- 3 hours ago
Escaping Polygamy and Starting Over ft. Ashley Sandmire _ Khloé In Wonder Land
We Said What We Said ft. Malika Haqq _ Khloé In Wonder Land
What Are Your Dreams Telling You_ ft. Dream Expert Lauri Loewenberg _ Khloé In Wonder Land
Something Borrowed, Something Sued ft. Hayley Paige _ Khloé In Wonder Land
Join Khloé Kardashian each week for intimate conversations with the people who inspire her the most. Each episode dives deep into relatable and thought-provoking topics, offering a mix of humor, insight, and real-life stories. Whether it’s about navigating life’s challenges, celebrating triumphs, or finding humor in the everyday, this series delivers the kind of real talk that stays with you long after you’ve listened.
New episodes drop every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts.
We Said What We Said ft. Malika Haqq _ Khloé In Wonder Land
What Are Your Dreams Telling You_ ft. Dream Expert Lauri Loewenberg _ Khloé In Wonder Land
Something Borrowed, Something Sued ft. Hayley Paige _ Khloé In Wonder Land
Join Khloé Kardashian each week for intimate conversations with the people who inspire her the most. Each episode dives deep into relatable and thought-provoking topics, offering a mix of humor, insight, and real-life stories. Whether it’s about navigating life’s challenges, celebrating triumphs, or finding humor in the everyday, this series delivers the kind of real talk that stays with you long after you’ve listened.
New episodes drop every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts.
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Things that I wish that I knew when my husband and I left the polygamous religion we were born and
00:04raised in.
00:04I thought that I was going to have to share him and have sister wives.
00:07We were told to lie about it.
00:09I've had the most bizarre, crazy shit happen.
00:12My brother took his life a little over eight years ago.
00:14This has got to stop.
00:16Your story is so fascinating.
00:18You have gone through so much.
00:20Tell me about your childhood.
00:22My dad had 46 kids.
00:24He was abusive in every way.
00:26It was always taught.
00:27You do what the man says and you will obey.
00:30The brainwashing and the toll that it takes, that's scary.
00:33I got married at 18.
00:35Who the hell let me do that?
00:36He was like, I don't know if I want multiple wives.
00:39I would be like, am I enough?
00:41When I gave birth to my daughter, me and my husband were like, she can't live like that.
00:45Is your story going to be something you're going to be just very honest about?
00:49What is even appropriate to tell a seven-year-old?
00:51Do you ever get scared that you left the church?
00:54There's a lot of fear.
00:54I know that there are people living that way that don't want to, and they don't know how to get
00:59out.
00:59What do you want people to take away?
01:01I felt bitter and angry because of the way that I grew up, but you can't live life like that.
01:06Get up, get the f*** out, and leave.
01:14So, Ashley, thank you for being here on Chloe in Wonderland.
01:18You did, I think it was a podcast for someone else, and I saw it on TikTok.
01:22And you were talking about your story and all that you've been through.
01:27And your story is so fascinating, but something that really drew me to you is you have so much
01:33grace and compassion for all the players in your life.
01:39And from what I saw, you didn't come from this place of this victim stance.
01:47You came from a place of really wanting to educate and inform and talk about your journey.
01:51It's really a beautiful way to position life and to position all that you've gone through.
01:56And I really was so enamored by you and your energy and all that.
02:00And so I really wanted you to come on, and I'm so grateful that you did.
02:04That's so cool.
02:04I appreciate that.
02:05I feel so honored to share my story with you.
02:08I'm like such a vibey person, and I just feel like, just like a calm vibe about you.
02:14Yeah, so good.
02:14I've shared it before, but I feel like it's always nerve-wracking the first time, and so
02:20I feel like I feel more comfortable to just share more and be more vulnerable.
02:25So I'm happy to do that with you.
02:27Oh, well, I feel so honored that you're on.
02:28I really do.
02:28And I know you flew in from Utah today, so thank you for doing that.
02:32So first, I wanted you to tell me, tell the viewers, the listeners, about your childhood
02:39and who you are, the type of family that you were born into, because I don't know if a
02:46lot of people know about your history.
02:50I grew up in a very broken version of polygamy growing up.
02:55So my dad had six wives at one point, but my family split up when I was two years old.
03:03And I like to say that I grew up in like a divorced home, like to the next level, because
03:11yeah, there's just so many adults involved.
03:14And my mom chose to stay with my dad, whereas the other wives left.
03:20And I feel like that also like added a lot into my life and maybe more trauma because my
03:27mom chose to stay.
03:28So what was your living situation like?
03:30So your dad had six wives, where the six wives, you guys all have different, like one
03:37wife, like your mom and your siblings would be in one home and then every wife in their
03:42own.
03:42So before my family split up, they actually all lived in trailers and like a trailer court
03:48and no he, no AC, like they were just scraping by.
03:55And that's, it's just like for every family so different, but that's how it was for mine.
03:59Everybody had their own trailer.
04:02But then when my family split up, we moved to like a little town called Lehigh in Utah
04:09until I was about five.
04:11And then my dad wanted to start like his own like community of the religion down a little
04:18bit south in Utah in a little town called Mayfield.
04:21Um, it never ended up really happening.
04:24Like a few people moved down there, but I lived there like up until I moved out at 17.
04:30You guys were raised, is it FLDS?
04:33So I think that's like the most common one that people know is FLDS.
04:37And that's like Warren Jeffs.
04:38So I grew up in the AUB.
04:41I don't know if you've heard of the show Sister Wives.
04:43Yes.
04:43So the Browns, I grew up in the same religion as them.
04:47And in that religion, AUB, is polygamy taught?
04:53Yeah.
04:53It's very like you need to live this way.
04:56That's like the main purpose of living that religion is to have multiple wives or live
05:02plural marriage is what they call it.
05:04Because that gets you to eternal heaven.
05:07I was watching the documentary that you suggested.
05:10Keep Sweet, Pray, Obey.
05:11Keep Sweet.
05:12So that's the Warren Jeffs one.
05:13Yeah.
05:14So I watched that.
05:15Man, that was hard to watch.
05:16I actually didn't finish the end because I was like, this is gross.
05:20I can't handle this.
05:21Especially when you have kids.
05:23Oh, I know.
05:24Like everything hits different when you're a mom.
05:26Everything.
05:27Everything.
05:27Everything.
05:28So it was hard.
05:30And then of course, then I'm like, I'm very empathetic.
05:33I was like, oh, then I'm thinking about you and like what any of this is something that
05:37correlated with your life.
05:38It was a lot.
05:39So in the documentary, it's saying about the more wives you have, the more you're going
05:45to get into heaven.
05:46But it's all about the male perspective.
05:49And then someone's interviewed another gentleman and they're like, so the producer was like,
05:54okay, you keep talking about the men.
05:55Where do the women go when they go to heaven?
05:57And it's just like constant laughter.
06:00And they're like, oh, we don't really know.
06:02Like it's, the women are not held in any high regard from what I gathered.
06:09Yeah.
06:09Is that how you felt when you were in that religion?
06:13Yeah.
06:14I feel like everybody's experience can be different.
06:16But for me personally, growing up, I do feel like it was very much like you do what the
06:22man says.
06:23He's the head of the house and you will obey.
06:29And so I guess growing up, I was exposed to a lot of things.
06:33Like I would say Warren Jeff's polygamy was like the FLDS is a lot like more intense than
06:42the one that I grew up in.
06:43I would say mine is one of the quote unquote better ones to grow up in for sure.
06:47But I feel like it also depends on like the family that you were raised in.
06:53And for me, we were like, maybe we didn't have Warren Jeff's, but we still had pedophiles
07:01that were always allowed to be at our house.
07:03And they know that they're creeps.
07:06Why are they always at our house every day hitting on us all these inappropriate things?
07:10And it was always just taught like, it doesn't matter, like you don't really get a choice
07:17and as a woman.
07:19And that always like bugged me, but it was like hard in that sense of like finding your
07:27voice and also being told you don't really have one.
07:30Right.
07:31And it sounds like your mom, I imagine she got married young.
07:38Very young.
07:39And it sounds, and I have no idea, but a little bit of your story, I would imagine maybe your
07:44mom was sort of groomed or put into this position herself.
07:47Yeah.
07:48I think that she was.
07:50She was 17.
07:52Yeah.
07:52And my dad is 24 years older than her.
07:56So she was 17 and he was like 40 years old.
08:00And I think as I've become a mom, it's just like making me realize even more how messed
08:06up some things are.
08:07And she didn't really get a say.
08:10Like it was just like, well, this guy's interested in me and what they do is courting.
08:15And so he asked about her to her dad.
08:19And then her dad said, yeah, you can date her.
08:23And some dads are like awesome.
08:25And they're like, nope, she's not interested.
08:27You can't date.
08:28Some are like, no, you have to give it a shot.
08:31And that's how my mom's dad was.
08:34That's how my dad was.
08:36And so your dad would say yes on your behalf.
08:41Yeah.
08:41And just like tell my sisters like, well, you have to give him a shot.
08:46My sister had to date this like way older man.
08:52And she was like so creeped out by him and was just like, no, I don't want to.
08:57But my dad made her and he like came to our house.
09:00We had dinner with him.
09:01That's kind of like how the courting starts is like you get to know them.
09:04And you and start dating them.
09:06And sometimes they have multiple wives.
09:08So then you get to know the other wives.
09:09And this guy didn't have other wives yet.
09:12But my sister was young.
09:14She's probably 17, 18.
09:15And I just remember it being so uncomfortable.
09:18And I was younger because I'm like five years younger than her.
09:21And I was just like, what is going on?
09:23Yeah.
09:24And that's traumatizing in and of itself.
09:26Just being a witness to that.
09:28You have such compassion and grace for people,
09:32especially the ones that maybe put you in the line of fire at times.
09:36And it says so much about your integrity and character of a person.
09:40But I would fight if it were me like, okay, I love and respect my mom.
09:45And I also have empathy because her parents didn't protect her.
09:50So she knows no better.
09:52Yeah.
09:52But then you're also like, but you should know better.
09:55But that's not okay.
09:55Yes.
09:56Because I feel that exactly what you're saying.
10:00Yeah, so I would be torn into two ways.
10:01And so when I was researching your story, I was like, oh, like you want to be like,
10:05why did you do that to me?
10:06But then you're like, but someone did that to you.
10:09So I get it.
10:11Yeah.
10:11And then I'm sure, you know, at this point or when she was 17 for until she had all 12
10:17of you guys,
10:18probably the brainwashing that was happening to her young mind.
10:23Like it's 17 is so little, so little.
10:26I know we feel so grown at 17, but we're not.
10:29I know you feel grown at 17.
10:31I got married at 18 and I'm like, who the hell let me do that?
10:35Totally.
10:36I got married at 24 and I question all this.
10:38I'm always like 24.
10:40I mean, I, it was amazing, but I'm like, that is a baby.
10:45So yes, but I can't understand.
10:48And maybe the two angels you have on your shoulder, like, cause you also want to be entitled
10:54to your feelings about like, why did, like to be that little girl, like mommy, I want help
10:59protect me.
10:59But then you're also sort of wanting to be a mother to her.
11:02I still go through this right now because being a mother myself, I'm like, but how could
11:07you?
11:07Because I grew up the same way and I was like, no, this isn't okay.
11:10Right.
11:11And I was able to like work through that and be like, no, find my voice.
11:15I don't like this.
11:16This isn't okay.
11:17And it was becoming a mom that made me leave, that helped me leave because when I gave birth
11:23to my daughter, me and my, I'm going to get emotional.
11:27That was just like the change for me because me and my husband were like, she can't live
11:34like that.
11:35That's not the life that we want for her.
11:37And we don't, we want her to be loved and protected and cared for because that's what
11:41she deserves.
11:44And so then like, I have that dug and pull with my mom.
11:47Cause I'm like, the second I became a mother, I was like, no, this isn't okay.
11:53But then I still have that compassion where I'm like, well, crap, you didn't even get a
11:58chance.
11:59Right.
11:59You were so young, got married so young, just kept popping babies out every two years.
12:04And also having that many kids too, the postpartum, the way that we feel about ourselves and sometimes
12:11It messes with you.
12:12Yeah, it does.
12:13And we do become sometimes weaker emotionally or like what we're like, we don't feel like
12:18we have the strength to do certain things sometimes.
12:20I feel bad because your mom is still a person too.
12:24Like sometimes we put our parents on these pedestals.
12:26It's her first time living too.
12:28Yeah.
12:29Yeah.
12:29And that many kids, it does affect you.
12:32And not only that, but like I had other siblings coming to our house all the time.
12:37She was having to mother them too.
12:39And anytime some of my older siblings were like lashing out, having struggles, they would
12:45send them to our house.
12:46And then we would deal with the repercussions of my brothers in these crazy phases of their
12:53life.
12:53Yeah.
12:54On top of like, just my, just my mom not being able to emotionally be there.
13:00Have you ever left a doctor's appointment with results in hand, but still no real understanding
13:06of what they actually mean?
13:08Or what are you supposed to do next?
13:10Or maybe you felt like something in your body was off, but the answers kept coming back
13:15as fine.
13:17That loop of uncertainty is exhausting.
13:20Hers understands.
13:21As women, we're often told to listen to our bodies, but too often we're left without
13:27the information to actually understand them.
13:30And when reassurance alone isn't enough, knowing what's really going on inside your body matters.
13:37Hers is rethinking the outdated healthcare system to finally give women what they deserve.
13:43Care that's convenient, supportive, built around real needs, and backed by experts in women's
13:49health.
13:49This is about clarity, not guesswork.
13:53Hers now provides convenient access to in-depth holistic lab testing with more than 130 biomarker
14:01tests designed to give meaningful insight to your health and results that make it easier
14:07to understand what's actually going on inside your body instead of leaving you with more questions.
14:12If eligible, you get access to a doctor-developed action plan based on your results with diet
14:19and lifestyle guidance to help you move towards your goals.
14:23So you're not just handed information, you're supported through what comes next.
14:28Hers also offers personalized treatment plans for heart health, menopause, and so much more.
14:35It's a new level of clarity, one that gives data-backed confidence to make informed health decisions
14:41so feeling like yourself again doesn't feel so far away.
14:45If you want clearer insight into your health, go to forhers.com and schedule your labs today.
14:51That's f-o-r-h-e-r-s dot com, forhers.com.
14:59So you grew up AUB religion and being in a polygamist family.
15:04Do you go to a regular school?
15:06Yeah.
15:07Okay.
15:07Not everybody does, but I did.
15:10We live far away from any of the other communities.
15:13Like I said, my dad tried to start one, didn't happen.
15:17And so I went to the public school that was just 10 minutes away from me.
15:21And I'm grateful for that in ways because I feel like at first it was hard because
15:29in elementary school it's fun, middle school kids get mean.
15:33And I grew up in a small town, so everybody knows everything about everybody.
15:38And I would get made fun of for being a polygamist.
15:41And I didn't really feel like I had anywhere to turn to because
15:46anytime I would come to my parents, they wouldn't hear me.
15:50And so that was a tough time in my life.
15:52But then high school got better and I was on the soccer team and I loved it.
15:57And that's kind of what kept me in school because I was not like,
16:00I did not love school.
16:02I didn't love to do homework or learn or do any of those things.
16:05But I loved sports and I loved making friends.
16:09It's probably a good outlet for you.
16:11Yeah, for sure.
16:12Do you think going to a regular school?
16:14Because I know some of the, is it Mormon, is the religion's Mormon?
16:21No?
16:22Kind of, people get, it's so confusing because, so like the LDS church,
16:27they don't really like being called Mormons anymore because I think like years and years
16:35ago they used to practice polygamy.
16:37And then one day there was this thing called the Mormon Manifesto and the president of the
16:42church, Wilford Woodruff, was like, we're no longer practicing polygamy.
16:47So they haven't done that for a very long time.
16:50But then when that happened, there were tons of breakoffs of different polygamist religions.
16:55And the one that I grew up in, the AUB, is just one of those many breakoffs.
16:59Understood.
16:59The FLDS, Warren Jeffs, one of the many breakoffs.
17:02And they all believe just slightly different things.
17:05And some of them are just a lot more crazy than the others.
17:08A lot of the ones that have their own like compounds, if you will,
17:13it seems like they funnel in specific education.
17:17So a lot of kids aren't even exposed to what could be happening in their lives.
17:24Like they think this is so normal.
17:25So I wonder if, like you were saying, but I knew this was wrong.
17:30I knew I didn't like this.
17:31I also wonder if that's because you went to a public school and maybe got a little exposure
17:36to what was really happening.
17:38Yeah.
17:38Well, I'm like just an observer.
17:40I feel like I learned from observing other people.
17:43And I would notice my friends' lives and their families and be like, this is kind of weird.
17:49Like it's different.
17:50And like I would go and hang out at my best friend's house for months.
17:56And my parents wouldn't even like ask where I was.
17:59And I'm like, this is kind of weird.
18:01Like my friends' parents are always like calling them and texting them like all the time.
18:05Right.
18:06My parents don't even care where I am.
18:07So that's interesting because I always felt like in those religions it was,
18:11and maybe this is just my ignorance, like it was a little more cult-like
18:16where like they wanted to keep eyes on you guys more because no one wanted to be exposed, right?
18:21I really think that it depends on the family that you're in.
18:25I really think my mom was just so checked out with so many kids.
18:28That's a lot.
18:29And my dad was just doing whatever the crap he was doing.
18:32And I was just doing whatever I was doing.
18:36But do you maybe in hindsight appreciate that, that you had a little more freedom?
18:41Because maybe you didn't have to go through.
18:43Because you're part of the youngest.
18:45Yes.
18:46Right out of the 12.
18:47Because my dad had 46 kids, give or take.
18:50Merry Christmas.
18:51Merry Christmas to us.
18:53No, like sometimes we didn't even know if we'd get Christmas.
18:56Of course.
18:57That's the crazy thing.
18:57Yeah.
18:58I think I was like number 38.
18:59I'm like one of the youngest of them because I was two and my family split up.
19:04My mom was pregnant with my brother just below me.
19:07And then my mom stayed with my dad and had a few more kids with him.
19:11So yeah.
19:11A lot of kids.
19:12Yeah.
19:13Are you close with all your 12 siblings?
19:16No.
19:17It's like hard.
19:18Yeah.
19:18I'm close with a few of them, probably about half.
19:22But I think it's hard because some of them are still in that religion.
19:26And I don't care if you're like, I know so many people that still live that way.
19:31And they're like really good people and they're just trying their best.
19:34And they truly believe that they're doing what is right.
19:36Right.
19:37But sometimes it does cause that divide.
19:39Like if you choose to leave, then people are kind of like, well, you're a bad example.
19:43I don't really want to hang around you.
19:45No, I get that.
19:46But a good portion of my mom's kids have left.
19:48And your mom is still, she's stayed in the religion.
19:51So she just recently left.
19:53Wow.
19:54Like within this last year.
19:55Wow.
19:55So she like started going to therapy and that's also major.
20:01I know because growing up like therapy, mental health, all of that was so stigmatized.
20:06You just sweep it under the rug.
20:08I think that my mom probably dealt with postpartum depression, mental health issues, and she never
20:13even knew that she did.
20:13Right.
20:14Because you don't talk about it and you just pretend like you're okay.
20:17Your mother leaving, has that made you want to have a stronger relationship with her?
20:26I think, I think I've always had that want kind of because she's my mom and like I long
20:34for that mother bond that I've never really had since I was like little, little.
20:39I see growth happening with her and like she's leaving my dad.
20:42He's, he's abusive and very toxic and she's finally leaving him and she's been going to
20:48therapy and that's been helping her.
20:50She did recently realize like, oh, I have, like I was groomed and I never really did get
20:56to have a voice or find out who I was before I had a million kids.
21:02And I, once again, I have so much grace and compassion with her, but she still has a lot
21:09more to go.
21:11So, oh, this is so heartbreaking.
21:13That's actually really.
21:14No, I, it's hard, but I'm like so thankful for my kids because even though I don't have
21:19a close relationship with my mom, at least I get to be the mom that I always wish that
21:25I had and not saying that I'm a perfect mom, but I do think that I do a really good
21:29job.
21:30And I just spend so much time with my kids, making sure that they feel heard and seen
21:36and loved.
21:36And I just feel like that's something that I never got as a kid.
21:39Speaking of that, what was your emotional support as a kid?
21:44Like, who would you turn to if you needed what the normal parental would do for you?
21:50I feel like sometimes I would turn to friends.
21:53When your friends are so young too, it's kind of like, they don't realize the depth of maybe
21:57what you're going through.
21:58And then also like siblings, but then like, they're going through their own, you know?
22:04And I have my mom's oldest daughter, Camilla.
22:09I, to this day, call her Mama Cam because I would go to her for a lot of stuff.
22:13Yeah.
22:14Kind of having some type of mother figure because she would like, let me sleep over there whenever
22:19I needed and vent to her if I needed to, or buy me underwear if I needed it.
22:26For your dad, was he prominent in your life or was he sort of just doing his own thing and
22:32it was more the mom's?
22:34He was kind of back and forth because he ended up getting a job that was two hours up north
22:40away from us.
22:40So he'd be gone all week and then come home on the weekends.
22:43And sometimes we'd see him, like we'd go and visit him, but he didn't parent us at
22:49all.
22:49It was more of like the religious stuff.
22:51Like, I want you to do this.
22:52I expect you to be like this, but it was never like parenting, I guess.
22:58It's so interesting that even if your dad was gone so much that your mom still felt like
23:04such a need to stay.
23:06I know.
23:07And that's what's like so hard.
23:08When you are born and raised into something, you're brainwashed into believing that this
23:15is the way.
23:15And there's a lot of fear, right?
23:17If you don't live this way, you won't be with your loved ones when you die and you won't
23:21have that eternal family and you won't get to be with your kids and your husband when
23:25you die.
23:26That's scary.
23:27That's a terrifying feeling.
23:29And that's why I almost lived that way because I was like so scared about not being able to
23:38be with my loved ones when I die.
23:39How did you meet your husband?
23:41He grew up in the same polygamist religion.
23:43He did.
23:44So when I was 16, my 14-year-old brother took his life.
23:50I'm so sorry.
23:51And yeah, that was so crazy and such a hard time in my life.
23:58And my husband, Paul, 12 days after my brother took his life, my husband, Paul's brother died
24:06in a tragic construction accident.
24:09Oh my gosh.
24:09And so Paul and I like knew each other because we grew up in the same religion.
24:13But after we lost our brother so close to each other, we like started reaching out to
24:18each other, started confiding in each other.
24:21And we were both close to our brothers.
24:23So it was just nice to be able to talk to someone who understood it, even though they
24:28died in different ways.
24:29They were both very tragic.
24:31So when Paul and I met each other, we were going to church together.
24:35We were going to live polygamy.
24:37We would talk about getting sister wives.
24:39And it always made me feel a little like, I don't want to share you.
24:44I don't want to share you.
24:45When I started like feeling love for him, I was like, I have to share you with other women?
24:51Like this sucks, but we were just going to do it because of the pressure.
24:56And I think that we wanted to leave for a while after having my daughter that gave us
25:01the like strength to be like, I'm not going to let this control me anymore and hover over
25:07me anymore.
25:08I need to do this for my daughter.
25:10She deserves a better life.
25:12And sometimes it just takes something like that to help you make the step that you need
25:17in life.
25:18So you guys got married, had your baby, and then together, we're just honest and brave
25:24enough to say, I want to leave this religion.
25:28Yeah.
25:28And is that something you do like in the darkness of night?
25:32Or do you leave like you're honest with everyone?
25:34Or do you sort of have to run away?
25:37For Paul and I specifically, we didn't have to escape or like we weren't shut out by our
25:43families because we chose not to live that way.
25:45Like they're still in our lives, just this slow, gradual process of like not going anymore.
25:51And then they're like, why aren't you going to church anymore?
25:53What are you doing?
25:54And then we finally had to be like honest about it.
25:57But that was hard for me.
25:59It was like, I'm not super close with my parents.
26:01It was kind of like, whatever, I'm going to do my thing.
26:04It almost made it easier.
26:05But for Paul, like he didn't want to disappoint his loved ones too.
26:09And so it was like this process of, I think that's the hardest thing about like sometimes
26:16when you make decisions for yourself, it might disappoint people that you love and care about,
26:22but that doesn't mean that it's the wrong decision.
26:24No, it doesn't.
26:25And you're so strong for breaking that generational cycle and for doing that and doing it for
26:32your children.
26:33I mean, the way they're going to feel when they're older and you get to tell them your
26:38story, is your story going to be something that you're going to be just very honest about
26:44with your kids?
26:45Yeah.
26:46I'm just an honest person.
26:48Like I feel like that causes more issues with your relationships with your children than
26:53anything, if you're not honest with them.
26:55And I think that honesty comes at different levels on their age.
26:58Like my oldest is seven.
27:00She doesn't even understand the life that I grew up in and it hasn't even clicked to her
27:06how crazy it is because.
27:08Well, they don't know.
27:09Well, and also like anytime we are around family that still lives that way, the husband
27:14isn't ever present.
27:15Right.
27:15Like they just see their aunties or whatever.
27:18And so she doesn't realize he's married to five women, six women.
27:23But with my brother taking his life, she's already asked questions about that.
27:29And I'm like, how do you tell a seven-year-old?
27:31Well, yeah.
27:32What do you say in that situation?
27:34Because did she meet him?
27:36No, right?
27:37She never met him because I was 16 when he passed.
27:40So my brother is 14.
27:42I was 16 and then I had her, I was pregnant with her at 19, had her at 20 years
27:48old.
27:50And so I was a baby, having a baby.
27:52And it's crazy because I feel like my kids have just been growing up with me and my husband
27:58has just been, we're just like growing up together.
28:01Maybe he comes to her.
28:03Yeah.
28:03Oh, he has.
28:05That's the craziest thing.
28:06Okay.
28:06I believe in all that.
28:07So, no, I'm telling you he has because one time I, because I'll like post about my brother
28:14and try and like spread mental health awareness and suicide awareness because it's not talked
28:19about enough, especially in children.
28:21My brother was a child.
28:22Right.
28:22And I had this post that I was posting and she was three years old and she was like,
28:31oh, mom, I was playing with him outside.
28:34Oh my gosh.
28:35And I was like, are you sure?
28:37Like, I thought maybe she was confusing him with my other brother that's six years younger
28:41than me.
28:41Okay.
28:42But my brother, the past was only two years younger than me.
28:45And I was like, oh, you mean like Uncle Caleb?
28:48And I like show her a picture of him.
28:50She's like, no, it was him.
28:52And she was like, we were playing catch outside and he kept sticking his tongue out at me like
28:56this.
28:57Eh, eh.
28:59And that is what like rung true to me because that's what my brother Ammon would do all the
29:04time.
29:05Oh, I believe that.
29:06And he has so many selfies of him sticking his tongue out like that.
29:09So the second she told me that, I had chills through my body.
29:13I was like, okay, I believe you.
29:15What the heck?
29:16Oh, I believe that.
29:17And, you know, spirits and angels, they come to children because they're the most innocent
29:23and like their guard is down.
29:24And I think sometimes adults get freaked out.
29:27But I believe that you have to hold on to that story forever.
29:30Oh, I know.
29:30I have to.
29:31It was so special and it's crazy because like I still will feel my brother sometimes,
29:36but I actually haven't felt him in a while.
29:38But when I was at the airport, I like felt him.
29:41Oh, I like got these chills.
29:42And I was like, he's with me.
29:45He is with you.
29:46And the more you talk to him and all that, he'll show up for you and all of that.
29:51Yeah.
29:51Do you think your religion had anything to do with him having such mental health?
29:58I don't know.
30:00I've, I've been asked that before and it's hard to say because he never specifically
30:04told me that, but he did.
30:07He would tell me like, I don't feel like this is right.
30:11Like, do you really want to have like multiple sister wives?
30:15Like he would ask me that and I'd be like, I don't know.
30:18Right.
30:18So he would question it like a lot and be like, this just doesn't feel right.
30:22I don't think that this is right.
30:23I don't want to live that way.
30:24And I don't think that that was necessarily why, but I do think that we grew up with a
30:30lot of, oh my, the trauma goes so deep.
30:33It's like, that's just like a whole, so much, so much story to tell.
30:38So I'm sure that there was so much going on in his life that even I didn't know about because
30:43him and I were close.
30:44And when he took his life, I seriously was so clueless.
30:49I was like, what?
30:50Like, how did this even happen?
30:52But when something like that happens, who do you go to?
30:55Because that is beyond, the word trauma seems so empty for something like that.
31:01Like I could never, I couldn't imagine that happening in my life.
31:05And then I couldn't imagine that.
31:07And then not having a mom or a dad to turn to and be consoled and loved through that time.
31:14Like, what do you, what do you do?
31:16Who do you go to?
31:17I think I just, I clung to my siblings, my husband, and TikTok.
31:25Yeah, no, but it's like.
31:26Sharing my story on TikTok, finding other people that have been through it too, you know, through
31:31other situations.
31:32And also like, I just feel like losing him was probably, if not the most painful thing
31:40I've ever gone through in my life.
31:42And after he passed, I truly believe that it was my fault.
31:46And that's something that can be super common when you lose someone to suicide is believing
31:50that it's your fault.
31:52And that really messed with me for a while.
31:54May I ask why you think that or why you thought that?
31:56I think that I just was like, I should have known.
31:59Like, I should have saw the signs.
32:01I should have known.
32:02And I should have stopped this from happening.
32:03And also this weird thing happened that I like will always remember for some reason.
32:08But like a month before he had passed, we were, me, him, and my dad were driving in the
32:14car.
32:14And I had this like super like strong thought in my brain, like Ammon's going to kill himself.
32:21And I was like, ew, like I like pushed it out of my head because I was like, that is
32:25a
32:26gross thought.
32:26Like, why would I think that?
32:27And we grew up like dreams, thoughts that we have, like all of those have meaning to
32:32them and they carry a lot of meaning.
32:34And so then I feel like I really took that to heart and was like, this was God trying
32:40to tell me and I didn't listen and now he's gone.
32:43And I was 16.
32:45Like I did not realize even how young I was when I was going through such a loss in my
32:51life.
32:51But I was able to work through it and I, you know, I was pretty suicidal and my husband
32:59when I was dating him, he one night when we were together just randomly decided to tell
33:05me how much I meant to him, how much my life meant and how I brighten people's lives around
33:10me.
33:11And something with what he said clicked to me and I was like, you know, like I do matter.
33:18People do care about me and I do need to hang on.
33:21And I think that people forget how much little things like that really do matter.
33:27Like reaching out to people when they're struggling, doing acts of kindness when someone is struggling.
33:33And that's something that's helped me with the grief of losing my brother is doing acts
33:37of kindness for people.
33:39And I'll do like his blue was his favorite color.
33:42And so I'll do random acts of blue and I'll just give them to strangers or I'll give them
33:47to someone that I know is struggling and things like that helped me feel close to him.
33:52And like, he's with me.
33:53So you'll always keep his memory alive when you do anything in thought of him.
33:59I would think if I because I have trust issues, having I'm just wondering, like, do you like
34:11do you question, like, is your husband, like, I would be like, am I enough?
34:15Because you all these men saw were like, I need to have five wives.
34:21I need to have seven wives, whatever it is.
34:23Would you yourself question, like, is this, like, entertaining enough?
34:29Is this fulfilling enough?
34:30Just I totally see where you're coming from.
34:32I think something that helped me not ever feel that way with him was even when we were
34:37dating, I think the reason why I felt comfort and even staying with him was because, like,
34:42part of me didn't really want to live that way.
34:44But I didn't really know, like, maybe didn't have the strength to just be like, I don't want
34:49to live this way.
34:50Now, where do I go?
34:50Who's going to want me?
34:51You know, but he we had a conversation and he was like, I don't know how I feel about
34:57the plural marriage.
34:58Like, I don't know if I want multiple wives.
35:01And we both were just like, well, we kind of have to like, this is what we have to do.
35:05And so we would have those conversations.
35:07And looking back, I'm like, we were so young to be having those conversations.
35:10But I think him being on the same page as me and him vocalizing that to me before I vocalized
35:17it to him, I was like, okay, this like made me have some trust in him because I was like,
35:22okay, you're not just wanting to get like a million wives.
35:25You're just wanting to get them because we have to, not because you like want all these
35:29wives.
35:30So I think that that helped for sure.
35:32I think it's so special that you guys came from similar upbringings because I think you
35:37guys can relate and obviously you guys have your trauma bonding from all the stuff you've
35:42been through, but you guys are on such parallel journeys.
35:45I think it's so much easier to get out together and how you said you and your husband are growing
35:50together.
35:51I mean, that's really what marriage is.
35:53You're going to have your ups and your downs, but as long as you both don't stay stagnant,
35:57like you guys want to be.
35:59We change together.
35:59Yes.
36:00Because we're all going to change, especially being so young.
36:02We are completely different people.
36:04Yes.
36:04Than we were when we first got married.
36:06It's like jump scare.
36:08Yeah.
36:08It's truly a jump scare.
36:10The beauty is it's together.
36:11You have three kids.
36:13What kids do you have?
36:14Boys, girls?
36:15I have a daughter, Brooklyn, and then a son, Cashton, and then another son, Chapman, and
36:21they're all like three years apart.
36:22So cute.
36:23Yeah.
36:24I have a seven-year-old daughter and a three-year-old son.
36:27So like the same ages.
36:28It's the best.
36:29Do you want to have more kids?
36:30I would only have one more if I were to have more kids because I just want to be able
36:36to mentally, financially, all the things, be able to be there for my kids.
36:40So I don't know.
36:41Like my daughter's like, I need a sister.
36:44And I'm like, I can't guarantee that.
36:46And I'm sorry.
36:47And it's like, I know what it was like to grow up with having sisters.
36:50And I have sisters that I am close to.
36:52And so I'm like, I'm sorry that you might not get that.
36:56But she has cousins, right?
36:59I have four sisters and one brother.
37:00And I wish I could give my daughter, True, a sister because I love my relationship.
37:07Having a sister.
37:08I love it.
37:08The relationship is so special.
37:11So special.
37:11Like it's the best, but I'm also like, I don't know if I have the bandwidth for a third.
37:17And I'm also not married and I want to be married to have more kids.
37:20But yeah, so I don't know.
37:22But we have cousins and they're close like sisters.
37:25So I'm like, we're all good.
37:26That's how I feel.
37:26She has a cousin that she's so close to and they see each other every week and they're
37:31the same age.
37:32And I'm like, you have her.
37:34Yeah.
37:35We have to tell ourselves.
37:36You at least have her.
37:36That's enough.
37:37When you had kids, do you think it gave, I know it gave you strength to leave your religion,
37:44but do you think it gave you understanding or more compassion for your mother?
37:50I think at first I was just very angry at her.
37:53Honestly, if I'm being real.
37:54Yeah.
37:55I had my kids and I was like, what the hell?
37:57Right.
37:57Do you even love me?
37:59Sometimes I still question it.
38:00I'm like, I know what a mother's love feels like.
38:04And so it's hard for me to see it any other way.
38:08It's just like, you love your kid.
38:09This is what you do.
38:10Have you ever had these conversations with her?
38:13She can't handle it.
38:14So I think going to therapy, this is like something my mom has always done.
38:18And I think she's becoming aware that she does it.
38:22And now she's learning how to not do it.
38:25But anytime, anytime when we were kids, we would tell her the most bizarre thing that
38:31happened to us and she'd be like, oh, and not say a word.
38:35That was it.
38:36Zone it out.
38:37Block it out.
38:37Not talk about it.
38:38Never bring it up again.
38:41And she just shuts down.
38:43Wow.
38:43Completely shuts down when she's uncomfortable.
38:46And I honestly think that's part of what has made us not have the greatest relationship
38:51because I'm such an honest, upfront person.
38:54And I will tell you how it is.
38:56I'll tell you in a nice way.
38:58Right.
38:58Maybe when I was younger, I wasn't nice, but as I've grown up and matured a little bit,
39:03like I'll tell you in a nice way, but I'm going to be real with you.
39:06And I just don't think that she has been able to handle that.
39:09But I do see her getting there.
39:10Maybe like if she continues to go to therapy and she has started to become aware that she
39:16shuts down, I just think that it is going to be the longest process.
39:19And maybe like we would have to go to therapy together.
39:22Honestly, that might be smart.
39:24I don't know if she could handle it right away.
39:25That's what I'm saying.
39:26I don't think she's, oh, I don't think she's there yet.
39:29I mean, it sounds.
39:31Or maybe never will be.
39:32And I don't know.
39:32And I have that expectation that it just might not ever happen.
39:35And it is what it is.
39:36I think we have to realize how hard it is to change ourselves.
39:40Yeah.
39:41And how much effort and work it takes to change something about ourselves.
39:45And you normally only change it if you find there to be a problem with it.
39:49Yeah.
39:49If other people say it, you're like, whatever, that's your problem.
39:52You almost become defensive or like, whatever.
39:54Or I'm going to be me.
39:55Like, I'm going to be more like that because you're telling me not to be.
39:58Yeah.
39:58So I think I just have to not have expectations because that is what causes the hurt.
40:04Yes.
40:04I used to have expectations and I would be hurt all the time.
40:07Yeah.
40:08So now it's just like, if she ends up healing more, going to therapy more, and she wants
40:13to have those conversations, I'm so ready.
40:15Yeah.
40:15It's so weird because like, she hasn't really been there in my life.
40:18My kids barely know who she is.
40:21And recently, because she's been going to therapy, like, they've seen her a couple of
40:25times this last year.
40:27And it was so sad because they're like, who is that?
40:31I'm like, it's your grandma.
40:33Yeah.
40:33That's my mom.
40:34Yeah.
40:35And I think she's kind of expressed that maybe she wants to be more in our lives.
40:42That's sweet though.
40:43But it's like, and I think it is sweet.
40:45I just think that it's very complex.
40:48Right.
40:48And it's not like, I don't know.
40:50Well, I also like have that mother in me that's like, are you going to stay?
40:54Are you going to continue to grow?
40:55Because like, I can't have close relationships.
40:59My kids can't have close relationships with people like that, you know?
41:02Well, I was going to say, when you see her, does she activate or trigger something in
41:07you that I'm imagining she reminds you of a lot of dark times in your life?
41:14Yeah, for sure.
41:15So maybe it's healthier for you that sadly she's not.
41:18And I think it's just like, I don't feel that like mother bond with her because I haven't
41:22for a long time.
41:23So when I am with her, it just feels weird.
41:25Right.
41:26It doesn't.
41:26I guess because like, I know what it feels like when I'm with my kids and how my kids feel
41:31when they're with me and I just don't feel like that's, there's like some sort of like
41:36disconnect, I guess.
41:37I honestly feel like your mom, especially with how you're saying if you told her something
41:41crazy and she just like ignores it.
41:45Yeah.
41:46It sounds like your mom had probably a really f***ed up childhood.
41:50Yeah.
41:50And she was probably, for lack of a better word, like trained or conditioned.
41:54You can't have an opinion.
41:56You can't have a voice.
41:57And I don't want you to really even comment on anything that you're seeing.
42:00And then she married a man that continued to treat her that way.
42:04So sad.
42:05I know.
42:06I truly have so much compassion for her.
42:08I really do.
42:08No.
42:09And I love you for that too, but I also have so much respect for you that you're taking
42:14care of you.
42:15Yes.
42:16But it's mainly for your kids.
42:17It just shows that I love them.
42:19That's what I'm saying.
42:20I'm like, isn't this just what moms do?
42:23But if she never felt that or had that herself, she doesn't know that's what moms do.
42:27I know.
42:27But that's what's so crazy.
42:29I didn't have that either.
42:30You're right.
42:31Yeah.
42:32And that's the tug and pull.
42:33Do you have any communication with your dad?
42:36No.
42:37None.
42:37For how long?
42:38I think the last time I talked to him was a year or so ago.
42:41But no, I do not have a relationship with him, nor do I care to, honestly.
42:47Like, he was abusive in every way to his kids, to his wife, and he fought in Vietnam and got
42:58terrible PTSD from it, but he wanted to do it.
43:02Like, that's what's actually crazy.
43:04And maybe I'll just talk about this, I guess.
43:07But one of the last times I talked to him, I asked him, like, I had read this book about
43:13Vietnam.
43:14And I was like, wow, I didn't realize the stuff that you went through.
43:16And I'm trying to, like, you know, I was trying to have compassion for him, even though he's
43:21just not a good person.
43:22And I was, you know, trying to talk with him about it and just, like, see his perspective of it.
43:28And it just left me feeling more icky.
43:30I was like, oh, okay, I really don't want a relationship with you.
43:33I read a book.
43:34It was called The Women.
43:36And I told him, I'm like, yeah, I read this book called The Women.
43:39And he's like, you want to know how many women I was with in Nam?
43:41You want to know if you have Nam siblings?
43:43I'm like, so are you telling me I have Nam siblings?
43:46Right.
43:46That's how he tells you things?
43:48So I'm like, yeah, I have 45 siblings.
43:49Maybe.
43:51Like, maybe.
43:51How many more could you have?
43:53I don't know.
43:54He's a very fertile man.
43:56Yeah.
43:56Yeah.
43:57Yeah.
43:57That's crazy.
43:58And he just, I don't know, the whole conversation, I felt so icky.
44:01And I realized, I don't have any more, I don't feel compassion for you.
44:06You're just not a good person.
44:07Whereas he doesn't seem like he has compassion for you either.
44:10No.
44:11Like how he's telling you these things, he's just like, yeah, here.
44:15No.
44:16So I get why you wouldn't.
44:18Yeah.
44:18Whereas with my mom, it's like, I don't think she's, I don't think she's a terrible person.
44:22I don't, I think that she just like, like we've talked about all the things of the way
44:27that she grew up and things like that.
44:29Whereas with him, I'm like, I'm just a bad person.
44:31Yeah.
44:32And that just is what it is.
44:33Yeah.
44:35Did you get to have traditions as a kid?
44:38Like, did you guys celebrate holidays or?
44:41Yeah.
44:42You did?
44:42We did.
44:43So there was still that like family aspect.
44:46Yeah.
44:46Okay.
44:47I think that was honestly like probably my best times as a childhood was the holidays
44:52because a lot of times some of my siblings would come and visit and I'd always be so happy
44:57if I got to see my siblings.
44:58That in itself was magical.
45:00It was like already like, oh, this is special because I get to be with my other siblings.
45:04Right.
45:04And I don't know.
45:06There's just something magical about holidays.
45:08There is.
45:09Yes.
45:09Yeah.
45:10We did celebrate Christmas and Easter, but I mean, we were never taught about the Easter
45:17bunny or anything.
45:18It was just like, we're going to go hide eggs and whatever.
45:22Social media is sort of therapy for you.
45:25Yeah.
45:25Do you get any heat for talking about the church?
45:31I mean, yeah, I've gotten a little bit of heat for it.
45:34I think the main thing is, is I think it's just so uncomfortable for people because growing
45:40up, we were told that you don't talk about this.
45:43Got it.
45:43And when my siblings would come to my school, like sometimes a sibling would come live with
45:48us for a little bit if they were having issues or whatever, or my friends would come over
45:53and I had siblings over.
45:54It was always, these are my cousins.
45:56We had to call our siblings, our cousins and kind of be hush hush about it.
46:01Why is that?
46:01Just because I think.
46:03Because it wasn't supposed to.
46:04Because it's not like legal.
46:06Got it.
46:07So I think that was part of it.
46:08It was because it wasn't legal and because of like the hate that would come with it too,
46:13I think.
46:13I know that they don't want you to.
46:16Like it's not, like me talking about it definitely makes people uncomfortable.
46:21But at the same.
46:22I think it makes that community uncomfortable.
46:23Yeah, for sure.
46:24And then wouldn't you think it helps?
46:27And who knows, maybe there's someone that was in your position that gets to hear your voice
46:31and hear your story and maybe you give them the strength and the hope to know like, wow,
46:35okay, this isn't normal.
46:37And that's all I could hope for.
46:39Because like is, although it can be hard sometimes because it's like when people are like bugged
46:44about me talking about it, at the same time, I'm like, I know that there are people living that way
46:50that don't want to and they don't know how to get out.
46:52Yeah.
46:53Because even though you don't have to escape, like maybe physically, mentally, the escape is insane.
47:00The brainwashing and the toll that it takes on you to leave something like that, it messes with you.
47:07And it messed with me for a while, even after I left.
47:10Even what you said about feeling like you're not going to go to heaven with your, or is that what
47:15you consider it?
47:16Heaven with your family and your siblings and your kids, like that alone would make anyone sit down.
47:24I used to like, I realized that I started struggling with some like religious OCD and I never realized
47:32until I had kids that I like struggled with it. But I literally, after we left, I would pray every
47:40night for God to not take my daughter from me. I literally thought she was going to die because
47:47we didn't, we chose to not live that way. She didn't get a special baby blessing that they do
47:52all these things. And I didn't even realize that it was like messing with me. And when I realized
48:00that, I was like, whoa, this is crazy. Like I should not be having to pray every night for my
48:06daughter to not die. Like that is taxing.
48:09Yeah.
48:10To say the least.
48:11Yeah. To say the least.
48:12As a mother, you're like, no.
48:14Oh my gosh, that's horrible.
48:14I'm sure you get it. You're like, no.
48:16Oh no. When I have dark thoughts, I'm like, cancel, cancel, and this isn't happening.
48:20Yeah.
48:20What do you want people to take away from this?
48:25I think if I could use my voice in any way for good, it's that there is nothing more powerful
48:33than being authentic to who you are. Even if it makes other people uncomfortable. Even if it makes
48:41you uncomfortable at first because you're a people pleaser. Even if people don't want to be in your
48:47life anymore because you're being authentic to who you are. For me, that was leaving a very high
48:52demand religion where it disappointed a lot of people when I chose to leave and it hurt them.
49:00But in the end, it was the best thing that I could have done for me and for my family.
49:05And I just hope through sharing my story that if anybody's going through anything in life,
49:13whether it's leaving a high demand religion or a cult or, and maybe they need the strength to leave,
49:20that this gives them hope that like it gets better and you will find your community and your people
49:26that love you. And even if you're living a toxic marriage or toxic relationship, that it's worth it
49:34to leave, get up, get the out and leave because you deserve to live the life that you want to
49:43live.
49:43And I truly believe that authenticity and mental health are so deeply connected. And I don't think
49:54I've ever heard anyone talk about that. But if you're not being authentic to who you are, you're not
49:59going to be happy. And that is going to put a toll on you mentally. And also in that, from
50:06losing my
50:06brother who was 14 to suicide, we need to be having these conversations with our children.
50:13Our children need to know that they are loved the way that they are, that they can be authentically
50:19themselves. And they also need to know that they can come to you if they're struggling and that it's
50:25okay to not be okay. And I think that honestly, that's the leading cause of suicide is not talking
50:33about it. And the biggest reason why there's a stigma to mental health is not talking about it
50:38because everybody has struggles in their life. And if our children know that anytime they are having
50:44a struggle, oh, I'm having a struggle, but it's okay. And it will get better. And I can tell my
50:50mom
50:51and dad, I can tell people that I trust that I'm struggling and I don't have to keep this bottled
50:57up
50:57inside. And I just think that, I don't know, authenticity, mental health come hand in hand.
51:05And I don't know, you need to live your life the way that you want to. And if that's leaving
51:11a high
51:11demand religion, if that's leaving a toxic relationship, do it. It's hard at first,
51:16but then it's easier. It's harder to stay. Yeah. Honestly.
51:20You're so right. And it's so beautifully said. And I think that could happen at any age. Like your mom
51:25just left the church herself. I'm sure it was terrifying for her. Yeah. And you're never too
51:31old. It's never too late to start over. Exactly. Very good point. And get the life you want.
51:36Yeah. Even if it's a little bit, because that little bit might be the best time of your life
51:43and better than. It will still be worth it. It will be. It's never too late. Do you have any
51:47faith
51:47now? Like, do you have a different faith or any faith? I think that I'm still maybe
51:54on my journey. Like, I wouldn't say that I'm, like, religious. Like, I'm not tied to a certain
51:59religion. But I am very spiritual. And I also just believe in being a good person and doing good.
52:10Mm-hmm. And I think that, like, I still struggle a little bit with religion at all in general because
52:17of where I came from. So I just really cling to being a good person and teaching my kids to
52:25be
52:25good people. And I think that matters more than anything, honestly.
52:31For someone in polygamy, I would think a lot of that has its own identity in a way. Because you
52:36were
52:36young and you left the church, do you think, like, you had to get rid of the identity of polygamy?
52:43Because growing up in a small town, I imagine a lot of people knew that you came from a polygamous
52:48family. Like, did that bother you that that was an identity that followed you places?
52:53Oh, yeah. I hated it.
52:55Yeah.
52:56I, which is so funny because now I talk about it and I have no shame about it. And maybe
53:00that's why I
53:01talk about it and don't have shame about it. Because my mindset has shifted. I used to be
53:06so embarrassed that I came from a polygamous family. And I hated that people would say
53:12stuff. And now I'm like, yeah, I grew up in a polygamous family. So what? I didn't choose
53:17that. And you know what? It's a good story to tell.
53:22Do you ever get scared that you left the church?
53:24I think I used to. What do you mean by scared?
53:27I don't know. I just, and I don't know what's really real or fiction, like, from what people
53:33say, but you hear, like, oh, it's dangerous to leave.
53:36So many different things.
53:36Yeah. You just hear stories.
53:38I think because FLDS, I do think it's more dangerous to leave FLDS. And that's the Warren
53:42Jeffs.
53:43Got it.
53:43Keep sweet, pray, and obey. Even though we didn't grow up in that specific polygamy,
53:48I was always taught to just keep sweet, pray, and obey. Do what you're told.
53:54Crazy.
53:54But I always had that little bit of fire in me, you know?
53:56Yeah. Thank God. What do you feel you're the most proud of, of accomplishing in your
54:02life at this moment?
54:03I don't know. I guess maybe it sounds dumb because we're already talking about this,
54:06but just, like, being the mom that I am to my babies.
54:11Yeah.
54:11Like, it'll get me emotional every time.
54:13No, you're such a good mom.
54:15Because, yeah, sorry.
54:17No, don't be sorry. You're such a good mom. You really are.
54:23I try my best. And, you know, anytime that I do something wrong, I'm always, like,
54:28whether I yell at them, I lose my temper. I'm like, that is not your fault. I was having a
54:34hard time with my emotions. And that's not on you. That's on me. And even, like, just little
54:39things like that that I was never told as a kid, like, that I don't have to carry other people's
54:44emotions and that that's on them. If they lose their s*** or they have their issues, it's not on
54:51you to carry. And I feel like I always had to carry so much as a kid and always walking
54:56on
54:56eggshells. And I am just thankful that despite everything that I've been through and not having
55:03a good parent role to look at, I have been able to just be a mom that I always dreamed
55:11of. And I
55:12just, I love being a mom. And that's probably the most, the thing that I'm most passionate about
55:17is motherhood and giving my kids the best life that they can ever have.
55:22Well, I think it's really, really beautiful that exactly what you said, you didn't have a good role
55:27model to look towards, but you do a really damn good job, it seems. And even things like that,
55:34the way that you're able to communicate with your kids, like, if you know, I've done that to mine,
55:38I've, like, snapped. I'm like, I'm so sorry. And I'll explain. And then my kids are like,
55:44I think that goes a long ways, though, because I don't believe that our kids need perfect parents.
55:49I didn't need perfect parents. I just needed the repair, the repair of this shouldn't have happened.
55:57And I'm sorry, the conversations, conversations with your kids and helping them understand things,
56:03I just think goes a very, very long ways. And I hope that it does for my kids. I can
56:08hope that,
56:09you know, and I'm sure that they'll have their issues, whatever, when they get older. But I just
56:14hope that they just never have to question my love for them.
56:19No, I don't. I don't think they could. I really don't. Last question. How do you think you
56:26maintain so much grace and forgiveness for the ones that maybe weren't so great to you?
56:32I don't know. At first, I didn't know if I could. I feel like, in a way, it's like a
56:38grief. And the
56:40older I got, the more of the grief of it that I felt. The realization of what the love that
56:48I lacked
56:49and the parent bonds that I lacked and all those things. I don't know. I guess I just do not
56:57want
56:58to live my life bitter. And maybe that's what it is. I came to a realization one day, maybe,
57:05maybe it was slowly, that I don't want to live a bitter life. And bad things happen all the time.
57:13And at the end of the day, we get to choose, is this going to destroy me? Or is this
57:20going to make
57:21me a better person? Is this going to make me into who I want to be? I think you're so
57:27self-aware
57:29and so aware, like, yes, I wish my mom did certain things, but you also understand how she was raised.
57:35And it's, you know, a domino effect that way. And even your dad, you're like, no, I don't want the
57:40relationship. But that's, you're not trashing anyone. You're like, yeah, no, it's just.
57:44And that's the thing about me, like, I'll be honest. Yeah. I'll be, I'll be honest, but I try
57:50to be, you know, respectful about it. You are. And so if anyone has something to say,
57:55I think that's their own problem. And I mean, I guess, like, you saying, like, I share my story
58:01to help people. And that's exactly it is I, I learned after losing my brother that your story
58:09matters. Your story is your life and it matters. And you get to choose to keep on going. You get
58:17to choose how to write your story. And sometimes things will pop up in your story that are harder
58:22that you didn't choose. But at the end of the day, you still get to choose your story because
58:26you get to choose if you are going to grow from it or let it destroy you. And it's your
58:33story.
58:33You get to choose your story.
58:35A hundred percent. Well, I'm so proud of you. I don't want that to sound condescending. I
58:40really, really am.
58:41No, it doesn't. Thank you. I appreciate that.
58:42Yeah. Because I can't imagine how much personal work it's taken. And you just seem still so full
58:50of light. And what a beautiful thing that no one else can take that from you.
58:54Yeah. Thank you for coming here.
58:56I really appreciate that. Thank you for having me.
Comments