- 47 minutes ago
Unsure what to charge for your services? You're not alone. Ilana Golan struggled with that too, until she developed a framework she now teaches to others through her Leap Academy.
On this episode, Ilana helps you set your rates and get what you deserve.
On this episode, Ilana helps you set your rates and get what you deserve.
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NewsTranscript
00:00The truth is, the dollar amount, people will pay you what you believe you're worth.
00:04You know the value of the results that you are going to deliver.
00:10Running a business means solving problems. I tell you how the smartest entrepreneurs do it.
00:16Hi, I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, and this is Problem Solvers.
00:24Let me tell you something I always doubt about myself. This is true.
00:29I feel like I deliver a lot of value. I know that if someone wants to work with me, I
00:34will show up.
00:35I'll do a great job. They will leave feeling better and more knowledgeable and more set up for success than
00:40before.
00:40I have absolutely no idea what I'm supposed to charge them. No, none.
00:45I'm just sort of trying to calibrate it in real time.
00:49What if I say a large number, and then they say no, and then I run away screaming,
00:52and then the next time I charge somebody way too little, and they say yes way too fast,
00:56and then I feel like, oh my God, I'm getting ripped off. I just don't know how to do this.
01:00And I feel like so many people are just like me. I've heard it all the time.
01:05What am I supposed to charge for my services?
01:08Today, we are answering that question with someone who helps people figure out the answer daily.
01:15Her name is Ilana Golan. She is the CEO and founder of Leap Academy.
01:20Ilana, give us some background here on how you are the person to answer this question,
01:24and welcome to Problem Solvers.
01:26Ah, Jason, this is so, so, so fun.
01:29And yes, I am here for free, and you also came to my podcast, and I love that.
01:34And I love collaborating with really smart people, and I've been following your journey for so long.
01:40So thank you for having me, first of all, on the show.
01:42And for those listening, you described it so, so well because you described my life.
01:46I was probably the person that negotiated the worst salary ever in Silicon Valley history,
01:52and I went up the ranks in different companies.
01:56I started actually in the Air Force, kind of moved up the ranks to engineering and technical sales
02:01and product management, all the way to vice president.
02:04And at some point, we don't have to go into that, but I kind of lost almost everything I had
02:10in my life.
02:12And I lost my job, I lost my company, I was kicked out of my own startup,
02:17and Jason, this is where I needed to figure out on my own, like, what do I do?
02:21I was lost, like, I was giving everyone everything for free all the time.
02:27And at some point, I still remember the day that we, you know, came up and, you know,
02:32we sat and did our taxes, and I was flying all day, like all night, like all the time.
02:37We were doing our taxes, and it was like, how much did you make?
02:41I brought nothing home.
02:43And the truth is, Jason, it wasn't zero.
02:46It was actually, like, if you really think about it, I didn't take a salary, right?
02:49So it's like minus whatever, $200,000.
02:52And anyway, and there's a bigger story there because it wasn't actually minus $200,000.
03:01In fact, I didn't take, like, I helped a company, they're now valued at $14 billion,
03:09and that tiny, tiny equity would have been $30 million.
03:14So if you think about it, the cost of the university of not knowing was in the minus,
03:23you know, in the $30 million for me.
03:25So, yeah, and I bet, sorry to just jump in, but I also wanted to reinforce this.
03:29Like, I bet that, I actually used the word reinforce a little too early,
03:34but I will reinforce this idea of reinforcing, which is to say that you're telling this story
03:39in which you had undervalued or completely devalued yourself,
03:44even though you were delivering value to other people.
03:45And that continually reinforces to yourself that you don't have a monetary value, right?
03:53It's like the more in which you put yourself out in the world at a low value,
03:57the more in which you are afraid to ever raise that value.
04:01That is something I at least felt very significantly at the very beginning of this,
04:05where I would do talks for free, and people would be happy for me to be there.
04:12But then I would think, well, you know, now that I'm doing it for free, I can't charge them.
04:17They would find that completely obnoxious that I would charge them.
04:20Or I would charge them just a tiny bit because I felt like, well, you know, I'm not good enough
04:27to be the person that gets paid a lot.
04:29It becomes this story that you're telling yourself over and over again
04:33that actually holds you down from telling a different story.
04:37And what I'll say into that, Jason, because this is spot on,
04:40what most people go through, what I went through.
04:43And in fact, what we're actually don't realizing is that we're actually doing a disservice
04:50for not charging.
04:51So when you're actually thinking that you're giving value for giving things for free,
04:57think about how many, I don't know, self-help book you have, you know, on your shelf,
05:01and you don't even open them because they were either free or $9.99 or whatever they were.
05:07You don't open them.
05:09Why?
05:10I actually, it was actually amazing.
05:12Like there was a book that I had on my shelf for since 2017.
05:18And last year, I went to this big event.
05:21It was somebody I've been following for a long time.
05:23I paid $50,000 for his course, Jason.
05:27And guess what?
05:29I took action and my entire team took action.
05:32Why?
05:32It was the same information that was on my desk for seven years.
05:36So when people pay, they pay attention.
05:39And once you understand that you actually have the ability, and I can give you actually
05:45a framework that everybody can follow.
05:47But if you understand, first of all, just in your mind that you have the ability to change
05:52people's perception, their life, their careers, their health, their whatever, you have an ability
05:58to create transformation, that is worth a lot.
06:02Yeah.
06:03Like for some people, this is everything.
06:05So by not charging, you're actually taking something away from them because they will
06:10not take you seriously.
06:11Right.
06:12So, okay.
06:12I'd like to hear that framework because I want to acknowledge that there's probably
06:17many people listening who relate to what we're saying so far, but also many who don't because
06:22they're like, look, I'm not giving something away for free.
06:24I understand that I am very valuable.
06:27I'm just not exactly sure what to charge.
06:29This is where I think many people are, is that they understand that they have value.
06:33They're not afraid of charging unless they're at the very beginning.
06:35They just don't know exactly how to pick that number.
06:40So help us pick that number.
06:43So first of all, we'll do a little exercise and a little framework that I think will really,
06:48really help everybody listening.
06:50But I'm also just going to say it's okay to not, like when you are just getting started,
06:56it's okay to charge less so that you can build the evidence and stack on the evidence
07:01and bring yourself more success stories, et cetera.
07:04It's okay.
07:04That's how everybody starts.
07:06And the way I like to look at it is like literally frame it like I hope whatever audience, right?
07:13In my case, driven professionals or teams, what do you help them do, right?
07:18In my case, reinvent, leap their careers.
07:20What do you help them do, right?
07:22And then so that, what is the value that you're giving, right?
07:25In my case, so that they get the pay, the reputation, the income, the value, you know,
07:29like the freedom that they want.
07:31So what are you helping them do?
07:32So first of all, just write it down.
07:34Then what I like to do is actually draw almost like a little rainbow.
07:38So it's like two clouds and like four to six steps like of a rainbow in between.
07:44And the first cloud is the pain.
07:49And where...
07:51Like your consumer's pain point.
07:52Yeah, the customer pain point.
07:54And I want you to really think about not the high level pain point, but what is actually
08:00going on in the middle of the night when they're looking in the mirror, when they're hard on
08:04themselves.
08:04Like what is actually going on?
08:06Because on one hand for...
08:08I'll give you an example for me, and I'm sure you're seeing this, like for driven professionals,
08:13initially they'll say, oh, it's not that bad.
08:15I, you know, I'm just looking for a job or I'm just, you know, I just want more out of
08:19my career, right?
08:20But at three in the morning, what went through my head is how on earth did I become such
08:25a failure?
08:25How on earth can I not figure this out?
08:29Why on earth am I not further along in my career?
08:32You're talking about the difference between the external problem and the internal problem,
08:36right?
08:36The external problem is the surface level, got to get this solved.
08:41And that exists in every market.
08:44If you are painting houses, then the external problem that you solve is that the house needs
08:50a paint job.
08:52But the internal problem is the thing that is underneath it, the thing that is driving
08:59emotional distress in your consumer, which again, for the paint job thing could be, and
09:03this is, I'm stealing this anecdote from Donald Miller from building a story brand.
09:07I'm not coming up with this myself, but it's, it could be not feeling like that you're keeping
09:14up with the Joneses, right?
09:15Like that you have the ugliest house on the block, that you're falling behind your neighbors.
09:20That's perfect.
09:20So, and, and I absolutely agree because again, like you gave that beautiful example, it is
09:26the embarrassment.
09:27It is my kid is not bringing my, their friends to the house, right?
09:31Like the, the underlying pain point is much deeper than I need a, you know, to, you know,
09:37to, to, to paint the house, right?
09:40So you want to understand, and here's the kicker, Jason, when you describe somebody's pain better
09:45than they were able to describe it, you automatically become an authority, even if you're not an
09:50authority yet.
09:51So that, you know, once you understand that, first of all, so just knowing the real truth
09:55is really, really important.
09:57Then what you want to look at is kind of the dream, right?
10:00The other cloud is like the dream, right?
10:02Like where, where, what do they really want?
10:04Like you said, it's not, it's not just about, you know, you know, painting the house, but
10:09I want to feel like I'm, I'm the role model or I'm successful or I, you know, whatever.
10:15Like there's, I've got, I've got the house that everybody envies, for example, right?
10:20And the beautiful thing, and then the, the rainbow is really your framework.
10:25And that's where you become a category of one, right?
10:28What is your exact framework to move from the pain to the dream, right?
10:34It could be, if you're a consultant, you go to a company and you do a three 60 or whatever,
10:39I'm making this up or you're talking to, right?
10:41Like it could be, but that's your framework, right?
10:43In our case, like you get the clarity, you tell a better story, you build a brand, you
10:47learn to open doors.
10:48Like what, what is the exact framework?
10:51And, and really write that down because the beautiful thing is we'll talk about, we can
10:55talk about a conversation of how you actually price it, right?
10:58But the, the actual price is pretty simple.
11:02It's the distance between the pain and the dream.
11:04It's the distance in the pain and the dream is the price.
11:07So this is interesting because I would have thought that what you're describing here
11:13is about marketing and communications.
11:18And it's about being able to effectively communicate to your consumer, what value you have, but you're
11:25saying, no, this is actually an exercise in getting down to an actual dollar amount.
11:30Pretty much.
11:31Because again, the, the, the truth is the dollar amount, people will pay you what you believe
11:36you're worth.
11:37They might not be able to afford you.
11:39Don't get me wrong, but you dictate what you're, what you're, the answer is.
11:45But the answer is, and for you to be okay with the answer, the biggest price, the biggest
11:49problem with pricing is us.
11:52Like if I basically go on a call with a client or a lead and I basically say, okay, so
11:59tell
12:00me what is the biggest thing not working well enough in my case, your career, your home,
12:04your whatever, right?
12:05And they basically like, initially they don't tell everything and you start, and I go, oh,
12:11so tell me, what have you tried?
12:12Wow.
12:13So you've been out of work for, wow, a year.
12:16I mean, that, that must be hurting.
12:18I mean, that's what you already lost, like $200,000.
12:21That's painful.
12:22Like what, what is the event?
12:24What, what caused it to say now is I need to figure this out.
12:27What, what made this now more urgent than ever, right?
12:30And they start telling you the story, right?
12:34And the truth.
12:35And then, okay.
12:36So now with that in mind, how is that impacting everything?
12:39I mean, I'm sure for me, it impacted everything, Jason.
12:42Like I lost, like I was, you know, I didn't sleep at night.
12:46I was snappy at my kids.
12:47I was snappy at my husband.
12:49I was, my health deteriorated.
12:51I mean, it impacts everything, right?
12:53So now you go a little deeper into the magnitude of what actually is happening there.
12:58Right?
12:59And then, okay.
13:00So what is the dream?
13:01What are you trying to achieve?
13:03Amazing.
13:03So I'm a hundred percent confident we can take you there.
13:08This is how we do this.
13:09And when you explain how we do this, this is the rainbow.
13:12The first thing we do is, and you come with a lot of authority because it looks like, you
13:16know what you're doing because you do, right?
13:18Because if you would sit with somebody over coffee, you would know what to say.
13:22Now you just need to price it.
13:25So now I say, okay, great.
13:26So this is how we do this.
13:27First, we do this.
13:28Then we do second.
13:29Then we do, you know, your clarity and your brand and your whatever and open doors or
13:34whatever.
13:34And great.
13:35So the way we charge this is $10,000 or $5,000 or $15,000, whatever you want to charge
13:41for
13:41it.
13:41Because the truth is people that will create that transformation, it's going to be worth
13:45millions for them in a decade.
13:47Wait, wait, wait, wait.
13:48Okay, wait.
13:48But okay.
13:49I was, I was with you right up until you said whatever you want to charge for it.
13:53And the reason for that is because I see what you're doing here and the way in which you're
13:58taking this understanding of the consumer and then showing them exactly how you are going
14:05to help solve the external and internal problem that you're voicing.
14:10So they trust you.
14:11And all of that is actually an exercising in increasing your value perception.
14:18The more in which they trust you to solve this problem and the more in which you are able to
14:25identify how great their life is going to be or how much money they're going to make or whatever it
14:30is,
14:31the more in which they are willing to pay.
14:35But Ilana, there's still this issue of what can they afford and what kind of market you're serving.
14:42I'll give you an example.
14:43Well, outside of entrepreneur, I have a company called CPG Fast Track that I started with a
14:49couple of friends and we serve early stage consumer packaged goods founders.
14:53They come in, they're put in a small group.
14:56They get guidance and support from their peers, but also from experienced CPG leaders.
15:04We have been trying to figure out the price for this product since we launched two years ago
15:10because we're serving an early stage consumer that needs it, needs it.
15:15And we can talk to them about the external, the internal problem,
15:18and we could increase our value perception and all of that.
15:20They know it.
15:22They need it.
15:22But the problem is their cash strap because they are running a cash intensive business,
15:27often by themselves.
15:28They have no investors and they're looking at every dollar and they're trying to decide,
15:33does this dollar go to CPG Fast Track or does this dollar go to performance marketing?
15:38And so we have raised the price.
15:40We have lowered the price.
15:41We've tried to create like different tiers.
15:42We cannot figure out the price.
15:44So that is where, when I go back to you being like, you could charge $10,000, $50,000, charge
15:49whatever you want.
15:50I'm like, wait a second, but I can't charge whatever I want, Ilana, because I've got a
15:54constraint inside the market that I'm serving.
15:56So help me.
15:57I would question that constraint because I think that constraint has direct correlation.
16:03And again, sometimes we do, right?
16:05We're serving people that, I don't know, make $10 an hour and there's a real constraint
16:11there, right?
16:11You can't charge the same thing to, you know, you do need to understand your market.
16:17But I will also say that you need to understand what is the true ROI.
16:22And the most important piece is for you to be okay with ROI.
16:27Because I think the hardest thing for me was to start stacking up the evidence of, oh my
16:32God, these people are making five to six figure extra because of our help.
16:37Of course, this is worth it for them, even if they don't see it initially.
16:41To tell you that we don't have people that are freaking out and they're scared or whatever,
16:45of course they do, right?
16:46And we have different tiers and we have different pricing points.
16:49But at the end of the day, I know what they're getting at the other side.
16:53So first of all, I would say the very first thing is for us to be okay with the price.
16:58And I think that's where a lot of the hiccup usually comes.
17:02And then it's about showing the people with a ton of, again, integrity, but also with a
17:07ton of authority of what we can actually do for them.
17:10Because if I'm positive, and Jason, in your case, I am positive that they're going to be
17:15much better off with Jason than any of the lame, whatever, marketing, trying their luck.
17:20You know, I mean, other competitors, whatever, like they're going to pay somebody that will
17:25change the LinkedIn banner and will tell them this is going to change all your life, right?
17:29But you know exactly what it is.
17:31And anybody that has been following you knows that you have a different way of following
17:35than anybody else.
17:36So you clearly knows how to attract people your way.
17:40So for me, it's more about who should you put the money on?
17:44You're right.
17:44It's a good question.
17:46But for me, the question is, you know, I want you to make a decision and to say, how
17:51can I 2x or 10x or whatever it is, you know, how can I do that as fast as humanly
17:57possible?
17:58As you're saying all that, the thing that I really got caught on was being able to state
18:06the ROI.
18:08And over at CPG FastTrack, that's something that we've certainly struggled with is what
18:13is the exact ROI?
18:15We know there's lots of value, but can we put a number to it?
18:18And we haven't yet.
18:19And I think that we need to.
18:21We need to, through the case studies, we need to be able to say that members who invested
18:27this got this out of it.
18:29And I'd love to hear you talk through how to identify that ROI so that you can state
18:38it back to the consumer.
18:40Oh, such a good question.
18:41And first of all, I will say, and that's why when people are just getting started, honestly,
18:46don't worry about ROI initially.
18:48Like just start, even if it's like $1,000, $900, like just get something so that you can
18:55start creating evidence of what you can perform.
18:57And by the way, you're also going to learn a lot because LEAP looks very different when
19:01we started than when it is right now, right?
19:03So you're also going to learn a lot.
19:05You're going to see where people get stuck.
19:06So first of all, it's okay to not scale in the beginning.
19:09The way I would look at ROI, and maybe I'll give a few examples.
19:12Maybe it's the easiest way.
19:14So one, you talked about speaking.
19:15I think it's a fantastic example.
19:17So the very first thing is to really understand when are you saying, what should you say yes to
19:24and what should you say no to and with a lot of intentionality here?
19:28So for example, when I wanted to judge TechCrunch, you know, pitch competition, for me, having
19:36that logo actually meant more than anything.
19:39So, you know, I wouldn't charge for that because it wouldn't make sense and they wouldn't
19:42invite me, et cetera, right?
19:44So you also need to understand, like, why are you saying yes to things and why are you not
19:48saying no to something?
19:50Now, the way to judge, like, ROI, if I need to just kind of, you know, like, put a really
19:57fast way to look at it.
19:59So if I'm going to speak in front of a company that the CEO runs, I don't know, they're running
20:05a billion-dollar company, let's just make it for this, you know, simplicity.
20:09And if I can move their sales team by even just 1%, just one minuscule percent, right?
20:17That, that's for me, again, it depends how you measure it, but let's assume that they're
20:21doing a hundred million, you know, a year and maybe they're doing like a million.
20:26So that 1% is a million dollars.
20:29So I'm not asking you to charge a million dollars, but is that worth 10, 15, 20K?
20:35I mean, it becomes a no-brainer.
20:37But you're saying, right, you're saying that if, if I can identify that doing this with
20:42me has yielded a million dollars, then it, it's a, it's an easy case to make that you
20:49should pay me a significant.
20:51Yeah.
20:52All you need to do is get their sales team a little more motivated.
20:54But what if there isn't that specific?
20:56I, like, um, I am just making something up.
21:01I, uh, paint people's nails.
21:04I paint people's nails and it's, it's great.
21:07I am so talented at painting people's nails and people come in and they walk out with
21:12something that is sparkly and amazing.
21:13And they get to show their friends.
21:14Okay.
21:15How on earth do I price that?
21:16I can understand what to think about the internal and the external value.
21:20I can understand how I could like show them and I can make it, but they're not going to
21:23have a dollar amount the way that a sales team increasing by 1% is going to yield a million
21:29more dollars.
21:29So what is the stated ROI there?
21:32How do I start to talk to them about the value such that I can put a high price point
21:36on a
21:36service like that?
21:37Right.
21:37And again, I don't know if like in, in a nails case, I will go a lot higher than a
21:43hundred,
21:43200, whatever.
21:44Right.
21:44Like, I mean, I think at some point you also need to understand like where, where the market
21:48tells you to go.
21:50Right.
21:50Um, but in the case of nails, I can tell you at least for my daughter, like I don't do
21:54my nails, but my daughter is fanatic about it and it gives her confidence.
21:58It gives her clout.
22:01It gives her, you know, ability to be, you know, with friends.
22:04And for her, even though she doesn't have almost any money, she will go across like
22:11with buses to like, to this like nail salon and she will spend a hundred dollars to get
22:17her nails done.
22:17Now I can't understand it for the life of me, Jason, but this is real.
22:21Uh, do you recommend experimenting with price just to see where the market is?
22:25Uh, my greatest example with this, aside from speaking where I've, you know, given out
22:32different prices and seeing what happens is that I'm on this service called intro where
22:38people can book my time for 15 or 30 minute calls for whatever it's worth.
22:42It's intro.co slash Jason Pfeiffer.
22:44And I have played around with the pricing on that, just trying to figure out if I raise
22:50the price, do the bookings drop?
22:53Do they drop to zero?
22:54If I draw, if I lower the price, do I get more bookings than I would like?
22:59And I've kind of landed at $500 for 30 minutes of my time.
23:02And that like seems to like bookings come in, but not too many bookings.
23:06And so that seems to be good.
23:07And it's like an interesting testing of the market, but I never knew if there was another
23:11way to do that or if it's really just about like blindly.
23:14I mean, it literally feels like I'm just blind and I'm in a room and I'm just like touching
23:20the walls to feel where the boundaries are.
23:22And I'm not sure if there's a smarter way to do something like this.
23:25Um, so there is experimentation with price a little bit.
23:28Um, the only thing that I'll say, and there's also a difference between if it's something a
23:33little more static, like intro, right?
23:35Whoever comes in, comes in and then it's worth playing a little bit, um, with the pricing
23:39versus if you're having a verbal conversation with clients.
23:44The reason why I'm, I don't like actually having different price points is because I
23:50think you become very weak, you know, in the sales process.
23:54If I quote $25,000 for something, but I know deep in my heart that I will accept $15,000,
24:00then I will let people talk me down.
24:03But what you're saying is do not be afraid of saying the high price and then having people
24:10balk at it.
24:11If you know exactly how to make the case and bring your value up to the point where they
24:17actually will buy.
24:18And you're saying that will happen.
24:20People who are afraid of a high price point will actually buy if you just make the case
24:25better enough.
24:25Oh, absolutely.
24:27I mean, again, because again, you know, the value of the results that you are going to
24:32deliver.
24:33And if we have time, I'll talk a little bit about like, how do you look at pricing an
24:37hour for yourself a little bit?
24:39Um, but yeah, a lot of actually, that's a great place to land on.
24:42So yeah, let's talk about hourly because a lot of what we've been talking about here is
24:47just a package deal service, right?
24:50I, my, my keynotes are, you pay me the thing and I give you the thing, but there's also
24:55ongoing offerings.
24:57There's a lot of different ways to price yourself.
24:58So how do you start thinking about that hourly?
25:01Yeah.
25:01I mean, again, I love getting away from hourly.
25:04Like I'll start with that, right?
25:05I much prefer to price it based on ROI, et cetera.
25:09Um, but I want you, first of all, as the listener, right, to know what their hourly price
25:15is, what I mean by the, so if you're, for example, um, you know, heading towards, I don't
25:21know, whatever, a half a million dollar, whatever, you know, like salary, whatever I'm, I'm exaggerating
25:27on purpose.
25:27Like I'm trying to put some number that will be easier for us to calculate.
25:31Sounds like a great time.
25:32Yeah.
25:33Right.
25:34But, but if you think about it, like every hour is worth about two 50 ish, right?
25:40Two $50.
25:41So the only thing that you need, and, and, and again, you should, you know, wherever you
25:46are in the pricing model, you want to start putting yourself towards the upper scale.
25:51Like what am I building myself for?
25:53Right.
25:53Every hour I should be working towards the two 50, the 300, the 500, whatever it is that
25:59you are, or if you're building a business, maybe it's a million, maybe it's two million,
26:02whatever it is.
26:03Right.
26:03So the question is now, what is a pricing of a, an hour for you?
26:08So if it is two 50, just to make it easy, now you basically say, okay, so every task
26:14that I'm doing that is not worth the two 50, I should probably start looking at how do I
26:20delegate it?
26:21Because I should be focused on the things that will make me the half a million dollars,
26:26right?
26:26Like how do I get there faster?
26:28So every, all the other things are noise in the system.
26:32The way I like to look at it is I like the acronyms bread.
26:36So one is batch, like you batch as much as the things together, right?
26:41Then you reduce.
26:43There's a lot of things that you're doing that you probably should not be doing.
26:47Eliminate, get rid of them.
26:49Like if you're doing your own social media, if you're doing your own likes or whatever,
26:53that's probably something that you should start, you know, like getting rid of, automate
26:58and then delegate, right?
26:59And there's going to be some form that you're going to look at and you're going to say,
27:04okay, if this is not at the two 50 mark and not even close, what are the things that sometimes
27:09it's okay to do the things that don't scale.
27:11That's how you learn.
27:12That's how you, you can hire better.
27:15It's okay.
27:15And by the way, as CEO, you're going to always roll up your sleeves and dive into some of
27:19these things, but you also need to be very sure of what you say yes to what you say
27:24no to.
27:25And then what is the hourly that makes sense?
27:27So if somebody offers, you know, like a $500, maybe it does make sense, right?
27:33But on the other hand, like I need to understand that if it's not, if I need to prepare now
27:37for hours before that call, then maybe it doesn't make sense anymore.
27:42And I need to say no because it's noise in my system.
27:45So I think this is how it really helped me because I think we tend to also be the nice
27:51people that always say yes to things and we say yes to the board seats and the advisory
27:56and the consulting and doing people favors, et cetera.
27:59And when you start understanding the number and saying, okay, is there a reason to say
28:05yes to this?
28:06Now, I will say yes to my kid's dinner, right?
28:09Or dinner with my kids like that.
28:10There is no price tag on it.
28:12It's okay to say yes to things that are not with value, but at least you start understanding
28:17what am I saying yes to?
28:18And what am I saying no to?
28:20And you start being intentional and strategic.
28:22I hope this helps.
28:23It's so useful.
28:24Ilana, this is so great.
28:26Your podcast, which I was on, is called like your company, Leap Academy.
28:31What else do you want people to know?
28:32How can they get in touch?
28:33Yeah.
28:34I mean, we love helping people, first of all.
28:36And there's a ton, a ton, a ton of free stuff that we do, by the way.
28:40So because we are on a mission to change 100 million lives because a lot of people need to
28:45reinvent themselves right now.
28:47So reach out, leapacademy.com.
28:49We also have free trainings.
28:51We have free challenges.
28:52So reach out and that's it.
28:55Let's create a bigger tomorrow for everybody.
28:58Amazing.
28:58A bigger tomorrow in which everyone gets paid exactly what they are worth.
29:02Ilana Golan, thank you so much for being on Problem Solvers.
29:05Thank you, Jason.
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