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00:00This is a massive one for me.
00:01I've only had the opportunity to speak to this man once before.
00:04And as I said, when I was at Syracuse University in 2001,
00:08if you would have asked me who my dream interview would have been,
00:10it would have been this man because I looked up to him so much.
00:13I felt like there was a little part of me in him as well.
00:16And I think that's probably what endeared him to so many people.
00:19He was the everyman.
00:20Always tells it like it is.
00:22Greatest wrestling author of all time.
00:24One of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time.
00:27The hardcore legend himself and just about a week and a half or so ago
00:31returned to the wrestling scene.
00:33This time in AEW, he shows up, double or nothing,
00:37Louis Armstrong Stadium, massive, massive deal.
00:40He's there with Rene Paquette, old friend, there with MJF, Darby Allen.
00:44And it seems like he's now a part of the family.
00:47And so let us talk to the great mankind, Cactus Jack, dude, love,
00:51Mick Foley about all of this and more.
00:53There he is.
00:54Hey, thank you, Ariel.
00:56You had told me I was your dream interview a long time ago.
01:01And did I ask you if you had Professor Bob Thompson as a teacher?
01:05You did, and I did.
01:07Yeah, yeah.
01:08What a great guy he was.
01:09I haven't seen him in years.
01:10But, you know, there's people who play a role in your life.
01:13And you don't quite understand that until time goes by.
01:16But he was one of those guys.
01:18Amen.
01:18Yeah, one of the all-time greats.
01:19Certainly when talking about media and its effects on society and pop culture.
01:25He always shows up in all those documentaries.
01:27Yeah, it sure does, yeah.
01:28I love that.
01:29And I love that you're here.
01:30Thank you so much for doing this, Mick.
01:31I really do appreciate it.
01:33You know, you showed up just a couple weekends ago, as I said, Memorial Day weekend at AEW.
01:38And, obviously, that's the main reason why we want to have you on.
01:40But I'd love to kind of go back a few steps.
01:43And back in December, you did announce that you were not going to resign with WWE as far as your
01:48Legends deal is concerned.
01:49And you wanted to kind of sever ties and take a break, given their association, and correct me if I'm
01:54getting this wrong, with the current president.
01:56And so can I ask you about that decision?
01:58What led you to making that decision and announcing it to the world?
02:01Because it was massive news when you did.
02:02Well, you know, everyone has to make the decision that feels right to them.
02:08And I just, you know, it was a – I sometimes describe someone's big break as being more like a
02:17series of little breaks, like a ball, peen hammer, and a windshield.
02:20You don't know which tap actually causes the crack, but without a multitude of them, that windshield's not cracking at
02:28all.
02:28So, for me, it was the comments about Rob Reiner, just heartless, unbelievably cruel comments coming from the most powerful
02:41man in the world finding joy in how somebody died.
02:45I don't want to paraphrase, but belittling the man who just died, somehow tying it into his own death, into,
02:54you know, Reiner's dislike of Donald Trump.
02:58And for me, that was the ball, peen hammer, tap that broke the windshield.
03:02And I just think WWE had a very cozy relationship where there was definitely the illusion of a relationship there,
03:18the perception, rather.
03:20I think when five different people are posing in the Oval Office and they've all received Stone Cold Stunners, that's
03:28a little cozy.
03:28And Ariel, I felt like, even though I wasn't technically employed by the company, but because I had a Legends
03:35deal, because my name's been associated with WWE for over 30 years, that I was complicit in my silence.
03:43And so, I did speak up.
03:45I reached out to the head of town relations, who I consider a friend, who I still write handwritten letters
03:51from Santa to every year, send the videos out.
03:54I don't brag about much, Ariel, but they are the best Santa videos in the business.
03:59And I can prove that if you ever want to have me on with a showcase, a couple of these
04:04videos.
04:04I take a lot of pride in them.
04:06And so, basically, you know, I give up the Legends deal that runs out at the end of this month.
04:13I realized that by giving up two really easy, very high-paying jobs at WrestleMania week for WWE, that I
04:22had to work 24 hours on my own to make what I could have been six.
04:27And I'm okay with that.
04:29So, I'm good with my decision.
04:32Everyone, I think, has to make a decision that's right for them.
04:36And in my case, I just didn't want to be in a position where my grandchildren are asking what their
04:41grandfather was doing when things were really, you know, tough.
04:46And I want my children to be able to say, this is what Grandpa did.
04:50So, I made the move that I felt was right for me.
04:53I love that company.
04:55I'm not going to disparage them.
04:58But it didn't seem like a good fit.
05:01It didn't seem like a fit that would allow me to look at myself in the mirror before I went
05:05to bed.
05:06When you make that call and tell them that you'd like to do this and you feel this way, do
05:10they try to convince you to change your mind?
05:13Do they have a conversation?
05:14Or is it just like, okay, thanks for the call and we'll talk down the line?
05:18Well, the first one was, you know, I respect your stance and I'll tell the people that, you know, that
05:25I'll tell the people in charge.
05:29And then I did receive a call from someone really high up.
05:32I don't know if he wants me to mention his name, but he was saying, you know, well, Paul is
05:37just on the physical fitness, like the physical fitness, not the bureau, but they're whatever the name physical fitness group
05:50they have is.
05:51And he said, and Linda hasn't worked in WWE in, you know, X amount of years.
05:55And I said, well, theoretically, that's the case.
05:59But I could have sworn I saw Paul behind the president's shoulder when he was making foreign policy, which I
06:05think is true.
06:06And it's like whether Linda's been working for the company or not, her last name is McMahon and she's associated
06:11with the company.
06:12And then I said, come on, five people in that Oval Office took the stunner.
06:16And so he appreciated it.
06:19He did say he respected it.
06:21I didn't close the door forever.
06:23I said in my announcement, you know, as long as this man's in office, I think more and more people
06:28are realizing that some of the things he's doing are just cruelty for the sake of cruelty and enriching himself.
06:35And, I mean, his polls, I'm not here to talk politics.
06:39Let's skip this after here.
06:41But it is a big, it is the reason I left WWE.
06:45I just want to tell people who are listening that it's never too late to do the right thing.
06:51The best time to have made your voice heard would have been earlier.
06:55But the second best time is now.
06:57And if this guy's, this guy, President of the United States, ratings dip into, you know, the teens, then maybe
07:05he'll be forced to make some changes.
07:07Nobody wants to go down as the worst president in the history of this country.
07:11So maybe, maybe I'm naive, but maybe you can appeal.
07:15If there are better angels of his nature, maybe they can still be appealed to.
07:21But I'm not so sure there are.
07:22He's definitely a different type of person, and I don't mean that in a good way.
07:28Just curious, did you hear from Paul Levesque?
07:31No, no, I did not hear from Paul or any of the McMahon family.
07:35You know, that's the one, that's the saddest part is that I really did have great history with Paul and
07:42was a good friend of Paul's and Stephanie's at their wedding.
07:45Vince McMahon meant so much to me.
07:47So I knew going in that that was probably going to affect those friendships.
07:51But in an earlier post I did that got a lot of attention, I pointed out that, you know, throughout
07:58my 15 full-time years in wrestling, I drove with a multitude of driving partners.
08:05These are people you would see more often than you saw your own family.
08:08You drove with them.
08:09You split a room with them.
08:11You did your meals with them.
08:12You went to the gym.
08:13When I went to the gym.
08:14And I was looking at it like, wow, with the exception of one guy, Jim Cornette, I wouldn't have called
08:19any of these people progressive.
08:21Like, they were either independent or cute a little bit conservative.
08:28And I didn't have a problem with anybody.
08:31So I think we just need to get back to a point where we can understand that we need two
08:38strong parties, but we don't need someone, you know, just dominating to the point where, you know, our elected leaders
08:48are just making votes they know are wrong because they don't want to fall out of favor with this president.
08:56So, Ariel, let's not give this guy any more time.
08:59No, no, I'm trying to get to how we get to the AEW deal.
09:03Sure.
09:04And so I just wanted to establish that.
09:06How soon after you make that announcement does someone from AEW reach out to you and gauge your interest in
09:12working for them?
09:13Well, it had been a little while past.
09:17Now, I have known Tony Khan for 15 years.
09:20So I had a really good lunch with Tony before he got into wrestling.
09:26in Jacksonville.
09:28And, you know, I always considered him, if not a friend, then a friendly acquaintance.
09:32Like, even during AEW shows, I would direct message him.
09:38For example, I would say, hey, Tony, is it possible to get the rights to Thunderstruck by ACDC for Thunder
09:45Rosa?
09:45Or I might say, wow, that's a great show.
09:48And I really was not testing the waters.
09:51I was just reaching out to somebody who I liked to let them know that I was enjoying his product.
09:58A few years back, I was asked if I'd be interested by fans.
10:02I was getting that a lot.
10:03And I joke around.
10:04I'd say, well, I think they've got the old guys standing around ringside.
10:08They've got that market cornered.
10:10And they did at that time.
10:11But things have changed.
10:14And I think that it more effective, you know, sometimes less is more.
10:17So they don't have as many managers.
10:19I knew I wasn't interested in doing a, like a figurehead.
10:28Commissioner type?
10:29Yeah, yeah.
10:30Yeah, that's, yeah, commissioner.
10:32I was looking for the right word.
10:34Figurehead commissioner, general manager.
10:36Because I've done that before.
10:37And I think the shows actually work best when there's not as much shine on the figurehead commissioner.
10:45Authority figure, I was thinking.
10:46And then Barry Bloom, my agent, came to me.
10:51And he said, I've been talking with, he asked me if I wanted him to talk.
10:58And I said, yeah, yeah, I would like that.
11:02So we did.
11:04He had a nice talk with Tony Khan.
11:06Then I had a nice talk with Tony Khan.
11:08And this is months after, you know, the decision with WWE went down.
11:13Because honestly, Ariel, I was really happy and content doing my own thing.
11:18Life, the nostalgia world is treating me pretty kindly.
11:21Especially after the pandemic.
11:24And I was out there literally 330 days on the road last year.
11:28Which is more than I was ever on.
11:31Now, there might be times when I have two days off.
11:33And instead of flying home to spend eight hours with my kids and flying back, I'll just stay on the
11:39road for two days.
11:40And relax and recoup.
11:42But in those 330 days, I didn't even get a cough or a cold.
11:48Five years, at a certain point, five years running, I'd gotten pneumonia every single year.
11:55And then I would get a diagnosis.
11:57Okay, you need two weeks bed rest.
12:00In my ear, I'd hear two weeks bed rest.
12:03The other ear would be coming out going, okay, you'll be on that plane tomorrow to Dallas.
12:07And you're not missing a day of work.
12:10But now you see Kyle Busch died of pneumonia.
12:14And man, I'm going to put myself in the best possible position to not get sick like that.
12:19By really trying to take care of myself.
12:22I've lost a lot of weight.
12:23I'm eating healthier.
12:24I'm feeling better.
12:26I believe in the healing powers of Crystal Gale's voice also.
12:30That's been a big deal.
12:31I'm wearing a shirt here.
12:32Yes.
12:34I love it.
12:35And congratulations, by the way.
12:36A hundred pounds, I do believe, you've lost.
12:38Yeah, yeah, I sure have.
12:40Yeah, thanks, Ariel.
12:41I appreciate that.
12:42I just have to remember how good it feels walking now.
12:46So I never go down, to quote a Crystal Gale song, down that wrong road again.
12:52So, yeah, 272.
12:53I did get down to 258.
12:55Wow.
12:56Which was over.
12:57And now I'm like hovering in the mid-260s.
13:00Okay, wow.
13:00Well done.
13:01Well done.
13:01You did mention something there.
13:03You had lunch and started to know Tony Khan 15 years ago.
13:07Yeah, yeah.
13:08What was the circumstance around that?
13:09Because that was long before he got into all of this.
13:11Yeah, it was.
13:12You know, Alex Marquez is a journalist in South Florida.
13:16Why he knew the Jaguars, I don't know.
13:19But he said, hey, a friend of mine is a big fan of yours.
13:22His father owns the Jaguars.
13:24He's a good guy.
13:25And we know you're in town.
13:28Would you like to have lunch with him?
13:29I said, yeah, sure.
13:31And I haven't forgotten it.
13:32Like, you know, he's got that indomitable spirit, right?
13:38To see Tony backstage, it's really, the word I'm coming up with, joyous,
13:46because he's filled with joy in that position.
13:49Like, he jumps up.
13:52The first thing he does is ask people if they're okay.
13:55And then he's happy.
13:57He's really happy.
13:58And I'm not saying, you know, I've said, I've said many times,
14:03there's no one way to cross the finish line, you know,
14:06whether it's wrestling or portraying Santa Claus or whether it's producing a
14:11pay-per-view show.
14:12But I have to tell you, you know,
14:14as a guy who always reacted better to a pat on the back than a kick in the
14:19butt, that style would have really, I would have really enjoyed that style.
14:24And Mr. McMahon had his own style.
14:26And, of course, when he put you over, it meant a lot.
14:29He didn't do it nearly as much.
14:30But he didn't jump up from his seat to meet the talent that was coming through.
14:38But you had to take the walk over there.
14:40So I just marveled at it.
14:43I mentioned I did a little thing a couple days ago where I said,
14:48after I did my in-ring promo, I think it was Darby who said,
14:52hey, I guess you're going to take off now.
14:54And I said, Darby, what am I going to do?
14:56Go to my hotel and watch Friends reruns?
14:58Like, this is going to be not only a show, this is going to be a great show.
15:02And I'm still a wrestling fan.
15:04So I watched some of the matches and catering, which is what we usually do.
15:08And I grabbed a couple of the guys and I said, hey,
15:11I'd really like to be out there just to feel the emotion.
15:16And they had a player's entrance where we could stand in the player's tunnel
15:19and take in the emotion without attracting too much attention.
15:24And I saw what appeared to me to be one of the greatest pay-per-view shows I've ever witnessed.
15:31Wow.
15:32So you liked it that much.
15:34As far as your role now, what is it?
15:36You showed up on the pre-show.
15:38You had the deal with Rene and Darby and MJF.
15:41What is your role in AEW?
15:44Well, I think my role is to be the Swiss army knife of AEW.
15:48And I'll work in wherever I can and wherever they need me best.
15:52There's quite a few things I can do.
15:54I can host those shows with Rene.
15:56Rene is so much fun to work with.
15:59I think I could do a good job on publicity for being sent out a day or two early to
16:05get some publicity.
16:07I believe I could take on a managerial role for a handful of misfit baby faces or heels
16:16and try to take some of the guys in the middle of the card
16:20and give them a little boost up a little closer to the top of the card.
16:25One thing I want to say, Ariel, is that this is one of the first things I said to Tony,
16:30is that AEW has done a really good job of making their mid-card mean something.
16:36And that's one place where I will compare them, the two companies,
16:41and say they do a much better job in the mid-card.
16:46I think there's just a little bit more pride.
16:48I think, you know, going back to the way WWE did things,
16:53they would build a tag team for two, three years,
16:57have them win the tag team title multiple times,
17:01and then two big stars who'd never teamed would face the tag team and destroy them,
17:08showing you that the tag team was never that important to begin with.
17:12That would be the message that I would get as a fan.
17:15And I don't think you see that type of thing.
17:19That was one of the things that drew me into AEW,
17:22because I had, you know, as long as we were going with a Friends reference,
17:26I was taking a break from wrestling for a couple of years.
17:32My children were all grown-ups, and they were no longer living in the house.
17:36And we all loved watching wrestling together.
17:39And when they weren't there, I found myself no longer drawn to it.
17:43And then I started hearing some waves about AEW, about WWE as well.
17:48And I started tuning in to both shows,
17:51and I honestly just felt like I gravitated more to the AEW product.
17:57Can I give you a theme park comparison?
18:00Sure.
18:00Ariel?
18:00Sure.
18:02I love my theme parks, right?
18:04Santa's Village in New Hampshire, Storyland in Glen, Vermont.
18:11And there's a couple other phenomenal family-owned amusement parks.
18:15Holiday World in Santa Claus, Indiana, and Knoebels Grove in Elysburg, Pennsylvania.
18:21So, in the case of Storyland, wow, a family-owned and operated for some 60 years,
18:30and then a corporation bought it.
18:33And two years later, I go with my family.
18:36And on some accounts, it's nicer because they've had the money to put in a couple cool new rides.
18:42But it just loses a little bit of the magic.
18:46Do you know what I mean?
18:47And what I feel from watching the two shows is that AEW has that little bit of magic,
18:56and WWE has kind of lost it.
19:01I think when you're part of a corporation, and the bottom line is everything,
19:08you take away from your mid-card by making it clear that what you're selling is more important
19:13than the product in the ring.
19:17And I wonder if that's why, I mean, I have a lot of young fans who weren't even born when
19:24I was wrestling.
19:25And they'll come up to me, and they'll talk to me about matches.
19:28Now, I can't prove this, but I wonder if part of the reason the younger audience is drawn to matches
19:33from my era
19:34is because we called the matches.
19:36Like Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler were locked in on the matches.
19:42There weren't so many things they had to go to that would take people out of that suspension of disbelief.
19:52That's just a theory on my part, but I think, you know, 10, 20 years down the line,
19:58the matches that JR called, whether it was with the King or whether it was Jim Cornette in WCW,
20:06they'll stand the test of time, I think, better than the current matches in WWE
20:12because it seems like the matches are a means to an end, instead of something to be enjoyed for themselves.
20:20So I just feel like at this point, AEW has a—the personal ownership shows in a way,
20:30and a love and a feeling of magic that I don't think the corporate ownership of WWE displays nearly as
20:38well.
20:38I do also wonder if there's any part of you that sees yourself in AEW, and maybe even in Tony.
20:47You know, last week I said, I called Tony the little engine that could,
20:50and some of the fans online were like, how could you call a billionaire the little engine that could?
20:54But if you actually understand what's going on here, it's one singular guy, not backed by anyone else,
20:59no greater entity supporting him, going up against this machine and not backing down.
21:04He, to me, is the little engine that could, and you have always been that guy.
21:07You've always been the underdog. You've always been the sort of guy that everyone—you know,
21:10you wrestled in sweatpants, for goodness sakes, when you were at your peak.
21:13And so I wonder if you—you kind of connect more with that as opposed to what you're seeing on the
21:18other side of the fence.
21:19Do you feel that way now that you've been there backstage?
21:21That's a really good question. I do. I think I do connect.
21:25I do connect with a guy like Tony who's a little bit different.
21:28You know, it just—I gave the promo about Darby because I knew he was a guy who was different.
21:34And a lot of people find comfort in professional wrestling because they may not be as comfortable with themselves,
21:42you know, outside of that world.
21:46And the biggest—I think the best move I ever made in wrestling was having the confidence to believe
21:52that I could speak to fans who were outside of the fans we were marketing to.
22:00Like, I remember thinking, not everybody's hip and slick and cool.
22:04I knew for a fact I'm not hip and slick and cool.
22:07I remember thinking to myself, there's a lot more of me out there than there is of them.
22:13And that's why—let me see, trying to think of the time zone.
22:18Late 88, summer of 98, sorry, summer of 98, after the cell match, I started—I took a bet.
22:31I gambled on believing there was an audience that would be open to a kinder, gentler type of wrestler.
22:40You know, we'd still get in the ring and do what needed to be done.
22:44But somebody who said, please—I remember Vince McMahon one time when I drove into the parking lot
22:53for my empty arena match with Wayne Johnson.
22:55And I said thank you to the driver, and he was like, thank you, thank you.
23:01Because at that point, like, Steve Austin was so big, and that's great, but there's a reason
23:08why he became Steve Austin, because he was a singular character.
23:11But what I saw in the locker room was a lot of people trying to be Steve Austin light,
23:16which meant nobody was actually kind of hard, gentle in the least.
23:21You know, you'd have somebody, a bad guy, come into the baby-faced dressing room and say,
23:27hey, I'd like to talk to you for a second.
23:29The good guy would start beating him up in the dressing room.
23:31I was like, that doesn't seem like something a good guy would do.
23:36And I just—I took a gamble.
23:38And I believe that's why wrestling in general reaches people who don't feel like they quite fit in.
23:46And I think my character in particular reached out to those people and made them feel like it was okay
23:52not to be like everybody else.
23:54So in that same vein, I see guys, guys like Darby Allen.
23:59I see a handful of guys that I might be able to take in as a stable of sorts, you
24:06know,
24:06who don't look like what wrestlers are supposed to look like or act or think like they are.
24:11I just think there's room for everyone in AEW.
24:18I really do.
24:19And it goes without saying that the better AEW does, the better it is for WWE's talent.
24:26And in the end, I'm all about wanting the men and women to make money and save money as well
24:33and live happily ever after.
24:34No one put their body through more than you.
24:37And when you see what Darby is doing to himself week in and week out,
24:40is there any part of you that would like to tell him at some point,
24:44hey, you don't have to do this much?
24:45This is going to really hurt in 20 or so years?
24:50Yes, I will have that conversation.
24:52I didn't think the time to have the conversation was hours before his biggest match.
24:58I've been told that he's people have had that conversation with him.
25:04And he says, everybody does their best stuff in the pay-per-views.
25:08I owe it to my fans to do it on every televised event.
25:12So I'll try to, you know, I'll try to talk with Darby.
25:16I didn't know until about six weeks ago that I was an inspiration in his career.
25:21Because I'd known him since he was probably 17 years old, going back 10 years.
25:27I don't know the exact timeline.
25:29I don't know exactly how old Darby is.
25:31But he was just, he really was the quiet kid who looked like he didn't quite fit in.
25:36So the promo I gave that genuinely seemed to fire him up was all from the heart.
25:42And they were all factual.
25:43They were all statements based in fact.
25:45But I will have that talk with him and try to find out, like, it's got to be another gear
25:52where you can allude to the things, give people 80% of what you usually do, knowing that the vast
26:05majority of his fans will be thankful for what he gives them.
26:10And they will understand that they might have to wait until a special event to get the, you know, the
26:17100% Darby.
26:18But I understand many a man has tried and failed.
26:27But I'll give him the best advice I possibly can.
26:32In my opinion right now, the best heel in the business is MJF.
26:37Oh, yeah, yeah.
26:37I think he's on fire.
26:38We'd love to hear your thoughts on him and how he did in that match.
26:41But overall, the body of work, what he's been doing as of late.
26:46Well, I was sold on MJF from the moment I saw him at an independent show in Alaska.
26:55Maybe 2018, 19, somewhere around there.
27:01I thought, man, what a fantastic, like, independent heel this guy is.
27:06Honestly, I didn't think he could project toughness at that point.
27:10And I thought, hey, nothing wrong with being a great independent heel.
27:13But I don't know if he can project toughness to the point where he can contend with the top guys
27:18in either organization.
27:19And I'm happy to admit I was wrong on that because he does.
27:25He can and he does.
27:27And he was good already on the microphone.
27:30But this guy, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say he's the best in the business on the microphone
27:36right now.
27:38He's, man, he's good.
27:39I mean, he's not good.
27:40He's great.
27:42When I was toe-to-toe with him, I don't know if I quite did justice to the words in
27:49my head where I was saying,
27:50I want to say, can we just take a moment to appreciate this, the magnitude of what's happening right now?
27:58Because I didn't think I was ever going to be in a ring, maybe in a ring that size, waving
28:04to people, thanking them for their kindness.
28:09But I didn't think I'd be in a ring helping create interest for a main event.
28:15And, I mean, that was one of the first things Max did when he came through.
28:19And he told me, you really helped set the tone.
28:23So you have people rooting for each other, thinking of each other, going back to Max.
28:29Yeah, he's amazing.
28:31And I really respect what he says about not needing a WrestleMania moment.
28:36Because, Ariel, I'm going to tell you that in life and in wrestling, we get to select our own WrestleMania
28:44moments.
28:44You know, I'm finishing up my one-man show.
28:47I've got, I think, three shows left.
28:50And I alternate stories.
28:52But the core stories is three or four core stories that stay the same.
28:56And two of them were matches in front of 150 people or less.
29:01And they become so meaningful because of the work that was put in and the length we went to to
29:09make it special.
29:10And no one will tell me those moments were not as good as appearing in front of 101,000 people
29:18at WrestleMania in Dallas.
29:19Don't get me wrong.
29:20That was amazing.
29:21But I even said in my Santa memoir, man, there was, I was visiting a child who a few days
29:29earlier had, was just completely exhausted.
29:32Didn't have a hair on his head and asked his mom if I might be able to visit on Christmas
29:38Eve.
29:39Long story short, I didn't get a call because the young man hadn't been sent home until late on Christmas
29:46Eve.
29:46But I made my way over to that house the next day.
29:49And he was like a new child.
29:51He was running around.
29:52And Ariel, I think what I did as Santa in that room was one of my top ten performances in
30:02my life.
30:02I looked over at the three adults.
30:04They had tears streaming down their eyes.
30:06And I walked out to my car and I thought, I just had a WrestleMania moment.
30:11So, anyone out there, whatever field you're in, I really believe we get to pick our own WrestleMania moments so
30:19that we don't allow anyone else to decide what success is.
30:25Like, we get to do that for ourselves.
30:26So, I'm right on board with Max saying, like, you know, don't leave a company you love to chase this
30:32elusive WrestleMania moment that you can actually create for yourself.
30:37We talked about the weight.
30:39We talked about the state that you're in, your health.
30:43Is there any part of you that wants that final match?
30:46Do you want to have it in AEW?
30:47Tony was asked about it.
30:48He left the door open.
30:50I know you've been through so very much and certainly don't need it.
30:53And no one really retires ever in pro wrestling.
30:56Is there any part of you in the back of your mind that says, you know what, I'd like to
30:59do one final one and I want it to be in AEW?
31:03Well, it's definitely crossed my mind.
31:05And, you know, the cinematic matches have opened up the door for guys whose cardio may be suspect.
31:11But I'll tell you what, this loss of 100 pounds made my life so much easier.
31:16Like, I used to have to stop a couple times just walking up a moderate hill.
31:21And now I don't even realize I'm walking up hills when I do them because I'm not really getting winded.
31:27Not like I used to.
31:29I don't know.
31:31I think that clearly if I had a match, it would have to be a match that would avoid trauma
31:38to the head.
31:39Luckily, there's a whole lot of me to traumatize below the neck.
31:44So I think, yeah, I think I have one more or less good match in me.
31:48Wow.
31:49I just believe it would have to be, all the stars would have to align.
31:53All the stars would have to align.
31:56It would have to make sense.
31:58And, Ariel, honestly, like maybe that long-term goal of dropping an elbow off a TV truck onto a parked
32:04car.
32:05Um, I had a serious talk with myself and realized just how much my hip replacement and later a knee
32:12replacement changed my life.
32:14And I don't think they've got statistics on former knee replacement recipients dropping elbows off of TV trucks to parked
32:24cars.
32:25Like, as a 50-50 chance, it could undo all of the good that it brought me.
32:32I don't know if I'm ready to take that chance.
32:34But I find my mind wandering sometimes coming up with ideas that look better than they hurt, that rate higher
32:43on the instantaneous fully risk-reward ratio analysis.
32:46And if I can come up with enough of those type of moves that allow me to, you know, to
32:53risk a little bit less while still giving fans a good match,
32:57and if I feel like I'm up to it, then maybe a couple of years down the road, we will
33:02look into that.
33:03Stranger things have happened.
33:05I know hindsight is 20-20.
33:06You allude to the risks.
33:07You allude to the injuries.
33:09Are there any that you wish you could take back that you wish you didn't do?
33:13Well, we didn't know nearly as much.
33:15Let me get Crystal some airtime there.
33:17Hold on.
33:17Yeah.
33:18She looks fantastic.
33:19Well done.
33:19Doesn't she look amazing?
33:20Yeah.
33:21Have you ever met her, by the way?
33:22What's that?
33:23Have you ever met her?
33:24I have not, but we've been exchanging a couple of messages after I posted with her shirt.
33:29Well done.
33:30And I wrote her a handwritten letter.
33:32Wow.
33:32Which she received.
33:33I take a lot of pride in my handwriting.
33:35Ariel, I'm not sure if you knew that about me.
33:37No, I do.
33:37Yeah.
33:38I write the handwritten letters from not too many kids watching your show, right?
33:43No, no.
33:44Okay.
33:44Well, let's just say Santa needs helpers.
33:47She can't be expected to deliver toys around the globe and write all the letters.
33:51So I write about 40 letters a year, handwritten, and they go out to people like The Undertaker
33:58and Adam Copeland and Trish Stratus and Nora Jones.
34:02And Jewel was on that list until her son kind of aged out.
34:06And Kevin Owens.
34:07Like, it's a who's who.
34:09Wow.
34:09Even The Miz.
34:10Even The Miz is a big fan of the letters.
34:12Um, so I believe in the power of the handwritten letter because it shows some caring.
34:18And, uh, today there'll be a really nice video, a really nice, uh, story that I worked
34:23on, I think, for five or six hours talking about how Crystal helped, um, you know, uh,
34:29bring me out of a little bit of a dark, dark place I was in.
34:33So.
34:33How long ago was that?
34:35Yeah.
34:35I think it's not just about being a fan boy.
34:37It's about finding strength and, and, uh, inspiration in unlikely places.
34:43So that'd be my Facebook, facebook.com slash real Mick Foley, or just go to my website,
34:50uh, real Mick Foley.com to learn more about that.
34:53By the way, that dark place that you're talking about, how long ago was that?
34:56Oh, a couple months.
34:58Yeah.
34:59Okay.
34:59It was with my mom's passing and, uh, from dementia, uh, looking at my family's, uh, history,
35:07long history with dementia, throwing in my long history of head injuries and thinking
35:12that, yeah, maybe, uh, you know, maybe I didn't have so many good years left.
35:17Um, and, uh, you know, Crystal Gale's music in and of itself is not going to make a hundred
35:25percent difference, but to find out who your friends are, lost a couple of friends along
35:30the way, uh, like who have, that are no longer friends that are not that they're not here with
35:34us and, um, with, with family and friends, a little bit of prayer, a little bit of therapy,
35:40uh, come out, uh, brighter and happier, uh, really, really in a good place.
35:47And, but part of that was the music of this lady.
35:50I love that.
35:51Part of it was that.
35:52Yeah.
35:52Yeah.
35:53Hey, so as long as we're mentioning it, just people should know that we all get knocked
35:57down, right?
35:58We all get knocked down, whether it's physically, emotionally, just a matter of getting back
36:03up, you know, um, we all fall, we all get back up, never heard a better quote in my life
36:09than that of Sylvester Stallone.
36:10When he said, life's not about how hard you can hit life's about how hard you can get it and
36:16and keep getting up and moving forward.
36:18That's how when it's done.
36:20So, uh, life hit me pretty hard and, uh, I decided I wanted to get up and keep moving
36:26forward, Ariel.
36:27And I'm sorry about the, the loss of your mom as, as a proud, I feel your pain there.
36:32So, um, I appreciate you, you mentioning that.
36:35Um, I did want to go back to the question of regret.
36:37Do you have any regrets regarding what you put your body through?
36:40Yeah, well, that, yeah, I started saying we don't know as much about, um, head injuries.
36:48So, you know, when I was coming in, you know, uh, first of all, concussion was something you
36:54shook off, right?
36:56It wasn't even stuff.
36:58And unless you were knocked out, it wasn't even considered a concussion.
37:02Um, uh, so I didn't, I didn't put my hands up to block chairs.
37:07Um, and that, that was a mistake.
37:12Um, as I got older in WWE and started dealing with a lot of, uh, everyday pain, just, just
37:23aching, right?
37:24I, like, I, I didn't take as many risks as people thought, but there was always a lot
37:29of impact in what I did.
37:32And it would be, you know, like the clothesline over the top rope would often end in a, a bruise
37:39of the thigh, right?
37:40Because I hit that ring apron hard and it'd be like, is it a really bad one?
37:44Is it like the Charlie horse?
37:45You can barely walk.
37:47No, not often, but it's always going to be hurting.
37:50And, uh, so I, I treated my pain with late night comfort food.
37:59And at a time when it really would have behooved me to go from two 80 to two 50, I
38:06went from
38:06two 80 to three 10.
38:09It wasn't, it was seemingly, it was not affecting my matches at that point.
38:14But I also realized that when my knees were bad and I couldn't do some of the things
38:19that I liked to do, that I was leading with my head more and that I was taking chair shots
38:25at house shows, chair shots to the head unprotected.
38:29I clearly wish I hadn't done that.
38:32The other one, Ariel is, uh, uh, I shouldn't have been dropping those elbows off the ring
38:37apron onto the concrete, unless there was a TV camera on.
38:40And even then you argue, I shouldn't have been doing that.
38:44That was my big move.
38:45I thought people, this is where the Darby Allen philosophy comes in.
38:50I think everyone should see the best matches I have.
38:53And so it's, it's a kind of a catch 22 because I would, I would say, yes, I wouldn't have
39:00done
39:00those things, but it was doing those things that made me who I was that got me where I
39:07went.
39:08Um, but I still should have put my hand up when I saw metal objects traveling at high
39:13speed.
39:14So that's going to be my final answer.
39:16Should have put my head up, hand up.
39:18Uh, I will never forget, uh, taking my seven year old sister to the movie theater to watch
39:23a film called beyond the mat in 1999.
39:26Uh, a movie that I still say till this day, it's beyond the mat and wrestling with shadows
39:31for different reasons, greatest wrestling documentaries of all time.
39:33And you were obviously a principal character in beyond the mat.
39:36And it was very sad to hear about, uh, Barry Blaustein's passing recently.
39:40Um, what a talent, what an unbelievable mind is someone who truly respected the wrestling
39:44business.
39:44And it got me to think, and here's your tribute to Barry, who I know you considered a dear
39:48friend.
39:49And it was just such an amazing film.
39:50Um, and it got me thinking a little bit about unreal on Netflix and, and what they show
39:55on unreal, um, going one step further from what we saw on beyond the mat, like literally
40:00the, the, the meetings and the way they talk about the business.
40:03And I'm wondering someone like you who was a part of beyond the mat and who allowed the
40:07cameras to show behind the scenes at a time where it wasn't common.
40:10How do you feel about the step further that the company has taken?
40:13Again, uh, the company didn't necessarily endorse beyond the mat.
40:16And certainly I think in the aftermath, weren't happy with how much was shown, but they did
40:19allow the cameras to be there, but now they're actually producing a show like unreal.
40:24Is that good for the business or bad for the business in your opinion?
40:30Well, I know it's difficult to have the guy who wrote the memoir that talked, uh, that
40:35brought people, uh, behind the curtain and who was in the documentary beyond the mat that
40:41brought people beyond the curtain to say, Hey guys, they don't have to stay here.
40:47Like we don't have to have them behind the curtain 24 seven.
40:51And like, let's leave a little bit of the mystery.
40:53And I think, um, I mean, we're a show that's about the suspension of disbelief where I have
40:59a, an issue is where they'll be promoting, uh, unreal on raw or on SmackDown.
41:07And so I literally saw a segment where Seth Rollins admitted he'd been, uh, feigning.
41:14I still don't like to use the F F word is an F A K I N G. He was
41:19feigning an injury and
41:21then they cut to the live show and they have a character with a knee injury that we're supposed
41:27to now become emotionally invested in after we saw that, um, another character has feigned
41:34his own injury.
41:35And I, I, it just seems to me like, uh, I was in a, I was in a movie called,
41:40uh, I am Santa Claus
41:41about, um, director who follows five, uh, real bearded Santa clauses and throughout the year finds
41:48out life's not always that jolly and it's a great movie, but they shouldn't be advertising
41:53it during Rudolph, the red nose reindeer commercials.
41:59And when I see unreal being advertised during the show, it just strikes me as, um, it just
42:08strikes me as being somehow, um, hold on a second.
42:12I don't know.
42:13Just had somebody come in.
42:14Hey there.
42:15All right.
42:16Ariel, my, uh, my battery is on like 2%.
42:21Oh no.
42:22You have a way to wrap this thing up in your style.
42:24Yes, I do.
42:25I do.
42:25Do you want to finish your thought, your thought there?
42:28What my thought on, on the unreal?
42:31I think it's a little too much too often.
42:33It's there all the time.
42:34You don't have to, you don't even have to seek it out.
42:37Like you would have had to, um, with beyond the mat, like it's there all the time.
42:41I, uh, my own opinion, and I know a lot of people share the opinion.
42:45It's just a little too easy to get behind that curtain.
42:49You know, when it was my book, you had to, you had to read it, right?
42:53You had to invest some time when it was beyond the mat.
42:56You had to find beyond the mat and you had to be of a certain type of fan who would
42:59enjoy
43:00that type of thing.
43:01And a lot of non-fans enjoyed it too.
43:03But now it's a click of the button away.
43:05And it's, uh, it's like watching a magic show on one network and then going immediately to
43:10another show where they explain everything they did.
43:12I just, um, yeah, I still believe in the magic of wrestling.
43:16And, uh, when I go out and do my one man shows, I may explain how something was done, but
43:21the
43:21explanation is going to make people respect it even more.
43:24The backstage process is fascinating.
43:27I don't mind glimpses, but the prolonged looks, um, I think it's going to, I think it's going to
43:34sting a little bit.
43:35Um, I could pepper you with questions for the next two hours.
43:38I'm not going to do that.
43:39Can I pepper you with a question, Ariel?
43:41Yeah, but I don't want your phone to die.
43:42And then I'm going to...
43:43Well, if it dies, it dies.
43:44It will not have died in vain.
43:46How did Holly Holm not get the decision?
43:48You watched that?
43:49I did watch it.
43:51Wow.
43:51And I saw you on there and I was like, wait a second.
43:53So you land 30% more punches.
43:56Wow.
43:56You land better punches.
43:58You press the action and you get pick up an L.
44:00I didn't know Mick Foley was a boxing fan.
44:02This is tremendous.
44:03Well, I, yeah.
44:04I mean, I used to take these deep dives into the seventies guys.
44:07Oh my gosh.
44:08I thought she won.
44:10I thought she won.
44:11I don't, I just seems like boxing has got to stop insulting its, uh, it's audience.
44:17It's tough.
44:18It's tough when they go to these local markets and there's judges who may have biases.
44:21I don't know exactly what they were thinking, but sitting there live.
44:24And certainly it seems like everyone at home as well thought she won sitting there live.
44:28I thought she had done enough.
44:29I thought she won by two or three rounds.
44:31So yeah, one of those crazy things.
44:33If you're ever in New York, Mick, I got to say, even hearing you say my name is a little
44:37bit surreal because of how much I admired and looked up to you as a youngster.
44:42The 18 year old, 19 year old version of me who was doing a show at Syracuse University
44:45about pro wrestling is, is, is on cloud nine right now.
44:48And so I can't thank you enough.
44:50Congratulations on the new deal.
44:51Congratulations on all the great things that are happening in your life.
44:53Again, I wish I could ask you about a million other things.
44:55I wanted to ask you about Undertaker, the booker in AAA down in Mexico, but we have
44:58run out of time.
44:59And so we'll save that for another day.
45:02I urge everyone to check out the website, the Facebook and everything that you're doing.
45:05Well done for standing up for your convictions, for being a man of honor and, and, and, and,
45:09and backing what you say.
45:11And I wish you nothing but the best over in AEW.
45:13And I really can't thank you enough for, for giving us a few minutes here today.
45:16Hey, thanks for your time, Ariel.
45:18I really appreciate it.
45:19All the best.
45:19Have a nice day.
45:20Oh, wow.
45:21Thank you so much.
45:21There he is.
45:22The one and only Mick Foley hitting us with the have a nice day.
45:25Wow.
45:26Can we add that one, Frank?
45:27Can we add have a nice day?
45:29That's an unbelievable drop right there.
45:31Damn right we can.
45:34Mick Foley guys, Mick Foley.
45:36I remember reading, I think I probably said this to him in our first interview that was
45:40back in 2019 in, uh, at ESPN and reading his book around the time.
45:48I mean, what about that line about getting knocked down as we talk about what Dana said
45:54yesterday?
45:55Um, Dana is who he is.
45:57Mick Foley is who he is.
45:58They don't have to be the same, but I obviously subscribe a little bit more to what, uh, Mick
46:04was saying that, Hey, it's okay to hurt.
46:06It's okay to be in pain.
46:07It's okay to suffer.
46:08And it's also really good to get back up and not let that overcome you.
46:13And when I was at Syracuse and I was doing my thing and I was trying to fight and I
46:19was
46:19trying to survive and I was trying to get out of the darkness, his book helped me out
46:23a lot because this man has been through a lot and he was not supposed to succeed.
46:28And he did such a great job of telling his story of, of right.
46:31It was just, he's an inspiration and please, you may agree with his politics.
46:37You may not agree with his politics, but to me, the lesson is he believes something in
46:40his heart.
46:40And so he is going to stand up for what he believes in and he's going to make a difficult
46:44choice and he's not going to burn a bridge, hopefully on the way out, but he's going to
46:48make a difficult choice and say, you know what?
46:49I'm going to separate myself from this because I don't feel good about it.
46:53That's the lesson.
46:54Rather than get into the weeds as to the why, get into the weeds as to the how, how he
46:58dealt
46:59with that in my opinion.
47:01And, uh, I think there's, there's a lot to be learned there.
47:05So I don't agree with every single thing.
47:07Like I, to me, it's how you conduct yourself.
47:10And I feel like he's doing that with respect and grace and he's not throwing stones on the
47:14way out.
47:15And so let's see what he does in AEW.
47:17Let's see what he does.
47:17I think this is going to be supremely interesting.
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