Sport's Cutting Edge Episode 102 - World’s Best Concussion Tech, with SWAARM’s Gregg Harris - video Dailymotion

ASTN

Virginia Tech has ranked SWAARM’s halo head protection helmet as the number one halo helmet in the world, reducing up to 98% of head collision impact. Virginia Tech are world-leaders in independent, unvarnished helmet ratings. SWAARM are a South Australian start-up making their mark on the global stage, in the most crucial issue facing sport. Gregg Harris from SWAARM joins us to delve into the concussion crisis- where the CDC reports that each year 5-10% of all athletes will be concussed. Gregg talks about SWAARM’s unique science, and how his company is looking to solve problems for the military, construction, mining, aged care, as well as sport.

Transcript

00:00:00g'day hello and welcome to the show sports cutting edge all for the australian sports

00:00:12technologies network astn powering sport through innovation and today we're going to look at

00:00:18probably the most important issue in sport in the 21st century the issue of concussion it's

00:00:23at its extreme it's something that can kill it's something that can ruin lives and it's something

00:00:27that could have the potential to bankrupt sports so anyone that can find a solution to the dilemma of

00:00:33concussion while they're in our good books and it is greg harris today who comes in from swarm global

00:00:40a company out of south australia that's doing remarkable things greg will join us very shortly

00:00:44on the show and we are here all thanks to our great parisian friends daily motion pro a canal plus

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00:01:51supporters of the show as i say today we're focusing very sharply on the issue of concussion what are the

00:01:59solutions greg harris from swarm global joins us greg welcome aboard thanks thanks very much for having

00:02:05a pleasure to be here don't you that sounded pretty impressive daily motion pro those numbers big numbers

00:02:10yeah 400 million and they're all watching us now great as we talk about what you're doing

00:02:17mate congratulations i i want to reflect a little bit on on your career before we we get stuck in

00:02:22with swarm and with the issue of concussion i mean you're a an afl and aflw player agent so you've got a

00:02:29lot of skin in the game you're there working with players on the field uh they're the ones out there that

00:02:36you know put their their life at risk you know at times you know the absolute extremes of concussion

00:02:42are catastrophic you know we've seen the the situation with wally lewis um the king of rugby league

00:02:49and he came out in 2023 on 60 minutes and spoke about the fact that the game that he loves so much

00:02:57will kill it the the effects of concussion of repeated head trauma has created a medical situation

00:03:05that will ultimately claim his life and he was so open and courageous in talking about it and he

00:03:10spoke about the fact that you know the message he has for young men in particular is they need to

00:03:15not have so much bravado and to really look deep down at this issue of concussion equally he said that

00:03:22he wouldn't change a thing if he could go back in time he wouldn't change a thing so wally lewis

00:03:26is one extreme example of of what can happen with repeated head trauma the ability to try and mitigate to

00:03:34hopefully prevent that so so crucial so what you're doing as i say greg is amazing stuff but your

00:03:40career so obviously you're doing the player agent thing now which is very very cool but but you started

00:03:45off in tasmania beautiful tasmania and i did you worked in the financial industry with uh the

00:03:51commonwealth bank and national australia banking in senior management roles across the country tell us a

00:03:57little bit about how it all began for you greg as a young kid and getting into work life

00:04:01yeah no uh thanks lucky yeah look uh yeah proud tasmanian so i just uh finished year 12 down

00:04:09there at clearmont college out in the northern suburbs uh lived out there all my life and father

00:04:13worked at cadbury's for 49 years um so clearmont primary clearmont high clearmont college and um

00:04:21learned a few good uh street lessons there been a tough school but good fun um and then yeah a little

00:04:27bit of a year off just to to see what was next wasn't quite ready for uni both my brothers went

00:04:31there but wasn't quite ready to pick study straight back up um and that that that's the little casual

00:04:37role at the bank actually so as a as a part-time teller um which i just loved straight away interacting

00:04:42with people um helping people on their on their financial side of things and um yeah i really just

00:04:49took a liking to it so before i knew it without probably making a dedicated decision i was yeah promoted a

00:04:55couple of times and by the age of 20 21 i think leading one of the biggest branches in the state

00:05:00with about you know 40 odd staff there and it just it just snowboard and rolled but i do think yeah

00:05:06one thing i'm reasonable at is is the people skills side of things um so yeah i loved working with

00:05:11people and and that's what banking was to me it was a relationship-based model and i was lucky enough

00:05:16just to to continue to roll through and get invested in and and and um two different roles and then

00:05:21i was a trust bank and commonwealth bank came along and took over the local bank and and again that

00:05:26just provided some more opportunity with a bigger bank and did that for quite a while so i went from

00:05:30being a teller in tasmania to running the state when um when nab knocked on the door to sort of

00:05:34practically try to headhunt me which um i said no to originally but um pretty significant life event

00:05:41when my father passed away unexpectedly after i'd said no and nab knocked on the door again and i thought

00:05:46well you know that just shows me it's worth taking risks life's pretty short so i moved across to nab

00:05:51and yeah and you know in the words of wally hoos uh yeah 12 and a half great years at that uh 13 great

00:05:56years at cba and 12 and a half great years at nab and uh you know banking gave me so much um connections

00:06:02friendships experience you know when i ultimately left there after uh the royal commission with the

00:06:06redundancy it um it's uh you know i was leading a team of up towards about a thousand people four states

00:06:11and um and uh yeah had a pretty big role but yeah uh i will say that i haven't really woken up and

00:06:18missed it ever since i've gone but i i really did love and value everything that the 25 years gave me

00:06:24the experience um and and the relationships well first of all well done to your dad too 49 years

00:06:30at cadbury that is a power of time so well done to your old man um and yeah i mean it's amazing you

00:06:36start as a teller at a local branch in tassie and you end up running four states for one of the biggest

00:06:41banks in in the asia pacific it's a huge achievement and so you come out of that and then now you've

00:06:47worked in business mentoring and as i say as a player agent for some of the best afl aflw

00:06:53cricket players in the country um tell us about that aspect and perhaps how it's sort of fed into

00:07:00your desire to try and do something with regards concussion because obviously you're dealing with afl

00:07:05players aflw players you see the story that's behind the headline like how much has that driven your

00:07:11desire to try and create a better situation for them with regards their head health and also the

00:07:16rest of their body for that matter as well yeah yeah yeah what what when i exited the banking what

00:07:22gave me a chance to do got a wife who's also in a very corporate position we've got four children as

00:07:26well so uh with running a business the size i did i was away quite regularly so it gave me a chance to

00:07:31have some time off i finished an nba finished a diploma of executive coaching specializing in career

00:07:37transition coaching um it just gave me a chance to think about you know what are the things i like

00:07:41best and and that goes back to the people side um so how can i sort of help either individuals or

00:07:47businesses be the best they can which which got me uh involved on the board with um helix sports

00:07:53group um who predominantly is a player management business but they've expanded quite a bit to be

00:07:57consulting and leadership and all those other sort of things um so that was the athlete side of things and

00:08:03largely um uh we had a player agent there who got another job in the snf and that was deemed to be

00:08:11a bit of a conflict of interest so we had a players and basically we had a short very short period of

00:08:16time to get um get someone accredited to continue to look after those so that fell back to well to me

00:08:22and and now another another young man matt knight who's there as well um but it's a gi sat 12 exams for

00:08:29my nba i'll give you the tip the uh the afl accreditation exam to be a player agent was the

00:08:34hardest thing we've ever sat it was it was full on um but i love sports so it made it a lot easier

00:08:40and um yeah so that that sort of just evolved um through the need for the business to have someone

00:08:46accredited in the end we got a couple and it's great because we did have a lot of cricketers and

00:08:51and you know we just spoke off off air you know um travis heads one of the one of the biggest ones

00:08:54is a great man um so we had extensive experience in sport and talent management um we set up our

00:09:02own afl aflw business um so yeah one of the things with that i think one of the things the afl pa and

00:09:08the afl push really really strongly in being an accredited agent is that you're always acting in

00:09:15your player's best interest um so yeah you know i think you know maybe to the outside world that comes

00:09:21in a they think financially but it is all about well-being health and transition after the game

00:09:27what's next for them so it's about being with player for the entire journey not just negotiating

00:09:32the next contract but making sure um you know if they they do use their time well if they want to

00:09:38volunteer that we get them into a spot that aligns to their values and um and one of the biggest

00:09:42things is equally biggest would be their their transition postgame but also keeping them healthy

00:09:46during their career so as you said concussion i think worldwide is is in contact sport is a massive

00:09:52problem um and and yeah back to wally and and when i grew up playing and watching afl uh obviously it

00:10:01wasn't the impact wasn't as widely known um you know and you would have seen it being a billion

00:10:06australian that uh you get knocked out in the afl or vfl at that time and it was expected that you'd

00:10:11come back on and um and i think actually as you said with wally it was a bit of a sign of toughness

00:10:17but if you could come back from a significant head knock and be back on the ground um you know

00:10:22you're a bit of that you've got that warrior technique that warrior mentality so but no one really we

00:10:27weren't as well educated at that stage around what the long-term effects of that was going to be

00:10:30and i think clearly we are now so um yeah that that's uh that just led me to a chance meeting

00:10:38with um with simon austenbury who's the ceo and founder of swarm um and and got to understand what

00:10:44he'd been doing which was seven years of really robust testing um on a um on a solution that he he

00:10:53thought he had um but you know continually tested to get better and better and better around being able

00:10:58to not prevent because i don't think anything can prevent concussion but um significantly reduce

00:11:04the force and reduce the impact um so to give you a chance if you are wearing some of our protective

00:11:10gear and you do caught one of those significant hits um as i said we're not guaranteed that you

00:11:15can prevent concussion because i don't think that can happen but we are saying that it will significantly

00:11:18reduce the impact that gets through to your head and your brain um and if we can slow that down

00:11:23and reduce the impact that's obviously a good thing now we liken it to car seat car um car seatbelts

00:11:29around when they first came out they were mandatory obviously weren't that great now you know they

00:11:34fit the size when you do their airbags didn't exist there you know airbags and car seatbelts don't

00:11:38stop road fatalities but they have significantly reduced what's happened um in australia also with

00:11:43you know the mandated helmets for for bicycle riders um you know that was a significant thing that was

00:11:48introduced to try and reduce head trauma so when i got introduced to simon he had a fantastic product

00:11:54uh he'd done a lot of testing on it um but probably was in that stage where what's next how do we

00:12:00commercialize it what are we what are we looking at um and that's where i also got introduced to him

00:12:04around helping to you know to bring the product to life to uh we're not with a great team of other

00:12:08people to um to get it on the market so we can actually start making some positive difference and that

00:12:14and that really did excite me because i've been involved in a lot of things and one thing

00:12:20when i really reflected on my time after 25 years in banking was what am i passionate about what what

00:12:26i want to do um yeah what's my purpose and um and this one really had something that i could see with

00:12:32four children two of them who play contact sport that this is a chance to make a difference a really

00:12:37positive difference yeah gotcha i mean and and it is so crucial and the ramifications can be

00:12:44just so dastardly like around the corner from where i am here in new york city uh in the middle of this

00:12:50year 2025 a person walked into an office building and proceeded to conduct a mass shooting and then

00:12:58killed themselves and that person allegedly was targeting the nfl and um that person made a point of

00:13:06killing themselves by shooting themselves in the body rather than the head so their their brain could be

00:13:10studied post-mortem and it was found that that person had cte so as as we say at the extremes of

00:13:17this thing this is one of the most well it is the most important issue in sport and the fact that you

00:13:23and your team are dedicating yourself to creating a better situation is so crucial and well done to

00:13:29you um the thing about swarm that i love is the fact that it's not just a nice looking product and it's

00:13:34not just sort of nice words but you've done the hard work you've done the testing i know you guys started

00:13:39off with flinders university in south australia but the work that you do with virginia tech who

00:13:46are considered the number one when it comes to concussion headwear testing etc can you tell us

00:13:51about what you at swarm have done with virginia tech to ensure that your product is absolutely the best that

00:13:58it can be yeah absolutely so it's a key partnership just touching on the the flinders university so

00:14:04uh we've still got four masters or phd students in our business who who are students at flinders so um

00:14:10that partnership's been sort of since day one and really really important to the testing and the um

00:14:15understanding of the science um you know if you think it's on our website uh you can click down to

00:14:20the page it's got the science there and you can see some some nice diagrams but um yeah the drop

00:14:24tower testing and all those sort of things um and evolving the products really been an important

00:14:29relationship with flinders um but again taking that to i guess when you when you do that level of

00:14:35of testing um we i think over you know close to 20 000 tests with our product and competitors products

00:14:44um you get a line you get a line of sight around where you where yours where your sits how well it does but

00:14:49um yeah it's not a selling it's not there's not not a foundation to sell on when you've tested it

00:14:54yourself and and it's not peer-reviewed or you haven't you haven't engaged someone externally so

00:14:58um a lot of research then uh externally to find out who's who's who's world's best practice who's the

00:15:05global leader in testing this stuff concussion and you know it's really interesting that you just

00:15:09mentioned the nfl um because uh yeah we i guess from australia we see they wear these big helmets and

00:15:17you know how could you how could you possibly take a knock in that well you go and watch your game

00:15:21live and actually see how many knocks they get and hitting the ground and all those sort of things

00:15:26and of course the big helmet again only does so much so um virginia tech after a lot of research we

00:15:31found to be uh considered by many many people to be the world's best in um concussion testing of

00:15:40helmets and from every helmet from construction to equestrian to ice hockey to nfl to everything else uh

00:15:48the amount of bike helmets they test from around the world is is unbelievable so we engaged uh them

00:15:54in uh testing our halo which was the first product we we created which the halo is just uh not a full

00:16:00helmet um because as you know lachie the over here in aussie rules particularly the there is some

00:16:06stigma attached with wearing a helmet um you know i think in the in the main game there's only three men

00:16:11that uh one for gws and two for north melbourne who run men with helmets on so when it's such a big

00:16:16issue you're living at three whereas rugby it's a little bit more embraced um so we we came up with

00:16:21a halo as a transition for particularly juniors because that's where we're focused on um you know

00:16:26the brains at its most most susceptible sort of between eight and 14 years of age so um you might

00:16:32not go from nothing to a full helmet you might go to the halo which covers about 80 percent 85 percent

00:16:36of where knocks occur um so we sent that across to virginia tech to test which was very exciting but also

00:16:42um a few nerve nerve-wracking moments because essentially once you send and you engage virginia

00:16:48tech to do their testing they publish the results good or bad so you're uh yep that's one of the

00:16:54agreement terms that they will publish what they test and how they they taste it so we had rotational

00:16:59testing linear testing whereas at home we'd only had the drop towel so um yeah we were we were

00:17:05certainly very confident how that would perform but it is open to different testing different techniques

00:17:09the world's best practice and the fact that those results are going to be published regardless um

00:17:15and after a you know a confident but nervous wait for for for a month or so i reckon it was that um

00:17:21yeah we got the results back and that tested as the world's best halo um for uh reducing

00:17:28force for concussion as i said you know really important we say not to prevent concussion but to reduce

00:17:32the impact and disperse the force um so obviously we were wrapped with that um it knocked off a helmet or

00:17:38a halo i think that had been world's number one for about six years so ours came out that uh all

00:17:44things considered in their testing um um that our halo um would reduce impact force by up to 98 percent

00:17:53so you know significant significant uh number um and yeah really wrapped that we obviously got those

00:18:00results published and we go to number one and move along on their on their website but what that did was

00:18:05um certainly gave us some feedback around we're on the right track um that we can make significant

00:18:12difference and now how do we turn this into a full helmet how do we turn into breast protection for

00:18:16females um and you know what can we do to to really make a difference because one of the things like

00:18:24any business that's commercial business you know clearly we can't continue to research and invest money

00:18:28in research and production and manufacturing if you're not making money but um we've got a really

00:18:33diverse uh experienced board on executive management team that all would have an equal

00:18:41balance of being a commercial business that this is a business that we can really make a significant

00:18:45difference in um in contact sport for both yeah you're probably not going to stop too many um

00:18:51experienced senior players where they're at the minute but um certainly in juniors that we can make a

00:18:56significant difference and become the new piece of equipment that you take to the game with your

00:19:00boots and your mouth guard and your water bottle that um because as i say both my boys uh wear swarm

00:19:07products and they play aussie rules um yeah as i say to them um yes you wear a mouth guard that's

00:19:12important but we can replace your teeth we can't replace your brain um and um and as you know different

00:19:19people are different have different levels of uh of how they how they deal with it someone might get a

00:19:24a really heavy hit on the head and just their their mechanics allow them to get up and run away from

00:19:28it um i don't know how much you've seen in afl but unfortunately you know mccarton who played for

00:19:32the swans who got many concussions his last one was when he's it looks so so soft that his head just hit

00:19:38the grass and you know that's he'd been subject to so many unfortunately so everybody's different and um

00:19:44you know we walked away from there going this is great we're on the right track but how can we advance it

00:19:48how can we get better how can we put it into different products um and how can we keep on

00:19:53working with virginia tech to uh yeah to continue to to evolve and one thing that we're really keen

00:19:58on is whilst that gets us to number one we want to lift the bar for everybody in this industry

00:20:02because ultimately at the end of the day consumers are the winner gotcha and i mean it's a huge thing

00:20:09as you said what a nervous weight you'd have yeah you got this product you believe in it you've done

00:20:14incredible work with flinders university you've crafted it and then you submit yourself to virginia

00:20:19tech the best in the world when it comes to being able to independently assess the validity and value

00:20:25of your product and the fact that you come up trumps in such an incredible way to be ranked world number

00:20:30one and take out the the previous competitor that had been ranked number one for six years i mean it's

00:20:35all credit to you yeah i've having the guts to to submit yourself to that level of testing and

00:20:40scrutiny and to have been found to have had the best product in the world is huge um and just like

00:20:47obviously it'd be some people listening who have got more the science understanding but for the more

00:20:52lay person understanding of the way your product works i mean so from what i gather you've got a

00:20:58a layer of painted advanced armor tech inside the halo inside the headwear and so my understanding is

00:21:06that it disperses and absorbs the impact force um and then there's a matrix of hinged plates that's

00:21:13where my understanding starts to leave when we're talking matrix of hinged plates so great can you

00:21:17sort of read on this side and it's back to me yeah great can you give me a little can you give us a

00:21:24little understanding of how does it work well you basically just covered it off it is that shape

00:21:29and i think i might actually have one just uh a little bit which is probably not going to be that great

00:21:34to view on the screen but um yeah and you can see that as i said probably the best way is you can

00:21:40refer that back on their website because the diagrams there under the science um it is exactly

00:21:44what you just said that we've got that and we've got some foam either side of that which is is really

00:21:49important to the process because in that that those uh those shapes and that uh that technology uh

00:21:55material does disperse the force so instead of allowing it go straight to the head and obviously

00:22:00the way the concussions is you know you've got your brain inside that will be

00:22:02rocking back wooden forward against your skull um what we're able to do is push some of that

00:22:08out the other way so it's not just going straight through in into the brain so um

00:22:13that's why as i said yeah i well we'd hope to be proved wrong i don't think you're you're

00:22:18ever going to get a um a product that could say 100 prevents but by reducing the impact and dispersing

00:22:25that force uh less impact goes through to the you know the crucial areas so um now you've done your

00:22:31research well you summarized it really well i'll get you to do the next one of those for us yeah

00:22:36um yeah i had the words i just didn't understand what they meant but it's brilliant but it makes

00:22:43sense the idea that you know the force comes in and you're able to spread the force rather than it all

00:22:48concaving in in one epicenter you're able to spread it um yeah it makes sense even to me um and greg in

00:22:56terms of the origin story of of the creation of it of you know the even actually and all credit to

00:23:03flinders uni we should give them some big ups you make a good point like when you're crafting it the

00:23:08the different iterations as you say the money you got to put in at the front end research and

00:23:12development can you take us a little bit under the hood of of how you went about discovering and

00:23:17how the business and you your compatriots they're part of the swarm global team how you discovered this

00:23:23tech yeah and and yeah that's it's worth a note that as i said there was about i guess we're up

00:23:29to about probably eight eight nine years worth of enhancing the products and testing and i'm only

00:23:33about three three and a bit years into the journey so i certainly can't take any credit from that from

00:23:37that day one simon's been the one with with warren largely that have been there uh right from the

00:23:41get-go now and working as you said in some really important partnerships flinders being one um

00:23:47um yeah the technology was actually developed uh i believe um by a former u.s soccer goalkeeper

00:23:57um who who really just uh had been banged up a bit by by saving goals and hitting goalposts and

00:24:04those sort of things and then uh yeah just just came up with it for his for his own personal um

00:24:10um own personal injury relief or prevention and um but so yeah just was not able to commercialize

00:24:17it didn't really have too many uh ideas around how to uh how to further develop it didn't have the

00:24:22time or money resources to put into to take it to the next level so um another product that simon works

00:24:29on was uh which was very had a lot of innovation to it uh uh the person who took this over from that

00:24:36that goalkeeper was able to saw simon's other products and thought well this guy's got some

00:24:39ideas and some innovation i wonder if he can do something with it and that's that's how the

00:24:42journey started so um but before it got anywhere as i said that's yeah it was a significant investment

00:24:48in a in a in a world-class drop tower um to do a lot of testing and i still look back at some of

00:24:54the first ones when i got involved and you know this halo that i talk about which is a you know

00:24:58really um comfortable product it largely sits as a big headband that protects the core part of your head

00:25:03um you couldn't almost couldn't bend the original ones that we were testing and how we started and

00:25:09now they almost fit to you know fit to fit to your head beautifully and you people often say to us

00:25:14that um you know halfway through a game and they've worn one they don't even know they've got a lot

00:25:17um that's that's how how comfortable it is um but yeah it's evolved a lot because it was continually

00:25:25building manufacturing something um getting it back testing it okay tests well but we know it hasn't

00:25:31a lot of flexibility or give so is it comfortable you know um all these things you got to think

00:25:36about when you you know user uh being user friendly is really important when we did our helmets it

00:25:41doesn't let your head breathe that you're getting too hot um can female players put a ponytail there's

00:25:46all these things that yes you've got a great thing in the tech and you want to keep testing that

00:25:50but you've got to think of the realities of people using it in in game day and in contact sports as

00:25:55well so um that was that was the technology was you know always we always knew that was good

00:26:01getting the phone to to get the most out of that technology was continually tested on and then

00:26:06creating a product that yeah hold on we could take to market and people could come to be where it was

00:26:10you know a long journey um and it probably escalated off the back of junior tech one thing we didn't

00:26:15we knew virginia tech how how uh renowned they were globally for testing but what we didn't know was um

00:26:21um um how much that was known probably in the in the consumer side of things so you know when that

00:26:27went up on the results page around how strongly our halo had performed um we started taking inquiries

00:26:33from from everywhere we actually got on from the emergency department of las vegas hospital um from

00:26:39a mother in melbourne whose son had epileptic fits to some aged care facilities to and and we just

00:26:45weren't ready for that so that was an interesting learning that um we didn't know how popular

00:26:51the consumer world virginia tech's testing was and how well it was known and inquiry started to come

00:26:56in around us having a commercial product when we we were we really only had the handful of products

00:27:01that we'd sent away for testing and we continued to work on so um that was a real eye-opener because

00:27:05we started to have to have conversations with people who wanted it um and the stretch is unbelievable

00:27:10you know circus performers think about circus performers um if you go and watch a live show they

00:27:15probably dismount uh the acrobats dismount once onto a very large and thick net because

00:27:21it's got to hold their body weight now they don't weigh what i do but they um yeah it's still a

00:27:25human body wall falling but in practice they probably dismount 200 times a day yeah and they

00:27:30come down on this net and the thing is their head hits it so yeah we had inquiries from from circus

00:27:35performers could they wear wear our halos but we put a chin strap on them so they and we were just yeah

00:27:40well that was just uh that was i guess really positive feedback um that how much demand was out there

00:27:46that we didn't know about but um caught us by a bit by surprise too around just how many eyeballs are

00:27:51on the virginia tech website from a consumer side of things well it's it's huge and it's interesting

00:27:56that the aspect of the diverse range of uses for your product i want to get into that because i think

00:28:01that is huge in terms of the commerciality of your business i think there's so much the rivers of gold

00:28:06across health etc um but you make such a good point that it's one thing and it's an amazing thing to have

00:28:13an incredible product but it's another thing to be able to make that product sync to be able to get

00:28:18it to market um and clearly the virginia tech result was huge for that we'll delve into that as well i

00:28:25do want to appoint people to the website swarmglobal.com swarmglobal.com and you'll be able to

00:28:32visually see all the different things we've been chatting about it double a in the swarms important

00:28:36one so double a in the swarms very true double a in the swarm so swarm with two a's so swarm

00:28:44global.com that is a good point great i think what you would have experienced mate and probably

00:28:48many of your listeners as well is that when you're trying to um get a brand name that you want to go

00:28:52global you know because there is contact sport almost in every in every country uh trying to uh

00:28:59trying to find one that's available and trying to get the relevant um protections around one it is

00:29:03it's it's almost impossible when you're trying to get a a business name that you want to be able to

00:29:07trademark globally it's we had a lot of uh a lot of fun on trying to do that it's a tough process so

00:29:12hence the reason we got swarm spelled a little bit differently but um and also with the advanced

00:29:16armor that you mentioned before what our double a does is reflect our advanced armor in there as well

00:29:20uh oh i like hey that's a nice time i like that i like that um and also i should give a shout out to

00:29:26another member of your team luke ivan who played in the sand for the south australian uh aussie rules

00:29:32football league and uh he unfortunately suffered a concussion on 20 or more occasions so the fact that

00:29:38he's there is obviously a very personal thing for him so shout out to luca who's part of your

00:29:42wonderful swarm team okay so you got this great product you got the great recommendation how have

00:29:50you gone about getting it to market so obviously virginia tech that's a huge breakthrough in terms of

00:29:56brand awareness but that the business side of the journey that you've been on i mean you were doing the

00:30:01business for some of the biggest banks in the asia pacific for best part of 20 odd years now you're

00:30:06doing the business for swarm global tell us about the way you've gone about that side of things

00:30:11please greg it's it's still one where we're working on every day and and improving and looking at how

00:30:18many avenues and what partnerships we can have and all those sort of things because it is tough right

00:30:22it's you've got any product um i think yeah the testing is a really important part the results are

00:30:28really really important um to know it works that's that stage around getting it so that it's consumer

00:30:33friendly you know comfortable to wear but then getting it to market's another one again as well

00:30:38right so it is a long journey for for anything um and we looked at uh how do we best do it um one

00:30:45thing i always try to do and our team tries to do is put ourselves in the consumer shoes in actual fact

00:30:50all of us involved in the in the in the business are on the board of the kids that play contact sport

00:30:54and probably played ourselves so it's a pretty easy scenario to be able to reverse and flip because

00:30:58of course my two kids do wear it um and before unbelievably about uh uh six months before i was

00:31:06involved in swarm um my wife said i want ted and george who are our two boys to wear helmets this

00:31:12year in in aussie rules because the the concussion topic got you know was getting a lot more coverage

00:31:18and i thought oh hello here i know what's going to happen here they're going to ask dad who played

00:31:21you know 220 odd games in tasmania did i ever wear a helmet so i had to get my reply there um but

00:31:28actually both of them were quite you say greg well well dad didn't dad was a full forward so

00:31:32whether he marked he either marked the ball and kicked the goal or he didn't go near it again so

00:31:37whereas they've got a little bit more ability to be a bit more nimble though playing closer to the

00:31:41ball so um but you know actually both both they both got it actually for their for their age i was

00:31:45really impressed with how how they um handled it but uh it's then got to be yeah a user user-friendly

00:31:51product as well so um but i did look at the wife's processes and tumors so what we did was we

00:31:57live in the in the hills uh we went into the local sports shop you know you want to shop local and

00:32:01support um they had two brands of helmet there we asked the sales consultant probably wasn't sure

00:32:09um in the end pointers to the one that was most popular based off the back of sales

00:32:14we went looked at it we were as really as parents try and do the right thing but uneducated in this

00:32:19space um we picked one up you know had a five-star rating it came in a couple more different colors

00:32:24um kids tried them on they felt they liked it we purchased um

00:32:31six months later i'm extremely uh educated differently in this this thing around you know

00:32:37what we just spent a hundred dollars on each probably weren't weren't great um um

00:32:42gee what was that five-star rating on the side because you know eventually we got a five-star rating

00:32:46from virginia tech and no this business didn't um but they had some internal tests you know you can

00:32:51put five-star rating so it was a really good eye-opener around what process did we go through

00:32:55as consumers and you know we went into it thinking that we're trying to do the best thing by our kids

00:32:59but really not doing enough investigative work um so then that that led us to how once we've got

00:33:06this product and we we've got uh you know a number that is significant number that we can

00:33:11manufacture and take to market how do we do that um because there's no doubt your sports shops and

00:33:15your rebels they have a massive place to play and um the foot traffic you get there is you just can't

00:33:20get anywhere else um with big brands but yeah we did some extensive mystery shopping and you know

00:33:27what we found out and through no fault of theirs but yeah largely they've got so many products in that

00:33:33in that shop that they can't be they can't be um up to speed on what every single product does and

00:33:39especially ones that have got a scientific edge to them around to prevent concussion um or reduce

00:33:44the impact um so when we did some mystery shopping you know largely across australia that

00:33:48was the same thing you know you had uh probably part-time staff you know probably what i would

00:33:53have done at one stage being a school kid on uh on weekends working in one of these shops uh because

00:33:58i had an interest in sport and when i when you start getting asked questions around does this helmet

00:34:03work does it prevent concussion does it reduce concussion um how good is it well no fault of

00:34:11theirs as i said but i don't know um largely what we got pointed to was that the one that was

00:34:15most popular as in the one that sold most so we really had to look at given we've done this work

00:34:20um uh how do we how do we take it to the market probably so yeah look largely it was it was through

00:34:26partnerships and it was through our uh direct to consumer on our on our website um and driving that

00:34:32and yeah we're starting to form a few partnerships right at the moment where um places that supply schools

00:34:39and clubs you know we're getting in more more of their uh catalog of products um because they are

00:34:46open to the the fact that they can be a little bit more trained on the product and have a good

00:34:49conversation around it but yeah largely it's it's we have luke you mentioned who's done a great job and

00:34:55i heard his story you know he really brings it to life when he presents the clubs around the 20-odd

00:34:59concussions he had and the impact it had on him um so at the minute we're doing the i guess it's the

00:35:04longer burn but we are we are out visiting clubs schools associations and i'm putting some business

00:35:10development managers on um around the country to uh to try and accelerate that um but yeah that is

00:35:17rewarding work but it's a slow burn um but you know off the back of virginia tech and some other

00:35:22things um we are fortunate three people i mentioned in the afl men wear it two of them being caleb daniel

00:35:29and tristan cherry they were our product unfortunately you can't brand that in the afl but

00:35:33um they are ambassadors for us as well so people know they wear our products so that that obviously

00:35:37gained some traction and we've we've got a really good relationship with the um the panther juniors in

00:35:42in uh the nrl as well and yeah they've got huge numbers so um those partnerships where you get it out

00:35:48and people see it make a difference really interesting with george my 10 year old who wore it

00:35:54when george rolled up with it no one else in his team was wearing headgear um um you know george's

00:35:59a good player he's he's popular amongst his team and that so yeah he's he's he's probably got that

00:36:04little bit of leadership to him and um yeah within a week i think there's there's there's 12 people

00:36:08in his team wearing it and nine are wearing small products so um it's it's that leadership role

00:36:13modeling and just getting out there more that uh that he's doing it for us but we certainly we

00:36:17certainly need to accelerate that and we certainly need to do it more through structured partnerships and

00:36:22and luke and adam who we just uh just started with us in sr doing a great job through schools in

00:36:27particular around um getting the school team because you said in one of your very early intros

00:36:32um here that um you know could bankrupt the whole whole sport um you know insurance insurance providers

00:36:39they are uh they want to see you doing as many things as you possibly can to to try and reduce the

00:36:45reduce the chances of injury so schools particularly private schools are really keen to take it up

00:36:49yeah god yeah and i think the closer you can get to the consumer through doing that sort of quality

00:36:54connection whether it's a school visit or a club visit it makes sense because really yeah for a

00:37:01product as important as a helmet you know maybe you're not just going to the general sports uh

00:37:06store you you know to get that sort of one-on-one contact with someone who comes into the club at the

00:37:11start of the season during pre-season i think that's that's such a a smart way to make that connection

00:37:16because obviously it's based on trust i mean it's one thing to buy a pair of socks you know they're

00:37:21going to do the job but to get something like this is so crucial so building that that trust on a on a

00:37:27closer level so a very smart move to do it like that and i mean some of the the concussion rates uh

00:37:34it's you know the afl it's it's really high so a little bit of research a couple of different uh

00:37:40sources one of those is uh complete concussions.com complete concussions.com sort of a compilation of

00:37:46different uh concussion uh statistics providers uh etc and it shows by far and away the the most

00:37:54prevalent prevalent rate of concussion in sport is with mma where there's 147 concussions per 1 000

00:38:02athlete exposures that's how they measure it so every time an athlete is exposed to the sport per

00:38:08every thousand of those exposures 147 concussions so one in seven fights in mma results in concussion

00:38:16the next is afl at 9.53 according to complete concussions.com 9.53 concussions per 1 000

00:38:26rugby is at 9.05 american football high school is at five just over five women's ice hockey the next and

00:38:33greg your point earlier really important around the levels of concussion amongst youth and according to

00:38:39the cdc here in america the highest prevalence is in boys tackle football then girls soccer then boys

00:38:46lacrosse boys ice hockey and on it goes so it's it's a huge thing greg and and to be able to get that

00:38:54awareness out there and in terms of what the point you made earlier it's funny even like we spoke about

00:38:59cricket a bit earlier like in the 1970s you watch a tape of cricketers in the 1970s no one's wearing a

00:39:04helmet you watch test cricket any sort of cricket now everyone wears a helmet so it's it's breaking

00:39:10that sort of stigma yeah yeah i think well obviously unfortunately unfortunately a lot of the um

00:39:17the bodies move they were being dated uh in cricket for this but clear they had to have a

00:39:21bit of a bit of a revamp but you know unfortunately there was the the phil hughes incident which we

00:39:26the australians will know what happened there and and you know that's when there was another level of

00:39:32um change and and and further protection mandate and obviously it's terrible that it takes a

00:39:37situation like that for that to happen so um yeah yeah cricket you've got it you've got someone

00:39:43running now you can be bowling a ball 150 you know very hard ball with 150 uh k's an hour and put it

00:39:49into the pitch once and and and rear up and hit someone in the head so yeah it's not surprising and

00:39:53and they've done well um whether it be the ICC or cricket australia you know i'd probably say

00:39:58cricket australia because um both my boys play cricket um so you know it is mandated that they

00:40:04need to wear a helmet if you're keeping up to the stumps it's mandated that you need to wear a helmet

00:40:08if you're fielding within seven meters of the pitch it's mandated you need to wear a helmet so um

00:40:13cricket have had a uh i think a quicker uptake than a lot of other sports in australia it's you know

00:40:18those numbers you quoted uh really huge numbers um and yeah there's when we talk about traumatic brain

00:40:26injury uh given you're in the us there's there's 2.9 million um related emergency department visits

00:40:33every year just in the us on on head head knocks and and what that does to the to the brain with

00:40:38with traumatic injury so it's we know it's a big number um it's only getting bigger um one great

00:40:45thing about virginia tech you know um what i have been able to do with college football you mentioned

00:40:49it was up there and the nfl is because they do wear helmets the amount of data they got i think the

00:40:54last time i was over there there are over two million testing points have done because they

00:40:58are able to you know put some put some some chips and whatnot in the helmets to test it and all that

00:41:04sort of thing um the rfl's got zero because three people wear a helmet they've never had a chip in it

00:41:09so you know the the afl um because we don't wear headgear is yeah we're coming from a base a long way

00:41:17off nfl and american sports because you look at also ice hockey and a lot of lacrosse and all those

00:41:22sort of things you mentioned at least they're wearing something so they're able to get a baseline

00:41:25around you know this is how we need to improve this is why we mandated etc etc and it's huge um

00:41:32whereas australia um you know we're largely coming from uh cricket as you said um and even there was

00:41:37there was a period where they weren't mandated but they are now um yeah we've yeah we seem to be

00:41:42coming from a fair way behind which is which is unfortunate it makes our our ability to evolve and

00:41:48and learn a bit of a slower process and you know and yeah you mentioned the the phil phil phil pugh's

00:41:56one 2014 for those uh listeners internationally maybe aren't aware of this uh cricketer former

00:42:02australian cricketer phil pugh's playing in a in a domestic cricket match at the scg he's playing for

00:42:08south australia 2014 struck in the essentially the back of the head in the way that it ended up and

00:42:15and lost his life i mean it's just so tragic yeah as you say things like that uh they certainly bring

00:42:22it home but um and and and you make a good point too that obviously there is more and more awareness

00:42:28around these things and and statistically obviously every concussion's a very bad situation but it is

00:42:35getting better so in the afl in 2023 there were 66 concussions that then came down to 61 concussions in

00:42:432024 and this year just finished the 2025 season there were 50 concussions so the number is dropping

00:42:49with the awareness in the nfl uh last season was a historic low it was down 17 compared to the season

00:42:57before so there there is some movement there um i just want to touch on something and you mentioned it

00:43:03before the the connection you've got with the panthers juniors that is huge so in the nrl the penrith

00:43:10panthers are a goliath they are they're like you know the patriots in the nfl back in the brady

00:43:18belichick days slash the new york yankees back in the 1920s they they i mean they didn't win the comp

00:43:24this year but they won four in a row not bad i think yeah the last six the last six years they've

00:43:29gone runner-up four premiers and then lost the prelim by a point this year so yeah you can take that

00:43:34mate that isn't a and and the biggest strength i've got who who you know the godfather phil

00:43:40gould started this the the junior and development program they got out at penrith there's like a

00:43:44trillion kids in the development program so they're going to have great teams for the next you know in

00:43:48perpetuity um but the amount of kids they have out there in the western suburbs play rugby league

00:43:54huge that penrith academy and the juniors massive and the fact you've got them and i saw that they've

00:44:00got you up in lights like you know that you're like their main partner you're their main sponsor

00:44:05for penrith juniors rugby league mate that is a huge huge client of yours how did you get that one

00:44:10on board that's massive and one of the big things but i'm an afl based um and the majority of our

00:44:17people are afl backgrounds steven trigg's actually the chair of our board who uh you know ceo of the

00:44:23crows for probably 15 years and carlton for six so you know we are predominantly afl based one one thing

00:44:29that opened our eyes really early was the size of rugby especially at the junior level um you deal

00:44:34with and probably how they do it like for instance you pick a team in the afl unfortunately i'm a

00:44:40cult and supporter um that's you cut the way that's sort of set up is that you go to a national draft

00:44:48which is obviously just about to happen and you select players from all around australia and that's

00:44:51how you get your your talent rugby league on the other hand is is really all about that we've got

00:44:56our junior systems below us to become our feeders so it's very much like the the system in the us

00:45:03you know where it's really school sports based you go high school you go college you go in the big

00:45:08league whereas um i feel a bit different so yeah it was a real owner for us actually around just the

00:45:13depth of the size that these rugby league clubs um had in their junior in their junior ranks so um

00:45:20yeah it was a no-brainer when um when we started out some conversation with um uh the panther junior

00:45:27program they saw what we were doing obviously saw some of our uh testing results um and we just

00:45:33engaged in some conversation they were looking you know for a major partner and yeah you do need to do

00:45:37some of these things where you do some paid partnerships that open up doors because

00:45:42one thing we do follow with rugby as i said there is a a longer history of helmets being worn in the game

00:45:47i mean some of the you know jonathan thurston some of the most elite players of all time um

00:45:53wore some helmets so it's it's not like uh it's more recognizable than take afl for example um and

00:46:00then when we're with them when we start talking to them and the numbers that they could purely put up

00:46:03around how many they got in their junior program i think they're over 10 000 for example uh just at

00:46:07the panthers so um yeah that allows us to have gala days where we get in front of of parents and

00:46:12normally you know it's what we say when we present to local clubs that um there's a lot of people

00:46:17still have opinions and there's still a lot of it out there you know it's we we deal with it every

00:46:21day around there's research that said head head doesn't work um oh one i think that that research is

00:46:27is dated um you know there hasn't been people haven't seen virginia tech haven't looked at all

00:46:33the new things that are happening and the the argument i have there is when people say from a uh

00:46:38an out-of-date uh paper or peer review paper that headgear doesn't work naming one product

00:46:43in the world that has not evolved and got better over time with increased resources increased

00:46:49testing and better technology every single product in the world's got better um so why can't headgear

00:46:54so um yeah what that allows us to do is get in front of parents as i say when we present to local

00:46:59clubs deal some people with doubts we say don't you make the decision now lucky you're the president of

00:47:04the local hoodie or rugby club don't you make the decision let us get in the in front of the

00:47:09parents and let them make the decision they still say no well they've made that choice um but let

00:47:14the one who's really in charge of you know the safety and protecting what matters most being their

00:47:19children's health um make the decision and yeah when we have gala gala days or get to their registration

00:47:25days for um for the penrith juniors there's there's there's 5 000 kids and their their parents yeah

00:47:32really do want to protect them so it's yeah it's it's a great one it's up to a lot of conversations

00:47:36and um and it's just it's been a wonderful partnership but i would say there'd be no more

00:47:41important junior sports club in australia than the penrith panthers juniors and the fact you got them

00:47:46as a key client mate it's huge it's huge and if you can get it and they they until your point and

00:47:51and that rolls right through the the senior penrith panthers they've been great support they've been

00:47:56fantastic support so um you know like any partnership it needs to you need to need to work hand in hand

00:48:01to get get mutual benefits and um yeah they've been they've been nothing but accommodating and um and

00:48:06let us get in front of the parents and the junior players which is where we can make a difference

00:48:10because we're really well aware as i said earlier that um yeah we're not going to go and get

00:48:14um you know hundreds of males who are all females who are 25 26 and been playing the game for

00:48:2318 years and never wanted it that that's a really big behavioral change to get them to

00:48:27all of a sudden whack something on it some will obviously but um let's get the juniors where they're

00:48:31at their peak time and um and hopefully we can get some generational behavior change because like

00:48:35the mouth guard they put it in early they just get used to it yeah definitely i mean it sounds like

00:48:40you've got a great foothold to expand from in rugby league and that can dovetail into rugby union so

00:48:46that's very cool also the north melbourne football club as well you got a very nice partnership there

00:48:52yeah again that was um yeah pardon my problem i say they're no brainers um but with caleb and

00:48:58tristian there i mean um you know probably the tallest man in the in the sport that was uh and

00:49:03the shortest um caleb's a great example caleb's been wearing one of uh helmets since i think he was

00:49:08eight unbelievably um his recent change to us this year he was still wearing the exact same helmet

00:49:16from when he was a junior yeah he was he was he was wearing his first helmet he wore in the 2016

00:49:24premiership and he was wearing it till halfway through this year when he transitioned across

00:49:28to our partners you know he loved that helmet and it's he's kept it obviously it's got to run a

00:49:32premiership sort of history um but yeah he thought that he was in something that gave him a level of

00:49:37protection and it did but um clearly when we took him through the science and the testing of ours he

00:49:42saw what level of protection that gave him so um again it was easy for us to uh to perform a

00:49:48relationship with him and tristian as well um and that then that was that was obviously easy that

00:49:53you know north melbourne had two out of the three players uh in the afl who uh who were known for

00:49:58wearing them so it was was quite easy for us to do a partnership with north melbourne along with

00:50:02um i'm not sure how much you see there in the aflw but their women's team's going for 21 wins in a

00:50:08row or undefeated for 21 wins now which is going to go close to breaking some australian sporting

00:50:13records um i think it might be getting close to the women's cricket team um yeah and they're all about

00:50:19the body armor which is really important that we've got so that they can wear under their guernsey that

00:50:22protects their breasts and their ribs and their kidneys if they want to um yes and north were open to

00:50:27yeah they're a club that uh we need to do with so many clubs i guess you've got something more

00:50:34proactive than this the north certainly were one that were we're uh more on the proactive stage

00:50:40and we want to give our our players um the best chance to be protected whether they want to do that

00:50:46or not that's up to them but um but we want to give them the best products we can to give them the

00:50:49best chance to be protected and yeah so it's been a been another strong partnership as well which um

00:50:54which we're certainly grateful for very much so and you mentioned that and that's another aspect

00:50:58to your business as well the the body protective where for for girls and for women athletes um

00:51:04that's a huge thing greg as well yeah it's it's probably almost uh in the line with the concussion

00:51:11so we've done some research around particularly you know the uh the the physical nature of afl one of

00:51:20the big changes one of the big differences of afl to say rugby league or rugby union um i know nfl's

00:51:26got it as well but certainly not to the level of failures you can get tackled 360 in afl you're um

00:51:31you're you're getting hit fairly but really hard from behind you can get the you know one of the

00:51:35great things about high level marking you can get a knee in the back of the head that you don't see

00:51:38coming um and you can be run down side side on front ways and from behind um so yeah what that what

00:51:47that does is it gives the gives the ability for the girls to to have some extra protection we've done

00:51:52some study around what that looks like um what that looks like um impact to that part of the body

00:52:00particularly the breasts and i think that it's it's like concussion going back all those years um there

00:52:06are studies out there with it that have a different flavor some think it you know hard tissue knocks to

00:52:12that area make the permanent damage others aren't uh yet solved our research will should our research

00:52:18certainly shows you are better if you can prevent those knocks um we do believe that clearly if you

00:52:23get consistently hard knocks to particularly the breast tissue that's not going to be great for you

00:52:28in later life um and we want to help reduce that so yeah look that's a lot of testing again there's

00:52:34some on the market we've tried to um add a greater level of protection but that's that's even more

00:52:40important around comfort and use you know the last thing we want to an elite afl player to be doing

00:52:45his running around with something that restricts their movement and those sort of things so um

00:52:49positive results a lot of girls in the in the sample where we have got some in the afl system um

00:52:54yeah that's that's that's one that we think's going to uh going to increase and and the knowledge

00:53:00around what those continued knocks do and and we'll be on the front foot with it well that's the

00:53:04thing it's so good like getting in early as you said like you know obviously with concussion

00:53:09people in playing contact sports since adam and eve the fact now we've got this magnificent

00:53:14wave of women's elite sport to be able to get in at the front end and cut the problem off at the past

00:53:21before it becomes a a chronic issue like what we see with concussion now yeah such good timing to be

00:53:28able to get in and and make a difference now um very very cool and i want to chat also about the the

00:53:34broader use of your products and you know you mentioned before about all different sorts of

00:53:39whether it's construction mining industry circus performance the healthcare sector the uh older of

00:53:46age people um so a little bit of workplace statistics in 2023 one in five workplace deaths in america

00:53:54according to the u.s bureau of labor statistics happened in the construction industry so one in five

00:54:00workplace deaths and across all industries construction accounted for 47 percent of all fatal falls slips

00:54:09trips as i say thanks to the u.s bureau of labor statistics so like concussion obviously it's one

00:54:15thing to to cop a knock on the footy field it's a hell of another thing when you're just going about

00:54:19your job i mean the ability to to make a real difference in people's lives when they're on the tools

00:54:25that's that's huge too greg yeah it's it's yeah we've recognized four key areas that that um we

00:54:32think we could have an impact in which which which uh we say are our four pillars the sport safety

00:54:36definitely one contact sport uh mining and construction as you just touched on um medical medical

00:54:43particularly in aged care you know the we would have all heard of someone who's had that fall

00:54:47unfortunately and you know when you get older more susceptible to breaking bones and hips

00:54:51particularly um and then military and defense um so that we yeah there's a lot of opportunity uh the

00:54:57one that we consistently discuss at board level when we meet and grapple with is how do we prioritize

00:55:03them um we're only still a small business at the end of the day small startup business um uh in sa so um

00:55:11whilst our our team is growing it's um it's still small so yeah where do we how do we prioritize

00:55:17those what are the opportunities that uh that are there um what are the biggest problems because as

00:55:22i said we do generally balance the the fact that we're a commercial business with where's the where

00:55:27can we make the greatest impact um because if you want to do if you've got some of this that you

00:55:32know can make a positive difference you want to get it to many quickly um uh so yeah they're

00:55:38things we we we work uh on all the time around what's our list of priorities looking like

00:55:43where are we where we spending our resources where we invest in our time um and at the moment it

00:55:49probably sits we have got one small um aged care project going on with our halos um largely you

00:55:56know some of the people susceptible for falls have got a full helmet on with a chin strap so

00:56:00ours allowed to sit down so we're working through that one at the moment probably the one we're doing

00:56:04the the bulk of the working outside of our sport is our is our military defense at the moment

00:56:08and that's around um around blast impact because uh you know as i've been on this journey of my

00:56:13knowledge has evolved greatly um learning from simon the ceo and and the team one the r d team

00:56:19at virginia tech and all the experts that um yeah concussion comes in many forms so

00:56:24most of us would think it's a it's a it's a hit to the head but um you know you take

00:56:28consistently having a rocket launcher on your shoulder um and discharging that or uh a rifle or

00:56:34uh even a yeah think about military personnel what they need to be proficient in discharging

00:56:39a firearm having a gun in a having a gun in um in a in a range getting yourself ready um to be

00:56:46proficient to be deployed uh is thousands and thousands of rounds and why where where's that

00:56:52force going when it goes off it's still that that does hit the head and is a major contributor to

00:56:56concussion in military personnel so that one of the biggest thing we're probably doing with um

00:57:01virginia tech at the moment uh in their blast lab is doing a lot of work around how we can help

00:57:05reduce that uh exposure to military personnel mate that would be huge like to be able to get

00:57:10into the military situation particularly i mean in the us actually there's a there's a good omen for

00:57:15you there's a bloke from queensland called marcus deutch who's one of the ogs of sports tech in

00:57:20australia he he started back i have heard of marcus yeah yeah he's oh he's he's a wonderful bloke

00:57:27he we've had him on the pod uh back in 2023 a wonderful man he's a great friend of the show but

00:57:32marcus so he was doing timing gates you know for for track and field manually with stopwatches and

00:57:38all that back in the 90s like real og sort of stuff and then he came up with the performance data

00:57:44analysis tech uh with fusion sport and like and then he ended up yeah working with the us military

00:57:51then he sold to you know massive company in america and i think he's now like on a yacht somewhere

00:57:56you know sailing to the island he's done well yeah he's cleaned up so if you can follow in those

00:58:01footsteps which i reckon you will um huge so how do you go about that like i know you went on uh the

00:58:08astn uh and the south government did a trade mission to the united states i know you were

00:58:14front and testing that greg and how do you go about trying to conquer the u.s market tell us about the

00:58:20journey you're on with regards that yeah it was it was that was great you know what what the big

00:58:26wrap for what the astn and and in conjunction with the south australian government and um um

00:58:33infrastructure arm are doing because it really did allow i think it was probably i think it was nine or

00:58:39ten um um sports tech in different different things you know from lighting and stadium lighting to to

00:58:45apps to um scoreboards to apparel um shoes and mountain bike gear and us and and your brain health

00:58:53um uh we're doing some wonderful things as well so it was a great great delegation to go and one

00:58:59thing i think a delegation like that does and facilitates is you know takes war for example swan

00:59:05went to the us which is a you just know the size of the scale of a major player um over there uh and

00:59:12all the opportunity exists but if swarm if simon our ceo myself went and we'll try to get some meetings

00:59:17and get in front of people with the influence and trying to understand and learn all the opportunities

00:59:21exist there it's a really tough job by yourself um um so when you can take a delegation that's uh

00:59:30that's got martin and um and and his team um and and backed by the the department of south

00:59:37australian uh economic development as well you get in front of people you just wouldn't be able to do

00:59:41it as an individual company or an individual person so um you learn and you get exposed to people who have

00:59:47walked in your shoes and been successful you also hear the challenges they have you get in front of

00:59:51as i said yeah we had a fantastic uh networking event with the um the consular of uh the australian

00:59:58consular general of uh of los angeles on in bank of america level 57 of the world trade center in

01:00:04in los angeles yeah you just don't get to do that if you go out there by yourself right and and the

01:00:09connections that i had there and all those sort of things is was unbelievable so it's a fantastic

01:00:13delegation certainly recommend anybody um if an opportunity presents to to apply for for the

01:00:19next round and things like do because you'll get exposure uh meetings and experience and learnings

01:00:27that you just you just simply wouldn't get as an individual in individual business so that was

01:00:32fantastic as well as then being exposed to the the uh fellow businesses that we were we were touring

01:00:37with because that gave us opportunity to look at you know your brain health example plus some other

01:00:42technology businesses how we can um take our product to the next level and help um help clubs and

01:00:48parents be as as informed as possible on their children's health so yeah it was it was awesome it

01:00:53was very busy very full-on but certainly what came away with so many learnings already got some

01:00:58relationships back there that particularly simon our ceos have stepped into around you know uh

01:01:05structural advice how you set up in the us how you best uh how you best uh import into there and

01:01:11um you know what you need to consider in a lot of things at the moment tariffs being one but you

01:01:15know what you need to consider in where you would set up if you're manufacturing over there as you

01:01:20know if you do work with the us military a lot of it's got to be us us based so you know where the

01:01:24best process for that would be but yeah it was a it was a fantastic program hectic but just you getting

01:01:31exposure to things you just would not get as a normal business so for that that delegation you know the

01:01:36austin and the south australian government we can't think enough because it was um just something

01:01:41we wouldn't have battled or achieved in our own yeah no well done to you guys for making it you

01:01:45know and for going there and to extract maximum value out of it greg you and your team simon etc and

01:01:51uh yeah well under the south australian government your bloke's going well there malinowskis the premier

01:01:55is uh he's uh yeah it's uh it's you're certainly not like america around uh the level as you know the

01:02:03level of um how people are committed to their politics uh we all vote we all have to it's

01:02:07compulsory americans couldn't believe it was compulsory to vote over here but um yeah it's uh

01:02:14you'd be hard-pressed to um the things that um he's been able to leave and look we've met him i've

01:02:19met him a couple of times far he's just a he's just a he's just a really good person right so i think

01:02:23one of the big things i'm not to go on a rant on politics here but i do talk about it with with

01:02:28others that um yeah one of the things that impressed me most about uh about uh peter is

01:02:34that traditional games of politics where you plan to your opposition and um it's just about throwing

01:02:40who can throw the biggest uh piece of mud i don't think i've heard him talk you know poorly about another

01:02:45opposite you know he embraced that he got some challenges when he took over over government uh

01:02:50he didn't point the finger at who that was or whatever he just yeah he moves forward and um

01:02:54and and deals with the problems in front of him and i haven't heard you know the only thing i've heard

01:02:57him quite around uh elections and that is policy not um not throwing um throwing money elsewhere so

01:03:03i think he gets a lot of respect for just being a a good human yeah bloody play the ball and not the

01:03:08person 100 yeah well done mr malinowskis uh peter as he is to you mr malinowskis uh very cool

01:03:17the honorable premier mr malinowskis yeah yeah an important play important he recently just got voted i

01:03:24don't know how they do this vote but he recently got voted the most popular politician in

01:03:27the world is that right yeah i'm not sure how they cast that and how they stack rank it but that

01:03:33is that is true so yeah fantastic stuff well while they keep investing into sports tech we'll get we'll

01:03:38go with that is number one correct correct yeah fantastic all right well hey uh i got a feeling

01:03:43like within 12 months you guys will be based you'll have an american subsidiary i reckon because that way

01:03:48you get around the tariffs and also you get good for the u.s military that's i'm just crystal balling but

01:03:54but what are for you greg what in five years time uh last question five years time what's the goal

01:04:00what do you want to get done with swarm global we do this chat in five years what do you want to say

01:04:04all right this is what we got done yeah that's a great question it's and we do talk about you know

01:04:11what our purpose is and where we want to make a difference because it is really important um

01:04:16i would i would say you know i've talked about those four pillars and we probably really haven't even

01:04:20exposed two of them around the the medical and the and the mining construction um because you know

01:04:25right now i'd say i'm the two that we're heavily focused on being in sport contact sport safety and

01:04:30and military um yeah i think overall if we made some significant difference so what that would look

01:04:34like clearly australia is our our backyard for contact sport um you know i think success for us would

01:04:39look like we've made significant traction in in aussie rules particularly because we know how brutal

01:04:44that game is um it's a game that we all love um i would love to see that is uh we have got clubs

01:04:51down here clubs and associations who are leading generational change by mandating it clearly state

01:04:57state and and the overall arching body haven't um i'd love to see that's it's mandated for maybe

01:05:03under 12s and below um headgear so that would be a significant thing if we can do that because we

01:05:08are protecting them then when they're at their the most vulnerable plus we're also changing the

01:05:12um changing a little bit of that uh that behavioral appetite that um we've got them wearing them

01:05:18from eight to 12 well they may just continue to wear them the whole way through um so if we could have

01:05:23a mandated a mandated policy uh because there is arguments going down here that you ban junior

01:05:28you ban contact sporting under under 12s and that's just you know all of a sudden you've banned

01:05:34that you've changed the game fundamentally whether it be rugby rugby league uh aussie rules and

01:05:38then they go to under 14s and you're saying you've got to learn almost a whole new game so

01:05:41i'd like to see a proactive step where we we get a lot more um we get some mandated headgear

01:05:46in our contact sport so i think that would be a step for success um we don't expect that that's

01:05:51going to be a hundred percent sport um but if we can get we can lift the bar around what technology is

01:05:56doing uh continually to evolve to get it better and we've got a hundred percent of our kids wearing

01:06:00something i mean that would be a major step forward um and hopefully we've played you know we we are an

01:06:06advocate and uh and stir that stir that up for discussion so hopefully we've we've played a

01:06:11significant part in that um and of course as many people as possible wearing swarm would be great

01:06:16um and then i think on the um yeah as a separate part of the business because it is a separate part

01:06:22around and what we're doing around the the military um that yeah we've yeah this is this is ramping up as

01:06:28a major uh recent four corners episode down here in australia is ramping up as a as a major problem

01:06:34within the military as well we all know one how important your defense force is um that's

01:06:40it's a challenging role um the best of times you know they regularly move and things like that so

01:06:44to be able to uh then then put you know health issues on top of that so if we could have we have

01:06:50done some testing the testing we've done with virginia tech in their blast lab recently

01:06:54now with a biofidelity head that we were able to get maybe the brain in it um we've seen those stats

01:06:58and we know what our technology can do and you know i think a success for us there would be

01:07:05significantly reducing having a product that significantly reduced the exposure for um a blast

01:07:12in military so we've got a graph where we can see where we're at at the minute we want to basically

01:07:17cut that in half so the the evolution of our product to allow defense force personnel to be better

01:07:24protected particularly when they're in non-combat scenarios because the bulk of their firearms are

01:07:29discharged during training um so we can have a different we can potentially have a different

01:07:34form of protection for them in training when no one's shooting back and they don't have weight

01:07:38restrictions on on the helmet and things like that um so i'd love to see that we've led work that has

01:07:44significantly reduced the exposure to military personnel from blast concussion that'd be the

01:07:49they've been the two signs of success for us and you know maybe maybe with a few years late on top

01:07:53of that that's um not so much for me because i'm a small part of the process but maybe our founder and

01:07:58the like and ceo can be on one of those boats in the uh in the caribbean somewhere as well sailing past

01:08:03marcus now you can go on to you and arguing over who can speak is the spear spear got the same fish yeah

01:08:12yes i like uh absolutely magnificent mate well uh you're you're a wonderful advocate for your

01:08:19business greg i appreciate your time very very much i encourage everyone to jump online and have a look

01:08:24swarm double a swarm double a global.com swarm global.com you guys are doing a hell of a thing

01:08:32you're doing god's work and uh may it all go to absolutely great success both in your home market of

01:08:38australia and globally because i think you know you can make a big difference so greg harris thank you

01:08:43so much for your time no i really appreciate it and well done yourself mate always i love seeing

01:08:48australians be successful abroad mate so uh kicking goals yourself so well done to you and and i think

01:08:52just uh you know uh our final call out there to the astn and the south australian government who are

01:08:57you know really doing good things to back back local businesses so um yeah it's uh it's like i think

01:09:03you can have you can have great stuff but you need the opportunity to be able to uh to spread the

01:09:07ring so they've certainly facilitated that for us and this is another process of that so really

01:09:11appreciate your time and invite mate ah thanks very kind of you to say and our final thank you

01:09:16to our friends at daily motion pro daily motion pro check them out daily motion pro john baptiste

01:09:23and the team now uh actually daily motion it's a it's a little bit of a french time because we have

01:09:28the sports tech world series that will happen at the mcg wednesday october 29 and one of the headline

01:09:34acts there is ben simpson who is the innovation boss of paris saint juman another client of daily

01:09:41motion so ben simpson uh he'll lift the lid on the innovation great that is paris saint juman while

01:09:47the great european football teams ben simpson a headline act at the sports tech world series at

01:09:52the mcg you can get your tickets stws.co that is wednesday the 29th of october thank you very much to

01:10:00daily motion thank you very much to you all we'll catch you next week right here on sports cutting edge

Sport's Cutting Edge Episode 102 - World’s Best Concussion Tech, with SWAARM’s Gregg Harris

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