Skip to playerSkip to main content
rt316
  • 2 days ago
Transcript
00:04Welcome to a new episode of Power Players with Brian Sazi.
00:07I'm Yahoo Fight's Executive Editor, Brian Sazi.
00:09And if you're watching this, you might be wondering,
00:11why is Brian coming to me from a very noisy conference center in D.C.?
00:15I'm coming to you from Simplifor's World Economy Conference in D.C.
00:18And I'm doing this episode because my next guest is very special.
00:22He is just superhuman.
00:24He's very busy.
00:25And once you get a date on the calendar with him,
00:28if you cancel that date, you may never get another one ever again.
00:32So you have to strike while the iron is hot.
00:34That is TKO Group President and COO Mark Shapiro.
00:37Mark, good to see you, man.
00:39Thank you for doing this.
00:40Great to be with you, Brian.
00:40Great to be with you, always.
00:42Yeah, I appreciate it.
00:44So the last time I saw you, I was going into a WWE event.
00:47It was Madison Square Garden.
00:49I'm sitting behind Andrew Schultz, the comedian.
00:51All of a sudden, Logan Paul comes out and rips him out of the crowd.
00:56Mark, I'm like, holy s***, did this just happen?
00:58I mean, this is crazy.
00:59Crazy.
01:00I thought they were going to pull you.
01:02That's where I thought they were going.
01:05They should have.
01:06We'll take that offline because I am down for that, Mark.
01:09Well, nonetheless, good to see you.
01:10Thanks for hopping on this podcast.
01:12I got a bad line to Triple H, and you'll be on in two seconds.
01:18Hey, look, you want to pull me out from a crowd and beat the hell out of me on WWE?
01:21Like, live, Raw, SmackDown, I'm in.
01:23I'm in.
01:24That's like childhood dream stuff.
01:25Just don't squash me.
01:26You know, I got to have the face, you know, the face, the TV thing, which you get as a
01:31longtime media executive, my friend.
01:34For those not familiar with your career, everything that you have done, where did you start?
01:40Because I imagine you do not get to what you are doing at TKO Group without, like, starting
01:46somewhere and starting somewhere cool.
01:48Yeah, I'll tell you, I started as an intern with NBC Sports back in 1989, actually doing
01:58a lot of events for Bob Costas.
02:00And Costas is still going strong, as you know all too well.
02:04I was an intern over a summer.
02:06I worked on a lot of live events.
02:08I kind of got my chops.
02:09I sold New York Times newspapers over the phone at night to make money.
02:14because in those days, Brian, they didn't pay you to be an intern.
02:17It was just college credit or nothing.
02:19And then ultimately, I got a job as sort of a gopher at ESPN when they were launching
02:26ESPN2 in 1993 and worked my way up from there.
02:32Bob Costas.
02:32Like, how do you go from doing that?
02:35Like, what's the career arc from spending that time in those early days with Bob to,
02:40you know, launching and developing new shows on ESPN?
02:44Yeah.
02:45You know, it's, it was a pedigree.
02:47It was a foundation of storytelling.
02:49And there's no better storyteller than, than Costas and, and still one of the best interviewers
02:54today.
02:54News, sports, politics, you name it.
02:57And, and one of the most researched men you're ever going to see and meet.
03:01So you, you really get those chops, right?
03:03You get those learnings.
03:05You get the right skills, the right habits, research, homework, like you do pound the
03:10pavement, make relationships.
03:12And ultimately when you got an ESPN, what is it really?
03:15It's storytelling.
03:16It's journalism, right?
03:17They're breaking news and they're covering the news, but it's a lot of live events.
03:21It's a lot of studio, a lot of insight, a lot of reporting.
03:24And it really became the place of record.
03:26And I think working with him, who's it, he's such a journalist, but he's also a commentator
03:31and he covers so many different cultural events was really the best training I possibly
03:37could have had.
03:40Did you go to school?
03:41Did I hear that right?
03:42Broadcast journalism?
03:43Yes, I did.
03:44I, I, I, I majored in, uh, communications, broadcast journalism.
03:48I had a minor in, in political science at the university of Iowa, but I went to college
03:53knowing that I wanted to be in sports broadcasting, sports journalism, right?
03:58So I researched out what are the best schools, the best programs, the best curriculums, the
04:03best facilities.
04:04Iowa has the number one creative writing school in the country and I'm from Chicago.
04:08So it was a big 10 school, but not too far from home.
04:11And, uh, you know, I, I set the table there and then while that was incredible training
04:16and, and, and again, another good pedigree for what I would do at the end of the day,
04:21as you know, it's about experience, right?
04:23It's about getting out there who you're meeting different internships, really putting yourself
04:28ahead by having first, first real hands-on experiences that can't be taught in a classroom.
04:37What was it like, you know, who did you, I figure like when you, and you weren't maybe
04:43similar, somewhat in the same vicinity age-wise.
04:46Like I remember these iconic figures on TV, you mentioned Bob Costas, uh, Dick Fatale, you
04:51know, later on, uh, in my life.
04:53And even to now, he's still on TV.
04:54Like who did you idolize broadcast journalism wise growing up and why?
04:59You know, I went to bed, uh, on Monday nights with a transistor radio underneath my pillow.
05:05Well, listening to Monday night football.
05:07Me too.
05:08Yeah.
05:09Even in junior high, somehow in my house, there was a bedtime and it was no more television
05:15and your homework better be done.
05:16It was pretty strict, good discipline, good values for my parents and you're in bed, but
05:21you gotta hear Hank Stram on the radio, right?
05:23You didn't, and there were no highlights to get the next morning.
05:26There were no social clips.
05:28There were no, you're waking up the scores, you know, it was the newspaper, but you wanted
05:31to be in the moment.
05:32And that's just such a, a, I think a good byline, a good tagline on what sports is, right?
05:37These are in-person experiences that you want in real time.
05:42And they really resonate and you remember them and you don't want to get them kind
05:47of after the fact.
05:48And I think that sets us up pretty well at TKO now because we have WWE, we have UFC, we
05:54have PBR, we have IMG, which of course distributes all kinds of sports properties around the world.
06:00And of course we have On Location, which is the leader in, in freemium experiential hospitality
06:04and sports stands out in this AI world.
06:07It's very much AI proof because you want to be in it.
06:12And of course all the youth of today suffers from FOMO.
06:15So they want to be able to show people that they were in it.
06:20Mark, I still remember when I got my first beeper in high school and I had the sports
06:23score scrolling across the side next to a 143.
06:26I love you from my girlfriend at the time.
06:27I mean, that was awesome.
06:29I, that was, uh, those were the days and I, I want to get, I had to call, I called
06:32an 800
06:33number at nine, seven, six, one, three, one, three was the number.
06:36Okay.
06:37Which charged 95 cents to my dad phone, my dad's phone bill to get NBA scores at night.
06:43Is that crazy?
06:44Oh, that is crazy.
06:46Oh my God.
06:47The kids today, they can't even, they can't even appreciate that.
06:49But you know what?
06:49I don't think they could appreciate too.
06:51Like, so you arrived in the ESPN.
06:54I mean, there's, you know, this young executive, you got all these amazing ideas.
06:57Oh, but yeah.
06:58But then you look up, there's like 75,000 layers of management above you.
07:01Like, how do you, how did you make it through all of those layers to launch your new ideas?
07:06You know, the, the, first of all, great question, because that's, it feels like, especially at
07:11that age, that it's impossible.
07:12And it also feels like as you're ascending, everyone's rooting against you, right?
07:17Because now all of a sudden, everybody that, that hired you is reporting to you and they're
07:23just kind of waiting for you to fail to say, see.
07:25So you have to make sure, you know, you're, you, you attack the job.
07:31Your approach is layered with humility, right?
07:36That you don't know everything, not even close, but you know enough to know you're only as good
07:40as the people around you.
07:41So you have to listen and you have to be curious and you have to care about what other people
07:46think and what they say and their ideas and have an open door and collaborate and push
07:53creativity across the board.
07:55And when we win, we all win.
07:57It's not one individual.
07:59So look, when I took over programming at ESPN at 32 years old, uh, and kind of, I felt like
08:06every, every guy's dream coming out of college was to work for ESPN.
08:10And now I'm, I'm running the show from a content perspective.
08:13You know, it was a humbling experience, but I, I really approached it in just that way that
08:19I'm going to spend 90 days just listening, figure out what's wrong.
08:23What's not going right, what we can improve and do better because I'm in this job because
08:28a lot isn't working.
08:30So let's find out what it is.
08:31And then once you're informed, you combine that with your instinct and your gut and you
08:36start making decisions that hopefully put you on a path to success, profitability, and
08:42a better culture.
08:44Mark, you're a, you're a high energy guy.
08:47You're a good looking dude.
08:48You know, the industry, how did you know that?
08:51That, you know what, uh, I don't, I'm going to put those ambitions to be a Bob Costas or
08:56a broadcast journalist.
08:58I'm going to push up to the side and I'm going to go climb the C-suite.
09:01Like it was there one defining moment that made you say, you know what, all right, I'm
09:05going to go down that path.
09:06It's funny you say that because that is the real truth.
09:09Not, not everybody can be like you.
09:11Have the looks, have the presence and, and, and really have the whole cadence, the package
09:17to be on air.
09:18Like you are.
09:19They say that every producer truthfully deep down is suffering from the fact that they
09:23wanted to be on air and they couldn't make it.
09:25So I was in high school, frankly, and we had our own, we had our own TV studio.
09:31I mean, back then we're talking in the eighties, that's like unheard of.
09:34And we programmed the local cable channel, which most communities, it was just color
09:39bars.
09:39When you turn to that, that channel, we programmed it and produced all the football games, the
09:43basketball games.
09:44And I was the play by play.
09:45And I also hosted a lot of the interview programs.
09:48So in those days I wanted to be the next Bob Costas.
09:52What happened was the internship at NBC went well, that moved me into live events.
09:58All of a sudden I'm working on the Barcelona Olympics.
10:00I'm going to Wimbledon.
10:01And I, my career started really climbing in, in a, in an, a fast way, a rapid, at a rapid
10:09pace.
10:09And when I came out of college, I realized, wait, I'm so ahead here.
10:13I can keep going and probably be a producer in a couple of years, or I can turn back and
10:18try and go on air, but you're going to have to start your career in a really small town,
10:23like the 200th market, you know, making bubkis.
10:27And I, do I really want to give this up?
10:29So I kind of buried the on-air aspiration and move towards the, the production, the
10:34producing, the programming, which ultimately turned into management.
10:39I want to, uh, I want to jump around a little bit.
10:41So bear with me here.
10:42Um, how, how could one go about today being a Mark Shapiro?
10:49Like you mentioned like newspapers and listening to Transistor's radios.
10:54Like me, I spent 10 years as a stock analyst writing by hand equity research reports on
11:01like Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
11:03Like these career paths have changed.
11:05Like how do you adapt or just adopt or take what we did and fit it to today's environment
11:11and still get jobs like this?
11:14Look, I, for me, it's, it's, and this, I don't want to give a cop out answer, but it
11:20starts with home, you know, homework and hard work.
11:23I mean, that's what you were doing.
11:24Yeah.
11:25You took everything available to you to make those notes and be able to give the kind of
11:29counseling guidance that your clients needed or expected.
11:33Whatever the job is today's environment, you, you've got to jump in with, with both hands
11:40and both feet.
11:41You've got to be willing to get sweaty.
11:43You've got to be willing to, you know, put your, your blood, blood and tears into it.
11:48There's no substitute for hard work.
11:51Yes.
11:51We have more mechanisms and devices and tools and resources to make our jobs more efficient
11:58to get answers on the fly.
12:00But at the end of the day, it doesn't take away from the fact it only supports the fact
12:08and the theory that you just have to sell out.
12:11You have to be all in.
12:12And I think today, a lot of kids, it's generalization, but they're coming out of school and things are
12:17a little easy and COVID slowed some things down in the five day work week or seven day
12:22work week.
12:23Like we had, you know, isn't what it once was, but to me, that's opportunity.
12:27Eight days, Mark.
12:29Yeah.
12:29Eight days.
12:29Yeah, right.
12:30Exactly.
12:31That to me, that's opportunity.
12:33If you go sell out and you're seeing and you come into the office and you do the work
12:37and you do more that's expected, right?
12:40If you get the assignment and go above and beyond and you're there and in person and available
12:45and responsive, you know, there's no telling where you can go and AI might make it easier
12:51for you.
12:51So learn AI, right?
12:53Learn what tools are out there.
12:55Be adaptive.
12:56Be curious at the end of the day.
12:58And at the same time, just really invite and embrace new technology because you have to
13:05be in touch, Brian.
13:06Like I'm in touch.
13:07I do a lot of reading.
13:08You know, I watch a lot of shows.
13:10I pay attention to the news, right?
13:12I'm up early to do that.
13:14I'm on the treadmill reading.
13:15But I have to be up to speed if I'm going to do an interview with you, if I'm going
13:20to
13:20go about my day, if I'm going to have a lot of meetings with external parties.
13:23And I believe that's really important to stay in touch with what's hot, what's trending.
13:29Otherwise, it's tough to really be innovative if you're not up to speed on all that.
13:35No, that's a good point.
13:36You know, and also, you know, inherent in this industry, there's so many.
13:40I feel ridiculous even mentioning this deal.
13:42I mean, there's so many big egos.
13:45Egos, everywhere you look, there's egos.
13:47Egos behind that door, ego behind that door.
13:48How have you managed these egos?
13:51And like, what's the secret to managing their expectations, managing their egos?
13:56You know, I would argue just the fact you have your resume and your pedigree, that keeps
14:02things initially in check.
14:05Yeah, I mean, obviously now, because I'm older, you know, it's different.
14:10But, you know, as you're climbing up the way, it's, it's, I can't tell you enough, like,
14:15I'm just a, this isn't like a political speech or position.
14:20I'm just a big believer in building great teams.
14:24I mean, that, that gets you, you can't know everything.
14:27You can't be an expert on everything.
14:29You can't get to everything.
14:30The art of delegation is, is part of my recipe of success.
14:35In order to delegate, you have to have people that you trust to get the job done, right?
14:40That maybe are smarter than you are, right?
14:43Paying attention or in touch or out in front of trends more than you are.
14:47Maybe better risk takers more than you are.
14:50More innovative, more creative, more nuanced and experienced.
14:55Different walks of life, diversity, so important these days.
14:58And I, I can tell you that I have an art of building and surrounding myself with incredible
15:04people.
15:05And by the way, if they're not performing, they're out the door.
15:08Not like that.
15:09You put them on a path to recovery and, and hopefully rehab them and they're delivering
15:14what you need.
15:14But if they're not doing it, you're not doing them any, any favors to carry them.
15:19So I'm a big believer in churning out my team to make sure I'm surrounded by the best
15:25and the brightest and not be threatened by that.
15:28Very important.
15:31To that end, media thrives on new ideas, a new show, one newsletter, new, new, new, new
15:38everything.
15:39For you, where have these new ideas come from over the years?
15:43Like what's like the, the Genesis or the origin story of a new idea?
15:49You have to make the time, which easier said than done to twofold here.
15:55You have to make the time to have time in your life to just think, I don't care if you're
16:00walking the dog or you're on vacation.
16:03If you can get one, you know, it's a Saturday morning, you're up earlier than anybody else.
16:07So really just get out there and have free mind to think about what could we be doing
16:14that we're not?
16:15What should we be doing that we're not?
16:17Where are we behind when most people would expect us to be out in front?
16:23So it's, it's an individual thing.
16:25I found some of my best ideas are on a plane, right?
16:29Or, you know, at a time when the rest of the world is shut down like an Easter Sunday and
16:34I just got time in between family to think.
16:37I think that's really, really important.
16:40And I say easier said than done because it's a hamster wheel, right?
16:43Like we're on it all the time.
16:45We're, the calls keep coming.
16:47The emails keep coming.
16:48The texts keep coming.
16:48Not to mention your family and your personal life that you're trying to balance.
16:52I think the other part of it is to make time to listen to others.
16:57I have a, a kind of a rule.
16:58We have 8,000 employees between WME Group and TKO.
17:02Anybody who wants a cup of coffee, you get it.
17:04You just, you send my, my, my office an email and we'll schedule you for 15 minutes.
17:09It may not be for a month because I'm on the road or I'm too busy or I'm traveling,
17:12but we will squeeze you.
17:13Yeah, look, I mean, it's taking me months to get this interview.
17:15It's like, I get it, man.
17:16I get it.
17:17I get it.
17:17He's just kidding, everybody.
17:18He's just, that's not, that's not true.
17:20I was an immediate priority.
17:21So I was going to tell you, and then they come in, you get to know them and then you
17:26solicit ideas.
17:28And that then leads to follow up with more ideas because some of the best ideas, right?
17:34Come from the people around you who are thinking about what can I create to not just better
17:39our company, but so I can move up the ladder.
17:41So you have to take the time to really have that ear, spend the time to reserve moments
17:48to listen to others, encourage their ideas, and then when you get good ones, activate
17:53on those ideas and then reward those individuals that come up with the ideas so that you can
17:58encourage repeat behavior.
18:00I want to get into the business of TKO a little bit, and while my heart wants to start on
18:04WWE, I've been watching this since, I don't know, maybe I came out of the womb, UFC, I want
18:09to start with PBR.
18:11I went to my first event, Madison Square Garden, late last year or earlier this year.
18:17I was blown away.
18:19I was blown away by what I was seeing in the ring.
18:22Is that a ring?
18:23I guess it's a ring.
18:24Had tipped all the bulls and all the riders.
18:26I mean, it was awesome.
18:26It's a dirt.
18:27But it's a production value.
18:28I'm in dirt.
18:28It was a dirt, dirt, dirt, dirt.
18:31Thank you.
18:31It was just an amazing show.
18:34Like, what is, like, how fast is that growing?
18:36Is that crazy?
18:37I mean, it really is, the fact that PBR sells out at Madison Square Garden every single
18:43year for multiple nights, and for some it's a curiosity, it's a novelty, but you know what?
18:50For some, it's Western lifestyle.
18:52They live it.
18:53They breed it.
18:54They believe in it, right?
18:55They're turned on by it.
18:56And some, it's just a family event.
18:58And we're all looking for those communal opportunities to have these shared experiences.
19:02I think PBR has benefits from having two stars.
19:06The star is the rider, right, who's trying to stay on that bull and not get hurt, God
19:13forbid.
19:13And the other side is the bull itself, who are their own names and characters and have
19:18their own followings.
19:19So look, it's over the course of a couple of hours, it's easy to understand, and it's
19:26something for you to cheer for.
19:27And now we have a team series, so we have all these fans getting behind different cities.
19:32So it's become very provincial, like their city team.
19:35It's really catchy on, it's across the country, it's year-round, it's now airing on a Paramount
19:40Plus and CVS.
19:41So we're really excited about the growth opportunity there.
19:46Well, I get it.
19:48It was my first time there.
19:49I'm sitting there, I'm enjoying a light beer, you know, as my treat for the week.
19:52All of a sudden, they threw something out, and it was like a gift card for Western Boots.
19:57I made a little note, I'm like, I gotta ask Mark about this.
20:00I mean, everything was so well thought out, but how do you grow a property like that over
20:08the next five years?
20:09Like, what's in that vision board?
20:12I think that's really the magic, you know, of TKO and what we do with live events, right?
20:18Is we just, we've taken a property like PBR, or a new property like the last few years
20:24with WWE coming into the fold, and we put you into our machine, right?
20:30It's media rights.
20:32It's financial incentive packages, where different cities and provincialities are paying to bring
20:39our show to town because of the economic impact it brings to that region, right?
20:45It's global partnerships.
20:47It's brands that want to get out in front of new consumers, right?
20:52That want to be relevant and are chasing with a lot of our properties, especially young men,
20:57which is the hardest to reach.
20:59It's consumer products and licensing, right?
21:02It's taking WWE superstars and UFC fighters and PBR bulls and making them storylines,
21:10making them personalities that you want to not just follow, but buy a t-shirt or a tchotchke
21:16when you're with your family or your friends at the event.
21:19I bought a bull.
21:20Mark, I bought a bull.
21:21Totally unprompted.
21:22I bought a bull on the way out.
21:23Like, it's a pink bull.
21:24It's in my room.
21:25Full disclosure.
21:26Like, it was awesome.
21:27Exactly.
21:28And that's part of the machine.
21:31We've got a history of doing it.
21:33We've got a huge track record.
21:34I mean, take just one thing, for example, Brian, we've got $15 billion in the aggregate
21:42of all of our properties in terms of media rights deals wrapped up for the next five to
21:49seven years.
21:50So PBR, CBS, and Paramount Plus, WWE, Netflix, and ESPN.
21:55Obviously, much hay has been made about our UFC deals.
21:58Seven years, almost $8 billion with Paramount Plus and CBS, and so on and so forth, right?
22:03We've launched Zufa Boxing.
22:05So you come into our machine, and our consumers, our partners, our fans know that we are one-stop
22:13shopping for premier, high-quality sports and entertainment.
22:21I do want to get to WWE.
22:23Like I mentioned, Mark, I, like so many my age, grew up watching WWE.
22:28I've had the great opportunity to interview Stephanie the Man.
22:31I think it was twice.
22:32Yeah, I always enjoy talking to her.
22:34So I get the property.
22:35I get it.
22:35I get it all.
22:35Like, it's great.
22:36Like, I am still the WWE fan.
22:38Now, I'm taping this a couple days before WrestleMania, which I plan to watch.
22:43Now, there's been some talk about how ticket prices are high for this year's WrestleMania.
22:48What say you about all this?
22:50WWE, UFC, PBR, you know, in today's economic climate, and obviously a lot going on from a
22:58geopolitical perspective, and a lot going on at home here from an affordability perspective,
23:03we're still seeing massive uptick, maybe even more so, of families and fans that want to
23:10come out and escape the day-to-day, and they're doing it through the lens of our sports and
23:16entertainment properties.
23:17So we're seeing strong growth on our ticket yields.
23:20We're seeing sellouts across the board on our UFC-numbered events and our Raw, SmackDown,
23:25NXT, and of course, our premium live events at WWE, and PBR is having its best year in the
23:32last five years.
23:33So that should tell you something in terms of demand, anticipation, and following, and
23:39should bode well for years of long-term sustained growth.
23:43I would tell you that Vegas is two years in a row for WrestleMania 42.
23:49So some of the challenges we had there is usually we move WrestleMania year after year to a new
23:55spot, and that allows us to obviously grow and see the kind of economic impact we would
24:01expect.
24:01Maybe it's a mistake I made because Vegas was so huge last year and such a winner for
24:08our fans and the product that I said to Nick Kahn, who runs the WWE, we got to go back
24:13to
24:13Vegas next year.
24:14We have to move New Orleans down the road, and we got to come back to Vegas.
24:18I mean, Las Vegas, I don't need to tell you, is the mecca for great events.
24:21More and more events are moving there.
24:23Music has residencies.
24:25And more and more sports teams, as evidenced by the NHL and soon-to-be Major League Baseball,
24:30are popping up there with teams to come.
24:33Obviously, the Raiders are a massive success in Las Vegas.
24:36So absolutely no regrets on going back there.
24:39But the only reason you're hearing some of, hey, it's not what it was last year, is because
24:43we're not benefiting from the first-mover experience.
24:45Are you keeping mania there, or it's going to go back to its OG ways and travel all around
24:51the U.S.?
24:51It is.
24:52It's going to go back to its OG ways of a new spot every year.
24:56And in fact, in 2027, we're going far away from the U.S.
25:00We're going to Saudi Arabia for WrestleMania.
25:03So that's going to be a massive, massive show.
25:07They're actually doing three shows this year, Brian, in Saudi, three other events in anticipation,
25:13building up.
25:14Back to your question, how do you build the following?
25:17Well, have more events.
25:18So Saudi Arabia is doing three events this year.
25:20The following is just going to get bigger, right?
25:22The avidity is just going to grow, fan avidity.
25:25And then next year, you bring the ultimate show to town.
25:29And that should just be a tremendous spectacle.
25:34That's tremendous.
25:35I mean, it's really, I don't have to tell you this, or I mean, it's intense over there
25:39right now.
25:40So all the fights, all the wrestling you planned in the Middle East, I mean, this year, I
25:44mean, it's all systems go like, you know, they're still on track.
25:48Yeah.
25:48You know, I tell you, I think the market is overreacted a little bit in terms of, don't
25:53get me wrong, Middle East, what's going on isn't good for anybody or any business.
25:56I want to be clear about that.
25:58More importantly, for humanity.
26:00We're not like F1.
26:01We don't have a lot of events at this time right now that would be impact or changed or
26:06moved or altered because of what's going on over there.
26:09We have an event at the end of June.
26:11That's our next event.
26:13We had Royal Rumble in January for WWE.
26:16We've got another event at the end of June.
26:17We have another UFC fight planned in the Middle East that will be actually, by the time this
26:23airs, will have already been announced.
26:25So all systems go.
26:27But, you know, as you'd expect, we're going to monitor the situation.
26:30And if we have to make a move or to have a schedule change, we will do the right thing
26:35by our audience and more importantly, by global affairs.
26:40What's it like having The Rock on the TKO board?
26:43The Rock follows me on X.
26:45He has for years.
26:46It's awesome.
26:47Look, he's everything.
26:49He's everything and more.
26:51I mean, he really is.
26:53And also, he gets back to you like that.
26:56Not just because he's on the board.
26:57That's like who he is.
26:58I'm not sure he sleeps, right?
27:00He's an investor.
27:01He's an entrepreneur.
27:03He's an actor.
27:04He's one of the biggest stars in the history of WWE.
27:07He's an owner in the UFL.
27:11I mean, this is he's just a magnetic personality.
27:14And he's kind of what you see is what you get.
27:16He truly cares about his audience in a very real, personal and meaningful way.
27:22So we're thrilled to have him on the board.
27:24He brings a lot of value every day.
27:27And more importantly, when we need him to make a phone call to get some business done,
27:30that's a nice guy ringing somebody up.
27:33I can tell you that it makes a big difference.
27:37Well, you can't tell him no in a board meeting, Mark.
27:39I mean, the alternative is he rock bottoms you.
27:41I mean, let's go.
27:42Let's get real.
27:43Yes, sir.
27:43Mr. Rock.
27:44Whatever you say.
27:44I mean, who wants to get rock bottomed?
27:46That's right.
27:47We're doing well.
27:48So the good news is all systems go.
27:51But yeah, I got to be careful.
27:53If we take a bad turn somewhere here or there, he won't be shy to make sure I know about
27:57it.
27:57And then it will be.
27:58Yes, sir.
28:01On UFC, before we wrap this one up, I mean, a historic deal with Paramount.
28:07You have a big fight on the White House lawn.
28:10Like, what are preparations?
28:13I've never seen a fight on the White House lawn before, Mark.
28:16What are the preparations for an event like that?
28:19It's insane, Brian.
28:21Kind of careful what you wish for is all I can say, right?
28:24We've got UFC Freedom 250, as we're calling it, on June 14th, which is Flag Day, which is
28:31the president's birthday.
28:32It's going to be on the South lawn.
28:34I mean, you know, we're tearing up all the sod to put this in.
28:37And we got to be careful.
28:38We don't in any way get in the way of the bunkers that are underneath that sod.
28:43Don't forget about that.
28:44There's a reason there usually aren't events.
28:46It's like a historic sod.
28:47This is a historic sod.
28:48Not to mention safety, right?
28:50Hopefully you never have to use it.
28:52Yeah.
28:52But that's there.
28:53So, I mean, it takes it takes a city, a country for all the all the preparation and all the
29:01due diligence to do this just right.
29:03But we're working very close with the administration.
29:06They've been exceptional partners.
29:08They're really excited about this.
29:10As you know, the president is a major UFC fan.
29:13We've got a card of seven fights and it's it's really the best.
29:18It's a marketing spectacle, right?
29:20I mean, much has been made about the 60 million dollars roughly that we're spending to make this event happen.
29:25And the fact that we're actually going to lose some money on this.
29:28Well, we're not losing anything.
29:29What this is going to bring to the UFC from an awareness standpoint, from a sampling standpoint, from just a
29:37priority standpoint, moving us up on the ladder of mainstream sports and entertainment.
29:42The global coverage we're going to have from just all the news outlets that are going to be covering this
29:48event from a news perspective, not even sports.
29:51This is going to be a cultural impact like no other, a true spectacle, an amazing stage.
29:57We're going to take advantage of every minute.
29:59And I'll tell you this, we're doing the day before a music fest at the Ellipse.
30:04Tickets are free.
30:06It's a registration.
30:07You have to you sign up in the first 60,000, like get tickets on the first couple of hours
30:13of putting those tickets up for registration.
30:1856,000 people signed up in the first few hours.
30:21And we only hold 60,000.
30:23So I can just tell you this folks are amped up and excited for what this is going to be.
30:27And Dana White has just put together an extraordinary card.
30:33I went to UFC, I think it was last year.
30:36And it was the day that the president came.
30:37I was in Madison Square Garden.
30:38He came out.
30:39It was, I had never seen anything like that before, to be honest with you.
30:43But like, what type of, how is he, how is the president like impacting the value in the business of
30:49UFC with all its attention?
30:50I mean, he's such a fan, but he's not, he hasn't just been a fan like yesterday or the day
30:53before.
30:54I mean, he's been a fan for years of UFC.
30:56Yeah.
30:56And one of the reasons Dana and the president are so close is because when, when a lot of folks
31:02didn't believe in the UFC, right.
31:03Or thought it was, you know, too violent, quote unquote.
31:06Uh, and couldn't get legislated, right.
31:09Couldn't get approvals to bring the show to certain states.
31:14President Trump was the first guy to say, bring it to the Taj Mahal in New Jersey.
31:18Like, bring it here.
31:19I'll put it on.
31:20And he's also in the WWE Hall of Fame.
31:23Folks don't know that.
31:24So he's a massive fan of both these properties.
31:27Helped Vince McMahon in many ways build and spread the word on WWE and build the fan base into what
31:33it is.
31:34And he's done the same thing with, with Dana.
31:36But I would tell you, like, he went to the Miami event, uh, back in April and he doesn't leave
31:43the table.
31:44I mean, he's sitting octagon side, like it is age.
31:48I got to go to the bathroom three times, right?
31:50Not him.
31:51He doesn't want to miss one moment.
31:53And he actually turned to Dana and said, Hey, why isn't Derek Lewis, one of our fighters, heavyweight?
31:59Why isn't he fighting on the main card at the White House?
32:04Like, can, can you add that?
32:05And we added a fight just for him.
32:06I mean, he knows the fighters.
32:08He knows the storylines.
32:09He knows the rivalries.
32:10Like, he's not there just for show and tell.
32:12He's a true fan.
32:14And I think we've, we've really benefited because of the attention he has brought to the UFC.
32:20Yeah, no, absolutely.
32:21I totally, to be a, to name job, I went, I traveled in with the press corps on Air Force
32:27One with him to US Open in Bethpage in Long Island.
32:29And to your point on him being a fan, like, he was right on the course.
32:33He stayed there the whole time.
32:35I mean, he's greeting all the players.
32:37He's totally, I mean, he gets the scene.
32:40Yeah, I'll tell you, he doesn't, he doesn't, before I let you go here.
32:42He's a big sports enthusiast, to your point.
32:45I mean, he really is.
32:46When he shows up to the US Open or the College Football National Championship, it may be a pain for
32:51the fans because of security and how hard it is, how much longer it takes to get in.
32:54But he's actually coming, not just for FaceTime.
32:57He's coming because he's a fan.
32:59He loves sports.
33:00And, you know, we're happy, we're happy to have him there.
33:03And it's not about a political views or any kind of stance or any kind of position.
33:09He's the leader of the free world.
33:10And he's, you know, one of the biggest fans of the UFC.
33:13We'll take it.
33:14Last one for you.
33:15I look at your career and I see it as a straight line up.
33:19I know we all have ups and downs.
33:20I've had ups and downs too.
33:21But what I think a lot of folks don't realize is that you led Six Flags.
33:26And I want to end the interview on this.
33:28You led Six Flags, Great Adventure.
33:30I grew up going there.
33:31What did you learn from that experience?
33:33Because I have a feeling it wasn't like super amazing.
33:36Like it wasn't bad, but it was just like maybe an interesting point in your life and your career.
33:41Yeah, look, I was at ESPN, which is a division of the Walt Disney Company.
33:47And by the way, it was printing money, right?
33:49This was at a time when ESPN was worth more than the Walt Disney Company, the rest of the Walt
33:54Disney Company combined.
33:56And I remember I took this job to be CEO of a flailing Six Flags, like on the verge of
34:02bankruptcy.
34:03And the cable guy, back in the days of cable, came to fix something at my house and said to
34:08my wife,
34:09Did I read your husband's leaving ESPN?
34:12Six Flags?
34:13Like it's in the toilet.
34:15How could that be?
34:17Look, I love startups, but I also like fix-its, Brian.
34:21And like you, I grew up on Six Flags, Great America and Chicago.
34:25Kingda Ka.
34:26Yeah.
34:27And Kingda Ka was at Jersey.
34:29It's now retired.
34:31And Bob Pittman was running the company at that time.
34:34It had gone through Marriott.
34:36It had gone through Time Warner.
34:37And it was an incredible, like bigger than Disneyland, closer to home.
34:40And it lost its way and took on too much debt.
34:43And the experience suffered.
34:45And moms turned away.
34:46And frankly, was unsafe for a period of time.
34:49And all of a sudden, you know, a team comes to me and says,
34:52Hey, Mark, you got some Disney experience.
34:54You know something about theme parks.
34:55I knew this much.
34:57But you know how to build brands.
34:59You know how to build followings and fan bases.
35:01And you build great teams.
35:02Can you come and fix this?
35:04And I knew going in that a holistic reorganization was in the cards.
35:09And J.P. Morgan and J.B. Diamond helped me effectuate that ultimately.
35:13But first, we needed a turnaround of the brand, right?
35:17We needed to clean up the parks.
35:18We needed to bring moms back.
35:20We needed to make it safe again and affordable.
35:23And we spent the better part of three years doing just that.
35:26And once we achieved that, and the company was free cash flow positive,
35:30for the first time in 50 years, we then put it through a holistic reorganization,
35:35got rid of the debt.
35:36And the next 10, 15 years, they crushed it.
35:39I left.
35:39But we gave them the pathway to be successful.
35:43So I love that experience.
35:44I love the 32,000 employees who had been there, a lot of lifers, if you will.
35:49And they really cared.
35:51They were really passionate.
35:52And I don't need to tell you, whatever you're trying to win at, you're in a sports event.
35:56You're running for office.
35:58You're overseeing a big-time global company.
36:01If your people believe, if culture is good, if they're collaborating and communicating and
36:06creative, and they feel like they're getting paid for performance, and they're positive
36:11and passionate, you're unstoppable.
36:13Mark, I thank you for doing this.
36:15It feels like I've kept you away from creating the next big idea or TKO.
36:19Thank you for doing this.
36:21Give me some of your time.
36:22Brian, great to be with you.
36:23Thanks so much for the time.
36:24Thanks for having me on.
36:25and a big fan of your series.
36:27So I'm looking forward to the next guest.
36:28Thanks so much, Mark.
36:29I appreciate it.
36:30And that's it for the latest episode of Power Players with this guy, Brian Tazi.
36:34We'll talk to you soon.
Comments