00:08Joining me on 12 minutes this week at the Brussels Economic Security Forum is U.S. Ambassador to
00:13the EU, Andrew Pulitzer. Ambassador, you're very welcome. Thanks for joining us on Euronews.
00:17Pleasure to be here. Thank you.
00:19Earlier this week, the European Commission unveiled what it calls a tech sovereignty
00:24package. And the idea is to remove dependencies on tech companies in China and the United States
00:31in an effort to basically shore up European security. What's your reaction to that? Because
00:36the Europeans say this is necessary. Well, it's a very thick bill, and I have not had a chance to
00:42look through it very thoroughly. But I hope that this tech sovereignty doesn't drive a wedge between
00:49the United States and Europe in the tech area, because I think that it's very important that
00:54they stay united, that we partner with Europe. We've now got a, hopefully by the end of this month,
01:00we'll have a trade agreement. We've got Paxilica, which is an effort to involve our allies, including
01:08the European Union, in the chip industry and our supply chains and in artificial intelligence generally.
01:14We've got a critical minerals memorandum of understanding, so we can try and maybe ring fence
01:19some economies so that we're not subject to economic coercion when it comes to these rare
01:25earth minerals. Europe is behind in the AI race. They're way behind China, and China is behind the
01:31United States. They're not going to catch up. So I think the more they separate from the US AI
01:36hardware stack, which is important if you're going to be in the AI economy, the more they separate
01:41themselves from that, the more negative it's going to be. So I'm hoping it'll be more of a partnership
01:45and less of a competition. But the EU would say, well, we're too reliant on the United States for
01:51financial services as well as digital services. And one example that has come up over the past few
01:55months is the US sanctions on judges at the International Criminal Court, where those judges
02:01who live in The Hague, in a European country, can no longer use their Microsoft accounts and can no
02:06longer use US credit cards or credit cards that everybody else has. So they feel that's not right,
02:12but also they shouldn't be relying on the US for supplying these services.
02:17We definitely have disagreements with these particular judges and the way that they've
02:24dealt with international law and American companies, American individuals, as well as
02:30other people around the globe. But this is a small part of what's involved in a
02:36the massive relationship, a cross-continental relationship that's very, very intertwined.
02:43You really can't, you can't break it up. You can't remove it. You can't, Europe is far enough
02:50behind the United States and China that it really can't catch up. So I don't know that separating off
02:56is going to solve the problems they're trying to solve.
02:58But the point I suppose they're making is that they need to be independent to protect themselves
03:03from a sovereign perspective. But also there are concerns because of the last year or so with the
03:08Trump administration, the Europeans feel slightly under threat or slightly coerced. If you look at maybe
03:14the trade deal that was agreed in Turnberry just at the end of last summer, that there was a 15
03:20%
03:21tariff rate imposed on the Europeans. It wasn't much of a negotiation. You have also the Greenland issue.
03:27So the Europeans feel now is the time not to decouple, but to at least de-risk from the United
03:32States as well as China.
03:34So with the trade agreement, the trade agreement is an effort that President von der Leyen and
03:39President Trump mutually negotiated to try and rebalance a very unbalanced trade relationship.
03:45Our largest trade deficit in the world is with the European Union. Now, it is the largest
03:49trade relationship in the world. But for years, you would pay a 10% tariff to sell a Cadillac in
03:56Berlin, but you'd only pay a 2.5% tariff to sell a Mercedes Benz in Detroit. And nobody in
04:02Europe
04:02seemed to be complaining about the imbalance at that point in time. It's only now that we're
04:06trying to rebalance the relationship that that inequity created that people are complaining.
04:10The 50% tariff you mentioned is on steel and aluminum. And I will also point out that Europe
04:15has a 50% tariff on steel and aluminum. The idea of those tariffs is both to keep out
04:23subsidized product from China, where they're selling steel and aluminum at prices that
04:30really nobody in the world can compete with because they're subsidized by the Chinese government.
04:35So Europe is doing the same thing on steel and aluminum that the United States is.
04:39On Greenland, what the President said was he wouldn't take any options off the table.
04:43Greenland is a very strategically important issue for the United States. It's important for Europe.
04:48I don't think really a year ago, if we had this discussion, people would be as aware
04:53of how strategically important Greenland is. So it's important for the United States. It's important
04:58for Europe. And it's important that people understand that this is an area of the country,
05:02area of the world where China and Russia will try and take advantage. And I think they're a little
05:08more nervous about how the United States would react than they are about how Denmark would react.
05:12So can you say then that Denmark has nothing to worry about? Because we did also see the Prime
05:16Minister of Greenland saying that the US envoy to nuke pretty much had the same intentions as
05:23Donald Trump said he did back in January. Marco Rubio said, Greenland's part of Denmark for now. So
05:27it seems to be a little bit more than highlighting the security threat from Russia and China in the
05:32high north and the Arctic. Well, but it did highlight the security threat. I think that's the important
05:36point here. Whether or not the United States becomes more involved and the extent to which we become
05:41more involved will, in fact, be decided by the President, Secretary Rubio, not by me. But I think
05:46it's important we understand that it's important that the United States be involved and remain
05:51involved in Greenland. And I think it's I think Europe has now realized that it needs to step up
05:57its defense and its position with respect to Greenland. So I think we're headed in the right
06:02direction. Where it ends up, that'll be, as I said, up to the President and the Secretary of State.
06:06And we've seen President Zelensky of Ukraine taking, I suppose, the mantle into his own hands
06:12about trying to end the Russian invasion of his country, where he wrote a letter personally for
06:18President Putin saying that he would like to meet him. Do you think this is a good idea that the
06:23Ukrainians are going to try to take control of the situation and the Europeans maybe? Because obviously
06:27the US is very busy dealing with the Strait of Ormos. So the extent to which the President or Secretary
06:35Rubio are involved in the peace negotiations with Ukraine is obviously something that's
06:40that's in the discretion of the President. I think he's been very open that he wants to see this war
06:47end. I think it's been a great frustration to him that he hasn't been able to bring about an end
06:51to the
06:52war. I have not talked to him about it, but I'd be very surprised if he objected to Putin and
06:57Zelensky
06:57talking, particularly if it ended up with a resolution to this conflict. I think the Ukrainian people
07:02have lasted here much longer than anybody thought they were going to last. I think a lot of people
07:07thought they wouldn't they maybe wouldn't make it a couple of weeks and we're I think we're in year
07:10five. So this is it. They've been incredibly resilient and I hope they bring about an end
07:16to the war. I think it's important to everybody. One of the concerns that Europe has is that the
07:20Americans are moving away from the security architecture of the European continent, which of
07:26course the Europeans are saying this is about time. We need to step up. We need to start paying five
07:30percent
07:30and and so on. But and there's a real fear that that also means in times of war that maybe
07:37our
07:38allies won't be there for them when you look at the sort of NATO force model and the reduction of
07:41the capabilities that are existing there. Do you think America is turning away from the Europe?
07:46Well, I think America is is refocusing some of its energies and resources on dealing with Asia,
07:53which is we we have a competitor in China that really requires that we refocus how we allocate
08:00our resources. And there's certainly nothing wrong with asking Europe to step up and take care of
08:05itself. But look, America came to the defense of Europe twice in the last century. We we defended
08:10Europe throughout the Cold War and actually have defended them since the fall of the Berlin Wall and
08:15the end of the Cold War. So we still have massive numbers of troops here and massive numbers of military
08:21armaments and supplies. There's nothing wrong with the United States cutting back on that
08:25and Europe taking a more assertive role in its own defense. I think that's something we want.
08:30And I believe it's something that the Europeans now realize and that the Europeans want.
08:34I think that some of the fears from the European capitals is that it's happening at a time
08:38when the United States, particularly President Trump, is extremely disappointed. He's made that very
08:42clear to Mark Rutte and so on, and to the Europeans themselves, that about their lack of support in the
08:47aftermath of the U.S. and Israeli strikes on Iran in relation to the Strait of Iran. Has that
08:53situation subsided for Donald Trump? I don't know that it's subsided. I mean,
08:58I know he's very disappointed. We have a situation where the president, at great political risk,
09:05I mean, nobody, you know, his party was not, the MAGA movement is not supportive of foreign wars.
09:11The Democrats were going to oppose him no matter what he did. So without really any political advantage,
09:17he assessed the situation, saw the development of the missiles and the drones in Iran, and they're
09:24continuing to try and get access to a nuclear weapon. They're having that visible nuclear material
09:30where they could create 10 or 11 bombs, and said rather than passing the, kicking the can down the
09:35road or passing the buck, whichever metaphor you want to use, he decided that it was important that
09:40he act, despite the fact that it wouldn't be to his political advantage, because it was the right thing to
09:45do. We have bases in Europe that we have funded and supported for decades. We have countries that
09:52we've rescued in war, and we've been a very reliable ally to. When they won't even let us fly over
09:59their
09:59country or use our bases in their countries, you're going to find the United States, and particularly
10:03President Trump, will be very upset. And I don't know when that subsides, but hopefully it will over
10:10time, but I don't know if it has yet. Do you think that this sort of reaction then at NATO
10:14is part of
10:14that, saying, look, you didn't come to our aid, so therefore we won't be there for you in times of
10:18need, and that's why we're removing capabilities? No, I don't think anybody said that. What I've heard
10:23Secretary Rubio say is, look, we're supportive of NATO, but the reason that we have an alliance is so
10:28that we defend each other and work together. And if that's not how the alliance is going to work,
10:32then we need to reassess it. Nobody, I don't think anybody said, we're pulling out of NATO,
10:36we're going to pull out of NATO. What about the Europeans' perspective when they say NATO is a
10:41defensive organization, this was an offensive war outside the territory of NATO, so therefore
10:47the obligation wasn't for us, particularly when we weren't consulted? I think that's a little too
10:53technical and a little too ignoring of reality. The Iranians have been at war with at least the
10:57United States and Israel for 47 years. I mean, they've been killing people, they've got these
11:02groups like Hamas and Hezbollah that go out and attack the U.S. forces and Israeli forces.
11:10They've now bombed Cyprus, they've bombed, they tried to bomb, they sent a missile down to
11:15the island off of India, Diego, I can't remember what the name of it is, but the island that the
11:20British control off the coast of India. Diego Garcia. Diego Garcia. So I think that's, that may be a
11:26technical explanation that tries to get them off the hook for something they maybe should have done.
11:31Nobody was asking them to send troops. All we wanted to do was fly over, you know,
11:35fly over the countries we defended and use the air bases or the military bases that we maintain in
11:41those countries. So if you're not willing to do that, what are you willing to do?
11:45So it was a big mistake for a small ask, is that what you're saying?
11:48I would say that was a very good summary.
11:51Andrew, Ambassador Andrew Pudson, thank you very much for joining us on 12 Minutes at Euronews.
Comments