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Evil Lives Here - Season 19 - Episode 01: Fostering Evil
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00:00So, Megan, we would like to show you some clips.
00:05Some of them might be difficult.
00:07Is that OK?
00:07Yes.
00:27I don't want to hear that.
00:30I don't want to hear the 911 call.
00:33And my mom screaming for her life.
00:59What is going on?
01:10I thought of Sabrina as a big sister.
01:15And what she did, what goes through my mind, what I think about her now, she's a cold-blooded killer
01:21that thought she would get away with murder.
01:37I turned on the TV on the news as soon as I turned it on.
01:41There was a picture of Lisa, a picture of Sabrina, and it said, foster mother murdered by foster child.
01:53It was shocking.
01:54It was just unbelievable.
01:55I didn't want to believe it.
01:56And that's where I grabbed my phone and called Kevin.
02:00Because at that time, I never thought he had anything to do with it.
02:08But then when you see him sitting in the courtroom when all this was going down, he just had no
02:13reactions to anything.
02:14And for someone to have no reactions whatsoever, never to show any sort of remorse about the death of your
02:21wife and what actually happened.
02:23And it's just, if I had to choose the one word, it'd be soulless.
03:17I remember this picture.
03:19This was actually, this was the day after, sorry, this was the day after my wedding day.
03:32Kevin was one of the first people there and spent pretty much the entire day with me.
03:38And just, it was wonderful just having him there as a support and as my brother.
03:45Kevin and I both worked for a private ambulance company as partners working 24 hour shifts and we got very
03:53close.
03:54He had this, this wonderfulness that just drew people to him.
04:02He had, he was very open, outgoing, easy to get along with.
04:08It wasn't even like he really had to do anything.
04:11We just meshed and it just was like, he just became, he became my older brother.
04:17I mean, I, I looked up to the guy.
04:25It's a, it's a tough one to see because it's, I miss him.
04:47Right off the bat, he knew this was going to be the one.
04:50This is the girl that he wanted to marry.
04:52I mean, it was just nice seeing him finally find somebody that made him happy.
04:59Their wedding was wonderful.
05:01And he just embraced her daughter, Megan, like it was his own daughter.
05:07And they were to that point with all the love that they had, they were able to have their own
05:12child together.
05:13And then it just became like one big happy family.
05:22Eventually Lisa had introduced the idea to Kevin about them taking in foster children.
05:30And Kevin was all for it.
05:32They wanted to be able to bring these kids in to give them someplace safe to be.
05:38Kevin said they were looking at fostering a new child, said her name was Sabrina, said she was older, teenage.
05:52I wish I would have seen signs of problems earlier and I could have addressed the signs earlier, but nothing
06:02I can actually do about it.
06:05It's all in the past.
06:30This is a picture of my mom wedding dress shopping.
06:36It was exciting to go shopping with her and for me to be there with her to pick out her
06:44wedding dress.
06:47When my mom introduced me to Kevin when I was five, seemed like a nice guy.
06:52I was happy that she met someone. So, yeah.
06:58When Kevin and my mom first got married, it was the honeymoon phase for a while. Everything was good.
07:04She finally found someone she's gonna spend the rest of her life with.
07:10And I was a flower girl in the wedding.
07:12I was excited. I was very excited.
07:16My childhood was amazing. I was the happiest kid spending it with my mom every day.
07:29She was my best friend. Kevin and my mom were affectionate.
07:33It was a picture-perfect family that got destroyed very quickly.
07:57This photo is of me and Sabrina hugging.
08:04We were always doing each other's hair like sister stuff.
08:10We would hang out a lot, do stuff together.
08:16Sabrina told me that she was happy to finally have a loving family and a home to be in.
08:23I called Sabrina Bree. I was excited because it was like I would have an older sister that I never
08:31had.
08:31My mom made her feel very welcome. Everyone was happy.
08:35And now all the good stuff is gone.
08:41I can't stand looking at photos of her.
08:45I can't stand hearing her name, anything about her.
08:49Can't stand it.
09:04Sabrina and my mom started to have a lot of tension.
09:08One day there was an incident with an iPad. Bree had the iPad and I wanted it.
09:14And my mom went up there to get it from her.
09:17And then Bree said that my mom hit her.
09:20My mom never laid hands on her. I was standing right there.
09:25She called the cops. Cops show up.
09:27I would never put my hands on any child.
09:30They asked if my mom hit her and my mom said no. I said no.
09:37And then they left. But after they left, Kevin put his arm around her, which I thought was really weird.
09:49That wasn't just comforting your kid.
09:52It was at the point where Kevin would stick up for Bree no matter what and not my mom.
09:58So it was always my mom's fault.
10:01And my mom felt like Kevin never had her back anymore.
10:05It would make my mom feel unsettled. Like, why are you taking her side when I'm your wife?
10:25There was one incident where my mom and I were gone for several hours.
10:31We came back. She was with Kevin alone in a sports bra.
10:40I thought it was very odd. And so did my mom.
10:45My mom thought it was odd because you shouldn't be in a sports bra around your father figure.
10:53And Kevin stuck up for her. And my mom told Kevin, I think it's time for Bree to go.
11:03Kevin didn't like that.
11:06I agreed with my mom. She needed to go.
11:09She was causing more problems than good.
11:13It didn't sit well with Kevin or Bree, obviously.
11:18Never in a million years did I think that what happened would happen.
11:33Kevin reached out and asked if we wanted to join him and Lisa at their campsite.
11:40Myself, my wife, and our three kids.
11:46And it was wonderful. All the kids were having a blast and just getting to play and interact with each
11:51other.
11:52But Kevin and Lisa on that trip didn't seem their usual fun-loving selves.
12:00There seemed to be something off between them.
12:05Kevin and I went off on our own.
12:07And I think I had said something in regards to, like, is everything okay?
12:12Is there something going on?
12:13And he said, well, he goes, I gotta tell you, he goes,
12:15Lisa has stated to me that she feels that there is something inappropriate going on between myself and Sabrina.
12:24Lisa thought that he was pretty much having an affair with Sabrina behind her back.
12:33And I pretty much, like, laughed at him.
12:36I'm like, yeah, right.
12:36I'm like, why is she even thinking something like that?
12:39And I even asked him if he wanted me to go and say something to Lisa to reassure her that
12:46there was nothing going on between him.
12:48And he just asked me to, just to let it go, keep it between us for now, because he didn't
12:53want it to create any other, any additional issues or make it uncomfortable during the rest of the trip.
13:02So it was just one of those, I just let it go at that point and it wasn't brought up
13:08again while we were out on the trip.
13:27Later on in that evening, Kevin and I were outside building a fire, getting things ready for the kids to
13:32roast in marshmallows and stuff.
13:33And Kevin pulled up the waistband of his underwear and he told me, he said, Sabrina got me these underwear.
13:42She said that somebody told her that they were comfortable.
13:47I found it weird and I was like dumbfounded.
13:51A foster child wanting to buy or any child wanting to buy their dad or foster parent a gift that
13:59intimate.
14:01I didn't know totally how to respond to it.
14:03So I just let it go and didn't really think much more about it at that point in time.
14:18It was next morning.
14:20Kevin and I were up and we were preparing breakfast for everybody.
14:25And Kevin, he goes, let me show you these.
14:26He goes, one of the things Sabrina said she wanted to start doing was she wanted to start modeling.
14:32He goes, so I started taking some pictures of her to get her like headshots and pictures for modeling.
14:39And he pulled up his phone and started flipping through pictures of Sabrina.
14:45It was weird to see these types of pictures almost like had like a, with her being so young, but
14:51almost like a seductive sort of poses and stuff.
14:55It caught me off guard.
14:56I'm thinking this is just, it's just weird.
15:00But I'm like, maybe this isn't anything big.
15:03Maybe it's nothing to be concerned about.
15:06He was wonderful with children, always wanted to make kids happy.
15:11And up until that point, I never saw anything that I thought was irregular or out of the ordinary with
15:18him.
15:21And it was just one of those that I pushed to the back of my head and just tried to
15:26move on to something else and forget about it at the time.
15:33I see all the moments totally different now after what has happened.
15:38I mean, all it is, is I think about everything and I go back to that trip all the time
15:44because I know it's nothing that I did.
15:49But I keep myself up daily and I don't talk about it with people that I should have looked at
15:59things differently when he was telling me that.
16:15So before Kevin left for work the night of the 15th, Bree and Kevin were whispering to each other.
16:26It was very odd, but we didn't know what they were saying to each other.
16:32I went to sleep around nine.
16:37Bree's room was right next to mine.
16:40Her phone was blowing up.
16:43Text message after text message.
16:45And I could hear her receiving the text message.
16:51I went in her room and asked her what's going on.
16:54And she said nothing.
16:58I never heard her phone go off like that before.
17:02There were so many text messages it woke me up.
17:05But I didn't think anything of it.
17:08And then I went to sleep.
17:18The morning of November 16th, I heard the dog barking loud in my mom's screen.
17:34So I run downstairs, walk in my mom's room, see things knocked over, and Bree stabbing my mom to death.
17:50I tried to get her to stop, but then she threatened to stab me.
17:58Her face seemed very angry and determined to get the job done.
18:08So, I backed off.
18:11And I called 911.
18:13Are you coming in?
18:15Are you coming in?
18:15Are you coming in?
18:15Are you coming in?
18:16Are you coming in?
18:18Where's your sister at?
18:20Where's your sister?
18:21Knock it off!
18:22Where is your sister?
18:24Quick, quick, quick!
18:25I got everyone coming to you, honey.
18:28Please help!
18:29Please help!
18:46This is a photo of the front of the house in Willoughby Hills.
18:54Every time I see a picture of the house, it reminds me of the morning my mom died.
19:03Flashbacks.
19:08Willoughby Hills, please show up.
19:11I ran outside, telling them to hurry up.
19:19My feet were covered in blood as I ran down the driveway.
19:24They pointed a gun at me because they thought it was me.
19:27I yelled, it's not me.
19:29She's inside.
19:31Sabrina stabbed my mom 178 times.
19:37I knew it was bad, and my mom wasn't going to come out of it alive.
19:41I knew that.
19:42I knew that.
20:00Me, Kevin, and my dad were in a room, and they said my mom passed away.
20:08Kevin showed no emotion whatsoever.
20:12No crying, no saying anything, just blank.
20:19And asking where it was Breed, and trying to see her.
20:24Which people thought was very odd, very weird.
20:30This person just killed your wife.
20:32Why are you going to see her?
20:36Trying to see her.
20:54He kept talking about Sabrina, saying he just wanted to make sure she was okay.
20:59Yeah, I'm like, that's weird that you want to see her, Kevin.
21:02This is the girl that just killed your wife, and why are you so concerned about how she is?
21:10I'm starting to see stuff that doesn't seem to be right.
21:14He told the officer who he was, and told him that he was there to see Sabrina Zunich.
21:23The officers advised him at that time that she had no visitation time left.
21:28Kevin got upset, got a little loud, got a little angry, said he needed to see her.
21:34I had to pretty much pull him back and settle him down,
21:38because I was worried he was going to get arrested for acting out in a place like this,
21:42and yelling and having a fit.
21:45So, I got him to settle down.
21:48He then said, okay, can you give her this message?
21:53He took a piece of paper out that was folded up.
21:56He slid it to the officer.
21:58The officer took the note, said, no, we cannot give this to her.
22:02We're not allowed to give any notes or anything to her.
22:05And he goes, I can't do this, and he passed it back to Kevin.
22:09And then we left.
22:15Right there in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, that's not going to look good with anybody.
22:22Right there.
22:44Whew.
22:52These are pictures of Kevin and Lisa's room where the murder took place after the murder took place.
23:13Those are pictures that I don't need to look at because I see them every day in my head, from
23:18when I walked into that room and saw that.
23:24Oh, wow.
23:29All I see in those pictures, when I look at those pictures, are what Lisa went through, the suffering she
23:42had to have went through, the pain to wake up and have somebody on top of you, stabbing you.
23:49And then I remember blood all over the mattress. It was all over the floors in those pictures.
24:01I have to remember that from then.
24:07That is horrific, something I'm never going to forget.
24:13I've seen things like this on TV shows, but to walk in and to actually see this was just, it
24:23was unreal.
24:24You start thinking, like, how could this have happened?
24:46What do you recall?
24:50Yesterday?
24:52Would anything unusual happen?
24:56I don't know.
25:03Remember when you came to the house, you had the knife in your hand.
25:06Are you sure it wasn't self-defense?
25:08Yeah.
25:12I don't remember.
25:15I had two police officers there to saw you with the knife and ordered you to drop it.
25:21Did I?
25:24She doesn't remember anything.
25:31That could be.
25:33But she knew what she was doing.
25:35Does it make you angry?
25:36To see her and hear her try and say, oh, are you sure it wasn't self-defense?
25:42I'm an idiot.
25:44That's what I think.
25:46Because it wasn't.
25:47And I know that.
25:48My mom was fighting for her life.
25:51Do you recall coming out of the bedroom with a knife in your hand?
25:56No.
25:58But you had a knife.
26:01It's deadly so.
26:05I missed it.
26:07And then Megan called the police.
26:11That can't be true.
26:13Bree, it is.
26:14I'm sorry.
26:19I've never been a murderer.
26:25There's no way she didn't know what she was doing.
26:28Sabrina for the longest time said it was just like everything went blank and she just went in there and
26:33she went into this rage and started doing this.
26:35But then they found out later that their youngest daughter was in that room.
26:40And then ended up being in the closet.
26:43So Sabrina had to have gone in there, taken the youngest daughter and placed her in the closet first and
26:50then go back and do what she did.
26:51That's not somebody that blacks out and doesn't remember exactly what they're doing.
27:07There were over 900 people at my mom's funeral and they were hugging me.
27:11Half the people I didn't even know.
27:13The fact that my mom had an impact on that many people made me happy.
27:22Kevin's demeanor at the funeral, no emotion, none.
27:26I remember sitting next to a family friend in the front and Kevin getting up to speak and saying pray
27:40for Sabrina.
27:42Which was really odd.
27:45Everyone raised their eyebrow about that one.
27:48She just killed your wife.
27:54I was informed by some people that were directly involved with the case and everything that Kevin, that morning, he
28:05had already contacted Lisa's job and was inquiring in regards to her life insurance policies that she had and survivor
28:15benefits.
28:18It's like, who does that kind of thing?
28:21I don't think I could have comprehended to do anything like that.
28:23That would not have been a first call.
28:26And that, when you hear that, it's like, why?
28:32And then I found out that there was an investigation by the high school in regards to noted inappropriate behavior
28:41between him and Sabrina when he would come pick Sabrina up from school.
28:45At that point, I knew the detectives were actually looking into him.
28:51So I decided to go to the Willoughby Hills Police Department myself and speak to one of the detectives on
28:59the case.
29:08We're you and Lisa in the process of going through a divorce.
29:12Okay, now we're getting outside the scope.
29:15Are you going to talk to us about the situation that led up to what happened?
29:20I talked to Detective Promoter and said he wanted to get interviewed him about work, which, you know, I thought
29:25was probably a pretext.
29:27Okay.
29:27But, you know, everybody knows where she worked.
29:30Well, we never get to talk at length about...
29:34We're just sort of a sequence of events of what happened, right?
29:36That's what we're just trying to talk about.
29:38His wife was probably murdered here.
29:40And we're trying to help him, you know, help us.
29:43He can help us in the investigation.
29:46But, you know, we're not going to get into, you know, the relationship between Kevin and Lisa.
29:51It's just, you got, you got a...
29:54You got a bloody girl with a bloody knife.
29:58You know what, I apologize for wasting your time then, because...
30:01Well, how about your relationship with any of the other children in the household?
30:05I mean, how about your relationship with Sabrina?
30:08No.
30:10Kevin?
30:11No.
30:15In this video, it was the same lack of expression that it's been all along.
30:22No emotion, straight face.
30:23He didn't say a word.
30:31The fact that you showed up to the police station with a lawyer in the first place?
30:36That's a red flag in itself.
30:38He has done something.
30:40But he's guilty.
30:42And we all know it.
30:52Yeah.
30:53Mm-hmm.
30:56This is a picture of the knife that Sabrina used to murder Lisa.
31:05Last time I saw a picture of this was at the court hearing.
31:14Still had Lisa's blood on it.
31:20And...
31:21And this is a serrated knife.
31:23And this...
31:26This just shows how horrible...
31:31The murder was.
31:33You have to put a lot of force behind using something like this.
31:41She stabbed so many times and so hard with it that it left a permanent bend in the knife,
31:48from stabbing so hard.
31:51That's just...
31:53I can't fathom how anybody would stab once or cut even once or twice with a knife like this.
32:01It's totally...
32:05Unreal and uncomprehensible.
32:07I just don't know why it could have gotten to that point where he felt he needed to help facilitate
32:15taking Lisa's life.
32:19I never saw any problems between him and there.
32:22It was just hard for me to believe that he would actually do something like that.
32:28He needed Sabrina to do this.
32:30And his way to get her to agree with it was to paint a pretty picture about...
32:38We can live happily ever after.
32:40If we get Lisa out of the picture, if we do this, we're gonna get all this money.
32:45Told her how much money it was gonna be.
32:48And then we can have our own little family.
32:50And she believed that at the time and decided to go along with it.
32:55I don't think there was any intention that he was gonna follow through on all that.
33:01It was just soulless for him to plan that and to come up with this kind of idea of something
33:06to do,
33:06thinking that was the only way out of it.
33:31This is the picture of me that reminds me that I testified against...
33:37my brother.
33:39It's a picture of me that reminds me that I helped get him put away for life.
33:49I know I did the right thing, but I can't get over the feeling like that I betrayed him.
34:09What we believe, from conversations both with your attorneys and also from our review of the case,
34:15is that what led up to this homicide, to this murder, is that there was another party involved in planning
34:22that.
34:22Yes.
34:23It was Kevin Knathel, my foster father.
34:26So, what's made you decide to tell us about Kevin?
34:31Because, for some reason, I'm religious and the truth prevails.
34:36And, for me to go down for this, when I was the only one involved, it didn't seem right.
34:45And, when you start thinking with your head and not your heart, you realize if somebody loved you,
34:51they wouldn't let you go down like that.
34:54That was completely manipulated.
34:57Wow.
34:58I do believe that Kevin manipulated Brie into killing my mom, but she was dumb enough to fall for it.
35:07Do you believe she's remorseful?
35:12No.
35:13I do not believe she's remorseful.
35:16It's just an act.
35:18No.
35:19It's all fake.
35:21She decided to speak at Kevin's trial because they told her if she spoke and told the truth, she would
35:27get a lighter sentence.
35:29Coming forward and telling everyone what Kevin manipulated her into doing.
35:36I give her a lot of credit for that.
35:38I do.
35:39But, at the end of the day, she was the one that killed my mom.
35:50It was Kevin's idea, and it was talked about after we were having sexual relations.
36:00And, him and Lisa were having problems in marriage.
36:04When does he start talking to you about divorce?
36:08It was three months before, after he brought up,
36:13well, look, I'm going to kill myself if she doesn't leave because I can't deal with this anymore.
36:19When he said that, it kind of triggered me.
36:21I was like, no, I don't want that to happen.
36:24And so, I was like, okay, I'll do it.
36:31In a way, you start feeling bad that she got manipulated into this and taken advantage of for something like
36:36this.
36:37I never heard these clips before with Sabrina telling her side.
36:42This is the first time that I ever heard he said it was either Lisa or he was going to
36:48take his own life.
36:49And then, knowing two weeks before that happened, me and my family were with him.
36:56When we were out there and all the time he talked with me, he didn't say anything,
37:00because he probably knew I would have stopped him then if something like that was said.
37:04But maybe I could have helped point him in a different direction with something.
37:07And none of this could have happened.
37:28This is a picture of Sabrina.
37:37This, yeah, it's the girl that I knew.
37:45This is the girl that I let hang out with my children.
37:49And it's just, it's just seeing this, it's just hard to believe that she could have done something so horrible
37:57and murdering, murdering Lisa.
38:01Lisa, I just don't, I don't know, I just don't.
38:08I just can't, I can't. Look at this picture.
38:10It bothers me too much. I'm sorry. I can't.
38:16And at the same time too, I'm upset that Sabrina had to deal with all this.
38:22She had a rough life, what it was.
38:23Yes, what she did is not right. I don't condone it in the least bit.
38:27I'm not saying she was right in any measure.
38:29What she did was horrible and was heinous.
38:32But I feel bad for her because she got caught up in this.
38:41And no kid should have to go through that.
38:44And she's paying a consequence for that because she made the wrong decision from what Kevin had dragged her through.
38:51So yes, she was wrong for what she did, but I still feel bad for her from it.
38:57And then you just feel bad for Megan and you feel bad for the youngest daughter.
39:02And you feel horrible for Lisa having to go through that.
39:16This is a photo of Kevin.
39:21As you can, as I can see, no emotion.
39:27Like usual.
39:29Nothing.
39:32I truly believe that Kevin thought he was going to get away with this.
39:36Yes.
39:38He thought he'd never get caught.
39:42I don't think Kevin should ever get out of prison and he needs to spend the rest of his life
39:48in prison.
39:49He deserves it and that's where he belongs.
39:54He left me and my sister with nothing.
39:56No mom.
39:57No money.
39:59He stole everything from us.
40:06He can rot in hell for all I care.
40:15Sabrina and Kevin are evil because they took away a mother.
40:21Someone who was making a difference in the world.
40:26loved being with their kids, spending time with them.
40:32That will never be forgiven.
40:36My mental health really took a toll on this.
40:40I have flashbacks to that morning pretty frequently.
40:45To this day, I trust very little people.
40:48Because you never know what someone is capable of.
40:53My life today has its ups and downs.
40:57For a while, I struggled with my mental health, anxiety, depression, stuff like that.
41:03And I still deal with it, but it's not as bad as it once was.
41:08I wish I could have saved my mom and done more.
41:13She was the most amazing person anyone would have met.
41:19She would do anything for anyone.
41:22She loved her kids.
41:24She was an amazing mom, an amazing social worker.
41:27She was my best friend.
41:29And I will never stop telling her story.
41:37She was a следующий question for eight weeks.
41:37She could hear her?
41:38Ever we couldn't do anything.
41:38She's an amazing student, we really wanted to put a friend here.
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