00:07My guest today on 12 Minutes with is Cyprus's Deputy Minister for Migration and International
00:13Protection, Dr. Nicolas Ioannidis. Sir, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews.
00:19My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
00:20The EU has just struck a deal on new rules which will speed up the return of migrants
00:27deemed not to have the legal right to stay in the European Union.
00:31Some would say this is the most major hardline shift in EU migration policy in decades.
00:38When do you expect to see the results of this?
00:42Because we know that at the moment only 27% on average of the migrants ordered to return
00:47are actually returning to their countries of origin.
00:50Of course, this is a crucial matter for the European Union, member states and our European citizens.
00:58So we wanted to conclude the negotiations with the European Parliament and the Commission
01:04in order to enact a legal basis, a new legal framework in order to increase the number,
01:13both the number and the rate of returns, because as you rightly mentioned, the rates are low.
01:21And it is quite important to have an effective return system in order for the general, overall
01:31European migration policy to function properly.
01:35Thus, we believe that the missing piece of the EU Pact on Migration and Asylum,
01:40namely the return regulation that we agreed on on Monday,
01:45will contribute to the effectiveness of our migration policy.
01:49Let's get into the details of this, because for our viewers at home, it might be a bit confusing,
01:55but this is about making sure that those people who are ordered to leave,
01:59because they don't have the legal right to stay, they have not been granted asylum,
02:03to go to their home countries.
02:05But isn't it true that the problem in many cases is that those home countries,
02:10the countries of origin, are not accepting those migrants back?
02:13And if so, what do these new rules do to tackle that issue?
02:18Well, this is part of the problem, namely countries that do not accept their nationals.
02:23The other problem, or aspect of this problem, is the fact that third country nationals do not cooperate
02:31with member states in order to repatriate.
02:36Therefore, the new regulation envisages measures that would accept pressure on individuals
02:46to collaborate with member states, for instance, there will be strict detention rules
02:53and law guarantee bans that will actually push, to put it this way,
03:00third country nationals to work with member states and accept their repatriation.
03:06And when it comes to third countries that do not accept their nationals,
03:09we're actually discussing measures like trade agreements or visa measures
03:16in order to make those third countries to work with us, so as to improve the return rate.
03:24At the heart of this, obviously, are the new return hubs.
03:28So these would be centres that the EU can build in countries outside the EU,
03:34provided they strike a bilateral deal with that country in question.
03:38And any migrant that has rejected asylum could be sent there, essentially.
03:43Isn't there a risk that these people could become stuck in a legal limbo,
03:48for example, if their countries of origin do not accept them back?
03:51Well, of course, the main issue we've been trying to deal with is the fact that
03:56third country nationals do not have a legal right to stay in the European Union.
04:01Therefore, they have to depart.
04:03So if they're not collaborating with us or the country of origin won't accept them,
04:10then we have to find a solution.
04:12And this solution is a so-called return hubs.
04:15And something that is quite important to everyone, to member states and the commission,
04:21is that their human rights should be upheld and safeguarded.
04:25How will that be ensured?
04:26And that is why one of the means to ensure this is the engagement of international organisations
04:33such as the UNHCR and International Organization of Migration.
04:38And, of course, we'll be monitoring the situation.
04:43We don't want to punish those people.
04:45We just want to make sure that those who have no right to remain in the European Union will depart
04:52and will protect our asylum systems from misuse.
04:58If there is a case where there is a return hub where basic rights are not being upheld,
05:04what then happens to these people?
05:06There will be safeguards in the agreements concluded between member states and the third countries
05:13hosting such centres, which will stipulate the details of what's happening in case there's a human rights violation.
05:23But in any case, these are still, there are no tangible results.
05:30We've just been discussing some ideas.
05:32But now that the regulation has been agreed,
05:37we'll start delving into the matter in order to adopt more tangible measures.
05:45Because we are talking as well about children and accompanied children are excluded.
05:49But if they are with their families, they can also be sent to these return hubs.
05:55These minors, of course, cannot be blamed for being irregular migrants.
05:59They are minors, they are with their families, but yet they are being sent to these camps.
06:05Are you concerned about their safety, their well-being?
06:09Yeah, I mean, I mentioned that earlier, that upholding human rights is a red line for everyone.
06:15We don't want any violations of EU and international law.
06:19But at the same time, we have to strike a balance between illegal stay and the need to uphold human
06:26rights.
06:27Therefore, before a family is being sent to an accommodation centre, a return hub,
06:33we will examine all relevant aspects.
06:36And one of them is the best interest of the child.
06:39So all these factors will be taken into consideration prior to receiving,
06:44to making a decision of sending families to return hubs.
06:49What would you say to those critics that say that with the fixation on irregular migration,
06:54that the EU is losing its moral compass?
06:57Well, I would disagree with this, because it's not just about irregular migration.
07:01And as a matter of fact, there are several provisions in the new EU Pact on Migration and Asylum
07:08that actually enhance the protection of individuals, such as the provision of legal counselling
07:14and the establishment of a monetary mechanism for human rights.
07:18And other than that, in parallel, we've been working on creating legal pathways for migration
07:24through concepts like the EU talent pool, through our visa policies.
07:30We'd like to open up legal pathways.
07:32And this way, we believe that we will tackle the regular migration facilitated by criminal smacking networks,
07:40because that's the main problem.
07:42Just briefly on the return hubs before we move on.
07:44Will the Cypriot government be looking to establish these hubs itself?
07:48Well, we haven't discussed this yet.
07:51Of course, there was no legal basis until recently.
07:54There have been some discussions within the union between member states.
08:01And now that we've got our legal basis, of course, we're interested in participating in discussions
08:08with other member states so as to find solutions and implement these provisions.
08:14Because we know there are five member states that already said that we're exploring this,
08:18including the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Greece and Austria.
08:22And what countries do you think could be possible partners here?
08:28Because, you know, we are talking about countries that must have some kind of democratic standards,
08:34yet these are countries that are willing to accept these rejected asylum seekers.
08:40Who do you see as possible partners in this?
08:43Well, I cannot refer to specific countries, but what you described actually is what the regulation envisages,
08:51that the countries where return hubs will be established should safeguard, protect and observe human rights.
09:01So these are the criteria set by the regulation.
09:04I want to ask you about the situation of Cyprus.
09:06It could be described as a frontline state when it comes to migration.
09:09How concerned are you about instability in the Middle East and the potential impact on migration flows,
09:15particularly, of course, the situation in Lebanon?
09:17Well, indeed, Cyprus is a frontline member state that has received massive migratory flows over the last years.
09:24And that is why our government has adopted strict measures in order to reduce irregular flows.
09:30And we've actually managed to do so.
09:33We managed to reduce regular flows by nearly 90 percent over the last three years.
09:38But as you mentioned, we're in a volatile region.
09:41So we always remain vigilant lest a new crisis erupts, a new refugee crisis erupts in the region.
09:50And, of course, unfortunately, we've seen armed conflicts in the region, in Iran, in Lebanon.
09:55And so far, no migratory flows have been created.
10:01We've received no migrants from this region.
10:05And in any case, the new Pact on Migration and Asylum also stipulates measures for crisis management.
10:15It's the first time that we've got such a comprehensive legal framework in order to address this thorny issue.
10:21Finally, Minister, before we finish, there is now a discussion, and I know you'll be discussing this with your EU
10:27counterparts this week,
10:29about whether the EU should continue to provide temporary protection to Ukrainian men, young men, approaching the age of conscription.
10:39Do you think that there should be a shift in these rules?
10:43Because Chancellor Mertz of Germany, for example, has been calling on this to avoid a situation where men approaching the
10:49conscription age are leaving Ukraine in mass.
10:53Well, as you know, protection to Ukrainian citizens, Ukrainian nationals, has been extended for a year to spring 2027.
11:05But, of course, we have to discuss the future, as you mentioned.
11:09And that's what we're planning on doing in Luxembourg, in order to listen to member states, listen to their concerns,
11:18to their views, and discuss with the Commission the way forward.
11:22We've made no particular decisions so far.
11:25And it's a first-class opportunity during the Council to exchange views and somehow decide on the way forward regarding
11:36this important issue.
11:37But our support to Ukraine is there.
11:43Nothing has changed concerning this.
11:47But at the same time, we need to see how things will evolve in the coming years.
11:53OK, Minister, thank you so much.
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