural view.

00:17:28So it's not like you've sort of got a whole heap of, you know, graphics in front of you and

00:17:31you're running straight into the tree because you're looking at the pie graph.

00:17:34You know, you've got that natural view.

00:17:37So the pin tint display, um, you've got the non-slip nose pad, which I speak of before.

00:17:42Or, like, forever and a day, you've got sweat, you've got heavy glass, and it keeps dropping down.

00:17:46This keeps it perfectly in place.

00:17:48UV 400, which is sensational, because obviously such a factor there with regards our eyes and skin cancer, etc.

00:17:56Anti-fog, which anyone that's ever done a decent workout will be able to relate to that.

00:18:00Um, the lenses actually adjust as you go in a different shade.

00:18:04So, for example, if you're going for a run in Melbourne where you get the four seasons in 20 minutes,

00:18:08it will actually naturally adjust so that when the sun goes behind the clouds and it's, like, all dark and

00:18:13grey and gloomy, you're not, you know, again, running in the dark.

00:18:16It actually naturally lightens up as the atmospheric light diminishes and vice versa.

00:18:22And you can put the prescription inserts in as well.

00:18:25So, so practical.

00:18:27Um, guys, can you give us, both of you, I mean, Paul may beat yourself off the top from an

00:18:31engineering point of view.

00:18:32Can you, better than me, describe a little deeper as, you know, what the product is in and of itself,

00:18:38please?

00:18:39Sure, yeah.

00:18:40So, um, as I said before, it's a self-contained product.

00:18:45So, it's, um, sports sunglasses, just like, you know, you see many cyclists and runners using.

00:18:50Uh, but inside the sunglasses, uh, you've got a phone, uh, effectively.

00:18:57You've got a fully functioning Android phone.

00:18:59Uh, you've got a full-color display.

00:19:03Uh, you've got heart rate monitors, um, and, obviously, you're able then to connect, uh, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, um, 4G

00:19:13data, 4G data and, and phone, uh, and also, um, Amped Plus, which is, that's a, a protocol people use.

00:19:22It's, it's used a lot in bikes, a lot of Garmin products use them, power meters, radars and things like

00:19:28that.

00:19:28So, basically, it's, um, it's able to measure your, measure your speed, attitude, uh, velocity.

00:19:40It's able to measure your heart rate, and it's able, it acts as a hub, uh, to anything else you

00:19:44might have.

00:19:45Less so as a runner, but more so as a biker, you know, any peripherals you have on.

00:19:49Um, so, effectively, you could go out for a ride or a run.

00:19:53You don't need, you don't even need to take your phone with you.

00:19:56You don't even need your smartwatch on, um, all of that functionality's in the device.

00:20:01And, uh, this is a real sort of, you know, the opposite of an intelligent question, but how, how does

00:20:08it all fit in there?

00:20:09How do you get the heart rate out of, like, how does it work, Paul?

00:20:12How does it work?

00:20:14Okay.

00:20:14Um, so, all of this functionality has been available for quite a few years, albeit in phones, in, in watches

00:20:24and everything else.

00:20:25Everything existed, um, but it's only just been in the last couple of years that things have got small enough,

00:20:33low power enough, bright enough for the display, which is a, which is a major thing here.

00:20:39There were plenty of displays before that, and, and nowadays in products that work great when you're inside.

00:20:45Uh, you know, if you want spatial computing, if you want to play games or run meetings using smart glasses,

00:20:51that's great.

00:20:51But don't work in, in bright sunlight, and more importantly, if you're, if you're running through a, um, forest in

00:20:58Australia, where it's ultimately bright and dark all the time, there's a great display to do that.

00:21:03Um, so I think, uh, obviously, you know, the, the, the parts of this have come of age, you know,

00:21:10that they're, they're reliable enough to use, but the, the biggest challenge for us, uh, is to fiddle this into

00:21:17a device.

00:21:17I mean, if, um, if, um, if you think about prototyping, the last product I worked on was a robot,

00:21:23and that had, you know, wifi and Bluetooth.

00:21:26Now, as a, as a product designer, you can buy a module pre-certified, ready to slip into a bigger

00:21:34product, uh, that makes things much easier.

00:21:38Someone else has done the hard work, you know, the RF, the, uh, all the hard work there, uh, and

00:21:43you just bring it into your product.

00:21:45But for, for, for us, we've had, uh, we've had to design the modem ourselves.

00:21:50So, again, take, you know, we've not reinvented the wheel.

00:21:54These are chip sets that are available, but no one, for all the IoT internet of things, tile tags, and,

00:22:01you know, um, Apple trackers, and all the other products around there, there's nothing small enough, or in the right

00:22:07form factor to fit into glasses.

00:22:09So, effectively, we've had to take the hard road, and, and take all that, and design it so that it

00:22:16fits in the device.

00:22:17And also, uh, what we're working on now is, um, running it in a way to minimize power consumption.

00:22:26Because the, the lower your power, the smaller your battery, or the lower your power, the longer the battery you

00:22:32have is going to last.

00:22:33So, there's a, there's a number of challenges we've had to solve here.

00:22:37Extraordinary.

00:22:38Uh, Joseph, just in a moment, I'd love to hear the way you've been able to take this to market.

00:22:42Because the, the business that you're running on this is exquisite.

00:22:45But, Paul, just before we get to that, can you give us a little bit of a look under the

00:22:49hood?

00:22:50I mean, you know, don't give away too much, obviously.

00:22:52But, like, how do you create that?

00:22:55As you said, you've got the challenge of trying to bring all these different components into one piece,

00:22:59and do it at a small enough size to be able to make it work.

00:23:03Um, from an engineering point of view, I mean, you're someone that built artificial hearts.

00:23:07So, obviously, clearly, it's not beyond you.

00:23:09But how do you, do you sketch it out on a bit of paper?

00:23:11And then you start thinking about how we, like, how do you actually do it?

00:23:15How do you breathe this stuff into life?

00:23:19Okay, um, yeah, very interesting question.

00:23:22So, um, I think the way I approach a product design, um, is I'm, I'm top down.

00:23:34I, I think of the system.

00:23:36When I, when I started my career, I was very much bottom up, you know, like, here's the problem.

00:23:40Reduce it down.

00:23:42Solve this bit.

00:23:43Move to the next bit.

00:23:44Solve it.

00:23:44I suppose when you're, you know, when you're, you're looking at a product, um, the product isn't just the thing

00:23:52you see.

00:23:53I've got a pair of the glasses here.

00:23:54It isn't just this, uh, uh, the actual glasses.

00:23:59Of course, um, you've got to fit it into a case.

00:24:04And that's, that's a charging case.

00:24:06And so you've got to, you know, the contacts have got to fit inside the case.

00:24:12Uh, if you're not using a case, you've got a charging cable.

00:24:16Um, uh, I'd, I'd just basically think of the, the product as a whole, um, spend as much time as

00:24:24I can understanding how users would use this.

00:24:28And I know John, Joe has done a lot of, a lot of work with our, with our backers and

00:24:32subject matter experts.

00:24:33So, you know, it's easy for me.

00:24:35I've got a certain way of looking at things because I'm technical.

00:24:38But how does someone who's, um, very sports focused and not technical think about how they do it?

00:24:44So, um, really for me, it's a case of, um, you know, once we've come up with, with something that

00:24:51will work, how do you then break that down?

00:24:54As I say, well, you know, what, what does the software do?

00:24:57What functionality do we get out of software?

00:24:59What functionality do we get out of hardware?

00:25:01Um, one of the parts that are extremely specialist, like that mentioned RF, um, you know, antenna, antenna theory, um,

00:25:15that's obviously very important for, for Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and, um, and 4G, LTE.

00:25:21Um, I'm no expert in this, so it's, um, I think as, um, you know, you've got to reach out.

00:25:28We have to find the people who've done this before, companies that have done this before, who were able to

00:25:33help us, um, bring this together.

00:25:36Um, so I think my perspective is I, I get into the, we're a startup.

00:25:42So, so obviously I have to get right down into the detail and the design, um, uh, but I, I

00:25:48also think my, my role, you know, you know, project managing and systems engineering is obviously very important to, uh,

00:25:55to make sure everything comes together.

00:25:57Oh, God, yeah.

00:25:59All right, Joseph, I want to get your side of this because, I mean, you've got this phenomenal product, so

00:26:05practically applicable, uh, so user-friendly and filling a huge void in the market.

00:26:11But as you say, no one else is filling that void in the market.

00:26:14You sort of discovered the problem in 2018.

00:26:16By 2022, no one's come up with the solution, so you do.

00:26:21Um, how have you gone in the last four years of getting this to market?

00:26:25And as I say, the, the capital interest that you've been able to attract on the east and west coast

00:26:30of the US, throughout the UK, Europe, Asia, et cetera, shows that clearly you've got a number of people in

00:26:36your corner that are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

00:26:38Um, how have you gone about taking a really awesome product, but then actually being able to convert that into

00:26:44something more?

00:26:47Thank you, you're very kind.

00:26:49Um, first of all, we're, product's not there yet, so still quite a bit of work to do, but we're,

00:26:55every day we grow stronger, particularly as the journey's been three and a half years in.

00:26:59So, um, I wouldn't quite say we're very, very useful yet, but, uh, definitely the, the goal is to be

00:27:07something that people use day in, day out for, um, many years.

00:27:13And so, with that in mind, I guess the, how have we gone about commercializing?

00:27:21It's been, I'd say it's been a very difficult journey in the sense that it's very hard to, as an

00:27:29unproven founder, I mean, both Paul and I have industry experience, but I guess we're not the typical Silicon Valley

00:27:36guy with a couple of exits under their belt.

00:27:39So, we are very much coming to America, to Asia, as outsiders, as not your typical combo of founders.

00:27:49And so, it's been quite an uphill battle, I'd say, over, over the years, trying to convince people to trust

00:27:56us.

00:27:57Um, but I think the, the benefit of, um, being three and a half years in and being very upfront

00:28:06about and very transparent about our, our hardware journey is that people can see all of the evidence that we've

00:28:13been building over the years at this thesis is something that's actually real and that the tech is actually getting

00:28:19there.

00:28:20Um, but yeah, it's definitely been, uh, it's been a very difficult journey, but I'd say, um, people have been

00:28:27very kind to us across the world in terms of trusting us.

00:28:30As you say, uh, money is not easy to come by, particularly a lot of people work very hard for

00:28:37their money and so, and to them to say, risk it on us to bet that we will become the

00:28:43next big thing and wearables is like a huge compliment, uh, to us.

00:28:48Um, so yeah, very honored that people trust us as well.

00:28:52Um, but yeah, in terms of commercializing, it's the, um, it's hardware in terms of consumer hardware.

00:29:00It's always hard to, because there's nothing really to show people as you're building it.

00:29:06There's a lot of capital investment that goes in before you can actually ship anything out that won't, you know,

00:29:12blow up on people's faces and sort of thing.

00:29:14So it's, uh, it's, it's, it's very important to, I'd say, manage expectations.

00:29:21And we've been, I think transparency is our key strength.

00:29:25We've been providing pretty much monthly updates.

00:29:27We're very open to all of our investors and all of our customers who have pre-ordered about the progress

00:29:32of things.

00:29:33And I think that's very important.

00:29:34Uh, you see a lot of consumer hardware projects on Kickstarter, um, you know, go through similar delays.

00:29:44That sort of thing.

00:29:45Everyone expects themselves to go out to market in a year.

00:29:48I expected ourselves to get out to market in a year before I realized how monumental of a challenge we

00:29:55face in terms of technology.

00:29:57And then I realized, okay, this is a long journey.

00:29:59Um, but something about us, both of us enjoying endurance sports, I'm more of a cyclist now.

00:30:06Paul's a long distance runner.

00:30:07Um, I think it's like the fun of a long ruling journey is, is part of the joy of building

00:30:15a good startup.

00:30:16I think both Paul and I are sometimes like, oh, should we just have done AI instead?

00:30:20I could have done, you know, AI for law or like Paul could have done, you know, something AI for

00:30:25medtech.

00:30:26Um, but then we, we realized, and I've got lived experience as well with a side product, um, Minimus Phone,

00:30:33which is another story.

00:30:34Um, but we aren't really too terribly passionate about pure software, um, mainly because it, at least we find that,

00:30:44um, it's important to have a technical differentiation with what you're building.

00:30:50Um, and that's something that's very important for both of us to have tech substance behind what we do.

00:30:58Um, but yeah, back to commercialization, um, Elon's not very popular in Australia, but, uh, um, and, and even in

00:31:06America, they say, but credit where credit's due, he is a master of selling a vision.

00:31:13And so when you're pre-product and consumer hardware, that's really where, where, where you have to be, where it's

00:31:21selling a vision and also have the substance to back up the vision.

00:31:25And that's where, I guess I, I've dreamt up this idea and then Paul's been really, really good at actually

00:31:32making that idea happen.

00:31:33And that's where, uh, some of the early, earlier commercial success we've had has come from, um, a good amount

00:31:42of teamwork and selling a, selling a dream and also fulfilling a dream as well.

00:31:46But we are still got a, got a while to go.

00:31:48So I wouldn't call ourselves like a successful case just yet.

00:31:53Well, mate, I think you're well and truly on the way to that.

00:31:56And, you know, I mean, as they say, what comes easy, doesn't last.

00:32:01And what lasts doesn't come easy and you're doing the hard yards to get that sustainable success.

00:32:06Tell us how, how, what was your time in San Francisco last year?

00:32:10The founders in residence work that you did there, just sort of trying to really fine tune your product.

00:32:15Can you give us an insight into that SFO time, please?

00:32:19Yeah.

00:32:20So for context, we first went to SF and 2024, uh, as part of startup world cup.

00:32:28Uh, and so we're all Australian audience favorites.

00:32:32Uh, so we didn't make it to SF to pitch on behalf of Australia, but we were, we still got

00:32:40free tickets to the show.

00:32:42We still have to pay for their fares, but we got free tickets to the show and we thought it

00:32:47took a bit of convincing for us to go.

00:32:48The, the, the show hosts in Australia, uh, Ramon, who's now moved on to Gandul Invest.

00:32:54Um, she was very adamant that SF will be really good for us.

00:32:59And so it took a bit of convincing.

00:33:00We didn't really want to go.

00:33:02And then we went and then I think both of us, well, Paul's been, Paul's been, but, um, to me,

00:33:07it was my first time.

00:33:08And then I was like, wow, this place is amazing.

00:33:10Uh, the pace people move at is amazing.

00:33:12Like people are really open and friendly.

00:33:15And so I felt like that was my spiritual home.

00:33:18And so, um, I guess our first taste was, was startup world cup.

00:33:23And then it was lined up perfectly with tech week, um, in 2024.

00:33:28And then we made a whole bunch of friends.

00:33:30Uh, I think off that journey, we actually received a, I guess, an investment rights offer as well.

00:33:38And so we're like, wow, this, this, this place has real potential capital and all these heavy hitters there.

00:33:47And then in 2025, I spent half a year in the U S or NYC, where you are at the

00:33:54moment, LA, uh, Chicago, and then SF as well.

00:33:58Both of the time in SF and, and yeah, as you had mentioned three months in, uh, accelerated called Founders

00:34:04Inc.

00:34:04Like, and I was part of a cohort there of, uh, really, really cool hardware builders from across the world.

00:34:11And, and we had a tiny lab, which, um, isn't as good as what we have in Australia with, uh,

00:34:18CSIRO.

00:34:19Obviously they, they, they, they have really good equipment here.

00:34:22But some, in terms of the atmosphere, it was just all these, you can imagine like all these really ambitious,

00:34:29often quite young founders in, in a, in a giant warehouse,

00:34:33just hacking at different problems, sharing knowledge about hardware, about commercialization, about funding.

00:34:40And so it was just, uh, an incredible community of, of people there.

00:34:45I learned so much.

00:34:46I met, made really good lifelong friends.

00:34:48Um, and yeah, in terms of commercial value, it was pretty important for us to, I guess, get on the

00:34:59radar of people in the Bay.

00:35:00And that's what we did and they pushed us really hard to do that.

00:35:03So I spent a lot of my time biking on the road in, in the Bay area, north to south,

00:35:09um, mostly north of the bridge, just biking to different bike shops.

00:35:13And then like pulling up with a, at the time, like a pretty rough prototype that was 3D printed and

00:35:19wire driven.

00:35:20And so, and then I started selling the, the vision.

00:35:23I'm like, Hey, we've got this prototype right now.

00:35:25Have a try.

00:35:26But our vision is to, um, is to replace the bike computer that you're selling.

00:35:31Um, and, and, um, and yeah, and we, I think we managed to get 11 shops on board, um, with

00:35:39some sort of commitment.

00:35:41Uh, and so, yeah, it was, it was really good.

00:35:45It was a, quite a daunting experience.

00:35:47I think if I wasn't in America, I wouldn't do it.

00:35:49Uh, first off, if I wasn't pushed by the accelerator, I wouldn't do it.

00:35:53Um, but it provided the important, I guess, skills and training, uh, that, the confidence and, and I guess the

00:36:02pressure really pushed me to be good at the, the cold pitching as well.

00:36:07I want to get into that, Joseph.

00:36:08It's such an interesting point you make about the, the spirit that is in America and the way it does,

00:36:14like it gets inside you and, and, and it does help you to think bigger than maybe you otherwise would,

00:36:20although you clearly already do that.

00:36:21But, but, but, you know, and it, it helps give you that little, uh, little extra oomph to go and

00:36:27put yourself out of your comfort zone for, for, you know, a lot of people that listen to the podcast

00:36:31are startups, they're founders, they're trying to get things going with their particular product or service or what have you.

00:36:38Um, how would you describe the impact as someone that, you know, grew up in Werribee, you did law at

00:36:43Monash, you're living in Sydney, um, coming to America and being there in that, you know, that, that tech, uh,

00:36:50absolute, you know.

00:36:51Oasis in California, um, and then New York where you got all the, you know, the energy over here on

00:36:57the East coast.

00:36:58What impact did that have on you?

00:37:00How would you describe it and, and how would you compare it to how challenging it can be in Australia

00:37:06to, to really ignite?

00:37:09Hmm.

00:37:10I'd say when I first went to America, particularly SF and also New York, it felt like there's a Chinese

00:37:16proverb where it's like a frog popping out of a well.

00:37:19Yeah.

00:37:20Uh, and then it's like, Oh my God, this is the, the world is so big.

00:37:24Yeah.

00:37:25Um, and you know, Australia is like, um, if you, if you stay too long in any country, right?

00:37:32You're, you're essentially a frog at the bottom of the well because you don't see how big the world is.

00:37:37And so, yeah, like first going to America, it was, it was a mixture of a bit of fear as

00:37:44well.

00:37:44Cause you, you know, and I remember telling the Paul, I'm like, Hey, uh, SF has a pretty bad reputation

00:37:50for like street safety.

00:37:51I like New York is, there's a little, I hear, you know, all these things.

00:37:56Right.

00:37:56And then, so I like mass shootings and that sort of thing.

00:37:59So I was like a little bit scared about like the safety aspect, but also excited about the opportunity.

00:38:06And, um, how do I say it?

00:38:09It's, uh, America definitely, it, the, the upside is unlimited.

00:38:16I'd say you can, particularly in where you are in New York, you can, you can do whatever you want.

00:38:22Literally the world is always in New York city alone.

00:38:24Um, but also I, I see a lot of like downside risk as well.

00:38:30So, you know, you see, um, obviously the welfare system isn't as strong or the healthcare system isn't as strong

00:38:36as Australia.

00:38:38So, uh, the, the, the destitution between the difference between the haves and the have nots is pretty obvious on

00:38:44the streets.

00:38:45And, um, I guess that's what you get with, uh, peak capitalism, I guess.

00:38:49Um, and so, um, yeah, it's, uh, I do think it's worth nuancing.

00:38:56Like when you go there first, everything's like rose tinted, but then after you stay there for a while, it's

00:39:01like, okay, I see like there's pros and cons to every country.

00:39:04Right.

00:39:04And, um, I guess, really is a brilliant country to live in, uh, entrepreneurship wise.

00:39:10It's a little challenging because of the conservatism and the entrepreneurship culture and in terms of, you know, only sort

00:39:17of backing through the winners.

00:39:19And, um, but, you know, the, the flip side of that is that it's extremely capital efficient.

00:39:25And our VCs in Australia produced some of the best outcomes per dollar spent.

00:39:30And I think we're like number one or I think number one most capital efficient ecosystem in the world.

00:39:36So we, we back things that are substantial.

00:39:39And, and so, um, lack of access to capital in Australia is tough, but also at the same time, I,

00:39:47I don't fault anyone here for being conservative.

00:39:50Right.

00:39:50It's a, it's a young, it's a young tech industry.

00:39:53Um, and you have to prove, prove that it's lucrative, that, that it's actually, the risk is lower.

00:40:01So then you get more people on board and then you can start taking higher, higher bets on, on risk.

00:40:07Yeah.

00:40:07And I, it's interesting because I've heard that sort of story a few times with regards.

00:40:12So a couple of years ago, we had Craig Horobin on the show.

00:40:15Fantastic person.

00:40:16He ran the digital for Telstra at the Sydney Olympics.

00:40:19So real OG of tech of digital tech, Sydney, 2000 games, uh, and doing it for Telstra who had those

00:40:26rights at that time.

00:40:27He started his own shop air cast, uh, streaming sports in venue in real time with, you know, basically zero

00:40:34latency exquisite.

00:40:36And anyway, this is a couple of years ago, came on the show and he couldn't get a chop out

00:40:40in Australia.

00:40:41No one would give him a go.

00:40:42And then he entered a, a startup competition, a run by at that time, Comcast NBC universal.

00:40:48So biggest media company in the world.

00:40:50And he won and he got picked up by Comcast and he's working with major league baseball, the NFL, the

00:40:57NBA.

00:40:57And it's like, he can't get a run in Australia and he's gone straight to the penthouse in America.

00:41:03And so, and then, you know, so he's doing great stuff.

00:41:06But point being that, you know, how have you found it, Paul, on your side of this street, like trying

00:41:12to get traction in Australia when there are these sorts of, you know, perhaps reticence to try things that are

00:41:19different.

00:41:20They're out of the box.

00:41:20So how have you found it, mate?

00:41:23Yes.

00:41:24So I'd say the difference, US, I've obviously been going to the US for many years.

00:41:31And the difference when it comes around investment and risk taking in the US is just chalk and cheese.

00:41:45So if I was over with Joe in California last year for quite a few months and, you know, again

00:41:53and again, we're meeting founders who have tried, failed, tried, failed, tried, failed.

00:42:00Just kept going.

00:42:01And that's because there's been funding available to them.

00:42:06So whether that's seed funding, angel funding, you know, once they get successful, there's more funding.

00:42:13So they've had this ability to, you know, to take a risk, build a small team around it, fail, learn

00:42:21from that failure and move on.

00:42:23And in Australia, I just, you know, the depth of talent when it comes to engineering, the expertise we've got

00:42:31in, you know, particularly Sydney and Melbourne cities, Sydney, I've done a lot of work in, is amazing.

00:42:39Right up there, world class.

00:42:42But it's a different kind of environment.

00:42:45You know, I've, you know, I've worked in a few startups and scale-ups and people are risk-averse.

00:42:52Maybe it's maybe it's the property market.

00:42:54You know, we've never had a property recession.

00:42:56People are less likely to up sticks, move city, take a job in a startup.

00:43:05Whereas in the US, I find that very different.

00:43:07You meet many experienced people who, yeah, move interstate just because something's exciting and give it a go.

00:43:16Yeah, very much so.

00:43:17And I know you gentlemen were involved in some of the early stage mentoring program with ASTN.

00:43:25Can you tell us about that experience, fellas?

00:43:29Yeah, so we were part of the pre-accelerator batch number nine, I think, last year.

00:43:34Although, yeah, last year.

00:43:37And I remember, I think three quarters of the program through it, I was like, hey, guys, I have to

00:43:42go to America.

00:43:42So I don't think I'll be able to make some of these sessions.

00:43:45But, yeah, it was very helpful in terms of particularly listening to mentors from who have succeeded before us.

00:43:57ASTN's been around for a long time.

00:43:59So a really strong alumni network of people who have gone through the journey, exited, pivoted, done all of this,

00:44:07fundraised, and so well in advance.

00:44:10And so I've made many good connections and friends who I subsequently met in person or online as well.

00:44:18So extremely helpful and also great to, well, the content was useful in getting myself in the frame of mind

00:44:28that we're in sports tech, not AR, not in software, not hardware, generic hardware.

00:44:36We're in sports tech.

00:44:36And it's still very important for us to remain grounded that we are in that industry because sometimes you can

00:44:44get carried away by what's hot in the market or what the wind's blowing and where you identify.

00:44:49I think because we are augmented reality technology, we are sometimes pulled by that industry.

00:44:56I've been to Augmented World Expo, and then it's just completely different, right?

00:45:00It's, you have to build for the consumer and not be dragged away by the technology.

00:45:07And so I think remaining grounded and laser focused on sports tech has been really helpful.

00:45:14And then ASTN obviously introduced us to, or let us know the opportunity in ASPN, the Taiwan-based accelerator, which

00:45:21we're now part of.

00:45:22And that's been really cool as well, like opening up doors in APAC, but also with some of the sports

00:45:28giants in Asia.

00:45:30So, yeah, it's, yeah.

00:45:32It's fun.

00:45:33I was actually going to ask you about the APAC Sports Policy Network out of Taiwan.

00:45:37Taiwan government doing a sensational job there, really coalescing the power of sport in the region.

00:45:43And, like, in terms of that hardware capacity that Taiwan is renowned for, obviously the broader Asia-Pacific market, you

00:45:53know, from a consumer point of view, potential consumer point of view, where, what sort of fruit do you see

00:45:58in Asia-Pacific for the business, for Minimus?

00:46:02I'd say APAC this year, particularly Taiwan, has actually been a lot bigger for us than America.

00:46:09So, for context, we're not really, in the short run, we're not going to America, because we feel like we've

00:46:18raised the money we could, we've made the friends we could on the commercialization side.

00:46:26So, on the demand side, we've got a really strong base in America, but on the supply side, Paul can

00:46:32tell you more about this, but Taiwan, like you said, is incredible in terms of AR technology, in terms of

00:46:38chip manufacturing, in particular, precision assembly, testing, and that sort of thing.

00:46:45It's just, it's a great place.

00:46:46And, so, on the supply side, we definitely see ourselves in the long run, in the short run, where we're

00:46:52focused right now, going to Taiwan quite a bit.

00:46:57And even, even, even funding-wise, we have an investor, and one more large run in the works in Taiwan.

00:47:04I think there's that appetite for, for risk.

00:47:07And if you see their GDP per capita, I think they're doing very well from the, from the AI boom

00:47:13as well.

00:47:14So, I don't know, Paul, if you wanted to add anything, any observations.

00:47:20Just, just that we obviously met quite a few companies.

00:47:23You know, my focus now is we're, we're, we're very close to calling a design freeze and flipping over into

00:47:29the, setting up for manufacture, which is, which is no mean feat.

00:47:34A lot of custom parts in this, and I've met a lot of great manufacturers and partners over in Taiwan.

00:47:43I think, you know, as a, as a, um, capability in our space, you know, eyewear, electronics, mobile phone, you

00:47:55know, there's a, there's a lot of capability there.

00:47:57I think the, the, the, the business culture I find is, is very good.

00:48:02It's very open.

00:48:05Um, and, uh, so this, this will be a product that will be manufactured in Asia.

00:48:10Um, just given the volumes that we're going to go to.

00:48:14And, uh, from what I've seen so far and the discussions I've had so far is, you know, a lot

00:48:18of, a lot of key suppliers, a lot of key partners we can use there.

00:48:23Um, you know, so it's an easy place to do business.

00:48:27Now, what's the goal guys?

00:48:29Like when, when am I going to be able to jump on minimus.life and order a pair or go

00:48:35to, I don't know, rebel sport?

00:48:37Like in terms of the actual, so you, you design free is not far off.

00:48:43Then we manufacture in Asia and then we start rolling out.

00:48:47Like what's the goal?

00:48:48I know these things fluctuate and move a hundred percent, but you know, if I could pin you down, um,

00:48:54what's the goal at this point in time?

00:48:56All things being equal, uh, for the product to be at market and how, what's the distribution thought at the

00:49:02minute?

00:49:02Is it, is it a rebel sport that's providing the retail?

00:49:06Obviously online sales, of course, can be huge.

00:49:08Like what, what sort of the strategy at this point looking forward?

00:49:12Yeah, so we want to go ship our first, say beta batch by the end of the year.

00:49:18That's our goal.

00:49:18Awesome.

00:49:19Uh, so that's just fulfilling our pre-orders of, um, around 150 or so consumer ones.

00:49:25And then just really focus on testing and feedback from people.

00:49:32Will you use this day in and day out?

00:49:34If not, why?

00:49:36And so measuring return rates, measuring like customer feedback, um, kind of like the Oculus go to market in the

00:49:43sense that you have a very limited small batch.

00:49:46Um, and the scarcity of it in and of itself piques interest if, if enough people like it and then,

00:49:52and then they say, look, I'm, I'm one of the 150 who got the first ones.

00:49:57Um, that helps our go to market.

00:50:00I, ironically, I know everyone these days is focused on like a bajillion pre-orders and like having a mega

00:50:05splash.

00:50:06We kind of want to go the opposite way in terms of, let's start small, make sure that people find

00:50:12the product useful.

00:50:13And then when we hit that sweet spot of like usefulness, people will say, this is good enough.

00:50:19Like we'll use it.

00:50:20Um, might not be perfect, but, um, that's when we start scaling it up and then really going, pushing massively

00:50:27for the, the distribution.

00:50:29Um, so yeah, I'd say like a, a storefront, like a rebel, maybe a year away if we're lucky, uh,

00:50:36if they'll talk to us, um, it's, um, yeah, we eventually want to be in terms of your distribution question.

00:50:42We just want to be where our buyers are.

00:50:46So if they buy from rebel, we'll be at rebel.

00:50:49If they buy online, we'll sell online.

00:50:52Uh, but really at the, at the start, we want to be like Strava, which is be good enough that

00:50:58people will just recommend you to the other people and then they'll find a way to procure you through their

00:51:04local store or through online.

00:51:05So, um, yeah, that's kind of the approach.

00:51:09Nice.

00:51:10And, and as a ballpark, where are you thinking the price point is at, at least initially?

00:51:15Um, yeah, so we've set a pretty, I'd say pretty high prices of $699 US, so about a thousand Australian.

00:51:26Yeah.

00:51:27Um, and mainly just because the, the, the cost of production is incredibly higher for the normal consumer electronics at

00:51:34the start.

00:51:35We see our vision is to bring that down a bit further so that we can be a affordable mass

00:51:40market product.

00:51:41Um, but yeah, so yeah, so initial price is $699, a thousand, uh, Australian.

00:51:48Mate, it sounds reasonable to me.

00:51:49It's not like socks and jocks.

00:51:50You've got to buy a few of them.

00:51:51You only got to buy one.

00:51:52And, um, uh, you know, given that it is doing all these different things in one, I mean, and, you

00:51:57know, keep in mind the flat screen TV was like 10 grand when it first came out.

00:52:01So these things do reduce over time.

00:52:03So the more people buy them, the cheaper we'll get for more people to buy them.

00:52:06So, um, no, I, when I asked the question, I thought, oh, gee, I wonder what the answer is going

00:52:11to be.

00:52:12$600 USD is very fair and reasonable.

00:52:14I would have thought for, for the product that it is a hundred percent.

00:52:18Um, now, well, I mean, it's true to be honest with you.

00:52:21I was thinking maybe it's going towards two grand.

00:52:23I thought, oh, maybe I shouldn't ask the question, but $600, it's good.

00:52:26Um, a Paul, uh, I think it might've been Joseph that mentioned this, or you might've said it earlier on.

00:52:31Um, and I think we probably gave everyone under the age of 30, a cold sweat, but you made the

00:52:35comment that you can wear the glasses and leave the phone at home.

00:52:38I think the idea of having to leave a phone at home would, would cause some serious, uh, consternation for

00:52:43many people.

00:52:43Uh, the younger variety, um, is there anything in what you're doing and look, whether it's inadvertent or there is

00:52:51a little bit of a desire we hear nonstop.

00:52:54And they've literally, Pixar's just made the latest Toy Story movie about this whole concept of, in essence, breaking the

00:53:00addiction to smartphones and smart devices is specifically for kids.

00:53:04Um, is there any sort of desire with creating this product that you sort of wean the phone out of

00:53:10people's palms of their hands?

00:53:12Is there anything about reducing phone addictivity that is, uh, in your product at all?

00:53:19Um, I think, um, give me a minute to think about this one.

00:53:25Um, just the, just the, just, just the use case of, you know, of course you can carry a phone

00:53:32with you.

00:53:33Um, and I, I think, you know, I'm, I'm, I definitely wouldn't class my phone as a, uh, myself as

00:53:39a screen addict.

00:53:40But the, the, the challenge is if you're, if you're using your phone for anything, as I find, I, I

00:53:46use it for what I need it for.

00:53:48And then I'll look at a couple of reels or I'll, I'll do something on the phone, you know, it's

00:53:53just, and, and so, so I don't, I don't suffer from a bad addiction, but I, I waste more of

00:53:59my day than I would, I would otherwise choose to do that.

00:54:02Uh, I think by, uh, by having hourglasses, now you, you don't just have to use them for sport.

00:54:09Um, it is a, you know, any app that you want to, to run and, and have in your, uh,

00:54:14your peripheral vision or in your full vision, uh, you can do, it can get you away from the phone.

00:54:20Um, I think, as you said, most, most people, certainly most cyclists would take their phone with them, but they

00:54:27wouldn't be looking at their phone.

00:54:29Uh, and I think with our form factor, we've got voice commands, you know, we can, we can bring up

00:54:34whatever we want on the screen, but I think the temptation just to, you know, flick through a few reels

00:54:41when you've got a couple of minutes isn't going to be there.

00:54:43It's just, it's not in your hand.

00:54:45It's not just something you're subconsciously doing.

00:54:47You've got to mindfully say, you know, use the microphone to say, Hey, you know, put on TikTok or, you

00:54:54know, something like that.

00:54:55So I think, I, I think it would have that effect.

00:54:58Um, although as I say, I'm possibly not the best person, uh, to ask about that.

00:55:03So I don't have a problem putting the phone down.

00:55:05Sorry, Paul, I missed the last half of your answer.

00:55:07I was just scrolling.

00:55:09But what about for you, what about for you, Joseph?

00:55:12Yeah, yeah.

00:55:13Sorry.

00:55:13While Paul was, um, thinking of his answer, I was dying to hop in because, um, yeah, funnily enough, we

00:55:20actually have a, another product called Minimus Phone.

00:55:23And I alluded to earlier, it's a software app that helps people reduce their screen time.

00:55:29And so we, we launched this in November, 2023, and it helped, it's helped fund us a lot and reduce

00:55:37our dependence on, on investors.

00:55:39Um, and so, yeah.

00:55:42So, I mean, ironically that people would pay for an app to help them use their phone less and make

00:55:47their phone like dumber and boring.

00:55:48Um, it's, it's, yeah.

00:55:51So I think there's a real consumer desire to minimize screen time.

00:55:54Yeah.

00:55:55I guess our optics when we were first building, including eSIM, was the ability to leave the phone at home.

00:56:01Um, it was maybe more from a performance perspective in terms of, um, at least personally, like, I have a

00:56:08pretty big phone, like a phablet, as I call it.

00:56:11Um, and I think a lot of people have, like, big, heavy phones with cases.

00:56:15Um, like, thin phones used to be a thing.

00:56:18And now it's like, yeah, everyone has, like, pretty thick phones.

00:56:21And, and, so it, it feels uncomfortable and it also is heavy, right?

00:56:26So it was more from a performance perspective, particularly for runners, to be able to say, hey, like, this is

00:56:32a couple hundred grams I can just, like, leave at home for my 21K or my 42K run.

00:56:39It does, like, and then, you know, another user, I think, complained to me that I had to buy a

00:56:45dedicated apparel.

00:56:47I think it was a pouch or something for their phone.

00:56:49And they're, like, whenever, I just feel like it's, like, silly that an entire category of apparel exists just because

00:56:55people have to carry their phones when they're running.

00:56:57And so it was more, I guess, from a performance and weight perspective.

00:57:02Um, but, you know, Apple Watch has eSIM within there, as well as the optionality of cutting, being able to

00:57:08leave your phone at home, I think, is quite powerful.

00:57:11Um, and it's something that we want to achieve.

00:57:14We might not launch immediately with the function because it takes a lot of time to get that sort of

00:57:20stuff approved across different jurisdictions.

00:57:23Um, but we'll certainly have the hardware there ready to, um, switch on, I guess, when, when it is approved.

00:57:29No, actually, just a sidebar, how do we get a hold of that Minimus phone product that you launched in

00:57:352023?

00:57:36Just do a little plug for that, please, Joseph.

00:57:38Oh, yeah, you could just, uh, search on the app stores.

00:57:40It's, it's on iPhone and, so, App Store and Google Play.

00:57:44And, um, yeah, you can download it.

00:57:47There's a seven-day for a trial.

00:57:48Yeah.

00:57:49And, um, yeah, check it out.

00:57:51I think it's useful.

00:57:53Um, yeah.

00:57:54Well, Matt, I think you're right on, well, probably in front of the zeitgeist a little bit,

00:57:59because when Disney starts doing a comment piece through a children's story on AI,

00:58:03given that Disney's one of the big investors in AI, when it starts sort of turning, uh,

00:58:07a light back on itself and on AI, I think it shows you that there is a genuine appetite

00:58:12out there to, to wean the phone and the AI out of our, you know, every minute of everyday

00:58:17existence.

00:58:18So, mate, on both scores, I think you, you blokes are on absolute winners here.

00:58:23Um, congratulations to you both.

00:58:25I appreciate you both coming on the show, Joseph and Paul, and, and being so generous with

00:58:30your time, I think everyone that listens and watches this show is going to be a hundred

00:58:34percent in your corner and rooting for you.

00:58:36Um, I think the fact that you've had the guts to give up really successful, really comfortable

00:58:42lives to pursue something different, to go the road less traveled is huge.

00:58:46I think the fact that you've encountered, you know, the less, uh, smooth, uh, sailing

00:58:51in Australia and then had the dare to go to America, to go to Taiwan and to get the capital,

00:58:57get the manufacturing, get the traction that you've needed.

00:58:59And now you're in a very exciting spot, you know, design, freeze, manufacture, six months,

00:59:04setting out the beater edition, 12 months time, rebel sport, done and dusted.

00:59:08I mean, it's a very exciting journey you're on and it's a, it's been wonderful getting

00:59:12insight into it.

00:59:13So Joseph Gwalt and Paul Skevington, thanks so much for your time.

00:59:17Thank you for having us, Lockie, particularly as a, like to acknowledge, it's a late Sunday

00:59:22night for Lockie as well.

00:59:24So he's done us a solid, thank you.

00:59:27Ah, you're very nice, Joseph, no, my absolute honor.

00:59:29And I encourage you, everyone, Minimus, M-I-N-I-M-I-S, minimus.life.

00:59:36Jump on and have a look and then even the app store as well to reduce a little bit of

00:59:39smartphone

00:59:40time.

00:59:41Uh, thank you so much to each and every one of you for being a part of the show this

00:59:44week.

00:59:44As always, thank you so much to Daily Motion and Daily Motion, probably our wonderful

00:59:47sponsors and a very special shout out to a very happy Queenslander, the Queensland boss

00:59:53of, so you could say the Brisbane Olympics boss of ASTN, Nikita Vogel, who's been our

00:59:59producer today.

01:00:00Nikita, thanks so much as always.

01:00:01Absolutely magnificent with your two young kids and lovely hubby, Into, as well.

01:00:06All right, we'll catch you next time on Sports Cutting Edge.

01:00:27We'll catch you next time on Sports Cutting Edge.

Sport's Cutting Edge Episode 108: You can leave the phone at home: Minimis’ Athletic Smart Glasses Revolution

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