- 2 days ago
Locked Up Abroad -Chechnya. Credits to owners
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00:01We were only going for six months. I didn't think about the risk.
00:05We felt very strongly about what we had to do.
00:10Both of us were thinking today could be the day that we're free.
00:13Or it could be the day that we're killed.
00:31I was working in Ross & Wine. I was assistant manager in the community centre and also teaching Tai Chi.
00:42John was working as a builder.
00:45I was actually off sick for nearly a whole year with a lot of back pain.
00:49And I started doing some volunteer work at the local daycare centre, which was for adults with learning difficulties, so
00:56physically and mentally handicapped.
00:59What, here?
01:00Uh-huh.
01:01Clouds make it worse or better?
01:03Worse.
01:04What attracted me to John was he was also interested in the spiritual way of looking at life, and I
01:09was.
01:10Sorry about that.
01:12In September 1996, we met up with this friend of mine, Chris Hunter.
01:19And he was working for Quaker Peace and Service in Chechnya.
01:23These pictures are absolutely amazing.
01:26Where's that footage right after the...
01:27Look, Chris made us aware that it was a war zone, and there had been fighting there.
01:31It was a Russian-Chechen engagement, and now there was a ceasefire.
01:35And as well, we were doing an outreach program.
01:37He'd managed to take a small group of children out of the area in a lull in the bombing.
01:43So beautiful. Look at this one's face.
01:46And then he said, Well, look, now the fighting's stopped. Now's the time to set up a permanent centre to
01:52help the children.
01:53And he turned to us, and he just said...
01:57I have to say, though, when I was there, I actually imagined you guys being there.
02:01Us?
02:01Yeah.
02:02And that really set me buzzing.
02:03I see you there. Really?
02:05Really.
02:05And I thought, Yeah, I'd love to do something like this.
02:08It was much more of a challenge than my day-to-day work of doing somebody's driveway or building a
02:14small patio.
02:15Exciting.
02:15I personally didn't think about the risk involved.
02:19It just felt so important just to go.
02:32We filled this car. The car was pretty darn full.
02:35And it's like, Wow, okay, we're starting on this big adventure.
02:38It did feel very exciting.
02:43We were going to set up this centre for these war-traumatised children.
02:48We were only going for six months. I mean, that was the deal.
02:57As we got closer to Groznit, it really began to hit us that we were in a war zone.
03:05I thought, This is a vision of hell.
03:23How could people live here still?
03:25What do they do for food? What do they do for water? How do they live here?
03:52We didn't think about turning back. We felt very strongly that, you know, about what we had to do.
04:02We arrived at the place that we were going to be living at.
04:06There was two armed guards. There had been kidnappings in the past by small rebel groups that are just looking
04:13at easy ways of raising funds for their country or just for their own financial gain.
04:19Hence that we needed these security guards with us all the time.
04:35So the morning arrived when the kids were going to come to the centre.
04:38And I was very nervous, actually, very nervous.
04:42And I've piled all these children, bearing in levels of trauma.
04:47Some of the kids had lost some of their family or all of their family.
04:52They survived, but they're damaged inside because of what they've seen, what they've experienced.
04:58The idea was to find ways of helping them release their fear.
05:04You know, I actually bring some joy back into their lives.
05:13I was actually the only guy.
05:15I had to play the fool a lot to be, you know, just really silly, like the clown.
05:20But at least it sort of got some of them laughing.
05:23Even by the end of that day, you could see they were more excited and alive.
05:28And as it progressed, it was wonderful to see how they changed.
05:34There was a young boy called Ruslan.
05:36He'd lost his father in the war.
05:39And he sort of latched onto me.
06:01Here comes someone, stop!
06:03I've got you, I've got you.
06:05Come in.
06:06Oh!
06:07Come on!
06:14I just looked round at John.
06:16I thought, you know, it's like this is something that he'd dreamt of doing.
06:20And now it's happening.
06:25I need my beauty to sleep.
06:27And it had been a pretty full-on week.
06:29You know, we were pretty waxed.
06:30So we took ourselves off the bed pretty early.
06:33Sort of about ten o'clock-ish.
06:42And I woke up some time in the night and thought, thought I heard something.
06:51What?
06:52What?
06:54Yeah.
06:54We heard these angry voices.
06:57It's not about someone arguing.
07:04And at first we were listening, we were wondering, is that just our guards, you know, having a bit of
07:08an argument?
07:09But then we could hear other voices.
07:14And that's when we were on full alert.
07:17Just waiting to see what was going to happen.
07:23And then our bedroom door was kicked in.
07:25And Ninka was explaining the piece of paper.
07:31It was followed by this masked man carrying a Kalashnikov.
07:35And he was shouting.
07:36Documenting!
07:37Paper!
07:38Documenting!
07:39OK, OK.
07:40OK, OK.
07:41OK.
07:41OK.
07:42Hold!
07:43I think, OK, I'm just going to stand back and sort of stay calm.
07:54We heard someone in the next room getting very excited.
07:57Key phone!
07:58And he shouted something.
07:59Key phone!
07:59Key phone!
08:00Key key!
08:01Key!
08:02And the man said to John, where's the key?
08:05And they were talking about a safe.
08:07Key key!
08:08Key key!
08:08Key key!
08:12I thought, OK, they've come to clean us out.
08:15They've come to sort of take our money.
08:17John!
08:19I'm just going to do whatever he asks, just so I don't get shot.
08:27We are English.
08:30Do you understand?
08:34Under the direction of the muzzle of a gun, I go through to the other room to open the safe.
08:40I can see in the kitchen area, there are a couple of more armed masked men.
08:45And I think, well, there's no chance of doing a run out.
08:49I can do it!
08:52And I went over to the safe.
08:55And I thought, well, you're not going to like this, guys.
09:02And I turned the key.
09:10Out-cascaded a load of colored balls that we just pulled back from Moscow.
09:15There's no money in there.
09:17No way.
09:18I'm with them!
09:19I'm with them!
09:22No way!
09:24Let's go!
09:25Come on!
09:26Go!
09:26I wanted to know what had happened to the two armed guards.
09:30So I actually looked back, and there the others were tied up.
09:37I was intensely scared at that moment.
09:39I remember that my heart was really going...
09:41I was breathing like this.
10:02I can hear Camilla's breathing. I can hear her... her breath rushing.
10:09I sort of try to memorize turns as the car goes up our street,
10:15and then I get totally disorientated.
10:17I'm sorry.
10:25This man pulled me out of the car.
10:28I remember his muscly, his kind of forearm.
10:35And then he just let me go.
10:37And I just kept walking, and suddenly...
10:55I hear all these guns, cocked, and so I freeze.
11:03And then there's this silence.
11:20I'm going to realize that Camilla's obviously fallen in bed.
11:30And then I realized that Camilla's obviously fallen in there.
11:31And they're fucking out of here.
11:36I don't know.
11:48For toilet.
11:50Understand?
11:53For toilet.
11:55Understand?
12:06I think that's it. I think we've been kidnapped.
12:32This masked man came in.
12:37He sat down beside me on the camp bed.
12:41Now, this was scary. This was very scary.
12:43And my heart was going.
12:49I like seater very much.
12:53Yes. Yes.
12:53So this guy then put his hand on Camilla's knee.
12:56Is that good?
12:58I thought, oh, this is a bit dodgy.
13:03I thought, well, I've got to do something to intervene.
13:09Dude is that good?
13:12No, please don't touch me.
13:14No.
13:19It's a very high, tense state.
13:21It's like walking on this knife edge and it's life one side and death the other side.
13:25And we're walking down this very fine line.
13:33I'm wondering where this is going to go.
13:37All of these guys are going to have a go at Camilla.
13:39We've got a boat set up.
13:40Let's go.
13:48Let's go.
13:49Let's go.
13:53Let's go.
13:56Let's go.
14:01Let's go.
14:03Let's go.
14:11I looked at Camilla, and she looked back at me, and was like, whoa.
14:19He didn't secure the door.
14:22We were thinking, thank God, here's an opportunity.
14:25We could actually go.
14:30We could like it.
14:33I think we both had the same thought at the same time, that we could probably do a run-up.
14:38We knew that we could actually get out, and we couldn't hear anyone else in the building.
14:43What do you think is anyone else in the building?
14:55But it was that kind of, sort of, sense of excitement, wow, we just, you know, we could escape now.
15:02We could...
15:04Oh.
15:05Oh.
15:33I don't know.
15:37And he just said, well, no problem.
15:52The two have been named as John James and Camilla Carr.
15:56On Thursday night, half a dozen armed gunmen burst in and abducted them.
16:00But in the present lawless atmosphere in Chechnya,
16:03getting the two aid workers released could prove a difficult business.
16:14No, we didn't know that they might have been taking us off to kill us.
16:22I knew that the guys there had been fighting for two years.
16:25I knew they had killed people.
16:35So at the end of this journey,
16:37got up some steps, pushed into another room.
17:07And they took of our blindfolds,
17:09And that was extraordinary, because we were in quite a large pink room...
17:13...with a kind of parquet, shiny floor.
17:15I certainly felt relief.
17:27The next morning, they allowed us out.
17:30And then we realized we were in a flat.
17:38Hello.
17:40Sit.
17:42Sit, sit.
17:45And they're sort of like, please come in and sit down and have breakfast.
17:49And it's like so surreal.
17:52I just looked down at the table in amazement, because they'd laid it for us.
17:57And they stood back looking like waiters in their masks.
18:00It's got coffee.
18:02And I think there's bread.
18:04And there's some cooked eggs.
18:06Height of luxury.
18:10And I just find it so funny, I burst out laughing.
18:21Spies.
18:26Spies.
18:27Spies.
18:28Spies everywhere.
18:29They hear you speaking.
18:33Spies.
18:34Spies.
18:35Spies.
18:43Spies.
18:45Spies.
18:48Spies.
18:49Spies.
18:50So, we realized it's okay, it's a million dollars.
18:52and I quickly do some maths in my head and think,
18:56well, we're going to be here sometime if they want to get to that figure.
19:08So after breakfast, this man came in.
19:26The guys had masks on all the time.
19:30Then, suddenly...
19:37For us, this felt more dangerous.
19:39We thought, oh, my God, because he had told us before,
19:42if we ever saw him, it would be death.
19:45And he was looking at John.
19:49And I was just shocked by this gesture of trust,
19:55because that's how I perceived it,
19:58that he was trusting me.
20:01You like children?
20:03We both like children.
20:07I have a son.
20:09How old is your son?
20:11Five years.
20:13What's his name?
20:14Vassili.
20:16Played football with him.
20:18What?
20:18Played football with him.
20:19Ah, he's good.
20:21And I'm sure if I'd met him in a non-war zone,
20:24we'd quite easily become quite good friends.
20:27But in this scenario, it was really quite bizarre relationship.
20:35My son.
20:38I don't see him much.
20:45You know, we felt really lucky,
20:46because this man, he was treating us as humans.
20:50We gave him a nickname.
20:52We called him Guardian Angel, G.A.
20:55I like Manchester United.
20:59I felt this kind of wave of love for him, really.
21:04Yeah, yeah.
21:05And I think it comes through understanding
21:07what he'd been through and hearing about his history,
21:10and maybe it's just my nature.
21:20John and Camilla, you are going to be freed.
21:23There came a time when they started getting very excited
21:26and saying, you're going to be freed.
21:27And we're thinking, well, it's only just over a month.
21:30You know, it might be a miracle.
21:31You never know.
21:32Go, go, go!
21:33Go, John!
21:34Go!
21:37England!
21:41I can remember really feeling this sense of hope
21:44when we were blindfolded and going along in the car.
21:51I think we were holding hands all the way.
21:55I thought, it's coming.
21:56It's going to happen soon.
21:58You know, we'd be freed there and then.
22:02Come on.
22:04We were guided down these steps.
22:07It was silent.
22:08This was all very, very silent.
22:12Quite quickly, I realized,
22:15oh, my gosh, we're back at the black hole,
22:19back at the cellar.
22:22Oh, gosh.
22:23I thought we'd seen the last of this place.
22:27Beautiful.
22:28Huh?
22:31My heart sank,
22:32because it felt like we were going backwards.
22:51Johnny!
22:54Johnny!
22:56Johnny!
22:56Oh, I'm in the cellar and I can hear.
22:58Johnny!
23:01Johnny!
23:02Johnny!
23:04Johnny!
23:06He started this game of calling Johnny, Johnny, Johnny,
23:10like in The Shining.
23:13Johnny!
23:13Which is really horrible,
23:14because as a sudden you get that,
23:15that kind of sick, slimy feeling.
23:19He's going to be playing games.
23:24He's going to be playing games.
23:33I didn't know what to do then.
23:35I was just kind of shocked,
23:36and I just went silent.
23:38Move, move!
23:47What are you doing?
23:48What are you doing?
23:48Get out!
23:49Get out!
23:50Get out!
23:51Get out!
23:52Get out!
23:52Get out!
23:54Get out!
23:57What's happening?
23:58What are you doing out there?
24:01I could hear John being bumped in the chest.
24:05I really was in terror then.
24:07Get out!
24:08Get out!
24:08Get out!
24:09Get out!
24:10Get out!
24:11Get out!
24:12Get out!
24:14Get out!
24:15Get out!
24:15Get out!
24:16Get out!
24:17Make no sense!
24:18Make no sense!
24:19Johnny!
24:20Make no sense!
24:21Make no sense!
24:22And I kept on saying,
24:23this is the truth,
24:24and I tell them over and over.
24:26Make no sense!
24:27Get out!
24:29They wanted to hear that I was a spy.
24:31Get out!
24:44I'm sort of seated.
24:47I've got hands behind my back.
24:52GA's got a knife.
24:54And he's just shaking it in front of my face.
24:59Yeah, he pushed the tip of the blade just in my throat here.
25:05And pushed it.
25:06He never broke the skin,
25:08but he just pushed so I could feel the blade.
25:33I felt strangely safe now in this cellar,
25:37and it was a relief to be away
25:40from the craziness that I experienced upstairs.
25:46I really felt this strong love for Camilla,
25:49and I felt, how could I actually express that?
25:58Yeah.
26:01Leave me my wife.
26:06Yes, of course.
26:09And it felt like that we actually merged,
26:12we've become one.
26:13And that, for me,
26:15gave me much more strength
26:17and resolve to get through this situation.
26:36Two other men joined the little team.
26:40One had a bit of a paunch.
26:42And so, well, we called him paunch.
26:48Paunch was probably the most uncommunicative.
26:52Good on, Winchey.
26:55I don't know.
26:57I don't know.
27:06I'm sorry.
27:24Where is my tea?
27:25He came in and he was ranting on about something about we'd opened a packet of tea.
27:31Hey, what are you doing?
27:32Hey, what are you doing?
27:33Hey, what are you doing?
27:36And then he started saying something like, you know, gesturing, like, I'm going to cut your ear off.
27:53And I have a horrible feeling that something not nice is going to happen.
28:14I tried to pull several times and I could just see that the handcuffs were really strong.
28:29He took me by the arm and he pushed me down on this bed.
28:35No.
28:36No.
28:37Leave me.
28:38John, John is my husband.
28:39No, no.
28:41No.
28:45No, no, no.
28:47No.
28:47No, no.
29:01No!
29:01wave of nausea comes over me and a wave of heat and a realisation that Camilla's being raped.
29:13I was praying hard that it would be over quickly.
29:30I remember just sort of thinking of my mother and, you know, just telling her in my mind that this
29:36is what's happened. I've been raped.
30:02I just sat with her and just allowed her to cry.
30:09And about five minutes later...
30:26This is one of the most powerless places I've ever felt myself to be in.
30:34It's total disempowerment.
30:48I thought, what's this? What's this going on?
31:03Do you like to play backgammon, Johnny?
31:08He suggested for me to go and play backgammon with him.
31:11Play?
31:13Ten minutes earlier he was raping my partner, my wife.
31:19And now he's asking me to play backgammon with him.
31:24And I thought, you crazy guy, you don't know, you just don't get it.
31:30And I feel this hatred towards this guy.
31:39And I'm shaking gently into the surface.
31:45It's really difficult to hold the revenge energy, that raw response energy.
31:57Yet.
31:59You don't like to smoke?
32:02I know loads of thoughts rush through my mind.
32:07Relax, Johnny.
32:09I felt at this point in time I could actually overpower him.
32:12Even though he was a big guy.
32:15And I guess he's stoned.
32:18I have this rage inside.
32:19It just wants to reach out and hit him.
32:24She would be your king.
32:31I'm sick!
32:48There's this other part of me that's...
32:50Hang on a minute, you've got to survive.
32:51We've got to survive.
32:52Both of us have got to survive this.
32:57And of course we hoped that would be just the one time, but it wasn't.
33:08It was the darkest time for us.
33:30They came down to the cellar and they stood us up against the wall and they had this little sign
33:35and it said $2 million each.
33:38Hello.
33:39Hi.
33:42We're being well treated and well fed, but please help us.
33:47Please don't make it too much longer. I don't know how long I can stay sane.
33:51We've gone from $1 million to $4 million.
33:57How on earth are our family or anybody going to get to that level of ransom?
34:04We're doing okay, though, and we look forward to seeing you soon.
34:15There was a 10-day deadline, but on like $4 million being paid.
34:21We dance.
34:22Quite late in the night, they got some music going.
34:25Let's dance. Go on.
34:27Well, they were in a really good mood because they thought that now a contact would be made and the
34:32money would come through and we'd be released.
34:35Be happy.
34:36And it was totally surreal.
34:38Who would kind of picture us doing this now with our cactus?
34:45Be happy, Johnny.
34:46Go away.
34:48GA decided he'd start doing a bit of Kung Fu and show me some Kung Fu.
34:53Luckily, I managed to deflect or duck away from most of them.
35:06By this point, I just didn't know that, you know, they would kill us if the money didn't come. I
35:11just didn't know.
35:34But two days passed. Three days passed. Four, five.
35:41Deadline came and went.
35:44So by this stage, I decided that I wasn't going to allow my hopes to be raised, just to be
35:50dashed again.
35:53I've abandoned that whole concept just to safeguard my own sanity.
36:08The temperatures outside started going up and up and up, and the temperature inside started going up and up and
36:16up.
36:18It's okay.
36:20Feels like that.
36:22I want to explode.
36:25When I started to lose it a little bit with the temperature, I just couldn't get cool.
36:30I was just pouring with sweat all night.
36:38Let me out, you twas! You twas!
36:52It was the lowest I'd ever experienced. It was just really hard just to continue living.
37:05What are you doing?
37:07What are you doing?
37:10What are you doing?
37:10Back.
37:18Come on, you want water?
37:20You want food?
37:22Maybe BBC Radio. Tell me what you want.
37:24A book? Food? Tell me.
37:26Come on, Johnny. Tell me. I'll bring it to you.
37:29A radio.
37:32You want a radio?
37:33Please.
37:33Yeah, I thought, do you want a radio?
37:35And I said, yes, I'll have a radio.
37:37Okay, radio.
37:39Come on, Johnny. I'll bring you a radio.
37:41Okay?
37:42And not for a moment did I think that that radio would actually manifest.
37:48And actually, they think that the oil prices can reach 150 dollars per bar.
37:54After a bit of twiddling with the knobs, we eventually found the World Service.
38:00And that was like having a hole punched in the wall.
38:03There was this huge window put there instead.
38:18The workers he employs in the building sector has dropped by a third.
38:27They've been working as volunteers in the war-torn Russian province.
38:30Please don't make it too much longer.
38:33I don't know how long I can stay sane.
38:36Meanwhile, relatives can only hope and wait.
38:39It was like, wow, that video is out there, out in the world.
38:44It said that there were some officers from Scotland Yard in the neighboring state.
38:49Obviously just investigating as best they could.
38:55So we knew that the rest of the world knew that we were still there.
38:59So we were pretty excited about this.
39:04We'd been in captivity over 14 months by this time.
39:07We'd been moved 14 times, I think.
39:11And you try not to hope because, I mean, it's hell to hope.
39:29I mean, this was scary.
39:31My heart was beating.
39:43We get moved again at night, blindfolded, tied up.
40:01It felt like there was just a huge amount of people there.
40:05Lots of armed men.
40:08We were led out into a car.
40:13What have we done?
40:15I could feel this tension in my body, this fear.
40:18Oh, my God, you know, what's happening?
40:28This was the most terrifying thing.
40:32Didn't know if this was the day that we're freed, or the day that we're killed.
40:47We drove down this road.
40:50I felt a nudge.
40:51And then I felt my blindfold being untied.
41:06And then we pointed to Camilla and suggested that I took her blindfold off.
41:20I wasn't quite sure where we were going, you know.
41:22I thought, well, we're either going to freedom or we're going to execution.
41:27Because they don't care.
41:28We see anything anymore.
41:34The man in the front seat turned the right.
41:45You will be pleased to know we are now leaving the Chechenian territory.
41:49You are free.
41:59I just had this wave of elation, excitement, euphoria, all at once.
42:05All just swirled around.
42:10Which is it.
42:11We're on our way home.
42:13We're on our way home.
42:18There was a huge feeling of euphoria then.
42:21The feeling of being alive.
42:23Intense feeling of being alive.
42:27That was magical.
42:29Me.
43:09We made it all through that horrible time, that torment, and we made it, and we got to
43:17this beautiful place.
43:21Camilla was walking down the aisle in a beautiful dress, and it was just, well, sublime is the
43:30only way I can describe it.
43:33It was a wonderful thing to bring everyone together, and for them to see that we were
43:37okay.
43:38It's white.
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